Rejuvinate the Spider Franchise?

[jackolover]

I don't know if anything can rejuvenate Spider-Man, except maybe Warren Ellis, making Peter Parkers foes, so bad. The current brains trust is making Spider-Man a light unencumbered read, while this whole Dark Reign is going on all around him.

Any other ideas as to who and why someone else could spruce up the Spider books?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Geoff Johns could....but he's a few years away at DC. He's the only one I can think of who has the good will of older fans , and his fanbase to come on Amazing Spiderman and revamp the franchise. All Marvel can do is hope and pray that someone til then can fix it all.

[Gitaroo_Dude]

The stories are fine right now. And if you're a Dark Reign addict, the next storyline is a Dark Reign storyline involving the Dark Avengers and the Osborn family, written by Joe Kelly, who's in my opinion the best writer on the Braintrust.

But yeah, ASM is pretty good right now, they should stay the course.

Besides, the ASM numbers are fine if you look at them from a realistic perspective. The only non-event books it trails are Wolverine (featuring a superstar team), Uncanny X-Men (flagship title), and Captain America, which is cruising along due to the quality of the title.

Otherwise, the only other books it's behind are the 3 Avengers titles (the core MU books at the moment and the centerpieces for Dark Reign), Ultimatum (event), and Ult. Hulk vs. Wolverine (event-like miniseries featuring two superstats).

Final Edit

And the only DC books it's behind are Battle for the Cowl (Batman event) and JLA (which should never, on principle, be out of the Top 10).

So ASM is also ahead of DC flagship books like Green Lantern and the Superman books too.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

So ASM is also ahead of DC flagship books like Green Lantern and the Superman books too.

Of course its ahead of Green Lantern in the month of March. No issue shipped. But heres the chart from Feb. Not good...its behind pretty much JLA , JSA and the Green Lantern series.




http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/14518.html

[CyberHubbs]

I wouldn't want to see Ellis on ASM. It's not his kind of story. I wouldn't mind seeing him on something like, say, Nova or the Inhumans. That's more his speed.

As for ASM currently, it's not so much the creative team that needs to be fixed. I like the Webheads just fine. Would like to see Spidey interacting with the rest of the MU more. Some guest appearances by a wide selection of characters, A-Z.

[Dr. Chaos]

Warren Ellis?

That would certainly be a hilarious experiment.

Worship the man's Thunderbolts run (that moment where Norman is sitting on the can with the Goblin mask on is perfect on so many levels) but he's definitely not anywhere near a contender for Amazing for me, I'd be all for him taking a whack at a miniseries or the like though.

[Gitaroo_Dude]

Of course its ahead of Green Lantern in the month of March. No issue shipped. But heres the chart from Feb. Not good...its behind pretty much JLA , JSA and the Green Lantern series.




http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/14518.html

How's that bad? Again, JLA should be a flagship title, and the main GL book is gearing up for Blackest Night. And wasn't that the last issue of JSA with Johns and Eaglesham?

Considering the competition and the economy, ASM is doing fine.

[jackolover]

Myself, I think a new writer could creep in a bit of the BND aroma. Aunt May could start to feel sick, and MJ reappear because her aunt is getting remarried. Something that makes the tension of BND rear it's ugly head again. We've had JMS breathe fresh new life in the Spider franchise, but since that great run, it's like Peter has been on vallium. No ones hunting him of any note, and the whole fear of being caught has been drained out of the character. I liked Jeff Parkers little exerpt with Spidey in Agents of Atlas #5, because he used Peter as a scientist, and had Peter contemplating the various alternatives.

I still persist with Warren Ellis, because he would bring back the angst in Spider-Man. Peter's had it so good with the brainstrust, because the only worry he has is meeting next months rent. I would like Peter to worry. Ellis could do this spectacular "Spot", and Lizard, because we could get a rematch with Komodo. And there wouldn't be this pansy Norman Osborn we've had so far in ASM. There would be, in your face Osborn, and the tap doesn't turn off.

I would have thought Dan Slott would bring the tension of the Innitiative into the Spider books, but it never turned out that way.

Fred Van Lente may be another option. His reimaging in Marvel Zombies gave us freshness in a tired Universe.

[Mister Mets]

Amazing Spider-Man #595-600 will likely attract some buzz to the title, so I'm not sure if anything else is that necessary at the moment.

I don't think any major narrative developments are required. I have thought that it's been a mistaken to focus mostly on shorter storylines (1-3 parts) to the detriment of longer stories (5+ parts.) This isn't to suggest that the majority of issues should be portions of bigger stories, but a roughly 50/50 ratio can work. Considering how quickly "Character Assassination" was followed by "American Son" this may be their current approach, and I'm supportive of that.

[remoteman]

Mark Waid seems the most popular writer from the brain trust so far, so I would be curious to see what his plans for a solo run on the title would be. From what I've seen of Marcos Martin he looks to be an excellent, Ditkoesque artist, and I would be totally fine with having him on board permanently as long as he could handle putting out a monthly book.

If these two told a story dealing with the ramifications from the Mephisto deal, and putting the storyline to bed for good I think it would bring a lot of readers back to Amazing Spider-Man.

[Jim Thompson]

Amazing Spider-Man #595-600 will likely attract some buzz to the title, so I'm not sure if anything else is that necessary at the moment.ASM #600 might create a little buzz for the character and the book -- but I don't know as the issues leading up to that will necessarily do that. Why do you think they might?

[Mister Mets]

ASM #600 might create a little buzz for the character and the book -- but I don't know as the issues leading up to that will necessarily do that. Why do you think they might?

The way it ties into what's currently going on in the Marvel Universe.

[Jim Thompson]

The way it ties into what's currently going on in the Marvel Universe.Is there anything going on in the other books that would sort of force a reader to pick up ASM in order to have to follow a story?

[Mister Mets]

Is there anything going on in the other books that would sort of force a reader to pick up ASM in order to have to follow a story?
Well, Dark Avengers is currently Marvel's top-selling book, so I'm pretty sure Marvel's hoping to get at the very least a modest sales increase from a five part story featuring Spider-Man tackling those guys.

[Jim Thompson]

Well, Dark Avengers is currently Marvel's top-selling book, so I'm pretty sure Marvel's hoping to get at the very least a modest sales increase from a five part story featuring Spider-Man tackling those guys.I know I'm probably coming off as being snarky, but I don't read previews, and I haven't picked up a lot of Marvel issues of late. Honestly had no idea DA was guest-starring in an upcoming book. That might help sales a bit.

[Mister Mets]

I'll note that I currently like the writers and artists, so I wouldn't want to rejuvenate the franchise with lay-offs.

