Widening Gyre: 12 part kevin Smith BATMAN story! [Archive]

Cayman

05-13-2009, 08:07 AM

I can smell a top ten seller for the next 12 months!

Awesome.

Loved his Daredevil, Green Arrow, and most recent Batman work.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/050913-Smith.html

His previous Batman mini never cracked the top 30. I'm not sure a top ten placement is a given for this title, especially if its purpose is to launch a new character's ongoing title.

Violently Apathetic

05-13-2009, 08:33 AM

Eh...the only thing Smith's ever done that I liked was 'Quiver.' His work for Marvel has been mediocre to poor and the bulk of his DC output isn't much better. So yeah, not too enthused.

But still, Green Hornet...

BurningStarIV

05-13-2009, 09:28 AM

Was Cacophony worth a damn?

Gitaroo_Dude

05-13-2009, 09:31 AM

Gonna pass on this, didn't like Cacophony, and Flanagan is way too much of an amateur.

And no way this breaks the top 10, I don't think Cacophony even broke top 20.

AJM

05-13-2009, 09:37 AM

Hmmm... wasn't too impressed with Flanagan and the Cacophony ending was pretty poor... i'll give it a chance, though.

WorstThingUS

05-13-2009, 09:49 AM

I can smell a top ten seller for the next 12 months!

Based on what exactly? The last one wasn't a top seller.

discodicky

05-13-2009, 10:02 AM

So he butchers Green Arrow, writes the pile of [insert expletive here] that was Cacophony and gets rewarded with a 12-part mini. Oh.

carabas

05-13-2009, 11:27 AM

So he butchers Green Arrow...How did he do that? Considering Green Arrow was pushing up daisies before Smith came along.

discodicky

05-13-2009, 11:45 AM

How did he do that? Considering Green Arrow was pushing up daisies before Smith came along.

Ollie was better as a memory than how Smith portrayed him. Although only one writer has really done GA justice... Mike Grell

Sn4tcH

05-13-2009, 12:12 PM

Methinks me hears a vocal minority.

His Daredevil and Green Arrow are basically classics. Hell, his Daredevil eventually helped change Marvel as a company.

I liked his Spider-man, and was meh on Batman.

I am a little under luke-warm as far as my excitement level is. If anyone listens to his SMod-cast, all he does lately is smoke pot, talk about hockey, and hate himself... still funny though.

carabas

05-13-2009, 12:14 PM

Ollie was better as a memory than how Smith portrayed him. Although only one writer has really done GA justice... Mike GrellSaying Grell did it better is not the same as indicating what, if anything, Smith did wrong.

And wanting to write superhero stories about a superhero is not exactly wrong either.

WorstThingUS

05-13-2009, 12:18 PM

Hell, his Daredevil eventually helped change Marvel as a company.

Okay, I just have to ask: how did Kevin Smith's Daredevil run change Marvel as a company?

Sean Walsh

05-13-2009, 12:21 PM

Glad to hear the scheduling is being set up ahead of time to accomodate him (and Flanagan too, I guess - didn't even know Cacophony was late).

If anyone listens to his SMod-cast, all he does lately is smoke pot, talk about hockey, and hate himself... still funny though.

So you're saying he still has other responsibilities while he's writing this series?

Dang. It IS gonna be late... :wink: :tongue:

4thHorseman

05-13-2009, 12:32 PM

Glad to hear the scheduling is being set up ahead of time to accomodate him (and Flanagan too, I guess - didn't even know Cacophony was late).

Yeah, First issue was out in Nov., 2nd in Dec., and IIRC, the third was out in Feb. or March.

Sn4tcH

05-13-2009, 12:41 PM

Okay, I just have to ask: how did Kevin Smith's Daredevil run change Marvel as a company?

I didn't mean his Daredevil run exclusively, but the Marvel Knights line that it was part of. I was just saying his Daredevil helped.

WorstThingUS

05-13-2009, 01:23 PM

I didn't mean his Daredevil run exclusively, but the Marvel Knights line that it was part of. I was just saying his Daredevil helped.

And how did that change Marvel? Seriously. I really don't anything about it other than it was some of Cap's most beautiful art and absolute worst writing.

RonnieThunderbolts

05-13-2009, 01:29 PM

And how did that change Marvel? Seriously. I really don't anything about it other than it was some of Cap's most beautiful art and absolute worst writing.

Joe Quesada's success with the Marvel Knights imprint got him the Editor in Chief position. I'm not sure that his time as EiC has changed Marvel any more than the mere passage of time and changing of the guard has in the past, repeatedly and inevitably.

Anyway, while I'm not interested in this at all, I imagine it would be cool to be in Smith's position, to be able to write Batman, and Daredevil, and Green Arrow, and now to create an original DCU hero, that has to be his dream come true. I wish him and Flanagan all the best with it, but I'm pretty doubtful I'll pick it up. I may glance at it when it is in stores and reevaluate, but nothing is really making me too interested in the book.

T Hedge Coke

05-13-2009, 01:34 PM

And how did that change Marvel? Seriously. I really don't anything about it other than it was some of Cap's most beautiful art and absolute worst writing.

