Excalibur from the Beginning

[david r]

The X-Men are DEAD! Who will save mutantkind but a new team based in England......named EXCALIBUR!!!! The time has come! The Sword is Drawn! For this fan-favorite series to get it's own thread! Limerick and I will be starting with the earliest issues and moving forward, issue by issue, giving reviews/summaries/pictures/interviews on one of the funnest series ever to come out of the X-Office!

As with the other "From the Beginning" threads, all are welcome to join in, both from the US, England and lands unknown! :smile: The only two rules are to be courteous to fellow posters, and most importantly, DO NOT spoil events from upcoming issues!! This is a tricky one for some. Hinting is okay. Using spoiler tags is okay. But please be mindful I haven't read all these issues, as may be the case with other readers...so PLEASE be respectful to readers who don't know what's coming up around the corner.

So let's start, shall we? Kurt, Kitty, Brian, Meggan, Rachel and Lockheed await in this very special series. Advance, Britannia!

[david r]

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/7/7d/Excalibur_8_005.jpg

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/thumb/2/24/Excalibur_Sword_005.jpg/376px-Excalibur_Sword_005.jpg

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30219216364.1.GIF

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.1.GIF

[Nevets F]

I have been looking forward to this since...well, X-Men from the Beginning started! :D Excalibur is my third favorite series of all time, behind Alpha Flight and New Warriors (both volumes 1 of course).

This is Exciting! (though, not as exciting as when Alpha from the beginning started). ;)

Once again, thanks to David R and Limerick for doing these...you both go beyond the call of duty here, and it is MOST appreciated!

[Cub]

odumy49yqmahi2lj vk;je pfeoimgha

Can't focus. Too excited to type coherently.... po3f 9jmc

[Novaya Havoc]

odumy49yqmahi2lj vk;je pfeoimgha

Can't focus. Too excited to type coherently.... po3f 9jmc

I enjoy both your avatar and your user tagline. Gay Marry me in Rio.

[Cub]

Oh, Loca!... Im a Lila Cheney fan...

[Novaya Havoc]

Oh, Loca!... Im a Lila Cheney fan...

YOU LOCA WITH THAT MESS!

I don't see you walking children in nature!!!!!!! GTFO with your Lila Cheney mess!!!!!!!

[Cub]

OK, sorry for the double post, but I am a) so freakin' excited! and b) trying my damnedest to avoid writing a paper.

Love these two covers. I'm always impressed at how Alan Davis is so adept at crafting a slightly cartoony, whimsical look, without sacrificing any detail. His ability to put all of those characters on the cover of The Sword is Drawn without it appearing messy is so impressive. And the cover to #1 perfectly illustrates how he made each member physically unique. Meggan is fuller figured, Kitty still growing, and Rachel enters her bombshell phase (despite that hair...). Also, and it makes me feel slightly creepy mentioning this, but Davis seems to be one of the first x-artists I can remember that acknowledged... "man-parts". Kurt is clearly packing as he takes out both a warwolf and Ferro2.

[Cub]

YOU LOCA WITH THAT MESS!

I don't see you walking children in nature!!!!!!! GTFO with your Lila Cheney mess!!!!!!!

If it means anything, I too adore Crystal Cox.

[creaky]

Omg! <333333333333333333333333!!

[worstblogever]

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/thumb/2/24/Excalibur_Sword_005.jpg/376px-Excalibur_Sword_005.jpg


The light of the Phoenix is bright indeed. All of the ladies in that shot are squinting something fierce.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

So, David, are you starting with Excalibur: The Sword is Drawn in its own right, before moving onto Excalibur #1 or doing both together? :biggrin:

[Aelle3]

Oh I’m so excited about this, there are some brilliant stories and Davis covers coming up, Yeah for Widget!

[jarrod]

Finally! :biggrin:

[Dagger]

I have been looking forward to this since...well, X-Men from the Beginning started! :D Excalibur is my third favorite series of all time, behind Alpha Flight and New Warriors (both volumes 1 of course).

This is Exciting! (though, not as exciting as when Alpha from the beginning started). ;)

Once again, thanks to David R and Limerick for doing these...you both go beyond the call of duty here, and it is MOST appreciated!
Oooh! We should post our top ten favorite Marvel series and compare sometimes!

[Dagger]

Oh, Loca!... Im a Lila Cheney fan...

I thought they were a myth. Like Bigfoot and Nessy.

[jarrod]

I thought they were a myth. Like Bigfoot and Nessy.
Swash, Hi-Fi and me as well. I bet JAU's a Lila fan too.

I smell appreciation thread! :biggrin:

[Dagger]

Swash, Hi-Fi and me as well. I bet JAU's a Lila fan too.

I smell appreciation thread! :biggrin:

I thought you were imaginary like all the Slipstream fans who actually like him!:wink:

[jarrod]

I thought you were imaginary like all the Slipstream fans who actually like him!:wink:
I only like his hair and sexual practices!

I do genuinely like Lifeguard tho.... I can't help it, R'chel wired the love of Claremazons into my DNA. :frown:

[Dagger]

I only like his hair and sexual practices!

I do genuinely like Lifeguard tho.... I can't help it, R'chel wired the love of Claremazons into my DNA. :frown:
Well, you should get some molecular telekinetic who can rewrite your Claremazon DNA out of you. I'll become a top and fill your void.

[jarrod]

Well, you should get some molecular telekinetic who can rewrite your Claremazon DNA out of you. I'll become a top and fill your void.
OMG! Fill me up!

[MartinRedmond]

***films***

[Dagger]

OMG! Fill me up!
LOL! You were supposed to hide your response!!!! lol!

[limerick]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30219216364.1.GIF

Thanks to the legend ,Mr David R. for those great images----It's time for:EXCALIBUR FROM THE BEGINNING!

David's given some nice info. in the X-men thread how this series came about.At a time when Claremont was getting in touch with his British roots he came across the Marvel U.K. character,Captain Britain.Cap Britain had run in a few Marvel U.K. titles,primarily 'Marvel Superheroes',which reprinted U.S. Marvels in B&W.Cap Britain,drawn by Alan Davis,was the sole home-produced story at the time.The stories were more traditional British sci-fi(2000A.D.,Starlord)than Marvel in tone.

Claremont fell in love with the character and used him during his run on Marvel team-up.(Brian Braddock even shared an apartment with a certain Peter Parker for a while.)Claremont also became an admirer of Alan Davis(don't forget inker Paul Neary!)and after using him on some NM and X-Men annuals he tried to get him to pencil the X-men.Davis was too daunted by the task but Claremont wouldn't let him go and the two teamed up to form EXCALIBUR--an instant hit!!!

I'll be starting the issue summaries with the origin tale---"The Sword is Drawn"---a Marvel 'bookshelf' special which was published the same month as Uncanny # 228.The ongoing series began soon after.

It's a 48-page stonker so i'll be doing it in 2 parts-----first part tomorrow.Hoping for lots of input from everyone!

EXCELSIOR!!:biggrin:

Edit:Some of these facts are wrong.See TSID's post below for corresct info.Sorry!

[Nevets F]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30219216364.1.GIF

Thanks to the legend ,Mr David R. for those great images----It's time for:EXCALIBUR FROM THE BEGINNING!

David's given some nice info. in the X-men thread how this series came about.At a time when Claremont was getting in touch with his British roots he came across the Marvel U.K. character,Captain Britain.Cap Britain had run in a few Marvel U.K. titles,primarily 'Marvel Superheroes',which reprinted U.S. Marvels in B&W.Cap Britain,drawn by Alan Davis,was the sole home-produced story at the time.The stories were more traditional British sci-fi(2000A.D.,Starlord)than Marvel in tone.

Claremont fell in love with the character and used him during his run on Marvel team-up.(Brian Braddock even shared an apartment with a certain Peter Parker for a while.)Claremont also became an admirer of Alan Davis(don't forget inker Paul Neary!)and after using him on some NM and X-Men annuals he tried to get him to pencil the X-men.Davis was too daunted by the task but Claremont wouldn't let him go and the two teamed up to form EXCALIBUR--an instant hit!!!

I'll be starting the issue summaries with the origin tale---"The Sword is Drawn"---a Marvel 'bookshelf' special which was published the same month as Uncanny # 228.The ongoing series began soon after.

It's a 48-page stonker so i'll be doing it in 2 parts-----first part tomorrow.Hoping for lots of input from everyone!

EXCELSIOR!!:biggrin:

I CAN'T WAIT!!!

[Dagger]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30219216364.1.GIF

Thanks to the legend ,Mr David R. for those great images----It's time for:EXCALIBUR FROM THE BEGINNING!

David's given some nice info. in the X-men thread how this series came about.At a time when Claremont was getting in touch with his British roots he came across the Marvel U.K. character,Captain Britain.Cap Britain had run in a few Marvel U.K. titles,primarily 'Marvel Superheroes',which reprinted U.S. Marvels in B&W.Cap Britain,drawn by Alan Davis,was the sole home-produced story at the time.The stories were more traditional British sci-fi(2000A.D.,Starlord)than Marvel in tone.

Claremont fell in love with the character and used him during his run on Marvel team-up.(Brian Braddock even shared an apartment with a certain Peter Parker for a while.)Claremont also became an admirer of Alan Davis(don't forget inker Paul Neary!)and after using him on some NM and X-Men annuals he tried to get him to pencil the X-men.Davis was too daunted by the task but Claremont wouldn't let him go and the two teamed up to form EXCALIBUR--an instant hit!!!

I'll be starting the issue summaries with the origin tale---"The Sword is Drawn"---a Marvel 'bookshelf' special which was published the same month as Uncanny # 228.The ongoing series began soon after.

It's a 48-page stonker so i'll be doing it in 2 parts-----first part tomorrow.Hoping for lots of input from everyone!

EXCELSIOR!!:biggrin:
<3<3! I can't wait! This series made me LIKE Ray, and it had my #1jewho, Ms. Kitty Pryde!

[shankarma]

<3<3! I can't wait! This series made me LIKE Ray, and it had my #1jewho, Ms. Kitty Pryde!

i like kitty in this one too

[The Sword Is Drawn]

David's given some nice info. in the X-men thread how this series came about.At a time when Claremont was getting in touch with his British roots he came across the Marvel U.K. character,Captain Britain.Cap Britain had run in a few Marvel U.K. titles,primarily 'Marvel Superheroes',which reprinted U.S. Marvels in B&W.Cap Britain,drawn by Alan Davis,was the sole home-produced story at the time.The stories were more traditional British sci-fi(2000A.D.,Starlord)than Marvel in tone.

Claremont fell in love with the character and used him during his run on Marvel team-up.(Brian Braddock even shared an apartment with a certain Peter Parker for a while.)

Sorry to play pedant here, Limerick. But it wasn't a case of Claremont discovering Captain Britain. Claremont created Captain Britain, along with artist Herb Trimpe, back in 1976. Although, the character's creation was largely within a brief set by Stan Lee himself. He was a very different character back then, mind. If you pick up that early Marvel Team-Up appearance you'll see he used to wear a totally different costume, and fight with a staff (It's where the inspiration for Indie character Jack Staff came from).

There's a lot of Captain Britain stories out there, as you say, from different anthology books of the late 70s and early 80s. He also had two solo series. These stories are a good deal darker in tone than Excalibur. With Alan Moore (Watchmen, V for Vendetta) and Jamie Delano (Hellblazer) involved with a fair chunk of those it's hardly surprising. Davis was the penciller for the entire second half of Captain Britain's pre-Excalibur appearances.

Most US readers first came in contact with Captain Britain and Meggan in those Uncanny and New Mutants annuals. Those annuals followed on directly from the end of the 80s Captain Britain series, which was ended in part due to CC's want to reclaim the characters for a US book. CC originally pitched a new Captain Britain ongoing. Marvel were not so interested in a book which was ONLY Captain Britain, and after a bit of negotiation the project became a British team book.

Excalibur was born.

(Although earlier versions of the pitch had Cap and Kitty Pryde as a couple, had Colossus on the team, and Longshot, too. That changed after Fall of the Mutants took more shape as a story ).

I'm looking forward to this. Excalibur is a much overlooked title for many. I'm glad to see it getting some coverage.

[worstblogever]

(Although earlier versions of the pitch had Cap and Kitty Pryde as a couple, had Colossus on the team, and Longshot, too. That changed after Fall of the Mutants took more shape as a story ).


Wait, so Claremont wanted to fix up Captain Britain with Kitty Pryde, despite her still being 15 when she got shipped off to Excalibur? And when that got shot down, instead, Brian ended up with a child-minded Meggan?


Awkward.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Wait, so Claremont wanted to fix up Captain Britain with Kitty Pryde, despite her still being 15 when she got shipped off to Excalibur? And when that got shot down, instead, Brian ended up with a child-minded Meggan?


Awkward.

Kitty and Brian becoming a couple was mentioned in an earlier pitch, from what I have heard. As were Longshot and Colossus being on the roster. It's hard to see how that might work, but they are two of CC's proudest creations, mind.

It might also be worth noting that while Meggan does seem very childlike in early Excalibur this doesn't quite match with how the character had developed while Jamie Delano was finishing off his Captain Britain run (Immediately before those two annuals). Meggan was a lot more... woman, shall we say. She found a form which was slightly more aesthetically pleasing, and was far more playful with, and aware of, her sexual appeal.

[worstblogever]

Kitty and Brian becoming a couple was mentioned in an earlier pitch, from what I have heard. As were Longshot and Colossus being on the roster. It's hard to see how that might work, but they are two of CC's proudest creations, mind.

It might also be worth noting that while Meggan does seem very childlike in early Excalibur this doesn't quite match with how the character had developed while Jamie Delano was finishing off his Captain Britain run (Immediately before those two annuals). Meggan was a lot more... woman, shall we say. She found a form which was slightly more aesthetically pleasing, and was far more playful with, and aware of, her sexual appeal.

Meggan's child tendencies vs. her sexual moments are pretty random, come to think of it. One minute she's innocent, and the next, she's morphing into so & so's perfect gal to shack up. Bizarre.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Meggan's child tendencies vs. her sexual moments are pretty random, come to think of it. One minute she's innocent, and the next, she's morphing into so & so's perfect gal to shack up. Bizarre.

Completely. And this will provide plenty discussion in the issues to come.

