Is adamantium overrated?

[MTL76]

This has been grinding my gears for a while. Adamantium is booked as the "unbreakable" metal. Granted, I have no problem with it being the most indestructible metal on Earth. But it always seemed a bit silly to me that this man-made substance is treated as the most indestructible stuff in the universe. I would think that the Shi'ar and the other spacefaring races who are about a zillion technological years ahead of Earth would have no problems cutting through it, the same way humans have no problems shaping and molding steel. And they'd have developed stronger metals too. Same goes for the gods; the axe of Ares should be stronger than some metal made on Earth.

[Blind pugh]

Uru & Adamantine should bust Adamantium up.
ALOT

[Soundrave]

Are we talking true adamantium or secondary adamantium?

Carbonadium would f adamantium in the a.

[pharoahe22]

Uru & Adamantine should bust Adamantium up.
ALOT

I think it was named "Adamantium, because it had properties like the mythic metal that Ares's Weapons are made of. I still think Adamantium's a little tougher. Uru's been broken several times. It was established way back when that Adamantium was a little tougher than Uru when Thor couldn't make a dent in the Adamantium. I'm not talking about the movie, but isn't Adamantium supposed to be meteor rock? That would mean it is alien in nature....There's only so much of it on Earth, which would have to mean either it didn't come from earth, or it's just a really super rare element.

[ĐØМ]

Adamantium was created on Earth. The meteor rock thing was just for the movie.

[hunter_peterson]

It's made from several metals and rare chemicals, apparently.

Also, Cap's steel/vibranium sheild is stronger, but it's a sheild.

[Expletive Deleted]

Adamantium was created on Earth. The meteor rock thing was just for the movie.The meteor rock was clearly supposed to be vibranium.

[Zomling]

I've got no problem with adamantium being indestructable. My problem is how much of it there seems to be in the current MU.

For a material that is hard to make and only a handful of people actually know how to do it, how come everyone and his brother/clone/son/sister has an adamantium widget of some kind?

[spiderman_rj]

isnt vibranium suposed to be stronger than adamantium ?

[pharoahe22]

I originally thought that Adamantium was either a combo of really rare metals, or an alien element that fell to Earth a long time ago...but

Let's see what Wikipedia has to say:

Adamantium is a fictional man-made metal alloy that has been depicted largely within the pages of comic books published by Marvel Comics. Adamantium is frequently described as being virtually indestructible and the exact chemical composition is a United States government classified secret. Adamantium is not an element: its properties do not qualify it for any known space on the Periodic Table of Elements. Rather, Adamantium is a series of closely related compounds of iron created through a secret process discovered by the American metallurgist Dr. Myron MacLain.

History and properties of adamantium in the Marvel Universe
Adamantium was first created by metallurgist Dr. Myron MacLain during the late 1960s in an attempt to recreate the unique Vibranium-steel alloy of Captain America's shield, though Adamantium contains no Vibranium. While MacLain is unable to duplicate the process or discover the unknown element that created the alloy, he does create a material that is very similar on a molecular level and is almost as durable. Adamantium is created by mixing several chemical resins together; the exact formula is a secret. After the resins are mixed together, the adamantium can be molded into different shapes for approximately eight minutes as long as the mixture is kept at a temperature of 1,500 °F (816°C). Adamantium's extremely stable molecular structure prevents it from being further molded after this eight-minute time period even if the temperature is high enough to keep it in its liquified form. In its solid form, it is colorless, shiny, and resembles high-grade steel or titanium. It is at least somewhat magnetic, since Magneto has manipulated it on multiple occasions.

Adamantium is astronomically expensive to create and the process is unreliable, often resulting in an inferior grade since the chemical resins mixed to create adamantium are a carefully guarded secret. As a result, supervillains almost never try to create it but seek instead to harvest it from existing sources and rearrange it on a molecular level: Apocalypse has harvested adamantium from Sabretooth, and Genesis has harvested adamantium from Cyber.

