Red Robin #1 (spoilers)

[marvelprince]

Wasn't aware this was coming out this week. Pretty cool preview

http://comics.ign.com/articles/992/992749p1.html

[BloodOps]

Thanks for the link, can't wait for the issue. Interesting how Tim is going to go with all this.

[Frisky Dingo]

Definitely looking forward to this book, seems like it's going to offer up something a little different from the rest of the Bat-books.

[dreyga2000]

I hope this finally puts to bed any doubt Tim is Red Robin....

At first I was keen to this idea... But now I'm sold....

[Mundungus]

I like that Tim is more Batman-like than Dick. He seems to excel with the tactical and deductive aspects of the job. Not that Dick is bad at it, but Tim thrives on it more readily.

I like Christopher Yost's stuff so I am interested in this. I might pick this up just to understand why Tim decided to adopt the Red Robin identity. Its recent usage between Countdown and the Robin series makes it seem like an odd choice for Tim to want to take on while he travels the world. Maybe not. I guess I'll read to find out.

It also seems like they're trying to make Tim seem much older than he is. Isn't he still between 15 and 17?

But yeah. I think I'll give the first issue a shot.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

It also seems like they're trying to make Tim seem much older than he is. Isn't he still between 15 and 17?

I don't think they are, I am pretty sure Tim should be 18 now, or maybe 17.

He had turned 16 before the One Year Later event, was 13 when he became Robin and has recently said that he has been Robin for 5 years, so all things considered, he should be 17 (if he were rounding up to 5 years) at the youngest, and 18 at the oldest.

[Spiffy]

Does the Red Red Robin go bob bob bobbin along... or what?
It also seems like they're trying to make Tim seem much older than he is.
You mean much like how Dick now seems magically taller?

[AiyokuSama]

I don't think they are, I am pretty sure Tim should be 18 now, or maybe 17.

He's 17 right now, unless there is a time jump I'm missing.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

He's 17 right now, unless there is a time jump I'm missing.

When have they said that on panel recently? He was 16 some time before the One Year Later leap, and there was an indeterminate amount of time between the return from One Year Later and RIP, plus another 6 months between RIP and the end of Battle for the Cowl. I don't think that he couldn't be 17, but he'd have to at least be approaching 18.

[Mundungus]

I think my mind is judging his age by his height. Tim has always seemed short to me, even in recent years. He must have hit a growth spurt between One Year Later and BFTC.

If Tim is 17 (maybe 18) then I would like to see his youth play a factor in this story. He's a globe-trotting teenager, essentially, and I would think he would meet with some limitations in his travels due to his age.

And, depending on how all these disparate post-BFTC books go, if Tim never picks up the Robin costume again during his publication then I wonder what will happen with the eventual rejuvenation of the Teen Titans franchise when they'll be looking for a Robin. Seeing Damien interact with the other Teen Titans would be hilarious.

[Frisky Dingo]

I would put Tim somewhere between 17 and 18, that make sense to me. And either way it's not that big of a difference in age. However, what's throwing me off in the preview isn't the height (since we don't really see him standing up right next to anyone) but how much he appears to have bulked up. Hopefully we'll get some flashbacks up him working out like crazy after BfTC to have that make sense.

In terms of him taking on the Red Robin persona, I guess from DC's point of view it makes sense since it was already established and is part of popular DC lore from Kingdom Come. But I really would have liked to seen Tim create an entirely new persona to strike out on his own (a la Nightwing). Still can't wait for this series though!

[Mac]

Ah, glad Tim's still going in the bitter, grittier direction Fabian put him going towards in the last few issues of Robin.

"I'm sure as hell not Robin."

I lol'd, but at the same time- I'm already loving Yost's writing.

[Mundungus]

Maybe when Red Robin is all said and done Tim will adopt his own superhero identity. He seems to have outgrown Robin so I don't see him going back to that. And Red Robin seems like filler to me.

[AiyokuSama]

When have they said that on panel recently?

Define "recently."

Going by events, that's where he's at. he had his 16th before that year long jaunt around the world with Dick and Bruce, ergo.....he's 17.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Define "recently."

Going by events, that's where he's at. he had his 16th before that year long jaunt around the world with Dick and Bruce, ergo.....he's 17.

There were three years real time between Tim's 16th birthday and the skip forward One Year Later event. There were another two years real time between the One Year Later skip and RIP. There is a six month gap between the RIP story and the current status quo (new Batman and Robin team). That would mean that there is some indeterminate time more than 1 and a half years between Tim's 16th birthday and the present. This would mean he is at least 17, but even without further specifics it does not require an additional leap forward to place him at 18.

[Frisky Dingo]

Maybe when Red Robin is all said and done Tim will adopt his own superhero identity. He seems to have outgrown Robin so I don't see him going back to that. And Red Robin seems like filler to me.

Yeah, I hope you're right. Red Robin should be the stepping stone to his final superhero identity. Because like you said I don't see him going back to being Robin but Red Robin doesn't seem distinct enough. In terms of the persona, not the book itself.

[AiyokuSama]

There were three years real time between Tim's 16th birthday and the skip forward One Year Later event.

What does real time have to do with anything? the only thing that matters when figuring out character ages is comic time.

And according to comic time, there has only been 18, maybe 20 months since Tim's 16th birthday.

[agentofthebat]

i cant wait for Red Robin. I cant wait to pick it up!

[RonnieThunderbolts]

What does real time have to do with anything? the only thing that matters when figuring out character ages is comic time.

Real time indicates that stories have occurred over the passage of time, while not specific, time has not stood still between Tim's birthday and One Year Later, and between One Year Later and RIP.

And according to comic time, there has only been 18, maybe 20 months since Tim's 16th birthday.

That is an assumption, I have provided reasons why I disagree. 18 months would mean that no time at all had passed in between Robin 116 (his birthday) and 147 (the last issue before One Year Later) and that no time had passed between the return from One Year Later and today, since it accounts only for skips forward (One Year Later and six months between RIP and the DCU 'present' add to 18 months alone). All we know is that it has been over 18 months, not "18, maybe 20" because nothing in the comics has stated or even implied that there has only been a maximum of 2 months total that these stories between the gaps in time have taken place.

[shinjiro15]

i know back in the 90's the math was 3 or 4 years equalled one comic book year. now of coruse that math can be all screwed up due to all the time warps and evetns....

i also hope that red robin is a filler. i'd like to see tim ina totally new identity before he eventually becomes batman.

[AiyokuSama]

Real time indicates that stories have occurred over the passage of time, while not specific, time has not stood still between Tim's birthday and One Year Later, and between One Year Later and RIP.

Obviously. I already pointed that out. However, the amount of real time is utterly irrelevant. Otherwise Bruce would be in 90s.

That is an assumption

No, it's a compilation of the numbers given.

All we know is that it has been over 18 months

No, actually we don't. The problem with comic time it's NOT liner. if it was, the boys we be a LOT older just by the number of times they've spent xmas morning together. There is an element of suspension of disbelief involved with comic time. As such even going by what is written is a best guess.

And until someone says he's 18, I'm going to keep thinking he's seventeen because that's what it adds up to given the numbers previously printed.

[Jorriss]

Wow, given no backstory, I would not think that is Tim, Tim doesn't talk quite that Batlike, he's not that buff, it's not his fighting style, and he doesn't look so pissed off generally.

[AiyokuSama]

and he doesn't look so pissed off generally.

He did in the Search for a Hero arc. In fact there are a few lines that tie directly back to that.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Obviously. I already pointed that out. However, the amount of real time is utterly irrelevant. Otherwise Bruce would be in 90s.

No, it is not irrelevant, it is inconclusive. There are 3 years worth of Robin appearances in various titles took place and that Tim had a lot of significant things happen in his life during this time, including the death of his girlfriend, and his father, and the institutionalization of his step mother, and a time training and working with a superhuman military group.

I am not saying that Tim IS 18, I'm not suggesting it is the only possible conclusion. I am saying that clearly some time has passed between his 16th birthday and the issue before the One Year Later jump forward.

The same is true of Tim's time between the One Year Later jump forward and the beginning of RIP. Tim passed between those two points, Stephanie was revealed to be alive, Tim met Damian, fought Cassandra and she worked with the Outsiders. I do not know how much time, because it hasn't been said in a time line or in discussion in the comics. There is


No, it's a compilation of the numbers given.