[limerick]

Sorry to play pedant here, Limerick. But it wasn't a case of Claremont discovering Captain Britain. Claremont created Captain Britain, along with artist Herb Trimpe, back in 1976. Although, the character's creation was largely within a brief set by Stan Lee himself. He was a very different character back then, mind. If you pick up that early Marvel Team-Up appearance you'll see he used to wear a totally different costume, and fight with a staff (It's where the inspiration for Indie character Jack Staff came from).

There's a lot of Captain Britain stories out there, as you say, from different anthology books of the late 70s and early 80s. He also had two solo series. These stories are a good deal darker in tone than Excalibur. With Alan Moore (Watchmen, V for Vendetta) and Jamie Delano (Hellblazer) involved with a fair chunk of those it's hardly surprising. Davis was the penciller for the entire second half of Captain Britain's pre-Excalibur appearances.

Most US readers first came in contact with Captain Britain and Meggan in those Uncanny and New Mutants annuals. Those annuals followed on directly from the end of the 80s Captain Britain series, which was ended in part due to CC's want to reclaim the characters for a US book. CC originally pitched a new Captain Britain ongoing. Marvel were not so interested in a book which was ONLY Captain Britain, and after a bit of negotiation the project became a British team book.

Excalibur was born.

(Although earlier versions of the pitch had Cap and Kitty Pryde as a couple, had Colossus on the team, and Longshot, too. That changed after Fall of the Mutants took more shape as a story ).

I'm looking forward to this. Excalibur is a much overlooked title for many. I'm glad to see it getting some coverage.
You're right,TSID!Sorry about that!I have the Marvel Superheroes issue where Captain Britain's powers are no longer reliant on the staff he used to carry.It's also the issue he gets the costume we are most familiar with.

Of course his appearance in Marvel Team-up comes before that.That 2-parter(i think!) was also reprinted in the U.K. as a Spiderman special.

I hope you will continue to contribute to this thread as I know Cap. Britain(one of my own favourite characters)is a favourite of yours and my knowledge is far inferior to your own.Thanks for clearing that up!:biggrin:

[slam]

Can someone give some background as to Meggan's pre-Excalibur history? I first met her in the X-Men annual where Wolverine bested some alien gladiator when a drop of his blood reached the magic crystal, or something like that.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Can someone give some background as to Meggan's pre-Excalibur history? I first met her in the X-Men annual where Wolverine bested some alien gladiator when a drop of his blood reached the magic crystal, or something like that.

Pre-Excalibur Meggan's first appearance was during Alan Moore's Jaspers Warp storyline. She is imprisoned in one of Sir James Jaspers' concentration camps, and is being told a story by a friend of 'The Captain' and how would liberate them. It is a brief appearance, but she is identifiable, sitting in the glow of a fire and smoking a cigarette.

When Jamie Delano took over Captain Britain's writing duties Meggan made a reappearance. She appears very much in her 'Were-woman' persona, much more like a beast, whose behaviour appeared to be related to the phases of the moon. She attacks Brian when he encounters her in costume, and then flees, realising who she has attacked. After trying to track her down Brian encounters Meggan's friends, who explain that she is not some kind of werewolf, but a mutant shape shifter.

At this point in Captain Britain continuity a lot of other people have been kind of mutated by the fallout of Jim Jasper's reality warping, and Brian and pre-Psylocke Betsy have made Braddock Manor a safe haven for those people. Meggan decides to move into Braddock Manor with them, although there is no romantic involvement with Brian at that time.

Meggan is shown having learned a lot of her speech patterns and world knowledge from watching TV. She does not know where her real family are. At this point she is very much looking a part scaled, part hairy, beast. Over time it becomes clear she is quite smitten with Brian, but feels that he will never notice her as she looks the way she does. It weighs upon her.

During her stay at Braddock Manor Alison Double sees a lot of potential in Meggan and her powerset. She works with her, trying to persuade her to push herself towards he full potential. During an attack on Braddock Manor she reaches towards that for the first time and blasting into the air she changes her form into her current form, with the elfin looks but at that point with hair made from fire.

Surprisingly Brian begins to take notice from that point onwards... :cool:

Brian and Meggan become closer, and eventually become a couple. When Brian temporarily quits being Captain Britain Meggan follows him on his trip into Europe. There they encounter Baba Yaga. Meggan's powers get in sync with her magics and Brian finds himself kissing a freak lizard version of his new girlfriend... Needless to say they beat Baba Yaga, but this was one of the first stand out examples of Meggan changing her appearance due to the people directly around her. Something which would be further explored in Excalibur.

Brian are still together for the New Mutants and Uncanny annuals which involve Betsy being given robot eyes by Mojo, and the New mutants having to save the day as the X-Men, Brian and Meggan get transformed into infants.

That's not all of it, but it's a few key points. The whole of Meggan's pre-Excalibur appearances will be featured in the upcoming Captain Britain Omnibus.

[limerick]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30219216364.1.GIF

Excalibur--Special Edition 1987

"The Sword is Drawn"

Claremont/Davis

Due to the double length of this book I will be summarizing it in 2 parts

Part 1-----pages 1-25

Muir Isle,Scotland:Following the televised "death" of her former team-mates in Uncanny #227,Kitty Pryde lies in bed crying.Suddenly,she is aware of unseen people applying make-up to her face,dressing her in her X-costume and throwing her through a door into........a movie set!!

The set resembles the exterior of the X-mansion,while the "actors" are the current X-men line-up.But they are not the X-men we know--Havok is learning lines from a script while Wolverine gets his nails done wearing an oriental style dressing gown.(A MojoPix logo on a piece of equipment gives the game away.)Kitty originally thinks these are her friends but when she sees Psylocke having artificial eyes implanted and Rogue uneffected by skin-to-skin touch,she knows something is not right and she suspects she's having a nightmare.

The "Director",who resembles Prof. Xavier shouts "ACTION!" and suddenly the actors spring into action as if they were the real X-men.Cameras catch their movements as if they are starring in a movie.As Kitty tells herself this must be a dream Rachel/Pheonix suddenly appears and tells her:" dreams are sometimes windows to other realities"

"Xavier" shouts at Rachel that shes had her chance and she blew it and she shouldn't be here now.Suddenly, "The X-men" grab hold of chains attatched to Rachel and,pulling at the chains ,hold her captive.Kitty frees Rachel using her phasing power and Rachel escapes."The X-men" turn menacingly towards her and when "Xavier" orders "Warwolves" to capture her,"The X-men" shed their skin to reveal vicious lizard type creatures who pounce towards her........

Kitty suddenly awakes in her bed shocked at the realism of her "dream".Outside she sees the Pheonix-effect in the sunrise and feels it may be a sign.She returns to her room where Lockheed is waiting for her.Just managing to make herself solid long enough to hold a photograph of The X-men,she collapses in tears at the thought of her lost friends.

The Celtic Sea,Off The West Coast of England:(Where I come from we call it the Irish sea--so there!)Meggan has been travelling with a pod of dolphins,enjoying herself as they show her the wonders and mysteries of the sea.She sees the same Pheonix-eefect in the sunrise as Kitty and suddenly realise she's been away all night.She returns to the lighthouse she shares with Captain Britain to find the place messed up.She sees the news about Brian's sister,Psylocke on the television and,shocked,looks for Brian.Brian,blaming himself for not saving Psylocke,has turned to alcohol and is drunk.He lashes out verbally at Meggan when she tries to comfort him,calling her a "changling cow".He shouts that he just wants to be left alone.

Meggan is distraught and rushes to their bedroom crying.However, she realises Captain Britain is just lashin out because he is upset.She feels she is unable to deal with this by herself and leaves a note for Brian telling she has gone to a friend for help.She then flies out the window.....

The Gym,Muir Isle:Nightcrawler is enjoying a traing session which involves him sword-fighting several robots.However,when struck by a glancing blow,he instinctively teleports away.The effort completely drains him and he is close to collapse.Fortunately,Kitty enters ,short-circuiting the control panel when she phases through it bringing the advancing droids to an abrupt stop.Kitty is furious at Kurt for attempting such a dangerous exercise so soon.As they walk outside, he apologises,telling her he is still upset at having cheated death only to find when he recovered,his friends had "died".He then tells Kitty about a dream he had the night before which turns out to be exactly the same as Kitty's dream.They interept it to be a message of sorts and they head back to Moira's house to decide what to do.Suddenly ,there is a knock on the door and Kitty opens it to be faced by a large female Hippopotamus-like humanoid.........

The strange being enters and introduces herself as Gatecrasher.She asks to see the master/mistress of the house.Just then Meggan flies in the door looking for Kitty.She recognise Gatecrasher having fought her in the past.Gatecrasher uses a crystal to project an image of her boss,Opal Luna Saturnyne....omniversal majestrix(and Emma Frost look-a-like).Saturnyne wants Pheonix captured and she believes she is returning to earth.When Kitty strongly objects Gatecrasher orders her small sidekick,Snee,to teleport the rest of The Technet to them.Suddenly,Kitty,Kurt and Meggan are surrounded by several bizzare lokking creatures who seem intent on violence if it is required.....

A short battle follows and Kurt teleports away leaving Kitty and Meggan to be imprisioned by the strange Bodybag,who swallows his captives trapping them within his body.

Somewhere in London:Pheonix materialises from thin air and falls to the ground,landing on a large cake!She is surrounded by several bizzare looking people and at first she feels she may still be in MOJO-world.But it becomes clear she is at a fancy dress party.The party goers are suspicious of her and they grab the same chains "the X-men" grabbed in Kitty's dream.As Pheonix begins to escape there is a gasp from the crowd as they gaze towards the ceiling.Six Warwolves have materialised just like Rachel did (and they don't look friendly.............)

PART 2 SOON!

[slam]

Thanks, Sword.

[Loki]

At this point in Captain Britain continuity a lot of other people have been kind of mutated by the fallout of Jim Jasper's reality warping, and Brian and pre-Psylocke Betsy have made Braddock Manor a safe haven for those people.
Need to correct a few points, sorry. At the point Meggan is invited to move in Brian has not made the Manor into a safe haven for the Warpies - even Betsy isn't in the Manor when Meggan first moves in, as she is with Alison Double and Victoria Bentley, who are helping her convalesce after her being in her lover's mind when he was shot dead during the Jaspers' Warp. The Warpies arrive a fair bit later.


Surprisingly Brian begins to take notice from that point onwards... :cool:
Well, not so surprising. Some people have suggested that Brian was shallow to only notice Meggan once she became pretty, but they overlook that Meggan specifically (if subconsciously) picked her form to push all of Brian's buttons.

Brian and Meggan become closer, and eventually become a couple. When Brian temporarily quits being Captain Britain Meggan follows him on his trip into Europe. There they encounter Baba Yaga. Meggan's powers get in sync with her magics and Brian finds himself kissing a freak lizard version of his new girlfriend...
Again, a little out of sync. The Warpies move in, their caretakers, the spies of RCX having played on Betsy's good heart to be allowed to do so. Brian finds sharing his home with dozens, perhaps hundreds of children (and mutated children at that) somewhat stressful - he's never liked sharing his personal space with strangers. Since he's not amenable to RCX's plans to make him their puppet, they leak info about his brother's criminal activities to Dr. Crocodile, and implicate Brian in Jamie's crimes. Sure enough, Doc Croc lures Brian to Africa to rescue his brother, and Meggan chooses to go along with him. In Africa Brian learns of his brother's depravity, and Doc Croc learns Brian was innocent. Before departing, Brian and Meggan kiss, beginning their romance. They decide not to return to the crowded Braddock Manor just yet, and Brian takes Meggan on a lengthy trip round the world - not just Europe. He is still Captain Britain at this time. Shortly after the Baba Yaga incident they return home, and Brian learns RCX convinced Betsy to replace him while he was gone - at that point Brian quits. He and Meggan spend several months together before Betsy is brutally assaulted by Slaymaster; Brian comes to her rescue and afterwards resumes being Captain Britain.

[david r]

Most US readers first came in contact with Captain Britain and Meggan in those Uncanny and New Mutants annuals. Those annuals followed on directly from the end of the 80s Captain Britain series, which was ended in part due to CC's want to reclaim the characters for a US book. CC originally pitched a new Captain Britain ongoing. Marvel were not so interested in a book which was ONLY Captain Britain, and after a bit of negotiation the project became a British team book.

Excalibur was born.

(Although earlier versions of the pitch had Cap and Kitty Pryde as a couple, had Colossus on the team, and Longshot, too. That changed after Fall of the Mutants took more shape as a story ).

What I've researched is the Kitty/Captain Britain flirting would come after the Mutant Massacre . Chris Claremont had initially planned when the X-Men and the surviving Morlocks travel to Muir Island for protection, Captain Britain would be included. (Presumably, because his sister has joined the mutants.) While there, Kitty Pryde would start flirting with the muscular Captain and a source of tension between Kitty and Colossus. Whether this would lead to an actual love affair between Brian and Kitty I do not know. But I suspect the Mutant Massacre and Muir Isle plot was meant to lead to the Captain Britain ongoing. But Marvel passed on it.

On a personal note, am really looking forward to people's thoughts on Excalibur. I hope to buy the Captain Britain Omnibus when it (eventually) is released so I can immerse myself on Cap's past stories. Which I am woefully ignorant of. I want to correct that. :smile:

[limerick]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30219216364.1.GIF

Excalibur--Special Edition 1987

"The Sword is Drawn"

Claremont/Davis

Due to the double length of this book I will be summarizing it in 2 parts

Part 2-----pages 26-48

London:The room quickly clears of party guests when The Warwolves arrive leaving Pheonix to face them alone.Although she cannot affect them with her telekinetic power directly,as it slips off them,she can hurl objects within the room at them and she does this with some success.She uses the chains that had been use to contain her to divert the attack of another Warwolve hurling him through the wall.She follows him using the new 'exit' to escape and is shocked to find herself emerging into Central London and not a MOJO-World soundstage.

She flees down to the nearest Underground station and boards a Tube just as a Warwolve arrives behind her.The Warwolve misses the train but jumps onto the outside and breaks in to get at Pheonix but in an awesome display of her power she disintegrates the section of the train and the Warwolve is sent flying backwards onto the Tube line.He is instantly electrocuted!The train continues despite the damage and the other passengers look at Rachel with fear of her power.Meanwhile the other 5 Warwolves find their slain comrade and unison emit a loud howl of sorrow.This is heard by The Technet who are on the roof of The Post Office Tower.Snee says he can sense Pheonix nearby.....

