Everything that was Wrong with the early 90's...

[K-DoG7p7]

.. can be summed up in one picture


http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/25807/618527-000dr9.jpg

[dumbstruck]

Uhhhh......ok.

[K-DoG7p7]

Uhhhh......ok.

do you see who that is?
let me give you a hint.. shes a queen of an island..

[Christopher Cross Is God]

do you see who that is?
let me give you a hint.. shes a queen of an island..

And what a queen Hippolyta was!

That's early Deodato art, back when he was a bit of a Jim Lee clone.

[Thok]

Needs more pouches.

[K-DoG7p7]

And what a queen Hippolyta was!

That's early Deodato art, back when he was a bit of a Jim Lee clone.

look at the first panel! her boobs are... LOOK!

[dumbstruck]

do you see who that is?
let me give you a hint.. shes a queen of an island..


I know who it is. If I'm not mistaken it's from/around the storyline "The Contest" in which Artemis was introduced. So what?

[dumbstruck]

look at the first panel! her boobs are... LOOK!


Still, I fail to see how this is indicative of everything that was wrong with 90's comics. I would think artwork from a certain creator with the initials R.L. would better serve your point.

[Sean Walsh]

look at the first panel! her boobs are... LOOK!

You say that like we haven't. :wink: :tongue:

I've seen porn stars with boobs like that. Implants can be a blessing and a curse.

......insert another comment regarding boobs here, because I've fulfilled my quota.

[KYLeo71]

That's Hippolyta?! Geez, now I'm kinda glad I was out of comics for 20 years and missed that. Of course, if this is indicative of where comics ended up during my long sabatical, I think I can understand why I checked out during the downswing. That warrents a "Merciful Minerva!"

[dumbstruck]

That's Hippolyta?! Geez, now I'm kinda glad I was out of comics for 20 years and missed that. Of course, if this is indicative of where comics ended up during my long sabatical, I think I can understand why I checked out during the downswing. That warrents a "Merciful Minerva!"

Remember, of course, this is Hippolyta as depicted by one artist only. An artist who still has a reputation for drawing overly-sexed women.

[Darrell D.]

The Messner-Loebs/Deodato run in Wonder Woman was actually good.
If you had posted a Silver Sable diefold, embossed cover, or Extreme Justice, I would be more inclined to agree with you.

[Darrell D.]

And what a queen Hippolyta was!

That's early Deodato art, back when he was a bit of a Jim Lee clone.

Almost everyone breaking into the big two at that time was somewhat of a Jim Lee clone.

[JohnnyAngel77]

look at the first panel! her boobs are... LOOK!

Yeah, I'm not sure boobs should EVER be that far apart. You could park a car between them.

[Superbeast]

This has nothing on Superman with a beard and massive Liefeldian guns.

[Darrell D.]

This has nothing on Superman with a beard and massive Liefeldian guns.

Right, dig up some of the Elseworlds annuals DC put out in the 90s. The art in most of those will make your eyes bleed.

[Superbeast]

Right, dig up some of the Elseworlds annuals DC put out in the 90s. The art in most of those will make your eyes bleed.
This is the one. Absolutely cracked out.

http://i17.tinypic.com/4kjitmo.jpg

[Lorendiac]

Still, I fail to see how this is indicative of everything that was wrong with 90's comics. I would think artwork from a certain creator with the initials R.L. would better serve your point.

That's a rather harsh thing to say about Ron Lim -- I often enjoyed his work! :tongue:

[KYLeo71]

What the...?

Geez, I'm becoming more and more glad that my general attitude is that nothing that happened in the DCU universe in the last 20 years actually happened unless I read something in a current issue that says that it did. Yep. As far as I'm concerned, the last 20 years or so (heck, maybe even 22) never happened.

[carabas]

http://i17.tinypic.com/4kjitmo.jpgProbably a complete coincidence, but Batman did indeed capture a god-killing gun on his final case.

[Darrell D.]

This is the one. Absolutely cracked out.

http://i17.tinypic.com/4kjitmo.jpg

That is one big ass gun.
The art for the Superboy and Justice League of America Elseworlds Annuals were also god awful. I mean, like doodles I used to draw in my notebook when I was supposed to be paying attention in Government class horrible.