Walter Simonson planned for Apocalypse to be the mastermind behind the Weapon X project that gave Wolverine his adamantium skeleton. In Wolverine: Jungle Adventure (1990), Wolverine discovers an adamantium-laced skull in Apocalypse's laboratory, and comments how it seem to have been there for eons. Since Simonson' plans apparently never came to conclusion, the scene possibly suggests that Apocalypse developed the technology to bond adamantium to bones centuries before anyone else.

Secondary adamantium
As true adamantium is extremely difficult and expensive to create or manipulate, some parties found a way to duplicate it on a larger and more cost-effective scale at the expense of quality and durability. For most practical purposes, this secondary adamantium is also largely indestructible. Conventional weapons, such as ballistic missiles, have no effect on it; it is far stronger than even the most durable of titanium or steel compounds. However, extraordinary blunt force, such as a punch from a being with superhuman strength, can warp or break it. Unconventional forms of energy discharges have also been known to warp or damage secondary adamantium, such as Thor's lightning attacks using Mjolnir. Writers created secondary adamantium to deal with supposedly indestructible adamantium having been damaged or destroyed in the past; all such instances were retconned as appearances of secondary adamantium.


Adamantium beta
Adamantium beta is a new metal created as a side-effect of the process of bonding true adamantium to Wolverine's bones. His Healing Factor not only allowed him to survive the process, but also induced a molecular change in the metal. Adamantium beta functions identically to true adamantium, but it does not inhibit the biological processes of bone. Adamantium beta was first explained in Wolverine (vol.2) #80 (1994).

Carbonadium
Carbonadium is a resilient, unstable metal that is vastly stronger than steel but more flexible than adamantium. It is stated in X-Men vol.2 #7 that carbonadium is, in fact, both a more malleable and cheaper version of adamantium. Due to its malleability, carbonadium is less durable than true adamantium, but still nearly indestructible. Omega Red (an adversary of The X-Men) has carbonadium coils through which he can transmit his ability to drain life energies. Carbonadium is highly radioactive and a very small amount, if ingested, has proven capable of dramatically slowing down Wolverine's healing factor. The only device that can produce carbonadium, known as the Carbonadium Synthesizer, was initially believed thrown into a river in Brussels by Wolverine; it has since been revealed that the Carbonadium Synthesizer had been hidden on the deceased body of a double-agent who died escaping Omega Red along with Wolverine, Sabretooth and Maverick. The synthesizer was retrieved and handed back to Maverick, whose mission was to retrieve the item for parties unknown. If implanted within the body, objects composed of Carbonadium have proven to slow the accelerated healing factors of Wolverine[1] and his son Daken.[2] While slowed considerably, their healing powers aren't completely supressed. It is currently unknown if Carbonadium affects other beings with superhuman healing powers in a similar manner.

[pharoahe22]

isnt vibranium suposed to be stronger than adamantium ?

No, but Cap's special Vibranium-Steel Alloy shield composition is supposed to be a little bit tougher

[Qoorl]

isnt vibranium suposed to be stronger than adamantium ?

Not necessarily, but it DOES have the property that it absorbs energy unlike adamantium which I THINK is just hard.

[ĐØМ]

The meteor rock was clearly supposed to be vibranium.


Was it? I didn't get anything from the movie that suggested that.

[Sighphi]

isnt vibranium suposed to be stronger than adamantium ?

There are two types.
The Wakanda one absorbs stuff, energy and so on and the Antarctic one breaks stuff. That includes Adamantium.

[MNM]

Was it? I didn't get anything from the movie that suggested that.

It wasnt, it was adamantium. They even refer back to it later in the film when they infuse wolverine with it.

[GHalecki]

Just because Thor couldn't break Adamantium with his Uru hammer, that in NO way means that Uru is not as strong or stronger. It isn't like Thor shattered his hammer on it.
It just proved that both the Uru and the Adamantium are strong enough to withstand the force that Thor excerted when he swung the Hammer.

It is like if I took a bar of steel and swung it at an iron frying pan. Neither would probably break, although one is clearly stronger then the other.

Also, when it comes to materials like metal, there is strength and hardness. These are two very diferent things, but they seem to be incorrectly lumped together.