Captain Britain and Meggan's Lighthouse:A shadowy figure throws an unconcious Captain Britain into the sea in the dark of night.CB immediately wakens and rushes into the house to face his foe.It turns out to be Nightcrawler who had thrown him in to sober him up,knowing he was in no real danger.Over coffoe Nightcrawler explains what happened previously.When he returned to the house after teleporting away from The Technet,Kitty,Meggan and The Technet were gone.He had traced CB from the files on Muir Isle and had travelled to him looking for help.But now seeing the state CB is in,Nightcrawler is annoyed.Doesn't he care about his missing girlfriend?!

CB says to save them is pointless as they will just end up dying anyway like The X-Men.Nightcrawler is annoyed he is giving up so easily and leaves telling him he will never give up.CB collapses distraught,haunted by the memory of a previous death experience where he died but was resurrected.

London:Rachel walks down a lonely,foggy London street at night She is considering her options.She wants to return to The X-Men but is unsure how they will accept her.But she has nowhere else to go.As she looks in a shop window at Aurthurian memerobilia she notices the reflection of strange figures in the window.......The Technet!But she reacts too late and is swallowed by Bodybag.As The Technet prepare to leave they are suddenly faced by The Warwolves who are not giving up Rachel so easily!

They begin to fight unaware they are being watched by Nightcrawler,who had located Rachel with a mini-cerebro and waited for Gatecrasherand The Technet to show up.Although he would prefer to leave them fight it out he is worried Kitty and Meggan may be injured in the battle so he tries taking on Bodybag.A Warwolf trying to hit him rips Bodybag's bodysacs freeing the 3 trapped prisoners.Just when the battle seems to be going against them CB arrives to help but after much fighting there is a three-way stalemate with all groups taking some punishment.Gatecrasher has had enough when Dollface accidently shrinks her and she orders Snee to teleport them away.The Warwolves have also had enough,their numbers being depleted by one more and one of them left a fraction of their normal size by Dollface.They retreat into the London sewerage system.

While Meggan and CB embrace passionately,Rachel has an emotional reunion with Kurt and Kitty.

Night-time,The Scottish Highlands:The 5 new friends surround a campfire listening to old tales of The X-men.When CB and Meggan get up to leave ,Rachel asks them if that's it.She contemplates to the others that just because the X-Men are dead,does that mean Prof. Xavier's dream has to die.When Kitty asks does she mean they should continue as X-men ,she instead suggests they adapt the legend of King Arthur where they would become like Knights of old to preserve Xavier's dream.Excalibur was a symbol of hope just like they would become.

The 5 new team-mates link arms facing a new future.........

[sherlockbones]

i love the technet!
why are they not around anymore?

[limerick]

i love the technet!
why are they not around anymore?
I'm sure they may turn up in CB&M13.......eventually!They were pretty cool.

[Loki]

Excalibur--Special Edition 1987

He lashes out at Meggan when she tries to comfort him,calling her a "changling cow".

Really need to step in here, because this misreading is a common one, and one of the things that coloured American fans belief that Brian was abusive to Meggan. Even though drunk and verbally abusive (which, despite the grief, remains out of order on his part), he doesn't lash out at her. He lashes out at himself - or rather, his helmet. Look at the panel - he throws his bottle away from Meggan and directly at his helment. He's just been decrying himself for supposedly being a hero, yet being unable to save his sister, and he lashes out at the symbol of his hero career, his Captain Britain helmet. He's wallowing in self-loathing, and doesn't want to hear that there was no way he could have helped Betsy - the person he is truly angry with is himself, and apart from the name calling, he directs all his anger at himself.

[limerick]

Sorry,Loki,I had meant verbally abusive.I should have said that.He is certainly aggressive and verbally abusive(not nice!)but most definitely NOT physically abusive.

[Loki]

CB collapses distraught,haunted by the memory of a previous near-death experience where he was sure he would die.


Probably not clear from the text, but it wasn't near death - he did die. Incinerated, body burned to ashes, only a single bone, a lock of hair and a scrap of his costume remained. Merlyn and Roma resurrected him from those. And that was Brian's second death.

[limerick]

Unfortunately,when summarising it is impossible to include all details otherwise a summary could take hours but this is an important point---Brian is not a physical bully---although as is often shown later he can be an emotional one.

[Loki]

Sorry,Loki,I had meant verbally abusive.I sould have said that.He is certainly aggressive and verbally abusive(not nice!)but most definitely NOT physically abusive.

S'okay. Your synopses is pretty good, but that particular scene has so often been misread and then held against Brian, I just had to clarify it, especially after a recent thread that tried to portray Brian as a violent, drunken pseudo-child abuser based on some wildly inaccurate misremembering of his relationship with Meggan.

[limerick]

Probably not clear from the text, but it wasn't near death - he did die. Incinerated, body burned to ashes, only a single bone, a lock of hair and a scrap of his costume remained. Merlyn and Roma resurrected him from those. And that was Brian's second death.
Again, to mention that he died before would then involve expanding further so I chose to describe it as a "near-death" experience.This is not the correct description--you are correct! It is clear in the comic that he did actually die.Again slight mis-use of the wrong word giving the wrong meaning--sorry about that.

[limerick]

S'okay. Your synopses is pretty good, but that particular scene has so often been misread and then held against Brian, I just had to clarify it, especially after a recent thread that tried to portray Brian as a violent, drunken pseudo-child abuser based on some wildly inaccurate misremembering of his relationship with Meggan.
Will pay particular attention to CB details in future!.Would not like to see him getting a raw deal.He's a very complex character--so different from your usual square-jawed hero because of his many character defects.

[limerick]

Just to say input such as clear details from Loki and TSID is very much appreciated.I don't think there are as many knowledgable Excalibur fans as there are X-men fans so I hope you will keep contributing.Your knowledge will give everyone a better understanding of the series.

I have altered the 2 passages mentioned above.

[creaky]

i love the technet!
why are they not around anymore?

I second this!

And Kurt needs to throw people into the ocean more often. I assume that he was as angry with himself in that scene as with CB, for his own funk pre-coma. He doesn't consider himself worthy to be the one left alive. This is where he starts getting re-built, as he now has to live up to his potential, because there's no one stronger around to do what needs to be done. So he starts the issue being as careless as he was before the Massacre and ends it taking out the Technet through well-planned strategy. It's definitely one of the most important issues in the history of the character.

Now someone needs to post the scene where Joyboy turns Kitty obese!

[Samanthab]

excalibur is good but I still want to read xmen :frown:

[The Sword Is Drawn]

i love the technet!
why are they not around anymore?

They haven't been seen in quite a while. Claremont used them briefly on Fantastic Four, if I recall rightly, but outside of Captain Britain and the original Excalibur they haven't really appeared aside from that. It is a bit of a shame. I suppose there is the possibility they may show up on CB&MI13 at some point, but at present that title is not really dealing with the multiverse as much as Cap stories have done in the past. And the Technet are quite multiversal.

I'd love to see them show up in eXiles at some point. I'm surprised we haven't seen them in past incarnations, to be honest, but it does seem to be an approach taken by most writers on eXiles to avoid previous multiversal characters (No Captain britain Corps, no Merlyn, no Death's Head, no Technet...) where possible and forge there own path. Something which I actually think has created more confusion over the years, as we now have three very distinct interpretations of the multiverse from eXiles which don't quite match up.

But that's a discussion for another thread... :biggrin:

Really need to step in here, because this misreading is a common one, and one of the things that coloured American fans belief that Brian was abusive to Meggan. Even though drunk and verbally abusive (which, despite the grief, remains out of order on his part), he doesn't lash out at her. He lashes out at himself - or rather, his helmet. Look at the panel - he throws his bottle away from Meggan and directly at his helment. He's just been decrying himself for supposedly being a hero, yet being unable to save his sister, and he lashes out at the symbol of his hero career, his Captain Britain helmet. He's wallowing in self-loathing, and doesn't want to hear that there was no way he could have helped Betsy - the person he is truly angry with is himself, and apart from the name calling, he directs all his anger at himself.

I'm glad you brought it up, Loki. Because you explain this subject far clearer than I've managed in the past. It is very often misinterpreted. The image is clear enough to me, but then I'd read the run which came before these issues and knew the characters before I read Excalibur. If I hadn't been aware of Captain Britain as the national hero (As many readers coming to this series for the first time did not) and the burden which he bares being Captain Britain I suppose I could just see a guy drinking, throwing stuff about, and shouting at his girlfriend.

On a surface level that might be understandable.

I do think, and I'm sure we'll get into this more as Limerick and David continue through the series, that Claremont and Davis did perhaps rely a little too much on the assumption that readers HAD read Captain Britain prior to Excalibur, in some places. There isn't always as much of an introduction to characters, for new readers, as might have been preferable. It never really gets in the way, but it does mean that readers who had read Cap's pre-Excalibur appearances did have a slightly different experience through that prior knowledge.

Unfortunately,when summarising it is impossible to include all details otherwise a summary could take hours but this is an important point---Brian is not a physical bully---although as is often shown later he can be an emotional one.

We'll get to that in time. I don't personally agree with that last statement, but when we reach the issues in question there's plenty room for discussion on that.

excalibur is good but I still want to read xmen :frown:

Well, you can do both. They're far from mutually exclusive.:biggrin:

[Bingo!]

Steven F, jarrod, 10 demerits to both your houses! It's your responsibility to inform me of such an amazing thread!

david r and limerick, you have my unending gratitude for this ...from the Beginning.

I begin reading tomorrow!

[DungeonmasterJim]

I always wondered wear Rachel got that nifty sleeve fringed coat she scrounged up to call her own. It was a neat jacket.

And the red, spikey, stilettoed Hound costume is still awesome to this day.

DM Jim

[Nevets F]

Steven F, jarrod, 10 demerits to both your houses! It's your responsibility to inform me of such an amazing thread!

david r and limerick, you have my unending gratitude for this ...from the Beginning.

I begin reading tomorrow!

I apologize from the bottom of my heart and soul. In my defense, we never talk anymore though! Mr Busypants.

[jarrod]

I apologize from the bottom of my heart and soul. In my defense, we never talk anymore though! Mr Busypants.
I'm just lazy. :(

Moar Technet!!!!

[limerick]

I always wondered wear Rachel got that nifty sleeve fringed coat she scrounged up to call her own. It was a neat jacket.

And the red, spikey, stilettoed Hound costume is still awesome to this day.

DM Jim
I think Davis's drawing of Rachel is awesome----it's the best she's ever looked(his Excaibur run).Where did she get that jacket?---good question!

[jarrod]

Davis not only gave us the definitive Rachel visual, but the definitive Phoenix visual too imo. The raptor manifestation as an extension of Rachel's own body was genius (flaming mullet and all <3 <3), and honestly the Phoenix has never looked better.

[FanboyStranger]

Early in the 1990s, there was an insert ad in certain comics for upcoming X-related projects. (There was also one for the 'Siege of Darkness' crossover, and possibly more.) One of the teasers was for a Technet mini-series with an image from Dwayne Turner (I'm assuming it would have been written by Alan Davis, the Technet having played a significant role in his second run on Excalibur.) As far as I know, this mini never appeared, but I've always wonndered about it. Does anyone have any information about what happened with this series?

I love the Technet. They are so goofy.

[Nevets F]

Davis not only gave us the definitive Rachel visual, but the definitive Phoenix visual too imo. The raptor manifestation as an extension of Rachel's own body was genius (flaming mullet and all <3 <3), and honestly the Phoenix has never looked better.

This is all totally true.

[david r]

Feast your eyes on the Technet!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7b/Technet.jpeg/378px-Technet.jpeg

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/c/c6/Technet_01.jpg

[Nevets F]

Feast your eyes on the Technet!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7b/Technet.jpeg/378px-Technet.jpeg

I always like Scatterbrain best.

[david r]

Gatecrasher

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/5/55/Gatecrasher_01.JPG

[Dagger]

I always like Scatterbrain best.
We must be joined at the hip, cuz she was totally my favorite too!

[The Sword Is Drawn]

People are watching US, Mother!!

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/5/55/Gatecrasher_01.JPG

[limerick]

They're all just so weird..in a cool way!Love their original powers too.Whose seen anything like Bodybag before?

[Nevets F]

We must be joined at the hip, cuz she was totally my favorite too!

lol, that's cause we rock Dagger.

[Dagger]

lol, that's cause we rock Dagger.

We so do! What issue is your favorite Excalibur comic?

[david r]

Page 2 & 3 of the Excalibur Special Edition #1

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/pages/30219216364.1.P2.GIF

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/pages/30219216364.1.P3.GIF

[creaky]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/pages/30219216364.1.P3.GIF

The image of Logan getting his nails done is almost enough to make up for the sight of Longshot.

Almost.

[Cub]

Check out Dazz copping a feel though! LOL.

[Nevets F]

We so do! What issue is your favorite Excalibur comic?

One issue out of 125, plus specials, annuals, etc?!?

I don't know that I could think of just one.

Some favorites were in the 40's, leading up to 50. Also later when Davis had 9 members (Feron, Micromax, etc)...also, since I LOVE Amanda Sefton, I liked some of her issues for the simple fact she was there...and I loved some stuff during the later issues, when the team was more of an X-Men team.

[limerick]

Thoughts on Excalibur Special Edition 1987:

--At last Excalibur is here!Thanks to The Sword is Drawn for putting me straight on Claremont creating Captain Britain.I only have a few of his Marvel U.K. appearances and for some reason I thought he had been created in the U.K..It would explain what I always felt was a disproportionate interest by Claremont in the character----the fact he created him would explain that!

--It's great having Kitty, Kurt and Rachel back in action.They have basically been in character limbo for 2 years waiting for Claremont's new project(Excalibur)to come on line.It's only when Kitty was back that I realised how great a character she was.I was surprised that Claremont left her go from Uncanny.I always say her as his "Cyclops" and I thought she would be part of the X-men as long as he was on board--I was wrong(again!)

--Davis and Neary's art is amazing.Davis has such a unique ability to create new characters.They all(e.g.The Technet)have such a detailed appearance.It's not just a case of him cobbling together another bunch of super-powered beings--some serious work has gone into what they look like and why.Good work Fella!