One thing the Web Heads might consider is modifyng the schedule a bit. Instead of the thrice-monthly, it might be more attractive to do an actual weekly schedule, with months-long intermissions. Training readers to go to the comic store every week has benefits (including a steady momentum), and the intermission ensures some increased interest in the return of the title, which can help provide an annual rejuvenation of sorts (this can have creative benefits, giving the team a breather to determine what they should do next.) There's also no need for a "six months without the classic villains" type strategy, as after ten or so weeks of no new Spider-Man comics, anything they do would be a big deal.

And there's just something awesome about cliffhangers that have readers speculating for months. That's essentially free publicity.

[Mister Mets]

I know I'm probably coming off as being snarky, but I don't read previews, and I haven't picked up a lot of Marvel issues of late. Honestly had no idea DA was guest-starring in an upcoming book. That might help sales a bit.

In addition, Marvel's promoting the story with stuff like variant covers. I think they're hoping to repeat the success of "New Ways to Die."

[Jim Thompson]

In addition, Marvel's promoting the story with stuff like variant covers. I think they're hoping to repeat the success of "New Ways to Die."Well, doing stuff like that has usually produced a spike in sales. Sadly, this is the sort of stuff that generally drives me away from the book. I don't really care for the Dark Avengers, and I think I've made my feelings known about variant covers enough here for people to know I don't like them, or the idea behind them.

I am looking forward to issue #600, however.

[jackolover]

Mark Waid seems the most popular writer from the brain trust so far, so I would be curious to see what his plans for a solo run on the title would be. From what I've seen of Marcos Martin he looks to be an excellent, Ditkoesque artist, and I would be totally fine with having him on board permanently as long as he could handle putting out a monthly book.

If these two told a story dealing with the ramifications from the Mephisto deal, and putting the storyline to bed for good I think it would bring a lot of readers back to Amazing Spider-Man.


Yes, I can see both those creators and the storyline working.

[Endless Flight]

I am looking forward to issue #600, however.

Don't get your hopes up too high.

As far as picking up readers long-term, I doubt it. Amazing Spider-Man #600 will probably sell 100,000-125,000 copies and then it'll be right back down to 60,000.

[oldschool]

Don't get your hopes up too high.

As far as picking up readers long-term, I doubt it. Amazing Spider-Man #600 will probably sell 100,000-125,000 copies and then it'll be right back down to 60,000.

Speaking for myself, I don't equate what a book sells with enjoyment and so could care less how many copies #600 (or any other issue) sells.

I will say that, with the exception of the Molten Man 2-parter in Dec/Jan, this book has not hit a sour note for me in at least 6 months (or 30-something issues). No "rejuvenation" needed from where I'm sitting.

[Endless Flight]

Speaking for myself, I don't equate what a book sells with enjoyment

I don't think anybody does, do they?

For instance, have you ever heard anybody in a shop say that they enjoyed Grant Morrison's Batman run because it was #1 on the Diamond shipping list every month?

[oldschool]

I don't think anybody does, do they?

For instance, have you ever heard anybody in a shop say that they enjoyed Grant Morrison's Batman run because it was #1 on the Diamond shipping list every month?

No, nor the same for RULK (though everything has it's fans). I am simply pointing out that you are speculating on how much an issue will sell and I am stating that I don't necessarily equate sales with "rejuvenation". Now I look at "rejuvenation" creatively, not sales-wise; if you meant otherwise, my bad.....but, for the record, I don't think ASM needs either at this particular moment.

[Endless Flight]

No, nor the same for RULK (though everything has it's fans). I am simply pointing out that you are speculating on how much an issue will sell and I am stating that I don't necessarily equate sales with "rejuvenation". Now I look at "rejuvenation" creatively, not sales-wise; if you meant otherwise, my bad.....but, for the record, I don't think ASM needs either at this particular moment.

We always speculate about numbers around here. I actually think the anniversary issue will sell well because...it's an anniversary issue, not because the issue will be good or bad.

I also think that it won't do much for long term sales, because anniversary issues usually don't. Sales themselves don't rejuvenate titles, but they are an effect of a rejuvenation. JMS clearly rejuvenated Spider-Man, and the sales showed it. The sales basically doubled right off the bat. Has BND rejuvenated the title? That remains to be seen.

[ShaggyB]

Of course its ahead of Green Lantern in the month of March. No issue shipped. But heres the chart from Feb. Not good...its behind pretty much JLA , JSA and the Green Lantern series.




http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/14518.html

are you shocked.... Green Lantern is gearing up for a giant summer blockbuster arc..... That and its one of the best books out there right now....

[whiteshark]

The Spider Franchise was already rejuvinated with the direction of stories starting in Brand New Day.

With excelent results from what i read so far.

[Jim Thompson]

While I know there are people who are really enjoying the new editorial direction, it strikes me as being fairer to say, just based off sales, that ASM has been successfully restarted rather than having been rejuvinated. The success Loeb is having with Hulk and JMS is having with Thor -- those strike me as being example of books that have been rejuvinated.

[Mister Mets]

I'll add Amazing Spider-Man #601-603 as three issues which will probably gain above-average attention (variant covers, Mary Jane's return.)


While I know there are people who are really enjoying the new editorial direction, it strikes me as being fairer to say, just based off sales, that ASM has been successfully restarted rather than having been rejuvinated. The success Loeb is having with Hulk and JMS is having with Thor -- those strike me as being example of books that have been rejuvinated. I'm unclear from the initial post about whether the thread's supposed to be stuff that we'd like to see as individuals, or what Marvel could do to ensure interest in the titles.

I went with the latter approach, because I have no idea whether my personal tastes make financial sense. Unless a lot of people want to see Dan Slott & Marcos Martin on a Lizard story (whether they want to do it or not.)

[ZeoVGM]

Uh, no one? ASM is great right now. Why would it need to be rejuvinated?

Who cares if ASM is "light" while Dark Reign is going on. We had "dark" Spidey under JMS for a long time. I want it the way it is now, as it should be.

[Jim Thompson]

I'm unclear from the initial post about whether the thread's supposed to be stuff that we'd like to see as individuals, or what Marvel could do to ensure interest in the titles.

I went with the latter approach, because I have no idea whether my personal tastes make financial sense. Unless a lot of people want to see Dan Slott & Marcos Martin on a Lizard story (whether they want to do it or not.)Well, if it's just what I'd like to see from a personal perspective, if I wasn't enjoying what was happening in Thor and Hulk so much right now, I'd almost say it's time for Marvel to have a -- wait for it -- wait for it --

Crisis! :biggrin:

[JaredMilne]

I don't know if anything can rejuvenate Spider-Man, except maybe Warren Ellis, making Peter Parkers foes, so bad. The current brains trust is making Spider-Man a light unencumbered read, while this whole Dark Reign is going on all around him.