[MTL76]

Just because Thor couldn't break Adamantium with his Uru hammer, that in NO way means that Uru is not as strong or stronger. It isn't like Thor shattered his hammer on it.
It just proved that both the Uru and the Adamantium are strong enough to withstand the force that Thor excerted when he swung the Hammer.

It is like if I took a bar of steel and swung it at an iron frying pan. Neither would probably break, although one is clearly stronger then the other.

Also, when it comes to materials like metal, there is strength and hardness. These are two very diferent things, but they seem to be incorrectly lumped together.

Good point... though with your example, I'd think Thor should be strong enough to break, or at least bend, adamantium as long as it wasn't ridiculously thick...

I was actually going to make a similar point, that even if Wolvie's claws are made of the sharpest metal ever created, he really shouldn't be able to generate enough force to punch them through steel plate... but I'm often the one railing against realism in comic books (usually in regards to ethical dilemmas like the no-kill rule), so I felt it would be out of character! :biggrin:

[Expletive Deleted]

Was it? I didn't get anything from the movie that suggested that.It was a meteoric metal hidden in Africa that was used to develop Adamantium.

If it was supposed to be Adamantium (and I don't recall Stryker's monologue exactly), they gave it Vibranium's "origin."

[Avenger08]

I thought Vibranium was stronger.

And cant Anti-Vibranium melt or break down Adamantium?

[_OM_]

I think it was named "Adamantium, because it had properties like the mythic metal that Ares's Weapons are made of.

..."Adamantium" was, IIRC, what the gates of Heaven and Hell were supposedly forged from, at least according to Dante. A metal so strong and hard that only God/Yahweh/Roddenberry could do anything to it.

[RolandJP]

Kirbite and Stanleetanium are the strongest.

[GHalecki]

I have been saying that about Wolverine's cutting ability for years.

Give me a steel razor blade and an oak tree, and no matter how sharp the razor is, I will never be able to slice through that tree. And we all know how much stronger steel is then wood.

It is one thing if it is a uniquely special sword like the Ebony Blade or that sword that Nemesis from the old Alpha Flight series had, but they are completely diferent animals.

[sherlockbones]

I have been saying that about Wolverine's cutting ability for years.

Give me a steel razor blade and an oak tree, and no matter how sharp the razor is, I will never be able to slice through that tree. And we all know how much stronger steel is then wood.

I always thought of them in a teflon-kinda way.otherwise he´d be stuck most of the time he slices/stabs something. I only recall something like that in the first team-up with cap vs tess1.

on the other side he shouldn´t be able to climb something with his claws. I guess you just have to ignore certain laws to not spoil the fun

[MTL76]

I guess you just have to ignore certain laws to not spoil the fun

Agreed x 100.

[Jmacq1]

I thought Vibranium was stronger.

And cant Anti-Vibranium melt or break down Adamantium?

Yes it can, but that's a chemical/molecular property, not because the Vibranium has a higher material strength.

Vibranium is very strong, but much of its' strength comes from the fact that it absorbs kinetic energy, so most of the force directed against it gets absorbed rather than damaging the metal.

[_OM_]

...From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adamant

...The quote I remember was not only from Dante, as he got it from Virgil:

Adamantine has, throughout ancient history, referred to anything that was made of a very hard material. Virgil describes Tartarus as having a screeching gate protected by columns of solid adamantine (Aeneid book VI). Later, by the Middle Ages, the term came to refer to diamond, as it was the hardest material then known, and remains the hardest non-synthetic material known.

...Wolverine with crystalline claws just wouldn't have quite the slice visually, although I could see a really cool set of teeth like that. Sure would put Mr. Clean's sapphire teeth to shame :biggrin: :biggrin:

[mimic_616]

Yup, its overrated. The number of characters that have given Wolverine a right or left hook and their hands have come away none the worse is ridiculous. :rolleyes:

[hunter_peterson]

True, it works far better defensively than offensively in Wolverine's case. The metal skeleton makes him hard to safely lay hands on, unless you go for his soft bits (neck, balls, ect.).