--Also the little details Davis throws in are fantastic.Like when Gateway turns up on Muir Isle.As she enters the door she's so large she splinters the door-frame.It's such a subtle detail but typical of Davis.One thing I've noticed about Davis is if he's running a deadline the detail is the thing to suffer.His main characters look as good as ever but the little touches go.So he's always at his best when he's had time on an issue like this one.Class.

--Oal Luna Saturnyne & Emma Frost ---seperated at birth or the same plastic surgeon?

--The Warwolves are very menacing.I remember when I first read them I found them very threatening despite being done with a bit of humour.

--This Special Edition was published several months before the ongoing started.I've always wondered why it wasn't just issue #1 of the ongoing.Did Marvel want to see how the public would react to a British based team before they green-lighted an ongoing series?That would explain why this wasn't #1 and the time gap between this and the ongoing series.Does anyone know if this is true?

--As I mentioned before Cap. Britain is really one of my favourite characters.Claremont gives him real humanity by having flaws like the rest of us.Drink problems,fedelity problems,relationship problems,Authority problems,Jealousy problems----Cap. Briitain's got them all.But somehow it makes him seem all the more heroic when he always comes through in the end.Cap--we love you!

--Is it just me or are Rachel's ears very pointy on the cover.With Nightcrawler and Meggan(as well as Lockheed)this ear thing could be a team trait!

--As already mentioned,Rachel looks so hot here--Davis is Rachel king.You've got to be an active gym member to wear an outfit that tight.She comfortably carries it off but manages to turn quite a few heads during Davis' run.

--Creaky,I love when Joyboy 'fats up' Kitty too.She looks so happy.:biggrin:

--I hadn't read this in a while and one thing that jumps out at me is that it's Rachel who is responsible for forming the team and coming up with the Excalibur theme.I wouldn't have thought that would have been the case.I would have thought Cap. Britain would have come up the Arthurian link and that maybe Kitty would have brought the team together.But in fact those 2 are the last to agree to the idea.--Actually the back cover has just answered a question I posed just there.Widget's on the back cover so Claremont/Davis must aleady have had plans for a new series i.e.the new series must have been greenlighted.Just speculating,mind.

--What is it with Marvel's fascination with getting Rogue naked--check out the butt floss that is her swim suit!

--Very little Lockheed here.

--Okay,thats thoughts on Special Edition 1987 done.I'm off to the nailbar to get me a Wolverine!:biggrin:

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Thanks to The Sword is Drawn for putting me straight on Claremont creating Captain Britain.I only have a few of his Marvel U.K. appearances and for some reason I thought he had been created in the U.K..It would explain what I always felt was a disproportionate interest by Claremont in the character----the fact he created him would explain that!

He was created in the UK, Limerick. But up until 1994 Marvel had a US office, which put out original Marvel content, almost all of which is part of mainstream Marvel continuity. Captain Britain's a good example of that. Claremont created him, yes, but he was still part of the greater Marvel Universe. Claremont event brought over Dai Thomas (Who we'll see more of later) a Welsh police detective he created for a London based Blade story in Tomb of Dracula over to Captain Britain.

Davis and Neary's art is amazing.Davis has such a unique ability to create new characters.They all(e.g.The Technet)have such a detailed appearance.It's not just a case of him cobbling together another bunch of super-powered beings--some serious work has gone into what they look like and why.Good work Fella!

I'd totally agree. Davis is an artist who can literally draw ANYTHING. And incredibly well, too.

Not everybody stateside knows of course, that aside from being a brilliant inker Neary was also Editor-in-Chief of Marvel UK, and was in part responsible for introducing guys like Carlos Pacheco, Jim Cheung and Salvador Larroca to Marvel via Marvel UK.

The Technet, though, were Captain Britain characters. They have strong ties (And shared members in the case of Fascination) with a team called 'the Special Executive'. That team is no longer really able to be used by Marvel, because they were created for Doctor Who Monthly, back when Marvel comics owned the Doctor Who license.

The Technet are in some ways a replacement. They too are mercenaries/bounty-hunters. They first appeared in Captain Britain (Vol2) #4, where they are involved with the first story featuring Sat-yr-9.

(Note: That story will be collected in the Captain Britain Omnibus out in a couple of months. That story has obvious connections to Excalibur, as both sets of characters feature here. )

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/2396/technet.jpg

There, Gatecrasher's crew are sent to retrieve an alternate Captain Britain who has jumped ship from his own dimension, and fled to Earth 616. On his Earth Sat-yr-9 is the supreme rule, of a huge fascist regime. But when the Technet arrive they find two Captains, ours and the alternate. Both Captains fight, and our Brian loses. The result is that our Brian gets taken away by the Technet, while the alternate Brian pretends to be him - in order not to have to go back...

Brian does eventually get home, but in the meantime his alternate (Who goes by the name of Kaptain Briton on his world) has tried to rape Psylocke. Her psi-blast literally fries his brain, killing him.

It is over this event which leads Sat-yr-9 to go searching for revenge on the Braddocks in Excalibur.

Opal Luna Saturnyne & Emma Frost ---seperated at birth or the same plastic surgeon?

Ha ha. Yeah, there are some similarities with the more modern depiction of Emma, I'll grant you.

And here it is probably worth pointing out to folks that Opal Luna Saturnyne and the despot Sat-yr-9 are not the same person.

A little confusing, I know. Saturnyne lives in Otherworld working for Roma. Sat-yr-9 is an alternative universe version of her, from another universe.

Saturnyne is mostly a good guy.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6625/saturnye.jpg

Sat-yr-9 is very much not. :biggrin:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5445/satyr92.jpg

This Special Edition was published several months before the ongoing started.I've always wondered why it wasn't just issue #1 of the ongoing.Did Marvel want to see how the public would react to a British based team before they green-lighted an ongoing series?That would explain why this wasn't #1 and the time gap between this and the ongoing series.Does anyone know if this is true?

That could have been part of the reason. Although, The New Mutants graphic novel had the same treatment before the series began.

As I mentioned before Cap. Britain is really one of my favourite characters.Claremont gives him real humanity by having flaws like the rest of us.Drink problems,fedelity problems,relationship problems,Authority problems,Jealousy problems----Cap. Briitain's got them all.But somehow it makes him seem all the more heroic when he always comes through in the end.Cap--we love you!

Amen. We do.

[limerick]

TSID,thankyou so much for that.I have the issue your first art piece is from---I had forgotten Jackdaw!I wasn't going to bother getting the Captain Britain omnibus but I'm missing so much about him ,I think I might now.

I'm sure my original Marvel Superheroes(U.K.) was in Black-and White.This must be from a U.S. reprint.I know C.B.'s stories were reprinted a few times previously, after Excalibur came out.Is this art by Davis alone--i.e.no Neary inking.It's amazing how raw it looks,slightly unfinished compared to his Marvel(U.S.) work.The second clip with Sat-ur-9 looks tidier--was Neary inking at that stage?

Thanks for the brilliant info--The Saturnyne/Sat-ur-9---scenario has really been cleared up for me!

[Cub]

Had Courtney Ross appeared in the Captain Britain UK comic before? And, if so, was her resemblance to Sat-yr-9 (and Satyrnine) touched upon?

[worstblogever]

Had Courtney Ross appeared in the Captain Britain UK comic before? And, if so, was her resemblance to Sat-yr-9 (and Satyrnine) touched upon?

Well...
I'm not sure in which issue it's revealed, but Courtney Ross is the 616 Equivalent of both characters. Going with the SPOILER tags in case it's revealed in one of the upcoming Excalibur issues.

[Cub]

Right, but what I'm saying is, was she just around as a random character before, and then Excalibur began, and Claremont was like, "you know what would be interesting...?"

Is there a spoiler button? God I feel like a little old lady trying to program a vcr.

[Loki]

Had Courtney Ross appeared in the Captain Britain UK comic before? And, if so, was her resemblance to Sat-yr-9 (and Satyrnine) touched upon?

Yes, she was part of his supporting cast from the early issues of his original series (#3 on), though there was no real resemblance to Saturnyne - that part is a retcon.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/rosscourtney.htm

[david r]

Here are some interesting quotes from Excalibur artist Alan Davis. Enjoy!

Was he an X-Men fan growing up?

Alan Davis: On and off. Most of the Kirby stuff was gripping, but the book was patchy after he left--then Neal Adams took over and I was addicted. I couldn't imagine any other artist drawing the book thereafter, so I didn't expect to enjoy the title's return, but Dave Cockrum's art was inviting and exciting and then the Byrne/Claremont issues just kept getting better. The 'Dark Phoenix' arc was the last time I ever counted the days waiting for the next issue of a comic.

How Alan broke into the comics business:

Alan Davis I sent a sketch to Mike Conroy. He liked it and introduced me to Paul Neary [then Editor-in-Chief of Marvel UK], who was looking for creators who would work for peanuts, because Marvel UK was primarily a reprint house and there was no real budget for originating new work.

On how he began drawing X-Men comics:

Alan Davis I had been working for DC Comics for a few months when Chris Claremont phoned and asked if I'd like to work on X-MEN. I declined because I didn't want to quit on DC so soon after starting. I was also very conscious that I was very new to the business and still learning the basics of drawing and storytelling. I was more than a little intimidated by the amazing work John Byrne had done on X-MEN and didn't think my work would survive the comparison. Chris kept in touch and regularly offered me X-Men work so, when I eventually quit Detective Comics , I agreed to do the X-Annuals.

To add to this, I've learned that while Alan was working at DC Comics, he really wanted to draw Aquaman. Alan was passionate about Aquaman, but DC Comics seemed little interested in Davis drawing the undersea hero, and instead told him to continue on his Batman work. Their star character, and Alan became somewhat disillusioned his input and desires were glossed over. At that moment, Chris Claremont began contacting Davis about the regular artistic job on Uncanny X-Men. As Alan says above, he was intimidated by the thought. However, Chris was calling him more often than DC was. Finally, Alan left DC Comics and drew several mutant Annuals from 1986-87. Which then lead to Excalibur.

How did Alan and Claremont come up with the concept for Excalibur ?

Alan Davis It was Chris' idea. I was very much the junior partner.

[david r]

The core idea of Excalibur, in Alan Davis' opinion:

The way it was explained to me was that it would be the X-book with humour and British quirkiness, which our editor, Ann Nocenti, was sure I could supply. I didn't exert any influence to have Captain Britain and Meggan join the X-Men. I suspect the main motivation for absorbing the Captain Britain mythology into the X-Universe came from Chris. The fact the series utilised so many concepts and characters I had designed or co-created made Excalibur a far less stressful venture than another X-Men title would have been for me. It was almost as if I was continuing to draw the CAPTAIN BRITAIN series with a couple of X-Men guest stars.

How closely did Davis and Claremont work together?

Davis: I was sent plots and was rarely involved in pre-plot decisions. The only definite exception was Excalibur #14, which was based on a plot I propsed at Marvel UK. Chris' plots were a sort of dense stream-of-consciousness that didn't suggest page layouts or visual specifics, but were always filled with character, motivation and story. The visual potential was there but in a freeform way that allowed the artist room to develop or expand. It took me a few issues to figure that out.

Here is quote from writer Chris Claremont, about the origins of Excalibur!

Chris Claremont: We needed another book, and more importantly we wanted to find something for Alan Davis to do. We wanted to lure him over to Marvel and lock him in place. I needed another book and felt both of us had gotten screwed on CAPTAIN BRITAIN. I created him with Herb Trimpe, and Alan, along with Alan Moore, had made him sort of a success and neither of us got anything out of it. Anyway, we wanted to find something that Alan was really interested in, and we wanted to do something that we weren't doing in X-MEN or NEW MUTANTS. X-MEN was sort of grim and gritty and I thought it would be fun to do a cosmic comedy caper book. No deep philosophy, just more fun than you can shake a stick at. You know, outer space, cross-time, big romance, big characters. Also, we had more X-Men than we could fit in the book and we need to find somewhere for them to go. Nightcrawler was at a loose end, Kitty Pryde likewise. It was use 'em or lose 'em.

[limerick]

David,as always, you're a fountain of knowledge.I have a mental picture of you sitting in a room with a computer and shelves and shelves of comic book encyclopedias!!!

[david r]

David,as always, you're a fountain of knowledge.I have a mental picture of you sitting in a room with a computer and shelves and shelves of comic book encyclopedias!!!

You're not far off. I have many shelves of comics, novels, and the like stacked in several rooms. While some comics lay in boxes in my attic. Others are still in office boxes taken from work, laying about. To the left of my computer, is one high shelf which holds several books and magazines, many related to X-Men. For research purposes, and just learning the "behind the scenes" stuff which I find fascinating. To the right of this is a fan, and the left of it is my guitar amp.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

TSID,thankyou so much for that.I have the issue your first art piece is from---I had forgotten Jackdaw!I wasn't going to bother getting the Captain Britain omnibus but I'm missing so much about him ,I think I might now.

Sadly, as far as we currently know, the Omnibus won't be including Jackdaw's debut. That happened in the Steve Parkhouse Black Knight and Captain Britain stories which he did for the UK Hulk Comic. Those are, however, being reprinted in the UK by Marvel's European reprints distributors (Panini Comics), as part of their ongoing volumes of Cap's very earliest appearances.

isbn 978-1-84653-401-0

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Captain-Britain-Vol-3-Lion-Spider/dp/1846534011/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240052577&sr=1-1

I'm sure my original Marvel Superheroes(U.K.) was in Black-and White.This must be from a U.S. reprint.

The scan has been cleaned up, but the graining colours bely my having scanned it from the Davis and Delano 'Before Excalibur... Captain Britain' trade, with it's slightly grainy 80s paper stock, which came out around the time of Excalibur's launch. My copies of Marvel Superheroes are a bit patchy, I'm afraid. Couldn't get my newsagent to hold a regular order back in those days. He kept on missing issues for me. Loki reminded me recently that they were in black and white, originally. I have this trade from the time it came out and had largely forgotten that it was in B&W before.

I know C.B.'s stories were reprinted a few times previously, after Excalibur came out.Is this art by Davis alone--i.e.no Neary inking.It's amazing how raw it looks,slightly unfinished compared to his Marvel(U.S.) work.The second clip with Sat-ur-9 looks tidier--was Neary inking at that stage?