Any other ideas as to who and why someone else could spruce up the Spider books?

Dan Slott, Marc Guggenheim, Bob Gale, Fred Van Lente, and Roger Stern all strike me as people who have what it takes to breathe new life into Spider-Man.

The Clone Saga was the death blow, JMS's creative abortion of a run was the nail in the coffin, and the Unmasking was the final shovel of dirt on the grave. The Brain Trust fixed just about everything that was wrong with Spider-Man and restored the heart and soul of the franchise.

And the less the Initiative and Dark Reign infect the spider-comics the way they have the rest of the Marvel Universe, the better. It's because of garbage like this that the Marvel Universe is dying a slow death.



One of the things that bugs me there is how much he tends to stay away from the standard costumed crooks, preferring to give everyone armor, or leather, or makign them a genetic freak. It just takes away some of the fun feeling from the guys and seems rather odd considering nobody seems to have any problem with the main character himself running around in spandex tights.

And this is what made me realize that the Ultimate Universe isn't worth the paper it's printed on.



Trust me, costumed criminals aren't really that cool or fun for the modern generation. That's why most movies ditched the goofy costumes and went with modern redesigns.

The old costumed criminals are the product of your generation, or at least an older one, while USM was written for ours.

Could you please define "your" generation? I'm 27 and the lack of costumed criminals in the Ultimate Universe is what made me realize it wasn't worth my time or money.

I find it interesting, too, that everybody says Marvel's current event-driven style of storytelling is popular, when I continue to hear people lamenting that the comic industry is hurting for new readers, and kids apparently aren't flocking to the comic shops even though the Marvel Universe has been deconstructed to hell and back with the Initiative and Civil War, and the trend away from good versus evil and colorful costumes to more "realistic" appearances and the heroes being at each others' throats.

If such things are meant to attract new fans, they don't seem to be doing a very good job of it.

[Alexrules]

I don't know what the modern concept of a hero is supposed to be, maybe I'm out of touch, however I can't think of a hero as a guy who just does whatever and tries to weasel his way out of it, instead of facing up to it. I can't think of this guy from Civil War as a hero, because he's not. Until you address that, all the suped up villians in the world doesn't matter.

[jackolover]

I'll add Amazing Spider-Man #601-603 as three issues which will probably gain above-average attention (variant covers, Mary Jane's return.)

I'm unclear from the initial post about whether the thread's supposed to be stuff that we'd like to see as individuals, or what Marvel could do to ensure interest in the titles.

I went with the latter approach, because I have no idea whether my personal tastes make financial sense. Unless a lot of people want to see Dan Slott & Marcos Martin on a Lizard story (whether they want to do it or not.)

Yeah, it's something of both, Mets.

The Spider franchise has had a history of rejuvination spikes in the past, and the JMS spike was only the last. This is what I'm looking for, and I am just fishing for a suitable candidate or candidates that could achieve something similar. New direction, New power to the Spider-Man. Similar example would be Todd McFarlane.

[jackolover]

Not being a big comic book guy, just as a guy on the outside, this strikes me as just a little wrong. The original should get more love. Ultimate Spider-Man should be good, but I feel more care should be lavished on the original groundbreaking hero that the first Spider-Man is. Kind of a shame they don't have a guy on it giving it the same kind of dedicated care.

I might be wrong in my assumption, but that is the feeling I'm getting.

Trying to elaborate on the 'Love' aspect, I want the Spider-Man of today to be driven with high emotion. The Peter Parker I remember was forever stuck on a girl, and the emotional baggage absolutely controlled his moods. His attachment to his Aunt May bordered on obsession, and this made him into a neurotic. You used to pick up a book, and Peter hadn't slept for 3 weeks because some maniac was trying to bury him, and he has to come home to his poor wife/Aunt, and his girlfriend is worried to hell that Peter is in love with another woman. Not that this is what want all over again. Just the Peter Parker who tangles his webs so much, he finds it hard to cope. This is the Peter Parker that barked at MJ to leave, when Gwen died. Are we going to get this Parker any time soon? I haven't seen it. Spider-Girl has more emotion than Peter Parker has these days.

[jackolover]

I don't know what the modern concept of a hero is supposed to be, maybe I'm out of touch, however I can't think of a hero as a guy who just does whatever and tries to weasel his way out of it, instead of facing up to it. I can't think of this guy from Civil War as a hero, because he's not. Until you address that, all the suped up villians in the world doesn't matter.

Eh, Parker had some issues in CW, but he eventually came around. But what happened to his world in the CW was what changed him. It was a nice essay on the character when put into a bad situation, but it might have worked better as a What If? Marvel wanted to walk that path with all it's heroes and showed the heroes for what they really are. That was a very courageous thing to do, by the company: Putting their merchandise up in the window like that, and watching what the fans do.

[Alexrules]

It sounds like they just put out one idea after another and is sort of reminiscent of the Clone Saga where they had one story after another begginning in different issues and specials, except now it's just the one book three times a month and it's one after another and there's no room to breath and nothing seems to happen except Mary Jane comes back even though they wanted her gone to begin with, why bring her back and remind people of that horrible issue?

It's like a run on sentence. They should get rid of that, too. Why have seven writers for one book? Again, though after you fake out an unmasking, there's not much to work with.:frown:

[Mister Mets]

A 30 post discussion about Ultimate Spider-Man (and getting kids to read comics) was moved to a new thread. (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=269730)

[RDMacQ]

It sounds like they just put out one idea after another and is sort of reminiscent of the Clone Saga where they had one story after another begginning in different issues and specials, except now it's just the one book three times a month and it's one after another and there's no room to breath and nothing seems to happen except Mary Jane comes back even though they wanted her gone to begin with, why bring her back and remind people of that horrible issue?

It's like a run on sentence. They should get rid of that, too. Why have seven writers for one book? Again, though after you fake out an unmasking, there's not much to work with

I don't think Marvel wanted MJ gone for good. There were just certain factors at Marvel that did not want her married to Peter, but they probably have no problem with having her be together with Peter in a long term relationship. And as much as I dislike OMD, even I admit that it would be pretty silly to have Pete and MJ be back in a relationship just one month after their marriage was sacrifice. One would think Marvel would want to give MJ some time off until they brought her back into the books in order to build up an "appetite" for her character again.

[lou-bert vs. q-bert]

Worship the man's Thunderbolts run (that moment where Norman is sitting on the can with the Goblin mask on is perfect on so many levels) but he's definitely not anywhere near a contender for Amazing for me, I'd be all for him taking a whack at a miniseries or the like though.Ellis did write a Spider-Man-universe comic, Carnage: Mind Bomb, a one-shot that was absolute perfection.

