CBR: X-POSITION: Chris Claremont

[CBR News]

Legendary X-Men writer Chris Claremont answers your questions about "X-Men Forever," the new series where he brings the team kicking (and occasionally screaming) into the 21st century.


Full article here (http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=21090).

[Slant]

That bit with Rogue and Storm flying alongside the blackbird is just like the TAS opening.

[Agent_Torpor]

LOL at that brown-nosing.

Granted, it is Master Claremont...

[justinkos91]

This book looks good
Great X-position

[Prodigy55]

LOL. he answered my joke questions!

<3 CC!!!

[Yearning4Yorick]

Except for the nice preview art there really wasn't much new information in this. I look forward to this be-weekly series.

[Dagger]

I still don't enjoy his art, but I may enjoy the story. I guess I'll have to 'wait and see'. Question: Why would Kitty need to save Jean? Has she lost the ability to fly at this point? The art wasn't clear, I don't know if she got hit in the head.

[psycwave]

Go Claremont!!!!

[Maestro]

I'm buying this comic for the 90's costumes

[Prodigy55]

It's sad that the New X-Men won't be appearing in this comic.

[Aguja]

Well there really wasn't a whole lot of information given, which kind of sucks :frown:

I like the art, but I'm not feeling the story. Jean/Scott/Logan again? Please no, it's tres cliche now. Just let Jean and Scott be happy like they were meant to be.

Classic Rogue is a good thing though.

And LOL at the Sage question

[Fatguy]

It's sad that the New X-Men won't be appearing in this comic.

I'm sold!!

[Yearning4Yorick]

I don't quite remember, but was the Scott/Jean/Logan love triangle even in use during the 1990-1991 time frame? I thought all three had out grown that?

[Aguja]

I don't quite remember, but was the Scott/Jean/Logan love triangle even in use during the 1990-1991 time frame? I thought all three had out grown that?

Yeah I thought so too. Although didn't the 90s have Betsy chasing after Scott?

Oh I forgot to mention Evil Emma will be refreshing.

[darknessatnoon]

I'm sold!!

"Doubtful, I’m afraid." Beautiful.

[Prodigy55]

He never said never!

[Dagger]

I don't quite remember, but was the Scott/Jean/Logan love triangle even in use during the 1990-1991 time frame? I thought all three had out grown that?
Don't think so. It was used in the X-Tinction Agenda, which happened right before the relaunch.

[Hi-Fi]

Holy f#*k, classic Rogue!

[darknessatnoon]

Holy f#*k, classic Rogue!

She looks good, but Storm definitely needs to ditch the shoulder pads and get a haircut.

[Agent_Torpor]

It's sad that the New X-Men won't be appearing in this comic.

That's not a dealbreaker for me. In fact, it's somewhat of a bonus!!!

[crichjarvis]

Killing X-Men... inserting Nick Fury... moving forward with new dangerous villians that have nothing to do with continuity...
Seems like it's the same old Claremont from X-Treme, New Exiles...
Not sure about how much I'll like this.

It doesn't seem like X-Men in 90's was heading in this direction.
I'd rather see a more natural organic story telling process - fed from X-Men 1-3 90's plots... not a... let's see how far away I can take this in 2 issues.

Seems like CC without editorial guidance could be a disaster.

[Fatguy]

I might actually buy this, my morbid curiosity has little to no bounds.

[Slant]

You have to admit the team shown in the previews thus far is pretty much the best team ever.

[eurazn]

I still don't enjoy his art, but I may enjoy the story. I guess I'll have to 'wait and see'. Question: Why would Kitty need to save Jean? Has she lost the ability to fly at this point? The art wasn't clear, I don't know if she got hit in the head.

At first I thought it was simply to get them out of the plane faster, but then it seemed Jean was unconscious?

Yeah I thought so too. Although didn't the 90s have Betsy chasing after Scott?

Oh I forgot to mention Evil Emma will be refreshing.

Betsy didn't start chasing Scott until X-Men #8 (after CC left the book) so I don't think we'll see that happening here.

[Prodigy55]

He never answered my question about Emma stealing Scott away.

[Agent_Torpor]

He never answered my question about Emma stealing Scott away.

One question per for Master Claremont, sir. Move along.

[Hi-Fi]

You have to admit the team shown in the previews thus far is pretty much the best team ever.
Agreed, though I hope Iceman, Psylocke and Cannonball are included eventually. CC has the power here to create the most interesting and consistent team ever. Let's hope he does just that.

[Dagger]

Killing X-Men... inserting Nick Fury... moving forward with new dangerous villians that have nothing to do with continuity...
Seems like it's the same old Claremont from X-Treme, New Exiles...
Not sure about how much I'll like this.

It doesn't seem like X-Men in 90's was heading in this direction.
I'd rather see a more natural organic story telling process - fed from X-Men 1-3 90's plots... not a... let's see how far away I can take this in 2 issues.

Seems like CC without editorial guidance could be a disaster.
Yeah, but he couldn't use the same characters back then, becuase they were tied to other teams at the time.

I wonder if he was going to resurrect Shaw after Shinobi killed him in X-Factor? And I wonder if he's still going to use the Upstarts? I'd like to see where he'd go with them...or Bishop for that matter.

[Babylon23]

"Emma’s still very much the White Queen and in no way even a nascent hero."

That's all I needed to hear. Evil Emma is awesome. Hero Emma...not so much.

Love Grummet's art too. Plus it's great to see Wolverine still in the tan costume and not the yellow monstrosity.

[That JonoGuy]

I am sold on the art alone.

[Excelsior]

Great Stuff! Thanks CBR!!


Mister Claremont I hope you will join these boards more often.

[Webslinger86]

Yeah I thought so too. Although didn't the 90s have Betsy chasing after Scott?

Oh I forgot to mention Evil Emma will be refreshing.

Ah yes, I can agree on that. Yay for the 90's making a comeback, showing us why Emma is a backstabbing coward who deserves to lose. I hold no grudge against her in Generation X, but seriously I don't want her in the X-Men. Jean + Scott is good. Although, I always wanted Logan to get the hot rehead :cool:

[Babylon23]

It doesn't seem like X-Men in 90's was heading in this direction.
I'd rather see a more natural organic story telling process - fed from X-Men 1-3 90's plots... not a... let's see how far away I can take this in 2 issues.

From what I've read, it seems like a pretty natural progression from X-Men #3. The mutants have all gathered in the wake of Magneto's death. Fury is there because the government is scared after what Magneto did.

It seems a lot more of a natural progression than what we got in X-Men #4 back in 1991.

[Joe Franklin]

I am sold on the art alone.

Same here.

Grummett is channeling Jim Lee for this project. The inker needs to take a lesson from Scott Williams on how to ink Wolverines body hair though.

[Agent_Torpor]

I like Tom Grum. He drew a bitchin' Rogue for New Exiles (until she unexplicably traded in the red thigh high boots for a asian-oriented hostess-at-PF-Changs uniform)

[eggie]

You have to admit the team shown in the previews thus far is pretty much the best team ever.

Quoted for truth! Scott, Logan, Jean, Gambit, Rogue,Storm, Kurt and Kitty....holy crap :eek: That is like an X-Men dream team (just add Psylocke and Beast and it would be perfection)!!

[Elayis]

Wow. Claremont actually succeeded in saying less than Quesada! Congratulations!!

That interview basically only said "wait and see." So what was the point besides showing off some art?

So Claremont's plan is to ignore everything that happened after his 3 issues, even stuff in other books? What about characters that were created after his run? What about origins revealed after his run? This really doesn't sound very good, but I'll wait until the actual issue is out. Hopefully this will be the opposite of Loeb (in that you don't have to wait for his issues to know they'll suck, whereas Claremont's might actually be good).

And I thought it was funny that CBR said that no one can go back and change stuff, until now with X-Men Forever, and that it will start exactly where CC ended. Except...no Jim Lee. The missing ingredient that would've made this book a must read for me is now a barely noticeable curiosity. What his book needed was someone that really matched Lee's style, and a colorist to mimic the 90s style coloring. All of these bright, shiny colors are real throwing this book off.

[darknessatnoon]

Wow. Claremont actually succeeded in saying less than Quesada! Congratulations!!

That interview basically only said "wait and see." So what was the point besides showing off some art?

So Claremont's plan is to ignore everything that happened after his 3 issues, even stuff in other books? What about characters that were created after his run? What about origins revealed after his run? This really doesn't sound very good, but I'll wait until the actual issue is out. Hopefully this will be the opposite of Loeb (in that you don't have to wait for his issues to know they'll suck, whereas Claremont's might actually be good).

Why would he write about characters created after his run, especially if they were created by someone else? They obviously don't fit his original vision of the X-Men. I don't see that you have grounds for your complaint.

[Fatguy]

Man, looking at classic Rogue here, it REALLY makes me realize how much I miss the Rogue from my youth. Before she turned into a My Chemical Romance song.

[Joe Franklin]

What his book needed was someone that really matched Lee's style, and a colorist to mimic the 90s style coloring. All of these bright, shiny colors are real throwing this book off.

What current Marvel artist is a Jim Lee clone?

Answer, none of them.

And Jim Lee works for his Wildstorm publisher DC Comics, so he's not available.

[kk1]

Nice. Kurt and Kitty back, sweet. Betsy back in the UK, good. Evil Emma,nice. I see he also mentioned the New Mutants ( and Hellions) and not X-force, awesome. No changes or characters from after he left, cool.

