Fantastic Four #567 Preview- Doom Fans, Be Happy!

[Magneto Rocks]

...For this has gone in a very different direction to what any of us predicted, but those first few pages? Classic Doom!

http://www.comicsbulletin.com/news/124414692414507.htm

My guess is that the Marquis has trapped Doom in some sort of loop or mind-trap or something, but it's still great to see Doom reacting, even if it is a dream or whatever, in true Doom form!

[Sighphi]

I cant read some of the pages for some reason, so what happens? He fights back it looks like. That doesnt really chage anything.

[Rev. Calibos]

...For this has gone in a very different direction to what any of us predicted, but those first few pages? Classic Doom!

http://www.comicsbulletin.com/news/124414692414507.htm

My guess is that the Marquis has trapped Doom in some sort of loop or mind-trap or something, but it's still great to see Doom reacting, even if it is a dream or whatever, in true Doom form!



Hmmm.....well, this sets my mind a BIT more at ease that's for sure.

'Is that it? Is that the best you can do?'

[Magneto Rocks]

Not to mention the clear disdain for the Marquis- "I bowed before you as a mark of respect but I am no longer your novice, old man." That puts it in a whole new light- Doom's 'bowing' was part of the traditional respect ethos of the 'oldworld' style he loves so much, but still clearly felt he was far superior to him.

[Westgarth J]

I like the idea that Doom essentially becomes pussy-whipped once he loses his greatest foe, but do I spot sly nods to Spider-Girl continuity and Valeria's pre-Loeb origin?

Probably a delusion in Doom's brain as has been said, but it's great to see him stop whining like he does in the Avengers titles and get back to being a vain bastard you should never back into a corner.

[CaptainCanada]

I do like the implication that, for all Doom's pretensions, he's really just driven by envy for Reed's life. His fantasy world is one where Reed's best friend is his best friend, he's shagging Reed's wife, and has all his stuff.

[Nefarius]

Finally,some redeeming qualities.Yet,i have to read it,to make my clear statement about this.

[Grapeweasel]

Millar is leaving.

That's all the happiness I can stand....

[iddypiper]

Loved the preview, it's making me consider picking the book up.

[Iron Maiden]

Millar is leaving.

That's all the happiness I can stand....

Seconded. I don't think his FF will go down as one of the standout runs, compared to others. It seems like it was "doomed" from the start since neither Millar nor Hitch (both for personal reasons) will be doing the final issue of this arc without others stepping in.

I have to also wonder if this world we are seeing (and is anyone else confused by the scene change?) could be the world Valeria von Doom says she came from back in FF #24, volume 3 on the Claremont run? One of my fellow posters on another board got to ask Claremont about her parents and he had said if he had stayed on the FF to finish things out, Valeria von Doom was intended to be a daughter Sue and Reed/Doom had because Reed had to continue the masquerad to keep Doom's generals and his army in line. Yet I think the Marvel website says she is Victor and Sue's daughter. I think that could be the wiki-like fan input though.

My theory is that this baby genius Valeria in the current book might have this accelerated intelligence due to the mystical influences that Doom used during the birthing process. Maybe he planted some of teen Valeria von Doom's knowledge in the baby's mind.

[Doom Answers to No Master]

IM, What did you think of the opening scenes...I have to say I really liked it...Millar shoehorned in this master that doesn't fit in the continuity but then all of the sudden, Doom shows him what he is all about...I will admit, it did bring a smile to my face....so would one assume that the battle is real but then something happens and this weird alternate world happens as a result of it or is even the battle with the MoD in Doom's mind?





Seconded. I don't think his FF will go down as one of the standout runs, compared to others. It seems like it was "doomed" from the start since neither Millar nor Hitch (both for personal reasons) will be doing the final issue of this arc without others stepping in.

I have to also wonder if this world we are seeing (and is anyone else confused by the scene change?) could be the world Valeria von Doom says she came from back in FF #24, volume 3 on the Claremont run? One of my fellow posters on another board got to ask Claremont about her parents and he had said if he had stayed on the FF to finish things out, Valeria von Doom was intended to be a daughter Sue and Reed/Doom had because Reed had to continue the masquerad to keep Doom's generals and his army in line. Yet I think the Marvel website says she is Victor and Sue's daughter. I think that could be the wiki-like fan input though.

