View Full Version : Which Member of the Bat family drew the short straw Post BFTC?
Karl O'Neill
06-10-2009, 10:22 AM
I think Tim drake.
Don;t get me wrong. I will try out Yost's Red robin title but personally I think Tim should have graduated to a higher role.
He is worth more than the RED ROBIN role IMHO.
Dick is a potential dark and gritty batman.
Thoughts?
WorstThingUS
06-10-2009, 10:28 AM
I think Tim drake.
Don;t get me wrong. I will try out Yost's Red robin title but personally I think Tim should have graduated to a higher role.
He is worth more than the RED ROBIN role IMHO.
Dick is a potential dark and gritty batman.
Thoughts?
I'd agreed, Tim. But also The Birds of Prey. Taking them out of Gotham was a huge mistake and they should be reunited here, not spread out over books.
janthonyh
06-10-2009, 10:30 AM
The Huntress definitly drew the short end. It seems like everyone is featured somewhere except her...:confused:
B. Kuwanger
06-10-2009, 10:32 AM
I have respect for Yost and Bachs both, but yeah, Tim seems to lose here. For all that's said and done, he's the star of Not Robin.
FemGeek
06-10-2009, 10:32 AM
Batgirl. They're friggin replacing her for no good reason, least the rest of her family have new, definate roles.
Karl O'Neill
06-10-2009, 10:32 AM
The Huntress definitly drew the short end. It seems like everyone is featured somewhere except her...:confused:
She will get her due. IIRC did she not get a mini series recently by irovry madison?
Alexx1
06-10-2009, 10:34 AM
The Huntress definitly drew the short end. It seems like everyone is featured somewhere except her...:confused:
Yep. I agree with this. Here's a character that you could follow month in and month out for over what 50 some issue and now you "might" see her here and there according to Marts.This sucks.
But I also agree with WorsThingsUs, BOP loses out. It really made no sense to cancel the book. They should have relocated them back to Gotham and let Tony Bedard contiue to write them and give him a better artist. Or give the book back to Gail Simone.
Alexx1
06-10-2009, 10:35 AM
She will get her due. IIRC did she not get a mini series recently by irovry madison?
Your questions was post BFTC, so I'd like to know how she's getting her due.
FemGeek
06-10-2009, 10:37 AM
I also agree on the points about Huntress and BoP. Hunts, who's been developed real well as a character these last few years, is being shoved to the back of the crowd, relegated to the 'at large' status. And BoP was cancelled for no real reason. At the end of BftC they could have moved them back to Gotham and gotten back to basics. Ugh, the ladies of Gotham aren't having a good year.
Karl O'Neill
06-10-2009, 10:39 AM
Your questions was post BFTC, so I'd like to know how she's getting her due.
Maybe she will turn up in streets of Gotham as a supporting character?
TheDreamKing
06-10-2009, 10:42 AM
Seeing the poor treatment he recived during BFTC, I'd say Jason Todd, with Cassandra right besides him.
Alexx1
06-10-2009, 10:43 AM
Maybe she will turn up in streets of Gotham as a supporting character?
At best it seems like she'll be a supporting player in Manhunter's co-feature but that;s still heavily about Manhunter and what the co-feature is like 10, 11 pages so how many pages do you really think Huntress will get. And I'm sure she won't be in every issue. Again, Helena got the short end of the stick :(
Karl O'Neill
06-10-2009, 10:47 AM
Tim did.
He is re-donning the silly costume that that fxxker Todd threw in the garbage heap.
Alexx1
06-10-2009, 10:50 AM
I think Huntress deserved a co-feature or at least to have a feature in the new Wednesday Comics as oppose to be reduced to an at large player but nope, nothing.
janthonyh
06-10-2009, 10:52 AM
At least Tim has a series, though.
Alexx1
06-10-2009, 10:56 AM
At least Tim has a series, though.
With a good writer at that!
carabas
06-10-2009, 10:57 AM
Well, obviously there is Bruce Wayne.
Oh, and Barbara Gordon came out of it as a nitwit who strands teenager girls in the middle of swamps, miles away from anywhere, with supervillain on the prowl.