OK someone start a deadpool on who will die, I got Jean. :wink:

[Elayis]

What current Marvel artist is a Jim Lee clone?

Answer, none of them.

And Jim Lee works for his Wildstorm publisher DC Comics, so he's not available.

I think that Marc Silvestri would've been the best choice for artist that Marvel currently has. I also think that David Finch would've been a good choice, before he did Ultimatum.

[Joe Franklin]

OK someone start a deadpool on who will die, I got Jean. :wink:

According to Grummett's X-Men Forever costume renovations, she lives.:wink:

http://images.wizarduniverse.com/WizardUniverse/NYCC-2009/XMenNYCC/xmen1.jpg

[kk1]

Question: Why would Kitty need to save Jean? Has she lost the ability to fly at this point? The art wasn't clear, I don't know if she got hit in the head.

She grabbed and phased her and Logan through the X-jet, while Kurt teleported Cyclops and Gambit.

I have a question, why didn't anyone ask why Sabertooth is on the cover?

[DeadXMan]

Nice. Kurt and Kitty back, sweet. Betsy back in the UK, good. Evil Emma,nice. I see he also mentioned the New Mutants ( and Hellions) and not X-force, awesome. No changes or characters from after he left, cool.

OK someone start a deadpool on who will die, I got Jean. :wink:

Since he originally didn't want to kill her, or have her brought back, I'm going with no.

My money is on Logan. so he can do his Dark Wolverine Saga.

[Joe Franklin]

I think that Marc Silvestri would've been the best choice for artist that Marvel currently has. I also think that David Finch would've been a good choice, before he did Ultimatum.

Silvestri does not work for Marvel, he runs Top Cow. Silvestri signed a deal with Marvel a few years back to draw a few one shots for Marvel, so that he could use Marvel characters in some of his Top Cow comics one shots.

[kk1]

According to Grummett's X-Men Forever costume renovations, she lives.:wink:
To issue 2 or 3, I'll take her through issue 12. :smile:

And what is this guy doing cutting Rogue's and Kitty's hair ugghh

[Elayis]

For me, Grummett looks too much like Raney; everyone looks like they're kids. And that first page, Wolverine's legs are way too small. A small quibble, I know, but all the same, it's hard to like an artist that doesn't do anatomy well).

[Joe Franklin]

For me, Grummett looks too much like Raney; everyone looks like they're kids. And that first page, Wolverine's legs are way too small.


I agree with you that Grummett is not Jim Lee, but nobody is.

Marvel does not have a current regular artist they employ that is even close to Jim Lee's style. Grummett is as close as anybody Marvel has to Jim Lee, and he's far off.

No need for you to complain about the artist not being like Jim Lee, because none of them are.

[chastmastr]

Chris answered my question! Without an answer per se, but ... :redface: :cool:

[peopleofpaper]

So are the issues going to flash forward a bunch of years? Was this before Betsy was turned Asian? That'd be cool, I can't wait until he gives her a cameo. I want to see him do a British Betsy and see how he draws her. I don't like the purple and red Phoenix costume.

Overall though I think this looks really good. I like the old looking art compared to what UXM looks like now. I think I'm going to subscribe. :biggrin:

[Trey]

Well there really wasn't a whole lot of information given, which kind of sucks :frown:

I like the art, but I'm not feeling the story. Jean/Scott/Logan again? Please no, it's tres cliche now. Just let Jean and Scott be happy like they were meant to be.

Classic Rogue is a good thing though.

And LOL at the Sage question

What story? Did you sneak into the X-offices or Claremont's home to read the story?

Great art by Grummett and team right there, so cool.

[kk1]

Since he originally didn't want to kill her, or have her brought back, I'm going with no.

My money is on Logan. so he can do his Dark Wolverine Saga.

So does that mean he wants her dead or alive?


Really not liking the art but whatever I'll live with it. So I guess Fabian Cortez ditched his outfit, and had to look up his power- boosts a mutants power until its out of control. Well that explains Cyclops not shutting his eyes.

[Aguja]

What story? Did you sneak into the X-offices or Claremont's home to read the story?

Great art by Grummett and team right there, so cool.

Preview pages with dialogue came out a while ago. And those panels hinting at Jean/Scott/Logan redux are pretty self explanatory. Don't get me wrong I'm still somewhat interested in this title, but there are elements of it I'm not thrilled with. But I'm taking a wait and see approach.

I hope he uses Warren more. I need an Angel fix and I refuse to read X-Force.

[Excelsior]

According to Grummett's X-Men Forever costume renovations, she lives.:wink:

http://images.wizarduniverse.com/WizardUniverse/NYCC-2009/XMenNYCC/xmen1.jpg


Two Comments.

Gambit's new look is hot to Def!

An Emma free X-team = YAY!

Now if we can get some hellfire Sage, james howlett free wolverine, and more Sabes---it would make me a happy camper.

ok thats 3 comments.

[Elayis]

Like I said, I think Marvel should've used a different colorist. I think all of my qualms about Grummett would evaporate if they used a 90s style coloring pallet. I also think that if they truly wanted to retain that old-school X_Men vibe, that they should've stayed away from modern technological advancements, and done all of it by hand. That means no effects or anything (although, I admit, the lettering would still be done on a computer). I mention this because I noticed on the first cover, the artist blurred Rogue so it looks like she's in motion, but it only looks like she's phasing like Kitty. And the slashes in the background are very modern (manga is modern, which is where that comes from).

I also feel that doing a series like this is a bad move on Marvel's part. It's like admitting that they went the wrong direction with their X-Men line after Claremont left, and that none of the current X-Books are relevant or good anymore.

And people like you, Excelsior, prove my point that this was written for old-time fans, and that that's all it will appeal to. I just don't see this lasting longer than 16 issue. There's nothing here for fans that didn't like Claremont's run, or who weren't actually reading it when it was originally published.

[kk1]

So are the issues going to flash forward a bunch of years? Was this before Betsy was turned Asian? :

No it takes place in 2009 but picks up where it left off in X-men #3 in the early 90's (Marvel comics always take place in the present ) and no.

[Joe Franklin]

I need an Angel fix and I refuse to read X-Force.

I know you hate X-Force, but you are missing out on the best X-Book being published right now.

I like that you are sticking to your guns though.

[peopleofpaper]

An Emma free X-team = YAY!


i agree. i don't mind her but sometimes it's baffling that she's the HBIC for all things X these days. i wonder if CC hates her or who he'd want to take her place in the current Uncanny run?

No it takes place in 2009 but picks up where it left off in X-men #3 in the early 90's (Marvel comics always take place in the present ) and no.

aw shucks. thanks for the info anyways.

[Elayis]

I know you hate X-Force, but you are missing out on the best X-Book being published right now.

I like that you are sticking to your guns though.

X-Force is like comics were back in the 90s: dumb, action fests. And if it really is the best X-Book, than I guess that just goes to show what a sorry shape the X-Books are in at the moment.

[Elayis]

No it takes place in 2009 but picks up where it left off in X-men #3 in the early 90's (Marvel comics always take place in the present ) and no.

How does this take place in 2009? Don't the events from the 90's take place about 2-4 years before present continuity?

[Fatguy]

X-Force is like comics were back in the 90s: dumb, action fests. And if it really is the best X-Book, than I guess that just goes to show what a sorry shape the X-Books are in at the moment.

Have you even read it? Do you actually think almost everybody loves it because it's a "Dumb action fest"? Sure, it has action and violence, but the story structure is actually very old school, without the dated conventions that CC still clings to. Subplots galore and interesting characterization for everybody. Except maybe Wolfsbane.

[That JonoGuy]

How does this take place in 2009? Don't the events from the 90's take place about 2-4 years before present continuity?

We are to believe the events of X-Men 1-3 are occurring in 2009.

[summers88]

I'm a HUGE fan of CC's original run on the X-men. At first I was very excited to hear about this title. I've always wondered what would have happened if he stayed on the book?

Would we see British Betsy again?
Would Longshot and Dazzler make their way back on the team?
Would the X-men have more connections with Excalibur and the other teams?

There were a lot of dangling threads when he left and I'm sure in time, they would have been resolved.

However, I'm a bit nervous now due to this "big change" that happens in issue 1. Now that this title is "out of continuity" he can do whatever he pleases. Will he get crazy with the characters and do drastic things? Or will he bust out his old notebook with the stories he wanted to tell and continue on with? (which is what I'm hoping for)

I'm really hoping for a seamless jump from X-men #3 to X-men Forever. I don't want to read #3 and then BAM everything changes and he gets to start where he wants.

I'M SO NERVOUS! I CAN"T WAIT TO READ IT!!

[Dagger]

She grabbed and phased her and Logan through the X-jet, while Kurt teleported Cyclops and Gambit.

I have a question, why didn't anyone ask why Sabertooth is on the cover?

Yeah, but it still doesn't explain why she was knocked out. They were all ho hum BAM! She gets phased out by kitty.

[RoguishGurl]

*looks around for Hi-Fi*

I hope Rogue and Gambit are together. And even if they are not, Rogue looks great.

[Babylon23]

However, I'm a bit nervous now due to this "big change" that happens in issue 1.