My theory is that this baby genius Valeria in the current book might have this accelerated intelligence due to the mystical influences that Doom used during the birthing process. Maybe he planted some of teen Valeria von Doom's knowledge in the baby's mind.

[Iron Maiden]

IM, What did you think of the opening scenes...I have to say I really liked it...Millar shoehorned in this master that doesn't fit in the continuity but then all of the sudden, Doom shows him what he is all about...I will admit, it did bring a smile to my face....so would one assume that the battle is real but then something happens and this weird alternate world happens as a result of it or is even the battle with the MoD in Doom's mind?

Well, that opening scene was sure a quick turnabout. I still have to wonder about the power levels being tossed around. MOD has been shown to be at planet killer level. If Doom can go toe to toe with that, it makes me wonder about that take down of Doom by the Sentry back in Bendis' Mighty Avengers. Oh wait... (*thumps self in head*) it's Sentry. It helps to knock myself senseless when thinking about him too hard. As for that part about the aftermath of a 6 week battle, it's hard to say what that change of scene to another future is all about until next week. It is kind of the trend, as Dead X-Man has pointed out, for Millar/Hitch to have the biggest battle you will never see. :biggrin: Funny that it sort of reminds me of the battle in the "What If: Secret Wars" issue where Doom with the Infinity Gems battled the Celestials for what... 500 years??

It also makes me wonder why Doom never tried to break out of prison on his own and was just sitting around waiting for Clyde until Osborn took care of things. I suppose we could always think that it works better for Doom's diplomatic standing if things appear to have been done somewhat above board without a physical display of force.

[Magneto Rocks]

It also makes me wonder why Doom never tried to break out of prison on his own and was just sitting around waiting for Clyde until Osborn took care of things. I suppose we could always think that it works better for Doom's diplomatic standing if things appear to have been done somewhat above board without a physical display of force.

Not to mention that we have no evidence at all that any of his gadgets or gizmos were working in prison, or that his magic wasn't being restrained.

I think Doom in a cell is not likely to have quite as many tools at his disposal, armour or no, as a Doom who has just triumphantly returned to his kingdom.

[Iron Maiden]

It could be that Sentry drained all the power supply or something...he can do anything. I suppose it just works for the grand scheme of things that Doom was taken out of the playing field so to speak so that Osborn can have his miracle shot. We've always wondered why Latveria was seldom (if ever) shown to be compromised in "Secret Invasion"... because of it was, you know Doom would have fried a few Skrulls himself. Maybe I missed a tie in or two though. I don't go hog wild buying up all that stuff.

[Vic Vega]

I do like the implication that, for all Doom's pretensions, he's really just driven by envy for Reed's life. His fantasy world is one where Reed's best friend is his best friend, he's shagging Reed's wife, and has all his stuff.

Yes.

It's a very clever bit.

I mean, Reed gets to be on T.V., is a celebrated hero, has a hot wife and cute kids. And is SMARTER than Doom.

All Doom has is a country full of scared followers and a castle full of robots.

He had to go back to Athurian times to find somebody willing to have sex with him.:biggrin:

Doom in his subconsious heart of hearts KNOWS that his life sucks and has chosen to blame Reed for it.Out of jealousy.

[Alan2099]

And is SMARTER than Doom.
This I disagree with. I think Doom is the smarter of the two and defintly more versitile, but due to his ego he's sloppier. While Reed examins everything in depth to find any flaw or improvements that can be made, there simply can't be any flaws in anything Dr. Doom does because he is DOOM!

[Kevinroc]

This I disagree with. I think Doom is the smarter of the two and defintly more versitile, but due to his ego he's sloppier. While Reed examins everything in depth to find any flaw or improvements that can be made, there simply can't be any flaws in anything Dr. Doom does because he is DOOM!

No, Reed is smarter than Doom and Doom can't stand to admit it.

There are also others who know more than Doom in specific fields (like Bruce Banner knows more about gamma radiation than Doom) but that is because Doom is sort of a jack of all trades when it comes to knowledge.

[Vic Vega]

This I disagree with. I think Doom is the smarter of the two and defintly more versitile, but due to his ego he's sloppier. While Reed examins everything in depth to find any flaw or improvements that can be made, there simply can't be any flaws in anything Dr. Doom does because he is DOOM!

