Jason Todd as Nightwing?

[marvelprince]

Does anyone remember how during Infinite Crisis when the plan was to kill off Dick and have Jason continue as Nightwing in the monthly title? I remember they even had a few issues of Nightwing with Jason as the lead in can when they decided to stick with Dick (I think that was the writers excuse for the poor quality of Nightwing during OYL. I could be wrong though.

What did everyone think of that idea? Could it work now? With the Nightwing identity currently vacant if Jason had actually gotten some help he could have taken that role and worked on becoming his own (less crazed) hero.

EDIT: Here's a link to the article that confirms the plan was to have Jason Todd as the new Nightwing. http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/22/comic-book-legends-revealed-191/

[Captain Jim]

Personally, I wouldn't be interested in seeing Jason adopt the Nightwing identity. Besides, it's not exactly "vacant" now. Chris Kent is now Nightwing in Action Comics.

[DonC]

It was a bad idea then and it's a bad idea now.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

I'd like for Jason to take on a unique identity of his very own.

[marvelprince]

Personally, I wouldn't be interested in seeing Jason adopt the Nightwing identity. Besides, it's not exactly "vacant" now. Chris Kent is now Nightwing in Action Comics.

Well Chris exists pretty much just in Superman's world at the moment, I dunno, I just don't really look at Chris and think "oh, he's the new Nightwing". He's just someone who happens to share the same name.

[BloodOps]

It was a bad idea then and it's a bad idea now.

Completely agree with you here.

[HopeLantern]

Does anyone remember what issues this occured in? (Jason as Nightwing)? I'm looking for these as back issues...

I don't think Jason should be anywhere near the "Nightwing" identity, by the way, too.

[Jorriss]

I want Jason beat to death with a crowbar, but given past circumstances that seems unlikely.

I want him gone for a while, maybe a year, and to come back with a new attitude. I also don't like how he gives Dick a run for his money when they fight. It was established pretty much everywhere for a long time Dick was trained better, for longer and above all, he better natural ability.

To make a short story, shorter: Go away, come back, ???, profit.

[Tomacatawata]

Does anyone remember how during Infinite Crisis when the plan was to kill off Dick and have Jason continue as Nightwing in the monthly title? I remember they even had a few issues of Nightwing with Jason as the lead in can when they decided to stick with Dick (I think that was the writers excuse for the poor quality of Nightwing during OYL. I could be wrong though.

What did everyone think of that idea? Could it work now? With the Nightwing identity currently vacant if Jason had actually gotten some help he could have taken that role and worked on becoming his own (less crazed) hero.

EDIT: Here's a link to the article that confirms the plan was to have Jason Todd as the new Nightwing. http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2009/01/22/comic-book-legends-revealed-191/

I think Jason = Nightwing would've been interesting. the OYL Nightwing issues were bad because it was a quick patch job by Bruce Jones. Just read OYL Outsiders, sure that was technically Dick but you could tell that all Winick did was change the name Jason to Dick.

[TROUBLEZ]

Isn't Chris Kent a little kid? He's the new Nightwing? SuperboyPrime is the Time Trapper?
It's like musical chairs over at DC.

[Jae Namkyoung]

I'd prefer to see Cassandra Cain as our Nightwing IMHO.

[psycwave]

I'd like for Jason to take on a unique identity of his very own.

I agree with you there.

If not, Jason Todd should have been the new Black Mask. Or stayed as the Red Hood.

[AiyokuSama]

Been there, done that. Not wanting to see it again. I'd much rather see Jason come up with his own identity. Personally, I like kicking butt in his street duds, just being Jason.

[Doc Goblin]

Jason as Nightwing was always a bad idea. He was already well established in his Red Hood identity and it made no sense to suddenly deviate from that.

[Earl of the RCs]

I want Jason beat to death with a crowbar, but given past circumstances that seems unlikely.