No, it isn't. You say 18-20 months, that is arbitrary. 18 months is the confirmed passage of time from issue prior to the One Year Later jump to the present, not between Tim's 16th birthday and the present. There is nothing to suggest much less confirm that only two months could have passed in total in all the stories between Robin 116 and 147. An unknown amount of time has taken place outside of a confirmed 18 months.

No, actually we don't. The problem with comic time it's NOT liner. if it was, the boys we be a LOT older just by the number of times they've spent xmas morning together. There is an element of suspension of disbelief involved with comic time. As such even going by what is written is a best guess.

We know in the same way we know there was a year gap in One Year Later, and the flash forward to Dick and Damian on the first page of the first issue of Batman RIP says "six months earlier" on the next page.. I'm not saying there is no suspension of disbelief, if they say Tim is 16, he's 16 again, it is a comic book with a varied and malleable continuity.

And until someone says he's 18, I'm going to keep thinking he's seventeen because that's what it adds up to given the numbers previously printed.

As I said in my first post in this thread:
"he should be 17"

[AiyokuSama]

You say 18-20 months, that is arbitrary.

No, that's my recognizing the SAME thing you pointed out above, the unknown amount of time between his birthday and his leaving on the boat with Bruce and Dick. All we know for sure is that it wasn't a full year. I don't think it was more then a few months based on the apparent seasons. Tim's birthday is in July, it was seemingly fall when the boat shipped out.

if they say Tim is 16

Who said he was?

[dumbstruck]

In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter whether or not Tim is supposed to be 17 or 18?

[CocktailXYZ]

On that note, what is the legal drinking age in Gotham?

[Jorriss]

He did in the Search for a Hero arc. In fact there are a few lines that tie directly back to that.
A different kind of pissed, but you're right none-the-less.

[Will.S]

I was fearing that artists would portray Tim as taller and bulkier in the Red Robin costume.

I'm not really a fan of Ramon Bachs art on the whole so the art side of things does nothing for me. The costume is cool but Tim just doesn't seem all that accurately portrayed from a visual perspective. Chris Yost's writing looks okay but nothing is really compelling me to buy this but I guess at this point to me Tim feels more like a 3rd wheel character now that Dick and Damien are partners.

I might pass on it.

[Armless Penguin]

it's not his fighting style

He's using a bo-staff. That's pretty much Tim's definitive fighting style.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

No, that's my recognizing the SAME thing you pointed out above, the unknown amount of time between his birthday and his leaving on the boat with Bruce and Dick. All we know for sure is that it wasn't a full year. I don't think it was more then a few months based on the apparent seasons. Tim's birthday is in July, it was seemingly fall when the boat shipped out.

That is more than reasonable, I never meant to suggest in any way that it is wrong to think that it could be only two additional months in addition to the gaps and leaps forward. You previously did not mention your logic, the passing of seasons, which is why I said it was arbitrary. Nevertheless, it was still as assumption, as it would be to assume it had been three months, or a month and a half or five months. It is not the only valid interpretation, one could judge the passage of time based on the events in Tim's life and how much focus was put on how he dealt with them.

Who said he was?

No one. I responded to your comments about suspension of disbelief. I will try to make myself clearer. I understand completely that comic time and real time are not the same and do not have a direct relationship. What I was suggesting there was that hypothetically if DC comics were to publish a comic tomorrow that said Tim Drake was 16, that would be how old he is.

In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter whether or not Tim is supposed to be 17 or 18?

Nope, not too important to me.

I'm looking forward to this book.

Bachs isn't my favorite, but he is alright. While I don't love Yost's works that I've read, I've enjoyed it somewhat. I like Tim Drake a lot, and I am curious to see where this stage in his life takes him.

[Jorriss]

He's using a bo-staff. That's pretty much Tim's definitive fighting style.
Oh snap son, I totally missed that slide. I was just basing it off the headbutt, etc. Alright, this is tim drake lol, but he seems a lot bigger.

[Karl O'Neill]

I'll pick up the first issue for sure.

I like Yost;s wrting.

[Will.S]

I'll pick up the first issue for sure.

I like Yost;s wrting.
At this rate you must be practically buying every DC title.

[Armless Penguin]

Oh snap son, I totally missed that slide. I was just basing it off the headbutt, etc. Alright, this is tim drake lol, but he seems a lot bigger.

The size of his arms in particular seems to vary like crazy even in those few pages. They're enormous on the two-page splash, but in some panels on the following page they're relatively more normal. His chest seems to be a permanent barrel though, but oh well. I'm excited for this book, mostly for Yost and it being Tim.

[Spiffy]

The definitive answer is as always "he's as old as they need him to be". Trying to link up actual past events in any sequence, or talking about one year jumps that they will or won't acknowledge randomly, or anything like that, is just senseless. He could be 16, he could be 19. We don't know until they tell us, and even if they DO tell us, its not beyond these books to later take it back. Likely they won't ever tell us, and we'll have no idea he's even hit 21 until they have some scene where he's hitting on a girl in bar while drinking a martini (in which case, they will imply he's somehow magically at some unspecified point in his mid-20s--a point at which he would remain for approximately the next 60 years following).

[Karl O'Neill]

At this rate you must be practically buying every DC title.

Almost. I love Dc's output these days.

I never Teen titans or Titans related books. I dropped Green Arrow/Black Canary months ago. I don't get strange adventures. I don't get supergirl anymore either.

[numberONE]

Looks good, but Tim's to big.

[Chachi]

Red Robin has some tasty sandwiches!

[Pixie_Solanas]

I'm eager to see if Yost is worthless without Kyle. Are they symbiotic like Zan and Jana?

[Redrumbin]

Looks good, but Tim's to big.

I don't agree, he was getting pretty tall on Nicieza's run.... Actually, he might be a little too bulky... Maybe he trained or something, hopefully it'll be explained. I used to like how as Robin he had this super spidey-like agile shape.
I'm a huge fan of Tim Drake, don't get me wrong, but I hope it's not going to be THAT serious for the whole series. I just, always took Tim for DC's Spider-Man.

[marvelprince]

I'm looking forward to this. I like the art (though I seem to be the minority there). In regards to him looking bigger, I have to say that its completely expected and I'm surprised anyone else is shocked by it. He's moving onto the next phase of his life and has outgrown the Robin mantle so of course they're going to have him physically bigger. I agree that it shouldn't be so much as to make the character unrecognizable, but then again from the previews we haven't even realy seen him stand in comparison to anyone else to state how "off" he might look.

I hope he sticks with the Red Robin identity. He needs to do something of his own and Red Robin is the perfect way to move on some, while still referencing where he came from.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

I hope he sticks with the Red Robin identity. He needs to do something of his own and Red Robin is the perfect way to move on some, while still referencing where he came from.

Well put marvelprince, that is exactly how I feel.

[HopeLantern]

I must have misread the list of comics coming out. Didn't really budget to pick this up but... it's Chris Yost, so I'll be getting.

I can't wait to find out why he's "Red Robin" now.

[Captain Jim]

I really would have liked to seen Tim create an entirely new persona to strike out on his own (a la Nightwing).

If you really want to be technical, Nightwing wasn't entirely a "new persona" either.

Maybe when Red Robin is all said and done Tim will adopt his own superhero identity. He seems to have outgrown Robin so I don't see him going back to that. And Red Robin seems like filler to me.

Why? What's wrong with Red Robin?

In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter whether or not Tim is supposed to be 17 or 18?

Hear, hear!

But I must say, what Ronnie says makes sense to me.

[Captain Jim]

I hope this finally puts to bed any doubt Tim is Red Robin....


I can't imagine that RR's identity won't be revealed before this issue is done. Though it will be about as surprising as Batman's (either that, or we're all going to be really shocked).

[marvelprince]

Well put marvelprince, that is exactly how I feel.

Anytime bro.

Btw, while I don't think it matters much at all I could buy Tim as being 18. With all the things Tim has gone through it would be plausible. Plus its comic book time, its the nature of the business. Its why Cassie Lang is 15/16 and Franklin is still 11 even though they're shown to be the same age many times (and with her younger in a few instances).