The Technet pic was coloured by Stuart Place for the later trade. And I'd agree, it does look raw. But then it was originally a black and white image, from a strip Davis was turning out weekly. I assume he probably was inking himself, as I can't find a credit for a specific inker. I could be wrong. The man truly is one of the finest talents in the business, but he is completely self-taught and was still finding his true style at this point. The stuff he did with Delano actually does look far more advanced than the earlier stuff he did with Thorpe and Moore. You can see an artist building in confidence and style.

The Sat-yr-9 image too was originally B&W, coloured by Place for the trade, in the same manner. The Saturnyne image, on the other hand, was B&W originally, but that scan is from X-Men Archives: Captain Britain which reprinted the Thorpe/Moore/Davis 'Jaspers Warp' storyline as a limited series in the mid-90s. Davis touched up some of the art himself for that series, changing a few panels he was never happy with. Colours are credited as being courtesy of Helen Nally.

Thanks for the brilliant info--The Saturnyne/Sat-ur-9---scenario has really been cleared up for me!

It is a bit complex that one, without having read Captain Britain. Saturnyne was a character who Captain Britain fans knew pretty well from Cap's stories with her around parts of the multiverse - and a bit of a will they/won't they possibility of of a love/hate romance. Cap even did his best to save her when she was put on trial because of what had happened in the early parts of the Jaspers' Warp storyline.

When Sat-yr-9 turned up, as a twisted alternate universe version of Saturnyne, it was all pretty clear. But for a lot of Excalibur fans they simply hadn't read those stories to know that information. I do think it is a slight failing on Claremont's part not to have clarified things a little bit better. But I don't think it really detracts too much from people enjoying the stories.

Had Courtney Ross appeared in the Captain Britain UK comic before? And, if so, was her resemblance to Sat-yr-9 (and Satyrnine) touched upon?

As Loki says, that was a retcon. And it began at the start of this series. Here is Courtney in her first Claremont penned appearance in Captain Britain (Vol1) #3:

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/5678/cbiss3courtney.jpg

As you can see, very different. A deliberate red-head. She was designed to Brian's Mary-Jane (The original Captain being far more modelled on the Spider-man archetype). It's in her first Excalibur appearance where she states that she stop dying her hair red.

[Daithi]

Ooh my new favourite thread. Congrats david r and limerick!

What I love about how Excalibur's formation was that it was borne out of a sense of loss for all characters. The loss of the X-Men, loss of memories, of family, of love and mutant ability. Gives them a sense of purpose that helped the story right from the start.

[Dagger]

When this series first started, I thought Captain Britain was a freakin' jackass. Sure, I understood his twin sister had just died, but he was just an ass to Meggan. I felt bad for her. But her total co-dependence on Brian paying attention to her, got real old real fast. My faves were Kitty and Ray. Ray in Excalibur was leagues better than her stint in Uncanny as Phoenix. She wasn't all it's not right! It's not fair! Wah wah wah. It's too bad that's what we got since her return.

[Cub]

Alan Davis never had formal training?? Unbeweaveable.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Alan Davis never had formal training?? Unbeweaveable.

Seriously. He is self-taught. Which is freaking amazing in anybody's book.

[Aelle3]

I love how Davis comes across so down to earth and modest, I don’t think Excalibur could have asked for anything better.

[Tobias March]

Seriously. He is self-taught. Which is freaking amazing in anybody's book.

I'm curious that he doesn't appear to mention DR and Quinch.

Or Miracleman for goodness sake.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I'm curious that he doesn't appear to mention DR and Quinch.

Or Miracleman for goodness sake.

He doesn't talk about Miracleman for a very good reason. When Warrior folded and Marvelman (renamed Miracleman) was sold to Eclipse Comics Davis' work was reprinted. He has never received any payment for this - despite owning a creative stake in the character. They believed that they had the right to print it gratis, he considers it theft of his work. It was part of his falling out with Alan Moore.

It's not that he won't talk about it, but understandably doesn't want to talk about it. Especially after what happened with his interview for the Miracleman Companion:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?id=567&page=article

[kk1]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30219216364.1.GIF

Excalibur--Special Edition 1987

!


Man I loved this book(I think I have 3 copies), it was my favorite X-book at the time. The stories and writing were great and Alan Davis just blew me away. He's was the best monthly artist ever. He drew the definative Rachel/Phoenix and was the only one who could make Kitty look good in that outfit, loved his Nightcrawler too. (and I know she's not in the book but Betsy too) It was always such a letdown when he skipped and issue.

If anyone else likes this they should track down the Captain Britain TPB it's just as good and you'll appreciate Captain Britain a lot more (and his sister as well).
Though I always found it ironic that Brian and Betsy became so linked to the X-books since neither of them are mutants. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but if I remember correctly their mother was human but their father was an alien or from another dimension or something and they got their powers from him.

[kk1]

Page 2 & 3 of the Excalibur Special Edition #1


http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/pages/30219216364.1.P3.GIF



It's the details that just make Davis' work awesome. The kanji on Wolverine's book are even right. :smile:

[The Sword Is Drawn]

If anyone else likes this they should track down the Captain Britain TPB it's just as good and you'll appreciate Captain Britain a lot more (and his sister as well).Though I always found it ironic that Brian and Betsy became so linked to the X-books since neither of them are mutants.

Welcome aboard, KK1. And yes, technically you are correct. None of the Braddock siblings were originally mutants.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but if I remember correctly their mother was human but their father was an alien or from another dimension or something and they got their powers from him.

Not exactly an alien, no. But it does appear likely that Sir James Braddock was a native of Otherworld, kind of similar to other characters such as Merlyn & Roma, Oberon or The Green Knight - all of whom are magical entities. Brian and Betsy's powers were claimed to have come not from mutation but inherited from their father's Otherworld genes.

[Aelle3]

I really like the lighter pastel style colouring of the first issue in the trade, i sort of wish it didn’t change to the more block colouring but oh well. I just reread the first few issues and they are still brilliant.

[david r]

Stunning and beautiful:

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/0/03/Excalibur_Team.jpg

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Stunning and beautiful:

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/0/03/Excalibur_Team.jpg

Absolutely. Davis did some great standalone Excalibur pieces during this period.

Of course Arthur never played any direct role in the series... but it looks bloody great.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

This was, I believe, a con sketch Davis did. But it just goes to show why Rachel on Excalibur was pretty much THE ultimate Phoenix, in my book:

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/797/phoenixq.jpg

[worstblogever]

It's the details that just make Davis' work awesome. The kanji on Wolverine's book are even right. :smile:

The idea of Wolverine, famous for his claws, getting a manicure is hilarious.

[Imraith Nimphais]

We must be joined at the hip, cuz she was totally my favorite too!

...and mine as well...we are Siamese Triplets...:biggrin:

[limerick]

This was, I believe, a con sketch Davis did. But it just goes to show why Rachel on Excalibur was pretty much THE ultimate Phoenix, in my book:

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/797/phoenixq.jpg
God that's beautiful---Davis=Genius

[limerick]

RE :NEXT ISSUE SUMMARY

I'm just waiting until the other X-books are up chronologically with Excalibur.The special edition came out quite a few months before #1 of the ongoing.Should be a couple of weeks but might come in a little early with this summary,I'm looking foward to re-reading it so much.

[Imraith Nimphais]

And I, for 1, cannot wait for this to start...luvluvluvluv CC and AD's Excalibur...I agree with most everything that has been said in previous posts concerning the art and writing and might I add, Storm looks the unltimate DIVA in that 1st page spread.

[kk1]

This was, I believe, a con sketch Davis did. But it just goes to show why Rachel on Excalibur was pretty much THE ultimate Phoenix, in my book:



Agreed, and thanks for the pic. :smile:

[limerick]

I'm curious that he doesn't appear to mention DR and Quinch.

Or Miracleman for goodness sake.
D.R. & Quinch----there's a blast from the past!Was that Davis?It's so long ago I can't remember.

*feebly takes cover off Alzeimer's medication*

[david r]

This was, I believe, a con sketch Davis did. But it just goes to show why Rachel on Excalibur was pretty much THE ultimate Phoenix, in my book:

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/797/phoenixq.jpg

That is indeed a spectacular image. It's remarkable how Alan Davis captured these characters so perfectly, right out of the gate. Thank you for posting it.

@Limerick, I figured Excalibur #1 might be a little wait. It did come out several months after the Special Edition. I will be posting my own thoughts on the Special Edition tomorrow.

[Bingo!]

Seriously. He is self-taught. Which is freaking amazing in anybody's book.

Alan Davis is and always will be one of the best comics book artists. Ever. I always say that, though. One of my cherished comic-related books is Modern Masters Volume One: Alan Davis. If you appreciate Davis' work, this book is a gem. Interviews with Davis, an artist showcase of Davis' influences, panel after panel of pencils from his early days in comics all the way down to his works around 2003.

But onto "The Sword is Drawn"

Claremont, Davis and Neary bring together a very interesting group of characters. Nightcrawler, Shadowcat and Rachel Summers, some of my favorite mutants that at the time were missing from the X-Men title with Captain Britain, Meggan and their associated UK characters. Visually the five heroes looks quite powerful together, but the magic is the character driven attention the CD&N give. From their first panels all the characters compliment one another. The pleasant tension between Kurt and Brian is playful and fun to read.

The spotlight on Rachel is what really drew my attention. Davis gives Rachel strength that I haven't seen in her previous appearances in Uncanny. Her mullet even looks great! As with everyone else in the thread, I completely love Davis' interpretation of the Phoenix effect. It honors the traditional effect while giving Rachel Phoenix wings and making her look original and iconic. Davis and Neary do a wonderful job in the Underground scene where Rachel blasts the warwolf off the train while exclaiming, "I'm free -- and no one's ever going to cage me again!" Fan-boy-squeal!

I really could ramble on for quite awhile, so I'll just quickly list some other moments for me. Gatecrasher and the Technet. If this is Excaliburs main foe, this title will be a lot of fun! How long will Mojo's warwolves chase Rachel? This Opal Luna Saturnyne, Omniversal Majestrix lady is very captivating. I want to see more of her. Where will Excalibur make their base of operations? Muir Island seems a logical choice with it's equipment and existing facilities. :wink:

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30219216364.1.GIF

1st X-MEN Appearances: Gatecrasher, Opal Luna Saturnyne, Warwolves, the Technet (Bodybag, China Doll, Elmo, Ferro, Joyboy, Ringtoss, Scatterbrain, Thug, Yap)

What a work of art. I consider this Special Edition to be Alan Davis' "Mona Lisa". Absolutely captivating work and very pleasing to the eye. Alan captures stalwarts like Nightcrawler and Shadowcat without a hint of inexperience, and that's remarkable considering Davis was still relatively new to the X-world. I really took my time with this book and examined/loved every single panel. It's a comic that should be savored.

I know zilch about the Captain Britain mythos, but you don't need to know it/understand it to enjoy this. It fully immerses you even with the introduction of these colorful, oddball characters. It's plotted in a reader friendly way. I'm sure this is helped with Kurt, Kitty and Rachel Summers being the anchors.
---Like how those Danger Room robots Nightcrawler fights wear swashbuckling hats! Kurt Wagner has lost none of his adventurous nature. Kurt, it's so GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK!!
---The framed picture of the X-Men that Kitty Pryde has in her bedroom was probably taken around Uncanny X-Men #201. Notice only Kurt and Kitty are smiling in it.
---That panel with Rachel sitting in a giant cake, with a cavalcade of "Alice in Wonderland" types, at the Masquer"aid", is a treasure. There are so many details to it.

---The aborted Phoenix mini series is touched upon here. It's pretty plain that it DID happen, even though it was never published. Rachel makes several references to her time on Mojoworld.The whole beginning sequence gives the reader a brief description of the torture Rachel endured by the Spineless One.
--- Meggan appears to be a Shapeshifter. When she lays on the bed, worried whether Brian Braddock truly loves her, her face changes shape. And then *POP* returns to her handsome features. Almost as though she'd lost control for a moment. This Special Edition says "In olden days, she'd be called one of the Faery Folk." Very interesting.......
---The Technet are truly an exotic and creative group. Nothing exists quite like them in the Marvel Universe. I wish we'd see more of them now.
---It's fascinating all the references to the sword Excalibur and "The Once and Future King" in this book. Chris Claremont considered the X-Men as Knights of the Round Table. I think Professor Xavier was their "King Arthur". Adding on to that, is the Phoenix Force their Sword Excalibur?? Is the Phoenix the symbol/tool used by mutants, just as the Excalibur was used by the Knights to dispatch their foes and achieve their Dream.

[kk1]

---The aborted Phoenix mini series is touched upon here. It's pretty plain that it DID happen, even though it was never published. Rachel makes several references to her time on Mojoworld.The whole beginning sequence gives the reader a brief description of the torture Rachel endured by the Spineless One.
.


Whoah wait what? There was going to be a Phoenix mini? That would have been so sweet...:frown:

[david r]

Kk1, there was a Phoenix limited series planned. Here are some unpublished pages for it below:

http://Images.comicartfans.com/Images/Category_5647/subcat_12823/phoenix%201%20p1%20publish.jpg

http://Images.comicartfans.com/Images/Category_5647/subcat_12823/phoenix%201%20p4%20publish.jpg

I do not know why the Phoenix limited series did not happen, in 1986. Do Claremont & Leonardi have bad luck? The mini was to explore Rachel Summers' relationship with Franklin Richards, who we find out were more than friends. She hunts him down as a Hound, but an attraction between them changes her. I believe the Shadow King plays a role, though that is debatable. The character shown in this two-page spread looks like Amahl Farouk.

http://images.comicartfans.com/Images/Category_5647/subcat_34543/phoenix%201%20p5-6%20dps%20publish.jpg

In the Excalibur Special Edition, at the campfire which ends the story, Rachel says about her memories, "The facts in my head, they're so jumbled up...I don't know anymore what's real and what isn't...what actually happened...what's a lie." What happened in Mojoworld and the Phoenix mini that made Rachel question her past??

[kk1]

Kk1, there was a Phoenix limited series planned. Here are some unpublished pages for it below:



In the Excalibur Special Edition, at the campfire which ends the story, Rachel says about her memories, "The facts in my head, they're so jumbled up...I don't know anymore what's real and what isn't...what actually happened...what's a lie." What happened in Mojoworld and the Phoenix mini that made Rachel question her past??