Because, as a reader of super-HERO comics you enjoy watching characters you dont like as `people' - someone who as abused and neglected as a child and brutally murdered once before, by the way- being murdered brutally again?

I want him gone for a while, maybe a year, and to come back with a new attitude. I also don't like how he gives Dick a run for his money when they fight. It was established pretty much everywhere for a long time Dick was trained better, for longer and above all, he better natural ability.

Except that Jason spent the three years in between his resurection and his return to Gotham training in martial arts with various teachers around the globe, and that Dick's superior natural ability is as a gymnast not necessarily a fighter of which Jay has another comparible natural ability; the dessire/willingness to fight hard and dirty. If Batman saw Jay as having the potential to be a good soldier, why is it so hard to accept Jay reaching that potential in another manner?

To make a short story, shorter: Go away, come back, ???, profit.

This I agree with, I hope they keep doing it with Jay havign a new identity each time! (as Ive posted elsewhere, I want them to play up the `identity crisis' man angle!)

[WorstThingUS]

It was a bad idea then and it's a bad idea now.

Completely agree with you here.

Me three.

Does anyone remember what issues this occured in? (Jason as Nightwing)? I'm looking for these as back issues...



Jason appeared in the horrific Bruce Jones run, #118-124.

[Jorriss]

Because, as a reader of super-HERO comics you enjoy watching characters you dont like as `people' - someone who as abused and neglected as a child and brutally murdered once before, by the way- being murdered brutally again?
You take it too literally, it was more like 'I wish he wasn't resurrected but beating him to death again isn't a retcon so gotta figure out something.'


Except that Jason spent the three years in between his resurection and his return to Gotham training in martial arts with various teachers around the globe, and that Dick's superior natural ability is as a gymnast not necessarily a fighter of which Jay has another comparible natural ability; the dessire/willingness to fight hard and dirty. If Batman saw Jay as having the potential to be a good soldier, why is it so hard to accept Jay reaching that potential in another manner?
Sort of, yeah Dick was a better gymnast but I thought, although I can't give any direct quotes at this moment, it was meant Dick is better all around. It was regularly stated Jason never had Dick's skills, it seems unlikely they'd be solely referring to acrobatics. Given he has more 'on the job' experience, better natural talents and his training with Bruce, Superman, and pretty much everyone, it's hard to think he's really better trained.

Plus, the best fighters don't always make the best coaches? But maybe that's getting too literal for a comic =/.

But I'll give you this, you got a big advantage if you're willing to fight dirty and just nail someone in the nads.

[Captain Jim]

Isn't Chris Kent a little kid? He's the new Nightwing?

He did a "Bart Allen" and grew up fast. :biggrin:

Does anyone remember what issues this occured in? (Jason as Nightwing)? I'm looking for these as back issues...


Well, at least they should be cheap and easy to locate. They are pretty universally loathed. They have also been collected in trade, btw.

[numberONE]

To me it just wouldn't make sense for Jason to become Nightwing. Nightwing is Dick Grayson and Dick Grayson is Nightwing. It's not like Gotham needs a Nightwing, but (apparently) it needs a Batman.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't think Nightwing is an identity that should be past one, like The Flash, and Robin has.

[marvelprince]

To me it just wouldn't make sense for Jason to become Nightwing. Nightwing is Dick Grayson and Dick Grayson is Nightwing. It's not like Gotham needs a Nightwing, but (apparently) it needs a Batman.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't think Nightwing is an identity that should be past one, like The Flash, and Robin has.

Pretty much every identity in the bat-family has been shared. Its not a stretch

[marvelprince]

I think Jason = Nightwing would've been interesting. the OYL Nightwing issues were bad because it was a quick patch job by Bruce Jones. Just read OYL Outsiders, sure that was technically Dick but you could tell that all Winick did was change the name Jason to Dick.