Joe Q basically came to the EIC gig through his handling of Marvel Knights and the early stuff the imprint released really did have a breadth and reach beyond was Marvel-proper was doing at the time, including the Jenkins/Lee Inhumans and Grayson/Jones Black Widow (and at least three crazy takes on the Punisher, of which, the Ennis black comedy atmosphere caught on).

Smith's Daredevil seemed to be the most expected/safe of the early Marvel Knights' releases, actually. The edgiest bits were the religious and that was hardly touched on outside of a surface glance, and any interesting gender related material going on in Matt Murdock's little sphere and history were similarly given a cursory look, then shuffled off the board to focus back on the plot.

It was a decisive run on Daredevil, however, at a time when the approach to Mr. Murdock had been all over the place between writers, artists, and editorial.

BurningStarIV

05-13-2009, 01:41 PM

Joe Quesada's success with the Marvel Knights imprint got him the Editor in Chief position.
So it changed Marvel for the worse. Got it.

T Hedge Coke

05-13-2009, 01:43 PM

So it changed Marvel for the worse. Got it.

Do you remember what Marvel was like in the late stages of Harras?

Frisky Dingo

05-13-2009, 02:42 PM

Was Cacophony worth a damn?

From all the reviews I read, apparently it was pretty awful.

T Hedge Coke

05-13-2009, 03:03 PM

From all the reviews I read, apparently it was pretty awful.

It had some interesting material, but little of it seemed to have any reason to appear sequentially as some sort of narrative. And whatever interesting point was being made with the new villain was apparently not interesting enough to actually explore in the comic.

discodicky

05-13-2009, 03:16 PM

I personally think Kevin Smith would be better off doing something creator-owned on Wildstorm. I want to see what his take on a superhero is when he's not doing a big name character.

Was cacophony bad? Yes.
Was GA bad? For GA, yes. If it was his only creator-owned character in which I had not got a deep interest then it would've worked.

Captain Jim

05-13-2009, 08:58 PM

My personal opinion is that Smith is overrated. I don't plan to pick this up.

Robert318

05-13-2009, 09:07 PM

Just what Batman's corner of the universe needed: a new hero. Getting a little more crowded up in this joint. Hopefully the tie to Batman is just a launching point and not giving birth to a hero who will inhabit Gotham permanently. Still, I doubt I'll be picking this one up. I'm not so impressed with Kevin Smith's current recent output that I think this one is a must-buy.

nepenthes

05-13-2009, 10:04 PM

not interested in the slighest. I don't think I even made it through a single issue of Cacaphony. seriously who asked for this? the shelf space could go to something better intsead of contributing to a glut that oversaturates the batman line-up

i'm sure there's plently of other celebrity writers from film or even novels that would be interested in their very own BATMAN comic.

Dr. Simian

05-13-2009, 11:43 PM

Y'know, I like Smith's writing. Daredevil was excellent, and I did enjoy the first G.A. arc.
That being said, he should be BANNED from writing any comics (besides his own ViewAskewniverse stuff) these days, because his history of lateness is inexcusable. I don't understand how editorial can keep giving him work. He makes great movies, for the most part, and I hope he continues to make more. But to reward him with a 12 part story is just too much.
Unless editorial waited until they had ALL twelve scripts in hand. Then, okay.

Batman was taken

05-14-2009, 01:54 AM

I can't say I'm overly excited for this, but we'll see...

As for lateness, The Source (http://dcublog.dccomics.com/2009/05/13/more-kevin-smith-check-more-kevin-smith-batman-yup/) had a snippet of an interview from somewhere, and Smith said that the first 6 scripts are done, and one issue of art is done. Considering the books not due till August, it may actually be on time!

Or maybe not.

jgiannantoni05

05-14-2009, 02:19 PM

Cacophony was terrible. Smith shouldn't be allowed to write Batman.

DC only lets him write because of his name. Period.
________
I-Active Valve Lift System (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/I-Active_Valve_Lift_System)

Rattlehead

05-14-2009, 02:26 PM

Cacophony was late because of an amateur artist who is nothing more than a hanger-on in the Smith camp. Hell, he ducks out early of most of the Smodcasts he gets to be on, citing illness. He's a huge germophobe, and if he even smells the wrong thing he gets sick. It's not like Smith is as busy writing movies and playing celebrity as he was when he was derailing comics left and right. I like Smith's comic book work, but if Walt is going to draw it, I'm out. The kids still got a long way to go in the sequential art department.

Mia

05-14-2009, 03:09 PM

Just not 12 consecutive months.

Cute. :smile:

My personal opinion is that Smith is overrated. I don't plan to pick this up.

Ditto. Didn't care about his Daredevil stuff. Pedestrian and gimmicky. Sorry the best stuff in that was the art. I also haven't been impressed from what I've read from him in interviews about his sfuff being late. He gave me the impression that he doesn't care and doesn't take it seriously. He strikes me as being very lazy and lackadasical. I'll just pass on this.