[dumbstruck]

This is the one. Absolutely cracked out.

http://i17.tinypic.com/4kjitmo.jpg

I think this is a misleading example. It was a Superman elseworlds sequel-of-sorts to a Kamandi elseworlds.

[Darrell D.]

One of my favorite examples of bad art in the 90s was in X-men.
Scott Summers, in his civilian clothes, consisting of a shirt and a pair of jeans. The jeans were so tight, you could see the muscle definition of his legs.
Unstable molecules, maybe?

[dancj]

This is the one. Absolutely cracked out.

http://i17.tinypic.com/4kjitmo.jpg
I like the art in that. IIRC the story wasn't so good, but the art is great.

[DeTroyes]

Still, I fail to see how this is indicative of everything that was wrong with 90's comics. I would think artwork from a certain creator with the initials R.L. would better serve your point.

Roy Lichtenstein did comics work in the 1990s?

I thought he'd long since moved into abstract sculpture by then.

:wink:

[Christopher Cross Is God]

That's Hippolyta?! Geez, now I'm kinda glad I was out of comics for 20 years and missed that. Of course, if this is indicative of where comics ended up during my long sabatical, I think I can understand why I checked out during the downswing. That warrents a "Merciful Minerva!"


Heh, the artwork from WW posted is pretty tame compared to a lot of what was going on in the series. All the amazons had thong outfits, it was amazing.


The Messner-Loebs/Deodato run in Wonder Woman was actually good.

No, it was pretty bad, and fairly indicative of what was wrong with 90's comics, in general.

There were some ideas in the series which had potential, but the execution was horrid......Especially when Artemis became WW and fought such stalwart villains like The Chauvanist.



Almost everyone breaking into the big two at that time was somewhat of a Jim Lee clone.

Image clones would be more precise.....Although the main two whose styles were being imitated were Lee & Leifeld.

[GHalecki]

Yeah, I'm not sure boobs should EVER be that far apart. You could park a car between them.

A car isn't what I was thinking should be parked there...

But seriously, the 90's also produced some very exceptional stuff, including New Warriors, Quasar, Nova, Thunderstrike, Byrne's Namor (the best take on that charachter since the golden age), Byrne's Wonder Woman, and I am sure that if it wasn't 2 AM I could think of a handful more.

ANd chalk me up for one who loved Loebs' Flash run as well.

[dupersuper]

A car isn't what I was thinking should be parked there...

But seriously, the 90's also produced some very exceptional stuff, including New Warriors, Quasar, Nova, Thunderstrike, Byrne's Namor (the best take on that charachter since the golden age), Byrne's Wonder Woman, and I am sure that if it wasn't 2 AM I could think of a handful more.

ANd chalk me up for one who loved Loebs' Flash run as well.

Don't forget Waids Flash, most of the early Legends of the Dark Knight issues, Kingdom Come, Marvels, Sterns and Busieks Avengers run, Davids Supergirl, Aquaman and Hulk runs, Sandman, Arkham Asylum, Morrisons Animal Man, Paradox Press, the start of Vertigo, etc., etc......you can find crap no matter what era you look in. I'm biased though; it was the triangle era Superman books that got me collecting religiously in mid 1990.

[Pól Rua]

A car isn't what I was thinking should be parked there...

But seriously, the 90's also produced some very exceptional stuff, including New Warriors, Quasar, Nova, Thunderstrike, Byrne's Namor (the best take on that charachter since the golden age), Byrne's Wonder Woman, and I am sure that if it wasn't 2 AM I could think of a handful more.

ANd chalk me up for one who loved Loebs' Flash run as well.

You keep using that word... I don't think it means what you think it means...

[dumbstruck]

You keep using that word... I don't think it means what you think it means...

I thought that was "Inconceivable!"

[GHalecki]

You would not say that any of these, Byrne's Wonder Woman or Namor, Peter David's Hulk, Necieza's New Warriors, were at all exceptional?

[Jaded Devil]

I actually preferred that era of Wonder Woman to anything that's come since then.

The 90s were a good time for Aquaman, Flash, and GL, too (and not a "Kyle vs. Hal" thing--I just can't stand most of how the GL universe has shaped up since then).

[d newton]

No, it was pretty bad, and fairly indicative of what was wrong with 90's comics, in general.

