Republican Furry Underage Sex Scandal

[TCJohnson]

My feeling?

If you're 'in love' with this person, and you want what's best for said person, why in Heaven's name would you then have underage sex with said person? Why wouldn't you wait until it's legal?

That's my feeling!

[Arrogantcur]

My feeling?

If you're 'in love' with this person, and you want what's best for said person, why in Heaven's name would you then have underage sex with said person? Why wouldn't you wait until it's legal?

That's a good question, and I'll answer as best I can.

The question as I see it is how the person is going to respond to getting involved in that way. Are they going to be hurt emotionally, or are they going to be happy?

I believe that it depends on the people involved, on their emotional state, on the circumstances of their lives, on a whole lot of factors. Not just on their age.

[Michael P]

My feeling?

If you're 'in love' with this person, and you want what's best for said person, why in Heaven's name would you then have underage sex with said person? Why wouldn't you wait until it's legal?

Reminds me of an old joke: A cop is patrolling the local lover's lane and sees a car parked off to the side of the road. He shines his flashlight in the window and sees a boy sitting in the front seat listening to the radio, and a girl sitting in the back seat reading a book.

The cop says, "How old are you kids, and what are you doing up here at this time of night?"

The boy says, "I'm 19 and I'm listening to the radio. She's reading a book, and she'll be 18 in about five minutes."

[Charles RB]

I'm not making an analogy, Charles, I'm saying that when somebody here calls somebody else a pedophile or when they say something like "You sound like somebody from NAMBLA," it is the same damn thing.

An analogy is a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based, so you were making one. It is one that doesn't hold up.

It should also be noticed you were told "You sound like somebody from NAMBLA" because you literally did - you were using the same argument as them.

I just checked. Turns out: they got married. They're still married. You can either view this as the exception that proves the rule, or you can view it as proof that not all cases of adults sleeping with people under the age of 18 or 17 or 16 or whatever it happens to be results in the minor being traumatized.

Or we could view that he most likely is damaged whether he's married or not, and this is likely to have some horrible consequences later on. We could view at like that because, again, all the stats point to these relationships damaging the vast majority of minors involved in them. This is a point you have repeatedly dodged.

[Arrogantcur]

Or we could view that he most likely is damaged whether he's married or not, and this is likely to have some horrible consequences later on. We could view at like that because, again, all the stats point to these relationships damaging the vast majority of minors involved in them. This is a point you have repeatedly dodged.

I like to see signs of something like that before I jump to conclusions.

[Spackling Compound]

I like to see signs of something like that before I jump to conclusions.

It used to be said that an extramarital affair did damage to a family or marriage. Or a sexual experience before marriage could be damaging. Or even a homosexual advance toward a straight person was somehow damaging.
Those aren't so true and one would either be seen as medieval or -phobic if they would deign to say that.

There was also research a while back showing a good percentage of people who experienced sex during adolescence and with adults to be well-adjusted and more or less normal.

The ones who are most damaged are, as Sol said, the ones who are used by an authority figure: priest, coach, teacher, camp counselor, parent, uncle, or babysitter, even.

[Paul McEnery]

I'm not making an analogy, Charles, I'm saying that when somebody here calls somebody else a pedophile or when they say something like "You sound like somebody from NAMBLA," it is the same damn thing. It is one person saying to the other "I am not going to listen to you or debate with you in a civil manner because my mind is already made up and I think you are an awful person for disagreeing with me. So I am going to insult you instead."

ETA: As for debating this in a civil manner, which I for one have tried to do, here is a point I'd like to make.

I do not dispute the fact that rape of any kind can and has harmed people. I won't even dispute the fact that consensual sex between a minor and an adult can cause harm later on. I don't have statistics on hand because I haven't bothered to study this issue in the past. I do, however, recall that Mary Kay Letourneau's former lover to this day has not come out and said that she was some kind of predatory monster who scarred him for life. Quite the opposite, as I recall.

I just checked. Turns out: they got married. They're still married. You can either view this as the exception that proves the rule, or you can view it as proof that not all cases of adults sleeping with people under the age of 18 or 17 or 16 or whatever it happens to be results in the minor being traumatized.

I'm pretty much taking it as proof she left him hella fucked up in the head.

[Arrogantcur]

Hey, by the way, let me explain something else.

Do you know why I get pissed off when somebody here tells me I'm like a NAMBLA member, or implies it?

It is because that, over the years, I have been under the impression that NAMBLA is an organization which wants to legalize the RAPE--not statutory rape, but honest to god RAPE using physical force--against an unwilling little tiny boy who has absolutely ZERO interest in sex. Or they want to train little tiny boys from a very young age to acquiesce to sexual acts and brainwash them into sexual slavery. I have been under the impression that NAMBLA doesn't give a fuck what these little boys want, that they don't care whether or not they traumatize people, that they do not have good intentions at ALL.

So yeah, when you compare me to people like that? I get pissed. And I'd say it's out of line too, because I am NOTHING like that.

[Cam63]

http://cherryflava.typepad.com/cherryflava/julie161.jpg

Nothin' creepy here... Move along.

[Michael P]

It used to be said that an extramarital affair did damage to a family or marriage.

It does. Where the hell have you been?

[Arrogantcur]

http://cherryflava.typepad.com/cherryflava/julie161.jpg

Nothin' creepy here... Move along.

What's creepy there is that the woman is obviously creeped out. If you showed me a picture of the same two people with big smiles on their faces, no, it wouldn't be creepy. Cause, for one thing, the woman does not look like a kid at all.

[Cam63]

Yeah... Riiiight...

[Charles RB]

http://cherryflava.typepad.com/cherryflava/julie161.jpg

Nothin' creepy here... Move along.

I did not want to see that.

[Arrogantcur]

Yeah... Riiiight...

Well, now that you put it that way, you've changed my whole outlook.

[Cam63]

Yay for me then.

[Cam63]

I did not want to see that.

I know.... American beer on the table.

[Arrogantcur]

In my view, your assumption that somebody getting involved with a 16 year old is definitely going to screw them up or traumatize them is akin to my assuming that somebody drinking beer is going to either die of alcohol poisoning or drive drunk and crash his car into somebody else's car. Is there a danger of it? Yes. Is it a sure thing? Of course not.

EDIT TO ADD: But just to be safe, why don't we outlaw alcohol worldwide? You know, to make absolutely sure that those things don't happen.

[Charles RB]

So yeah, when you compare me to people like that? I get pissed. And I'd say it's out of line too, because I am NOTHING like that.

You personally aren't like them - the argument you were using, however, was the same line of argument they use. You're not your argument.

[Arrogantcur]

You personally aren't like them - the argument you were using, however, was the same line of argument they use. You're not your argument.