The X-Men was in a pretty constant state of flux during the late 80's so I'm not all that worried. We had the mutant massacre leading to a more extremist x-team, then the apparent 'death' of the team and the Australian period, followed by half the team disappearing into the siege perilous and being reborn, then all the Muir Isle stuff. Really, the team had only barely settled into some sort of structure with X-Men 1-3. 'Big changes' were pretty commonplace in the book back then.

[Fat Cobra]

Is that Jean and Wolverin I see kissing? Ugh.. I think I'll stay far away from this.

[Dagger]

According to Grummett's X-Men Forever costume renovations, she lives.:wink:

http://images.wizarduniverse.com/WizardUniverse/NYCC-2009/XMenNYCC/xmen1.jpg
Ugh. I don't like the Toad/Sabretooth costume. Kitty looks like NEXiles Kitty. Rogue's hair is a hot mess. Gambit doesn't look good in the armani. I do love Storm and Jean, tho.

[Fatguy]

Ugh. I don't like the Toad/Sabretooth costume. Kitty looks like NEXiles Kitty. Rogue's hair is a hot mess. Gambit doesn't look good in the armani. I do love Storm and Jean, tho.

Storm and Nightcrawler look great. Everybody else....not so great.

[Dagger]

Storm and Nightcrawler look great. Everybody else....not so great.
I like Jean, too. And GAWD! How I hate Beast. Get rid of him. They should get Portacio to draw this book.

[david r]

For now, the focus of the series is on the presentation of new and increasingly more dangerous adversaries – which may well force the X-Men, and Hellfire Club (and by extension the New Mutants and Hellions) to form an alliance simply for their own survival. And won’t that be fun?

Yup, Claremont is bringing back his Hellfire Club arc. It's only been twenty years in the making but it's finally going to happen. I cannot wait to see where the Hellions plot was headed. :smile:

[Babylon23]

Neither Portacio nor Silvestri would be able to get the book out in a timely fashion. Plus, the cost of hiring these guys is probably more than it's worth. Unless X-Men Forever somehow tops the sales I doubt they'll place any top tier artist on the book.

Personally, I like Grummet's work so I have no problem with him on the book at all.

[Elayis]

Have you even read it? Do you actually think almost everybody loves it because it's a "Dumb action fest"? Sure, it has action and violence, but the story structure is actually very old school, without the dated conventions that CC still clings to. Subplots galore and interesting characterization for everybody. Except maybe Wolfsbane.

I've read a few issues here and there. I read the first issue for me, but it didn't grab me so I didn't start picking it up. But I can say since I'm generally not a fan of Yost and Kyle's work (don't like their movies) that I wouldn't like X-Force. I was getting Messiah War, but it didn't feel like the epic event it should've been (more like a revival of old 90s concepts that don't work), so I dropped it after 2 issues.

[Fatguy]

I cannot wait to see where the Hellions plot was headed. :smile:

Well, or where he would take it now. I have a feeling this is a "Where he was headed" in the same way that the new Star Wars movies were George Lucas' original vision.

[david r]

The 10 pages they showed.....was that an homage to UXM #94-95? When the team get blasted out of the sky and nearly fall to their deaths by Count Nefaria? It makes sense since it was Claremont's first X-story ever.

But damn, Wolverine and Nightcrawler on the same team together! I'm SOLD!! :smile:

[david r]

Well, or where he would take it now. I have a feeling this is a "Where he was headed" in the same way that the new Star Wars movies were George Lucas' original vision.

Well, those Star Wars movies were prequels. They didn't pick up after Return of the Jedi. Whereas this book picks up immediately after a classic run by Claremont. I suspect it'll be 60% new ideas. 40% older ideas. (However those older ideas were FREAKING INCREDIBLE!)

[Babylon23]

Claremont's already acknowledged in prior interviews that this new series won't just be about him digging out his old plots. He said that some elements will creep in but other new ideas will also be there.

Personally, I'm still hoping we'll see the Dark Wolverine story. Maybe the Jean/Logan scenes here are a set up for Wolvie's eventual death and resurrection.

[Falconen]

I'm in. Between this and the New Mutants revival, it's like going back in time. Astonishing and Uncanny have been dropped from my future pull list and these 2 will take their places, for at least the next few months. I have been wanting to dump them, and this have finally given me an excuse to move forward. Not that it would have mattered in the case of Astonishing, since it never seems to come out with any consistancy.

[NickFury90]

Nice artwork, and its cool seeing the X-men in those outfits I grew up with. Too bad its gonna be covered in heavy-handed narration and excessive dialog :frown:

[Wind Rider]

An Emma free X-team = YAY!



Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy!! I prefer White Queen myself, so I'll be waiting to see where the Hellfire Club storyline goes.



I hope Rogue and Gambit are together. And even if they are not, Rogue looks great.

I second this. I loved Rogue and Gambit together during this time.

Let me also add.....

My girl Storm has to ditch the shoulder pads, but please don't let her wear that thing Grummett has her in on that cover. It's just a rehash of what she's wearing now.

I cannot wait to read this! I absolutely loved the X-Men during this time. There were so many little stories going on and CC is already giving it to us. I don't mind his soap opera, narrative style, but I do hope the pace is picked up. Wanting to take 5+ years to build a plot just isn't realistic anymore. That's the only thing that has me concerned so far.... at least it will be bi-monthly.

[kk1]

Storm and Nightcrawler look great. Everybody else....not so great.


Really? I think Nightcrawler has one of those iconic costumes like Spider-man, it's perfect don't change it.

[Babylon23]

I really hope Rogue and Gambit aren't together. That relationship ruined Rogue IMO.

If they are together, at least wind down the angst a little.

[Slant]

Gambit's probably going to end up as Sinister Jr. or something anyway.

[Fatguy]

Really? I think Nightcrawler has one of those iconic costumes like Spider-man, it's perfect don't change it.

lol yeah, I definitely wouldnt call Nightcrawler's costume "iconic". Besides, the costume is VERY similar to his classic. I just like the way Grummet draws him in general. I think maybe Kurt is one of those easy to make look cool characters. I even like Land's Nightcrawler.

[eurazn]

I really hope Rogue and Gambit aren't together. That relationship ruined Rogue IMO.

If they are together, at least wind down the angst a little.

To be fair, it ruined Gambit, too. However, considering it was a pairing CC set up himself, I think he'll continue it.

[Elegance Liberty]

Jean/Logan teases = me very happy.

Buwahahahaha.

[Babylon23]

To be fair, it ruined Gambit, too. However, considering it was pairing CC set up himself, I think he'll continue it.

Well, he certainly laid the foundations, but the relationship didn't get really bad until CC left. Both characters hadn't really lost it until around 93 or 94.

Gambit was still a fairly fresh and new character at the end of X-Men 3, so CC can really take these two in any direction he likes. I'm hoping Gambit is completely different to the way he was developed post-Claremont.

[Leogam]

Yeah I thought so too. Although didn't the 90s have Betsy chasing after Scott?

Oh I forgot to mention Evil Emma will be refreshing.

that was after issue 3, Claremont is shipping Betsy to the UK to Brian

[Disco Jess Minge]

I agree with you that Grummett is not Jim Lee, but nobody is.

Marvel does not have a current regular artist they employ that is even close to Jim Lee's style. Grummett is as close as anybody Marvel has to Jim Lee, and he's far off.

No need for you to complain about the artist not being like Jim Lee, because none of them are.

Sean Chen. He did ok with Claremont's crappy scripting in the End minis.

[steve2275]

fine ill get this
but there better be some COLOSSUS soon :tongue:

[Blade X]

How does this take place in 2009? Don't the events from the 90's take place about 2-4 years before present continuity?

With the exception of story's set in specific historical periods in the past, all Marvel and DC superhero stories take place in the present.

[Shaid O Gray]

So should I deduce that Rogue loses her Ms Marvel powers at the end of issue 1?? Damn! One of the things I was looking forward to was her with that powerset!

Ya know for someone who wants to go back to 'those days' CC is certainly changing things quickly. Betsy gone, Kitty and Kurt back in, apparently powert changes, then there's Wolverine.......

Btw, I am curious what makes Cortez think he can take on the whole team of X-Men?? Never found his power all that credible as a threat. And I certainly don't know how he can knock Rogue aside like a rag doll. He has no superstrength.

[Joe Franklin]

Sean Chen. He did ok with Claremont's crappy scripting in the End minis.

Chen is not even close. Grummett is closer. And if Chen were to draw it, I would drop it. I was so glad when he went to DC, but he only stayed for a year.:frown:

[myspidernadsaretingling]

I will admit this series sounded tedious and Claremont is more miss than hit these days but that scan of Logan and Jean alone has guaranteed marvel my money for 12 issues.

F@*K you Cyclops. :evilangry:

I'm just hypothesizing but how awesome would it be if Rachel was Logan and Jean's daughter in this timeline.

I cannot Ff'en wait!!!!!:biggrin:

[DeadXMan]

those ten pages are better then the last ten issues of uncanny.

the art is so damn good. you can fallow the story with out the duologue.

June can't come soon enouth:frown:

[DeniseXfrost]

I simply must know about Megan Summers.

[nikbackm]

I simply must know about Megan Summers.

Here you go:
http://www.google.com/search?&q=megan%20summers%20genext&sourceid=firefox

[creaky]

Ahh, so the kissing scene is just in Jean's dirty little head. I thought there was something wrong with Logan's boyband pants!