Pixie_Solanas

05-14-2009, 03:26 PM

"Guardian Devil" was one of the most laughable comics i've ever read. Hamhanded conflict in re: Matt's Catholicism? Zzzzz.

Maestro

05-14-2009, 03:29 PM

lol, six month break. are you kidding. It will probably be a six YEAR break

Will.S

05-14-2009, 03:29 PM

Don't care.

Pixie_Solanas

05-14-2009, 04:04 PM

Don't care.

Like we're supposed to splash around in our own urine just over the news that Kevin Smith's signed on to do another Batman story? As if.

Will.S

05-14-2009, 04:12 PM

Like we're supposed to splash around in our own urine just over the news that Kevin Smith's signed on to do another Batman story? As if.
Heh yeah basically.

Especially coming after a badly regarded Batman story with amateurish art.

OverMaster

05-14-2009, 04:22 PM

Ah, finally something that can come out WITH EVEN MORE DELAYS than All Star Batman.

The New DC Comics, always finding ways to outdo themselves!

Falconen

05-14-2009, 04:31 PM

Yeah, Kevin Smith hasn't exactly had a great record with meeting deadlines. Of course, the whole industry lately has taken to the "whenever" attitude.

spidervenom

05-14-2009, 09:14 PM

I thought Cacophony was pretty bad, I wasn't fond of his portrayel of the joker and his relationship with bats. But, I might check it out.

Name Already Taken

05-14-2009, 09:35 PM

Was Cacophony worth a damn?

Like everything, it is always in the eye of the beholder. Cacophony is worth checking out if you may come by it cheap. It has a promising take on a bad guy Smith wrote and designed and puts him against Batman. The Joker only has a commentary role as the two others face off against eachother as a bystander for the most part. I liked Onomatopoeia in Green Arrow as a villain. And one would think he would be a good Bat character to square off with might be a good idea at first.

But for that series at least, Onomatopoeia seemed a little too much at first for Kevin's desire to introduce as a bad guy. Yes he is a good addition to any rogue's gallery for a big timer, but it seemed like Smith was trying to write him as a force of nature rather than a possible metahuman with real threats and wounds as a hitman while going against others.

Just my 2 cents on that series for now.

Alexrules

05-14-2009, 09:41 PM

I hope he puts those polar bears in from that Superman movie script he was hired to rewrite.:evilsmile:

Babylon23

05-14-2009, 10:23 PM

I haven't enjoyed any of the Kevin Smith comics I've read. His GA was mediocre, Cacophony was terrible and DD was at best ordinary. I think I'll give this one a miss.

Scarlet Pimpernel

05-15-2009, 02:22 AM

The best part of that story was learning that Green Hornet is coming back!

Ghost Shark

05-15-2009, 11:08 AM

Ugh. Cacophany was ka-ka. No way will I spend a cent on his 12 issue mini despite Batman's presence.

zebop

05-17-2009, 05:47 PM

My personal opinion is that Smith is overrated. I don't plan to pick this up.

Seconded.

Smith did a good job on Green Arrow. I liked his Guardian Devil arc on Daredevil. But I will never forgive nor forget how unprofessional and thoughtless he handled the whole Spider-Man/Black Cat mini-series.

...and did you ever buy the second issue of Daredevil: The Target? You want to get me hyped over a Kevin Smith comic book? Finish what ya started, ya bum.

Smith has got a long way to go before I ever consider putting my money down to support any project he's associated with. That includes both comic books and movies.

:mad:

Hamdinger

05-17-2009, 10:03 PM

Methinks me hears a vocal minority.

His Daredevil and Green Arrow are basically classics. Hell, his Daredevil eventually helped change Marvel as a company.

His DD run is all but forgotten since it was overshadowed and bitch-slapped into oblivion by Bendis and then Brubaker's runs. And Kevin Smith's interviews and lectures are way funnier than what he writes and films. He's not that good, all his movies are so very uneven and his comics are way worse. His DD run changed nothing.

janthonyh

08-25-2009, 09:31 AM

Leocomix

08-27-2009, 01:14 AM

OK I know this is an old thread, but with Widening Gyre set to come out tomorrow, is anyone looking forward to it? I have been reading Cacophony and I kinda like it. I would like to get this, but I have a rather large pull list for tomorrow (8 other titles) I might wait til next week to get this when I have only 2 to get.

Just read it. It's incredible, stunning. But DC is heading into trouble with the lack of warning on the cover (even with the demon on it). Don't sell it to the kids.
I can just imagine the PR disaster when a 10 year old kid will say, "Mama, can I get this? It's Batman" and she will check the content. Anyway, congratulations for editors Mike Marts and Dan Didio. We haven't had something as unsettling since Morrison's Arkham Asylum.

carabas

08-27-2009, 02:49 AM

How does it compare to Cacaphony, which I found to be terribly mediocre.