Okay, thank you for at least giving me the benefit of that doubt. But the association is not something that exactly thrills me, even so.

[Cam63]

In my view, your assumption that somebody getting involved with a 16 year old is definitely going to screw them up or traumatize them is akin to my assuming that somebody drinking beer is going to either die of alcohol poisoning or drive drunk and crash his car into somebody else's car. Is there a danger of it? Yes. Is it a sure thing? Of course not.

To me, a 16 year old is still a kid.

Leave the kids alone.

[Arrogantcur]

To me, a 16 year old is still a kid.

Leave the kids alone.

Well, if you want to just say, in effect, "I'm right and you're wrong and that's all there is to it so STFU," then there is no point in talking to one another from here on.

[Cam63]

Yeah, that's about right.

Keep yacking if you want, though.

[Paul McEnery]

I know.... American beer on the table.

The cigarette in the ashtray is the special accent for me.

[Crowforge]

To me, a 16 year old is still a kid.

Leave the kids alone.
To me dating an 18 year old when you're significantly older still has the stink of desperation and or scumbaggery.

[Arrogantcur]

To me dating an 18 year old when you're significantly older still has the stink of desperation and or scumbaggery.

Love you too.

[Cam63]

As the album title implies, she's 16 and her potential beau is a guy in his 30s.

[Cam63]

Love you too.

Is Crow still in his teens ?

[Crowforge]

Is Crow still in his teens ?
Ha, I wish.

[Michael P]

As the album title implies, she's 16 and her potential beau is a guy in his 30s.

With horrifying mutton chops.

[Crowforge]

With horrifying mutton chops.
What about that hat?

[Cam63]

Ugly mid 30s bogans get all the sheilas.

[Paul McEnery]

With horrifying mutton chops.

Lamb-dressed-as-mutton chops!

[Cam63]

What about that hat?

That's his condom.

[Michael P]

What about that hat?

It at least explains why she's not looking straight ahead.

Follow her eyes, though. That's a ring on his left hand.

[Cam63]

She's still too old for him.

[BnL]

You have a pretty specific picture in your mind of what a 14-year-old looks like and acts like. Admittedly, it's been a while since I interacted with one outside of World of Warcraft, so I don't know how common the following is, but humour me: what if they actually have finished developing physically, or started developing early? I mean, what if they can pass for 18? What if they TALK like an adult? Maybe you know better, but if an adult runs into a teenager like that what is to stop them from thinking that they are dealing with an adult, and treating them like an adult?

And also, since this happens sometimes, what happens if the adult either doesn't find out about the teen's age until after they've gone to bed, or if the teen lies about their age? Do you think that's the same as a sexual predator stalking around looking for children to trap?

It's pretty much impossible for a 14-year-old to have finished developing at that age. And your hypotheticals are pretty outlandish. The vast majority of 14-year-olds don't look like adults. At best, you'll find a 14-year-old who looks older, but you'd still have to wonder if they're quite of age yet. But in an ultra-rare case where a 14-year-old (presumably one with a thyroid condition) looks so old that an adult wouldn't even think to ask if they're of age, and that adult then had sex with the child, they have a defensible case when they find out the truth. But for god's sake, that's such a ridiculous scenario. That kind of thing almost certainly happens with a frequency ranging from rarely to never. And it also has no bearing on issues like the kid's psychological or emotional development, or their lack of life experience, or the fact that a 14-year-old doesn't even know who they are yet at that age.

And no, your scenario is not the same as a predator stalking kids, and I never equated the two. I just think it's extremely naive to think that a 14-year-old could be considered an equal to an adult. It's wishful thinking, and absurd. I think one has to be truly damaged to hold such a belief. And frankly, I've lost a lot of respect for you for trying to make this argument.

[Spackling Compound]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2403/2445817895_2cc5e49c74.jpg

Thora Birch. One misguided child.

[Spackling Compound]

And no, your scenario is not the same as a predator stalking kids, and I never equated the two. I just think it's extremely naive to think that a 14-year-old could be considered an equal to an adult. It's wishful thinking, and absurd. I think one has to be truly damaged to hold such a belief. And frankly, I've lost a lot of respect for you for trying to make this argument.

On the other hand, it seems that many adults are becoming more like 14 year olds.

[Corrina]

On the other hand, it seems that many adults are becoming more like 14 year olds.

Oh, like maybe the poster I'm quoting.

[Spackling Compound]

Oh, like maybe the poster I'm quoting.

Which is so jr. high. Except you're a hall monitor.

[Arrogantcur]

And frankly, I've lost a lot of respect for you for trying to make this argument.

So I've noticed.

Even though I never want to hurt anybody who hasn't hurt me, you think the worst. Hence the poll thread I created. Vote for me to get lost and you've got my word that I'm gone for good if you're in the majority.

[snarkbunny]

Basically if I am alone and I meet somebody I like, I am not picky. I have low standards.


What I don't understand is why you don't want better for yourself and the theoretical girl?

Temperament is not maturity. Maturity is a combination of emotional self-awareness , life experiences, and learning how to manage yourself. The acts of moving out of your parents' home, taking control of your day-to-day life, meeting responsibilities to other people cause huge changes in most people and a lot of this occurs between late teens and early twenty when people go off to university, get their own homes, become responsible for their own bills.

Whether you like or not, that life gap puts the older person in a position of power in the relationship and it's an unbalanced power. Those experiences for good for ill add so much to a person's internal view, their emotional growth, and their knowledge of themselves and the world that the unbalanced power can't be avoided. You would either be their mentor or their exotic, because some things you can not go through again. Do you know why so many teens get "crushes" on movie stars/teachers/unobtainables? It's because they are safe, and the teen can explore those emotional feelings without fear of moving beyond what they are comfortable. It's the romantic equivalent of sitting on the side of the pool and dangling your feet into the water. It doesn't mean they are ready to jump into the deep end.

The best relationships come from partnerships where the partners are equal. That doesn't mean the same or the same experiences but it does mean there needs to be a balance between the partners. I

What a 16-year-old deserves is people who are growing with them, experiencing the fears/joys/excitement of the time when you leave childhood and move into adulthood. They don't deserve to be saddled with adult commitments, and the adults in their lifes have to be brave enough and strong enough to step back and let them fly and provide the anchor for them when they need it. This is the time when the tender shoots of who that person is firm up and strengthen and all that potential comes to fruition (hopefully)

What an adult deserves is someone who is ready to step up and become a partner. Your friend, your lover, your partner. The person who can understand your burdens and be strong enough to take them on without losing themselves or breaking. That relationship is what YOU deserve.

[BnL]

On the other hand, it seems that many adults are becoming more like 14 year olds.