It was from the Outsiders were I think I took onto the idea of Jason as Nightwing. He fit in what the Outsiders were at that point and it mad for an interesting dynamic

[Jorriss]

Pretty much every identity in the bat-family has been shared. Its not a stretch
Nightwing isn't really the same as the Bat family though, Dick Grayson is part of it, but I don't think of Nightwing as part of it, if that makes sense. He left and made Nightwing distinctly from Batman. Built himself in three different cities, worked with teen titans, outsiders, etc. Nightwing really seems more distinct.

[marvelprince]

Nightwing isn't really the same as the Bat family though, Dick Grayson is part of it, but I don't think of Nightwing as part of it, if that makes sense. He left and made Nightwing distinctly from Batman. Built himself in three different cities, worked with teen titans, outsiders, etc. Nightwing really seems more distinct.

I see your point, but I don't think its enough. No matter what, Dick will always be a part of the Bat-Family, just like Roy will always be a part of team arrow. Whether he goes out and makes himself more of a name, he still has very close ties and most people think of Nightwing as either right before or right after Robin when naming bat-fam members

[Murrocko]

I wonder how things would be right now if Dick had really died during infinite crisis and Jason became Nightwing. He was going to be good again from the looks of how Outsider was OYL.

[Mundungus]

I agree that Dick will always be a part of the Bat-family, but on the other hand. . .

It boils down to brand recognition. Dick reflects in Batman and Robin #1 that he would still much prefer to be Nightwing, but he acknowledges that the Batman identity is necessary to maintain. Damien is too young, reckless, and murderous to be Batman. Tim would make a good Batman but he’s too young/not ready to take the role. Jason is a thug with an identity crisis and tends to go on murdering rampages when he’s upset. Dick assumes the role of Batman because he’s in the best position to make it work.

Criminals have nightmares about Batman. I don’t think anyone stays awake at night afraid that Nightwing might burst through their window.

We might hold a soft spot for Dick Grayson and the importance of him being Nightwing but in terms of story that is irrelevant. Dick as Batman, love it or hate it, best fits the needs of the story being told.

I would think a viable plot point is the criminal network realizing that the Batman wrecking havoc on their operations isn’t the real Batman. Less the physical difference and more the difference of how they operate.

Dick created Nightwing to distance himself from Batman. Even though he knows he best fits the role of Batman in the absence of Bruce, he doesn’t really want to be Batman. Dick’s arc since becoming Nightwing was to be his own kind of hero. So I agree with Joriss about how I see Dick as being both a part of the Bat-family and not being a part of the Bat-family.


To a larger extent there is a tragedy to Batman’s resolve to rid Gotham City of crime. Batman came in and started to clean up the streets but after years of crusading all he really did was position himself as another niche in Gotham City. He’s rigidly attached to the city’s infrastructure. As shown in BFTC it’s hard for Gotham City to operate without Batman there. The Batman identity can never be retired, otherwise the criminals will just flood Gotham again.

[Will44]

Completely agree with you here.

Throw me in the camp that believes making Jason into Nightwing is a bad idea. The character failed when trying to follow Dick's footsteps as Robin, was killed, then came back and failed when trying to follow Dick's footsteps as Nightwing.

The best place for Jason Todd, in my opinion, is the grave. It gives Batman more drive. It was Bruce's biggest failure as Batman.

The next best place for JT is as a villain, for the same reasons. It gives Batman more drive.

[Jorriss]

I see your point, but I don't think its enough. No matter what, Dick will always be a part of the Bat-Family, just like Roy will always be a part of team arrow. Whether he goes out and makes himself more of a name, he still has very close ties and most people think of Nightwing as either right before or right after Robin when naming bat-fam members
Ehhh yeah, you're right, it's more distinct than Robin but it's still Bat family.

[NeoStar9X]

Ugh. That entire Bruce Jones run was just horrible for all characters involved. Are we even acknowledging it anymore? I thought DC just ignored it once it was finished?

[dumbstruck]

Jason Todd should be the only resurrected one who doesn't stay alive at the conclusion of Blackest Night.