Would it make sense for Marvel to unify ALL of their 616 characters?

[ProfeZZor X]

Marvel is in this business to make money, not to appease fans like us. And what better way to do so than to broaden the range of product they produce and have their entire line of characters interact from book to book on a regular basis.

It's been decades that their long time characters have already been established in the general population through movies, television, comics and other media... wouldn't it make sense to have them all interact on a regular basis, rather than remain isolated from other superhero/villainous organizations in their respective books. I can understand that it would make sense for some characters to have a mainstay book, but seeing that Marvel has such a gallery and variety of characters - both hero and villain alike, wouldn't in be in their best interest to allow someone like Doctor Doom cross over into a book like X-Men, or Magneto featured in Fantastic Four, and so on. Some characters have so much in common either by powers, organization, general knowledge of each other, and live in such close proximity to one another that it should be a no brainer that they interact.

This is not something new, because DC Comics does it with some of their characters. Not only could it generate more business for them, it would allow struggling writers to create more interesting stories with a broader range of characters, it would also allow readers that are not familiar with some characters to investigate the books that character is usually seen in... Which translates to more sales.

Of course there are always downsides of it, but I can't see any at the moment.

Now I'm not talking about disbanning all of Marvel's teams out there to make this happen, just suggesting they allow more movement of characters from book to book. Some characters are either in limbo, are last seen in the general area of other team members of another book, or could be written with an agenda that involves characters from other books - without it being some kind of major crossover. It's just a shame that with so many obscure and limboed characters out there going to waste, revitalizing some of them is so easy, just by including them in a poorly performing book.

The possibilities are endless, it's just a matter of it all making (dollars &) sense...

What are your thoughts?

[pharoahe22]

I do agree that a lot of the books seem disjointed, but a lot of people complain when books have over-arching stories and stuff. Like someone the other day mentioned why all these different characters were effected by Dark Reign, and why Ms. Marvel etc. had books with Dark Reign titles, and I was like, "well don't all of these characters occupy the same place?" Same thing was said about every book having a Secret Invasion tag. If something big happens in one book, it should effect all of the books in some way. Sometimes, it seems as if the X-men are in their own universe. Like Magneto and Apocalypse'll show up, and the Avengers are no where to be found. I would like to see the FF take on Avenger villains, the Avengers take on X-men villains, and X-men take on FF villains sometime. I think it would be fun.

[coldstar]

In principle, I agree. As Wheedon showed, if monsters are coming out of the ground and attacking New York, there's really no reason the X-men shouldn't help out. Likewise with most of the other threats, particularly the ones with world-conquest plans. It's not as if sitting around in their tower is going to help the FF if Ultron actually wins.

In practice, it would have to be done carefully. A lot of the dynamic between heroes and villains relies on long-term conflicts, history between them, etc. And because heroes/teams do have specific nemeses, they're more likely to keep an eye out for them, be suspicious/active enough to find and foil their foes' evil plots. So while sure, if Magneto's trying to destroy the planet, the Avengers should get involved, it would make less sense for Ronin to mobilize them on a "let's go take out the Purifiers" mission. And it would be very strange for Reed and Sue to all of a sudden start trying to hunt down the Red Skull.

[marvell2100]

Back in the day(yes, ancient times), it wasn't out of the ordinary for characters to appear in other books and it wasn't because of a major crossover. The MU wasn't as fractured as it is now. The X-Men almost seem isolated in another world. It probably won't happen again but it would be cool to have the MU integrated again. You have more heroes meeting in space than you do on Earth sometimes.

[NewMutant]

I would have liked after Civil War that all superheroes... mutants/alien/etc would forced into a large pool and then randomly assigned to the 50 state intiative. Then for a year or two had scrambled teams. They still could have done DR and had Osborn take over and then done the same with adding villians to the team for another year. The have a big rebellion or a civil war 2 and then put the teams back as avengers, x-men, fantastic four.

[celticguy]

of course if they do this, wolverine is in every book every month.

[marvell2100]

of course if they do this, wolverine is in every book every month.

Hmmmm...that could be a problem. I'm trying to remember how they did it in the olden daze. I think they mangaged to trap him a volcano one time and on another occassion he was banished to the Savage Land.

[KrullWall]

Its true everyone should share theri villians. Plus I dont like how mutant problems are only mutant problems.

[Sighphi]

Not with the current people writing for Marvel.
For example, Bendis does whatever he wants screw everyone else.

So if this would happened it would basically be just following what Bendis says instead of all writes coming together to share.

[CaptainCanada]

Marvel is in this business to make money, not to appease fans like us. And what better way to do so than to broaden the range of product they produce and have their entire line of characters interact from book to book on a regular basis.

It's been decades that their long time characters have already been established in the general population through movies, television, comics and other media... wouldn't it make sense to have them all interact on a regular basis, rather than remain isolated from other superhero/villainous organizations in their respective books. I can understand that it would make sense for some characters to have a mainstay book, but seeing that Marvel has such a gallery and variety of characters - both hero and villain alike, wouldn't in be in their best interest to allow someone like Doctor Doom cross over into a book like X-Men, or Magneto featured in Fantastic Four, and so on. Some characters have so much in common either by powers, organization, general knowledge of each other, and live in such close proximity to one another that it should be a no brainer that they interact.