Yeah, I think that accounts for some situations like this. It certainly accounts (in part) for why my 35-year-old brother likes to date teenage girls. He never grew up, so he's attracted to girls who haven't grown up yet either. Most women his own age are too mature and therefore threatening. But at least he has the benefit of tons more life experience (which he does indeed use to charm and manipulate these girls), as well having completed his biological development, as well as not being in the midst of puberty's surging hormones and changes.

[Spackling Compound]

Yeah, I think that accounts for some situations like this. It certainly accounts (in part) for why my 35-year-old brother likes to date teenage girls. He never grew up, so he's attracted to girls who haven't grown up yet either. Most women his own age are too mature and therefore threatening. But at least he has the benefit of tons more life experience (which he does indeed use to charm and manipulate these girls), as well having completed his biological development, as well as not being in the midst of puberty's surging hormones and changes.

Are you serious or baiting? I've lost count now.

If you're serious, that at least adds something to the discussion. It's not like Bigfoot. It's something that happens. I ask then, do you ever want to have sometihng done..about him?

[Corrina]

Jeffrey W Kramer is a licensed psychologist- probably the closest thing CBR had to an expert on this kind of stuff.

I suggest if anyone want hard, cold studies, he'd be one to consult. But I do know that vast numbers of psychological studies show that the vast majority of relationships between adolescents and adults are harmful psychologically to adolescents.

Which is why we have laws against it.

And, no, not all NAMBLA literature calls for forced sex. What they do claim, over and over, is that adolescents or even younger boys have the ability to consent to sex and that the adult who wants to be involved with them does so out of love and affection, just showing them how to be sexual beings.

Most predators will say, over and over, that they love their victims and would never, ever hurt them. They convince themselves that the younger one consented and that it's a real relationship between two people who love each other. It's fairly classic reasoning for them, it's how they justify the continued abuse, how they look themselves in the mirror.

You don't have to believe me, go look it up.

Which is why, when the reasoning is put forth here--though not by people who are predators---it's making a number of posters in this thread really, really twitchy.

[Corrina]

So I've noticed.

Even though I never want to hurt anybody who hasn't hurt me, you think the worst. Hence the poll thread I created. Vote for me to get lost and you've got my word that I'm gone for good if you're in the majority.

That's a bit drama queenish, AC. Not necessary.

[Arrogantcur]

Yeah, I think that accounts for some situations like this. It certainly accounts (in part) for why my 35-year-old brother likes to date teenage girls. He never grew up, so he's attracted to girls who haven't grown up yet either. Most women his own age are too mature and therefore threatening. But at least he has the benefit of tons more life experience (which he does indeed use to charm and manipulate these girls), as well having completed his biological development, as well as not being in the midst of puberty's surging hormones and changes.

I've got no idea whether this is true any more than Spackling, but if you've got a brother who dates teenage girls, plural, I don't see why I get judged so harshly for going out with one girl, singular, in the past.

[Nick Soapdish]

I'm at the point where I'd like to move on from this thread, but I would first like to make it clear that the story I told wasn't meant to say "I didn't proposition her because I was a reasonable adult," it was meant to say "I didn't proposition her because I was worried she would think I was sick for doing so and I was worried about winding up in jail if she said yes and somebody found out about it. But later on I found out that she wouldn't have thought I was sick and had been attracted to me, and I don't see why somebody like myself who was certainly not a 'predator' should have been risking punishment in a court of law for propositioning somebody who wanted to be propositioned."

True, in a post after that I wondered if it were possible that IF I asked her out and things eventually progressed into the bedroom, she would have been saying yes for all the wrong reasons. But I don't know whether that was the case or not. For all I know, everything might have worked out fine.

Also, I was thinking back today and remembered that after we had met the first time we talked about which movies to see and I had suggested Spider-Man and Fahrenheit 9/11, both of which were in theatres at the time. So it was 2004 and she was 16 years old. If I had handled things differently I would make no apologies for that if nothing went wrong for either of us as a result, both because 16 is legal here and I think that when determining whether or not to enter a sexual relationship with somebody you ought to consider more than the six numbers in their date of birth.


I think that your story is a good example of why there are laws for this. At the time, you were only thinking of the legal consequences. After a few more years (of maturing, experience, just more time to think?), you thought about the effects of the relationship on her.

You weren't intending any harm and weren't a predator. But you may have caused it nonetheless (and like you said, we have no way of knowing that you would've caused harm). Sure, she wanted to be propositioned, but you didn't know whether or not she would've known what she was getting in to.

It used to be said that an extramarital affair did damage to a family or marriage.


People still say that.

Maybe you're thinking of swingers or something, but most extra-marital affairs are simply cheating. And yes, those usually do harm to a family or marriage.


There was also research a while back showing a good percentage of people who experienced sex during adolescence and with adults to be well-adjusted and more or less normal.


Link?

In my view, your assumption that somebody getting involved with a 16 year old is definitely going to screw them up or traumatize them is akin to my assuming that somebody drinking beer is going to either die of alcohol poisoning or drive drunk and crash his car into somebody else's car. Is there a danger of it? Yes. Is it a sure thing? Of course not.

EDIT TO ADD: But just to be safe, why don't we outlaw alcohol worldwide? You know, to make absolutely sure that those things don't happen.

Definitely? No.

But it's very likely.

You seem to be taking the opposite tack - that you can probably trust most teenagers to be mature enough to handle it and that most adults wouldn't try to take advantage of it. I do agree on the last part, but I think that's why most adults aren't interested in pursuing a relationship with a teenager. The different levels of life experiences for them emphasizes how it would be a murky situation.

I think that your analogy is actually pretty good. That's why we don't allow teenagers to drink and it's why 14-year old teenagers can't drive. (Although I think the order of ages should be swapped.) Once they hit 21, we trust people to make the right choices, but right now, we obviously don't trust teenagers to not drink and drive.

So since you brought it up, what age do you think it would be appropriate for people to be allowed to drink?

To drive?

How about vote?

Enter into a legal contract?

Do you think that having a sexual relationship requires more maturity or less?


Although I'm focusing on teenagers and adults, I'm not a proponent of teenagers having sex with anyone and I do agree that it can have devastating consequences even if it is between two teenagers. I think that abstinence should be a part of sex ed. But I also believe that being a teenager is partly about making mistakes and making it illegal is the surest way to make sure that they don't listen to anything else that adults have to say about sex.

But adults should know better. They're expected to be ... well, adult. Which is why I agree with age of consent laws.

[Spackling Compound]

Jeffrey W Kramer is a licensed psychologist- probably the closest thing CBR had to an expert on this kind of stuff.