TheEvilGeniuz

08-27-2009, 06:55 AM

im 50/50 with this. a part of me is telling me "dont be stupid" and the other half is telling me "yo! its batman! duh!" ..... i guess we'll see. there's just so much other good stuff out there to keep my busy for awhile.

pariah-1972

08-27-2009, 08:21 AM

Unfortunately as much as i personally like Kevin Smith personally, creatively most of his projects he creates come across as a Middle aged juvenile delinquent and this book isn't much better.

Arguably there is some potential here somewhere Mostly Flanagan's artwork had a lot of nice detail even tho his Batman is not terribly imposing at all.

Mia

08-27-2009, 08:40 AM

Unfortunately as much as i personally like Kevin Smith personally, creatively most of his projects he creates come across as a Middle aged juvenile delinquent and this book isn't much better.

Funny you say that, because that's how he comes accross from reading his interviews. I find him to be incredibly adolescent and immature. And this guy is supposed to have a wife and kid.

derekw13029

08-27-2009, 08:42 AM

I liked Widening Gyre pt. 1 more than 'Tec this week.

pariah-1972

08-27-2009, 08:43 AM

Funny you say that, because that's how he comes accross from reading his interviews. I find him to be incredibly adolescent and immature. And this guy is supposed to have a wife and kid.Well guys can act like that and still somehow be a good father and husband i'm sure.

I like the first Clerks and his one night only college thing but that's about it.

Mia

08-27-2009, 09:25 AM

Well guys can act like that and still somehow be a good father and husband i'm sure.

I guess he can be. But I don’t know what woman would want to hook up with a guy who behaves like a 14 year old boy. But I guess I have different standards.

But overall I haven’t been impressed by his behaviour. I find him to be extreemely ignorant and un-proffessional.

Jim Thompson

08-27-2009, 09:31 AM

I guess he can be. But I don’t know what woman would want to hook up with a guy who behaves like a 14 year old boy. But I guess I have different standards.

But overall I haven’t been impressed by his behaviour. I find him to be extreemely ignorant and un-proffessional.I'll probably regret asking this, but could you be more specific? What's he doing that has led to your opinion of him?

Mia

08-27-2009, 09:47 AM

I'll probably regret asking this, but could you be more specific? What's he doing that has led to your opinion of him?

His behaviour and language in interviews and articles I read on him. His whole behaviour towards Bendis while he was on DareDevil. His whole flippant attitude about not keeping a monthly schedule. All of it left me with the impression that Kevin Smith is a very juvenile and extreemely immature man.

Jim Thompson

08-27-2009, 09:56 AM

His behavior and language in interviews and articles I read on him. His whole behavior towards Bendis while he was on DareDevil. His whole flippant attitude about not keeping a monthly schedule. All of it left me with the impression that Kevin Smith is a very juvenile and extremely immature man.Well, the lack of care in regards to deadlines might reveal him to be un-professional, at least in the comic book world, but as for the rest of what you're saying, his level of success alone seems to imply he's not as immature as you seem to be painting him out to be.

David Walton

08-27-2009, 09:59 AM

Well, the lack of care in regards to deadlines might reveal him to be un-professional, at least in the comic book world, but as for the rest of what you're saying, his level of success alone seems to imply he's not as immature as you seem to be painting him out to be.

Going with line of logic, though, we could say the same about Joe Quesada.

When Joe compares DC's superhero's properties to a porn star's genitalia, I'm going to make a judgment call that he's immature...and his success is either in spite of that or because of it.

However, immaturity isn't always the worst quality in a celebrity or psuedo-celebrity. It just follows the same rule as a politically incorrect joke. When it's funny or endearing and quirky it works.

With Joe Q, I'd say he's successful in spite of his immaturity.

With Kevin Smith, I'd say he was (at least at first) successful because of it. It was part of the Kevin Smith package...and it's hard to blame him for sticking with what works (ed?).

Jim Thompson

08-27-2009, 10:03 AM

Going with line of logic, though, we could say the same about Joe Quesada.

When Joe compares DC's superhero's properties to a porn star's genitalia, I'm going to make a judgment call that he's immature...and his success is either in spite of that or because of it.I'm going to call that short-sighted.

I tend not to equate language choice with maturity, though.

David Walton

08-27-2009, 10:07 AM

I'm going to call that short-sighted.

I tend not to equate language choice with maturity, though.

There's no one factor that can determine maturity or lack thereof.

With Joe Q it wasn't so much his choice of language as his choice of venue. If you're so incredibly desperate to make porn references that you need to throw superheroes into the mix...well, it doesn't say everything about the man but it certainly says something, doesn't it?

But if you'll read my edit, I'm not even saying that immaturity is always a bad thing. It would appear that we need to indulge our immaturity from time to time to be healthy and happy human beings. And I think that's the kind of humor that Smith tapped into with his films in the 90s. Immature, but a nice outlet for a generation coming of age.

Jim Thompson

08-27-2009, 10:11 AM

There's no one factor that can determine maturity or lack thereof.

With Joe Q it wasn't so much his choice of language as his choice of venue. If you're so incredibly desperate to make porn references that you need to throw superheroes into the mix...well, it doesn't say everything about the man but it certainly says something, doesn't it?