Once its not a massive difference in age (he's definitely not in his 20's) then its all good to me

[Frisky Dingo]

If you really want to be technical, Nightwing wasn't entirely a "new persona" either.


Touche, sir. That totally slipped my mind. But at least Nightwing is a little more distinct and different then tossing "Red" in front of your old superhero identity.

Speaking of which, I know Jason Todd picked up Red Robin in "Countdown" and then Tim eventually ended up with the costume in his "Robin" book. But I wasn't reading either of those series, I'm guessing we'll get an answer to this in "Red Robin", but can anyone hypothesize why would Tim would take on the Red Robin persona? Not sure if I'm missing some key element from not having read "Countdown" or "Robin" that would shed some light on this.

[marvelprince]

Touche, sir. That totally slipped my mind. But at least Nightwing is a little more distinct and different then tossing "Red" in front of your old superhero identity.

Speaking of which, I know Jason Todd picked up Red Robin in "Countdown" and then Tim eventually ended up with the costume in his "Robin" book. But I wasn't reading either of those series, I'm guessing we'll get an answer to this in "Red Robin", but can anyone hypothesize why would Tim would take on the Red Robin persona? Not sure if I'm missing some key element from not having read "Countdown" or "Robin" that would shed some light on this.

Well in Robin's he fights someone dressed in the Red Robin costume Jason threw away. Later in the serious he gets some burns about his head and to conceal them puts on the Red Robin cowl. The change in tone also makes sense because at the end of his series we see him resolve to become better and more like Bruce since Batman is gone.

[Armless Penguin]

Speaking of which, I know Jason Todd picked up Red Robin in "Countdown" and then Tim eventually ended up with the costume in his "Robin" book. But I wasn't reading either of those series, I'm guessing we'll get an answer to this in "Red Robin", but can anyone hypothesize why would Tim would take on the Red Robin persona? Not sure if I'm missing some key element from not having read "Countdown" or "Robin" that would shed some light on this.

One assumes because he couldn't exactly be Robin anymore and, as he needed something to wear while traveling around the world, he just grabbed the nearest superhero suit with a currently unused moniker that he had at hand. I'm not sure it really requires much more in the way of "this is why I'm now Red Robin." It very well might just be a convenience thing.

Or there could be some deep thematic reasoning. What do I know?

[another_version]

Touche, sir. That totally slipped my mind. But at least Nightwing is a little more distinct and different then tossing "Red" in front of your old superhero identity.

Speaking of which, I know Jason Todd picked up Red Robin in "Countdown" and then Tim eventually ended up with the costume in his "Robin" book. But I wasn't reading either of those series, I'm guessing we'll get an answer to this in "Red Robin", but can anyone hypothesize why would Tim would take on the Red Robin persona? Not sure if I'm missing some key element from not having read "Countdown" or "Robin" that would shed some light on this.

I believe it was originally the Earth-2 Dick Grayson's costume, so Tim may have chose it to signify a break away from his old life. That's my reasoning, but I haven't been reading comics that long, so hopefully someone has a more sound answer.

[Captain Jim]

I believe it was originally the Earth-2 Dick Grayson's costume, so Tim may have chose it to signify a break away from his old life. That's my reasoning, but I haven't been reading comics that long, so hopefully someone has a more sound answer.

Well, originally Red Robin was the future Dick Grayson is Kingdom Come (not earth 2). More recently, in Countdown, it was an identity a Bruce Wayne from another earth (not 2) created for Jason Todd.

[Frisky Dingo]

Sorry, double post.

[Frisky Dingo]

Thanks for the info everyone. Yeah I knew the Red Robin persona had orginated in Kingdom Come, but I didn't know the specifics of how it came back up in Countdown and then moved to Tim in Robin

[nepenthes]

Yost seems like an interesting writer. but i don't think the character, the concept and the art add up to a book i want to buy. especially not the art.

I hope Yost gets another chance at a different batman book someday

[Red_Knight]

Darn. Darn, darn, darn.

...

I just ordered #1. :( I am such a sucker! Why? I told myself I wouldn't! :evilangry: Darn DC and their new, cohesive, and all around interesting Batverse! Darn you! *shakes fist*

Seriously, though, I wasn't expecting to even give this a try. I never read Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, or any other "sidekick" book, so I figured it was a given I wouldn't read RR either. Guess not. At the end of the day, the idea of a somewhat unstable Tim travelling the world in order to unearth the truth about Bruce proved to be pretty much irresistable. Judging by what little has been revealed, it fees like a smash-up of Batman and Alias, which is simply to cool to pass up, obviously.

Part of me hopes the execution will suck horribly so that my poor, battered wallet may get some relief, -- but I doubt that'll be forthcoming.

[Nick Soapdish]

The definitive answer is as always "he's as old as they need him to be". Trying to link up actual past events in any sequence, or talking about one year jumps that they will or won't acknowledge randomly, or anything like that, is just senseless. He could be 16, he could be 19. We don't know until they tell us, and even if they DO tell us, its not beyond these books to later take it back. Likely they won't ever tell us, and we'll have no idea he's even hit 21 until they have some scene where he's hitting on a girl in bar while drinking a martini (in which case, they will imply he's somehow magically at some unspecified point in his mid-20s--a point at which he would remain for approximately the next 60 years following).

Bingo.

For example, Tim was 15 going into NML and 15 coming out even though it was supposed to be one year long.

[IvCNuB4]

I believe it was originally the Earth-2 Dick Grayson's costume, so Tim may have chose it to signify a break away from his old life. That's my reasoning, but I haven't been reading comics that long, so hopefully someone has a more sound answer.

No. This is the adult pre-Crisis Robin-2 outfit

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1c/Robinearth2.jpg

[Kylun123]

yea, I was actually going to give this book a shot, but then I read the preview and was really turned off . . . not sure if it's the art or the pacing, but something isn't working for me . . . I guess you guys'll have to let me know how it is . . .

[janthonyh]

Is anybody else craving a burger? :rolleyes:

[IvCNuB4]

I can't imagine that RR's identity won't be revealed before this issue is done..

You are correct, sir :biggrin:

[hYPE]

Is anybody else craving a burger? :rolleyes:

A can go for a burger and some comics. Can't wait for lunch so I can pick up RR#1. Totally stoked about this new series.

[Quinnhop]

What an enjoyable first issue.

Chris Yost's writing is splendid and the artwork was better than the artist's previous works would've lead me to believe.

My only issue is that it seems Tim was forced out of the Robin role. I would've liked to think he would've left it behind/given it to Damian by choice.

[Karl O'Neill]

Any interesting villains? or just generic thugs and terrorist agents?

[Armless Penguin]

Any interesting villains? or just generic thugs and terrorist agents?

Ra's al Ghul appears at the end.

[Mia]

Woa! Those pages look pretty! After this I hope that they keep Tim as Red Robin. For him to go back to being Robin would be a serious regression. They would just need to find a way to differentiate between him and Nightwing.

[zur en arrh]

The art really surprised me - in a good way, and Yost 's writing is satisfying. And obviously we all knew who was gonna be under the mask. I'm glad we got some pages with Dick, Damian, and Tim. And I was pleasently surprised to see Ra's at the end. I'm very much looking forward to reading this series, and I can't wait to see Tim actually find some clues that Bruce has left through time.

[Jason1Kent]

hmmmmmmmmmmm I for one found Tim's treatment rather bad to be honest. "He's dead Tim, move on" attitude was abit harsh also the filpant handing over of Robin indentidy to Damien.
I think Grant Morrison's take on the Dynamic duo basically called for " dump Tim" as to open up the Robin indentidy fro Damien(Morrison's creation I might add)
Loving Batman and Robin but having Tim looking like he is having a nervous breakdown "He's alive" on the kitchen floor is sad to see after all he had given as the boy wonder over the years.
With Conner and Bart back, I hope they help Tim see sense and kick Damien's butt.

[Redrumbin]

They make Tim look like he has a neurological disorder... If he's still so deep and dark after the next 2 or 3 issues I'm dropping this... I also hope they end up killing off Damian, it seems like each time I start to like him some different writer comes up with a douchier version of him.