The Cool Thatguy
06-10-2009, 11:01 AM
Well, obviously there is Bruce Wayne.
Oh, and Barbara Gordon came out of it as a nitwit who strands teenager girls in the middle of swamps, miles away from anywhere, with supervillain on the prowl.
Seriously, what the hell was that? The morality chain there is as simple as two plus two and still the writer went ahead with it.
Kylun123
06-10-2009, 11:03 AM
Haven't read all of BFTC, but what would you guys think if Tim & Dick wound up sharing the mantle?
Gotham is a big enough city for 2 Batmen running around.
Would it have been a discredit to either character, to suggest that either one of them isn't up to the task?
What would the criminals think if Batman was literally in 2 places at once?
dreyga2000
06-10-2009, 11:41 AM
Haven't read all of BFTC, but what would you guys think if Tim & Dick wound up sharing the mantle?
Gotham is a big enough city for 2 Batmen running around.
Would it have been a discredit to either character, to suggest that either one of them isn't up to the task?
What would the criminals think if Batman was literally in 2 places at once?
Well, one of tem would have been the main Batman and the other would be Batman-Lite-Lite
Choppa
06-10-2009, 11:44 AM
Defenitly Dick. He will be Batman, but we all know that won't last, so what will happen then? He will go back to being Nightwing? Seems pointless to even have him in the role in the first place.
I hate to disagree with anyone but I know a lot of fans think that some characters like Tim or even Jason got short changed in BFTC but I believe the writers used them as far as they could with the story they had. In retrospect the 3 part story was really all about Dick and him excepting his destiney as Batman.
Defenitly Dick. He will be Batman, but we all know that won't last, so what will happen then? He will go back to being Nightwing? Seems pointless to even have him in the role in the first place.
You really think it won't last? I think Dick will be batman far longer then people expect. Even if Bruce is still alive he won't go back to the cowl. Atleast that's what I think.
marvelprince
06-10-2009, 12:30 PM
You really think it won't last? I think Dick will be batman far longer then people expect. Even if Bruce is still alive he won't go back to the cowl. Atleast that's what I think.
As much as I hope your right, i just can't see it happening. The writers aren't even trying to hide that Bruce will be back soon enough. I really hope I'm wrong though cause I want to see Dick as Batman for a long time.
To answer the original question though, Huntress got screwed over the most. Tim not only got an upgrade, with a shift in focus to match, he had a new series with a good writer (as was already pointed out). Cassie may be out as Batgirl, but her and Barbara are slated to at least appear in the Batgirl series. Manhunter has a cofeature, Black Canary is with Green Arrow, Question has a co-feature. Even Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn are being prominently in books. Freakin Batman Jones had more to say than Helena in Battle for the Cowl. Make no mistake, she got screwed here.
With a good writer at that!
Chris Yost is a phenomenal writer. He writes women very, very well (see his stuff on X-23 & Storm). He would do a great job writing Huntress.
Alexx1
06-10-2009, 01:12 PM
Chris Yost is a phenomenal writer. He writes women very, very well (see his stuff on X-23 & Storm). He would do a great job writing Huntress.
He would kick ass writing Huntress. Wouldn't it be awesome if he wrote some Helena in Red Robin? Seriously, Tim and Helena are one of the best under devleoped relationships in comics. Their sisterly/brotherly chemistry is crazy and it's too bad it hasn't been developed more. But these two are great when they are together. It's natural and effortless and they genuinely seem to like the other. I've always digged how protective Tim has been towards Helena and how he's always managed to be on her side. I've always thought Tim was like the brother Huntress didn't have and she probably saw a lot of her brother, Pino, in him. Anyway it would be awesome. I wonder if Chris even knows about the Robin/Huntress dynamic? If you got the inside connection to him, let him know Mia!!
But yeah Yost would so write an awesome Huntress. Heck he should even do a Huntress co-feature in Red Robin! It blows my mind DC didn't give her a co-feature.
Captain Jim
06-10-2009, 08:19 PM
Probably Huntress at the moment, with Cassandra being a big unknown.
Choppa
06-10-2009, 08:58 PM
You really think it won't last? I think Dick will be batman far longer then people expect. Even if Bruce is still alive he won't go back to the cowl. Atleast that's what I think.