Doom understands Magic and Reed does not.

Unfortunately for Doom his ego prevents him from being great in that area(since to get mystic power to have to humble yourself before interdimentional whatits).

Doom knows just enough Magic to "cheat" on his science and make his machines work the way he wants them to work.

Doom attempted to use a machine to contact his dead mother and it blows up in his face.

Years later, Reed builds something similar to find Ben Grimms soul and it works just fine. :biggrin:

[Iron Maiden]

Doom understands Magic and Reed does not.

Unfortunately for Doom his ego prevents him from being great in that area(since to get mystic power to have to humble yourself before interdimentional whatits).

Doom knows just enough Magic to "cheat" on his science and make his machines work the way he wants them to work.:

Doom has been known to blend the two disciplines and I think that makes him one up on Reed. For example, when Doom first shows up in FF#5, he has a functioning time machine that astonishes Reed because he didn't come up with one first.

As to magic, Doc Strange just admitted something very significant here...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/Comics%202009/StrangetalksaboutDoomNA51.jpg



Doom understands Magic and Reed does not.

Doom attempted to use a machine to contact his dead mother and it blows up in his face.

Years later, Reed builds something similar to find Ben Grimms soul and it works just fine. :biggrin:

Not something Reed created... he used Victor's plans and switched it to point towards Heaven instead of Hell.

In Books of Doom (and in other stories), it shows how the machine did work and he was unsuccessful in rescuing his mother using science. He ended up teaming with Doctor Strange and used magic.

[Vic Vega]

Doom has been known to blend the two disciplines and I think that makes him one up on Reed. For example, when Doom first shows up in FF#5, he has a functioning time machine that astonishes Reed because he didn't come up with one first.

As to magic, Doc Strange just admitted something very significant here...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/Comics%202009/StrangetalksaboutDoomNA51.jpg





Not something Reed created... he used Victor's plans and switched it to point towards Heaven instead of Hell.

In Books of Doom (and in other stories), it shows how the machine did work and he was unsuccessful in rescuing his mother using science. He ended up teaming with Doctor Strange and used magic.

Minor correction: We learn that Doom's machine was ALWAYS aimed towards heaven. As Reed states "who would look thier dead mom in hell?

Yeah, I know: somebody who REALLY hated thier mom.:tongue: But Doom loved his mommy.

[Iron Maiden]

I know that's what Waid thought anyway. But it has been shown that even as a child, Victor always knew that his mother was condemned to Hell. When we first learn how Reed and Victor knew each other, Reed only knows that he dabbled in those nasty ol' "forbidden experiments" and things blew up on him. The FF annual #2 clarifies things a bit and we see him visiting her unmarked grave with Boris. Obviously, she is not buried in hallowed ground. Gerry Conway introduced the further details to the backstory and the local villagers gossip that she was a witch and died unconfessed. Once again, that would mean her soul would not enter Heaven.

[celticguy]

No, Reed is smarter than Doom and Doom can't stand to admit it.

There are also others who know more than Doom in specific fields (like Bruce Banner knows more about gamma radiation than Doom) but that is because Doom is sort of a jack of all trades when it comes to knowledge.

Yeah Reed is smarter in science anyway, Reed could probably pass him in knowledge of magic,although maybe not the practice of magic, if he chose to.

Reed has been shown he can master any field he tries but his interest are so wide he only seems to go as far as to solve the problem in front of him. That is why he defers to people like Banner with radiation or Pym in bio-chem.

Doom the same but as pointed out his ego gets in the way.

[Quantum_Singularity]

I've always felt that Doom is every bit as smart, if not smarter than Reed. It's just that his massive personality defects get in his way.

Someone mentioned above, Doom probably doesn't want to learn from others, or check his work against other scientists, because that might be an admission that someone else's intellect was superior to his. He's Doom, so therefore he's right.

Time and again, Doom's ego has been the only thing that has prevented his total victory. If not for that, Doom would most likely be running the show in the Marvel U.