But if you'll read my edit, I'm not even saying that immaturity is always a bad thing. It would appear that we need to indulge our immaturity from time to time to be healthy and happy human beings. And I think that's the kind of humor that Smith tapped into with his films in the 90s. Immature, but a nice outlet for a generation coming of age.True -- however, having said that, I tend not not apply that kind of thinking to Kevin Smith. First off, he's not really in charge of anything except Kevin Smith, whereas Quesada really has to worry about representing a company and corporation.

Redchief

08-27-2009, 12:20 PM

IIRC, didnt DC require that all six issues of Volume 1 be completed before they would publish it? It sounds like DiDio knew what he was getting into here.

K-DoG7p7

08-27-2009, 01:00 PM

IIRC, didnt DC require that all six issues of Volume 1 be completed before they would publish it? It sounds like DiDio knew what he was getting into here.

yes..

actually this mini has announced with a pause in the middle..

nepenthes

08-27-2009, 04:54 PM

this is a weird issue for me. I definitly have to say it's alot better than I expected, alot better better than Cacaphony....and probably better than I would've liked it to be :cool: . yes it's fun, and easy, to hate on Kevin Smith

there's still alot about the issue that annoys me though i.e. crude jokes and juvenile humour that is not nearly as witty as it would like to be. I'm still not sure if I like Ivy's portrayal - sure, she's supposed to have a strong sexual element but I also found it pretty one-note. The visual of her in her in the S&M harness is great, even if the artist kinda botched it. The design for the new ally is pretty cool though.

Best parts were the dynamic between Bruce and Grayson.

It's gonna feel wrong, very wrong, but I might just have to buy the second issue and see where this goes

Andrew T

08-27-2009, 06:20 PM

So this is worth picking up then? Where is it set in continuity?

Smith's Daredevil arc was at the very least on par with the best of Bendis and Brubaker's runs for me, and his characterization of Spider-Man and Black Cat were spot on. I wasn't thrilled with Cacophony though, primarily because of Smith's Joker.

nepenthes

08-27-2009, 06:30 PM

So this is worth picking up then? Where is it set in continuity?.

If it weren't for Batman RIP/Batman Reborn it would seem very current. Batman mentions that Tim Drake will probably "go Nightwing" in a couple years, meaning that he'll go on his own after being a sidekick for a while. It also dwells on the Grayson Batman relationship a bit, Smith probably knew what was ahead in the status quo.

pariah-1972

08-27-2009, 07:44 PM

nepenthes

08-27-2009, 08:17 PM

The thing that annoys me is while Ivy has always been sexual she mostly just teases and flirts and uses her sexuality as a weapon to get what she wants.

Her going "hey you interested ? no? ok just sit here while i masturbate in front of you" is way out of character and kind of puerile to an extent that she has never been.

massive agree. that and every sentence from her mouth seemed to some contain some botanical pun that was more retarded than they were risque

that said I thought the idea that Ivy is pathologically insatiable could be interesting. In the hands of a more thoughtful and subtle writer of course. Many of Batmans villains are based on classic pathologies, if Batman was a Vertigo title this connection would be obvious. like carnivourous plants, they actually depend on attraction for their base survival, it's not just a thrill or a game anymore. extend attraction to the act of enveloping a victim...and, well it's self explanatory...

FunkyGreenJerusalem

08-27-2009, 08:32 PM

And how did that change Marvel?

Look at Marvel before that DD run, look at it now - you'll notice a difference.

Of all the Marvel Knights series, it was the bonanza that sold like a MF'er and got Quesada given the E.I.C role.

So it changed Marvel for the worse. Got it.

No - if Marvel had stayed where it was, there would be no Marvel.
Feel free to hate it if you want, but they brought the company back from Bankruptcy and into the profit maker it is today.

Heck, Marvel was so on the ropes they contracted another company - not even a smash hit success one - edit a line and take the out-of-the-box approach of hiring Kevin Smith too write a comic.
Seems like a no brainer, but at the time it wasn't.

Was GA bad? For GA, yes.

I don't understand this - they'd killed off the character and replaced him... that's how much GA was thought of at the time.
He brought him back, gave him ripper sales, and it's gone on from there.

It's not 'your GA', but that doesn't mean it's bad.

FunkyGreenJerusalem

08-27-2009, 08:40 PM

Funny you say that, because that's how he comes accross from reading his interviews. I find him to be incredibly adolescent and immature. And this guy is supposed to have a wife and kid.

He's not supposed to... he does.

Guy's got money, so the guy doesn't have to play along saying what he's told and be nice - heck, that's what got him the money, acting and talking the way he does... being himself.

Why would he change that?

His behaviour and language in interviews and articles I read on him.

The guy swears and so he's a terrible person?

His whole behaviour towards Bendis while he was on DareDevil.

That was dickish, but it was only about one thing - he didn't want anyone else using Daredevil.
He then said 'sorry, I was being a dick, you can use him', and Bendis forgave him, and then beat him at poker.

His whole flippant attitude about not keeping a monthly schedule.