[SuperSince92]

- thumbs up for this issue

- like the continued animosity between damien and tim

- enjoy the costume

- left me waiting to see what happens next with Tim's quest AND what the villian at the end was up to!!!

[BloodOps]

The ending of the issue makes things really really interesting.

[md62]

I liked most of the issue except for Dick's treatment of Tim. It felt so off. However Tim's interaction with Damian was perfect. I like Tim in the Red Robin costume. And I like the fact that Tim believes in Bruce's skills to survive so much that he will give up everything to find him.

[Kylun123]

I'm really liking the growth from Tim & Dick.

It just feels so natural to me.

It's rare in comics that we get to see characters grow up and move to the next stage.

[Chino]

I liked this issue and I'm def. on board but I really didn't like the way Tim looks so much older and bigger when in costume.

But anyway, solid first issue.

[Spiffy]

I liked most of the issue except for Dick's treatment of Tim. It felt so off. However Tim's interaction with Damian was perfect. I like Tim in the Red Robin costume. And I like the fact that Tim believes in Bruce's skills to survive so much that he will give up everything to find him.

The moment it was obvious that Damien would be Robin and that there'd be some Red Robin bouncing around (who wasn't likely Jason, since he wouldn't go back to that) this all seemed obvious. That Tim was being "cast off".

In a way I hate it more because it was all so obvious. Worst of all is Dick's "You're still my Number One" crap. It actually comes off as insincere--which is hard to do with Dick. Sure he needs Tim, but it seems like a one sided exchange.

I liked this issue and I'm def. on board but I really didn't like the way Tim looks so much older and bigger when in costume.

But anyway, solid first issue.
It's a Bat rule. Whenever there's an identity change, they age a few years and grow a few inches. Magically.

[Kiryu]

The moment it was obvious that Damien would be Robin and that there'd be some Red Robin bouncing around (who wasn't likely Jason, since he wouldn't go back to that) this all seemed obvious. That Tim was being "cast off".

In a way I hate it more because it was all so obvious. Worst of all is Dick's "You're still my Number One" crap. It actually comes off as insincere--which is hard to do with Dick. Sure he needs Tim, but it seems like a one sided exchange.


It's a Bat rule. Whenever there's an identity change, they age a few years and grow a few inches. Magically.

Why does it come off as insincere? Just reading the issue now, I have to say Tim is the one being completely unreasonably attached to the Robin persona. Tim seems so upset about the idea of Damian being Robin, but Dick, who was grown beyond "Robin" recognizes it as a temporary role and knows the GOOD it can do for a child.

Tim was being selfish, much as I love him, that was the case here.

And I don't blame the writer either. Since Identity Crisis DC has been obsessed with making Tim darker, and darker and well...tada.

[hYPE]

The ending of the issue makes things really really interesting.

I agree 100% Makes things a whole lot interesting! Love Tim's new costume! It's awesome!

[Retro315]

This issue wasn't the best issue ever, but in between the distractions that were besieging Tim and us, there were some good moments.

The mindframe he's in is right - and it's funny to think that he's the one acting completely irrational and selfish, (whether he's undergone horrible things or not) and yet, when it comes down to it, he's going to be the one who's right in the long run when Bruce comes back. Still, I hope to shake him out of his funk at least a little, he gets an obligatory guest visit from Superboy.

It's actually a pretty good story beat that Tim is globe-hopping trying to think of how Bruce could still be alive and that Ra's al Ghul of all people has picked up on it and is going to get involved. Too bad it's not somebody even more immortal, like Vandal Savage, who could very well know where Batman is.

(Side note: I'm curious to see how the Ra's/Vandal/Slade dynamic goes in Outsiders).

Of course, this was a pretty generic first issue otherwise, but it's got potential.

Also I laughed out loud at Damian.

[nepenthes]

This was better than Batman 687. particularly the scene with Dick, Tim and Damian...ha ha too good

Tims explanation for the choice of costume - that it was already "tarnished" - is interesting. I think I like it. Also his state of mind comes across very strong, that whole scene where he becomes convinced Bruce is still alive works well.

[Choppa]

So what's this big clue that makes him think Bruce is still alive?? The map he was staring at?? Maybe he was watching an episode of The Flintstones and it suddenly came to him??

[CocktailXYZ]

"Shut up, Damian."

Classic.

[HopeLantern]

This was better than Batman 687. particularly the scene with Dick, Tim and Damian...ha ha too good

Tims explanation for the choice of costume - that it was already "tarnished" - is interesting. I think I like it. Also his state of mind comes across very strong, that whole scene where he becomes convinced Bruce is still alive works well.

By far this was the best part of the story. Red Robin was a great tale, and I'm hooked on this series now. I also agree it was better than Batman #687. Not sure how it happened, but Winick got Dick's voice as a young Robin completely wrong. On almost every level. But Yost? I think he nailed the new Tim's attitude. Now, it makes the Red Robin outfit worthwhile. Can't wait for issue #2.

[Jorriss]

I'm surprised Tim reacted so much to not being Robin. Dick is right, for all intents and purposes, they are basically equal. Dick is still the more effective crime fighter but Tim is far beyond being a protege.

[marvelprince]

I thought Tim's reaction made lot of sense. To him not being Robin and to losing Bruce. Think about it, the past few years he's lost his Mom, his dad, his girlfriend, his best friend, a teammate and now a mentor? Yeah I know a few of these people have returned, but it doesn't offset the loss he's had to deal with. He's got to have serious attachment issues. Whether its attachment to Bruce (he doesn't want to loss someone else so close to him), or attachment to his role as Robin (his one constant source of stability) it all adds up.

What I didn't like how Dick came off as well...a dick. I know he wasn't trying to be harsh, but taking away Tim's Robin identity to give to the kid that tried to kill Tim? And then, to not even say anything to him bout it beforehand is just not cool and not the way I'd have expected him to act. Other than that the issue was very good. Not as good as Batman, but a great start.

[Jorriss]

I thought Tim's reaction made lot of sense. To him not being Robin and to losing Bruce. .
I completely agree it's a lot, I just figured he'd better understand Dick's reasoning.


What I didn't like how Dick came off as well...a dick. I know he wasn't trying to be harsh, but taking away Tim's Robin identity to give to the kid that tried to kill Tim?
I understand the point but I don't agree myself. Robin has always been a sidekick role, and I think it was respectable for Dick to state he can't see Tim as his sidekick and therefore it doesn't make sense for him to be Robin. It would of been cool if he offered him Nightwing or something, but I think the reasoning was good and he wasn't cold at all so I don't think it was dickish like Bruce does things.

[marvelprince]

I completely agree it's a lot, I just figured he'd better understand Dick's reasoning.

I get that.

I understand the point but I don't agree myself. Robin has always been a sidekick role, and I think it was respectable for Dick to state he can't see Tim as his sidekick and therefore it doesn't make sense for him to be Robin. It would of been cool if he offered him Nightwing or something, but I think the reasoning was good and he wasn't cold at all so I don't think it was dickish like Bruce does things.

Ok, first off I think dick was too harsh a word. Insensitive fits better (someone used that word before, nice word because I think it fits perfectly here). For the rest....

Well as Nightwing he and Tim have teamed up numerous occasions. Dick wanted to grow into his own man, thats where Nightwing came in. Tim didn't want to forge a new identity. He was comfortable as Robin and instead was replaced with the little from hell. I see what Dick was trying to say and his reasoning behind it, but if he had just talked about it to Tim first instead of doing it the result would've been so much better. It did make me feel good to see that Dick recognizes Tim and an equal and not his inferior.

I also agree that Dick was not nearly as dickish as Bruce was.

[joemagnum611]

I liked the writing in the issue a lot especially the " I'm Tim Wayne." I still can't get behind the whole Red Robin identity though. He was forced out of one sidekick costume into another. I would have liked to see Tim forge his own new Identity rather than take up one of a side kick from another earth (even though he never got to wear it) then worn by a broken ex-sidekick

[Skyrider]

Why does it come off as insincere? Just reading the issue now, I have to say Tim is the one being completely unreasonably attached to the Robin persona. Tim seems so upset about the idea of Damian being Robin, but Dick, who was grown beyond "Robin" recognizes it as a temporary role and knows the GOOD it can do for a child.

Tim was being selfish, much as I love him, that was the case here.