Cool where'd you get those?
Hmmm I wonder if any of that was saved for that X-men /FF Annual story that I can't recall other than that I was highly disappointed in Art Adams weak pencils.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

The artwork has been doing the rounds for a couple of years now. The hope had been that these were fragments of a completed series. Sadly, though, it has been confirmed that the series was never completed. What you're seeing id pretty much all there is.

[MartinRedmond]

The Phoenix mini was announced in the UXM letter page iir. There was supposed to be an Excalibur Special explaining Rachel's past but it got scrapped. The Excalibur Specials that were made were filler.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

The Phoenix mini was announced in the UXM letter page iir. There was supposed to be an Excalibur Special explaining Rachel's past but it got scrapped. The Excalibur Specials that were made were filler.

They were, a little bit.

[david r]

Speaking of Rachel Summers, I am so glad she is more stable and centered than she was in Uncanny X-Men. Rachel's emotions were running wild, during her stint with the X-Men. Whatever happened to her in Mojoworld must have grounded her. She is far more in control in joining Excalibur.

[jarrod]

The Phoenix mini was announced in the UXM letter page iir. There was supposed to be an Excalibur Special explaining Rachel's past but it got scrapped. The Excalibur Specials that were made were filler.
Well, sort of. The Phoenix mini evolved into an Excalibur Special (planned as Vol. 3) moving from Rachel's past to a Rachel/Kitty story, got canceled completely, then got revived years later as X-Men: True Friends. I wish they'd have collected it in the Excalibur Classic line, and dropped all the non-Claremont filler stories.

[kk1]

Well, sort of. The Phoenix mini evolved into an Excalibur Special (planned as Vol. 3) moving from Rachel's past to a Rachel/Kitty story, got canceled completely, then got revived years later as X-Men: True Friends. I wish they'd have collected it in the Excalibur Classic line, and dropped all the non-Claremont filler stories.

How was it?

[jarrod]

How was it?
I loved it. Even though Ray was mind controlled (AGAIN).

[limerick]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.1.GIF

Excalibur # 1.................October 1988

Warwolves of London!

Claremont/Davis/Neary

An Abandoned Factory,Loch Daemon,Scotland:In a derelict,trash-strewn run-down factory of Gateway Industries,a figure stirs around a small campfire.Tweedle Dope,of the criminal gang,The Crazy Gang ,stirs up a mixture of food and rubbish in a small metal container.Shaking it vigorously ,he soon loses interest and throws it aside,leaving the factory.As he departs an eye suddenly opens on the metal container which appears to be a robotic head.

London:Four Warwolves crawl over the city's rooftops.They gaze down on Commander Dai Thomas and Captain Britain who stand amongst a multitude of policemen.There is a hostage situation and Excalibur have been called in by Dai.On a nearby rooftop,Shadowcat and Phoenix stand with a police sargent,waitng for a signal.On recieving the signal from CB Shadowcat phases them both down through the building.The sargent is surprised by their mode of departure.Suddenly he is attacked by one of the Warwolves who strips his insides completely,leaving only his skin,which the Warwolf "puts on",disguising himself.

Kitty enters the room where the hostages are being held.She has disguised herself as a ghost using a sheet to try and spook the masked gunmen.One of them tries to shoot her but the bullet passes through her non-solid form.She then phases him which completely scares the others ,some of whom drop their weapons.Rachel pounces using her telekinetic powers to deal with the rest of them.Just them CB storms in,worried about the gunshot.But the job is already done with all the crooks lying in an unconcious heap.A creepy merchant banker ,Nigel Frobisher,tries to make a move on Phoenix but is put off by a withering look from CB.Rachel is upset as she sensed the death of the police sargent who has completely ceased to exist.

Later that night,another Warwolf accquires the skin of a teddy-boy.Again,Rachel feels the psychic trauma of the persons death via her telepathic powers.Meanwhile the Warwolves prepare their third victim......

Brian's Old Workshop,1 Merlin Mews,London: Kitty looks at photographs of Doug Ramsey and The X-men and is reduced to tears by their deaths.She thinks of how so many of their foes are still alive but they perished.Brian startles her bringing her a cup of tea.She tells him how she's been getting headaches from when she stays solid for a period of time.Brian tells her that Rachel hasn't had any more of seizures she suffered three times over the last three days.He's going into the city with Rachel.Kitty says she'll stay behind as she is working on something to determine what caused Rachel's seizures.

Excalibur's Lighthouse Base,West Coast of England:Nightcrawler and Meggan arrive back at their newly appointed headquarters and discuss her plans for the base.Nightcrawler worries that Brian may not know about her idea and may not be impressed.He goes downstairs to look at the storage cellars but when he opens the door he is faced by a giant ceremonial hall occupied by hundreds of strange looking aliens(?).He teleports back to the kitchen to avoid capture.H e tells Meggan what he saw and they both go back down for a look.But when he opens the door again it is just what he expected to see the first time-a storage cupboard .Nightcrawler is puzzled.

Fraser's Bank,Thameside,London:Ray waits in the reception area of the bank for Brian to conclude his business.She chats telepathically to Nightcrawler and Meggan about what just happened at the lighthouse.She is approached by Nigel Frobisher,who is vaguely aware of meeting her before but can't place exactly where.Ray is disgusted at his heavy come-on and vile thoughts which she senses telepathically.With a flare of the Phoenix effect she frightens him off.

In the office next door Brian thinks he may have to talk to Ray about her dress sense as she is attracting a lot of attention.The bank Vice-President enters the office greeting Brian.She is an old friend of Brian's from university.He tells Courtney Ross he is looking to do business with her bank.

Merlin Mews:Kitty has finished work on her project.She has created a device which emits an energy signal identical to Phoenix's energy signature.To complete her deception she puts on one of Rachel's costumes(but has a little trouble with the heels!)and colours her hair red.She also uses make-up to replicate Phoenix's facial tattoos.She then heads out into the streets hoping that the Warwolves will be fooled into thinking she is Phoenix and come looking for her .As she leaves she just misses Nightcrawler and Meggan who arrive seconds later.Nighcrawler takes a bath and is embarrassed when Meggan walks in on him with a cup of cocoa for him.He worries Brian may not be too happy at Meggan being in that situation.Later,he wanders into Brian's workshop.He quickly works out what Kitty has done and is immediately worried about what might happen to her.He telepathically informs Rachel who is in the Strand Theatre watching Shakespeare.She leaves immediately for East London where Kitty's device is located.

Kitty is contacted by Racel telepathically at the same moment she is approahed by three people she does not realise are Warwolves in disguise.They quickly shed their skins and approach what they to believe to be Phoenix.Kitty triesto phase when one of them tries to hit her.Strangely ,the blow from the Warwolf disrupts her powers .Just then Rachel arrives ploughing them all into a nearby factory.But she loses grip on the Warwolves and goes crashing into a pipe ending up being covered in some type of goo.The Warwolves are confused with the two Pheonixes but they decide to stick with what they have.They decide that if it isn't the real Phoenix then the last Warwolf can use her for his skin.Nightcrawler teleports in but is sent flying by the warwolves as they escape.By the time CB andMeggan arrive the Warwolves are long gone.They must catch them before they skin Kitty.......

[limerick]

Speaking of Rachel Summers, I am so glad she is more stable and centered than she was in Uncanny X-Men. Rachel's emotions were running wild, during her stint with the X-Men. Whatever happened to her in Mojoworld must have grounded her. She is far more in control in joining Excalibur.
You would have thought that whatever she experienced in Mojoworld would have been quite stressful so it's surprising she's coming back a stronger,more relaxed and confident individual.The nervous ,unsure Rachel of Uncanny seems a distant past.Even the way she dresses.She seems a lot more sexually confident in herself and aware of how hot she is.

[Cub]

Oh my God thank you I have been waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting.

Honestly, this is an incredible debut issue. Loved the scene with the constable approaching the smiling warwolves in their people costumes. They were honestly scary. Kitty in the hound costume is hiLARious. Any scene with Nigel Frobisher is heaven. Just heaven.

[Loki]

Tweedle Dumb,of the criminal gang,The Crazy Gang
On a nearby rooftop,Shadowcat and Pheonix
A creepy merchant banker ,Nigel Forbisher
Sorry to be nitpicky on the names/spellings, but it is Tweedledope, Phoenix and Nigel Frobisher.

[Cub]

Damn. That was way harsh, Ty.

[creaky]

Excalibur is usually thought of as a light-hearted book, but it definitely had a lot of dark undertones to it. The Warwolves are pretty nasty. It's also interesting to see how Claremont plants little hints of things to come with Tweedledope and the robot head, which will be picked up on many, many issues later (I think 40 issues or so, but that's just off the top of my head and I might remember wrong).

[kk1]

It's also interesting to see how Claremont plants little hints of things to come with Tweedledope and the robot head, which will be picked up on many, many issues later (I think 40 issues or so, but that's just off the top of my head and I might remember wrong).


Actually his planned use for it happens pretty quick. (and since he's on the back of the Special Edition cover it's obvious Claremont planned this series out ahead of time, which makes the "because YOU demanded it, pretty funny)

[Nevets F]

Sorry to be nitpicky on the names/spellings, but it is Tweedledope, Phoenix and Nigel Frobisher.

Then please don't be. At least not with Phoenix, I am sure he knows how to spell it. We all make typos.

[creaky]

Actually his planned use for it happens pretty quick. (and since he's on the back of the Special Edition cover it's obvious Claremont planned this series out ahead of time, which makes the "because YOU demanded it, pretty funny)

I suppose "because I demanded it" doesn't sound as nice.

[Imraith Nimphais]

I suppose "because I demanded it" doesn't sound as nice.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

[Loki]

Then please don't be. At least not with Phoenix, I am sure he knows how to spell it. We all make typos.

I normally wouldn't pick on someone's spellings or typos, and I ignored any others in what was typed. As you say, we all make typos. But if there's going to be discussion of the comic, then we at least need to get the characters' names right, and if I going to correct the misnaming of Tweedledope, I felt I might as well cover the two names that were misspelled at the same time.

[DungeonmasterJim]

You would have tought that whatever she experienced in Mojoworld would have been quite stressful so it's surprising she's coming back a stronger,more relaxed and confident individual.The nervous ,unsure Rachel of Uncanny seems a distant past.Even the way she dresses.She seems a lot more sexually confident in herself and aware of how hot she is.

I'm fairly certain that I read somewhere that Claremont had Rachel not aware of how hot she is. Since I'm a huge Alan Davis fan I'm pretty sure Alan mentioned this in the descriptions he got from CC about Rachel. While she dressed 'sexy' she wasn't aware of the effect it was having on guys. Kitty and Brian comment to themselves on it in a couple of issues.

DM Jim

[limerick]

Maybe I'm wrong labelling it a 'sexual confidence',but there is a definite change in her general demeanour.Back in her X-men days she just seemed so short on any confidence at all and I couldn't have imagined her dressing back then like she does now.

I think you're right that Brian and Kitty comment on it soon--i.e. that she does not see the effect she has on men.Hard to believe considering she's a telepath!

[limerick]

Sorry to be nitpicky on the names/spellings, but it is Tweedledope, Phoenix and Nigel Frobisher.
TweedleDope--TweeldleDumb---I was distracted and thinking of 'Alice in Wonderland!
Phoenix---Okay,that was poor.
Nigel Frobisher--I genuinely used to pronounce it that way(Forbisher) when I read it years ago.The first time I read his name I obviously read it incorrectly as 'Forbisher' and stuck with that since.For the thread, I promise to use his real name spelling but in my head he'll always be 'Nigel Forbisher'.:biggrin: Sorry!

Anyway,I don't mind the corrections but thanks to all who defended me.These threads have shown how my spelling has deteriorated over the years

[limerick]

Excalibur # 1 Summary now complete.Apologise in advance for any spelling errors!:biggrin:

[kk1]

This issue cemented Alan Davis as one of my favorite artists. When kitty puts on Phoenix's hound outfit and it's obvious she doesn't have the "proportions" to fill it out like Rachel just shows how much the little details count. One thing about other arists I can't stand is they have 1 face and 1 body with a few standard poses and the only way you can tell the difference is hairstyle or costume. But AD gives every character that sense of individuality that just makes them shine.

[limerick]

TweedleDope--TweeldleDumb---I was distracted and thinking of 'Alice in Wonderland!
Phoenix---Okay,that was poor.
Nigel Frobisher--I genuinely used to pronounce it that way(Forbisher) when I read it years ago.The first time I read his name I obviously read it incorrectly as 'Forbisher' and stuck with that since.For the thread, I promise to use his real name spelling but in my head he'll always be 'Nigel Forbisher'.:biggrin: Sorry!

Anyway,I don't mind the corrections but thanks to all who defended me.These threads have shown how my spelling has deteriorated over the years
Actually,my pronounciation of certain characters as I read them has often been different from what they turned out to be.Another favourite of mine is calling Magneto(pronounced mag-neet-o),magnet-o.And he'll always be magnet-o to me.Anything else just seems wrong to me.Another one was Apocalypse who I insisted on calling Acopalypse---not the spelling,just the pronounciation.Sorry,just one of my(many!)personality traits!

[limerick]

Thoughts on Excalibur # 1:

--This title is defined by Davis's art It's awesome from the word go.Great cover with a redesigned Phoenix.As someone mentioned already,that telekinetic/Phoenix effect is great.It really adds to the use of her power.The Warwolves at the bottom of the page are pretty cool too.

--In fact the Warwolves in this issue manage to be both humourous and incredibly vicious and threatening at the same time.Claremont always adds to a characters death ,such as the policeman's, by painting even just a paragraph of background detail which gives us some interest in the character.

--Loch Daemon.Does it exist?Is that a stonehenge-like structure there?Does that exist in reality or does Claremont just add it in foir mystic effect?

--Gateway Technologies where Widget first appears---does this appear in the Captain Britain series?I don't have it all.

--Is it just me or is Nigel dressed as JohnTravolta in Wally's nightclub?

--Something strange going on in the Lighthouse basement.You'll need to dig in for the long term to get answers.

--The letter from Doug's parents on Pg. 15--nice Claremont touch.

--On page 29-30,is Phoenix really almost taken out by a sweet mix(factory--ye olde English humbugs).A little Claremont sweet joke, me thinks.

--Finally,the page numbers are located at the bottom right hand corner of the last panel of each page instead of the usual location of the bottom of the page.I don't think I've seen that numbering on a Marvel before.