To be fair to him, though it is unprofessional - it only ever coincides with him working on a film - which has more pressure and money at stake - and the companies let him get away with it.
DC played it smart with GA saying he had to have the lot in before they would solicit the work, but after, Marvel then let him go wild.

All of it left me with the impression that Kevin Smith is a very juvenile and extreemely immature man.

And this post has given me the impression that you're a judgmental prude, disconnected from reality.
Which probably isn't the case, which is why it's wrong to judge everyone from how you would behave.

(And I don't even know why I'm being such a Marvel and Smith apologist in this thread - two stances I don't even normally take! Stop being so subjective people!)

pariah-1972

08-27-2009, 09:05 PM

I understand where Mia is coming from essentially people who use Juvenile potty mouth language (not cursing)makes me think that the person is extremely immature and is trying to hard to be gross and or stupid.

It makes it much worse when it's forced into dialogue from comic book characters who never have spoken that way.

I'm not gonna judge him personally cause when the camera's are off and when he is home he could be a completely different person for all we know.

I haven't read many interviews with him where he was using offensive language or words, but i know that he is better than that and is a lot nicer person than most people give him credit for,
cause i have seen him talking to some guys from a fly by night late night cable show and he didn't have to talk to them at all but he was really cool.

The Shadow

08-27-2009, 10:46 PM

My personal opinion is that Smith is overrated. I don't plan to pick this up.
I'm with the Cap'n on this one.

I got Cacophony and was seriously disappointed in it. I liked the first issue, thought 2 was OK and 3 was dreadful surpassing even my lowest expectations.

I didn't like GA, I didn't like his Spider-Man and I just liked his DD at best. I think I am done with Kevin Smith comics... though I still like his movies!! :smile:

The Shadow

08-27-2009, 11:18 PM

His whole behaviour towards Bendis while he was on DareDevil.

What is this about? There was bad behaviour?

The Shadow

08-27-2009, 11:20 PM

Joe compares DC's superhero's properties to a porn star's genitalia
... huh... ? :confused: :confused:

S'plain please!

carabas

08-27-2009, 11:37 PM

He's said something along the lines of that with Superman, DC has the biggest pornstar dick in the world and simply doesn't know what to do with it.

dupersuper

08-28-2009, 02:48 AM

So this is worth picking up then? Where is it set in continuity?

Some time before Bludhaven blew up, with a flashback to Dick when he was Robin.

dupersuper

08-28-2009, 02:49 AM

He's said something along the lines of that with Superman, DC has the biggest pornstar dick in the world and simply doesn't know what to do with it.

The man is pure class.

Jim Thompson

08-28-2009, 04:45 AM

My personal opinion is that Smith is overrated. I don't plan to pick this up.Smith's works are very hit-or-miss for me. I loved his work on Daredevil and Green Arrow, but his mini-series for Spider-Man didn't do anything for me, for instance. I liked Cacophony, (and generally how's he's treated the Batman's character) so I'm giving this mini a shot.

Having said that, he's got some tough competition when it comes to being compared against the other books associated with the Bat-verse right now, I think.

Jim Thompson

08-28-2009, 04:45 AM

The man is pure class.Yeah, it was a pretty foolish, low-brow thing to say.

Karl O'Neill

08-28-2009, 09:58 AM

Excellent first issue. Interested to know who this new hero is?

Mat001

08-28-2009, 11:44 AM

His behaviour and language in interviews and articles I read on him. His whole behaviour towards Bendis while he was on DareDevil. His whole flippant attitude about not keeping a monthly schedule. All of it left me with the impression that Kevin Smith is a very juvenile and extreemely immature man.

He's never shied away from the fact that he's built his career around dick and fart jokes, as he put it. It's the immaturity that's made his career. And his some of his characters are loosely based on him.

David Walton

08-28-2009, 01:23 PM

He's never shied away from the fact that he's built his career around dick and fart jokes, as he put it. It's the immaturity that's made his career. And his some of his characters are loosely based on him.

You know, I think Smith is scrutinized more these days because he is no longer unique as the comics fan pseudo-celebrity made good. But in the 90s fans were thrilled to have a success story who not only read comics as a kid, but actually reveled in the entire comics culture and kept up to date with the characters and their worlds.

And one thing I'll say is that while his comics work has been hit-or-miss, you can always say that this is a guy who appreciates the material and knows the characters well.

CocktailXYZ

08-28-2009, 05:09 PM

Some "choice" dialog from this issue:

"How many times does a guy ever get to square off against a colossal turd like Baron Blitzkrieg?"

"The broad just wigged out, whacked the guards, and took the place over..."

"Tryin' to get up in my $%*@ kool aid, ya piece'a *@#$!"

"You're the original bad-ass."

Why is so hard for me to hear the actual voice of the characters behind these lines and not Smith himself?

Aside from some of the dialog choices, a decent issue. I'll give issue two a chance.

vitruvian

08-31-2009, 07:26 PM

I generally like Kevin Smith, but why use a character like Blitzkrieg if you don't even know his powers? The only purpose the Baron's armor served was a measure of protection; he never got any of his powers from it, and therefore it doesn't make sense for some punk to later be empowered by wearing it.