[Jim Thompson]

I don't know what the modern concept of a hero is supposed to be, maybe I'm out of touch, however I can't think of a hero as a guy who just does whatever and tries to weasel his way out of it, instead of facing up to it. I can't think of this guy from Civil War as a hero, because he's not. Until you address that, all the suped up villians in the world doesn't matter.I think there are a lot of people who feel this way.

[jackolover]

Ellis did write a Spider-Man-universe comic, Carnage: Mind Bomb, a one-shot that was absolute perfection.

Thanks Lou

"Mindbomb is a generally maligned comic among Spidey fans, simply because of what it is: a grotesque, gothic, and graphically violent trip inside the mind of a serial killer. No spandex to be found on any page. Technically, the comic is more proficient than a large number of the comics Marvel was putting out at the time, especially if they involved Spider-man. Warren Ellis writes the character incredibly well and it's a shame he hasn't been asked or put in a pitch to write Carnage into the more recent continuity. His 'redemption is impossible' take on the character is great, and I wish more people would take the time to realise this when it comes to writing villains – particularly some Batman ones. He also manages to give the supporting cast (who only appear very briefly too) great characterisations, particularly John Jameson, who fans will recognise as the son of J. Jonah Jameson and the alter ego of Man-Wolf."

I have never seen this comic.

[RDMacQ]

Ellis did write a Spider-Man-universe comic, Carnage: Mind Bomb, a one-shot that was absolute perfection.

Thing of it is, Ellis has stated that he has no desire to writer Spider-Man, whatsoever. He feels that the character is too juvenile.

[jackolover]

Thing of it is, Ellis has stated that he has no desire to writer Spider-Man, whatsoever. He feels that the character is too juvenile.

Yes, that is a problem of the editorial department at Marvel. They tend to keep Peter Parker this semi-teenaged light relief. I would like a more mature and real aspect to the book that Ellis could give if he was given the editorial mandate to do so

[AugustEngine]

If recent sales are anything to go by, the best way to rejuvinate Spidey would be to put Barack Obama on every cover for the duration of his presidency. Each issue would feature Spidey fighting super-villains funded by the Republican party. He would drive to the crime scene in his new hybrid car dubbed "Hopechange". Ann Coulter would take over the Daily Bugle and try to rally the public against Spider-Man. Guest Starring Al Gore as the funloving sidekick.

[Jim Thompson]

If recent sales are anything to go by, the best way to rejuvinate Spidey would be to put Barack Obama on every cover for the duration of his presidency. Each issue would feature Spidey fighting super-villains funded by the Republican party. He would drive to the crime scene in his new hybrid car dubbed "Hopechange". Ann Coulter would take over the Daily Bugle and try to rally the public against Spider-Man. Guest Starring Al Gore as the funloving sidekick.I was with you right up until that last sentence, as I don't think there is any writer out there who will be able to turn Al Gore into a "fun-loving" character. Shoot, the man makes a Marine Color Guard standing at attention look loose and relaxed in comparison.

[Mister Mets]

While I would be very happy to see Mark Millar, Matt Fraction or especially Ed Brubaker on the title, I don't think a change in the creative teams is necessary to rejuvenate the title.

The more recent additions to the book (Waid and Kelly) have both done an above average job. I'll be better able to assess Van Lente in a few months, when his three issues of ASM and Mister Negative mini-series hit.

And Roger Stern should have been part of the web heads/ brain trust from the beginning.

[Jim Thompson]

While I would be very happy to see Mark Millar, Matt Fraction or especially Ed Brubaker on the title, I don't think a change in the creative teams is necessary to rejuvenate the title.Mark Millar being handed the title would get me to drop the title.


The more recent additions to the book (Waid and Kelly) have both done an above average job. I'll be better able to assess Van Lente in a few months, when his three issues of ASM and Mister Negative mini-series shit.I somehow think you've mis-typed at the end of this thought. :biggrin: I have liked what Waid, Kelly and Van Lente have done so far -- but I can't quite get myself to say they have done an "above-average" job with the book yet. I think their current work tends to shine a bit more than it might otherwise at the moment -- that they are benefitting from the comparison against what I see as being weaker stories.


And Roger Stern should have been part of the web heads/ brain trust from the beginning.Here we are in complete agreement.

[Endless Flight]

Waid's stuff has been alright.

[Jim Thompson]

Waid's stuff has been alright.I've enjoyed it -- and I think it is the best of what's come out since the new editorial direction started -- but I also think the work might be benefiting some from the comparison against the other Spider-Man stories coming out at the moment.

[Mister Mets]

Mark Millar being handed the title would get me to drop the title. I respectfully disagree.


I somehow think you've mis-typed at the end of this thought. :biggrin: I have liked what Waid, Kelly and Van Lente have done so far -- but I can't quite get myself to say they have done an "above-average" job with the book yet. I think their current work tends to shine a bit more than it might otherwise at the moment -- that they are benefitting from the comparison against what I see as being weaker stories.I think they'd do fine compared against JMS's run (which was often excellent, but very uneven) and the .

If you had to choose 250 issues of Amazing Spider-Man to designate as Above-Average, I think Waid's "Unscheduled Stop," Fred Van Lente's Spot one-spot and Joe Kelly's Hammerhead story would make the list.

[Jim Thompson]

I respectfully disagree. You can disagree all you want -- but until you actually start living my life, the decision will remain mine -- so I'll reiterate: Mark Millar being the writer on ASM would get me to drop ASM. :tongue:


If you had to choose 250 issues of Amazing Spider-Man to designate as Above-Average, I think Waid's "Unscheduled Stop," Fred Van Lente's Spot one-spot and Joe Kelly's Hammerhead story would make the list.Isn't that the "I graduated 245th in a class of 600" argument? :biggrin:

[RDMacQ]

I think they'd do fine compared against JMS's run (which was often excellent, but very uneven) and the .

If you had to choose 250 issues of Amazing Spider-Man to designate as Above-Average, I think Waid's "Unscheduled Stop," Fred Van Lente's Spot one-spot and Joe Kelly's Hammerhead story would make the list.

I don't think the stories coming from the current run are necessarily better than JMS run, but are- like you said- comparable to what went before. Its just that the current direction is just tonally the exact opposite of what JMS did, since he skewed more intense drama peppered with humor here and there and was very serious, whereas the current run is all about being light and funny and less dramatic than it was previously, at least when it comes to Peter Parker.