Although, as it is "similar to Vibranium" in molecular structure, it could be assumed that it has some sort of property that allows it to disrupt molecular bonding, if only slightly. This would explain the impossible cutting power shown. Just think Progressive Knife from Evangelion. Can cut through lots and not get stuck, but can't cut everything all the time.

[Rayven]

Kirbite and Stanleetanium are the strongest.

http://www.dahmus.org/blogimg/fry-see-what-you-did-there.jpg
:biggrin:

[Captain Commander]

This has been grinding my gears for a while. Adamantium is booked as the "unbreakable" metal. Granted, I have no problem with it being the most indestructible metal on Earth. But it always seemed a bit silly to me that this man-made substance is treated as the most indestructible stuff in the universe. I would think that the Shi'ar and the other spacefaring races who are about a zillion technological years ahead of Earth would have no problems cutting through it, the same way humans have no problems shaping and molding steel. And they'd have developed stronger metals too. Same goes for the gods; the axe of Ares should be stronger than some metal made on Earth.

Maybe Adamantium is just the best possible full stop. Could be the Shi'ar and others also use Adamantium but call it something else.

[Crowforge]

The biggest problem I have with adamantium is that even if it is unbreakable it still shouldn't be able to cut through stuff as easily as it does. Especially with as thick as wolverines claws are it should get stuck in metal and stone, provided he had the strength to punch through in the first place.

[Somebody]

The biggest problem I have with adamantium is that even if it is unbreakable it still shouldn't be able to cut through stuff as easily as it does. Especially with as thick as wolverines claws are it should get stuck in metal and stone, provided he had the strength to punch through in the first place.

Go look at the Acts of Vengeance Wolverine arc, where exactly that happens... while Wolverine is underwater.

[Sighphi]

Go look at the Acts of Vengeance Wolverine arc, where exactly that happens... while Wolverine is underwater.

Stuff like that should happen all the time, though, Wolverine isnt the Hulk. The dude is stronger than the average man but he shouldn't be slicing stuff like nothing.

[Blackhawkk]

This is about as boring as high school chemistry.

[The Black Guardian]

This is about as boring as high school chemistry.
To each their own. Chemistry held my interest more than most other classes.

[Crowforge]

I love science second only to art.

[Finganforn]

I think more than overratted, it is overetarded the ways it is portrayed. First we have the already mentioned bull crap "Wolverine can cutz everything like butter", which is illogical considering MU reality, or supposed to be reality (as they describe it). Similar are the bullets, it isn't because the bullet won't shatter or crush on impact that they will go through the target, if our guns can't shot through a mountain, it won't go all the way through a guy like hulk, barely pass his skin, maybe. The worst for me is when they make it look like if it is a paper-thin it will stop people like Hulk, Thor or Hercules. Okay, it is resistant, but it still is physical, those guys have strength in a planetary scale, they're themselves resistant and strong too, the thickness should matter for the case. They go too much for the "unbreakable" thing, too much literal interpretation, regardless of its resistance, it is still a metal alloy, it should act like one, not like a semi-mythical-cosmic unbreakable-because-it-is substance.

[MichaelChen]

Kurt Busiek said it should be truly unbreakable, because it is a plot-device for when you absolutely positively need even the most powerful hero to just not be able to smash something with raw power. I agree. Adamantium is a plot device of unbreakability. That should be preserved. Otherwise you're just going to have to invent a strongerthanadamantium metal when the day comes that you need the hero to simply not be able to break something.

[StoneGold]

I have been saying that about Wolverine's cutting ability for years.

Give me a steel razor blade and an oak tree, and no matter how sharp the razor is, I will never be able to slice through that tree. And we all know how much stronger steel is then wood.

It is one thing if it is a uniquely special sword like the Ebony Blade or that sword that Nemesis from the old Alpha Flight series had, but they are completely diferent animals.

And if Captain America's shield actually had the energy dampening abilities it is supposed to, it should drop like a brick whenever he tries to bounce it off something.



Well, it should probably do that anyway. But that's a different issue.

[Finganforn]

Kurt Busiek said it should be truly unbreakable, because it is a plot-device for when you absolutely positively need even the most powerful hero to just not be able to smash something with raw power. I agree. Adamantium is a plot device of unbreakability. That should be preserved. Otherwise you're just going to have to invent a strongerthanadamantium metal when the day comes that you need the hero to simply not be able to break something.