Also, I think the Baron's appearances messing with Damage occurred well after Dick made the transition from Robin to Nightwing, so Robin can't have been the end of the original's career.

Steven Ghost

09-01-2009, 09:26 PM

Cacophony was pretty mediocre in my opinion, but I still checked out the first issue to Widening Gyre and it was definitely a step up. if the next couple of issues are this good, I'll get the whole series.

Raptor

09-01-2009, 09:40 PM

I'll give it a shot, espeically if I can read more Huntress.

Andrew T

09-01-2009, 09:42 PM

Some time before Bludhaven blew up, with a flashback to Dick when he was Robin.

Thanks.

Some "choice" dialog from this issue:

"How many times does a guy ever get to square off against a colossal turd like Baron Blitzkrieg?"

"The broad just wigged out, whacked the guards, and took the place over..."

"Tryin' to get up in my $%*@ kool aid, ya piece'a *@#$!"

"You're the original bad-ass."

Why is so hard for me to hear the actual voice of the characters behind these lines and not Smith himself?

Aside from some of the dialog choices, a decent issue. I'll give issue two a chance.

None of these lines seem to be particularly strange for their respective speakers to say. Especially the last, considering that he's a new character. I can't believe you left out "It's okay to smile, Squidward" though. :smile: I can understand the problem though. I get it a lot with Bendis.

Much better than I was expecting.

Jim Thompson

09-02-2009, 04:00 AM

Tweedsuitcase

09-02-2009, 04:56 AM

Jim Thompson

09-02-2009, 04:58 AM

One small complaint, maybe unfair, but i was hoping in a showcase event like this, just for presentation purposes, there wouldn't be several pages of previews in the back. in fact, i'm getting sick of these alltoger! i always think i have more pages left in the comic than i do. suddenly the story is over ,and theres 3-4 pages of previews. i understand why they are there, but i don't have to like them! :)I'm getting tired of those preview pages, too. It's not so much that they are there, even, but that it is the same previews no matter which comic I get. After the first time looking at it, it's just wasted space for me.

Karl O'Neill

09-02-2009, 05:04 AM

Who is the new hero who saved batman?

Anubis? dog head?

Jim Thompson

09-02-2009, 05:05 AM

Who is the new hero who saved batman?

Anubis? dog head?Maybe it's Anarchy with a new look -- or perhaps it's Terry McGuiness!

Chris S.

09-02-2009, 05:50 AM

One small complaint, maybe unfair, but i was hoping in a showcase event like this, just for presentation purposes, there wouldn't be several pages of previews in the back. in fact, i'm getting sick of these alltoger! i always think i have more pages left in the comic than i do. suddenly the story is over ,and theres 3-4 pages of previews. i understand why they are there, but i don't have to like them! :)

DC is trying to make up for the price hike I believe. I enjoy the fact that they respect the fans enough to try to give them more for their buck. I do agree the preview pages are a bit annoying though.

Chris S.

09-02-2009, 05:53 AM

I really enjoyed this first issue, and I'll be giving the rest of the series a shot. I like the way Smith is using Bruce's knowledge that he'll eventually have to hand over the Mantle of the Bat to someone else as part of the story.

And I don't know about anyone else, but I'm digging this art.

I wasn't to sure what to think of this issue. I hated Smith's work on Spider-Man. I've tried to come into this story with an open mind but that is difficult sometimes.

I wasn't too sure what to think of the art. My LCS guy said Smith and Flannigan were really good friends though. I thought that was kind of interesting.

I think a lot of this series will depend on how quickly they get it out. If it suffers delays I probably will loose interest quickly.

Jim Thompson

09-02-2009, 05:59 AM

I wasn't to sure what to think of this issue. I hated Smith's work on Spider-Man. I've tried to come into this story with an open mind but that is difficult sometimes.

I wasn't too sure what to think of the art. My LCS guy said Smith and Flannigan were really good friends though. I thought that was kind of interesting.

I think a lot of this series will depend on how quickly they get it out. If it suffers delays I probably will loose interest quickly.I agree with you that delays would hurt this series a lot. Smith has to show he's got the ability to meet a deadline. His material simply isn't good enough to survive long periods between issues, I think.

CocktailXYZ

09-02-2009, 07:17 AM

I will admit I couldn't help but smile at the "He pulled a me" line. That was classic.

Jim Thompson

09-02-2009, 08:18 AM

I will admit I couldn't help but smile at the "He pulled a me" line. That was classic.I liked that myself! :biggrin:

Ullar

09-02-2009, 05:50 PM

This story is actually 12 issues but it is cut in half to avoid deadlines. The first six issues are all done. Also the new hero introduced in the end will get a bi-monthly ongoing written by Smith launched between the 2 half's of this book.. BTW I read this one Smiths blog.

mindcrime

09-02-2009, 08:08 PM

the fact that the demon showed up eating a child rapest just made this whole series for me. i just hope mr.smith is gonna use entrigan more in this story.:evilsmile:

TJR357

09-09-2009, 08:30 AM

Anyone read it yet? Thoughts?

peagreenboy

09-09-2009, 09:13 AM

Chris S.