[ShaggyB]

I don't think the stories coming from the current run are necessarily better than JMS run, but are- like you said- comparable to what went before. Its just that the current direction is just tonally the exact opposite of what JMS did, since he skewed more intense drama peppered with humor here and there and was very serious, whereas the current run is all about being light and funny and less dramatic than it was previously, at least when it comes to Peter Parker.

so like mets said.... better.

[RDMacQ]

so like mets said.... better

No, tonally different. Better for some who did not like what JMS was doing, but not better for others who didn't have as much of a problem or genuinely liked what he did.

[ShaggyB]

Better for some who did not like what JMS was doing

There is no other group.......

if you cant tell im kidding around.

[Horizon09]

Reading through this thread, I am seeing words like "fine," "alright," and "adequate" to desribe the work done on the title. I don't want to read a book that is average, I want a book that is excellent. I have recently spent my time reading Whedon's "Astonishing X-Men," Morrison's "New X-Men", and Bendis and Brubaker's "Daredevil." Spidey is Marvel's flagship character. He deserves an excellent series, not an OK one.

[Mister Mets]

Isn't that the "I graduated 245th in a class of 600" argument? :biggrin: Still above average.

It also depends on the class. I admit I'll be impressed with 245th out of 600 if we're talking about an Ivy League school or Annapolis. :tongue:

[CyberHubbs]

Reading through this thread, I am seeing words like "fine," "alright," and "adequate" to desribe the work done on the title. I don't want to read a book that is average, I want a book that is excellent. I have recently spent my time reading Whedon's "Astonishing X-Men," Morrison's "New X-Men", and Bendis and Brubaker's "Daredevil." Spidey is Marvel's flagship character. He deserves an excellent series, not an OK one.

That all depends on the reader, doesn't it? Some would say JMS' run was excellent, while I would disagree.

Read it for yourself and decide.

[RDMacQ]

That all depends on the reader, doesn't it? Some would say JMS' run was excellent, while I would disagree.

Read it for yourself and decide.

While I liked JMS run, I wouldn't go as far as to say it was flawless or near-perfect. It had it bumps, but I liked the mature tone he struck and how he wrote Spider-Man, especially in the serious, life or death situations. I am envious that Spider-Man hasn't had that "you-gotta-read-it-why-aren't-you?" vibe that Morrison's New X-Men run, or Bendis' run on USM or Avengers have. Sadly, I think that the current philosophical mindset is going to prevent that sort of run from happening, since the goal is to put Spider-Man in a status quo that WON'T change, and WON'T be radical or different, and not a run that is really wild and experimental and does things that no one has really seen before.

[ShaggyB]

Reading through this thread, I am seeing words like "fine," "alright," and "adequate" to desribe the work done on the title. I don't want to read a book that is average, I want a book that is excellent. I have recently spent my time reading Whedon's "Astonishing X-Men," Morrison's "New X-Men", and Bendis and Brubaker's "Daredevil." Spidey is Marvel's flagship character. He deserves an excellent series, not an OK one.

just a thought.... why dont you pick up a copy and make up your own mind. i could tell you its great.... but my taste and yours may not line up on what great is.... just like me not wanting to recommend morrisons xmen to anyone would not make it fall from your list of whats great.

[CyberHubbs]

While I liked JMS run, I wouldn't go as far as to say it was flawless or near-perfect. It had it bumps, but I liked the mature tone he struck and how he wrote Spider-Man, especially in the serious, life or death situations. I am envious that Spider-Man hasn't had that "you-gotta-read-it-why-aren't-you?" vibe that Morrison's New X-Men run, or Bendis' run on USM or Avengers have. Sadly, I think that the current philosophical mindset is going to prevent that sort of run from happening, since the goal is to put Spider-Man in a status quo that WON'T change, and WON'T be radical or different, and not a run that is really wild and experimental and does things that no one has really seen before.

It hasn't had that vibe for you, but I've liked ASM more than all three of those titles combined. Not every titles has to be radical or different. And to be fair, most titles, both DC and Marvel, won't 'change' beyond for a few years, until the story runs its course and things need to be changed yet again.

[Horizon09]

I have read JMS's run, and it is one of my favorites for any character. I have read 75% of BND stories, and I just can't get into them. That's why I want the franchise to be rejuvinated. But if any of you like these stories, good for you! :smile: I'm kind of jealous...you have current Spidey stories that you like. How is that a bad thing for you? I'm the one missing out:cool:

(P.S. I am not for or against the status shake up of OMD/BND. My opinions are on the stories themselves.)

[Scott Taylor]

Mark Millar could really make ASM sell, imho, but I'm giving Millar titles a wide berth after the full on character assassination that was Civil War.

[RDMacQ]

It hasn't had that vibe for you, but I've liked ASM more than all three of those titles combined. Not every titles has to be radical or different. And to be fair, most titles, both DC and Marvel, won't 'change' beyond for a few years, until the story runs its course and things need to be changed yet again.

I just wish that Spider-Man had that sort of "heat," for lack of a better term, that books like the Avengers have now, or Captain America, or Green Lantern. I think Spider-Man is long overdue to be the "IT" book for Marvel. Right now, things are far too muddied with the title with the fanbase at each other's throats right now for ASM to be "THE" book to read.

[jackolover]

Sadly, I think that the current philosophical mindset is going to prevent that sort of run from happening, since the goal is to put Spider-Man in a status quo that WON'T change, and WON'T be radical or different, and not a run that is really wild and experimental and does things that no one has really seen before.

Yes, that's my take on it too. The nostalgic single Peter Parker was nice back then, but writing has progressed and it would be nice to see something a little more edgy to the character. Granted, the CW, BiB and OMD storylines gave us emotional overload, so the current set of stories has given a breather, so we can settle down from overstimulation. It would be nice again to start the ride.

[Jim Thompson]

Mark Millar could really make ASM sell, imho, but I'm giving Millar titles a wide berth after the full on character assassination that was Civil War.I agree with both these thoughts.

[matthewaos]

Bring back Peter David and/or DeMatteis, along with a new guy who loves the character and let them loose. I think this could rejuvenate Spider-Man.

[Karl Cook]

Bring back Peter David and/or DeMatteis, along with a new guy who loves the character and let them loose. I think this could rejuvenate Spider-Man.

100% co-signed.

[Mister Mets]

Bring back Peter David and/or DeMatteis, along with a new guy who loves the character and let them loose. I think this could rejuvenate Spider-Man.If you're thinking of rejuvenation in terms of sales, I sincerely doubt it.

While there are debates about current ASM sales, it's difficult to argue about FNSM sales in the book's second year. Dematteis wrote two solid stories for Amazing Spider-Man Family, neither of which got any significant attention.