[stillanerd]

Well, I got to say I was worried there for a bit, but it looks like Mr. Millar redeemed himself. Granted, there's still the issue of whether Doom would even have a master in the first place, but even so--what we saw here is the definite Doom on display. Still, it is a bit jarring that we suddenly jump to "five years later" in which we apparently see Doom's fantasy come true while being reformed at the same time.

However, I have a distinct feeling this could prove to be another parallel universe and that the Marquis of Death and his Doom-like apprentice somehow survived and made their way over to the real 616 universe and that the Doom from the "utopia" dimension we see here goes into the 616 to stop them once again. Likewise that the dead Watcher, since we know he's from an alternate universe, probably came from the same world as the heroic Doom and died during the war between that dimensions heroes and the Marquis.

Plus, how much you folks want to bet that the Marquis will turn out to be another version of Doom from an alternate universe, as well as his Doom like apprentice. After all, the only conceivable way Doom would ever be an apprentice and call anyone "master" would be himself.

[Magneto Rocks]

I think if Doom's smarter than Reed, it defies the point of his character just a little bit. Because I think the absoloute key to Doom and his hatred of the FF is that he knows Reed is smarter. He knows it. he would never, ever admit it to anyone, he would deny it vociferously, and he has even managed to convince himself on the surface that it's not true, but very, very deep down, he knows damn well that Reed is smarter than him and he absoloutely cannot stand it.

[drwho]

yeah much better but the whole idea is just blehh. I mean whats the point of introducing these masters for in this storyline. Just for doom to turn on them after he had been whipped? Is clyde the one getting choked there?

[CaptainCanada]

Yeah, Reed is smarter, if even only slightly (though, when you get as high as these guys function, those sorts of minimal distinctions become really big).

And Doom gets this; he understood it, if only subconsciously, in college, and hence he began his really one-sided rivalry with Reed Richards to prove that he was, in fact, the smartest (a subject Reed himself could have cared less about). That's why he didn't accept Reed's help, because that would acknowledge that Reed knew something he didn't.

Regarding the magic issue, that's more of an issue of temperament than of intelligence; Reed's scientific outlook isn't suited to do advanced magics (Doom's wasn't either, until recently; he cheated his way though Triumph and Torment, a story that has been chronically misinterpreted ever since).

[J.R. LeMar]

I think if Doom's smarter than Reed, it defies the point of his character just a little bit. Because I think the absoloute key to Doom and his hatred of the FF is that he knows Reed is smarter. He knows it. he would never, ever admit it to anyone, he would deny it vociferously, and he has even managed to convince himself on the surface that it's not true, but very, very deep down, he knows damn well that Reed is smarter than him and he absoloutely cannot stand it.

That makes sense, though I can also see the value in the other interpretation, that Doom really is smarter, but is so egocentric that he sabotages himself, without realizing it. I dunno. It reminds me of Morrison's portrayal of Lex Luthor in All Star Superman. Lex always insists that if it weren't for Superman he would the world's greatest champion. But, really, it seemed like he was just using Superman as an excuse to not really try to be the best, Because if he did, then he might fail, and his ego wouldn't be able to handle that. So focusing all of his hatred on Superman is the perfect way for him to never have to attempt to live up to his full potential.

[Sighphi]

Doom has been known to blend the two disciplines and I think that makes him one up on Reed. For example, when Doom first shows up in FF#5, he has a functioning time machine that astonishes Reed because he didn't come up with one first.

Wasnt Doom's first Time Machine NOT his?
He recreated it or used some one else plans if i remember correctly.

Wait.... he got it from his MASTER!?!?!?!??!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
Continuity fits!!!

[Iron Maiden]

Wasnt Doom's first Time Machine NOT his?
He recreated it or used some one else plans if i remember correctly.

Wait.... he got it from his MASTER!?!?!?!??!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
Continuity fits!!!

No, even Reed admitted he created and took one version out of Doom's original base of operations in a castle in upstate New York. If anything, Reed used his model to later create one of his own.

Now there was a story, much later in Byrne's run, where Reed goes back to his father Nathaniel's home in California and he finds a time platform similar to Doom's locked away in his father's lab. Byrne never intimated that Doom "copied" it since at that point Doom never met Reed's father. More likely that the two developed their tech independantly of each other without knowing of each other's work.

