How powerful should Batman be?

[Jorriss]

So I didn't find any thread like this that was entirely opinion based, and the Towel of Babel thread got me thinking, how powerful should Batman be?

Do guy guys like him as Batgod where he can defeat everyone on the JL spontaneously (except Superman) or a more down-to-eart gritty Batman like year one? This is all your opinion.


I personally like him somewhere around Dark Victory. Mainly, he's an awesome fighter who prepares for situations and is fantastic at figuring stuff out. Plus, at this point he's become confident in his role. But keep in mind I'm not discussing personality at all, just his physical/mental ability. If you guys want to though go for it.
Somewhat on the topic, I also enjoy him having the Bat family, Tim, Dick, Alfred, Oracle, Huntress and Catwoman, but I prefer Jason being dead.

[Blue Blazes]

...he's an awesome fighter who prepares for situations and is fantastic at figuring stuff out...

I think this is how Batman has to be as well. He has no traditional "super human powers" so he needs to rely of his smarts and fighting skills. Those traits can bring down stronger, faster opponents by taking advantage of the situation and exploiting weaknesses.

[dreyga2000]

Given the fluid nature of Batman contiunity.... He should be as capable as the story requires within reason of stated powerset....

[Jorriss]

Given the fluid nature of Batman contiunity.... He should be as capable as the story requires within reason of stated powerset....
well, yeah, but this thread which you guys can change if you want, was more like: if Batman existed, where there are no variable power sets, how good should he be? Or, how do you define your favorite incarnation of Batmans abilities?

[Scott Taylor]

Physically he's in the category of "as fit as a person can possibly be." He knows martial arts but isn't the best martial artist on the planet. He has an extremely high threshold of pain, can fight effectively through enormous adversity. But he relies on mental toughness as well as physical toughness. But he doesn't match up with the heavy hitters physically.

Mentally, thats another story. He's smarter than like 90 percent of the rest of the heroes. He always goes in prepared, to some degree. He is very observant and very good at spotting weaknesses - in the town of Dale he'd be the guy who noticed that Smaug had one weak scale. He's a great detective, right up there with Sherlock Holmes.

So, not Batgod, but he definitely earns his place in the elite heroes of DC.

[Captain Jim]

I detest Batgod.

[numberONE]

Who's Batgod? Or are you just using the word, like you can use the word ''superman''?

[Hullababy]

Who's Batgod? Or are you just using the word, like you can use the word ''superman''?

By batgod he means the uber powerful version of batman to whom even the devil bows.

[milosimpkin]

Physically he's in the category of "as fit as a person can possibly be." He knows martial arts but isn't the best martial artist on the planet. He has an extremely high threshold of pain, can fight effectively through enormous adversity. But he relies on mental toughness as well as physical toughness. But he doesn't match up with the heavy hitters physically.

Mentally, thats another story. He's smarter than like 90 percent of the rest of the heroes. He always goes in prepared, to some degree. He is very observant and very good at spotting weaknesses - in the town of Dale he'd be the guy who noticed that Smaug had one weak scale. He's a great detective, right up there with Sherlock Holmes.

So, not Batgod, but he definitely earns his place in the elite heroes of DC.

This is pretty much it for me. Though I do like him to be a renaissance man when it comes to knowledges. Good at nearly everything, but not the best in any of them. What he does is manage to bring together many disparate ideas into a solution, and while he can talk hard science with Ray Palmer, he'll be understanding it not conversing fully on his level.

I do not like him to be able to solve /everything/ with preperation by himself. Coming up with a plan that takes full advantage of the other JLA members and using their abilities to carry though his plan... definately.

[NickFury90]

Who's Batgod? Or are you just using the word, like you can use the word ''superman''?

Grant Morrison's version of the character, who I LOVE. Although, my favorite Batgod moment is in Joe Kelly's JLA, when the entire Justice League was killed on a time-travel mission, a prerecorded video from Batman assembled a new team. During the speech he recorded some unknown time ago, Green Arrow starts complaining to the Atom - and the video tells him to shut up.

[Mia]

Physically he's in the category of "as fit as a person can possibly be." He knows martial arts but isn't the best martial artist on the planet. He has an extremely high threshold of pain, can fight effectively through enormous adversity. But he relies on mental toughness as well as physical toughness. But he doesn't match up with the heavy hitters physically.

Mentally, thats another story. He's smarter than like 90 percent of the rest of the heroes. He always goes in prepared, to some degree. He is very observant and very good at spotting weaknesses - in the town of Dale he'd be the guy who noticed that Smaug had one weak scale. He's a great detective, right up there with Sherlock Holmes.

So, not Batgod, but he definitely earns his place in the elite heroes of DC.

I'm going with Lunal's description. He's good but he's not perfect and he certainly does not know everything. And when I say know everything, I mean in terms of what every single bad guy is doing at a given point and time. That's just absurd.

[shinjiro15]

Has anyone ever read the batman spawn crossover by miller and mcfarlane? no otehr writer captured batman so perfectly. that's exactly his power level.

[zur en arrh]

I personally love 'Batgod'. I do like being reminded sometimes that Bruce is a mortal man that can be defeated like anyone else, but at the same time, I love that he is always prepared for whatever is coming, and can outsmart 95% of anything he comes across. It's his undying will and his unmatched courage, strength, and intellect that makes him so appealing to me. And when a villain is cunning enough to outsmart him or defeat him, even for the briefest of moments, it really sells said villain to me as a legitimate threat not just to Bruce, but to all mankind. Because afterall, if Batman can't defeat you, who on Earth can?

It's these characteristics that really make Bruce my favorite hero. I know a lot of people dislike when people write him as 'Batgod', but I don't think I'd rather have it any other way.

[Dragen]

While I loved the SuperBat that was portraied in a recent Superman/Batman storyarc (Batman with Superman's powers), Batman's powers should only be meassured in human scale, not superhuman/alien scale.
He's Man Prime. Faster, stronger, smarter than most humans. He's not the fastest, strongest or smartest of us, which is why he's so great at what he does.
He knows that he can be beaten, which means that he's working with his weaknesses and not against them. And that makes him probably the most dangerous man you can go up against.

This goes for Bruce, ofcourse.

[mgs]

batgod sucks. and the way he's written, it always seems to forget about the playboy and human aspect of the character and in it's place is someone who just knows everything which makes for a very boring story. he doesn't do detective work anymore, nor does he have to be a public figure, he just has and knows everything.

for the reader, that sucks.