There were some ideas in the series which had potential, but the execution was horrid......Especially when Artemis became WW and fought such stalwart villains like The Chauvanist.
So why did DC trade those issues then? :tongue:

[Superbeast]

I think this is a misleading example. It was a Superman elseworlds sequel-of-sorts to a Kamandi elseworlds.

Superman looking like Santa on steroids with a gun the size of Detroit is a misleading example of the crap that went on in the 90s? Are you serious? You're actually defending this piece of crap?

[Lorendiac]

No, it was pretty bad, and fairly indicative of what was wrong with 90's comics, in general.

There were some ideas in the series which had potential, but the execution was horrid......Especially when Artemis became WW and fought such stalwart villains like The Chauvanist.

So why did DC trade those issues then? :tongue:

They put those Artemis-as-WW issues in a TPB in an effort to make some extra money, of course! Publishing companies aren't in business for their health, after all! :wink:

But does the fact that they published a TPB collection really prove anything about whether or not the writing was "horrid"?

[dumbstruck]

Superman looking like Santa on steroids with a gun the size of Detroit is a misleading example of the crap that went on in the 90s? Are you serious? You're actually defending this piece of crap?


I'm not defending it. I'm saying this isn't a good example since it was an elseworlds title. Therefore Superman could look like Snow White. To say this is an example of the 90's is wrong. You'd be better to use an example of 90's-ness from a regular series. Be it from DC, Marvel, Image or Dark Horse. If this had been part of a regular series Superman title, then I would agree with you. To use what is basically an imaginary story as an example is misleading and not indicative of the majority of work put out by DC during that decade.

[carabas]

Superman looking like Santa on steroids with a gun the size of Detroit is a misleading example of the crap that went on in the 90s? Are you serious? You're actually defending this piece of crap?That image and that gun look to me as if the writer and artist were severaly trying to mock the worst Liefeldian excesses the nineties.

[Wilder Midnight]

One of my favorite examples of bad art in the 90s was in X-men.
Scott Summers, in his civilian clothes, consisting of a shirt and a pair of jeans. The jeans were so tight, you could see the muscle definition of his legs.
Unstable molecules, maybe?

maybe he was just happy to see you?

:P

.. can be summed up in one picture


http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/25807/618527-000dr9.jpg



i dunno...when i go back and take a look at early golden age wonder woman stories done by her creator himself the amazons were decked out in all sorts of scanty fetish gear with bustiers pointing up and out and in all sorts of directions every which way.

what should the queen of the amazons be wearing anyway?

please tell me it has nothing to do with mullets.

[Slaughter]

This is the one. Absolutely cracked out.

http://i17.tinypic.com/4kjitmo.jpg

That's what I call SUPER-DAKKA!!

[GHalecki]

maybe he was just happy to see you?

:P
i dunno...when i go back and take a look at early golden age wonder woman stories done by her creator himself the amazons were decked out in all sorts of scanty fetish gear with bustiers pointing up and out and in all sorts of directions every which way.

what should the queen of the amazons be wearing anyway?

please tell me it has nothing to do with mullets.

Well, considering all of the wierd stuff in that guy's personal life, it is hardly a wonder that the books were that way.

[dancj]

Superman looking like Santa on steroids with a gun the size of Detroit is a misleading example of the crap that went on in the 90s? Are you serious? You're actually defending this piece of crap?
I'll defend it. That art's great - and I hate the typical 90's art.

[Darrell D.]

Heh, the artwork from WW posted is pretty tame compared to a lot of what was going on in the series. All the amazons had thong outfits, it was amazing.
IT WAS EXXXTREME!




No, it was pretty bad, and fairly indicative of what was wrong with 90's comics, in general.
Ehh, I guess I should amend and say I liked it. The art was fairly spotty, however, and Messner-Loebs' writing was decent, but nowhere near his best effort. I still liked it better than the Perez run, though.

There were some ideas in the series which had potential, but the execution was horrid......Especially when Artemis became WW and fought such stalwart villains like The Chauvanist.
To be fair, this was on the heels of the Batman/Superman/Green Lantern replacements. Maybe DC was trying to get sales up for the title.