This is not something new, because DC Comics does it with some of their characters. Not only could it generate more business for them, it would allow struggling writers to create more interesting stories with a broader range of characters, it would also allow readers that are not familiar with some characters to investigate the books that character is usually seen in... Which translates to more sales.

Of course there are always downsides of it, but I can't see any at the moment.

Now I'm not talking about disbanning all of Marvel's teams out there to make this happen, just suggesting they allow more movement of characters from book to book. Some characters are either in limbo, are last seen in the general area of other team members of another book, or could be written with an agenda that involves characters from other books - without it being some kind of major crossover. It's just a shame that with so many obscure and limboed characters out there going to waste, revitalizing some of them is so easy, just by including them in a poorly performing book.

The possibilities are endless, it's just a matter of it all making (dollars &) sense...

What are your thoughts?
Um, seriously? Marvel pioneered the shared universe; their characters and villains interact all the time, at least as much as DC's do.

Sure, you'll occasionally get other peoples' big villains fighting other groups, but that doesn't happen a lot for two reasons: the first is that the 'main' title will often have some long-running story going on with them, and the second is that the heroes tend not to have a huge amount of history with the others' villains compared to their own (and vice versa).

[Comet Man]

Back in the day(yes, ancient times), it wasn't out of the ordinary for characters to appear in other books and it wasn't because of a major crossover. The MU wasn't as fractured as it is now. The X-Men almost seem isolated in another world. It probably won't happen again but it would be cool to have the MU integrated again. You have more heroes meeting in space than you do on Earth sometimes.

Yep, it used to happen a lot, and with no huge fanfare, no hype. I remember when the Defenders took on Magneto in a stand alone story in which the Defenders turned him into an infant. One of my favorite stories. I really miss Marvel in the seventies.:smile:

[T Hedge Coke]

Anyone who thinks these characters aren't interacting often enough, missed every major crossover even that ate up the Marvel U in the past five years. X-Men have been in Avengers, Fantastic Four in X-Men, Spidey in the Human Torch, Torch in...

It's not happening in every book every month, but it is happening in at least one book every month, and another the next. And somebody is namechecked in a book not theirs at least four times a month (usually, SHIELD, but there you go).

[T Hedge Coke]

Yep, it used to happen a lot, and with no huge fanfare, no hype. I remember when the Defenders took on Magneto in a stand alone story in which the Defenders turned him into an infant. One of my favorite stories. I really miss Marvel in the seventies.:smile:

Was there an X-Men going when that happened, though? I seem to recall that was during the reprint-era.

The X-Men have encountered Doom more than once, but the other side of this, is that creators can sometimes job the other title's characters (usually villains, but not always), to hype their own. I thought Wolverine in Punisher was hilarious Ennis, but Punisher in Wolverine right after? Apparently Byrne didn't think kindly of the initial X-Men/Doom story. Peter David and Erik Larsen's alternate takes on Hulk and Dr. Octopus. X-Man in Excalibur and Excalibur in X-Man take the time to deconstruct each other's title character(s) but end up basically pouncing on the perceived defects in ways that made the crossover incompatible with itself. Captain America and Iron Man both end up looking like a jerk much more outside of their own titles.

[marvell2100]

Yep, it used to happen a lot, and with no huge fanfare, no hype. I remember when the Defenders took on Magneto in a stand alone story in which the Defenders turned him into an infant. One of my favorite stories. I really miss Marvel in the seventies.:smile:

I remember that story. That what was so cool about it back then, seeing characters show up in books where you wouldn't expect it. And there were no banners across the covers of the book saying "_____ tie-in". It was just random happenings.

[Drcharles]

I thought on the whole most of the Characters do interact, I remember many stories where the FF were contacting the Avengers for help etc......

[Sighphi]

I thought on the whole most of the Characters do interact, I remember many stories where the FF were contacting the Avengers for help etc......

Their continuities dont interact and the first couple of FF arcs were the perfect examples of this.

Sure the characters appear in each other's world but their stories are pretty much self contained.

[T Hedge Coke]

Their continuities dont interact and the first couple of FF arcs were the perfect examples of this.

Sure the characters appear in each other's world but their stories are pretty much self contained.

Most of the Marvel U didn't exist when the FF had their first couple arcs, if you could call them that. That said, the Fantastic Four and the X-Men first met shortly after the X-Men came into existence, and the Avengers were founded in part because the FF weren't available. Namor and the original Human Torch were reintroduced as part of the MU in the pages of Fantastic Four, and Namor went on to assist in the rediscovery of Captain America by the Avengers, who in turn led the second iteration of the team, peopled by two ex-X-Men villains and a guy who shot arrows and Iron Man to impress a Russian superspy who later led the Avengers, herself, but before that stole Spider-Man's wrist-shooter idea and slept with Daredevil, who's used Spider-Man, Iron Fist, and the Black Panther as doubles at different points, as well as also sleeping with Elektra, who once turned Wolverine into an assassin who killed lots of SHIELD agents, but not Nick Fury, who was once murdered (but not) by Frank Castle, who later went on to run over Wolverine with a piece of heavy machinery.