[dancj]

In JLA and other superhero comics I love Batgod. In his own comics I prefer someone a bit more down to earth

[dumbstruck]

I'm in the "Batgod is ridiculous" camp. I have no problem with Batman being smart enough to overcome virtually any obstacle, but I draw that line at him being able to plan ahead of time for every eventuality. RIP's subconscious back-up personality was the dumbest thing I've ever read in comics.

[dreyga2000]

RIP's subconscious back-up personality was the dumbest thing I've ever read in comics.

It's not the first time he's done that in a story where Bruce was confronted by Hugo Strange he reverted into a fabricated personality in which was Bruce Wayne completely devoid of the Batman Persona and the memroies it entailed...

So it's not completely without president.....

[CocktailXYZ]

I'm in the "Batgod is ridiculous" camp. I have no problem with Batman being smart enough to overcome virtually any obstacle, but I draw that line at him being able to plan ahead of time for every eventuality

That sums up my thoughts perfectly.

He's highly intelligent but not clairvoyant.

[Sn4tcH]

In JLA and other superhero comics I love Batgod. In his own comics I prefer someone a bit more down to earth

That brings up an intersting point. I mean when Batman's in the JLA he's basically a mortal in the presence of gods. If he didn't step it up to "batgod" levels, it would almost be unbelievable to have him in the group. Otherwise he's basically just the JLA lab dude.

[dumbstruck]

It's not the first time he's done that in a story where Bruce was confronted by Hugo Strange he reverted into a fabricated personality in which was Bruce Wayne completely devoid of the Batman Persona and the memroies it entailed...

So it's not completely without president.....

Whoever thought up the idea first, it's still a stupid idea.

[Jorriss]

That brings up an intersting point. I mean when Batman's in the JLA he's basically a mortal in the presence of gods. If he didn't step it up to "batgod" levels, it would almost be unbelievable to have him in the group. Otherwise he's basically just the JLA lab dude.
Yeah, it makes sense in a comic world but for those who really get into the comic while reading it feels too inconsistent - at least for me. He's talented and all in Batman/Detective comics, but consider how Batman thinks Nightwing is his equal, could you ever see Nightwing doing the Batgod shenanigans?

[Sn4tcH]

Yeah, it makes sense in a comic world but for those who really get into the comic while reading it feels too inconsistent - at least for me. He's talented and all in Batman/Detective comics, but consider how Batman thinks Nightwing is his equal, could you ever see Nightwing doing the Batgod shenanigans?

No, of course not. I think I'm saying that I, and probably most other hardcore Batman fans, care about the character continuity. Batman acts a certain way, and that's how he should always act. Period.

But then authors want to do stuff like put Batman in the JLA, and in that case you probably have to make Batman step it up a notch, become over powered, and make all the fans sad sad pandas.

I guess that presents the question of whether or not Batman should be in stuff like the JLA, when in all honesty (and reality), he can't keep up. (Batman's not alone on this either. I basically mean this for all heroes who use their natural abilities and don't have "super powers")

[dumbstruck]

No, of course not. I think I'm saying that I, and probably most other hardcore Batman fans, care about the character continuity. Batman acts a certain way, and that's how he should always act. Period.

But then authors want to do stuff like put Batman in the JLA, and in that case you probably have to make Batman step it up a notch, become over powered, and make all the fans sad sad pandas.

I guess that presents the question of whether or not Batman should be in stuff like the JLA, when in all honesty (and reality), he can't keep up. (Batman's not alone on this either. I basically mean this for all heroes who use their natural abilities and don't have "super powers")

I'm reminded of the "Just Us League of Super-Heroes" on Tiny Toons in which Bat-Duck was denied membership because he wasn't super enough.

[Jorriss]

I'm reminded of the "Just Us League of Super-Heroes" on Tiny Toons in which Bat-Duck was denied membership because he wasn't super enough.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeT1t0lQn5Q

This too.

So I was thinking about it, best way to portray Batman in the JL and make him useful is the way he was shown in Kingdom Come, man I love that version of Batman.

[Andreas Tanis]

There are a lot of people out there who don't like Batman for the simple fact that he has no powers, when in fact that's what's most interesting about him. I think that he should always be at peak human strength considering the training he went through pre Batman, and that's it. He doesn't ever really need to have anything close to superpowers.

[StormWatch]

Kingdom Come/ The Dark Knight Returns are the best versions of Batman and contrary to a lot of posts here Batman is smarter than most of the people in the world bordering on the universe. Batgod? Well maybe but often people with Super powers think a little too highly of themselves and thats where Bats gets his edge. The best Batman stuff was around The Killing Joke/The Dark Knight Returns. Sometimes there just isn't a replacement for just good higher thinking.

[dreyga2000]

But then authors want to do stuff like put Batman in the JLA, and in that case you probably have to make Batman step it up a notch, become over powered, and make all the fans sad sad pandas.

I must ask what exactly are the crazy things he does in the JLA that are so godly.... Specific examples, please...

I've read all of JLA vol.3 and nothing really springs into my mind as Batgodly save for Tower of Babel.... The only other instances Batman high-end feats that I can reall occur within his title...Such as defeating Amazo, battling Superman etc...

[AiyokuSama]

Do guy guys like him as Batgod where he can defeat everyone on the JL spontaneously

I have trouble answering this question because I don't see it as "spontaneously." Instead he's spent a lot of time and resources to come up with his counter measures. His ability to plan for an eventual is his great strength and is what lets him stand on even footing with the various metas out there.

[AiyokuSama]

Whoever thought up the idea first, it's still a stupid idea.

Why? I loved that arc in Gotham Nights, especially since it focused not only on Bruce as just Bruce Wayne, but also Tim and Dick trying to figure out how to deal with a Bruce that isn't Batman.

[Pól Rua]

No, of course not. I think I'm saying that I, and probably most other hardcore Batman fans, care about the character continuity. Batman acts a certain way, and that's how he should always act. Period.

Couldn't disagree more.
I like stories, and I like the fact that Batman as a fairly generic masked action hero can slip easily from adventure stories to mysteries to science fiction to full-on superhero blockbusters to horror to espionage to whatever...

Also, I love the goofy old Dick Sprang stuff, but I also love the 70's Adams/Rogers stuff, so I've no difficulties in reconciling subtle differences in character.