On the other hand, these guys could contribute well to the group. It's not just a matter of selecting your favorite writers, but choosing those who can do good work in a unique setting, while also elevating their associates.

[Jim Thompson]

Dematteis wrote two solid stories for Amazing Spider-Man Family, neither of which got any significant attention.That might have as much to do with the venue the story appeared in as much or more than the quality of the story and it's ability to attract new readers.

[Mister Mets]

Reading through this thread, I am seeing words like "fine," "alright," and "adequate" to desribe the work done on the title. I don't want to read a book that is average, I want a book that is excellent. I have recently spent my time reading Whedon's "Astonishing X-Men," Morrison's "New X-Men", and Bendis and Brubaker's "Daredevil." Spidey is Marvel's flagship character. He deserves an excellent series, not an OK one.In my case, I was using terms like "above average" in a semantics argument with Jim. I think the current run on ASM is good.

I do sympathize with the desire to see Amazing Spider-Man be the best title out there, and you could make the case that it's time to fire the writers because of their failure to consistently knock it out of the park, and deliver work that's on par with the best of the character and the best in comics, when they could "just" be replaced by Brubaker, Millar and Fraction.

I think this may be an unrealistic expectation. I still have the sense that the next great Spider-Man is just around the corner, and I don't want to screw with what's slowly improving. Plus, greatness often takes time, and practice.

Roger Stern's run on Amazing Spider-Man may just be the most perfect in the franchise's history, but he had two years of Spectacular under his belt before he came to ASM. JM Dematteis had his Marvel Team-Up run before Kraven's Last Hunt. I think the Lee/ Ditko stories got better, as their run progressed.

So I'll give the writers and Wacker some time to get used to the new schedule, and new dynamics, as that may just be the best way to ensure that Kraven's Last Hunt is topped.

[RDMacQ]

In my case, I was using terms like "above average" in a semantics argument with Jim. I think the current run on ASM is good.

I do sympathize with the desire to see Amazing Spider-Man be the best title out there, and you could make the case that it's time to fire the writers because of their failure to consistently knock it out of the park, and deliver work that's on par with the best of the character and the best in comics, when they could "just" be replaced by Brubaker, Millar and Fraction.

While I have not been the biggest fan of their works, I do believe the current creators deserve the opportunity to at least finish up the stories they have laid out and have planned. I dislike it when a story is dropped mid-stride, or wrapped up far too quickly just to make room for the incoming creative teams.


I think this may be an unrealistic expectation. I still have the sense that the next great Spider-Man is just around the corner, and I don't want to screw with what's slowly improving. Plus, greatness often takes time, and practice.

But how long should we wait for the "next" great Spider-Man. Just around the corner is a vague definition of time, and it also might never come. How many chances should someone be given to get something right before someone says "enough is enough!"?


Roger Stern's run on Amazing Spider-Man may just be the most perfect in the franchise's history, but he had two years of Spectacular under his belt before he came to ASM. JM Dematteis had his Marvel Team-Up run before Kraven's Last Hunt. I think the Lee/ Ditko stories got better, as their run progressed.

So I'll give the writers and Wacker some time to get used to the new schedule, and new dynamics, as that may just be the best way to ensure that Kraven's Last Hunt is topped

While Mr. Stern did have two years on Spectacular before coming on board ASM, you could say that it didn't matter how long he took on the satellite title if he didn't have a good bead on the character already. And the fact of the matter is that the comics market is not the same as it was back when Mr. Stern was on the title- customers shouldn't have to expect to wait two or three years to get a really great Spider-Man story, when the fans of the other franchises get great stories right out of the box.

[Crowforge]

Another spiderman shows up. He's a hero but he's also going after peter. He is spiderman's soul escaped from mephisto's hell and he's going to save the world from mephisto's plot, even if it destroys him again.

[David Walton]

DeMatteis would be interesting to see in the current format because he's said in numerous interviews that while he appreciate the energy the group sessions generated, he never liked the crossover format where one writer would hand off to the next in the same arc.

The new ASM format might be ideal for him.

[whiteshark]

DeMatteis would be interesting to see in the current format because he's said in numerous interviews that while he appreciate the energy the group sessions generated, he never liked the crossover format where one writer would hand off to the next in the same arc.

The new ASM format might be ideal for him.

Agreed,DeMatteis would be another writter that could help to create better stories in the Amazing Spider-Man book now.

Only great stories were written by this writter in the Spider-Man books as far as i can remember.

[David Walton]

Agreed,DeMatteis would be another writter that could help to create better stories in the Amazing Spider-Man book now.

Only great stories were written by this writter in the Spider-Man books as far as i can remember.

DeMatteis has some Spider-man work that isn't considered his best (like his "I Am Spider" arc and his second SSM run). Both of which I consider underrated, incidentally, but not on the same level as his SSM run with Buscema, KLH, SSM 200 and "The Parker Legacy."

I've argued before he just might be the best Spider-Man writer in the history of the franchise. Not only has he written arguably the top Spider-man stories (Kraven's Last Hunt and SSM 200), you could also make the case he's one of the most consistent. That's all subjective, of course, but I don't know of many who don't appreciate his Spider-man work immensely.

[Jim Thompson]

DeMatteis has some Spider-man work that isn't considered his best (like his "I Am Spider" arc and his second SSM run). Both of which I consider underrated, incidentally, but not on the same level as his SSM run with Buscema, KLH, SSM 200 and "The Parker Legacy."

I've argued before he just might be the best Spider-Man writer in the history of the franchise. Not only has he written arguably the top Spider-man stories (Kraven's Last Hunt and SSM 200), you could also make the case he's one of the most consistent. That's all subjective, of course, but I don't know of many who don't appreciate his Spider-man work immensely.The knock on DeMatteis seems to be he doesn't employ Spider-Man's humor like other writers do. I don't know as I think that's necessarily true, but even if it was, I think the dramatic elements of his stories would more than make up for the lack of steady humor.

DeMatteis has always been able to tell Spider-Man stories that both entertain me and connect me to the characters in ways very few other writers can. I care what happens during his stories, which is something I can't yet say about what's happening in ASM since the start of the new editorial direction.

I think he'd be a welcome addition to the book at this point.

[RDMacQ]

The knock on DeMatteis seems to be he doesn't employ Spider-Man's humor like other writers do. I don't know as I think that's necessarily true, but even if it was, I think the dramatic elements of his stories would more than make up for the lack of steady humor.

DeMatteis has always been able to tell Spider-Man stories that both entertain me and connect me to the characters in ways very few other writers can. I care what happens during his stories, which is something I can't yet say about what's happening in ASM since the start of the new editorial direction.

I think he'd be a welcome addition to the book at this point.