It is not necessary. To have that same plot device all you need is a thicker adamantium for example, works just like the same on solo histories, but also allow multiple characters interaction to go more fluid, without the restraint "cant break because you can't" that the material imposes. See that crossover between the ultimates and supreme squadron. Hyperion vs U-Wolvie (can't cut) but U-Wolvie can cut the U-Hulk, who was at least as resistant as Hyperion considering how much trouble he gave him / the punches he could stand.


And if Captain America's shield actually had the energy dampening abilities it is supposed to, it should drop like a brick whenever he tries to bounce it off something.

Well, it should probably do that anyway. But that's a different issue.

Isn't the bounces due to some property his shield have to always tend to return to the point were it was thrown from? I always heard it had something like that, though I never cared to confirm.

[widdershins]

Plot-devices of unbreakability exist. They are called force-fields. The idea that, for example, a metal can resist temperatures a million times higher than the ones at which all other metals melt is a bit too Silver Age for me.

[StoneGold]

Isn't the bounces due to some property his shield have to always tend to return to the point were it was thrown from? I always heard it had something like that, though I never cared to confirm.

Nope, just its unique aerodynamic shape, and Cap's throwing arm. Still, if it absorbs 95% of all energy, it should hit a wall and drop like a stone. No energy for rebound.


I mean, that said, the physics of throwing any object against someone hard enough to knock them down, yet rebound back to hit three other people in the same way, just don't exist no matter what. We're talking people, not billiard balls. But like the song says, you should really just relax.

[worstblogever]

Kurt Busiek said it should be truly unbreakable, because it is a plot-device for when you absolutely positively need even the most powerful hero to just not be able to smash something with raw power. I agree. Adamantium is a plot device of unbreakability. That should be preserved. Otherwise you're just going to have to invent a strongerthanadamantium metal when the day comes that you need the hero to simply not be able to break something.

What if it was unbreakable... but bendable?

Thus, Hulk could bend the metal bones in Wolverine's arm... and snap the bones on the inside, assuring they'd never heal the right way, contained in the bent metal frame.

Ugh. That'd hurt, in any event.

[StoneGold]

What if it was unbreakable... but bendable?

Thus, Hulk could bend the metal bones in Wolverine's arm... and snap the bones on the inside, assuring they'd never heal the right way, contained in the bent metal frame.

Ugh. That'd hurt, in any event.

It would make more sense if it was flexible more than bendable.

[HVulpes]

A Thought...

We have organic Steel and Organic Diamond... what about organic Adamantium or Vibranium? Could Wolverine slice into a mutant who turns into living Adamantium?

[daveageallen]

is collousus made of organic adamantium? or something as strong? i seem to remeber a time woverine couldnt cut through his metal skin

[MichaelChen]

No, just a really tough metal. Wolverine could always scratch his skin, but couldn't use to create deep cuts simply because he lacked the strength.

Of course, the last fight I remember them having was pre-godverine. These days, he'd casually carve Collossus up.

[MichaelChen]

What if it was unbreakable... but bendable?

Thus, Hulk could bend the metal bones in Wolverine's arm... and snap the bones on the inside, assuring they'd never heal the right way, contained in the bent metal frame.

Ugh. That'd hurt, in any event.

That would still destroy it's plot device purpose of being something the hero just can not deal with directly, requiring them to use their minds to get around the problem.

Why is it so hard to accept that adamantium is > your favorite character? Why is it so hard to accept that the only reason it exists is to be > your favorite character whenever the plot requires that something be > your favorite character?

[Captain Commander]

The biggest problem I have with adamantium is that even if it is unbreakable it still shouldn't be able to cut through stuff as easily as it does. Especially with as thick as wolverines claws are it should get stuck in metal and stone, provided he had the strength to punch through in the first place.
Agreed, for example Colossus' metal skin....
is collousus made of organic adamantium? or something as strong? i seem to remeber a time woverine couldnt cut through his metal skin

[worstblogever]

The mystery I always get puzzled by, with Adamantium is this.