--Overall,a great first issue with plenty of character work but also managing a bit of action.And a great conclusion.

--

[limerick]

Excalibur is usually thought of as a light-hearted book, but it definitely had a lot of dark undertones to it. The Warwolves are pretty nasty. It's also interesting to see how Claremont plants little hints of things to come with Tweedledope and the robot head, which will be picked up on many, many issues later (I think 40 issues or so, but that's just off the top of my head and I might remember wrong).
I think you're right ,Creaky.It does take agesfor some of the plot threads introduced in the next few issuesto be resolved.Without giving too much away once Davis takes over scripting he tidies a lot of loose plot threads very quickly

[kk1]

Thoughts on Excalibur # 1:



--Gateway Technologies where Widget first appears---does this appear in the Captain Britain series?I don't have it all.



--

Nope. Not that I can remember.

[Loki]

Thoughts on Excalibur # 1:
--Loch Daemon.Does it exist?Is that a stonehenge-like structure there?Does that exist in reality or does Claremont just add it in foir mystic effect?

--

No, but there are plenty of lochs in Scotland, and a passable number of standing stone sites across Britain as a whole.

[kk1]

Alternative cover to #1 from AD's website

http://www.alandavis-comicart.com/images/WExcal1rough.jpg

[limerick]

Alternative cover to #1 from AD's website

http://www.alandavis-comicart.com/images/WExcal1rough.jpg
Cool,thanks for that!.Although I think the cover they went with is more suitable for issue #1 as it showcases the team better.The Warwolves look much more vicious in the alternative cover

[Joey]

Alternative cover to #1 from AD's website

http://www.alandavis-comicart.com/images/WExcal1rough.jpg

I like the alternate one but the original is the best choice for the #1 issue

[Nevets F]

I agree, I think they made the right choice in covers...but it is always great to see these types of images and covers and behind the scenes stories posted. :D

[Valjean999]

Actually,my pronounciation of certain characters as I read them has often been different from what they turned out to be.Another favourite of mine is calling Magneto(pronounced mag-neet-o),magnet-o.And he'll always be magnet-o to me.Anything else just seems wrong to me.Another one was Apocalypse who I insisted on calling Acopalypse---not the spelling,just the pronounciation.Sorry,just one of my(many!)personality traits!


Wow, nice to know I'm not the only one who has always pronounced Magneto that way! It seems to make more sense, to me...

[limerick]

Wow, nice to know I'm not the only one who has always pronounced Magneto that way! It seems to make more sense, to me...
Ha,ha.Another one was 'Magik',which I used to pronounce 'madge-eek'.To this day I don't know if it's 'magic' or 'madge-eek'!

[CallMeGeoff]

Dear...GOD!!!

I missed the start of this thread!!! I'm so disappointed in myself! I was so excited for it, and I missed it!!!

I have some quick catching up to do (and I need to change my underwear), and I will be back with my thoughts on the Special and first issue.

LOVE...THIS...BOOK!!!!

[Nevets F]

Dear...GOD!!!

I missed the start of this thread!!! I'm so disappointed in myself! I was so excited for it, and I missed it!!!

I have some quick catching up to do (and I need to change my underwear), and I will be back with my thoughts on the Special and first issue.

LOVE...THIS...BOOK!!!!

lol...good to have you in another of the threads CallMeGeoff!

[worstblogever]

Looking back... Niles Frobisher makes me think of Quagmire from Family Guy.

[kk1]

Looking back... Niles Frobisher makes me think of Quagmire from Family Guy.

Giggity!


(thanks that all I'm gonna hear in my head when I read books with him)

[Dagger]

I have turned on another person to this book! I donated my Excalibur #1-25 to my friend, who is OBSESSED with the X-Men. Seriously, the girl does RP games with them and everything, but she's never heard of Excalibur. Do I get a Widget prize for going above and beyond the call of duty?

[Aelle3]

Yup, good job sir!

http://www.dragonhero.com/graphics/mu/Widget_blk2.jpg

[Aelle3]

Or you can have an late widget prize

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/229/89587-149450-widget.jpg

[Dagger]

I did not care for later widget, so I think I'll stick to the first one.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

You could have a Later Late Widget prize, but that would be tainted by Kang the Conqueror - and nobody wants that.

[kk1]

I did not care for later widget, so I think I'll stick to the first one.


I'm with you on that, in fact 25 is probably a good place to stop. As much as I like Alan Davis' art I'm not that big a fan of his writing stint on the book.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I'm with you on that, in fact 25 is probably a good place to stop. As much as I like Alan Davis' art I'm not that big a fan of his writing stint on the book.

!??!!

How can you dislike Davis' run? I can't wait until we get to that. It was great.

[kk1]

!??!!

How can you dislike Davis' run? I can't wait until we get to that. It was great.

I hate Kylun and Cerise, and am not a fan of the other new team members either.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Well, I guess we'll discuss them when we get there, but I personally liked both Kylun and Cerise. I liked Micromax, too. This was the strongest period of Excalibur, for me. Before Lobdell ruined the title, by trying to force it into being a generic X-Men book. Up until that point it was just a British-based superhero book with some X-Men on the roster.

[Dagger]

Well, I guess we'll discuss them when we get there, but I personally liked both Kylun and Cerise. I liked Micromax, too. This was the strongest period of Excalibur, for me. Before Lobdell ruined the title, by trying to force it into being a generic X-Men book. Up until that point it was just a British-based superhero book with some X-Men on the roster.
Lobdell was forced to do that with the book. It was even brought up in the Anniversary Wizard issue.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Lobdell was forced to do that with the book. It was even brought up in the Anniversary Wizard issue.

Yeah. It was the way the whole line was going at the time. It could have gone one of two ways. I mean look at Alpha Flight - a book in an incredibly similar situation to Excalibur. Spawned in part from the X-Men, driven forward by an X-Men artist, but very much an international Marvel Universe team. It didn't survive in the MU pool, while Excalibur did in the X-Pool.

Reading the Warren Ellis issues after Lobdell are reward enough for me.

[Dagger]

Yeah. It was the way the whole line was going at the time. It could have gone one of two ways. I mean look at Alpha Flight - a book in an incredibly similar situation to Excalibur. Spawned in part from the X-Men, driven forward by an X-Men artist, but very much an international Marvel Universe team. It didn't survive in the MU pool, while Excalibur did in the X-Pool.

Reading the Warren Ellis issues after Lobdell are reward enough for me.
Yeah, poor Alpha. Marvel just didn't know what to do with that book. Although, I did enjoy Niciezia's run, and the beginning of Lobdell's, it just went down hill fast.

P.S. what issue are we discussing in Excalibur? I'd like to get caught up...and it seems that the reviews are going in a glacial pace.

[kk1]

Well, I guess we'll discuss them when we get there, but I personally liked both Kylun and Cerise. I liked Micromax, too. This was the strongest period of Excalibur, for me. Before Lobdell ruined the title, by trying to force it into being a generic X-Men book. Up until that point it was just a British-based superhero book with some X-Men on the roster.


Well by then it had become an unnesscessary book Alan Davis was just trying to tie up loose ends from earlier (with no idea how they were supposed to wrap up) and then Kitty Kurt and Rachel should have gone back to the X-men and the book ended. It outlived it's purpose once they knew the X-men were alive and trying to keep it going with kinda lame secondary characters (IMO) so you would have to buy another book during all the crossovers (same with X-factor) was a weak reason to have a book (again IMO). By that point Editorial dictates (for business not story reasons) ruined most of the X-books. But that's another discussion let's just focus on the goodness that was the first 24 issues of Excalibur for now.

[kk1]

Yeah, poor Alpha. Marvel just didn't know what to do with that book. Although, I did enjoy Niciezia's run, and the beginning of Lobdell's, it just went down hill fast.

P.S. what issue are we discussing in Excalibur? I'd like to get caught up...and it seems that the reviews are going in a glacial pace.

Byrne never wanted to do AF to begin with as he purposely created weak 1 dimensional characters for their appearance in X-men, but their initial popularity demanded a spin-off.

We're still on Issue #1 so discuss away.

[Dagger]

Byrne never wanted to do AF to begin with as he purposely created weak 1 dimensional characters for their appearance in X-men, but their initial popularity demanded a spin-off.

We're still on Issue #1 so discuss away.
I know he didn't. But he created some of the most intriguing and loved by me characters with that series. I wish he would have had a real passion for the series. I just wonder how great it would have been then...

Sigh, I think I'm gonna give the O.P. a hand. I just went through issues #1-14 last night.

[SayOcean]

okay so i have a crazy question that i dont think ever got answered in the xmen forever forum.....and im not sure if anyone will know the answer since it hasnt came out yet....but what is the time frame between excalibur 1 and the xmen #1 that was so famous?

[kk1]

.but what is the time frame between excalibur 1 and the xmen #1 that was so famous?

I don't understand your question "what time frame was... famous"?

[limerick]

Excalibur #1 cover date Oct 1988
X-men #1 really can't remember exactly when ---1991 sometime???

[limerick]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.2.GIF

Excalibur # 2...................November 1988

"A Warwolf Possessed"

Claremont/Davis/Neary

An Abandoned Factory,Loch Daemon,Scotland:In a derelict,trash-strewn run-down factory of Gateway Industries,a young orphan mutant boy plays with the small robotic head(seen in #1).He is hiding there following his abduction from his home by "crooks" who called him "a mutie".Suddenly,the same crooks arrive at the factory having tracked him to there.Before they can capture him again he disappears in a flash of light beside a strange arch which incorporates the metallic head.Vixen arrives to ensure her men have recaptured the boy.She is furious at his disappearanceand promises the men responsible they will regret it.

Back inside the now empty factory, the robotic head detatches from the arch and pronounces the boy,Colin,is safe....

The Underground,London:Four Warwolves flee Excalibur,three carrying their 'skins',the fourth carrying Kitty Pryde disguised as Phoenix.As they dive down a tunnel, they knock a woman off the platform into the path of an oncoming train.Just before it hits her Captain Britain whisks her out of it's path,helped by the real Phoenix who telepathically holds the train back.The passengers on the platform start to get spooked as more Excalibur members arrive(Nightcrawler and Meggan).Then the sergeant (seen in last issue)arrives and commands Excalibur not to go anywhere until the mess is sorted out.Excalibur are keen to follow Kitty but do not want to antagonise the police.While they decide,the Warwolves get further away with Kitty.....

Kitty regrets her decision to go it alone with her plan.Stuck to the Warwolf carrying her she is powerless to act.The Warwolves arrive back at their base and quickly deduce that Kitty is not ,in fact, Phoenix as they believed.TheWarwolf decides to use her for his skin and starts the process to 'skin' her.

Rachel immediately senses this and dramatically exits the underground, boring a tunnel through it to the surface,exhibiting the full Phoenix effect.

The Warwolf completes the skinning process only to find,much to his colleagues amusement,that the skin has disappeared......??

Fraser's Bank,Thameside:Nigel Frobisher has female company but is distracted by the awesome Phoenix effect visible in the sky outside.He is hypnotised by it's beauty.

Elsewhere in the bank,Courtney Ross notices the Phoenix and comments how her life has turned strange since Brian Braddock re-entered it.

The Underground:Excalibur are in telepathic contact with Rachel who has,herself,located Kitty, although the contact is very weak.As Dai Thomas arrives Nightcrawler leaves the others to follow the suspicious-looking sergeant.He follows him down an underground tunnel but loses him briefly when he has to avoid an oncoming train.As he inspects tracks on the ground,he unaware of the Warwolf now standing directly behind him ready to pounce.......

Phoenix tells the others Nightcrawler has been attacked and is unconcious.She thinks a Warwolf has him but can't track him properly without losing Kitty.Meggan changes form to a wolf-like creature and begins tracking Nightcrawler with CB in tow.

At the Warwolves hideout,the Warwolf who 'skinned' Kitty is feeling strange and suddenly changes shape to something resembling a human female.The last Warwolf arrives with Nightcrawler and the altered Warwolf decides to try him for a skin instead.As the Warwolf stands over Nightcrawler to begin the process,it suddenly resists, lashing out at the other Warwolves instead.The Warwolf's face has become much more human in form with hair now visible.As the Warwolves bicker Nightcrawler tries to escape but is stopped before he can get away.Before he can be skinned himself,Meggan and Captain Britain burst into the hideout.A brief battle follows with Excalibur emerging victorious.Excalibur are confused by the Kitty-shaped Warwolf which changes between Kitty's and the Warwolf's persona.Rachel wants to kill the Warwolves when they find the 'skins' but Nightcrawler stops her,telling her she doesn't have the right.

Suddenly,Kitty emerges from the Warwolf,shedding it like a skin.Her powers had interacted weirdly with the Warwolf so that it wasn't just her essence that was stolen but all of her.Rachel had helped her keep her conciousness cohesive and she had gradually gained control before finally freeing herself completely.Excalibur are unsure what to do with the Warwolves since they are too inhuman to be brought to trial but Kitty comes up with a solution.......

London Zoo,London:Excalibur watch as the Warwolves are unveiled as a new exhibit at the zoo.Excaibur wonder if the other 2 Warwolves they thought were dead are definitely out of circulation or things could get awkward..........

FIN

[limerick]

Thoughts on Excalibur # 2:

--Excalibur #2 has the first in a number of comedic covers which very much set it apart from the other X-books at the time.This book ,although Claremont scripted, was very British in tone and humour while still fitting Marvels basic outlines for a book.It reminded me very much of 2000AD/Judge Dredd humour as opposed to Spiderman's quips humour.

--Why was Rachel's costume purple on the cover?

--First appearance of Colin--stay tuned(for a long time)and all will be revealed.I remember being completely confused about those opening pages for ages afterwards.

--Claremont's sticking with the Nigel FRObisher thing---he must have plans of some sort for it.

--The Warwolves can combine humour and violence so easily.They are consistently funny in this issue but the Warwolf waiting to pounce on Nightcrawler is SCARY!!!!

--The zoo scene at the end is hilarious.Love the Warwolf reading the newspaper while smoking the pipe.But best of all is Nightcrawler's Huggy-Bear outfit.That guys got Pimp style!

[kk1]

Great end to what started in the Special and naked Kitty too! Yay for inappropriately oggling a 14 year old.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Thoughts on Excalibur # 2:

--Excalibur #2 has the first in a number of comedic covers which very much set it apart from the other X-books at the time.This book ,although Claremont scripted, was very British in tone and humour while still fitting Marvels basic outlines for a book.It reminded me very much of 2000AD/Judge Dredd humour as opposed to Spiderman's quips humour.