Image clones would be more precise.....Although the main two whose styles were being imitated were Lee & Leifeld.
I remember reading X-men by Andy Kubert-or was it Adam?- and he definitely decided to do a Jim Lee style.
The problem with the rest of the clones is that they learned to draw from comics, and bad comics at that. Never a good idea.

[Superbeast]

I'm not defending it. I'm saying this isn't a good example since it was an elseworlds title. Therefore Superman could look like Snow White. To say this is an example of the 90's is wrong. You'd be better to use an example of 90's-ness from a regular series. Be it from DC, Marvel, Image or Dark Horse. If this had been part of a regular series Superman title, then I would agree with you. To use what is basically an imaginary story as an example is misleading and not indicative of the majority of work put out by DC during that decade.

All stories are imaginary. :rolleyes:

[dumbstruck]

All stories are imaginary. :rolleyes:


Well duh.....:rolleyes:
You know what I mean.

[VeganWithaYoYo]

Superman looking like Santa on steroids with a gun the size of Detroit is a misleading example of the crap that went on in the 90s? Are you serious? You're actually defending this piece of crap?

I just read the comic it's from, Superman: Earth's End, and the comic it was a sequel to, Kamandi: Earth's End. While the Superman comic was awful, the Kamandi series makes Superman: Earth's End look like Watchmen. Reading S:EE seemed relatively palatable afterwards. I wish I was kidding.

[Utility Belt]

This has nothing on Superman with a beard and massive Liefeldian guns.

Liefeldian?? LOL! I didn't know Liefeld's infamy had made him an adjective.
And I agree, what I hated about 90's character design was the huge guns, pointless pouches and padding/body armor as well as belts worn around the thighs (someone please explain that one to me) which looked like garter belts. As for the picture in the original post, scantily clad women with huge breasts had been around from way before the 90's.

[Superbeast]

Well duh.....:rolleyes:
You know what I mean.

I actually don't. It doesn't count because while it was produced in the 90s, because it's not in DC's main continuity it is somehow invalid? I don't think so. Guns the size of winnebagos is very 90s. Showing aged versions of characters that are somehow built like young bodybuilders is very 90s. As such the example stands.

[dumbstruck]

I actually don't. It doesn't count because while it was produced in the 90s, because it's not in DC's main continuity it is somehow invalid? I don't think so. Guns the size of winnebagos is very 90s. Showing aged versions of characters that are somehow built like young bodybuilders is very 90s. As such the example stands.

By "imaginary story", one means outside of regular continuity, which you know very well based on your response.

As I said before, I'd agree with that assessment provided it was somehow a part of regular continuity. But since it's an elseworlds, Superman could look any way the artist could possibly want and it would have no bearing on the general look of that particular era. If you're going to judge an entire era of comics, you need to use an example that is more than a one issue "imaginary story". If you had said Az-Bats was indicative of what was wrong with early 90's comic art, I'd probably have to agree with that. It was a major storyline involving a major character in-continuity, that virtually hits all the same reasons that have been quoted. Not only did he have the 90's Liefeldian look, but it was part of the 90's trend of major character shake-ups/replacements.

[Superbeast]

By "imaginary story", one means outside of regular continuity, which you know very well based on your response.

As I said before, I'd agree with that assessment provided it was somehow a part of regular continuity. But since it's an elseworlds, Superman could look any way the artist could possibly want and it would have no bearing on the general look of that particular era. If you're going to judge an entire era of comics, you need to use an example that is more than a one issue "imaginary story". If you had said Az-Bats was indicative of what was wrong with early 90's comic art, I'd probably have to agree with that. It was a major storyline involving a major character in-continuity, that virtually hits all the same reasons that have been quoted. Not only did he have the 90's Liefeldian look, but it was part of the 90's trend of major character shake-ups/replacements.

I'm sorry I am not aware of rules you are making up as you go along. That's one of the problems of not being psychic when dealing with people looking to argue semantics for no real reason. Are there any other rules of submission that I am unaware of the original poster didn't specify that you want to implement for the sake of it? Maybe no Milestone heroes and only characters who have names that begin with R?

Drop it already. Seriously. It's ridiculous.

[Darrell D.]

By "imaginary story", one means outside of regular continuity, which you know very well based on your response.