I suggest if anyone want hard, cold studies, he'd be one to consult. But I do know that vast numbers of psychological studies show that the vast majority of relationships between adolescents and adults are harmful psychologically to adolescents.

Which is why we have laws against it.

And, no, not all NAMBLA literature calls for forced sex. What they do claim, over and over, is that adolescents or even younger boys have the ability to consent to sex and that the adult who wants to be involved with them does so out of love and affection, just showing them how to be sexual beings.

Most predators will say, over and over, that they love their victims and would never, ever hurt them. They convince themselves that the younger one consented and that it's a real relationship between two people who love each other. It's fairly classic reasoning for them, it's how they justify the continued abuse, how they look themselves in the mirror.

You don't have to believe me, go look it up.

Which is why, when the reasoning is put forth here--though not by people who are predators---it's making a number of posters in this thread really, really twitchy.

Kramer is also a proponent of multiple partner relationships within marriage which makes some people twitchy.

[Cam63]

What I get is teenagers deserve relationships with teenagers.

...Anyone over 20 need not apply.

[Arrogantcur]

That's a bit drama queenish, AC. Not necessary.

What would be the proper response? Because I tried to give as good as I got, but you know what? I actually do feel quite shitty as a result of the treatment I've gotten. If people want to label me a pussy or thin-skinned or whatever for saying so, whatever.

[Michael P]

What I get is teenagers deserve relationships with teenagers.

I don't think anyone deserves relationships with teenagers.

[Corrina]

You are comparing pedophiles who prey on children to adult swingers again.

Do so again, Spackling, and you'll earn yourself a ban. That's enough.

[BnL]

So I've noticed.

Even though I never want to hurt anybody who hasn't hurt me, you think the worst. Hence the poll thread I created. Vote for me to get lost and you've got my word that I'm gone for good if you're in the majority.

You created a poll? That's a bit melodramatic. For the record, I'm not going to vote, because I think that's ridiculous, but I don't want you to go. Forget about the poll. We disagree on this issue, strongly. And yes, it effects how I view you, but I don't want you gone either.

And I don't suspect the worst about you. Just because I don't think the best, doesn't mean that I think the worst. I've never used words like pedophile or NAMBLA. I just think that you're naive to think that a 14-year-old could be on equal footing with an adult. And yes, I think that there are probably underlying issues to make you feel that way. It's obvious that I'm not a shrink, and I don't really know you, so I can't really speculate exactly what those issues ARE, but let me assure you that I don't think the issues are anything sinister or predatory. Nothing like that. I know you're not out to hurt anyone.

[Arrogantcur]

You created a poll? That's a bit melodramatic. For the record, I'm not going to vote, because I think that's ridiculous, but I don't want you to go. Forget about the poll. We disagree on this issue, strongly. And yes, it effects how I view you, but I don't want you gone either.

And I don't suspect the worst about you. Just because I don't think the best, doesn't mean that I think the worst. I've never used words like pedophile or NAMBLA. I just think that you're naive to think that a 14-year-old could be on equal footing with an adult. And yes, I think that there are probably underlying issues to make you feel that way. It's obvious that I'm not a shrink, and I don't really know you, so I can't really speculate exactly what those issues ARE, but let me assure you that I don't think the issues are anything sinister or predatory. Nothing like that. I know you're not out to hurt anyone.

Well, thank you for that at least.

[Spackling Compound]

People still say that.

Maybe you're thinking of swingers or something, but most extra-marital affairs are simply cheating. And yes, those usually do harm to a family or marriage.

The "most" word is appropriate when it's cheating. However, when responsible partnering is practiced, it seems that families aren't affected negatively at all. This, again, is anectdotal.



------------------
Link?



This is the questionable research but still a burr in the saddle of the APA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rind_et_al.

[BnL]

Are you serious or baiting? I've lost count now.

If you're serious, that at least adds something to the discussion. It's not like Bigfoot. It's something that happens. I ask then, do you ever want to have sometihng done..about him?

I don't know why you'd suspect me of baiting. I'm being serious.

As far as something "being done" about my brother, I'd like him to get his act together and grow up. He should be in counseling, big time. He's got ISSUES. He's damaging these girls, and exacerbating the damage already existing in himself. But the relationships (with the exception of one, which was over a decade ago) were with girls who were of age.

[Spackling Compound]

You are comparing pedophiles who prey on children to adult swingers again.

Do so again, Spackling, and you'll earn yourself a ban. That's enough.

You're seeing what you want to see.

I am saying there is a difference between "cheating" and having multiple partners.
There's a difference between being a pedophile and being a TEEN who is mature enough emotionally to date adults.

[BnL]

I've got no idea whether this is true any more than Spackling, but if you've got a brother who dates teenage girls, plural, I don't see why I get judged so harshly for going out with one girl, singular, in the past.

Why would it exempt you from judgment? I judge my brother plenty, believe me.

[Spackling Compound]

I don't know why you'd suspect me of baiting. I'm being serious.

As far as something "being done" about my brother, I'd like him to get his act together and grow up. He should be in counseling, big time. He's got ISSUES. He's damaging these girls, and exacerbating the damage already existing in himself. But the relationships (with the exception of one, which was over a decade ago) were with girls who were of age.

I just have seen people be flip with this topic.

Would you consider your brother a pedophile? Do you believe him to be the kind of "monster" that others have described in this thread?

[TCJohnson]

It's pretty much impossible for a 14-year-old to have finished developing at that age. And your hypotheticals are pretty outlandish. The vast majority of 14-year-olds don't look like adults. At best, you'll find a 14-year-old who looks older, but you'd still have to wonder if they're quite of age yet. But in an ultra-rare case where a 14-year-old (presumably one with a thyroid condition) looks so old that an adult wouldn't even think to ask if they're of age, and that adult then had sex with the child, they have a defensible case when they find out the truth. But for god's sake, that's such a ridiculous scenario. That kind of thing almost certainly happens with a frequency ranging from rarely to never. And it also has no bearing on issues like the kid's psychological or emotional development, or their lack of life experience, or the fact that a 14-year-old doesn't even know who they are yet at that age.

There was a study recently that said the part of the brain that eveluates risk doesn't finish forming until the age of 25. FYI.

[Corrina]

You're seeing what you want to see.

I am saying there is a difference between "cheating" and having multiple partners.
There's a difference between being a pedophile and being a TEEN who is mature enough emotionally to date adults.

The law and the vast majority of psychological studies quite disagree with you.

[Spackling Compound]

The law and the vast majority of psychological studies quite disagree with you.

The law also says...oh forget it...not worth it.

[Corrina]

The law also says...oh forget it...not worth it.

No, I doubt it is.