09-09-2009, 09:17 AM

I thought it was surprisingly good, more than I expected. Still, it's Kevin Smith so I will not be holding my breath for a regular schedule, or even completion.

Poison Ivy : Hubba Hubba!

Didn't this come out weeks ago? I thought there was just a complete lack of interest on the board for this comic.
There is actually a thread someone on here announcing Kevin Smith doing a mini. At the time I don't think there was a ton of information. It ended up being this very mini and that is where we discussed this issue.

I'm new to Batman so I thought I'd give it a try. It was decent. Not too sure how I feel about buying a Kevin Smith comic again though.

Narcissisticnation

09-09-2009, 12:03 PM

Surprisingly good. Pretty gory. Caught me off guard. But a good read. plus Ivy is HOT

Karl O'Neill

09-09-2009, 12:05 PM

Very good read. Will have to pick up issue 2.

Much better than his preview batman mini.

The art is also improved this time around. Even though it is the same artist. He got better!

I like the new HERO as well. he looks cool.

janthonyh

09-09-2009, 02:59 PM

i really enjoyed it, I'd like to see this new characters ongoing happen though, I couldn't tell if this was for sure confirmed.

Sn4tcH

09-09-2009, 06:08 PM

Glad to hear people are enjoying it. I liked his Daredevil and Green Arrow, but hated his first attempt at Batman. I'll have to check it out.

goat

09-09-2009, 06:22 PM

I enjoyed it. I was pretty happy to see the classic Atomic Skull costume again, as one of my first comics was Superman #323, and the art was better than I thought. Only really bad art I saw was Two-Face. Overall, I am on board for this for all 6 issues....or as many as there actually are.

Andrew T

09-09-2009, 07:12 PM

Leaps and bounds better than Cacophony.

Also, the closest I've seen to Ivy actually pleasuring herself on panel.

Jim Thompson

09-09-2009, 07:19 PM

I very much enjoyed the first issue and am looking forward to the second. Solid story with decent dialogue, and better art than I expected.

Babylon23

09-11-2009, 12:16 AM

I really disliked the first issue, so much so that I won't be reading the rest of the series. The story didn't grab me, the dialogue read more like Jay and Silent Bob than Batman, and I wasn't impressed by the artwork.

frostedone

09-11-2009, 08:03 PM

I really liked this issue. Better then his previous series by far.

The new Anubis looking hero looks cool.

The best part? Batman referenced pretty much all of the characters in the Bat-clan. Dick, Tim, Cassandra, Huntress. That is much better then what most people do.

Also the Squidward and the "He pulled a me" line was great. I will definetly pick up issue 2.

The Xenos

10-02-2009, 05:36 PM

Wow. Some very interesting cameos and appearances in this new issue. Seems Smith is a pretty damn well read writer. He gives us a wonderfully creepy villian from Gaiman's Sandman. That was a pleasent surprise. He also seems to have somehow tied into Englehart and Rodger's last mini series. Very interesting to see those.

likalaruku

10-02-2009, 07:15 PM

I loved Cacophony, & Widening Gyre is just as funny.

I remember Cacophony coming out a month after I reread "Azrael:Agent of the Bat 53: Jelly Bean Death Trap" "Joker:Switch" "Batman:Secrets" & "Detective Comics 826: Slayride" & was thinking that Batman could really use more humor.

I got into Batman from the 90s cartoon, so I'm more than fine with the art. I'd have liked to have seen Ivy wearing a little more in that last issue though. I like my redheads canivving, spitefull, & bitchy, so yeah, Poison Ivy was the only meh part of issue 1. That part with the bugs was funny cuz it happened to me once. I loved how smarmy he made Alfred in this issue; that's the Alfred I love & know.

CYOTI

11-04-2009, 08:01 PM

Always good to see more of Silver St. Cloud. Too bad Marshall Rogers can't draw her.

Thursaiz

11-05-2009, 09:21 AM

I loved Aquaman's last line in the issue.

Enjoying the series so far, and I'm a huge Kevin Smith fan. I'm interested to see where the new character ends up.

byron lomax

11-05-2009, 02:49 PM

Haven't gotten to read this yet, though it's nice to see Cornelius Stirk make a comeback!

Mulbard

11-11-2009, 01:29 PM

Would it be a silly question (bearing in mind I haven't read it) to ask is this in-continuity or not?

RonnieThunderbolts

11-11-2009, 01:38 PM

Would it be a silly question (bearing in mind I haven't read it) to ask is this in-continuity or not?

Although I've seen some people assuming it isn't, according to all the press and interviews about the series, it seems as though it is in continuity, just before Bruce died. The earliest press and interviews say that an ongoing title about the original character introduced in the series by Smith is forthcoming. The ongoing is supposedly coming following the second half of the series. It is worth mentioning there is a hiatus scheduled between the first and second set of six issues for the Widening Gyre mini, and then at some point, supposedly a Baphomet series.