The Batman I like is skilled. He thinks quickly and is ingenious. He relies on his own skills, ingenuity and physical prowess rather than a bunch of toys and gadgets. He uses his environment.
He's a human being, a detective. He thinks quickly and acts without hesitation.
He pretends at times to be utterly ruthless, but he's actually very humane. He sees his role as a protector, not an avenger... he's not trying to avenge his parents' deaths as trying to stop other people from suffering what happened to him.

As you can guess, I'm not a big fan of Batgod, but I find Batdick even more obnoxious.

[dumbstruck]

Why? I loved that arc in Gotham Nights, especially since it focused not only on Bruce as just Bruce Wayne, but also Tim and Dick trying to figure out how to deal with a Bruce that isn't Batman.


The idea that he's programmed himself with a back-up personality is absurd. I can buy that he's smart enough to figure out everything as problems arise, but not that he's planned for every possible eventuality ahead of time. Batman's figured out a plan to beat Satan himself? Yeah, right.:rolleyes:

[dancj]

I must ask what exactly are the crazy things he does in the JLA that are so godly.... Specific examples, please...

Offhand,

The way he took down the Martians single handedly in the first arc.

The way would have taken down the Shaggy Man using hypnosis if Superman hadn't burst in on him.

[AiyokuSama]

The idea that he's programmed himself with a back-up personality is absurd.

I disagree. That's exactly the sort of obsessiveness that I expect from him. After all, this is a man that dresses up as a bat to scare criminals.

By the way, have you read that arc? I thought they explained Bruce's reasoning very well.

[NickFury90]

I must ask what exactly are the crazy things he does in the JLA that are so godly.... Specific examples, please...


Aw man, did you miss the entire Morrison JLA?

1. The first issue, all the JLA are in a meeting, except Batman. J'onn says there still waiting for Batman, somebody says "I'm here" off panel. BAM its Batman. "I've been here over a hour". Superman looks at him and says, "funny, I didn't sense your heartbeat". Batman replies with "Hh. Device worked."

2. When all the JLA are captured except Batman, the fake-Authroity believe they have won, because Bats has no super powers. One of the White Martians(who all have Superman-level strength) goes after Batman. He didn't report back. Leader dude gets pissed and sends more after him, ranting "Batman! Batman! He's only a MAN!" with Superman smiles in the background.The first Martian who fought Batman is tied up, "Ho Ho Ho" Die Hard style, with the sign "I know your secret". The Martians find Batman, but they believe they smell something. They walk into a ring of some kind of liquid to get closer to Batman. Batman confidently tells them he's about to own their asses, and throws a match towards the liquid, which is gasoline. He cracks his knuckles, flames in the background, "Ready when you are".

3. In a dark alternate future where Darkseid's taken over, Batman spent seven years under torture at the hands of Desaad and won. Then he outsmarted an alternate universe Metron, saying that he is suppose to know everything, but he has no idea what it feels to be human. Metron turns himself mortal, leaving batman to PUNCH HIM THE **** OUT. He also says that badass line that can't quite recall right before Darkseid hits him with the Omega Beams, which is much cooler than "Gotcha" in FC.

4. Later, back in the regular timeline where the JLA are fighting Lex Luthor and his Legion of Doom, Batman(or more over, Bruce Wayne) uses his "initiative" to get THREE guys over to his side, including Plastic Man pretending to be the Joker, Mirror Master, and Green Arrow.

5. Batman's second fight with Prometheus. Prometheus's helmet lets him upload skills. The first time he fought Batman, it was with the skills of the twelve greatest martial artists on the planet (including Batman himself). The second time, Batman switched the discs, giving Prometheus the physical abilities of "Professor Stephen Hawking!" as he punches him so hard the helmet explodes! Huntress walks in and says "Did I see you...cheating?" "Winning. Funny, first time I hit a man with Motor Neuron Disease." Yeah, for some reason I don't believe that Batman...

6. JLA Classified #1-3 is like everything great about superheroes compressed into 3 issues. Fake Authority come down from their floating utopia to stop a Gorilla Grodd invasion since most of the JLA is lost in another dimension('cept Batman of course). When Neh-bu-Lah steps into the picture, they start getting their ass kicked and Gorrilla Grodd takes over the floating utopia, leaving the Squire to call for help. Batman answers, telling Alfred "I'm going into my sci-fi closet Alfred. Don't tell my friends at the GCPD about this." Dudes got like Bootubes, flying saucers, Thaganrian wings, etc. When the Squire is flying off on his hoverbike to escape the army of jetpack gorillas, Batman save her in his flying saucer(that might be the most awesome sentence ever by the way). He takes her back to his home, where he has built a ROBOT JLA. Ya know, just in case. They get THEIR ass kicked too. Batman is tied up over a fire, with Gorilla Grodd monologuing over how he's gonna eat him and how he is gonna have a dynasty of apes rule Gorillapolis. He turns his back for like...5 seconds, turns back around and Batman is already free. Then comes one of my favorite panels ever, with Batman kicking a giant talking Gorilla in the balls with a badass one-liner:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10854986@N08/1707503310/

Awesome.

[dumbstruck]

I disagree. That's exactly the sort of obsessiveness that I expect from him. After all, this is a man that dresses up as a bat to scare criminals.

By the way, have you read that arc? I thought they explained Bruce's reasoning very well.


That sort of obsessiveness is what's earned him the label "Bat-God". It's just too much. The idea he's able to use such a ridiculous scheme to outsmart Satan is ludicrous.

And yes, I read that arc. As I said, it's the dumbest thing I've ever read in comics in more than 20 yrs of reading. I can't wait for the next crisis when RIP gets retconned. Are there anymore Superboy's trapped anywhere that punch reality and change history? As dumb as the reality punch was, if it erased RIP, as well as all examples of "Bat-God", we'd at least get a version of Batman that is relatable and interesting.

[Jorriss]

I have trouble answering this question because I don't see it as "spontaneously." Instead he's spent a lot of time and resources to come up with his counter measures. His ability to plan for an eventual is his great strength and is what lets him stand on even footing with the various metas out there.
Yeah it isn't spontaneously but he made a comment in Tower of Babel where he could beat any of them without planning except Superman, because he was the best of them, etc, etc. It is kind of meaningless comment though as it's never backed so who knows?

Thing about Batgod for me is, I like to think the JLA and Gotham exist in the same world and it's really hard to believe any crime goes down in Gotham with Batgod, but he's never Batgod in Gotham and I particularly dislike the inconsistency inaddition to just how overdone the character is.