And I don't blame the writer either. Since Identity Crisis DC has been obsessed with making Tim darker, and darker and well...tada.

I can't really blame Tim for this. From his point of view, Robin's all he has left. And really...it literally is.

From Dick's perspective though he needs to do something about Damian or the little punk is going to kill someone else.

Tim's not exactly in a great emotional state. I think the only thing this series can do though is show the rebuilding of his character. Lets face it, the good in Tim will always win out. It's the struggle to find his place in the world now that's going to be what this series is about.

[Mac]

I love this book.
Honestly. It all felt real and very, very powerful.

Sure Tim was over reacting about Damian becoming Dick's Robin. But you GET why. The main two things to remind him of Bruce were for one the Robin identity and his name. Which, I would assume, was the reasoning behind the several times he called himself Tim Wayne (Which did come off very effectively).

He acted selfish and deluded, but Yost gave Tim a rationale behind that, that lets us understand WHY- and just pulls it off so well.
Yost really gets an A+ here, just for making this book such a great read. I love that you actually get into Tims head and see just HOW he is grieving the loss of Bruce.

Tim punching Damian was great. Although, I really wish it would've shut Damian up. Aside from that, I loved practically everything about this book.

Best two lines
"My name is Tim Wayne!"
"Find the answer. Bruce is out there somewhere. And he wouldn't give up on me. I won't let him down. I won't let him fade away. Please, God, don't let me be crazy."

I'm glad Yost did so great on this first issue. RR will be on my pull list for awhile now.

[Maestro]

this was a real cool book! this is like the best of the Robin series and the Nightwing series all in one.

I hope Tim does find Bruce. I mean, he is leaving those cave symbols after all.

[Maestro]

lolz

http://i44.tinypic.com/34fjjlx.jpg

[paulski]

Tim punching Damian was great. Although, I really wish it would've shut Damian up.

I flicked through the issue on the stands today and that part certainly stood out. And yeah, Damian needs to be taken down a peg or three.

Can't wait to start reading this book in trades. Just can't afford another new Batbook on top of the new ones I'm already adding, though.

[nepenthes]

I love this book.
Honestly. It all felt real and very, very powerful.

Sure Tim was over reacting about Damian becoming Dick's Robin. But you GET why. The main two things to remind him of Bruce were for one the Robin identity and his name. Which, I would assume, was the reasoning behind the several times he called himself Tim Wayne (Which did come off very effectively).

He acted selfish and deluded, but Yost gave Tim a rationale behind that, that lets us understand WHY- and just pulls it off so well.
Yost really gets an A+ here, just for making this book such a great read. I love that you actually get into Tims head and see just HOW he is grieving the loss of Bruce.

Tim punching Damian was great. Although, I really wish it would've shut Damian up. Aside from that, I loved practically everything about this book.

Best two lines
"My name is Tim Wayne!"
"Find the answer. Bruce is out there somewhere. And he wouldn't give up on me. I won't let him down. I won't let him fade away. Please, God, don't let me be crazy."

I'm glad Yost did so great on this first issue. RR will be on my pull list for awhile now.

agreed this post nails what I liked about this issue.

I read this in the store and figured I wouldn't be picking up this series, but I'm actually wishing i bought a copy of Red Robin instead of Batman now.

[Red_Knight]

Just read it. Dang. My fears have come true. The things that convinced me try the book in the first place were well eecuted and left me hungry for more. So, to the pull list it is... (cue wallett groaning)

I guess it's still too early to tell just how good this will end up being on a regular basis (and I agree with whoever said that Tim had better face worthier foes than unnamed meta terrorists), but the potential is there. #1 was certainly a great start as far as I'm concerned,. Solid artwork, too.

Seeing Ra's Al Ghul pop up on the last page only raised my hopes. I, too, think we're witnessing the start of an uneasy partnership here. Tim seems unstable and desperate enough to go for it. Heck, he said he'd cross lines. It would make sense to start with that one. Ra's has vast resources and experience, after all. Besides, he has lived for ages, so he knows a thing or two about cheating death. (How long exactly, btw? Is there a chance he might have met Bruce somewhere in the past?)

My overall grade: B. Looking forward to #2

[Spiffy]

Besides, he has lived for ages, so he knows a thing or two about cheating death. (How long exactly, btw? Is there a chance he might have met Bruce somewhere in the past?)
Perhaps. But Vandal Savage is far older, and would have made vastly more sense for that kind of twist.

[Inertia]

Did anyone else notice that in the issue it said Prague, Czechoslovakia? Czechoslovakia doesn't exist anymore. There's Czech Republic and Slovakia. Two separate countries.

[Choppa]

Besides, he has lived for ages, so he knows a thing or two about cheating death. (How long exactly, btw? Is there a chance he might have met Bruce somewhere in the past?)


Wtf?? Now you're saying that Bruce didn't just go back in time, but actually changed it?? What is this, LOST now??

[Alexx1]

Of all the "new" Bat books (and Batman book) I've read so far, I enjoyed this one the most. I like that Yost has given Tim even more edge than even Fabian did. I like characters with a bit of an edge and I like stories that are grittier because they also have their place in DC comics. I like that Tim and Dick have really seperate personalities(and it's highlighted even more here) and I like that Tim is becoming his own man and defining how he wants to go about doing things and I like that it feels like he'll be doing things differently. It sets him apart where as I find a lot of the Bat-family character are too similiar because they subscribe to the "Batman" code or way of doing things. That gets a little boring.

I'm really hoping that at some point Yost will write a few issues with The Huntress! I'd like to see this "new Tim" interact with Helena. They've always had such special relationship. As he is maturing more, I'd like to see him confide in her more because there was always an understood trust that existed between them and lets face it Tim needs someone he can talk with. And let's face it, The Huntress, could benefit from a writer like Yost, who writes strong female characters better than just about anyone.

Anyway, it's good to see Yost in the DC world and I'm looking forward to Tim's journey more and more.

[Sn4tcH]

I loved this issue. There's a scene after Tim has his fit about not being Robin, and he's sitting there. For about 3 panels they just focus on his face scowling, and the fourth panel his face suddenly changes like he's remembering his mission and he starts mumbling about Bruce being alive. It gets everything this comic is about right out there.Tim is on a mission, and set backs aside, he WILL accomplish it or die, because it's all he has left.

It makes me wish that Yost would have written the scene in the cave when Superman is giving Dick the cowl (though when Alfred said "My son has died" I got a lil choked up). But Tim just kind of sits back during this scene, and I would loved to see him trying to conivince himself that Bruce was alive, even in the face of what Superman's saying.

[Jimmy'sFriend]

Here's my reivew...

Red Robin #1
With the new Batman taking on a new Robin, Tim Drake is out of a job and costume. Donning the Red Robin tights, cape and mask, Drake commences a personal quests on the means streets of Paris. He is convinced Bruce Wayne is still alive and vows to find him. He must be reading message boards.

Author Chris Yost gives us this inaugural issue of Drake and his life after “Battle for the Cowl.” I didn’t like the random action sequences thrown into the plot. They seemed like cheap tricks to give Red Robin a reason to fight and show he’s bad ass. The scene in the Batcave with Damien and Dick Grayson was very well written. I felt a little bad for poor Tim, getting the boot. Damien needs his ass kicked and I hope Tim Drake gets the chance to do it. Yost points the story in an exciting direction, the search for Bruce Wayne.

Roman Bachs’ art was hit or miss. Opening splash pages were exceptional yet others seemed like an afterthought. The reveal on the final page lost its impact, lager because the art was lazy and unrefined. There were nice moments, but overall average.

I think this story has huge potential. Both plot and art just need a bit of tightening up for this to go from good to great.

3 out of 5


What did you guys think of the art?

[Red_Knight]

Wtf?? Now you're saying that Bruce didn't just go back in time, but actually changed it?? What is this, LOST now??

Umm... Dunno. How am I supposed to know what I'm thinking before I hear what I'm saying? :biggrin:

Seriously, at this point, it's all just speculation. We can't even be 100% certain that Bruce ended up in the same reality as the rest of the Bat Family. He may well be in the past of an alternate timeline, which would render anything he does menaingless as far as the main DCU is concerned. Of course, the newly released solicits for RR#3 have mentioned evidence for Bruce's fate popping up in a museum, so I guess he is lost in the main timeline after all, but still...