[Iron Maiden]

Regarding the magic issue, that's more of an issue of temperament than of intelligence; Reed's scientific outlook isn't suited to do advanced magics (Doom's wasn't either, until recently; he cheated his way though Triumph and Torment, a story that has been chronically misinterpreted ever since).

Not sure where you get the iea that Doom wasn't suited to advanced magics until recently since he'd been studying the mystic arts, on and off, at an much early age than say Stephen Strange. Compared to Reed, Doom was always prepared to pursue both paths of study. Even before Triumph and Torment, he was battling the demons of the netherworld as part of the bargain at coming to a draw each time. His whole relationship with Morgan Le Fey started as part of that quest to advance his knowledge in sorcery and magic. In an old Marvel Team-Up Story, the Dark Rider sensed his latent mystical talents.

Doom comes to the contest because he hears the summons of the Vishanti, otherwise he would not have been there. The Aged Genghis says it is his pact with the Vishanti to summon the world's greatest mystics once every 100 years for the contest. Once again, if Doom didn't qualify than he wouldn't have been summoned. As for the cheating, this is where it is open to interpretation. Prior to this panel, one of the mystics objects to the trappings of Western technology. Admitting that he is not as adept as the others, Doom also agrees to shut down his force field and removes his gauntlets so that he cannot use any offensive weapons. This is a agreed as acceptable. Later we see him learning and studying on the fly to see how others fare in the contest.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/MB%20comic%20Scans/gn_triumph_p19A.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/MB%20comic%20Scans/gn_triump_p21B.jpg

Since it is the Vishanti that stage the contest and created all the challenges, it appears that they do not block the use of his systems to study the techniques of other mystics. He even uses the Crimson Bands of Cytorrak against Strange, but Strange is skilled enough to neutralize that move.

So at the most, we have Doom picking up some skills from others during the fight and using them. His sensors and guidance system helps him cast the spells that evade the other contestants that the Vishanti use against Strange and himself. Technology does not come into play when he uses his will to overcome being overpowered by those entranced by the powers of the Crystal. He met the condition set by the Vishanti in that he evaded the power of the Crystal that entranced the rest of the contestants. So the Aged Genghis, acting for the Vishanti, declares him a legitimate survivor of the Challenge.

[avenging son]

one question:
previous issue Reed finds dead watcher from another dimension (I assume it is the one rulk killed).

this issue jumps 5 years ahead.

so is all this other dimensional and 5 years later stuff going to tie into the whole "red hulk can beat anyone" mess?

[Finganforn]

Rulk didnt kill anything, he just punched the watcher in the face (who was there for no real reason, since that event was not really that important to the universe as it turned out, nor we know why the hell was him talkative and visible), and then that Watcher simply "disappeared" from the book, no one even looked at him and asked if he was okay, needed help, or wtf was he doing down on earth since he can watch those more than common fights from his house.

[agrich]

I'm sure other writers will observe the same strict adherence to Loeb's continuity that he always exhibits with regard to theirs.

[Hindsight lad]

I don't know about wisdom, but I always thought that Reed in his way is just as arrogant as Doom. While Doom blew up a lab and scarred his face in his failed experiment, Reed destroyed the lives of his best friends. Reed didn't listen to Ben's compalints that the ship had inadequate shielding or that there was a cosmic ray storm. Ben was correct (which he never gets credit for, and I'm surprised he doesn't hit Reed with "I told you so" on a regular basis), but he was the one to shoulder most of the burden of the decision. Reed never rechecked his math to account for cosmic rays; he had to beet those Commies.

I love the 60s: I'd rather risk possible death in space or life in federal prison (for stealing a rocket) than have a pretty blonde think I'm a coward.

Hindsight lad

[Nefarius]

I don't know about wisdom, but I always thought that Reed in his way is just as arrogant as Doom. While Doom blew up a lab and scarred his face in his failed experiment, Reed destroyed the lives of his best friends. Reed didn't listen to Ben's compalints that the ship had inadequate shielding or that there was a cosmic ray storm. Ben was correct (which he never gets credit for, and I'm surprised he doesn't hit Reed with "I told you so" on a regular basis), but he was the one to shoulder most of the burden of the decision. Reed never rechecked his math to account for cosmic rays; he had to beet those Commies.

I love the 60s: I'd rather risk possible death in space or life in federal prison (for stealing a rocket) than have a pretty blonde think I'm a coward.