What do you mean "even if"? Bruce is still alive. And why on Earth would he come back and not reclaim the mantle?? Why would he take on a new identity?
Spiffy
06-10-2009, 09:35 PM
Tim of course.
Although that pattern could be repeated with Cass. We don't know yet.
Huntress gets an honorable mention, mostly for being portrayed as a real beyotch, for no good reason.
pgonzo98
06-11-2009, 01:32 AM
i think death is a pretty short straw so my vote is jason.
nepenthes
06-11-2009, 02:09 AM
i think death is a pretty short straw so my vote is jason.
you're mistaken if you think Jason is dead....
Huntress drew the short straw. She's lost her place for the foreseeble future and Nicieza kinda backhanded her in BotC The Network.
I think Tim drake
Definitely disagree. Tim has graduated beyond Robin status and landed himself a pretty sweet new title by Yost and Bachs. Issue 1 is impressive...if it's anything to go by the series will be fairly decent. Tim will also be remembered as the one who didn't give up on Batmans survival, and will likely play a role in rescuing him too. Long straw for Tim Drake. I don't view this as casting him aside at all, it's actually status upgrade
Tim did.
He is re-donning the silly costume that that fxxker Todd threw in the garbage heap.
but there's a reason for that. He's gonna be doing work "that crosses the line" so he deliberatly picked a costume that has a tarnished reputation.
Alexx1
06-11-2009, 08:07 AM
I think Tim got the best end of the deal here. He got a terrific writer in Yost! I don't see how anyone could say he got the short end of the stick. He's got his own book where he'll be featured month in and month out and fans will get to follow his journey. He seems like he's really coming into his own. I really like RR #1. I think it will be a sleeper hit! I agree with nepenthes, Tim got an upgrade.
Lemurion
06-11-2009, 12:08 PM
I think Tim came out pretty well, especially considering that giving the mantle to anyone but Dick would have shafted Dick so badly that there really wasn't another option.
Also, while I think Tim could have been a good "grim-n-gritty" Batman, that would not have been enough of a change to really make it worth replacing Bruce.
Scott Taylor
06-11-2009, 12:58 PM
Huntress. But thats fine by me, she is just a character that is begging to be ignored most of the time.
beetlebum
06-11-2009, 01:32 PM
I also agree on the points about Huntress and BoP. Hunts, who's been developed real well as a character these last few years, is being shoved to the back of the crowd, relegated to the 'at large' status. And BoP was cancelled for no real reason. At the end of BftC they could have moved them back to Gotham and gotten back to basics. Ugh, the ladies of Gotham aren't having a good year.
What this person said.
Huntress gets an honorable mention, mostly for being portrayed as a real beyotch, for no good reason.
Although the description makes me cringe a bit, I do agree that there was a character regression in BFTC: The Network.
If there was any ancillary relief from it, it's that it proves that Helena is still in need of growth, and someone to aid her with it. I wish DC would give Helena a proper writer who could help foster that growth.
ScottyQuick
06-11-2009, 07:39 PM
With a good writer at that!
I'll disagree with that. I liked his X-23 mini and SI:YA/R, but his run on New X-Men was pretty brutal.
Rev. Calibos
06-11-2009, 08:00 PM
I think Tim drake.
Don;t get me wrong. I will try out Yost's Red robin title but personally I think Tim should have graduated to a higher role.
He is worth more than the RED ROBIN role IMHO.
Dick is a potential dark and gritty batman.
Thoughts?
Tim drew the short straw imho but we readers won out as Red Robin had just an excellent start.
He was a better Robin than Grayson imho but instead of striking out on his own and growing into a hero in his own right like Grayson did as Nightwing he was sort of <shove> pushed out. Well, maybe not pushed out per se.....Dick wanted him to stick around but the circumstances just didn't line up for that.
I would have preferred to see him continue as Robin. Instead of a Batman and Robin team that was a Mentor/Pupil relationshop we could have seen a dynamic that was more of a partnership as Dick sees Tim almost as an equal.
But the way it's played out Tim will be able to strike out as his own as Red Robin and have that chance to grow as a character outside of Batman's considerable shadow.