In any case, I would expect Bruce to cause some changes to the timeline while he's in the past. They don't have to be huge (or even relevant to the DCU, in fact), but I don't see how he could avoid it, logically. It's not like he's going to sit still and hold his breath. Even by painting the bat symbol on a pre-historic cave wall, he is already changing time.

Besides, who's to say that whatever Bruce might change in the past wasn't "meant" to happen that way in the first place? That notion is certainly a popular trope of time travel stories. (I mean, just look at the Terminator movies. Future Skynet effectively ends up being responsible for the creation of present-day Skynet. Sure, it makes your head explode to think about, but that's the way it is.) If Bruce and Ra's met, maybe that's just the way things went, and Ra's is realizing only now that he actually encountered Bruce Wayne centuries before the latter was even born. It would certainly explain why Ra's might believe that Bruce is still out there, if that is indeed the direction the story is going in.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Did anyone else notice that in the issue it said Prague, Czechoslovakia? Czechoslovakia doesn't exist anymore. There's Czech Republic and Slovakia. Two separate countries.

I did notice that, it kind of annoyed me. Didn't ruin the issue for me or anything, but it did take me out of the story for a moment.

[Karl O'Neill]

Just to make peoples jealous.

My local comic store done a special price incentive on this first issue for 2 EUROS!

That's a nice cheap way to try new series like this one.

I will read it later and post my comments then.

[Sn4tcH]

I did notice that, it kind of annoyed me. Didn't ruin the issue for me or anything, but it did take me out of the story for a moment.

:eek:

You know what, I bet it's Superboy Primes fault.

[Jorriss]

If Bruce went back in time to a point where fire was a big deal, how could he live long enough to meet Ras?

[gocryemokid]

I really enjoyed RR #1. 4/5.

I was worried how the persona change would go but I love how it happened. Dick is Tim's peer, his equal, so in Dick's becoming Batman it creates a kind of automatic "promotion" for Tim. I could see how he feels upset, like he's been abandoned, but I think he'll come around and realize that Dick was doing that out of the utmost respect for Tim. Also, Dick didn't want Damian running around alone and could think of no better way than Robinizing him.

So Tim, feeling unwanted, and greiving, decides Bruce has to be alive and begins the search. He can't just run around without a costume, and he could have taken the Robin costume because he'd be nowhere near Gotham, but as he said that'd be easy to trace back to Dick and Damian and only cause them problems. So he, feeling abandoned, adopts the abandoned persona of Red Robin.

I love it. I think people only see this as a step down because of the name RED Robin. "Oh you went from Robin to Red Robin? Whoopty freakin doo who cares?" But if he called himself something else, like when Dick went from Robin to Nightwing, we'd all be proud. So what I'm saying here is that we still should be, Tim's his own hero now and not someone's #2.

[Skyrider]

You know, something needs to be pointed out.

Tim may not see the Robin role the same way that Dick does.

To Dick, Robin was a transitional role he played. He created it, sent the tempo, but ultimately he seemed to remain much a sidekick until he became Nightwing.

Tim took the Robin mantle but was always far more of an independent hero, often operating without Batman at all (for numerous reasons, Knightfall, No Man's Land, etc).

If anything I think Tim grew the identity more. Where as Dick needed to drop the name/costume to become his own man, Tim made the Robin mantle HIS and probably could have continued operating as Robin for years to come.

I think that all ties into his reaction. He never saw Robin 100% as Batman's apprentice, he truly strove to be Batman's partner. That and I think the only thing he had to look forward to was being Dick's partner, when Dick took the mantle, as brothers.

[Jorriss]

To Dick, Robin was a transitional role he played. He created it, sent the tempo, but ultimately he seemed to remain much a sidekick until he became Nightwing.
.
You're probably right here, while Dick did Titans work, etc when he was Robin, he was always expected to go back to Batman but Tim really furthered the role to the point where he may not have felt it was just a side kicks position anymore.

On another point, if Tim and Dick are equals now [or at least close enough to be comparable] it's hard to imagine how much better Tim is going to be than Bruce or Dick in 10 years.

[Karl O'Neill]

That skyrider from the old newsarama?!

How goes?

[HopeLantern]

I think Red Robin and B & R are going to be my favorites of the post BFTC world. It has been a while since an issue #1 blew me out the water, and I think this impressed me even more than Batman & Robin #1 did. I really like Tim's transition. Yost made this a natural progression for Tim. Can't wait until next month's issue!

[Karl O'Neill]

I slightly disagree with natural progression, And bare in mind I have not read my issue yet.

Because TIM is better than the RR identity and costume.

[Jorriss]

Because TIM is better than the RR identity and costume.
Read the issue when you can, that's covered fairly nicely.

[gocryemokid]

This is where I am confused.

Why do people think Tim is better than "Red Robin"? Do people think Red Robin is worse than Robin or something?

[marvelprince]

This is where I am confused.

Why do people think Tim is better than "Red Robin"? Do people think Red Robin is worse than Robin or something?

I guess because the Red Robin identity is something we've seen before. Dick in Kingdom Come and Jason in Countdown. Personally, it makes no sense to me but whatever.

What I didn't like about the issue was that the search for Bruce just seemed so random. This is a master detective and in trying to find his mentor he hops on a plane to a random destination and essentially plays Marco Polo? Read a bit off to me. Still, its a minor issue, but one that was nagging at me a bit.

[CocktailXYZ]

What I didn't like about the issue was that the search for Bruce just seemed so random.

That's where I find fault in the story as well. "I know he's alive, so I'm going to hop from city to city in the off chance that he'll pop up somewhere!"

It didn't seem like there was any reasoning behind where he was traveling.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

That's where I find fault in the story as well. "I know he's alive, so I'm going to hop from city to city in the off chance that he'll pop up somewhere!"

It didn't seem like there was any reasoning behind where he was traveling.

I would agree if we didn't have narration that said it took him a few days to figure out where to start, to start his research and to catalog evidence. While we haven't SEEN the reasoning behind where he was traveling yet, we definitely get an overt indication that there is a logic behind it.

[PatrickG]

It's a Bat rule. Whenever there's an identity change, they age a few years and grow a few inches. Magically.

Heck, even Alfred was pretty musclebound whenever he impersonated Batman.

[Kylun123]

While we haven't SEEN the reasoning behind where he was traveling yet, we definitely get an overt indication that there is a logic behind it.

Do you think it's something Yost will expound upon or is it deemed unecessary and we simply have to go with it?

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Do you think it's something Yost will expound upon or is it deemed unecessary and we simply have to go with it?

I would hope we'd see it addressed further at some point over the next several issues, maybe this 4-part introductory arc. I don't know for sure what Yost will do, of course, but I'd think he would want to touch on it more, at least a little, since it is the impetus for Tim's voyage overseas

[Scott Taylor]

Definitely my favorite book this week. I loved the interaction between Tim, Dick and Damien. Poor Tim is sort of stuck in the middle of things. It really wouldn't make sense for him to work under Dick, not as much sense as Damien makes. But that leaves him in a bit of a quandry - so he takes the opportunity to go and look for Bruce.

Seemed a little short to me. Maybe because it was a good read.

[janthonyh]

Seriously does anyone want to go get a burger at Red Robin. They have one called the Royale that has a fried egg with bacon and cheese. It's pretty tasty!

[Kiryu]

Seriously does anyone want to go get a burger at Red Robin. They have one called the Royale that has a fried egg with bacon and cheese. It's pretty tasty!

Red Robin's aren't open anywhere near me. So sometimes I see all these food references and get confused.

[Mat001]

Red Robin's aren't open anywhere near me. So sometimes I see all these food references and get confused.

I have one open, though a ways off from where I live. I keep snickering whenever I see that place.

[Rev. Calibos]

Loved this a lot more than I thought I would.

I liked the fact that Tim went overseas. What better way to distance himself from Gotham, his friends and his past then to head to Europe?

I feel for Tim, his frustrations with Dick, his feelings of abandonment and betrayal, his annoyance at Damian, it all made sense.

Great stuff, out of what we've seen so far I'd say that this issue tops both Batman and B and R.