Also, suddenly Gambit/Nightcrawler seems very appealing to me. Is this wrong?

[Elayis]

Claremont's already acknowledged in prior interviews that this new series won't just be about him digging out his old plots. He said that some elements will creep in but other new ideas will also be there.

Personally, I'm still hoping we'll see the Dark Wolverine story. Maybe the Jean/Logan scenes here are a set up for Wolvie's eventual death and resurrection.

So what Dark Wolverine are you talking about? Are you talking about Daken? About the main title transitioning into Dark Wolverine for Dark Reign, in preparation for being Daken's own ongoing, or a completely different thing?

[creaky]

So what Dark Wolverine are you talking about? Are you talking about Daken? About the main title transitioning into Dark Wolverine for Dark Reign, in preparation for being Daken's own ongoing, or a completely different thing?

No, this is another thing - a storyline Claremont had intended, but never got to write.

[darknessatnoon]

I simply must know about Megan Summers.

Sad that she doesn't have diamond powers.

[Elayis]

No, this is another thing - a storyline Claremont had intended, but never got to write.

Does anyone have any idea of what it was going to be? Was it just Wolverine being brainwashed, like in Enemy of the State?

[creaky]

Does anyone have any idea of what it was going to be? Was it just Wolverine being brainwashed, like in Enemy of the State?

Something like that, yes. Claremont talked about it somewhere at some point, but I can't find where.

[Zombienorthstar]

I read Claremont's series of Fantastic Four over the weekend and remembered how he makes the characters think really inane exposition aloud all the time. Just kills any sort of momentum for me.

I think this whole project is ridiculous, it all seems a little- masturbatory if you ask me. I don't understand why Claremont would even want to do it, it makes him look a bit petulant, even though I assume (as he seems like a nice man) that's not his attitude.

[The Lucky One]

Does anyone have any idea of what it was going to be? Was it just Wolverine being brainwashed, like in Enemy of the State?

In a lot of ways, yes- to the point where Mark Millar took some flak when EotS came out by fans who accused him of ripping off Claremont's intended story, which he had spoken about to fans in the years prior. Millar has stated that he never knew about Claremont's plan, and there's no reason to disbelieve him, but the stories do have a lot in common.

Basically, Claremont's plan was that Lady Deathstrike rips out Wolverine's heart, killing him. He's dead for a year, only to be resurrected by the Hand and brainwashed into their top assassin. The X-Men want to save him, but how will they do that if they can't get close to him without him attacking them? There are a lot of ideas that supposedly were going to eventually play into the story -- Jean infiltrates the Hand to try to save Wolverine, Colossus has a huge fight with Logan where he rips out Wolverine's claws at the roots, etc. -- but now that Enemy of the State has been published, I don't know that Claremont will be revisiting that abandoned plotline. Guess we'll see.

-D

[Grapeweasel]

I love the '80's as much as anyone.

But I seriously think Claremont is turning into the comic version of Norma Desmond.

I'm still big. It's the COMICS that got small......

I'm ready for my closeup, Mister Quesada.....

[Laminator_X]

I'm curious to see whether this is the second coming of the X-Men of my youth or a shameless cocktail of authorial self-indugence and fanservice to 35-40 year olds. Just the same, I'll buy a book with an X on the cover for the first time in over ten years to find out.

[Roquefort Raider]

I think this whole project is ridiculous, it all seems a little- masturbatory if you ask me. I don't understand why Claremont would even want to do it, it makes him look a bit petulant, even though I assume (as he seems like a nice man) that's not his attitude.

I think it's simply a case of "why not?" on the part of Marvel.

Chris Claremont did leave the series just as it was supposed to undergo a great revival (it was touted as "glory days" in solicitations at the time), and there are probably enough fans of the 90s X-Men to justify testing the market if Chris is willing to take a go at it.

Worst case scenario, this experiment peters out after a year or so and simply joins other "alternate timeline books" in the attic.

In the meatime, I'm happy to see Wolverine back in his brown costume. The yellow ones are just hideous.

[End of Time]

The more I read about X-men forever, the more it looks like its going to be fun.

I wasn't a fan of New Exiles, but this looks like it's going to be fun. Old-school fun, with a Rogue I still recognize. Jean Grey, alive and kicking, fun dopey costumes that used to be extremely cool back then. People flying around using their powers...

God I'm having a real nostalgia-kick.

[NewMutant]

The more I read about X-men forever, the more it looks like its going to be fun.

I wasn't a fan of New Exiles, but this looks like it's going to be fun. Old-school fun, with a Rogue I still recognize. Jean Grey, alive and kicking, fun dopey costumes that used to be extremely cool back then. People flying around using their powers...

God I'm having a real nostalgia-kick.

I agree. The more I see more interested I am for this. However, I am worried that they won't be in their 90s uniforms and 90s team setting after the first arc. The other cover we seen has everyone in different costumes. And it just seems odd for the team to revamp 3 issues after they just did.

[Optic Rage!]

Ahhhhhhhhhh, Can't wait.

[AcesX1X]

i'm very excited to see why kitty cuts all her hair off.

and....considering this is her celebration week, i wonder where rachel is??!?!

maybe her and jean will finally have that talk.

[NewMutant]

maybe her and jean will finally have that talk.

About the birds and the bees?

[AcesX1X]

About the birds and the bees?

well, LOL i think rachel may already have some idea about that. this all takes place after days of future present, so rachel has already gotten carnal with franklin richards.

i was specifically talking about whether or not jean is still disgusted by the sight of her. jean seemed to be a little more accepting of rachel before she got sucked into the time stream and thrown into the askani future, but that was long after the events of x-men 1 and 2.

[Hypestyle]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=21090

ah..

I wonder will Bobby/Iceman end up being a 5th (6th, 7th, 8th, 9th) wheel in this series, the author never seemed to be that interested in him..

I'm glad to see Nightcrawler and Shadowcat back, I wonder how this is explained with them leaving Excalibur.. I forget that Kurt/Kitty scarcely interacted with the Gambit-era team.. (and i hope that nightcrawler will step up into a role of leadership like he did in Excalibur)

Storm needs to still lead her own team.. hmm... I wonder will the author resurrect the romance with Forge.. I suspect that will enamor those who hate the Storm/Panther marriage..

...Say-- I guess Bishop didn't show up yet.. I wonder if he ever will.. Are those first couple of issues from the Byrne/Portacio arc still considered canon?

Archangel- at least he has his apocalypse-era powers.. they can just give him his regular skintone back, hopefully..

This is a great opportunity for Firestar to be brought into the series..

I'd like to see Spider-Man get involved with the team..

[kk1]

I'm curious to see whether this is the second coming of the X-Men of my youth or a shameless cocktail of authorial self-indugence and fanservice to 35-40 year olds. Just the same, I'll buy a book with an X on the cover for the first time in over ten years to find out.

Me too, this is either going to be Empire Strikes Back or Episode I.

[Majinoaw]

Not sure how I feel about this. On one hand Claremont's stuff is classic. He could take the craziest idea and make it work for me. But on the other hand I'm so use to a different flow of storytelling now, I might not be able to get back into Claremont's storyline groove. It's almost like listening to ol skool rap. I loved it back then, and I can listen to it now, but if say... Chuck D or Kool Moe Dee came out and did something now... it wouldn't wash with me.

[kk1]

...Say-- I guess Bishop didn't show up yet.. I wonder if he ever will.. Are those first couple of issues from the Byrne/Portacio arc still considered canon?

A..


Hopefully not.

[The Lucky One]

...Say-- I guess Bishop didn't show up yet.. I wonder if he ever will.. Are those first couple of issues from the Byrne/Portacio arc still considered canon?

My guess is no -- in that interview Claremont mentioned that Emma Frost is still a villain, not even close to reforming, and I think it said something about the Hellions too. If the Bishop arc had taken place already, Emma would be in a coma and most of the Hellions dead.

-D

[NewMutant]

My guess is no -- in that interview Claremont mentioned that Emma Frost is still a villain, not even close to reforming, and I think it said something about the Hellions too. If the Bishop arc had taken place already, Emma would be in a coma and most of the Hellions dead.

-D

No he hasn't. In the Mutant Genesis TPB, which has the issues that follow 1-3. It shows all of the X-Men, blue and gold, meeting. The gold team is team dressed in the formal clothes for the Hellfire club event which the Hellions are killed, Emma is put into a coma, and Bishops arrival. And I remember there was an editors note say "Yep, all this takes place before Uncanny 281!"

[Majinoaw]

My guess is no -- in that interview Claremont mentioned that Emma Frost is still a villain, not even close to reforming, and I think it said something about the Hellions too. If the Bishop arc had taken place already, Emma would be in a coma and most of the Hellions dead.

-D

X-men 1-3 takes place before 281 even though they were published around the same time.. Bishop appeared at the end of 282.

[AcesX1X]

my real concern is why does CC keep throwing the fans emma frost's name whenever someone asks him about sage? this is the second time he's given that emma frost response to basically the same question about tessa.

[darknessatnoon]

To quote Novaya's insightful analysis of CC's response

Conclusion: CC sure as shit ain't writing no Dazzler!

I think the same can safely be said of Bishop.

[lockerogue]

my real concern is why does CC keep throwing the fans emma frost's name whenever someone asks him about sage? this is the second time he's given that emma frost response to basically the same question about tessa.