[TCJohnson]

What a 16-year-old deserves is people who are growing with them, experiencing the fears/joys/excitement of the time when you leave childhood and move into adulthood. They don't deserve to be saddled with adult commitments, and the adults in their lifes have to be brave enough and strong enough to step back and let them fly and provide the anchor for them when they need it. This is the time when the tender shoots of who that person is firm up and strengthen and all that potential comes to fruition (hopefully)

What an adult deserves is someone who is ready to step up and become a partner. Your friend, your lover, your partner. The person who can understand your burdens and be strong enough to take them on without losing themselves or breaking. That relationship is what YOU deserve.

That is exactly what I meant before, you just said it better!

[Arrogantcur]

You think we should just stop talking about this?

It's partly because I'm tired and have reached my limit, yes. But there's more. While nobody is forcing me to continue participating in this thread I don't see how it does any good for anybody else to do so either.

It's off the original topic anyway, which I acknowledge is my own fault because I was the one who first asked the question that (yes, I'm going to use Michael P's analogy) opened up this can of worms. I think everything that could be said of any value has been said already, tempers are flaring, feelings are getting hurt, and no good can come from continuing to bicker about this.

But that's just my opinion and just a suggestion.

[BnL]

I just have seen people be flip with this topic.

Would you consider your brother a pedophile? Do you believe him to be the kind of "monster" that others have described in this thread?

He's not a pedophile, since these aren't pre-pubescent girls, and all but one (who was 17 when they started dating) were of legal age. Even so, a lot of the typical problems of adults dating underage girls are present in his relationships. That makes him extremely immoral and troubled, but not a criminal. I don't agree with all the language that some posters have been using, but I would confidently say that my brother is damaged, and needs to be in counseling. What he does is harmful to the girls (one committed suicide after their break up, another attempted suicide a couple of times, but thankfully, she's gotten her life together since then), and even to himself.

[Spackling Compound]

He's not a pedophile, since these aren't pre-pubescent girls, and all but one (who was 17 when they started dating) were of legal age. Even so, a lot of the typical problems of adults dating underage girls are present in his relationships. That makes him extremely immoral and troubled, but not a criminal. I don't agree with all the language that some posters have been using, but I would confidently say that my brother is damaged, and needs to be in counseling. What he does is harmful to the girls (one committed suicide after their break up, another attempted suicide a couple of times, but thankfully, she's gotten her life together since then), and even to himself.

Sobering. Thanks, BnL.

He may not be a pedophile but there seems to be no quarter for defining that here. But there is a distinction in his attraction to teens as you've said. However, his actions sound very monstrous.

Suicides? Incredibly sobering and sad.

[Sabrinaset]

I'd really prefer that we started talking about politicians and their staff dressing up as animals and screwing their brains out. I think Biden would make a pretty good ostrich, Palin would be passable as either a black cat or a gopher, I guess W as a monkey would be an obvious one, and Hillary could be a wiener dog.

[Nick Soapdish]

Jeffrey W Kramer is a licensed psychologist- probably the closest thing CBR had to an expert on this kind of stuff.


I think that he's "only" a therapist. He's had to correct people before when he was identified as a psychologist.

The "most" word is appropriate when it's cheating. However, when responsible partnering is practiced, it seems that families aren't affected negatively at all. This, again, is anectdotal.


But the former is the vast majority of the cases so "most" is still wrong.


This is the questionable research but still a burr in the saddle of the APA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rind_et_al.

Hmm. I see the list of objections to the methodology (such as the non-random sample) and yet it still says that those involved in underage sex are 50% more likely to have serious issues. I can't really comment on the rest of it (and can barely comment on that part).

[TCJohnson]

, I don't see why I get judged so harshly for going out with one girl, singular, in the past.

I don't think people are judging you harshly because you dated an underage girl in the past. We all make mistakes. I will say right now when I was 23 I dated an 18 year old girl. There, if they want to judge you harshly, they are judging me harshly too.

The difference is that now that it is over...while I don't think I caused her any harm, the potential for causing her harm was there and I know now that it was not a good idea.

You keep trying to defend it and are implying you would do it again. That is what is making people a little nervous.

I am not judging you and don't want you to leave...just pointing out why other people might be getting a bit...twitchy about what you are saying.

By the way, my fiancee is a social worker who works for child protection services. If you need any hard data I am sure she can provide it.

[BnL]

Sobering. Thanks, BnL.

He may not be a pedophile but there seems to be no quarter for defining that here. But there is a distinction in his attraction to teens as you've said. However, his actions sound very monstrous.

Suicides? Incredibly sobering and sad.

It is sad. But yeah, since they're almost all legal (although the 17 year old was when he lived in New Hampshire, which I think is within state law), there's no laws being broken. Although he HAS dated women in their 20's, and had the occasional hook up with women his own age, he seems to like them in the 18-19 range.

[Arrogantcur]

You keep trying to defend it and are implying you would do it again. That is what is making people a little nervous.

I am not judging you and don't want you to leave...just pointing out why other people might be getting a bit...twitchy about what you are saying.

I guess that makes sense.

[Christopher Cross Is God]

The reference to germany brings up a question; in Germany isn't the legal age 16 for drinking and don't they have "less" issues with alcoholism and drunk driving accidents, despite also having higher speeding limits?

It's a lot more difficult to get a drivers license in Germany than it is in North America. Their standards for training, driving tests, etc. are at a much higher level.



It's pretty much impossible for a 14-year-old to have finished developing at that age. And your hypotheticals are pretty outlandish. The vast majority of 14-year-olds don't look like adults. At best, you'll find a 14-year-old who looks older, but you'd still have to wonder if they're quite of age yet.


I've noticed plenty of 14-17yr old girls who I thought were adults, and I've seen adults who I assumed were underaged (But weren't).

Knew a guy whose 14yr old sister was pretty tall for her age, and she was pretty good looking. The guy (Her older brother) was, too. Good looking siblings.......Anyway, he took her to a party with some friends, and he got pissed off because guys were hitting on his sister (They didn't know how old she was, and he was stupid to take her to an "adult" party, anyway).

I've seen her recently (8-10yrs later), and she's no longer attractive. She's awkwardly tall and way too thin.


My feeling?

If you're 'in love' with this person, and you want what's best for said person, why in Heaven's name would you then have underage sex with said person? Why wouldn't you wait until it's legal?

I just looked this up......

Age of consent in Canada used to be 14. Does that mean it would've been alright for a 20+ year old guy to wait for a 13yr old to become 14?

It changed to 16 last year (2008).

[Spackling Compound]

The fluid transition of "age of consent" proves the rule that societies aren't too sure when the magic moment happens that one can be assured that they're dealing with an adult.