Nice post.Reed sometimes can be as stubborn and arrogant as Doom,but he is enough clever to realise that he can't know everything.Doom would prefer to die than accept that he's imperfect in a scientific field.

[Sighphi]

No, even Reed admitted he created and took one version out of Doom's original base of operations in a castle in upstate New York. If anything, Reed used his model to later create one of his own.

Now there was a story, much later in Byrne's run, where Reed goes back to his father Nathaniel's home in California and he finds a time platform similar to Doom's locked away in his father's lab. Byrne never intimated that Doom "copied" it since at that point Doom never met Reed's father. More likely that the two developed their tech independantly of each other without knowing of each other's work.

oh right, sorry. I just quickly skimmed through his first appearance and he says he did it himself. And Reed even mentions in his first appearance that Doom was screwing around searching for Black Magic and Sorcery after he left the US.

[arp2008]

WTF? That preview didn't make sense at all. The entire MoD conflicte is glossed over with a few dialogue boxes in order to give a view of the aftermath which we all won't come to fruition anyway. What was the point it of that besides wasting valuable space that could otherwise be dedicated to developing the history behind the MoD and Doon relationship in more detail? I wish I didn't click on those images for now my excitement for the remainder of the arc is as nonexitstent as those who're waiting eagerly for Millar's departure. With storytelling like this that the disdain they have for his work is very undertstandable.

[CyberCoyote]

WTF? That preview didn't make sense at all. The entire MoD conflicte is glossed over with a few dialogue boxes in order to give a view of the aftermath which we all won't come to fruition anyway. What was the point it of that besides wasting valuable space that could otherwise be dedicated to developing the history behind the MoD and Doon relationship in more detail? I wish I didn't click on those images for now my excitement for the remainder of the arc is as nonexitstent as those who're waiting eagerly for Millar's departure. With storytelling like this that the disdain they have for his work is very undertstandable.

Well, I think there's still an issue or two to go, you wouldn't want the WHOLE story spilled out that fast, would you (I would). I'm sure this 5 years scene is just a trick. As IM pointed out.. beaten by Sentry, beaten by the New Defantasticforcenders.. but against a guy that waves his hands in the air and destroys planets he's got game. Sure he's had his whole life to prepare for it, but at the same time if he's got an ace up his sleeve that takes out a threat which is apparently greater than any other threat the Universe ever had (Millar sure Embiggins the power levels) I'm glad he finally remembered it after all those embarrassing losses. :tongue:

[arp2008]

Well, I think there's still an issue or two to go, you wouldn't want the WHOLE story spilled out that fast, would you (I would). I'm sure this 5 years scene is just a trick. As IM pointed out.. beaten by Sentry, beaten by the New Defantasticforcenders.. but against a guy that waves his hands in the air and destroys planets he's got game. Sure he's had his whole life to prepare for it, but at the same time if he's got an ace up his sleeve that takes out a threat which is apparently greater than any other threat the Universe ever had (Millar sure Embiggins the power levels) I'm glad he finally remembered it after all those embarrassing losses. :tongue: He's already ruined half this weeks issue with something completely unnecessary. I have a feeling he won't be able to make sence of it nor give a satisfying conclusion in two issues.

[Omega Alpha]

Now there was a story, much later in Byrne's run, where Reed goes back to his father Nathaniel's home in California and he finds a time platform similar to Doom's locked away in his father's lab. Byrne never intimated that Doom "copied" it since at that point Doom never met Reed's father. More likely that the two developed their tech independantly of each other without knowing of each other's work.

Reed's father is from the future, his time-machine was created obviously much later than Doom's.

[skrullover]

I do like the implication that, for all Doom's pretensions, he's really just driven by envy for Reed's life. His fantasy world is one where Reed's best friend is his best friend, he's shagging Reed's wife, and has all his stuff.


This was my first thought. Then again, wouldn't all this stuff be Doom's very version of hell. I think this outcome for Doom is him really bitching out. Nevermind the kneeling. He's Doom, and not Mr. Husband/Father/Best Friend.

Welcome back to Claremont's mind people. I think Millar bows to him. Even though I'm glad we will finalyl get ALL those hanging questions from Claremont's run answered.