I think the necessity of Spider-Man's humor is far too over-emphasized. I get that he is supposed to have a sense of humor, but I've always seen it as a defense mechanism, a sort of gallows humor to keep himself from cracking up or to deal with the intense situation that is confronting him. Either that, or as a sort of running commentary on the situation, more like Bugs Bunny or Jerry Seinfeld. However, for some, it seems like Peter absolutely has to be cracking jokes all of the time, and acting like some form of clown or comedian or else its not Spider-Man. I feel that Spider-Man is a character that wears his heart on his sleeve, and is emotionally honest when confronted with a given situation. This could mean cracking a joke about the absurdity of the situation before him, or becoming outraged at the senseless destruction and the endangering of innocents. His reactions aren't necessarily meant to be funny, they're meant to be HUMAN. Hence, his everyman appeal because his emotional reactions to the situation would normally mirror our own in the given situation.

[matthewaos]

However, for some, it seems like Peter absolutely has to be cracking jokes all of the time, and acting like some form of clown or comedian or else its not Spider-Man.

That's why I can't read Bendis' Spider-Man!!

I think DeMatteis wrote Spider-Man with a clever humor, but not as a clown at all, that's what I liked about him, and at the same times the stories had depth. Depth and fun, that's what I love about him.

As for David, his FNSM run maybe was not good in sales, but let's face it, did they let them write anything? I mean the whole run was foul on crossovers. I think he is a very good writer, but you have to let him do his thing. And he has writen Spider-Man before and it was great imo.

[Matt Linton]

I think the necessity of Spider-Man's humor is far too over-emphasized. I get that he is supposed to have a sense of humor, but I've always seen it as a defense mechanism, a sort of gallows humor to keep himself from cracking up or to deal with the intense situation that is confronting him. Either that, or as a sort of running commentary on the situation, more like Bugs Bunny or Jerry Seinfeld. However, for some, it seems like Peter absolutely has to be cracking jokes all of the time, and acting like some form of clown or comedian or else its not Spider-Man. I feel that Spider-Man is a character that wears his heart on his sleeve, and is emotionally honest when confronted with a given situation. This could mean cracking a joke about the absurdity of the situation before him, or becoming outraged at the senseless destruction and the endangering of innocents. His reactions aren't necessarily meant to be funny, they're meant to be HUMAN. Hence, his everyman appeal because his emotional reactions to the situation would normally mirror our own in the given situation.

Spider-Man's humor is also one of his offensive weapons. He goads his opponent until they're fighting angry, not fighting smart.

[David Walton]

The knock on DeMatteis seems to be he doesn't employ Spider-Man's humor like other writers do. I don't know as I think that's necessarily true, but even if it was, I think the dramatic elements of his stories would more than make up for the lack of steady humor.

That's probably what keeps DeMatteis from making many lists as the greatest Spider-Man writer of all time, although his work is abundant in top 10 lists. If we ranked writers on a points system I think DeMatteis might rank highest by virtue of KLH, SSM 189 and 200, and ASM 400. While only KLH would likely be a contender in the popular mind for the best Spider-Man story of all time, he's had enough works in the top tier of the franchise to win out by the volume of his quality work. And I think there are enough people like me who would rank his work the highest alongside those who would put it just below Stern and Lee to give him the edge.


DeMatteis has always been able to tell Spider-Man stories that both entertain me and connect me to the characters in ways very few other writers can.

I feel more connected to DeMatteis' Spider-Man cast than any other.


I think he'd be a welcome addition to the book at this point.

No doubt.

[whiteshark]

DeMatteis has some Spider-man work that isn't considered his best (like his "I Am Spider" arc and his second SSM run). Both of which I consider underrated, incidentally, but not on the same level as his SSM run with Buscema, KLH, SSM 200 and "The Parker Legacy."

I've argued before he just might be the best Spider-Man writer in the history of the franchise. Not only has he written arguably the top Spider-man stories (Kraven's Last Hunt and SSM 200), you could also make the case he's one of the most consistent. That's all subjective, of course, but I don't know of many who don't appreciate his Spider-man work immensely.


I would not say that DeMatteis is the best writer in the Spidey franchise.
Stan "The Man" Lee and Gerry Conway are ahead IMO.
But is one of the best writters,which wrote a master piece in the Spider-Man books which is KLH.
And wrote some very decent and solid stories as SSM#200 or his second run in SSM.

Speaking of other writters that wrote great stories in the past,there is already Roger Stern in the Spider-Man writters team now,this writter would rejuvinate the Spider-Franchise,and just add more quality to the stories in ASM if more stories by this writter have been published.
A continuation of the Juggernaut story is being written i think (Yay) ,and more stories written by the great writer which is Roger Stern would definitely improve the stories in ASM.

[Mister Mets]

That might have as much to do with the venue the story appeared in as much or more than the quality of the story and it's ability to attract new readers. It's not unprecedented for a great story in an unimpressive venue to get attention: for example, an annual from a soon to be canceled satellite title in 2007.

[Mister Mets]

While I have not been the biggest fan of their works, I do believe the current creators deserve the opportunity to at least finish up the stories they have laid out and have planned. I dislike it when a story is dropped mid-stride, or wrapped up far too quickly just to make room for the incoming creative teams.

But how long should we wait for the "next" great Spider-Man. Just around the corner is a vague definition of time, and it also might never come. How many chances should someone be given to get something right before someone says "enough is enough!"? Depends on the quality of the work, something entirely subjective. Right now, Amazing Spider-Man seems to have solid reception, so it's unknown if giving the Web Heads six months to wrap up the book, so Brubaker, Fraction, Carey and Millar could take over would yield better results.

When's the last time someone got fired from the Spider-Man books? Usually, creative team changes occur when writers and artists opt out, even on books far more obviously problematic than Amazing Spider-Man.


While Mr. Stern did have two years on Spectacular before coming on board ASM, you could say that it didn't matter how long he took on the satellite title if he didn't have a good bead on the character already. And the fact of the matter is that the comics market is not the same as it was back when Mr. Stern was on the title- customers shouldn't have to expect to wait two or three years to get a really great Spider-Man story, when the fans of the other franchises get great stories right out of the box.Sometimes fans of other franchises get great stories right out of the box, but that's a pleasant surprise, as opposed to something it's reasonable to demand.

I am curious as to which franchises you're referring to.

[David Walton]

It's not unprecedented for a great story in an unimpressive venue to get attention: for example, an annual from a soon to be canceled satellite title in 2007.

Yeah, but that was largely tied to the OMD controversy. The annual became a rallying point for marriage fans.