Wikipedia, the specious source it is, has a listing of "famous pederastic couples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_pederastic_couples#20th_century)". Seemingly, some of the people included here are not understood to be monsters or evil predators but by some of the postings above, should be.

A few samples from the 20th century:

Philip Streatfeild and Noel Coward
Streatfeild, a 35 year old painter and member of the Uranian Society, took the 14 year old child actor in and introduced him to high society in 1913. Coward is thought to have modeled for his painting of nude boys on the beach. "His "friendship" at age 14 with painter Philip Streatfield (the only relationship about which the program is somewhat coy - homosexuality may have reached a greater level of acceptance today, but man-boy sex is still taboo) led to a connection with aristocrat Mrs. Astley-Cooper, and indeed, residence at the Cooper estate."
W. H. Auden and Michael Yates
In 1934 the poet took his former pupil, aged fifteen and by Auden's own account one of the five great loves of his life, on travels through Europe, and was inspired by him to write some of his tenderest love poems.
James Baldwin and Lucien Happsberger
At the time of his first trip to Paris in 1949, Baldwin met and fell in love with Lucien Happsberger. The boy was a Swiss seventeen-year-old runaway, and the two remained very close, until Happsberger's marriage three years later, an event that left Baldwin devastated.

[Calybos]

Is this all about the imaginary "magic line" that separates sane, responsible adults from clueless, irresponsible kids?

Because I thought everyone here already knew that line was pure fiction. Plenty of teenagers can, and do, make mature and responsible decisions for themselves. Plenty of 40-year olds can't even dress themselves without injury.

The adult/minor distinction is a gradation, not a boundary... and it varies from person to person. A 21-year old dating a 17-year old MIGHT be exploiting the younger person.... but so might a 16-year old with a 15-year old. Or a 28-year old and a 24-year old. Or heck, even the reverse.

If you're not one of the two people involved, all you've got is guesswork and averages.


.

[Arrogantcur]

Because I thought everyone here already knew that line was pure fiction. Plenty of teenagers can, and do, make mature and responsible decisions for themselves. Plenty of 40-year olds can't even dress themselves without injury.

Calybos, while I'm glad that you aren't telling me I'm crazy or sick for seeing things the way I do, I really advise against getting involved in this thread. People have made up their minds. It didn't end well for me, it didn't end well for Spackling, if Falcon had been more vocal it wouldn't have ended well for him, and it won't end well for you.

The best thing to do is just agree to disagree and concentrate on other things, if you can.

[Spackling Compound]

Calybos, while I'm glad that you aren't telling me I'm crazy or sick for seeing things the way I do, I really advise against getting involved in this thread. People have made up their minds. It didn't end well for me, it didn't end well for Spackling, if Falcon had been more vocal it wouldn't have ended well for him, and it won't end well for you.

The best thing to do is just agree to disagree and concentrate on other things, if you can.

It's all good. The only one who's been threatened with a ban has been me. Everyone else is just blowing some steam.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I remember years ago (years....and years) that the line seemed to really blur a lot when adults and teenagers did marry. I mean have we forgot that Jerry Lee Lewis was 32/33 when he married his 15 yearold cousin Myra ?

There was outrage and the British really let Lewis have it as they rolled a baby carriage on stage and ripped the hell outta him for this. But the outrage didn't seem to last. It did derail his career awhile...but he made his country comeback and stuck around.

Then there was Elvis. And its clear him and Priscilla were seeing each other. He was in his mid to late 20's and she was 13-14. She moved to America and lived under his roof and no one said a word. This under-age girl living with The King .

Its just weird that years ago that people seemed to let the line blur so bad.


And yep seeing an underage girl is wrong. I try and stay at 20 and above myself. I will talk to others below that to be friendly. But I keep myself at a 20 and above limit if I'm gonna date or see someone that age.

[Spackling Compound]

I remember years ago (years....and years) that the line seemed to really blur a lot when adults and teenagers did marry. I mean have we forgot that Jerry Lee Lewis was 32/33 when he married his 15 yearold cousin Myra ?

There was outrage and the British really let Lewis have it as they rolled a baby carriage on stage and ripped the hell outta him for this. But the outrage didn't seem to last. It did derail his career awhile...but he made his country comeback and stuck around.

Then there was Elvis. And its clear him and Priscilla were seeing each other. He was in his mid to late 20's and she was 13-14. She moved to America and lived under his roof and no one said a word. This under-age girl living with The King .

Its just weird that years ago that people seemed to let the line blur so bad.


And yep seeing an underage girl is wrong. I try and stay at 20 and above myself. I will talk to others below that to be friendly. But I keep myself at a 20 and above limit if I'm gonna date or see someone that age.

The across the board calling people "shitfucks" or "monsters" and asking for them to put a bullet to the head is the same kind of blanketing that makes an Islamic mullah in Wisconsin the same as an extremist bomber in Tehran.

I am not surprised that so many have joined the name calling..that's what they do. But I am surprised that some of the more measured ones, even the mods, have done so.

[Joe Rice]

There is a difference between an average muslim and someone who wants to fuck kids.

It's a pretty basic one.

[Charles RB]

If you're not one of the two people involved, all you've got is guesswork and averages.

Actually, what we've got is the vast majority of studies and cases show that relationships between adults and minors are destructive. That's not an average, it's a majority; it's not guesswork, it's evidence.

Assuming it'll work out fine, that's going off guesswork.

it didn't end well for Spackling

It didn't work well for Spackling because he was using the issue as a passive-aggressive excuse to bash homosexuals and swingers.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

The across the board calling people "shitfucks" or "monsters" and asking for them to put a bullet to the head is the same kind of blanketing that makes an Islamic mullah in Wisconsin the same as an extremist bomber in Tehran.

I am not surprised that so many have joined the name calling..that's what they do. But I am surprised that some of the more measured ones, even the mods, have done so.

Uhhh..... I never called anyone a monster or shitfuck in what I posted. And I only skimmed a few posts in the thread to be truthful and have no idea how heated it is to be fair.

[Spackling Compound]

Actually, what we've got is the vast majority of studies and cases show that relationships between adults and minors are destructive. That's not an average, it's a majority; it's not guesswork, it's evidence.

Assuming it'll work out fine, that's going off guesswork.



It didn't work well for Spackling because he was using the issue as a passive-aggressive excuse to bash homosexuals and swingers.

Really?
Totally missed my point.
What I was saying is that the defintion of adultery has been nuanced so that those who chose to have multiple partners may do so.
Why can't we decide that maybe a teenager can also make such decisions or those who, like James Baldwin or WH Auden, aren't monsters at all?
That's it.
Just asking for some fairness.