As I said before, I'd agree with that assessment provided it was somehow a part of regular continuity. But since it's an elseworlds, Superman could look any way the artist could possibly want and it would have no bearing on the general look of that particular era. If you're going to judge an entire era of comics, you need to use an example that is more than a one issue "imaginary story". If you had said Az-Bats was indicative of what was wrong with early 90's comic art, I'd probably have to agree with that. It was a major storyline involving a major character in-continuity, that virtually hits all the same reasons that have been quoted. Not only did he have the 90's Liefeldian look, but it was part of the 90's trend of major character shake-ups/replacements.

The art was horrid. It was everything that was wrong with the 90s style art. It has nothing to do with 'imaginary' stories. A badly drawn Superman with a huge gun is different from a well-drawn Superman with a huge gun.

[dumbstruck]

I'm sorry I am not aware of rules you are making up as you go along. That's one of the problems of not being psychic when dealing with people looking to argue semantics for no real reason. Are there any other rules of submission that I am unaware of the original poster didn't specify that you want to implement for the sake of it? Maybe no Milestone heroes and only characters who have names that begin with R?

:rolleyes:

Drop it already. Seriously. It's ridiculous.
Oh the irony.



What's ridiculous is holding up one comic that many probably haven't even heard of and using it as an example to state some kind of point about an entire era of comics.

Meh. Whatever. Neither one of us is going to convince the other.

[xnef1025]

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/25807/618527-000dr9.jpg

Actually, it's not the boobs that are ridiculous... although, what exactly is that top attached to. Is there some string or something we can see, or duct tape?... The true assault to anatomy is her waist. I mean, look at that... it's almost the same width as her neck.... WTF? If you punched her in the stomach she'd break in half.

[Christopher Cross Is God]

IT WAS EXXXTREME!


To be fair, this was on the heels of the Batman/Superman/Green Lantern replacements. Maybe DC was trying to get sales up for the title.



I didn't have a problem with Artemis becoming WW....That's one of the spots where I say the storyline had potential (although rather unoriginal, considering all the replacements going on in DC at the time), but the execution was horrid.

And after Artemis became WW, she had one of the most ridiculous villains galleries I've seen.

[FortKnox]

Nothing represents bad 90s costumes, at least for the women, like this. Can you say stripper?

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/501318-invisible_woman_drew_johnson01_super.jpg

[carabas]

Kind of puts me on mind of Jim Lee's Huntress 'costume'.

[Timoteo]

The worst thng about the 90's to me was the replacement of most the main heroes (Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, Thor, Iron Man, Spider-Man, and various others) with extreme or darker versions trying to match the popularity of Wolverine, Punisher, Ghost Rider etc.

[Alan2099]

If I was going to point out bad 90s DC, I would have either went with Extreme Justice, or this.
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6750/super7.jpg

[Lorendiac]

Nothing represents bad 90s costumes, at least for the women, like this. Can you say stripper?

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/501318-invisible_woman_drew_johnson01_super.jpg

It's the moments like this that remind me why it's been several years since I've bothered to reread any large portion of DeFalco's run on the FF . . . (although occasionally I crack open just one back issue of it again, to research a particular point . . .)

[rick]

What's ridiculous is holding up one comic that many probably haven't even heard of and using it as an example to state some kind of point about an entire era of comics.

Meh. Whatever. Neither one of us is going to convince the other.

Your argument makes no sense.

The 1990's are known for being the era of big guns and bad anatomy, and that Superman picture was all about big guns and bad anatomy.

It’s a shinning example of the era it was drawn in and what it was drawn for is completely irrelevant.

[KYLeo71]

If I was going to point out bad 90s DC, I would have either went with Extreme Justice, or this.
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6750/super7.jpg
W-what in the name of all that is Holy is that?! Once again, I think I'm glad I missed about 20 years of comics.

[Lorendiac]

W-what in the name of all that is Holy is that?! Once again, I think I'm glad I missed about 20 years of comics.

It's from a two-part Elseworlds story (ran in 2 annuals) which was trying to merge the "Magnificent Seven" idea with the whole "several years from now in a grim and gritty future after the Alien Overlords have conquered the world" idea. Using some of DC's heroes as the equivalent of the Magnificent Seven, of course.

In other words, that panel (and the rest of the story) is not, never was, and never will be "in continuity." Does that make you feel better? I didn't think the story was all that bad, myself. (Although it didn't qualify for my top favorites, either.)