I think they would have been better off coming up with a 'new' character name for Tim Drake instead of just using the Red Robin name that has so much baggage.
They might as well made him a Green Lantern.
frostedone
06-11-2009, 10:30 PM
Cassandra Cain drew the short straw...
She might no longer be Batgirl and she did not even get a new miniseries...
I'll disagree with that. I liked his X-23 mini and SI:YA/R, but his run on New X-Men was pretty brutal.
I don't understand. You said that you liked his X-23 mini and SI:YA/R. But you're disagreeing that he's a good writer?
Although the description makes me cringe a bit, I do agree that there was a character regression in BFTC: The Network.
If there was any ancillary relief from it, it's that it proves that Helena is still in need of growth, and someone to aid her with it. .
I thought that she was a character regression ever since she was placed in BOP. Most of the time she was portrayed as an idiot who had to run to Oracle to be told what to do. To be frank my interest in the character has cooled somewhat (Supergirl and X-23 are far more interesting). The reason I said that she was short changed was due to her prominance as a character in Gotham City. It just does not make sense, story wise, for her to be missing from this plot. Especially given the fact that BOP has disbanded and it can not be used as an excuse for her not to be helping out.
I wish DC would give Helena a proper writer who could help foster that growth.
I would rather see Huntress grow on her own through a series of life lessons. Than some stupid stories where she needs guidance from some master teacher. She's too old and smart for that.
The thing I liked about what Rucka and Dixon did with the character is that while she certainly needed to grow. She did not need her hand held. She had issues and and a serious anger problem. But it wasn't as if she had s*** for brains. But whether or not DC see her as a viable character worth spending anytime on is anyone's guess. The mini did not sell well and unfortunately she's been left with a bit of a nasty reputation. So the company may well have given up on her and deciced to use her as a merely supporting cast member
.
another_version
06-12-2009, 10:04 AM
I think Barbra Gordon drew the short straw because she had to sit through all 3 issues of her own mini-series "The Cure". Haha, it wasn't that bad, but I thought I would bring that up.:biggrin:
AgPhoenix
06-12-2009, 11:34 AM
There are two big losers in this, depending on what happens in August.
Cassandra Cain and Barbra Gordon.
Cassandra deserves a better redemption than she has gotten so far (Hey Didio, can't you just retcon that League of Assassins Bullcrap?), and Barbra Gordon would get the worst demotion of all time if she's back to being Batgirl.
If not, then Huntress is the reigning Champion right now. Tim gets freaking Yost writing his book, he's not a loser in any stretch of the word.
heffison
06-12-2009, 03:39 PM
Tim and Dick.
Tim's been getting dragged down from being the lighter side of Batman for quite a while now, becoming so depressing he isn't much fun to read about anymore, and finally he's pushed out of Gotham so Damien can be featured.
Dick gave up being his own man to be Temp Batman, erasing one of the best episodes of change and growth in DC's history. With Batman #666 as our "premonition" of where things are likely to go, he probably isn't even going to survive this, much less get his own career back.
Meanwhile, Teen Titans and Titans are both missing something vital. They kind of got short-strawed with this as well.
ScottyQuick
06-13-2009, 01:11 PM
I don't understand. You said that you liked his X-23 mini and SI:YA/R. But you're disagreeing that he's a good writer?
Because his run on New X-Men was one of the worst comics I've read. Mind you, I haven't read THAT many, but it was awful. It was needlessly brutal and it was a bit like sitting down to watch B:TB&TB with your cousin only to have the scene where the fauxBat! in TDK is hung appear on screen.
Jorriss
06-13-2009, 01:31 PM
I think Barbra Gordon drew the short straw because she had to sit through all 3 issues of her own mini-series "The Cure". Haha, it wasn't that bad, but I thought I would bring that up.:biggrin:
Haha, well played.
Frisky Dingo
06-13-2009, 05:29 PM
A lot of people have already picked her, but I think Huntress definitely drew the shortest straw Post-BftC. She's not going to be appearing anywhere regularly and we don't even know for sure when and where we'll see her again. Jeez, toss her a co-feature at least DC.
tfresca
06-13-2009, 11:17 PM
How about Batgril. Seemed like she was going to lead the outsiders then DC switched plans to the current, and pointless, version we have now. Also the Titans got screwed because they lost Dick.