[Bat_Fan2232]

I loved it. I cant believe how awesome this is going to be, im going to go with the best of all the new batman stuff will be in this comic.

[Greg Anderson]

lolz

http://i44.tinypic.com/34fjjlx.jpg

Aww man. I love Damien. :biggrin:

[Captain Jim]

You know, something needs to be pointed out.

Tim may not see the Robin role the same way that Dick does.

To Dick, Robin was a transitional role he played. He created it, sent the tempo, but ultimately he seemed to remain much a sidekick until he became Nightwing.

Tim took the Robin mantle but was always far more of an independent hero, often operating without Batman at all (for numerous reasons, Knightfall, No Man's Land, etc).

If anything I think Tim grew the identity more. Where as Dick needed to drop the name/costume to become his own man, Tim made the Robin mantle HIS and probably could have continued operating as Robin for years to come.

I think that all ties into his reaction. He never saw Robin 100% as Batman's apprentice, he truly strove to be Batman's partner. That and I think the only thing he had to look forward to was being Dick's partner, when Dick took the mantle, as brothers.

Good observation.

[Spiffy]

Aww man. I love Damien. :biggrin:
Well, there's always one!

But seriously. At least we are getting a Damien now who's snark is genuinely amusing. Versus the previous version, who was just a little homicidal snot.

[Jorriss]

Damien sucks but man, his costume is the best of the Robin one's imo.

[the Hornet]

You're probably right here, while Dick did Titans work, etc when he was Robin, he was always expected to go back to Batman but Tim really furthered the role to the point where he may not have felt it was just a side kicks position anymore.

On another point, if Tim and Dick are equals now [or at least close enough to be comparable] it's hard to imagine how much better Tim is going to be than Bruce or Dick in 10 years.

I prefer to think that Tim and Dick have different qualities. I doubt he is truly equal to Dick at the moment. He has better detective skills but lacks Dick's physical prowess or his leadership skills. As the younger person Tim will definately outmatch Bruce and Dick one day just like Damian will once day outmatch Tim and so on.....

But the whole point is useless because Bruce will never get old and will probaply outlast all his sidekicks......:redface:

[Jorriss]

I prefer to think that Tim and Dick have different qualities. I doubt he is truly equal to Dick at the moment. He has better detective skills but lacks Dick's physical prowess or his leadership skills. As the younger person Tim will definately outmatch Bruce and Dick one day just like Damian will once day outmatch Tim and so on.....

Yeah, your last comment about Damian eventually being the best made me think I wish they stopped with Tim.

And is Tim officially the better detective of the two? And in that case, is he equal to or better than Bruce?

[RunningWithJuanPablo]

This I liked. Tim is certainly feeling down about the current situation, but he has hope that he'll find Bruce and now there is no telling what Ra's may do to his psyche, so I'm ready to see where Ra's takes this.

Also, that monster thing that killed the bomber...for a second I thought that it was Tim, due to his thoughts, but surely not. Does anyone know what it may be?

[RunningWithJuanPablo]

Did anyone else notice that in the issue it said Prague, Czechoslovakia? Czechoslovakia doesn't exist anymore. There's Czech Republic and Slovakia. Two separate countries.
I noticed that too and snickered.

[marvelprince]

Yeah, your last comment about Damian eventually being the best made me think I wish they stopped with Tim.

And is Tim officially the better detective of the two? And in that case, is he equal to or better than Bruce?

I'm pretty sure Dick has gone on record saying that he thinks Tim is a better detective than he is.

Bruce surely is still superior to Tim though.

[Fatguy]

I thought the issue was great, I REALLY enjoyed it. Tim's current state of mind was presented in an entirely believable way and I'm loving his new direction. This is what I've been hoping for since the Red Robin ID was announced as making its way from the Kingdom Come universe in the main DCU. Its just a fantastic visual. All in all, I had very high hopes for this and it managed to meet them in full. So far anyways :wink:

Chris Yost if you're reading this thread, I've been a fan for a long time now, and I'm very, very glad to have you in the DC universe. IMHO DC has been in need of more excellent writers for some time now.

[numberONE]

I really enjoyed this issue. I wasn't even planing on reading it, since I never read Tim's last book, but I'm glad I did.

You know, something needs to be pointed out.

Tim may not see the Robin role the same way that Dick does.

To Dick, Robin was a transitional role he played. He created it, sent the tempo, but ultimately he seemed to remain much a sidekick until he became Nightwing.

Tim took the Robin mantle but was always far more of an independent hero, often operating without Batman at all (for numerous reasons, Knightfall, No Man's Land, etc).

If anything I think Tim grew the identity more. Where as Dick needed to drop the name/costume to become his own man, Tim made the Robin mantle HIS and probably could have continued operating as Robin for years to come.

I think that all ties into his reaction. He never saw Robin 100% as Batman's apprentice, he truly strove to be Batman's partner. That and I think the only thing he had to look forward to was being Dick's partner, when Dick took the mantle, as brothers.

Really good points.

[nepenthes]

I hope Yost and/or Bachs are open to tinkering with the costume as they go. the awkward Space Ghost meets pirate look is pretty horrid imo. and how does it not connect back to Dick and Damian if he goes around calling himself Red ROBIN?

And is Tim officially the better detective of the two? And in that case, is he equal to or better than Bruce?

Bruce thinks that Tim will become a better detective than him one day, and that he's far better than himself for his age.

[Karl O'Neill]

I liked it. The last page was interesting. I wonder will this tie in with what ra's has planned with his new azreal sect.

[Geeky Cheeky]

Red Robin's aren't open anywhere near me. So sometimes I see all these food references and get confused.

Me too. I didn't get it until dogprod posted.

I loved this issue. I think the characterizations of Dick, Tim and Damien were spot on. The reasoning behind Dick's decision were correct as well as Tim's reaction to it. That's what I loved. Sure they could have talked it out better but I felt that was true to form. They were both raised by Bruce.

I enjoyed this more than B&R. I only wish that we had been given some small reason why Tim believes Bruce is alive.

[Fatguy]

I think its funny that as we gain a more light hearted Batman, we also gain a set of darker Robins.

[ffaristocrat]

If Bruce went back in time to a point where fire was a big deal, how could he live long enough to meet Ras?

Isn't the idea that he's living a succession of crappy lives?

[lawman]

He's 17 right now, unless there is a time jump I'm missing.
Going by events, that's where he's at. he had his 16th before that year long jaunt around the world with Dick and Bruce, ergo.....he's 17.
What does real time have to do with anything? the only thing that matters when figuring out character ages is comic time.

And according to comic time, there has only been 18, maybe 20 months since Tim's 16th birthday.
Obviously... the amount of real time is utterly irrelevant. Otherwise Bruce would be in 90s.

The problem with comic time it's NOT liner. if it was, the boys we be a LOT older just by the number of times they've spent xmas morning together. There is an element of suspension of disbelief involved with comic time. As such even going by what is written is a best guess.

And until someone says he's 18, I'm going to keep thinking he's seventeen because that's what it adds up to given the numbers previously printed.
Wow. Stubborn much?

To say real time is relevant is not to say that the books are actually happening in real time. It is, however, to acknowledge that some amount of time passes as stories are published. Your operating assumption here seems to be that except for the explicit large time-jumps of OYL and the first issue of RIP, no time at all passed for Tim (and thus for the rest of the DCU) while several years' worth of stories were being published.

Comics time does require some flexibility and suspension of disbelief, yes. However, it pretty much is linear, your denials (and occasional time-travel stories) notwithstanding. As George Olshevsky demonstrated with his Marvel Indices way back in the '80s, it's possible to do a close analytical reading of comics stories and determine how much time has passed.

(Note, I'm certainly not saying any has to do that sort of thing to appreciate the characters or stories, of course. But I happen to enjoy that sort of thing, so when the subject turns to "how much time has passed?", it just seems reasonable to me to look at the actual evidence.)

When have they said that on panel recently? He was 16 some time before the One Year Later leap, and there was an indeterminate amount of time between the return from One Year Later and RIP, plus another 6 months between RIP and the end of Battle for the Cowl. I don't think that he couldn't be 17, but he'd have to at least be approaching 18.
No, it is not irrelevant, it is inconclusive. There are 3 years worth of Robin appearances in various titles took place and that Tim had a lot of significant things happen in his life during this time, including the death of his girlfriend, and his father, and the institutionalization of his step mother, and a time training and working with a superhuman military group.