I believe he is going to kill Emma Frost in order have Sage become the White Queen. She will eventually leave this position and tell Shaw to fuck himself in binary then join the X-Men.

[blehbeh]

Emma Frost wasn't exactly "far" from reforming in Uncanny X-Men 281, as Claremont and others keep saying. After that arc she was left in a coma, stayed in the coma for a good 3 years real-time, and when she woke up she was reformed and started teaching Gen X.

The coma, which obviously won't happen, most likely had a lot to do with her reformation, but still. Hero Emma wasn't far off.

[Zombienorthstar]

The thing is, it's not Claremont's plotting which is a problem, it's the quality. His dialogue is devoid of any humour and realism. It's inane.

[NewMutant]

Emma Frost wasn't exactly "far" from reforming in Uncanny X-Men 281, as Claremont and others keep saying. After that arc she was left in a coma, stayed in the coma for a good 3 years real-time, and when she woke up she was reformed and started teaching Gen X.

The coma, which obviously won't happen, most likely had a lot to do with her reformation, but still. Hero Emma wasn't far off.

True... this is really her last act as a villian, and its turning to the X-Men for help. Which was almost 20 years ago, yet people still don't accept her as a hero.

[Aguja]

Well I blame writers for constantly dipping into the 'is she evil?' well constantly as a gimmick. It's still going on now.

[MartinRedmond]

The coma, which obviously won't happen, most likely had a lot to do with her reformation, but still. Hero Emma wasn't far off.

Yes, just like that abusive girlfriend (or boyfriend) is gonna change anyday now if you give her enough love and stop being so clumsy.

[blehbeh]

Yes, just like that abusive girlfriend (or boyfriend) is gonna change anyday now if you give her enough love and stop being so clumsy.

So you're saying an experience like being disembodied on the astral plane for a several months with nothing to do but think, couldn't possibly cause someone to reflect on their life/ways and change them?

[NewMutant]

Yes, just like that abusive girlfriend (or boyfriend) is gonna change anyday now if you give her enough love and stop being so clumsy.

Hank Pym... is that you?

[alf_to_the_rescue]

well, LOL i think rachel may already have some idea about that. this all takes place after days of future present, so rachel has already gotten carnal with franklin richards.

i was specifically talking about whether or not jean is still disgusted by the sight of her. jean seemed to be a little more accepting of rachel before she got sucked into the time stream and thrown into the askani future, but that was long after the events of x-men 1 and 2.

There is no Rachel in this timeline, as he's using his own self imposed rule that there is only one Rachel in the multiverse

From Comixfan
Dear Daithi --

Doesn't work. Phoenix (in your context) = Rachel and Rachel currently is in (I believe) one of the 616 X-teams (the one with Havok in Shi'ar Space, that isn't "Uncanny"?). And as far as *my* Rachel is concerned, there can be only one -- which means that for as long as she's active in / claimed by the 616 continuity, she's unavailable for *Forever.* Which is not to my taste, but there you go. Writer hoisted on his own creative petard.

Cordially,

Chris Claremont

[AcesX1X]

but that doesn't make any sense. this is the real x-men right?

[nikbackm]

but that doesn't make any sense. this is the real x-men right?

No, it's a separate what-if universe. It has its own designated number already.

[AcesX1X]

i don't want to read fanfiction. i was under the impression that this was the real x-men.

[NewMutant]

i don't want to read fanfiction. i was under the impression that this was the real x-men.

Its not fanfiction, its his own universe. But Claremont believe that there is only one rachel in all the universes.

[MNM]

Art looks nice, but the day I pay money to read Claremont try and re live his glory days and tell us "how it should be" etc.. will be a cold day in hell.

[Majinoaw]

Art looks nice, but the day I pay money to read Claremont try and re live his glory days and tell us "how it should be" etc.. will be a cold day in hell.

Why the animosity? What has Claremont done to upset you.

[pariah-1972]

I don't really know what the point of this book really is besides giving Claremont something to do.

WAs anyone really clamoring for a book that he left something like 18 years ago?

Did he keep all the notes of what he was planning to do back then? i doubt he had it all that far plotted out so for all we know he's making this all up and going "oh yes this is what i have planned"


Welcome to irrelevancy mr Claremont we hope you have a nice stay.

[Majinoaw]

I don't really know what the point of this book really is besides giving Claremont something to do.

WAs anyone really clamoring for a book that he left something like 18 years ago?

Did he keep all the notes of what he was planning to do back then? i doubt he had it all that far plotted out so for all we know he's making this all up and going "oh yes this is what i have planned"


Welcome to irrelevancy mr Claremont we hope you have a nice stay.

Why the anger toward Claremont? I don't understand.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Its not fanfiction, its his own universe. But Claremont believe that there is only one rachel in all the universes.

That line alone just made my week.

Not its own universe. Or a an alternative/different/self-contained universe.

Oh no. HIS universe.

If anything, you *do* understand what Sir Claremont is all about, lol.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Why the anger toward Claremont? I don't understand.

This is one of your personas, right?

[nikbackm]

I don't really know what the point of this book really is besides giving Claremont something to do.

The point is to earn money as always. With all the hype I bet this book will sell pretty well, say about 50-80K after issue #3 at least.


WAs anyone really clamoring for a book that he left something like 18 years ago?


No one who wanted it probably thought it would ever happen.

[Aguja]

Well it is basically his own universe to play with. Since it was given its own designation. There are no other titles set in that universe. So who else will be telling stories in it other than Claremont?

[kk1]

Its not fanfiction, its his own universe. But Claremont believe that there is only one rachel in all the universes.


I still thought that this was "outside" the regular Marvel Universe, not an alternate Universe of it. I forget what exactly was Rachel doing around X-men #3?

[pariah-1972]

Why the anger toward Claremont? I don't understand.Maybe because he used to be such a great writer and now he just has all these tics and shuffled them around and he has stopped pushing himself as a creative person he is just being lazy and has sled into irrelevancy by his own fault.


I would much rather read him try something else besides another non canon x-men ":what if" piece of crap where he can completely indulge himself with a very small fanbase.

[NewMutant]

That line alone just made my week.

Not its own universe. Or a an alternative/different/self-contained universe.

Oh no. HIS universe.

If anything, you *do* understand what Sir Claremont is all about, lol.

hahaha. ill take that as a compliment i guess...

[Majinoaw]

This is one of your personas, right?

Nope. I want someone to tell me why there is so much anger toward him. Can you tell me. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I just want to know.

[alf_to_the_rescue]

I still thought that this was "outside" the regular Marvel Universe, not an alternate Universe of it. I forget what exactly was Rachel doing around X-men #3?

In the main reality she is in Exaclibur at that point, in his reality, she doesnt exist as she is in 616 at the minute.

[kk1]

I don't really know what the point of this book really is besides giving Claremont something to do.

WAs anyone really clamoring for a book that he left something like 18 years ago?

.

I always hoped they could do something like this.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

If the book didn't have a very obvious AGENDA, maybe someone could make a case against it being uber fanfic.

As it is, the book has two purposes:

1 - Tell Jim Shooter to f**k off.

2 - Tell every other x-writer from the past 18 years that they got it wrong and that his Highness would've done better.

Seriously, let's stop kidding ourselves, folks.

[NewMutant]

I still thought that this was "outside" the regular Marvel Universe, not an alternate Universe of it. I forget what exactly was Rachel doing around X-men #3?

Rachel was on Excalibur.

I'm not saying he can't use her. It can make sense if he wants to. But every world from one stop visits in Exiles to random past What If issues because another "version/world/universe" within the larger MU. And sense Claremont views there only being ONE Rachel within all of them he doesn't want to write her if someone else is.

[kk1]

Nope. I want someone to tell me why there is so much anger toward him. Can you tell me. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I just want to know.

I'm curious too...

[nikbackm]

If the book didn't have a very obvious AGENDA, maybe someone could make a case against it being uber fanfic.

As it is, the book has two purposes:

1 - Tell Jim Shooter to f**k off.

2 - Tell every other x-writer from the past 18 years that they got it wrong and that his Highness would've done better.

Seriously, let's stop kidding ourselves, folks.

I don't know if Marvel would care about the first one, but do you really think they want to undermine all their current X-titles?

Unless you're talking about Claremont's motivations only of course, but I assumed he was just in it to ensure his pension. I've gotten the impression here on this board that he's not that well off at the moment.

[Novaya Havoc]

I don't know if Marvel would care about the first one

Marvel celebrates the anniversary of Jim Shooter being fired.

Claremont hates Shooter. Ergo, he hates Dazzler.
Marvel hates Shooter, ergo they hate Dazzler.
Marvel hates Shooter so much that they give Claremont his own title where he can re-write Shooter in a form of epic revisionist history.

Glorianna!!11

[darknessatnoon]

I don't know if Marvel would care about the first one, but do you really think they want to undermine all their current X-titles?

Unless you're talking about Claremont's motivations only of course, but I assumed he was just in it to ensure his pension. I've gotten the impression here on this board that he's not that well off at the moment.

LOL

Because of Blade X?

Claremont is doing FINE, I'm sure.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I don't know if Marvel would care about the first one

Not saying they do. Still has to be taken into account if one wants to get the agenda of the book.

, but do you really think they want to undermine all their current X-titles?