[Mister Mets]

DeMatteis has some Spider-man work that isn't considered his best (like his "I Am Spider" arc and his second SSM run). Both of which I consider underrated, incidentally, but not on the same level as his SSM run with Buscema, KLH, SSM 200 and "The Parker Legacy."

I've argued before he just might be the best Spider-Man writer in the history of the franchise. Not only has he written arguably the top Spider-man stories (Kraven's Last Hunt and SSM 200), you could also make the case he's one of the most consistent. That's all subjective, of course, but I don't know of many who don't appreciate his Spider-man work immensely.He did some great work, but I'm not sure consistent is the right word, considering the "Peter Parker No More" period and his second Spectacular Spider-Man (decent, but not exceptional.)


That's probably what keeps DeMatteis from making many lists as the greatest Spider-Man writer of all time, although his work is abundant in top 10 lists. If we ranked writers on a points system I think DeMatteis might rank highest by virtue of KLH, SSM 189 and 200, and ASM 400. While only KLH would likely be a contender in the popular mind for the best Spider-Man story of all time, he's had enough works in the top tier of the franchise to win out by the volume of his quality work. And I think there are enough people like me who would rank his work the highest alongside those who would put it just below Stern and Lee to give him the edge.
I agree that Dematteis is third to Lee and Stern, but that's due to the quality of the other two writers than anything JMD did wrong.

On a points system, Lee had Amazing Fantasy #15, the Master Planner trilogy, "Spider-Man and the Green Goblin, both unmasked!" "Spider-Man No More," "Disaster," and other classics.

Stern had "The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man," "Nothing Can Stop the Juggernaut," the Hobgoblin Saga, and other classics.

[Hypestyle]

bring back Reggie Hudlin.. dwayne mcduffie.. christopher priest..

[RDMacQ]

Spider-Man's humor is also one of his offensive weapons. He goads his opponent until they're fighting angry, not fighting smart.

I'd agree with you here, but we already agreed on something once this week so I'm not sure if we are allowed to agree on another.

Either way, yes, Spidey's humor is something that rattles his opponents, but I like how Kurt Busiek explained it in Untold Tales of Spider-Man- Peter is so freaked out by what is going on, he's joking to himself to keep himself from completely losing it. The side effect of that is, is that it creates the impression in his opponents that Spidey is carefree and not taking things seriously, allowing him the psychological leverage to take them out.

[Jim Thompson]

I'd agree with you here, but we already agreed on something once this week so I'm not sure if we are allowed to agree on another.

Either way, yes, Spidey's humor is something that rattles his opponents, but I like how Kurt Busiek explained it in Untold Tales of Spider-Man- Peter is so freaked out by what is going on, he's joking to himself to keep himself from completely losing it. The side effect of that is, is that it creates the impression in his opponents that Spidey is carefree and not taking things seriously, allowing him the psychological leverage to take them out.No one has ever really put it in terms like this, as far as I know, but Spider-Man is rather like Muhammad Ali in that, using humor to distract, enrage and otherwise upset opponents.

[whiteshark]

I'd agree with you here, but we already agreed on something once this week so I'm not sure if we are allowed to agree on another.

Either way, yes, Spidey's humor is something that rattles his opponents, but I like how Kurt Busiek explained it in Untold Tales of Spider-Man- Peter is so freaked out by what is going on, he's joking to himself to keep himself from completely losing it. The side effect of that is, is that it creates the impression in his opponents that Spidey is carefree and not taking things seriously, allowing him the psychological leverage to take them out.

It was explained in many stories,that Spider-Man uses his humor to enrage and distract the villains he is fighting.
Spider-Man doesnt use his humor to keep himself from losing it.

And since Peter Parker is a character with a sense of humor,makes sense when Peter puts the mask,his humor got amplified.

[RDMacQ]

It was explained in many stories,that Spider-Man uses his humor to enrage and distract the villains he is fighting.
Spider-Man doesnt use his humor to keep himself from losing it.

And since Peter Parker is a character with a sense of humor,makes sense when Peter puts the mask,his humor got amplified.

Except for Kurt Busiek's Untold Tales of Spider-Man where it was stated by Peter himself that he is joking around to keep himself from losing it.

[jackolover]

It's not unprecedented for a great story in an unimpressive venue to get attention: for example, an annual from a soon to be canceled satellite title in 2007.

Speaking of annual, I remember an annual where Harry Osborns ghost came back and saved his sone. Is this still in continuity, and how could that be, because Harry was always alive? How is Marvel going to explain this now?

[Jim Thompson]

Speaking of annual, I remember an annual where Harry Osborn's ghost came back and saved his son. Is this still in continuity, and how could that be, because Harry was always alive? How is Marvel going to explain this now?They probably don't even remember that story.

[jackolover]

Except for Kurt Busiek's Untold Tales of Spider-Man where it was stated by Peter himself that he is joking around to keep himself from losing it.

I have difficulty with this, because I think Peter Parker is the most humorless person when he is a civilian. Put on the mask, and Peter takes on another persona altogether. Maybe it's as simple as Peter having a dual personality, that lets out his other, lighter side. His Web-Head, the happy go lucky swinger.

[jackolover]

They probably don't even remember that story.

Yeah, prob'ly

[Mister Mets]

Speaking of annual, I remember an annual where Harry Osborns ghost came back and saved his sone. Is this still in continuity, and how could that be, because Harry was always alive? How is Marvel going to explain this now?Which issue was this?

I think Marvel's solution is to avoid it.

Although you could later reveal that Harry happened to suffer a near fatal drug overdose at the same exact time.

[lou-bert vs. q-bert]

Although you could later reveal that Harry happened to suffer a near fatal drug overdose at the same exact time.An out-of-body experience if you will, and in such a fictional universe, not terribly far-fetched.

[Alan2099]

I have difficulty with this, because I think Peter Parker is the most humorless person when he is a civilian. Put on the mask, and Peter takes on another persona altogether. Maybe it's as simple as Peter having a dual personality, that lets out his other, lighter side. His Web-Head, the happy go lucky swinger.
Maybe it's simplier than him being screwed up in the head. You know, like he's kinda timid and reserved as Peter but when he wears a mask, he's got anonymity so he can cut lose. Kinda like how people get on message boards and say things that they'd never actually say or do in real life.

[TomServo]

Maybe it's simplier than him being screwed up in the head. You know, like he's kinda timid and reserved as Peter but when he wears a mask, he's got anonymity so he can cut lose. Kinda like how people get on message boards and say things that they'd never actually say or do in real life.

Totally agreed. In many ways, Spider-Man is Peter Parker's chance to be the cocky, in your face trash talker that he could never be as himself. As Oscar Wilde said:

"Man is least himself when he speaks in his own person. Give a man a mask, and he will tell you the truth."