I am not saying that Tim IS 18, I'm not suggesting it is the only possible conclusion. I am saying that clearly some time has passed between his 16th birthday and the issue before the One Year Later jump forward.

The same is true of Tim's time between the One Year Later jump forward and the beginning of RIP. Tim passed between those two points, Stephanie was revealed to be alive, Tim met Damian, fought Cassandra and she worked with the Outsiders. I do not know how much time, because it hasn't been said in a time line or in discussion in the comics.
Careful, you're trying to apply logic here. :wink: Some readers just prefer to say "character X being age Y feels right to me," and no amount of reasoned argumentation will sway them.

Actually, as long as we're talking about this, I'd point out that there's no way Tim could have been only 16 even when his "16th birthday" story was published, following very similar reasoning. Look at all the other events in Gotham (and the whole DCU) since his debut at 13 that preceded that birthday: months of training and travel; Knightfall and Knightquest and their aftermath; Zero Hour; Contagion; the earthquake; "No Man's Land" (explicitly told as a year-long story); Lex Luthor's entire presidency; Bruce Wayne: Murderer and Fugitive (also explicitly months-long); scores of issues of his own adventures, solo and with the Titans and Young Justice and the Teen Titans... and I'm leaving a lot out here. There's just no conceivable way all that stuff could fit into only 2-1/2 years. IMHO, Tim's been over 18 for quite a while now.

FWIW, my web site (see the sig) goes into some detail about my take on DC's timeline and character ages. I love this stuff.

I will try to make myself clearer. I understand completely that comic time and real time are not the same and do not have a direct relationship. What I was suggesting there was that hypothetically if DC comics were to publish a comic tomorrow that said Tim Drake was 16, that would be how old he is.
Well, now, here I have to part ways with you...

The definitive answer is as always "he's as old as they need him to be". Trying to link up actual past events in any sequence, or talking about one year jumps that they will or won't acknowledge randomly, or anything like that, is just senseless. He could be 16, he could be 19. We don't know until they tell us, and even if they DO tell us, its not beyond these books to later take it back...
...and you, much as I otherwise enjoy your posts. There's a history and a backstory here, and absent some in-story continuity reset, it all still pertains. Saying "continuity is whatever the current writer feels like saying" just doesn't make sense in any satisfying way... what might seem to "work" for a single story can undermine the DCU as a whole.

I would put Tim somewhere between 17 and 18, that make sense to me. And either way it's not that big of a difference in age. However, what's throwing me off in the preview isn't the height (since we don't really see him standing up right next to anyone) but how much he appears to have bulked up. Hopefully we'll get some flashbacks up him working out like crazy after BfTC to have that make sense.
Personally, I love the idea of Tim getting out on his own, away from Gotham (he's always seemed to work best as a "globetrotting" adventurer anyway, IMHO), and in particular away from the whole high school setting that frankly he outgrew years ago. (Do you realize Tim's been shown attending no less than six high schools over the years? Seriously, he's been stuck in HS longer than Peter Parker was in college. And that's saying something.) He's really past being depicted as a "teen" character. He's become his own man.

That said, I agree that the art depicted him as implausibly bulky. OTOH, just to be fair, I seem to recall that in the story where Fabian Nicieza reintroduced the RR costume, it was shown to be padded and armored when Ulysses Armstrong wore it. (Not that that would account for Tim looking taller... but hey, it's something.)

Nonetheless, I quite enjoyed the first issue of the new book. I think Yost (whose work I'm not all that familiar with) did an effective job of conveying an authentic emotional response on Tim's part to being displaced by Damian, and it's clear why his progress through the grieving process (especially given all the other tragedy in his life) is leading him to look for Bruce. Why he's looking in Europe I don't really know, but I'm sure all will be made clear.

I'm no fan of Damian, but all the same I think it'd be a shame if Tim ever regresses back to being Robin. Let's keep him moving forward, not back!

If Bruce went back in time to a point where fire was a big deal, how could he live long enough to meet Ras?
He couldn't, no way, no how. 40,000 BCE is not the same as 1500 CE, even though both are in "the past." That kind of sloppiness leads to stories about cavemen riding dinosaurs.

Personally I suspect Ra's is interested in Tim for reasons of his own, that have nothing to do with the quest for Bruce. Ra's always has a plot or three up his sleeve.

[CMBMOOL]

You know, something needs to be pointed out.

Tim may not see the Robin role the same way that Dick does.

To Dick, Robin was a transitional role he played. He created it, sent the tempo, but ultimately he seemed to remain much a sidekick until he became Nightwing.

Tim took the Robin mantle but was always far more of an independent hero, often operating without Batman at all (for numerous reasons, Knightfall, No Man's Land, etc).

If anything I think Tim grew the identity more. Where as Dick needed to drop the name/costume to become his own man, Tim made the Robin mantle HIS and probably could have continued operating as Robin for years to come.

I think that all ties into his reaction. He never saw Robin 100% as Batman's apprentice, he truly strove to be Batman's partner. That and I think the only thing he had to look forward to was being Dick's partner, when Dick took the mantle, as brothers.

It takes great points like these that I that wonder if it crossed Dick's mind when he made Damien Robin instead of Tim.

Mark my words, that Little pyschopath will be Dick's Jason Todd and would prove Tim right as it may blow up in his face. :evilsmile:

[pariah-1972]

It does seem like Tim Drake has suddenly gotten a lot taller when he used to be the same height as Damien before.

[pariah-1972]

It does seem like Tim Drake has suddenly gotten a lot taller when he used to be the same height as Damien before.

[pariah-1972]

double post.

[bdk91939]

Was there any explanation why Tim is in Europe looking for Bruce?

[pariah-1972]

Was there any explanation why Tim is in Europe looking for Bruce?Not yet.....

[Hawkman]

I haven't bought an issue featuring Tim Drake as the lead character since I was probably fourteen. Nothing against the character, I've just never been much of a Robin fan in general. The cover to this really caught my attention, though, not to mention Yost's involvement, and I have to say I enjoyed it quite a bit. I'm not sure I'll stick with it for the long haul, but it'll stay on my pull list throughout it's first arc, at least.

[Lupek]

I just read this today and enjoyed it. Mostly I am a fan of the costume but I liked the internal turmoil (or whatever it's called!) going on in Tim's head.

It does seem like DC is doing their best to make it so there is never the possibility of Dick Grayson wearing the Red Robin suit, which is too bad. But I am on this for the first arc at least, maybe longer.

[agentofthebat]

I have read it 10 times by now. I think its awesome

[carabas]

Was there any explanation why Tim is in Europe looking for Bruce?
He isn't. He just went to Europe for no reason at all, and when he was there, he got a random brainfart that made him go look for Bruce Wayne (even though he knwos Bruce Wayne's corpse is in his coffin.

Shoddy plotting.

I also didn't like how the writer seemed to treat all of Europe as one city with Spain, Germany and France just being different neighbourhoods.

[carabas]

Why isn't my post showing up?
Edit: oh, there it is, two hours after I posted it.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

He actually decided Bruce was alive in Gotham, in Wayne Manor, it was after he threw the vase at the wall when he had his argument with Dick and Damian. He is in the same room, same clothes and same position when he has the revelation that Bruce is alive. He mentions in the narration that it took him days to figure out where to start, and that it has him "researching, poring over everything, cataloging every piece of evidence." He does go to Europe for a reason, following clues, we just haven't seen any of it on panel. This is just the first part of the introductory chapter, and while many things were left unanswered, some hints were given that we'll have future answers.

[Pete26]

17 or 18 doesn't matter, my 16 YO Son is 6 foot 3 inches tall, 3 inches taller than me, so Tim could have had a growth spurt.:smile: They do seem to spring up overnight.
I don't think they are, I am pretty sure Tim should be 18 now, or maybe 17.

He had turned 16 before the One Year Later event, was 13 when he became Robin and has recently said that he has been Robin for 5 years, so all things considered, he should be 17 (if he were rounding up to 5 years) at the youngest, and 18 at the oldest.