Many times, its stated that the only reason Wolverine can have adamantium bonded to his skeleton, is that his healing factor compensates for the fact that the metal is toxic to have within the human body. In fact, whenever Logan is stripped of his healing factor, via neutralizers, characters like Leech or say, Scrambler, or even something like the High Evolutionary erasing the mutant genome for like a weekend... when that happens... Wolverine starts dying of adamantium poisoning.

And yet...

Bullseye has an adamantium spine, but no discernable healing factor, and is fine.

Catch-22?

[MichaelChen]

Yeah, for that matter, how can adamantium be poisonous when it is indestructable? The reason why metals like lead and iron can poison us is because our body is full of mild acids and such. Our bodies corrode and slowly dissolve such metals. The dissolved metals then leech into our bloodstreams.

So how can a metal that is absolutely invulnerable to all the little chemicals in our bodies ever leech into our bloodstreams?

[MTL76]

No, just a really tough metal. Wolverine could always scratch his skin, but couldn't use to create deep cuts simply because he lacked the strength.

Of course, the last fight I remember them having was pre-godverine. These days, he'd casually carve Collossus up.

Heh. I don't remember even seeing Wolvie use his claws on Colossus, but that would make sense, that he'd only be trong enough to scratch the surface.

That would still destroy it's plot device purpose of being something the hero just can not deal with directly, requiring them to use their minds to get around the problem.

Why is it so hard to accept that adamantium is > your favorite character? Why is it so hard to accept that the only reason it exists is to be > your favorite character whenever the plot requires that something be > your favorite character?

It's not earthly heroes being unable to break adamantium that I thought was too much, it was more the cosmic entities, magical beings, gods and highly advanced alien races.

[Ratwedge]

Well thing is that anything that can break down the bonds of the metal, like Molecular Man did to Cap's shield could effectively make the metal worthless in a scrap. Its not inconceivable that the alien races could have counters for such metals and instead use other things.

I do think that there is loads of it laying around the universe but I always preferred Wanadakan and Antarctic vibranium for its exotic properties instead of the whole "OMG UNBREAKABLE METAL" that Adamantium.

[Dagger]

The mystery I always get puzzled by, with Adamantium is this.

Many times, its stated that the only reason Wolverine can have adamantium bonded to his skeleton, is that his healing factor compensates for the fact that the metal is toxic to have within the human body. In fact, whenever Logan is stripped of his healing factor, via neutralizers, characters like Leech or say, Scrambler, or even something like the High Evolutionary erasing the mutant genome for like a weekend... when that happens... Wolverine starts dying of adamantium poisoning.

And yet...

Bullseye has an adamantium spine, but no discernable healing factor, and is fine.

Catch-22?
He has some kind of device implanted in him to counter the effects of adamantium poisoning.

[worstblogever]

He has some kind of device implanted in him to counter the effects of adamantium poisoning.

But all the times he's electrocuted (including by the nanotech during Ellis' first Thunderbolts arc) or banged around, it never has been damaged, and caused a leak.

It's still kind of wonky. And, why give him an adamantium spine? He had a condition to be corrected, sure... but did the metal absolutely have to be the toughest stuff on the planet? Couldn't it have been just titanium, or what have you?

[Dagger]

But all the times he's electrocuted (including by the nanotech during Ellis' first Thunderbolts arc) or banged around, it never has been damaged, and caused a leak.

It's still kind of wonky. And, why give him an adamantium spine? He had a condition to be corrected, sure... but did the metal absolutely have to be the toughest stuff on the planet? Couldn't it have been just titanium, or what have you?
IDK. I just know that that's how it was explained. Maybe when he gets electrocuted, he goes to a doctor off panel and has it repaired. He probably has to get it repaired for maintenance every now and then anyways.

[Captain Commander]

Well thing is that anything that can break down the bonds of the metal, like Molecular Man did to Cap's shield could effectively make the metal worthless in a scrap.
So true, I had forgotten all about the matter changers. Sersi vs Wolverine would end up with a Wolverine as a lump of coal (Adamantium and all).