[KYLeo71]

It's from a two-part Elseworlds story (ran in 2 annuals) which was trying to merge the "Magnificent Seven" idea with the whole "several years from now in a grim and gritty future after the Alien Overlords have conquered the world" idea. Using some of DC's heroes as the equivalent of the Magnificent Seven, of course.

In other words, that panel (and the rest of the story) is not, never was, and never will be "in continuity." Does that make you feel better? I didn't think the story was all that bad, myself. (Although it didn't qualify for my top favorites, either.)
Well, that does make me feel better (although I'm not sure I know what a 'magnificent seven' is suppose to be). However, that doesn't change the fact that that artwork is just ghastly.

[the4thpip]

Keith Giffen had a good idea what was going wrong as far back as 1992:

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll102/the4thpip/AmbushBugNothingSpecial01pg22.jpg

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll102/the4thpip/AmbushBugNothingSpecial01pg23.jpg

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll102/the4thpip/AmbushBugNothingSpecial01pg35.jpg

[Darrell D.]

If I was going to point out bad 90s DC, I would have either went with Extreme Justice, or this.
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6750/super7.jpg

Yeah, that's the stuff. DC/Marvel/Image was hiring anyone that could draws boobs, muscles and guns at that time.

[carabas]

So why do so many of those books feature art by guys without a clue as to how to draw boobs, guns or muscles?

[Darrell D.]

So why do so many of those books feature art by guys without a clue as to how to draw boobs, guns or muscles?

They were drawing their own IMAGE (get? HAR) of what boobs, guns and muscles looked like.
Oh, and lots of lines. And crosshatching, even if they didn't know how to use it.

[VeganWithaYoYo]

Yeah, that's the stuff. DC/Marvel/Image was hiring anyone that could draws boobs, muscles and guns at that time.

I actually once met the artist of that book. He came in to talk to my Boy Scout troop about comics art back in the mid-90s. Turns out he was one of the troop members' high school volleyball coach.... so maybe they were *really* hiring whoever could draw the muscles and guns?

I do have to admit, though... I do really like the issue, artwork aside :)

[dancj]

Yeah that was actually a good story - though the art wasn't great.

[dumbstruck]

Your argument makes no sense.

The 1990's are known for being the era of big guns and bad anatomy, and that Superman picture was all about big guns and bad anatomy.

It’s a shinning example of the era it was drawn in and what it was drawn for is completely irrelevant.


Have to disagree. It's all about context.

[dumbstruck]

If I was going to point out bad 90s DC, I would have either went with Extreme Justice, or this.
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6750/super7.jpg

Definately on board with Extreme Justice.

[Kylun123]

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6750/super7.jpg

This is still one of my favorite issues ever.

I actually only owned Part 2, but that issue was fun. To a 12 year old me.

[the4thpip]

The EXTREME! 90s even affected the odd Vertigo character:

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll102/the4thpip/Swamp_Thing_v2_131_p14.jpg

[Lorendiac]

Well, that does make me feel better (although I'm not sure I know what a 'magnificent seven' is suppose to be). However, that doesn't change the fact that that artwork is just ghastly.

"The Magnificent Seven" is one of my favorite movies of all time. It's a Western -- Yul Brynner somehow finds himself the leader of a group of seven mercenary gunmen who are hired by the people of an obscure Mexican village to deal with a gang of bandits who come riding through every once in awhile, looting the place. (The Mexican authorities of the late 19th Century apparently didn't care enough to do anything about it.)

The seven men have different personalities and various motives for wanting to get involved, and then for sticking around to see it through to the bitter end after things get awkward . . . (one man was absolutely convinced that there had to be a big buried treasure involved somehow, beyond the rather low pay which the villagers were offering for dangerous men to handle their bandit problem) . . . but all of them end up looking pretty darn heroic (and frequently pretty darn dead!) by the time the final credits roll. If you've never seen the film, you really ought to!

Anyway, when I said that two-part Elseworlds story was trying to combine "Magnificent Seven" with "grim-and-gritty future after alien conquerors have taken over the world," by the Magnificent Seven part I basically meant "a bare handful of colorful personalities bravely going up against horrible odds and not failing miserably!"