Frisky Dingo
06-13-2009, 11:22 PM
How about Batgril. Seemed like she was going to lead the outsiders then DC switched plans to the current, and pointless, version we have now. Also the Titans got screwed because they lost Dick.
Batgirl has been getting screwed over for awhile now, that's nothing new.
joemagnum611
06-14-2009, 12:50 AM
I think Tim got the best end of the deal here. He got a terrific writer in Yost! I don't see how anyone could say he got the short end of the stick. He's got his own book where he'll be featured month in and month out and fans will get to follow his journey. He seems like he's really coming into his own. I really like RR #1. I think it will be a sleeper hit! I agree with nepenthes, Tim got an upgrade.
If you call getting the identity of an alternate reality sidekick that never got to wear it. To a crazy former sidekick turned villain and pushed aside by his "brother" for the psycho could be son of Bruce Wayne an upgrade then I guess you're right. Tim was already coming into his own. He never wanted to be Batman and had turned Robin to his own hero. So he deff got screwed but I love Yost's writing so I'll continue reading
If you ask me Cassandra got screwed. She wasn't even in BFTC and she's being replaced as Batgirl
nepenthes
06-14-2009, 02:43 AM
Dick gave up being his own man to be Temp Batman, erasing one of the best episodes of change and growth in DC's history. With Batman #666 as our "premonition" of where things are likely to go, he probably isn't even going to survive this, much less get his own career back.
too bad it's hardly been "erased". all of that still happened and counts for alot.
replacing Batman is implicit in the entire concept of Robin and Dick Grayson himself. any story about the question of a dead Batman would always have to address Graysons responsibility. and the question has been raised. what would you rather someone else was Batman?
dreyga2000
06-14-2009, 03:13 AM
Well... Tim was just 16 issues short of breaking the 200th issue mark... I say he got screwed over pretty bad....
This time next year would have been reviewing the double-sized 200th issue of Robin.... It's really a shame...
heffison
06-16-2009, 04:37 PM
Originally Posted by heffison
Dick gave up being his own man to be Temp Batman, erasing one of the best episodes of change and growth in DC's history. With Batman #666 as our "premonition" of where things are likely to go, he probably isn't even going to survive this, much less get his own career back.
too bad it's hardly been "erased". all of that still happened and counts for alot.
replacing Batman is implicit in the entire concept of Robin and Dick Grayson himself. any story about the question of a dead Batman would always have to address Graysons responsibility. and the question has been raised. what would you rather someone else was Batman?
Maybe "erased" wasn't the right word. I didn't mean erased as in retconned out of having ever happened, but that he backslid from the progress he had made. Gave up the career and moved back into his parents' house, in a sense.
I would rather he either have put his foot down and said "No new Batman!" or that he appointed someone. Not Tim, though. Heck, we could have had a period where several different serious candidates got try out the cowl for a while.
Part of Dick Grayson's strength was his ability to break away from the Bat to a degree. To me, seeing him (or the writers) give that up makes him look weaker than he should.
Lemurion
06-16-2009, 05:13 PM
Dick Grayson has always been positioned as Bruce Wayne's successor. It's been intrinsic to the character since 1940. Besides, if B&R issue 1 is any example, he's doing fine: he's headlining three monthly titles plus at least two minis.
Tim isn't doing as well - but Red Robin was the best available option for him. He's really getting too old to be Robin. Besides, he's got a pretty solid book. I also think while he could possibly have taken the cowl he is too similar to Bruce, so there wouldn't have been the same feeling of change.
Damian makes the perfect Robin to Dick Grayson's Batman. He's in the right age range, and being Robin would benefit him more than it would anyone else. There's also the personality conflict - Damian works better as a Robin for Dick than he would as Robin to Tim or Bruce. Yes he and Tim don't get along at all, but their characters are more similar and so we wouldn't see the same dynamic.
For the moment I'm going to say Cass - she had a minor role in BtfC and I don't think she'll be the new Batgirl.
Avenger08
06-16-2009, 06:01 PM
im gonna have to go with tim drake.