Kingdom come batman in the JLA plus Dark Victory style Batman in Gotham, ahhhh nice...

[Brother Justin Crowe]

I'm in the "Batgod is ridiculous" camp. I have no problem with Batman being smart enough to overcome virtually any obstacle, but I draw that line at him being able to plan ahead of time for every eventuality. RIP's subconscious back-up personality was the dumbest thing I've ever read in comics.

Yes yes yes. Sometimes I feel like Grant needs to be reminded that Bruce Wayne is under the Batman cowl, not Michael Scofield or David Xanatos.

[dumbstruck]

Yes yes yes. Sometimes I feel like Grant needs to be reminded that Bruce Wayne is under the Batman cowl, not Michael Scofield or David Xanatos.


Michael Scofield or David Xanatos. LOL. :biggrin:

[Brian888]

I personally believe that Batman works best when he's purely a street-level hero-detective concerned with keeping Gotham safe. Villains like Poison Ivy and Killer Croc should define the top-end of what Batman can credibly defeat by himself. These are the kinds of Batman stories I find most interesting and compelling. They keep the character in touch with why he exists in the first place. It's perfectly fine for him to be the World's Greatest Detective, but he apply that power almost entirely to Gotham, which badly needs it. Batman should never wander too far from Crime Alley.

To the extent that he's even involved with the JLA, I think it should be in a strictly advisory capacity, lending them his incredible detective skills when needed. This would still allow characters like Superman to flex their genius-level intellects (which is sadly not often the case when Batgod is around) while at the same time recognizing that there is indeed one area where Batman is simply the best: criminology and detection. Otherwise, Batman should for the most part simply refuse any requests to go on missions with the JLA that would take him away from Gotham.

[dumbstruck]

To the extent that he's even involved with the JLA, I think it should be in a strictly advisory capacity, lending them his incredible detective skills when needed. This would still allow characters like Superman to flex their genius-level intellects (which is sadly not often the case when Batgod is around) while at the same time recognizing that there is indeed one area where Batman is simply the best: criminology and detection. Otherwise, Batman should for the most part simply refuse any requests to go on missions with the JLA that would take him away from Gotham.

Superman shouldn't have genius level intellect. If he's super-smart, there's no need for him to seek advice from Batman or Oracle or Mr. Terrific or anyone else when there's a problem he can't solve. While it was mentioned in OYL, I'm glad Johns, Busiek and Robinson have not been playing it up.

[Brian888]

Superman shouldn't have genius level intellect. If he's super-smart, there's no need for him to seek advice from Batman or Oracle or Mr. Terrific or anyone else when there's a problem he can't solve. While it was mentioned in OYL, I'm glad Johns, Busiek and Robinson have not been playing it up.


You realize that there are different fields of endeavor in which people can be geniuses, right? Reed Richards is widely regarded as the biggest brain in comics, and even he consults with others who are more expert in their narrow field than he is (e.g., Otto Octavius and radiation). Making Superman a scientific genius doesn't automatically make him a genius at detection and criminology.

[AiyokuSama]

That sort of obsessiveness is what's earned him the label "Bat-God". It's just too much.

I guess I just have a higher standard for godhood <shrugs> because I just dont' see that as enough to earn him that moniker "BatGod." To me, he's just a very smart human man who has taken the boyscout motto to the absolute extreme.

The idea he's able to use such a ridiculous scheme to outsmart Satan is ludicrous.

This seems to be a sticking point for you. I'm not convinced he defeated any such being.

And yes, I read that arc.

So what specifically about it was problematic?

[AiyokuSama]

Yeah it isn't spontaneously but he made a comment in Tower of Babel where he could beat any of them without planning except Superman, because he was the best of them, etc, etc.

Do you have the page? I have yet to pick up the trade and would like to see it.

Now, having just admitted to not knowing that particular scene, my first thought was: That's cus he's already done all the planning.

It wouldn't surprise me if he had goodies in his belt to handle the basics and could be cobbled together to handle other things.

but he's never Batgod in Gotham

I don't agree with the description of Batgod, but that said, his obsessive readiness has been seen in Gotham, such as with the Hugo strange story in Gotham Knights I've been discussing with the other poster. One could make a similar statement about War Games.

His satellite caves are a good example of his learning from experience (Knightfall) and making sure he's ready next time.

[dumbstruck]

I guess I just have a higher standard for godhood <shrugs> because I just dont' see that as enough to earn him that moniker "BatGod." To me, he's just a very smart human man who has taken the boyscout motto to the absolute extreme.

It's just the most recent example. The fact that it's been taken to such an extreme is what the problem is. By having him be "Bat-God", no criminal or villainous situation should last more than 30 seconds, as he's already got a plan for every conceivable action said villain could take. It also becomes deus ex machina storytelling. The writer writes himself into a corner, and has Batman miraculously solve the riddle because he's already planned for it. Batman is not as interesting as he used to be. It used to be so much of reading a Batman comic was about him actually detecting. Using his skills to solve the crime. Following the trail of evidence. That's what made the Moench/Grant years on Batman and 'Tec so great. Even Rucka kept to this standard. Now, Batman just pulls out whatever gadget that he's built beforehand, and boom, story is done. The idea of Bruce's mind being broken is an interesting one, but having a back-up personality kick in until his mind is able to reset itself is convenient storytelling, not compelling storytelling.

This seems to be a sticking point for you. I'm not convinced he defeated any such being.

You do realize Black Hand is widely understood to be the devil, don't you?

So what specifically about it was problematic?

RIP was a mess. Poor storytelling all around with a deus ex machina resolution and a tacked on ending that made little sense in relation to the rest of the story, such as it was. IMO, epic fail.

Just my two cents.

[celticguy]

Superman shouldn't have genius level intellect. If he's super-smart, there's no need for him to seek advice from Batman or Oracle or Mr. Terrific or anyone else when there's a problem he can't solve. While it was mentioned in OYL, I'm glad Johns, Busiek and Robinson have not been playing it up.

well if not for his being so smart he would not be able to stop all those Luthor machines of doom that he has over the years.

Just because he is super smart it does not mean he knows everything or is the best to figure out every mystery or puzzle.

Batman is pretty smart but he defers to Dr. Midnight on medical mysteries.

[dumbstruck]

well if not for his being so smart he would not be able to stop all those Luthor machines of doom that he has over the years.