There has been lots of continual crossover since the beginning of the modern MU, and still is, from Magneto in The Defenders to AIM in New X-Men, or this years company-wide crossover event.

[Sighphi]

Dude, first few Millar arcs not actual first arcs.

[CaptainCanada]

Millar's story included, among other things, a direct tie-in to Mighty Avengers.

[Sighphi]

Millar's story included, among other things, a direct tie-in to Mighty Avengers.

Yes the Doctor Doom is he in jail or not thing.
Sorry but Doctor Doom being in jail doesnt even connect with it's own Bendis continuity.

[T Hedge Coke]

Dude, first few Millar arcs not actual first arcs.

Not that there was anything in the post to denote that. I mean, the FF have had arcs before, and they have contacted the Avengers before Millar ever wrote them.

[CaptainCanada]

Sorry but Doctor Doom being in jail doesnt even connect with it's own Bendis continuity.
Yes, it does; he's arrested in MA; in the FF arc he is busted out and recovered; back in jail for DKR and for Norman to let him out.

[GHalecki]

It used to be the case where the X-Men only fighting mutant threats was extremely rare. Between 95 and 200 the X-Men spent a lot of time fighting more general villians. The Sh'iar were an alien race that could have just as easily been an Avengers story. They fought Moses Magnum, Arcade, D'Spayer, Dr Doom, Silver Samurai, the Brood, and a miguided Dragon in Japan. There was probably more too.

The perfect "non crossover" was done with Byrne and Stern crossing over Fantastic Four with Avengers. Annhilus was going to destroy the world. The FF were fighting him from the Negative Zone, and the Avengers were fighting him from Manhattan. Completely oblivious as to what the other team was doing. I am pretty sure that the covers didn't even advertise the link.

The first hints of a major orchastrated tie in of all of the books that I can think of was the Casket of Ancient Winters storyline from Thor. An ancient artifact opened up and brought winter to the whole world at once. That month it snowed in all of Marvel's books. At least all of the books I can think of, including Avengers, FF, X-Men, New Mutants, and Daredevil (IIRC).

I think the old Defenders were good at fighting other people's bad guys, since none of them had particularly strong rogue's galleries (or any at all in some cases).

[Sighphi]

Yes, it does; he's arrested in MA; in the FF arc he is busted out and recovered; back in jail for DKR and for Norman to let him out.

So while everyone was leaving the Raft when it broke down during SI........ Doom stayed?

[CaptainCanada]

So while everyone was leaving the Raft when it broke down during SI........ Doom stayed?
Or was recaptured; take it up with Bendis, not Millar.

[Sighphi]

Or was recaptured; take it up with Bendis, not Millar.

Hey! You brought it up and i do hit Bendis too so .... there.

[Parch]

There has been a fair amount of guest appearances from some of the B-team heroes. Namor, Thor, Hulk, and Dr. Strange are just a few who showed up a fair amount in the mainstream titles. At least in the 70's and 80's they did. It makes sense that it should have happened more often with villians as well.

Perhaps another attempt at a Marvel Team-Up title could work, except this time don't include Spiderman in every issue. But only as a stand alone title. I'm not too keen on seeing more company-wide crossovers.

[Sighphi]

There has been a fair amount of guest appearances from some of the B-team heroes. Namor, Thor, Hulk, and Dr. Strange are just a few who showed up a fair amount in the mainstream titles. At least in the 70's and 80's they did. It makes sense that it should have happened more often with villians as well.

Perhaps another attempt at a Marvel Team-Up title could work, except this time don't include Spiderman in every issue. But only as a stand alone title. I'm not too keen on seeing more company-wide crossovers.

Again the question isnt about people showing up everywhere is HOW people show up, how they fit in different places. Another easy example is Namor, the dude gave himself up to The Order because he really hates Stark then he is helping him with Red Hulk and then he is no longer in jail hanging out with Doom again and is friends with Osborn.

Character appear in a bunch of different books, yes, but there is troublesome connections between each appearance.

[ProfeZZor X]

Again the question isnt about people showing up everywhere is HOW people show up, how they fit in different places. Another easy example is Namor, the dude gave himself up to The Order because he really hates Stark then he is helping him with Red Hulk and then he is no longer in jail hanging out with Doom again and is friends with Osborn.

Character appear in a bunch of different books, yes, but there is troublesome connections between each appearance.

I somewhat agree... But if there was more interactions without them being major crossovers, we'd all be in a better place. Sure it's a hell of a lot of continuity checks and balances, but for the most part, there would be no guessing if certain characters met before, or establishing anything.

Just imagine, heroes falling in love with villains or other heroes (from other books), Iron man using Shiar technology to amp up his suits, characters from different books hanging out casually as friends (I already know that's been done before), certain characters being related to other characters from other books, and so on.

There are so many possibilities for that kind of interaction, and for writers, that we all wouldn't be so damn bored or pissed off with the same old cliche'd things we've been getting. So when a crossover comes along, we fans would know that it's a major deal rather than Marvel attempting to just extract more money out of our pockets.