Unless you're talking about Claremont's motivations only of course[/B][/I]

The agenda in Claremont's mind. Should've been clearer, I suppose. Marvel are obviously just humoring him.

but I assumed he was just in it to ensure his pension.
I've gotten the impression here on this board that he's not that well off at the moment.

Maybe. Still, there were less pretentious ways to go about it.

[pariah-1972]

I don't know if Marvel would care about the first one, but do you really think they want to undermine all their current X-titles?

Unless you're talking about Claremont's motivations only of course, but I assumed he was just in it to ensure his pension. I've gotten the impression here on this board that he's not that well off at the moment.Unless he blew all his money gambling or bad business deals he should be set for life hell considering how many times Dark Phoenix Saga has been reprinted he should be making lots of royalties friom that alone.


As far as money he should be up there with Frank Miller or Jim Lee.

[AcesX1X]

this is really absolutely upsetting to me. i was excited for this because i thought CC was writing this to correct the past decade or so of comic books. but, this isn't the case at all. basically, it's another exiles book except they're all stuck in one earth.

[Novaya Havoc]

LOL

Because of Blade X?

Claremont is doing FINE, I'm sure.

Jim Shooter (relevance!) said in an interview that the royalties he got CC from Marvel corporate allowed CC to buy his mother an airplane. And not, like, Wright Brothers shit. But like, jet turbo engine stuff.

Naturally, CC is hurting. When you can afford to purchase a relative a freaking jet airplane, you're in some Repo Man shit. In contrast, I got my mother some Subway coupons for Mother's Day.

[The Lucky One]

I don't really know what the point of this book really is besides giving Claremont something to do.

Does it really matter? It's not like there can only be so many X-books and this one is keeping another one from being published. I don't like Cable, so I don't read his comic, but I'd never argue that he shouldn't have one. If enough people want to read it, fine... doesn't impact me any. It's not like X-Men Forever will be crossing over with any other comics, meaning you'll never have to buy an issue, and it keeps a writer you seem not to like away from characters you'd rather not have in his hands. Isn't that win/win? :confused:

Unless someone was actually mean-spirited enough to not want the guy to get work at all, I don't see how a Claremont detractor could possibly care about this. Either you're in favor of it, or it doesn't affect you in the slightest.

-D

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Unless he blew all his money gambling or bad business deals he should be set for life hell considering how many times Dark Phoenix Saga has been reprinted he should be making lots of royalties friom that alone.

Well, he's had Chuck & Cyke in his 'Dead x-Pool' for like 18 years. I suppose that's a few grands...

[NewMutant]

Does it really matter? It's not like there can only be so many X-books and this one is keeping another one from being published. I don't like Cable, so I don't read his comic, but I'd never argue that he shouldn't have one. If enough people want to read it, fine... doesn't impact me any. It's not like X-Men Forever will be crossing over with any other comics, meaning you'll never have to buy an issue, and it keeps a writer you seem not to like away from characters you'd rather not have in his hands. Isn't that win/win? :confused:

Unless someone was actually mean-spirited enough to not want the guy to get work at all, I don't see how a Claremont detractor could possibly care about this. Either you're in favor of it, or it doesn't affect you in the slightest.

-D

quoted for truth

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Does it really matter?

No, not really.

The pretentious uber diva revisionist angle is still disgusting, though.

[Novaya Havoc]

Does it really matter? It's not like there can only be so many X-books and this one is keeping another one from being published. I don't like Cable, so I don't read his comic, but I'd never argue that he shouldn't have one. If enough people want to read it, fine... doesn't impact me any. It's not like X-Men Forever will be crossing over with any other comics, meaning you'll never have to buy an issue, and it keeps a writer you seem not to like away from characters you'd rather not have in his hands. Isn't that win/win? :confused:

Unless someone was actually mean-spirited enough to not want the guy to get work at all, I don't see how a Claremont detractor could possibly care about this. Either you're in favor of it, or it doesn't affect you in the slightest.

-D

The point is they can actually take a gamble and publish a book people might, in some capacity care about.

They waste time and money on Chris Claremont: FOREVER!!!, when, by this interview, he's clearly wounded on his handling on certain women: Dazzler, Psylocke, and Sage. So he'll go back to his Kitty/Jean/Storm defaults. Oh, the pleasure!

Marvel could invest in a different series. Claremont could invest in a different concept! Dazzler is in the wings. Shit, TLO, we could even get a Longshot mini, much as I would never read it. You can try something new.

I will say that after eviscerating Claremont online so badly, I have some sympathy for the man, especially compared to the garbage Matt Fraction produces. But this is not a simple case of "Don't like it? Don't buy it!" Marvel is wasting their money, and they're allowing to waste any talent Claremont might still have by re-positioning his works to something within his wheelhouse.

Make the man work for the money. The song, after all, is "He Works Hard for the Money!" Not, "OMG GRANDFATHERED IN!!!! FREEBIESSSSSS!"

I don't think the latter would qualify as a disco hit.

[pariah-1972]

Does it really matter? It's not like there can only be so many X-books and this one is keeping another one from being published. I don't like Cable, so I don't read his comic, but I'd never argue that he shouldn't have one. If enough people want to read it, fine... doesn't impact me any. It's not like X-Men Forever will be crossing over with any other comics, meaning you'll never have to buy an issue, and it keeps a writer you seem not to like away from characters you'd rather not have in his hands. Isn't that win/win? :confused:

Unless someone was actually mean-spirited enough to not want the guy to get work at all, I don't see how a Claremont detractor could possibly care about this. Either you're in favor of it, or it doesn't affect you in the slightest.

-DBecause i am a hardcore X-men fan and i have this need to want to read anything x-men related at least until i know it's safely turning out to be utter crap (Daniel Ways completely ireelevant Wolverine book)
And i just wish Claremont would stop spinning his wheels and do something new and challenge himself into of rehashing his pet themes and pet characters for another irrelevant X-men book.

[lockerogue]

The pretentious uber diva revisionist angle is still disgusting, though.

Sexist much?

[The Lucky One]

The point is they can actually take a gamble and publish a book people might, in some capacity care about.

They waste time and money on Chris Claremont: FOREVER!!!, when, by this interview, he's clearly wounded on his handling on certain women: Dazzler, Psylocke, and Sage. So he'll go back to his Kitty/Jean/Storm defaults. Oh, the pleasure!

Marvel could invest in a different series. Claremont could invest in a different concept! Dazzler is in the wings. Shit, TLO, we could even get a Longshot mini, much as I would never read it. You can try something new.

I will say that after eviscerating Claremont online so badly, I have some sympathy for the man, especially compared to the garbage Matt Fraction produces. But this is not a simple case of "Don't like it? Don't buy it!" Marvel is wasting their money, and they're allowing to waste any talent Claremont might still have by re-positioning his works to something within his wheelhouse.

Sure, and I don't disagree that it would be nice to see Claremont write something different, Ben. But you and I both know that's not where Marvel's head is these days. Claremont's gone on record as saying he's pitched different ideas and been told that they want him working on X-books and with characters he created, period. They're not giving him a Grant Morrison-esque deal, giving him the keys to their flagship title and saying, "Go wild, do whatever you want, just fill up the tank before you get back." If some editor comes forward and says, "We offered Claremont the chance to start up an entirely new book with either new characters or existing C-list characters, and he turned us down to do X-Men Forever," that's one thing, and I'll take it all back. But these days and in this economy, I don't see Marvel taking many of those risks.

-D

[Novaya Havoc]

Sure, and I don't disagree that it would be nice to see Claremont write something different, Ben. But you and I both know that's not where Marvel's head is these days. Claremont's gone on record as saying he's pitched different ideas and been told that they want him working on X-books and with characters he created, period. They're not giving him a Grant Morrison-esque deal, giving him the keys to their flagship title and saying, "Go wild, do whatever you want, just fill up the tank before you get back." If some editor comes forward and says, "We offered Claremont the chance to start up an entirely new book with either new characters or existing C-list characters, and he turned us down to do X-Men Forever," that's one thing, and I'll take it all back. But these days and in this economy, I don't see Marvel taking many of those risks.

-D

Oh, agreed. And this is one of the rare instances in which I will agree with you.

I make no bones about Forever. I'm not going to troll it unless it's absolutely LOLWTF, which, after New Excalibur, will be hard to top. I've said many times that Marvel simply does not want to take risks, and goes back on a "fail-safe" mode. It's kinda like one of the Red Queen's safety words. "APPLETINI!!!"

I just disagree with "Well, it's not like they're not producing other titles because of this!" They are. They are spending money, time, and effort. And the readership will not increase because of it. Claremont is a prime example of that when they're actively marketing to a nostalgia crowd. Maybe he's pidgeon-holed into that; I dunno. It's not like Matt Fraction/Warren Ellis spearheading the X-Men are that much better. It's not like Mike Carey is all that riveting.

But that's an issue I take with Marvel's marketing/editorial decisions, and really isn't fit for here.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Sexist much?

1. I'm not even sure there's a direct male equivalent for 'diva'. In light of the man's body of work, I don't have much of a problem using the word, really.

2. Seriously, bringing up 'sexism' in a CC-related thread is an epic fail from the get-go.

[pariah-1972]

And for once i'm gona agree with Novaya's comparison of Jim Shooter just look at the car crash that was his Legion for instance of irrelevancy.

[MartinRedmond]

And for once i'm gona agree with Novaya's comparison of Jim Shooter just look at the car crash that was his Legion for instance of irrelevancy.