[Spackling Compound]

There is a difference between an average muslim and someone who wants to fuck kids.

It's a pretty basic one.

Yeah, but all those who fuck kids? They aren't the same as the "people who want to fuck kids".

[Joe Rice]

Really?
Totally missed my point.
What I was saying is that the defintion of adultery has been nuanced so that those who chose to have multiple partners may do so.
Why can't we decide that maybe a teenager can also make such decisions or those who, like James Baldwin or WH Auden, aren't monsters at all?
That's it.
Just asking for some fairness.

Swinging is between consenting adults. Kidfucking isn't.

[Arrogantcur]

It didn't work well for Spackling because he was using the issue as a passive-aggressive excuse to bash homosexuals and swingers.

I did not read all of Spackling's posts in detail but I do remember him mentioning that and here is how I interpreted it.

I do not believe he was being homophobic, but rather trying to say "Look, lots of things have been against the law in the past when they shouldn't have been against the law. Lots of people were arrested and locked up when they shouldn't have been. History is full of the establishment making laws against who can have sex with who and what kind of sex they have, and much of the time it has been based more on fear and disgust than on logic or on whether the activity is actually harmful to the parties involved. I don't believe that consensual sex between the kinds of people we're talking about should be illegal any more than I believe gay sex should be illegal or swinging should be illegal."

That is what I thought he was saying, at any rate.

Uhhh..... I never called anyone a monster or shitfuck in what I posted. And I only skimmed a few posts in the thread to be truthful and have no idea how heated it is to be fair.

You didn't, true, but I remember Joe calling Spackling something with the word "shit" in it.

[Joe Rice]

Yeah, but all those who fuck kids? They aren't the same as the "people who want to fuck kids".

I've got no more sympathy for advocates than actual kidfuckers.

[Spackling Compound]

Swinging is between consenting adults. Kidfucking isn't.

Over 18 is adult.

We're talking about the false magic line between 17 and 18.

[Joe Rice]

Over 18 is adult.

We're talking about the false magic line between 17 and 18.

It's there for good reason. Maybe some are mature enough. but there's no way to make a "some can" law. Either way it's creepy. People should fuck within their general age bracket.

[Spackling Compound]

I don't believe that consensual sex between the kinds of people we're talking about should be illegal any more than I believe gay sex should be illegal or swinging should be illegal."

That is what I thought he was saying, at any rate.


That or, it's just as able to be "legal" and "normalized" as the other ways have been. Which is more my line of thinking.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

A few years ago my little cousin was 18/19 and she had met a friend of girl. This guy was 34-36 in there. And had 2-3 kids (memory is hazy here) ...and one was close to her age ! It was funny as this guy wanted to date her. Now her brother basically caught the guy driving by to ask her out.

"Look your in your mid 30's. You have 2-3 kids. My sister has her whole life ahead of her and doesn't wanna watch your children. Move on."


The guy objected to this saying his ex-wife watched the kids and he wanted to date her. Now my cousin (her brother) got more pissed. He tried to be friendly and send the guy away nice. Now he had to get rough.

"Your an old piece of shit. Go fuck a teenager elsewhere because if I see ya around my little sister I'll beat the hell outta you right here."

My cousin walked towards him , intent on draggin him outta his pickup and beating the hell outta him right there. The dude peeled off....and hit the road. He never again asked her out and as she told me later , she never wanted to date the guy. She was being friendly and chatted with him. But he took it as she wanted him and he was ready to pounce on some young chick. :tongue:

[FalconX2000]

It's there for good reason. Maybe some are mature enough. but there's no way to make a "some can" law. Either way it's creepy. People should fuck within their general age bracket.

While I am by and large against Spackling's argument, I should point out that there is nothing rationally wrong with any age gap in sexual partners if they're both adults. Therefore, even if people do find it 'icky', having laws against it cannot be justified.

[Joe Rice]

While I am by and large against Spackling's argument, I should point out that there is nothing rationally wrong with any age gap in sexual partners if they're both adults. Therefore, even if people do find it 'icky', having laws against it cannot be justified.

I agree. I meant adults vs. kids as basic age bracket.

[Charles RB]

That is what I thought he was saying, at any rate.

I should clarify that I've seen Spack using issues to be passive-aggressive and bash people before, so I'm looking at his posts that way. I could be wrong, of course.

[Spackling Compound]

I should clarify that I've seen Spack using issues to be passive-aggressive and bash people before, so I'm looking at his posts that way. I could be wrong, of course.

Whatever the tone or intent, the argument is still valid, obviously.

At one point in history Blacks could not vote. Nor women. It was thought that they, for whatever reason, did not have the sense to do so. Among other reasons.

It turns out, they have very good sense and can vote, and even run for offices.

In the same way, are we repeating some old cultural bias in saying that a person is incapable of rightfully performing an act that is very basic?

[PatrickG]

Whatever the tone or intent, the argument is still valid, obviously.


...

Arguments are between people. Of course tone and intent matter.

I'd side with someone I disagree with who disagrees with me for the right reasons as opposed to siding with someone I agree with, who makes their stance for the wrong reasons. Method is everything. Means outweigh ends.

[Spackling Compound]

...

Arguments are between people. Of course tone and intent matter.

I'd side with someone I disagree with who disagrees with me for the right reasons as opposed to siding with someone I agree with, who makes their stance for the wrong reasons. Method is everything. Means outweigh ends.

No one is drawing up sides here. I'm just pointing out that there are valid points brought up and just to say, "PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE" is not a point.

When some posters start pointing out hate or abuse, it's aggressive. Sometimes when they talk about conventions which are unseamly, it's passive aggressive. But that doesn't make it invalid.

[Nick Soapdish]

Whatever the tone or intent, the argument is still valid, obviously.

At one point in history Blacks could not vote. Nor women. It was thought that they, for whatever reason, did not have the sense to do so. Among other reasons.

It turns out, they have very good sense and can vote, and even run for offices.

In the same way, are we repeating some old cultural bias in saying that a person is incapable of rightfully performing an act that is very basic?

It's not an old cultural bias.

People used to think of teenagers as basically the same as little adults and it used to be pretty common for them to get married in their teenage years, even before age 16. It's only in the last 100 years or so that we've started recognizing that physical maturity doesn't equal emotional or intellectual maturity.

[section 8]

I'd really prefer that we started talking about politicians and their staff dressing up as animals and screwing their brains out. I think Biden would make a pretty good ostrich, Palin would be passable as either a black cat or a gopher, I guess W as a monkey would be an obvious one, and Hillary could be a wiener dog.

Most frightening post ever..