Just because he is super smart it does not mean he knows everything or is the best to figure out every mystery or puzzle.

Batman is pretty smart but he defers to Dr. Midnight on medical mysteries.


The point being if he has super-intellect, he can learn medicine or deduction skills. And him being Superman, he could do so in a matter of seconds. Super-intelligence is a can of worms that is best left with the lid on.

[Brian888]

The point being if he has super-intellect, he can learn medicine or deduction skills. And him being Superman, he could do so in a matter of seconds. Super-intelligence is a can of worms that is best left with the lid on.

Why would it matter if he could learn the basics of criminology or deduction, which he probably already knows? He still wouldn't be as good at it as Batman, who has honed his skills through many, many years of obsessive focus and practice. Like I said before, just because a character is a genius in some respect doesn't mean he is automatically the best there is in every mental endeavor, or that he could become the best with almost no effort.

[Karl O'Neill]

Batman is pretty smart but he defers to Dr. Midnight on medical mysteries.

I think sometimes that is an editorial mandate. d r midnite turns up in everybody's titles because DC need to tell you and all new comers that their medical superhero is dr midnite. and what is the best way to reinforce this idea. By having him show up everywhere.

[celticguy]

I think sometimes that is an editorial mandate. d r midnite turns up in everybody's titles because DC need to tell you and all new comers that their medical superhero is dr midnite. and what is the best way to reinforce this idea. By having him show up everywhere.

whatever the reason when he did an autopsy on who he thought was Green Arrow he assisted Dr. Midnight. Same way he has turned to , Mr. Terrific Steel or the Atom for really hard core science.

[celticguy]

The point being if he has super-intellect, he can learn medicine or deduction skills. And him being Superman, he could do so in a matter of seconds. Super-intelligence is a can of worms that is best left with the lid on.


Well anyone can learn anything if they apply themselves to it. Just because he can learn it does not mean he is going to dedicate the time to do so. He has deductive skils he has been a pretty good investigative journalist (of course super hearing and xray vison would be good to) in the past. He has understood some pretty complicated devices of Luthor, toyman and Braniac and has been able to disable them. That does not mean he has the ability to create them from scratch just that he can some what keep up.

he was sjut able to keep lois alive my using his heat vison on her heart it does not maen he is ready to do a heart transplant, justthat he has a pretty good knowledge of the human body.

[dreyga2000]

First I must give.... Kudos on the work....

1. The first issue, all the JLA are in a meeting, except Batman. J'onn says there still waiting for Batman, somebody says "I'm here" off panel. BAM its Batman. "I've been here over a hour". Superman looks at him and says, "funny, I didn't sense your heartbeat". Batman replies with "Hh. Device worked."

Okay, I forgot that one....

2. When all the JLA are captured except Batman, the fake-Authroity believe they have won, because Bats has no super powers. One of the White Martians(who all have Superman-level strength) goes after Batman. He didn't report back. Leader dude gets pissed and sends more after him, ranting "Batman! Batman! He's only a MAN!" with Superman smiles in the background.The first Martian who fought Batman is tied up, "Ho Ho Ho" Die Hard style, with the sign "I know your secret". The Martians find Batman, but they believe they smell something. They walk into a ring of some kind of liquid to get closer to Batman. Batman confidently tells them he's about to own their asses, and throws a match towards the liquid, which is gasoline. He cracks his knuckles, flames in the
background, "Ready when you are".

Defating White Martians with fire is hardly a feat... Anyone should be able to do it... It's not outside of his normal powerset in the slightest....


3. In a dark alternate future where Darkseid's taken over, Batman spent seven years under torture at the hands of Desaad and won. Then he outsmarted an alternate universe Metron, saying that he is suppose to know everything, but he has no idea what it feels to be human. Metron turns himself mortal, leaving batman to PUNCH HIM THE **** OUT. He also says that badass line that can't quite recall right before Darkseid hits him with the Omega Beams, which is much cooler than "Gotcha" in FC.

Alternate futures... don't really count...

4. Later, back in the regular timeline where the JLA are fighting Lex Luthor and his Legion of Doom, Batman(or more over, Bruce Wayne) uses his "initiative" to get THREE guys over to his side, including Plastic Man pretending to be the Joker, Mirror Master, and Green Arrow.

Hmmm... I'm not sure if I 100% agree but I can see how this can be seen as a Batgod moment....

5. Batman's second fight with Prometheus. Prometheus's helmet lets him upload skills. The first time he fought Batman, it was with the skills of the twelve greatest martial artists on the planet (including Batman himself). The second time, Batman switched the discs, giving Prometheus the physical abilities of "Professor Stephen Hawking!" as he punches him so hard the helmet explodes! Huntress walks in and says "Did I see you...cheating?" "Winning. Funny, first time I hit a man with Motor Neuron Disease." Yeah, for some reason I don't believe that Batman...

Switching discs hardly rates on the same level of ridculousness as deafeating a robot with powers of JLA... Anyone could have done it provided they have knowlegde of Prothemus's tactics


6. JLA Classified #1-3 is like everything great about superheroes compressed into 3 issues. Fake Authority come down from their floating utopia to stop a Gorilla Grodd invasion since most of the JLA is lost in another dimension('cept Batman of course). When Neh-bu-Lah steps into the picture, they start getting their ass kicked and Gorrilla Grodd takes over the floating utopia, leaving the Squire to call for help. Batman answers, telling Alfred "I'm going into my sci-fi closet Alfred. Don't tell my friends at the GCPD about this." Dudes got like Bootubes, flying saucers, Thaganrian wings, etc. When the Squire is flying off on his hoverbike to escape the army of jetpack gorillas, Batman save her in his flying saucer(that might be the most awesome sentence ever by the way). He takes her back to his home, where he has built a ROBOT JLA. Ya know, just in case. They get THEIR ass kicked too. Batman is tied up over a fire, with Gorilla Grodd monologuing over how he's gonna eat him and how he is gonna have a dynasty of apes rule Gorillapolis. He turns his back for like...5 seconds, turns back around and Batman is already free. Then comes one of my favorite panels ever, with Batman kicking a giant talking Gorilla in the balls with a badass one-liner:

I agree with you on this.... Pretty Good Example....

Ultimately, I still think his feats in JLA pale comparison to the insane logic-defying stuff that has occured in his own title....

[Jorriss]

I agree with you on this.... Pretty Good Example....
....
LOL which issue does that take place in? Kickin Grodd in the balls that is.