Minus some disturbing moral quandaries, imo, his comeback on Legion was terrific. If the industry is to be diverse it has to publish some books that piss the current fanbase off.

[Imraith Nimphais]

To Novaya H.: Why should Marvel change thier marketing/editorial decisions when the bottomline figures have proven time and again that wot they are doing is profitable? Every week you all (minus a few exceptions) go on and on about how terrible UXM is...how late and irrelevant AXM is...yet they are consistently in the top 10 and top 20 of sales respectively. Why should they change their current MO concerning the X-titles when you have "hardcore" X-fans buying everything and anything with an X in the name despite how pointless and insipid and inane the story? Apparently, there is a niche market for X-Forever and as far as they are concerned, CC +X-men=additional profit. And I'm willing to wager that even if this "new" x-universe crashes and burns from the get go (and I honestly hope it does not) the "hardcore" X-fans and the "hardcore" CC-fans will come here and decry it's failings yet eagerly anticipate the next issue.
Personally, as much as I appreciate Claremont and I love the X-men, I have no interest wot-so-ever in "wot might have been", especially given the 2 decade time lapse...and while it may turn out to be better than the "here and now"...that is not a gamble I (and my wallet) am willing to take.

[worstblogever]

Half the answers in his interviews are formulaic as his issue dialogue now.

"Blah blah blah (character name here) blah wait and see".

Are people really on the edge of their seats waiting for 20 year old plot threads to be resolved, but only as he intended? Hell no. People have moved on. This is at best, a mild curiosity, and the interviews do nothing to give any inkling as to what's going on.

Chris, what about...

.... .... .... wait and see.

Anyone who's been waiting that long, and still falls for that trick, I pity.

[TROUBLEZ]

Having the early 90s Rogue is what sealed the deal for me, as she was my favorite on the team.
Art looks great and continuing from where X-Men #3 left is an interesting angle.

[chastmastr]

There is no Rachel in this timeline, as he's using his own self imposed rule that there is only one Rachel in the multiverse

From Comixfan

I'm not happy about that -- and also, if everything published up to X-Men 1-3 is part of the backstory of X-Men Forever, doesn't that mean Rachel's appearances are too? :confused: There's even been references to Kitty having been in Excalibur before this...

Still very much looking forward to the series. I can't see how he can't simply say that "there is only one Rachel" was a mistake. I'm pretty sure that she's at least appeared in some What Ifs, as well as these...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Summers#Other_versions

Couldn't he just decide that the Rachel in 616 right now isn't the "real" Rachel, and then use her as he sees fit? It's not like it's crossing over or anything. Heck, Byrne did that with the Doom/Doombot from the Arcade storyline back in the 1980s.

David

[bfrank]

I'm not happy about that -- and also, if everything published up to X-Men 1-3 is part of the backstory of X-Men Forever, doesn't that mean Rachel's appearances are too? :confused: There's even been references to Kitty having been in Excalibur before this...

Still very much looking forward to the series. I can't see how he can't simply say that "there is only one Rachel" was a mistake. I'm pretty sure that she's at least appeared in some What Ifs, as well as these...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Summers#Other_versions

Couldn't he just decide that the Rachel in 616 right now isn't the "real" Rachel, and then use her as he sees fit? It's not like it's crossing over or anything. Heck, Byrne did that with the Doom/Doombot from the Arcade storyline back in the 1980s.

David

Don't forget the male rachel from House of M days.....

and that wiki....If betts has Jean's TK, wouldn't that make betts omega class....

[Disco Jess Minge]

I think the one Rachel thing only is the silliest thing ever. Because Claremont is gonna hold himself to this shows why he's one of the worst writers around. Because he can't write out of his own box. I doubt the Rachel fans would care if he contradicted himself on Rachel's "unique-ness" in the multiverse, just so that they could see him write their favorite character again.

This is the smoking gun on why it's not the "evil interfering" editors' fault because his scripts leave a canyon-wide lot to be desired these days or years or decades.

[Babylon23]

1 - Tell Jim Shooter to f**k off.


Marvel hates Shooter so much that they give Claremont his own title where he can re-write Shooter in a form of epic revisionist history.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but what does Shooter have to do with this? He was well gone from Marvel 3 or 4 years before X-Men #3. Claremont's dispute at the time was with Bob Harris, not Shooter.

[Joe Franklin]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but what does Shooter have to do with this? He was well gone from Marvel 3 or 4 years before X-Men #3. Claremont's dispute at the time was with Bob Harris, not Shooter.

He shootered Claremont the finger.:biggrin:

[steve2275]

*a hardcore x men and wrestling man*

[Novaya Havoc]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but what does Shooter have to do with this? He was well gone from Marvel 3 or 4 years before X-Men #3. Claremont's dispute at the time was with Bob Harris, not Shooter.

I'm not talking Claremont. Claremont now has a weird respect for Shooter, despite hating him at the time for the triumvirate of Phoenix-Jean-Madelyne/Dazzler/Secret Wars.

But Marvel editorial hates him. And Claremont glossing over some of Shooter's more unseemly interferences is A-OK.

[DeadXMan]

it's kinda like hind sight is 20/20

Shooter would of backed CC in 91. and he did keep CC's more outthere ideas in check. (something Fraction needs right now)

[Joe Franklin]

Shooter would of backed CC in 91. and he did keep CC's more outthere ideas in check. (something Fraction needs right now)

Outside of Mike Carey's awesome X-Men run(X-Men Legacy is average though), Fraction's run has been the best in the last 15 years, which shows you just haw bad the core X-Men titles have been lately. It's sad.:frown:

[Babylon23]

I'm not talking Claremont. Claremont now has a weird respect for Shooter, despite hating him at the time for the triumvirate of Phoenix-Jean-Madelyne/Dazzler/Secret Wars.

But Marvel editorial hates him. And Claremont glossing over some of Shooter's more unseemly interferences is A-OK.

Fair enough. But Marvel haven't given Claremont X-Men Forever so that he can 're-write Shooter in a form of epic revisionist history'. He's rewriting Bob Harris instead.

Given how bad early 90's post claremont X-Men was, I have no problem with that at all.

I've heard Claremont talk about his dislike of Jean's return and Secret Wars (especially breaking up Kitty and Colossus), but do you have any quotes on his dislike of Dazzler? I know he didn't want to use her in X-Men 130 but was she forced upon him during his later early 200's run?

[Joe Franklin]

But Marvel editorial hates him.

How much of Marvel's current editorial staff has ever worked with Shooter? Just curious?

[Babylon23]

How much of Marvel's current editorial staff has ever worked with Shooter? Just curious?

Ralph Macchio is all I can think of off the top of my head.

[Joe Franklin]

Ralph Macchio is all I can think of off the top of my head.

Then I wonder why some posters are saying Marvel's editorial staff hates Shooter, when none of them have ever worked with the guy before?:confused:

[Babylon23]

Then I wonder why some posters are saying Marvel's editorial staff hates Shooter, when none of them have ever worked with the guy before?:confused:

It's a Dazzler thing. Apparently it explains away why nobody at Marvel seems to like Dazzler.

[Joe Franklin]

It's a Dazzler thing. Apparently it explains away why nobody at Marvel seems to like Dazzler.

But Shooter has not been EIC for so long? Are you as :confused: as i am?

[Babylon23]

But Shooter has not been EIC for so long? Are you as :confused: as i am?

Pretty much...but then I'm not a Dazzler fan so I guess I just don't understand.

[eurazn]

It's a Dazzler thing. Apparently it explains away why nobody at Marvel seems to like Dazzler.

Oh goodness. Let's not counter perceived assumptions with other perceived assumptions.

[Joe Franklin]

Pretty much...but then I'm not a Dazzler fan so I guess I just don't understand.

I like Dazzler just fine, but can't see why the current Marvel editorial staff would care what shooter did when he was EIC? Makes no sense at all?

[eurazn]

I like Dazzler just fine, but can't see why the current Marvel editorial staff would care what shooter did when he was EIC? Makes no sense at all?

Here's an article speaking to that:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=147

Old stigmas die hard.

[Babylon23]

Oh goodness. Let's not counter perceived assumptions with other perceived assumptions.

Sorry. I was using Novaya's argument that presented downthread. To quote:

Marvel celebrates the anniversary of Jim Shooter being fired.

Claremont hates Shooter. Ergo, he hates Dazzler.
Marvel hates Shooter, ergo they hate Dazzler.

[Sean Whitmore]

I like seeing those 90's costumes again. Takes me back.

Guess I shouldn't get used to them, though.


SEAN

[Elayis]

Where did all the posts go?! :confused:

When I was on the site, at around 1 pm, there were, like, 18 pages. Now only 14?

I think I've spoken my piece on this, but in case in got deleted, I'll sum it up again:

This doesn't appeal to me, as I've never been a big Claremont fan and wasn't reading X-Men 1-3 when it was originally published, so the change from Claremont to Lee didn't bother me. In fact, I think I actually liked it more, as there was considerably less exposition. And wasn't it Lee who introduced Maverick? I quite liked that character, and I'm glad he made an appearance in Wolverine: Weapon X, minus costume, unfortunately.