What's worse is how she was ready on the spot with a list :eek:

[BnL]

I don't think there's a "magic line" between adults and children that gets crossed when one reaches their 18th birthday. But for legal purposes, that line has to be drawn somewhere, and 18 seems like a reasonable place to me.

I said earlier in the thread that people who think it's okay for an adult to date a 14-year-old are damaged. And I'll be honest, when I found out about Arrogantcur's "Should I Stay or Should I Go" thread, my first thought was that it perfectly exemplified my point of view. Starting a poll on a message board and inviting people to vote on whether or not you should leave is pretty silly, but not out of the ordinary for, say, a 16-year-old to do. The thing is, Arrogantcur is 32. It just indicates to me that, despite how mature he may be in other ways, there's still an immaturity or stunted emotional development there, and that would explain why he's able to view a 14-year-old as a peer, and therefore, a (potentially) suitable partner. The problem is that most kids eventually, you know...grow up. And the adults who would date or have sex with them have yet to grow up, and in fact, might never do so. That could either mean that the relationship has no chance of lasting (and the kid might only realize when they're older how damaged their lover was), or the relationship may actually stunt the kid's own emotional growth.

Let me just say that, despite what I've said, I still do like Arrogantcur, and that I don't view him as a predator or evil monster, or anything like that. That doesn't mean that his position on this matter can't still be harmful.

[Spackling Compound]

I don't think there's a "magic line" between adults and children that gets crossed when one reaches their 18th birthday. But for legal purposes, that line has to be drawn somewhere, and 18 seems like a reasonable place to me.

I said earlier in the thread that people who think it's okay for an adult to date a 14-year-old are damaged. And I'll be honest, when I found out about Arrogantcur's "Should I Stay or Should I Go" thread, my first thought was that it perfectly exemplified my point of view. Starting a poll on a message board and inviting people to vote on whether or not you should leave is pretty silly, but not out of the ordinary for, say, a 16-year-old to do. The thing is, Arrogantcur is 32. It just indicates to me that, despite how mature he may be in other ways, there's still an immaturity or stunted emotional development there, and that would explain why he's able to view a 14-year-old as a peer, and therefore, a (potentially) suitable partner. The problem is that most kids eventually, you know...grow up. And the adults who would date or have sex with them have yet to grow up, and in fact, might never do so. That could either mean that the relationship has no chance of lasting (and the kid might only realize when they're older how damaged their lover was), or the relationship may actually stunt the kid's own emotional growth.

Let me just say that, despite what I've said, I still do like Arrogantcur, and that I don't view him as a predator or evil monster, or anything like that. That doesn't mean that his position on this matter can't still be harmful.

Very well said, BnL.

http://i27.tinypic.com/2vmhb3s.jpg

[SUPERECWFAN1]

When I was 19 years old I had a relationship with somebody that I'd regret later on. It was with somebody who didn't really care about me and emotionally blackmailed me. It wasn't good for my development. I wound up going through an emotional wringer. Looking back more than 10 years later, I don't think it was the right thing for me to do. I should've just stayed the hell away from that woman. Did being 19 years old instead of 14 years old mean I had good judgment? Not at all. Did it mean I had better judgment? I don't know, but I don't think it did.

This post sadly reminds me of what happened to Taran Noah Smith . Those who don't reconize the name ...well he played Mark on Home Improvment. Smith was 17 and in college when a much older woman basically moved in on him and seduced him into marriage. She was 16 years older and his parents basically said she had taken control of him emotionally.

It took him a good 6 years and he learned she was stealing money from him for another business. He had dropped his family due to her....but now seems back with them.

But it is disturbing a woman who was 33-34 moved in on a younger boy. And hell...she had to be seeing him when he was 16 !

[shrike]

Celine Dion creepy husband what...?

[Christopher Cross Is God]

I said earlier in the thread that people who think it's okay for an adult to date a 14-year-old are damaged. And I'll be honest, when I found out about Arrogantcur's "Should I Stay or Should I Go" thread, my first thought was that it perfectly exemplified my point of view. Starting a poll on a message board and inviting people to vote on whether or not you should leave is pretty silly, but not out of the ordinary for, say, a 16-year-old to do. The thing is, Arrogantcur is 32. It just indicates to me that, despite how mature he may be in other ways, there's still an immaturity or stunted emotional development there

Interesting, although I've noticed quite a few people do those types of polls on forums.....Could simply mean someone's over-sensitive and is overly conscious of what others think of them (Of course, that could partly tie in with mental immaturity).



, and that would explain why he's able to view a 14-year-old as a peer, and therefore, a (potentially) suitable partner.

The problem is that most kids eventually, you know...grow up. And the adults who would date or have sex with them have yet to grow up, and in fact, might never do so. That could either mean that the relationship has no chance of lasting (and the kid might only realize when they're older how damaged their lover was), or the relationship may actually stunt the kid's own emotional growth.



I can agree with this when considering a society like the US, which has certain perceptions on sexuality. A lot of older men or women, who seek actual relationships with the underaged, tend to have something wrong with them.

Case in point, that attractive female teacher who was seeing an underaged student (Can't remember her name, but she was supposed to have been a former swimsuit pageant winner or something)........She made child-like text messages & voice-mails to the student. It was kind of odd, really.

Thing is, a lot of guys who go for younger girls (Including 14-17yr olds) aren't seeking a true relationship, but are simply trying to fornicate with what they consider to be physically attractive.......I'd assume a lot of older women who do such are seeking the same thing.

[J.R. LeMar]

This post sadly reminds me of what happened to Taran Noah Smith

Holy Moley! After reading this, I've done some googling on the situation. That's one heck of a story!

Heck, if he wants to make an acting comeback, he should option a movie based on his own life. It's got Lifetime Original Movie written all over it.

[Solaris]

I can agree with this when considering a society like the US, which has certain perceptions on sexuality. A lot of older men or women, who seek actual relationships with the underaged, tend to have something wrong with them.

Case in point, that attractive female teacher who was seeing an underaged student (Can't remember her name, but she was supposed to have been a former swimsuit pageant winner or something)........She made child-like text messages & voice-mails to the student. It was kind of odd, really.

Thing is, a lot of guys who go for younger girls (Including 14-17yr olds) aren't seeking a true relationship, but are simply trying to fornicate with what they consider to be physically attractive.......I'd assume a lot of older women who do such are seeking the same thing.


Often, there are control and/or ego issues involved. In the case of an older woman with a young teen male, often there's that ego issue of being "his first," along with the perception of being adored and seen as totally hot by said teen. A woman may have low self-esteem, especially about her body---being adored and body-worshiped by a male who also looks up to her and lets her be in control is very attractive to some women. In and of itself that's not necessarily bad at all---but when said woman looks to a 14 year old to get it from, it's a problem.