[dreyga2000]

LOL which issue does that take place in? Kickin Grodd in the balls that is.

JLA Classfied #3...

[Paladin573]

Batman should always win the best 2 out of 3

[NickFury90]

Well yeah, anybody can do it, but the fact that he did something all the other JLA couldn't is something to admire, particularly to figure out who they really are in such a quick fashion.

[dreyga2000]

As far as I'm concerned as long as the feats that Batman pull are logical and don't make him seem phyiscally super-human or mentally super-genuis... (within some degree) I really have no problem with them...

I feel the way he defeats superhuman foes,with rare expection, are often very logical ways of using their weaknesses against them....

Here some pages depicting Batman's personal notes on possible counter measures for defeating various super heroes and they generally make sense....Given all the money he has and the technology Wayne Indsturies has access to...


http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww65/dreyga2000/jla_secretfiles_003_17.jpg

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww65/dreyga2000/jla_secretfiles_003_21.jpg

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww65/dreyga2000/jla_secretfiles_003_14.jpg

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww65/dreyga2000/jla_secretfiles_003_07.jpg

[AiyokuSama]

The fact that it's been taken to such an extreme is what the problem is.

And this is where I disagree, I see no problem.

By having him be "Bat-God", no criminal or villainous situation should last more than 30 seconds, as he's already got a plan for every conceivable action said villain could take.

So? They still require timing, set up, people actually being in a position to make it work. And then there is Bruce's own moral compass. He believes in being READY for situations, but he waits until a law is broken or a threat is evident.

Also, you seem to be ignoring the basic fact that time is compressed in comics.

The writer writes himself into a corner, and has Batman miraculously solve the riddle because he's already planned for it.

There is nothing "miraculous" about it. It's not even about planning. it's about applying his intellect and experience.

There is a world of difference between solving a mystery and preparing for an invasion or someone mind controlling the JLA...or a gang war in Gotham.

You do realize Black Hand is widely understood to be the devil, don't you?

Yes, and I'm not interested. A) it doesn't fit with Batman mythos and B) I don't need to swallow every story line to enjoy the comics and characters over all.

RIP was a mess.

I wasn't asking you about RIP, which you seem quite fixated on. I'm asking you about the Hugo Strange story in Gotham Knights.

[dancj]

Alternate futures... don't really count...
Why not? This wasn't an alternate reality or anything like that. It was the future of the mainstream DCU Batman.

[Joe Rice]

Whatever serves the story. He can be amazingly powerful or just a man in a costume. A good writer can make it work either way. Having hard and fast rules for things and characters that don't exist is dumb and limiting. Shitty writers will write shitty stories either way. A good writer deserves freedom.

[dumbstruck]

Well anyone can learn anything if they apply themselves to it. Just because he can learn it does not mean he is going to dedicate the time to do so. He has deductive skils he has been a pretty good investigative journalist (of course super hearing and xray vison would be good to) in the past. He has understood some pretty complicated devices of Luthor, toyman and Braniac and has been able to disable them. That does not mean he has the ability to create them from scratch just that he can some what keep up.

he was sjut able to keep lois alive my using his heat vison on her heart it does not maen he is ready to do a heart transplant, justthat he has a pretty good knowledge of the human body.


I'm not saying he's going to do these things, much less DC let it happen. But with super-intellect, there's nothing logically stopping him from becoming a better detective than Batman, or a better super-hero surgeon than Dr. Midnite. As I said, super-intellect is better left not used.

[dumbstruck]

And this is where I disagree, I see no problem.



So? They still require timing, set up, people actually being in a position to make it work. And then there is Bruce's own moral compass. He believes in being READY for situations, but he waits until a law is broken or a threat is evident.

Also, you seem to be ignoring the basic fact that time is compressed in comics.



There is nothing "miraculous" about it. It's not even about planning. it's about applying his intellect and experience.

There is a world of difference between solving a mystery and preparing for an invasion or someone mind controlling the JLA...or a gang war in Gotham.



Yes, and I'm not interested. A) it doesn't fit with Batman mythos and B) I don't need to swallow every story line to enjoy the comics and characters over all.



I wasn't asking you about RIP, which you seem quite fixated on. I'm asking you about the Hugo Strange story in Gotham Knights.


I've been referring to RIP since the beginning. Not sure why you even brought up Hugo Strange. It's a moot point anyways. I don't remember the story.

Have to disagree about your view of him planning. It is a writer's crutch. Anytime a writer doesn't know how to end the story, Batman can win with a seemingly miraculous and illogical plot contrivance with the excuse being he planned for it ahead of time. It's a way for lazy writers to finish their story.

[celticguy]

I'm not saying he's going to do these things, much less DC let it happen. But with super-intellect, there's nothing logically stopping him from becoming a better detective than Batman, or a better super-hero surgeon than Dr. Midnite. As I said, super-intellect is better left not used.


So if he has the ability to learn things and is smart enough to understand stuff it would be bad. A lot of heros could become better if they applied themselves to a specific field of study, they chose to be productive by being heros instead.

Supes probably could become a better surgeon given his super vison and hearing and the speed at which he could complete the surgery. That does not mean he is going to stop and go to medical school and stop being superman.

He might be able to know more things than Batman but he would be hard pressed to be a better detective since much of Bruce's ability comes from his obsession. It is a 10% talent 90% seat kind of thing. That said he is pretty sharp as he has been able to sniff out the plans of some pretty smart super villians.

I will never get the desire for superman to be a muscle head.

[celticguy]

Well yeah, anybody can do it, but the fact that he did something all the other JLA couldn't is something to admire, particularly to figure out who they really are in such a quick fashion.

I think that is the benefit of no powers. I think he caught on when the martians stayed back from the fire. If he had powers he might be in the middle of the fire rather than on the edge seeing the big picture and small details that others might miss.

[AiyokuSama]

I've been referring to RIP since the beginning. Not sure why you even brought up Hugo Strange.

I told you before. It's proof that it's been done before and his creating alternate personalities is not something new.

I don't remember the story.

*blinkblink* Then why on earth are you complaining about it?

I suggest you go back and read not only my posts, but your own as well.

Have to disagree about your view of him planning.

Which part? I made to points in regards to planning and set up.

It is a writer's crutch. Anytime a writer doesn't know how to end the story, Batman can win with a seemingly miraculous and illogical plot contrivance with the excuse being he planned for it ahead of time. It's a way for lazy writers to finish their story.