For the most part, this seems to be Claremont saying that when he left, everyone since has been telling the wrong X-story, and he's back to clean up the mess. All this is is a nostalgia project for old fans (and the writer). I don't see this project surviving for very long, but I'm not going to wish it ill (unlike my hatred for Loeb). However, I'm going to pick up the Alpha issue collecting the first issue, as I only own #1, and I'll read issue 1 when it comes out next month. I may actually like it; I'm certaily not going to denounce this project without giving it a chance, but my expecations for this project are very low.


And on a side note, I find it funny that Joe Franklin also likes this writer, the only other writer besides Jeph Loeb who writes the worst dialogue ever. Do you also happen to like Howard Mackie by any chance?

In a post that might have been deleted, I saw that someone said Claremont created Sabre(er?)tooth. Is this true? He created the rip-off Wolverine/Beast that was never necessary? Just another lame idea by Claremont, I guess. At least Loeb made the right choice, and killed him, although his death lacked any depth or emotion.

[Sean Whitmore]

I think I've spoken my piece on this, but in case in got deleted, I'll sum it up again:

If this gets deleted, I hope you come back and say it all a third time.


SEAN

[Pro]

Apparently it explains away why nobody at Marvel seems to like Dazzler.

I think nobody at Marvel likes Dazzler because she's an outdated hag.
Good for background decoration and nostalgia so people can go:"Oh look it's Dazzler, remember the 70's when she was still relevant?".

[peopleofpaper]

It's probably hard to come up with ways to use Dazzler. I'd be stumped trying to write for a character with light powers. But I like her making cameos in Uncanny. The more the merrier in my opinion.

[MNM]

Why the animosity? What has Claremont done to upset you.

No animosity to Claremont himself, I just strongly dislike his work. I can simply not get through any comic wrote by him as I find it that bad. So I will not pay to read it, even if the basic idea, and the accompanying art is interesting in itself.

[Dagger]

If the book didn't have a very obvious AGENDA, maybe someone could make a case against it being uber fanfic.

As it is, the book has two purposes:

1 - Tell Jim Shooter to f**k off.

2 - Tell every other x-writer from the past 18 years that they got it wrong and that his Highness would've done better.

Seriously, let's stop kidding ourselves, folks.
But Jim Shooter wasn't the EiC when Claremont quit. It was Tom DeFalco.:confused:

[Hypestyle]

No he hasn't. In the Mutant Genesis TPB, which has the issues that follow 1-3. It shows all of the X-Men, blue and gold, meeting. The gold team is team dressed in the formal clothes for the Hellfire club event which the Hellions are killed, Emma is put into a coma, and Bishops arrival. And I remember there was an editors note say "Yep, all this takes place before Uncanny 281!"

if bishop never shows up, the claremont era team will continue to avoid including an adult black male.. (sunspot's junior-squad status doesn't count) :mad:

[Blade X]

Probably a lot of blackmales, such as myself that read the comic.

Count me among the many black males who definitely cares about the inclusion of other black males of African descent (as well as ALL NON WHITE MINORITIES) on the main X-Men team. Hopefully, CC will introduce some new minority characters on theam, and maybe one of them will be a male AA.

[That JonoGuy]

I don't think there really is much to worry about concerning CC and characters of color. He did give us Neal Shaara and Karima Shapandar.

[Agent_Torpor]

I don't think there really is much to worry about concerning CC and characters of color. He did give us Neal Shaara and Karima Shapandar.

He can take Neal Sharra right on back to the gloryhole he pulled him from..

Let's not forget token asian Red Lotus!

[protege]

I've only read a portion of the interview, and I've got some comments;
1) I don't remember Scott and Emma being married, in this series so who's the kid they're referring to?
2) Caledonia- I don't remember her in Xmen, but in "Fantastic Four." That said, I like her, and would love to see her on the team, but seems there's already a redhead on it.
3) You know what I'd kind of like to see? Sebastian Shaw on the Xmen.

[Excelsior]

3) You know what I'd kind of like to see? Sebastian Shaw on the Xmen.

Ohhh, nice one. Carey should have used that idea. Talk about tension.

[Agent_Torpor]

Ohhh, nice one. Carey should have used that idea. Talk about tension.

I'm not crazy on the idea. It's been done to tedium with Emma Frost, the whole switchin' sides.

[Blade X]

I don't think there really is much to worry about concerning CC and characters of color. He did give us Neal Shaara and Karima Shapandar.

And Red Lotus,Shola,Hub,and Askabar the Spear,

[darknessatnoon]

And Red Lotus,Shola,Hub,and Askabar the Spear,

Don't forget The Examiner.

[eurazn]

And Red Lotus,Shola,Hub,and Askabar the Spear,

Don't forget The Examiner.

I'd rather forget ...

[Fatguy]

3) You know what I'd kind of like to see? Sebastian Shaw on the Xmen.

I would like to see Shaw in everything. He should be the next Wolverine.

[Agent_Torpor]

I would like to see Shaw in everything. He should be the next Wolverine.

I'd just want a Hellfire Club series, properly written and illustrated. Now is that too hard to ask for? Shoot, it'd sell more than a New Mutants revival.

[Agent_Torpor]

Don't forget The Examiner.

How could we, it was such a richly-textured character!

[Sean Whitmore]

I'm not crazy on the idea. It's been done to tedium with Emma Frost, the whole switchin' sides.

How hilarious would it be if the entire Inner Circle were undercover X-Men the whole time? Tessa, Shaw, Pierce, Frost, and everyone else were all agents of Xavier, spying on the waitresses and butlers.


SEAN

[Fatguy]

I'd just want a Hellfire Club series, properly written and illustrated. Now is that too hard to ask for? Shoot, it'd sell more than a New Mutants revival.

No it wouldn't.

But I'd buy!

[Fatguy]

How hilarious would it be if the entire Inner Circle were undercover X-Men the whole time? Tessa, Shaw, Pierce, Frost, and everyone else were all agents of Xavier, spying on the waitresses and butlers.


SEAN

LMAO It would make sense, the butler always did it.

[Sean Whitmore]

I'd just want a Hellfire Club series, properly written and illustrated. Now is that too hard to ask for? Shoot, it'd sell more than a New Mutants revival.

Be a hell of a lot less lame and regressive, too.


SEAN

[eurazn]

I would like to see Shaw in everything. He should be the next Wolverine.

I'd support this as long as you could guarantee he'd flash more moobs during all his appearances.

[Fatguy]

I'd support this as long as you could guarantee he'd flash more moobs during all his appearances.

His powers always manage to combust his shirt, so I would say its a safe bet.

[Agent_Torpor]

No it wouldn't.

But I'd buy!

NM's got a FAT STACK still sitting at my LCS. And X-related paraphernalia usually sells out uberquick.

I'm eager to see the figures for NM. It's going on the basis of old name recognition alone and there's zero sexiness to the creative team.

[Agent_Torpor]

I'd support this as long as you could guarantee he'd flash more moobs during all his appearances.

Those are less moobs than finely chiseled slabs of sirloin.

[Fatguy]

NM's got a FAT STACK still sitting at my LCS. And X-related paraphernalia usually sells out uberquick.

I'm eager to see the figures for NM. It's going on the basis of old name recognition alone and there's zero sexiness to the creative team.

True, but I think for nostalgia sake it would still have a better shot at sales. I would predict Hellfire Club sales would be on par with that Brotherhood series from a few years back.

Depending on the creative team of course. But I doubt they'd be willing to put anybody too high profile on such a book.

I do wish it would happen though.....get Warren Ellis, or Grant Morrison on it. With some sexy Bachalo art. Mmmmmmmmm.

[Sean Whitmore]

I do wish it would happen though.....get Warren Ellis, or Grant Morrison on it. With some sexy Bachalo art. Mmmmmmmmm.

Fucking hell, Ellis on a Hellfire Club book would be a match made in...well, not heaven, but it'd be a good match.


SEAN

[Fatguy]

Fucking hell, Ellis on a Hellfire Club book would be a match made in...well, not heaven, but it'd be a good match.


SEAN

Seriously, it would be effing fantastic. It kinda makes me drool a little thinking about it.

[SynthesisNY]

I'm actually preferring Grummett over other possible artists. Based on the preview pages, his storytelling through images is solid and clear. I prefer this over Land (everyone's smiling no matter what, for porn shots) and Jim Lee (everyone's posing for the kewl pin-up shots). In contrast, Grummett shows a range of facial expressions and mood. It seems like a "good match" for Claremont.

[jarrod]

Fucking hell, Ellis on a Hellfire Club book would be a match made in...well, not heaven, but it'd be a good match.


SEAN
Well, he probably wouldn't chump Shaw like Fraction did at least. :/

[Agent_Torpor]

Well, he probably wouldn't chump Shaw like Fraction did at least. :/

Yeah, Sebastian Shaw, locked in the brig because of Emma's mindgames. Whooo boy. Naptime.

[Babylon23]

I hope you try the book. It's unprecedented---a creator picking up after a classic run, right where they left off.

I'd like to see more of this. I'd love to see Byrne's original plans for his West Coast Avengers run, or Michelinie & Layton's Armour Wars II story.

[Joe Franklin]

I'd like to see more of this. I'd love to see Byrne's original plans for his West Coast Avengers run

:eek:

Oh yeah!

Byrne's Avengers West Coast run is my all time favorite Avengers run, even though it was short lived.:frown:

[Hypestyle]

..Firestar needs to join the team.. have an encounter with the New Warriors..