I mean it was like "sorry, guess your not good enough to be batman. Were going to let the guy who didnt want to be take the job instead. is that cool. Here, hows bout we make this up to you, you can have a series instead of the title, that good with you? hope so, because you have no choice.
Nice effort tho, but you just cannot handle it, and that costume, yeck!"
Kid Kamikaze10
06-16-2009, 06:09 PM
Would it be wrong for me to say that just about every female in the Bat-family drew short straws?
carabas
06-17-2009, 01:23 AM
Originally Posted by heffison
Dick gave up being his own man to be Temp Batman, erasing one of the best episodes of change and growth in DC's history. With Batman #666 as our "premonition" of where things are likely to go, he probably isn't even going to survive this, much less get his own career back..I don't think filling in for your 'father' for a bit while he gets well in any way imaginable counts as giving up being your own man.
Maybe "erased" wasn't the right word. I didn't mean erased as in retconned out of having ever happened, but that he backslid from the progress he had made. Gave up the career and moved back into his parents' house, in a sense.I simply don't see it this way. I see it as moving past his adolescent phase and shouldering the responsabilities and duties of an adult.
It is well established that Gothal City needs Batman, and I don't think there's anyon mor qualified.
Part of Dick Grayson's strength was his ability to break away from the Bat to a degree. To me, seeing him (or the writers) give that up makes him look weaker than he should.
I've never seen it this way. His real strength is being able to live in Batman's world without letting all the darkness get to him.
carabas
06-17-2009, 01:25 AM
Originally Posted by heffison
Dick gave up being his own man to be Temp Batman, erasing one of the best episodes of change and growth in DC's history. With Batman #666 as our "premonition" of where things are likely to go, he probably isn't even going to survive this, much less get his own career back..I don't think filling in for your 'father' for a bit while he gets well in any way imaginable counts as giving up being your own man.
Maybe "erased" wasn't the right word. I didn't mean erased as in retconned out of having ever happened, but that he backslid from the progress he had made. Gave up the career and moved back into his parents' house, in a sense.I simply don't see it this way. I see it as moving past his adolescent phase and shouldering the responsabilities and duties of an adult.
It is well established that Gothal City needs Batman, and I don't think there's anyon mor qualified.
Part of Dick Grayson's strength was his ability to break away from the Bat to a degree. To me, seeing him (or the writers) give that up makes him look weaker than he should.
I've never seen it this way. His real strength is being able to live in Batman's world without letting all the darkness get to him.
heffison
06-17-2009, 12:56 PM
Would it be wrong for me to say that just about every female in the Bat-family drew short straws?
Except for Batwoman. She won the BftC bigtime, in finally getting a chance to be a real part of the Batbooks. Now she gets all the opportunity, and pressure, of starring in a major title.
Only time will tell if the character is up to it.
Because his run on New X-Men was one of the worst comics I've read. Mind you, I haven't read THAT many, but it was awful. It was needlessly brutal and it was a bit like sitting down to watch B:TB&TB with your cousin only to have the scene where the fauxBat! in TDK is hung appear on screen.
There's a big diffference in saying that you did like a writers run on a particular book and disagreeing that they are a good writer. To say that you disagree that they are good writer implies that none of what they write is good. However you admitted that you liked X-23 mini and SI:YA/R. So I just don't understand if you think if he is a good writer or not.
Red Lotus
06-17-2009, 05:30 PM
The only way Dick Grayson can draw the short straw is if he is killed off at the end of this. If not then he could gain a whole new rogues gallery from this for what ever ongoing he gets once this is over.
Lorendiac
06-17-2009, 05:43 PM
Well, obviously there is Bruce Wayne.
That was my first reaction when I noticed this thread title a minute ago! I guess this is a case of "great minds think alike"? :smile:
Cassandra Cain drew the short straw...
She might no longer be Batgirl and she did not even get a new miniseries...
I'm pretty sure she's not going to be the star of the new Batgirl series . . . but two things about that:
1. I could be wrong.
2. The way DC has been treating her for the last 3 years, taking a vacation while writers and editors have to use other characters as their punching bags may be a very lucky break for her! There are much worse things than "disappearing offstage for a year or two!" :biggrin:
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