Like ignoring points made is the way for lazy posters?

I and others have already addressed this claim of yours and you act as if you haven't bothered to read them.

There is nothing miraculous or illogical about the JLA stories mentioned, not the Gotham Knights, War Games or any of hundred others. That you can't seem to let go of RIP in no way diminishes this.

[dumbstruck]

So if he has the ability to learn things and is smart enough to understand stuff it would be bad.
Didn't say that.
A lot of heros could become better if they applied themselves to a specific field of study, they chose to be productive by being heros instead.

Supes probably could become a better surgeon given his super vison and hearing and the speed at which he could complete the surgery. That does not mean he is going to stop and go to medical school and stop being superman.
Didn't I just say that?

He might be able to know more things than Batman but he would be hard pressed to be a better detective since much of Bruce's ability comes from his obsession. It is a 10% talent 90% seat kind of thing. That said he is pretty sharp as he has been able to sniff out the plans of some pretty smart super villians.

I will never get the desire for superman to be a muscle head.
Never said I wanted him to be a muscle head either.


I think you've completely missed my point.

[celticguy]

I think you've completely missed my point.


Other than superman should not be smart you really have not made one.

[dumbstruck]

I told you before. It's proof that it's been done before and his creating alternate personalities is not something new.

Just because it's been done before, doesn't mean it should've been done again. Much less done in the first place. A dumb idea is a dumb idea.

*blinkblink* Then why on earth are you complaining about it?

I'm not complaining about it. I'm speaking to RIP, which I've already stated.

I suggest you go back and read not only my posts, but your own as well.

Ditto

Which part? I made to points in regards to planning and set up.



Like ignoring points made is the way for lazy posters?

I and others have already addressed this claim of yours and you act as if you haven't bothered to read them.

You've addressed nothing. I've stated my opinion. Nothing more. As have you.

There is nothing miraculous or illogical about the JLA stories mentioned, not the Gotham Knights, War Games or any of hundred others. That you can't seem to let go of RIP in no way diminishes this.
Again, I use RIP as it's the most recent example of the "Bat-God" writers crutch. Any time any writer uses the "Batman already planned for it" excuse, I roll my eyes and wonder what ever happened to writers who could actually write a detective story. War Games was equally ridiculous, which is why as far as I've seen, it's not very highly regarded by fans.


If you enjoy stories about Bat-God, than good for you. For myself, I'd prefer to read stories about BatMan. You won't convince me the invincible Bruce Wayne is necessarily good writing, and I won't convince you otherwise. Agree to disagree.

[Will44]

I'm going with Lunal's description. He's good but he's not perfect and he certainly does not know everything. And when I say know everything, I mean in terms of what every single bad guy is doing at a given point and time. That's just absurd.

100% agree. Uberbats is one scary dude and doesn't make sense. Batman shouldn't be able to recite Pi to the 5,000 decimal, and even if he COULD, it's not something he should be able to use to beat the Joker.

Batman is just a man. he should be the pinnacle of human fitness and he should be scary smart, but he shouldn't be unbeatable.

[dumbstruck]

Other than superman should not be smart you really have not made one.


Further proof that you haven't read my posts.

I never said he shouldn't be smart. I said he shouldn't have super-intellect. It's a ridiculous power that allows Superman to do or accomplish anything. It's a "whatever-you-can-do-I-can-do-better" power. It makes him virtually omniscient. Isn't he powerful enough without it? Personally I find a Superman who has to employ the services of STARLabs to develop a cure for Mon-El's lead poisoning more relatable and interesting than one who can zip up to his Fortress of Solitude and do it himself.

[celticguy]

Further proof that you haven't read my posts.

I never said he shouldn't be smart. I said he shouldn't have super-intellect. It's a ridiculous power that allows Superman to do or accomplish anything. It's a "whatever-you-can-do-I-can-do-better" power. It makes him virtually omniscient. Isn't he powerful enough without it? Personally I find a Superman who has to employ the services of STARLabs to develop a cure for Mon-El's lead poisoning more relatable and interesting than one who can zip up to his Fortress of Solitude and do it himself.

It makes zero sense that all cells of his body would be enhanced but not his brain cells. It also makes zeros sense that every time he does one of those flying into the mass falling from space and has a million to one shot to save earth that he has just been lucky and he has not run the calculations so he is reasonably sure he is hitting it in the right location. He has been able to xray human bodies and see illness indicating he has a strong baseline in biology/medicine.

He has received schooling from a older civilzation with more advanced science it is only natural he would have strong skills in the basics of science. he has not pursued a career in science so while he can understand Luthor, brainiac Plamer etc when they discuss things he has not devloped the skills to be able to invent like they can but if he made that his course of study he should be able to.

Batman has shown an abiltiy with medicine and if he had a normal life he might have been a doctor but he poured his time into developing his deductive mind. So while he has a strong baseline knowledge when it is critical he turns to doctors for help.

Same with Superman if he grew up on his world he might have been in science like his dad. He has shown a strong ability to understand the workings of complicated machines from various worlds but it is not his chosen area of expertise. So when he needs help with something medical or science related he defers to those who he respects.

It is not like he is reading a book in 10 seconds and suddenly he is an expert on whatever topic. It is more that his intellect is greater than the average person and he minds moves quicker that most.

That does not mean luthor, Terrific and Palmer at least are not smarter in sciences or Batman is not better at deduction or any of the other top minds in different fields. It only means that superman can keep up with pretty much anyone in most fields because he is pretty damn smart.

A myh last example pre COIE when superman and luthor grew up together. lLuthor had the top grades in every class but english lit (lana lang had that one presumably Luthor did nto bother with such things) Clark Kent was second in every class.

Now that was one retconned example but that is what I mean he is smarter than most not all.

[AiyokuSama]

If you enjoy stories about Bat-God, than good for you. For myself, I'd prefer to read stories about BatMan. You won't convince me the invincible Bruce Wayne is necessarily good writing, and I won't convince you otherwise. Agree to disagree.

<sigh> I'm trying to have a discussion with you, but you seem to be avoiding it at every turn, which is fine, except that you keep posting to me, so I keep TRYING to made a connection.

I don't believe Bruce Wayne IS invincible, that's your shtick.

I don't believe that what he does IS miraculous or illogical, that's your shtick.

I don't see him as any kind of a god, that's your shtick. I'm trying to figure out why you feel that way since when your claims are actually scrutinized, they don't hold up.

So if you want to explain, I'm all ears, but if you don't <shrugs> then I'm very confused as to why you keep posting.

[CocktailXYZ]

I don't believe Bruce Wayne IS invincible, that's your shtick.

Yet, that seems to be exactly how the prepared-for-everything Bruce is portrayed.

Faults are what make characters interesting. A Batman who has figured out the possibility of any event happening, and therefore having planned for it, has already won against all odds before that event has even come to pass.

Seeing him overcome events as they unfold in a reactionary manner makes for more involved storytelling than throwing out a deus ex machina and calling it a day.

[dreyga2000]

I agree invincible Batman is boring but, even Morrison's BatGod can be taken by surprised and killed...

The only reason he survived that man-bat encounter was that the mastermind behind it happened to be his ex-girlfriend.... Otherwise he'd be gwano by now....

Then there was how he was brutally beaten and left for dead by BatBane...And how Lane opted to save his life in order to tortue him...

RIP ending made sense because it was established pretty early that he knew they were coming....

[Jared]

I know they're not really in continuity, but a Batman who can make extra preperations for a superhuman threat the likes of the Predator or Grendel Prime and win by the skin of his teeth is infinitely preferable to a guy who casually takes down Superman-class beings and beats gods at their own areas of expertise.

Unfortunately, real-world concerns demand that Batman be a regular member of the JLA, and the only way for him to function in that capacity is to be Batgod. I pretty much have to divorce the "real" Batman from his own books from the guy with he the similar costume that appears in JLA...and now even Bat titles written by Morrison. A Batman with flying saucers and pre-programmed backup personalities is not a Batman who has trouble with Two-Face and The Riddler. Hell, I hate whenever they acknowledge that he's got a damn teleporter in the Batcave. It just makes him look asinine at best, callous at worst, for not using this stuff in to fight crime in Gotham.

I remember years ago, Morrison's Batgod pretty much ruined any discussion of Bats on the Rumbles board.

The battle with Superman in DKR is pretty much the perfect way to handle that sort of situation. Batgod fans often forget a few details about that fight, like the fact that Superman let Bruce choose the time and place for the showdown. Or that Superman was already messed up by the giant nuke.

Hush is actually another case of good Batman vs. Superman writing. Supes was mind-controlled and trying to resist it. Batman had brought along the kryptonite ring (which is a level of prepardness I can buy), and even so, he wasn't actually winning, just staying alive long for Catwoman to grab Lois.

[MTL76]

I agree with the opinion that the uber-planning that Batman sometimes shows is a bit much. Someone said they'd prefer him to be Batman, not Batgod, and I agree. I don't think he needs to be omniscient to hang in the JLA, he brings enough to the table. And him having a gizmo/super-secret plan for EVERY SINGLE SITUATION can really seem like weak writing.

On the other hand, I do think he should be able to pretty much hang with any martial artist in the DCU. The guy's spent his whole life in training, to an obsessive degree. There's no reason he shouldn't be a contender for the number one slot, right up there with the usual suspects. Just because he may not be the fastest (as compared with Shiva or Batgirl) or the strongest (as compared with Deathstroke) doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to hold his own; out of everyone, he fights the smartest, and by that I don't mean he has to resort to a "deus ex utility belt" to pull out a win, either.

[Pinnacle]

I think I'm kinda in the middle. I personally want Batman to be the same whether he is in his own book or JLA or Superman/Batman.

He should be at the peak of human condition.

I don't mind him being a planner as long as it isn't rididculous. I think he should have the best tactical mind on Earth maybe even the universe. I don't see it being something that makes him completely different whether he is in Gotham or fighting off an invasion of Yellow Lanterns. Like any wise governor he focuses on his local issues but keeps an eye out for what could effect him in the larger picture.

To me, Batman can approach the level of Batgod but yet still have problems with people like Penguin or Two-Face. It's kinda like the United States being able to blow up the world with its nuclear arsenal yet capable of being blindsided by terrorists or serial killers. Batman could probably make Gotham City completely crime free but if he did he'd have to become some sort of dictator and he doesn't want to do that.

[AiyokuSama]

Yet, that seems to be exactly how the prepared-for-everything Bruce is portrayed.

Except that he's not. He likes to think he is, he LOVES for others to think he is, but at the end of the day, he's not. Things still happen and he still can slip up, more often then not because he bought his own propaganda and thought he knew the right direction to go.

So I just don't see him as invincible. The idea makes no sense, since it ignores all those little faults that can lead to big problems.

Add to that the amount of whining that Nightwing fans do whenever their boy gets "punked" I imagine that the same would be true of Bat fans. Basically, it's a no win situation. Right now, I like the balance.

[AiyokuSama]

I don't mind him being a planner as long as it isn't rididculous.

I actually like a little ridiculousness, or as I say "obsessiveness" since I see that as a large facet of his personality. It's not necessarily a healthy one, but then he's a grown man that dresses up to scare criminals ~_^ His having "issues" is part of the character. And part of the fun, I think.

[vitruvian]

So I didn't find any thread like this that was entirely opinion based, and the Towel of Babel thread got me thinking, how powerful should Batman be?

Obviously, he's read the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and knows never to be without his towel.

[dumbstruck]

Yet, that seems to be exactly how the prepared-for-everything Bruce is portrayed.

Faults are what make characters interesting. A Batman who has figured out the possibility of any event happening, and therefore having planned for it, has already won against all odds before that event has even come to pass.

Seeing him overcome events as they unfold in a reactionary manner makes for more involved storytelling than throwing out a deus ex machina and calling it a day.


You've hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what I've been trying to say. Thank you.:biggrin:

[Karl O'Neill]

He should be able to lift a mountain over his head I think.

[dumbstruck]

He should be able to lift a mountain over his head I think.


Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound? Be more powerful than a locomotive? Faster than a speeding bullet?

[Jimmy'sFriend]

Batman should have limits and his writers should have the burden to make sure he uses his wits to stay alive.

He still needs to be able to slug it out with the big boys so maybe he should be have some above average strength.

[Paladin573]

Batman is crazy obsessive-

so yes he will have many contingency plans. So yes he has a little box with varies types of Kryptonite...and yes he worked out a detailed way of taking down almost every super powered person on and off the planet.

But he has to be. He has to crazy obsessive because he is just a man.

With that said writers should not lean on the obsession as a crutch.