Yes. It was something which continued to occur throughout Alan Davis' association with the book, and while it is very slightly more common with more modern books it certainly was a very un-American comics concept, at the time. The idea that a superhero comic shouldn't take itself utterly seriously was still quite new. A lot of Excalibur's covers very deliberately addressed the reader. It was something British comics had been doing a lot longer.

--Why was Rachel's costume purple on the cover?

Well, it's not exactly her costume, is it? But yes it very much is purple. I figured it was an attempt at contrast between the bright flame of the Phoenix.

--First appearance of Colin--stay tuned(for a long time)and all will be revealed.I remember being completely confused about those opening pages for ages afterwards.

Indeed. The first appearance of Colin McKay. Obviously Davis followed up on this later, but I would be very interested to know if CC's original plans for Colin were different from what we actually received.

--Claremont's sticking with the Nigel FRObisher thing---he must have plans of some sort for it.

I've never been entirely certain as to what became of Nigel, after his Excalibur appearances. But yes, he was a regular guest character throughout the Claremont and Davis runs.

--The Warwolves can combine humour and violence so easily.They are consistently funny in this issue but the Warwolf waiting to pounce on Nightcrawler is SCARY!!!!

And I think a large part of that is down to Davis' artwork. I don't think that any other artist has quite managed to get the best out of these guys. And that's a shame.

--The zoo scene at the end is hilarious.Love the Warwolf reading the newspaper while smoking the pipe.But best of all is Nightcrawler's Huggy-Bear outfit.That guys got Pimp style!

Nightcrawler is all round much cooler in Excalibur. I so wish we could have it back. Cap aside none of the original cast have had quite such a positive or productive outing since. :frown:

[limerick]

Actually,there probably has never been a better time for a reunion of the original team with all members(even Kitty and Meggan,technically)availible.

[FeminineMystique]

Great end to what started in the Special and naked Kitty too! Yay for inappropriately oggling a 14 year old.

In comics darling, age is just a number. Just ask Colossus ;) (And Xavier come to think of it)

[creaky]

I'd rather see Kurt utilized well in the X-men. I don't like the implication that he needs to be on a different team to come into his own. He's unique enough to fill a function not filled by anyone else. The reason he was so good in Excalibur was Claremont and Davis' writing. I don't think simply reuniting the team is going to automatically make him awesome again. Excalibur is in the past and I'd rather move him on to something new.

[Loki]

I've never been entirely certain as to what became of Nigel, after his Excalibur appearances. But yes, he was a regular guest character throughout the Claremont and Davis runs.

Sat-Yr9 brutally stabbed him to death in Excalibur #56.

[limerick]

Thankyou!!

[Loki]

SPOILERS!!

Apologies, fixed now, though you need to edit your response to me.

[limerick]

I'd rather see Kurt utilized well in the X-men. I don't like the implication that he needs to be on a different team to come into his own. He's unique enough to fill a function not filled by anyone else. The reason he was so good in Excalibur was Claremont and Davis' writing. I don't think simply reuniting the team is going to automatically make him awesome again. Excalibur is in the past and I'd rather move him on to something new.
The problem is he's not getting as much exposure as he deserves in Uncanny.He's not a member of the Astonishing team or X-Force and unless he joins the possible new team in Legacy he's going to be restricted to appearances in Uncanny.Due to the nature of it's revolving cast this book is not going to give any character decent exposure.A new Excalibur would give him the platform he needs ,IMO.

[worstblogever]

Realizing that Colin is a lingering plot thread... man... it takes CC like two... three years after introducing the character before he acually gets utilized? Even for him, that seems a bit methodically slow.

[limerick]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.3.GIF

Excalibur # 3...................December 1988

Back Tomorrow with # 3----What a great cover!!!!

[limerick]

52296

The Classic Team!

[Valjean999]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.3.GIF

Excalibur # 3...................December 1988

Back Tomorrow with # 3----What a great cover!!!!


Awesome cover...

[limerick]

[QUOTE=limerick;9013647]http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.3.GIF

Excalibur # 3...................December 1988

"Moving Day"

Claremont/Davis/Neary

Her Majesty's Ultra Maximum Security Prison,Crossmoor:Vixen and a bunch of her henchmen break into the prison under moonlight by cutting a hole in the prison roof.Once inside they head for a specific cell to release a prisoner for whose freedom they will recieve a reward of £1,000,000.But when they open the cell it is empty.....it's a trap and guards appear armed to the teeth.One of Vixen's men blows the electricity supply plunging the prison into darkness and they attempt to escape,guns a-blazing!They fall back into a room marked 'Danger-Extreme Caution' and find Cain Marko--The Juggernaught, trapped in a stasis cage.They free him on agreement that he helps them.

Outside the army arrives with tanks and their Colonel is a little miffed when told Excalibur have been sent to help--he feels his troops are well capable of handling the situation.That is until The Juggernaut burst through the prison walls freeing himself,Vixen and her men and the rest of the prisoners.Vixen and her crew make their escape with jetpacks while the Juggernaught makes light work of the army's tanks.Suddenly,Juggernaut is hit in the face by a punch--courtesy of Captain Britain.The return sends CB flying several hundred yards!

Captain Britain heads back to confront The Juggernaut while Shadowcat,Meggan,Nightcrawler and Phoenix round up the 'ordinary' criminals without too much trouble.Captain Britain isn't fairing too well against Juggs and Megan,annoyed at seeing Brian hurt,joins the frey.But Phoenix quickly puts The Juggernaut out of commission with a mind-blast---he is not wearing his protective helmet and the battle is over.

A Deserted Dump,Newcastle:Rupert Holloway,an eccentric U.F.O. hunter, searches for a U.F.O. wearing bizarre(unscientific)gear.He comes across the robotic head(seen in last 2 issues)who has been feeding on junk and is swollen from his excess.The robot creates a 'transport-gate'(similar to the one seen last issue)in a burst of light.Rupert, thinking this is a chance to meet extraterrestrials,passes through the gate and suddenly finds himself somewhere verrry different.......a futuristic prison cell occupied by a beautiful women---Opal Lun Satyr9.She smiles menacingly at him....

Brian and Meggan's Lighthouse,West Coast of Britain:Kitty and Nightcrawler check out Excalibur's new base before the others arrive---it's so small!Phoenix,CB and Meggan arrive with their belongings.CB worries if there is enough room for everyone and wishes Meggan had told him fiirst before she asked everyone to move in.As the move the belongings into the cramped quarters it starts to rain....heavily.CB brings the last box in just as things get really wet but clumsily he drops it breaking it and its contents---software belonging to the flu-struck Kitty.She hides her annoyance--just.

Three days later it's still raining and the team are having trouble adjusting to the confined nature of their new quarters.Nightcrawler exercises,causing enough noise to wake the hungover CB who polished off a bottle of whiskey the night before.Suddenly the team are all distracted by a fire started accidentally by Meggan and Lockheed.Rachel disposes of some buring boxes,telekinetically dumping them in the sea.CB is raging ---that was his whiskey stash.The rest of the team tell him they feel he drinks too much and Meggan is upset that he turns to drink for comfort rather than her.Furious,CB storms out and flies away telling them:"I'm a grown man!I can take responsibility for my own life!"

Meggan breaks down crying,reverting to a less human form.She recoils from Nightcrawler telling him he mustn't see her like that.But he holds her telling her her heart and soul are pure,even if some people are too blind to see it.

The generator cuts off plunging Kitty's room into darkness.She phases down to the basement to check out the generator but is suddenly shocked to find herself facing an alternate version of herself,complete with their own Lockheed.....!!

London:Brian meets Courtney Ross telling her about his troubles.She suggests leaving CB behind him but he cannot let the responsibility go.He tells her he cannot talk to Meggan like he can to her....Suddenly,Phoenix manifests herself beside them ,telling Brian about the recent weird happening at the base.Reluctantly,he leaves her to head back home.

Back at the base the reat of Excalibur are discussing Kitty's 'vision' when CB arrives home.He suggests moving but in spite of the cramped quarters it is growing on the new arrivals.Brian apologises to Meggan and they all agree to put their trials and tribulations behind them and move foward....

FIN

[kk1]

Love this issue, the fight at the beginning is short but sweet. The Juggernaught's expression when he realizes what Rachel can do is priceless. Not much happens but getting a little setup and "meeting" characters and getting to know the personalities of characters we're not too familiar with is always something I enjoy in a comic.

[worstblogever]

The "very special episode" of Excalibur about alcohol abuse.

No, no Brian. I meant Rachel. Throwing good scotch into the Atlantic? BOO!

[Nikolievitch]

I know that I read the first 30 issues or so of Excalibur almost 10 years ago, but I feel like I'm reading them for the first time! So far, every issue has been wonderful. Alan Davis' art is incredible. His characters have so much personality, and they're also so hot!

[limerick]

Thoughts on Excalibur # 3:

--Alan Davis continues with his fantastic form which wowed X-fans of the time.Did we really deserve art this good MONTHLY??!!Love page# 6 where we watch Juggernaut vs. Captain Britain fight each other.......from about 3 miles away!!Cap's,"hit,hit,hit,hit,hit,hit" versus The Juggernaught's,"POW!Nice!!

--How powerful is Megan?To anyone unfamiliar with her character it was becoming more clear that she was at least an equal for C.B. power-wise,if not quite up to Phoenix's level.

--The one weak link in this story is the recycling of the old Juggernaut waekness of his susceptability to psychic attacks--they don't even have to prise his helmet off which is usually required.

--Claremont was really developing his characters here,using more than half the story to tell how the group gets on in their new base.The Juggernaut story seems to be there merely to fill quotas.At this time Uncanny was missing out on characterisation with Longshot and Betsy in particular suffering from zero input.He was telling the big epic stories in Uncanny but the characters were suffering.Excalibur ,so far is the opposite--great character work with light but satisfying plots.

--Brian Braddock is such a well realised character--his flaws are what make him.His doubts over his continuing to be Capain Britain ,as voiced to Courtney on pages 27-29,seem so real and his lack of perfection is refreshing.

--Phoenix has changed so much from her early X-men appearances.Back then she was depicted as a very asexual person with a neutral haircut and unflattering clothing.What has happened that makes her so physically confident---is there something we'll never know about from the lost Phoenix mini?

[limerick]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.4.GIF

Excalibur # 4...................January 1989

Welcome to 1989!!!First up is Excalibur # 4.A brave cover so early into it's run.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Thoughts on Excalibur # 3:

--Alan Davis continues with his fantastic form which wowed X-fans of the time.Did we really deserve art this good MONTHLY??!!Love page# 6 where we watch Juggernaut vs. Captain Britain fight each other.......from about 3 miles away!!Cap's,"hit,hit,hit,hit,hit,hit" versus The Juggernaught's,"POW!Nice!!

Indeed. Davis first stint on Excalibur remains some of his strongest work. He was in his element here, and not being asked to meet any kind of 'House style'. Naturally the result is some excellent art. And his comic timing is perfect.

--How powerful is Megan?To anyone unfamiliar with her character it was becoming more clear that she was at least an equal for C.B. power-wise,if not quite up to Phoenix's level.

At this point I'd argue that potentially Meggan is more powerful than Brian. As we'll find out later on there is a reason why his power levels have shrunk since his own series, and it is only temporary. Hence why Cain kicks his ass so easily. At current continuity power levels Brian is every bit as powerful as the Juggernaut. Potentially limitless power. But even in New Excalibur Brian could catch a falling Cain without flinching, or stumbling.

Not as powerful as Rachel, of course. But... you know? She is The Phoenix. She does get a head start. :biggrin:

--The one weak link in this story is the recycling of the old Juggernaut waekness of his susceptability to psychic attacks--they don't even have to prise his helmet off which is usually required.

Yeah. But like we say... Phoenix! :biggrin:

--Claremont was really developing his characters here,using more than half the story to tell how the group gets on in their new base.The Juggernaut story seems to be there merely to fill quotas.At this time Uncanny was missing out on characterisation with Longshot and Betsy in particular suffering from zero input.He was telling the big epic stories in Uncanny but the characters were suffering.Excalibur ,so far is the opposite--great character work with light but satisfying plots.

I'd totally agree. This was early Excalibur's key strength. There were lots of ongoing plots, and plenty of smaller stories, but the focus on the characters and their interaction with each other (And with being in Britain also) was always central. And it was always a very natural interaction. Never forced.

--Brian Braddock is such a well realised character--his flaws are what make him.His doubts over his continuing to be Capain Britain ,as voiced to Courtney on pages 27-29,seem so real and his lack of perfection is refreshing.

Indeed. He was a very personable character. There was plenty in his situation and reactions which were very easy to see in ourselves, as readers. For late 80s readers this was often their first contact with the Captain and it endeared him to many. The important thing was to always understand that Brian led this dual life, in the traditional Superhero mold. And the results of that meant that think from both sides of his life could flood into the other. It set him apart from some of his other team-mates.

It was also something which some later writers just couldn't get their heads around. Lobdell in particular.

--Phoenix has changed so much from her early X-men appearances.Back then she was depicted as a very asexual person with a neutral haircut and unflattering clothing.What has happened that makes her so physically confident---is there something we'll never know about from the lost Phoenix mini?

Who knows? It's a shame that we never got to see that.

Rachel on Excalibur is definitely more assertive. Becoming part of Excalibur was, in some ways, a chance to reinvent herself. Her welding of the Phoenix force is far more creative and confident than her 'mom's, and she comes across as being a genuinely likable character.

Seriously. When I hear people rag on her on this forum I always recommend that they read her appearances in Excalibur. There's a world of difference between "Phoenix" Rachel Summers and the whiny Rachel "Marvel Girl" Grey...

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.4.GIF

Excalibur # 4...................January 1989

Welcome to 1989!!!First up is Excalibur # 4.A brave cover so early into it's run.

And example of things to come. The humour in early Excalibur was wonderful. It still had a story behind it all, but it could be very satirical in places. I hear people heralding the humour in Deadpool or Great Lakes Avengers as something wonderfully original and new. It's not Excalibur were doing that almost 20 years ago... :biggrin:

[NoChildren]

Great thread. I rarely post here, mostly lurk, but Excalibur is one of my favorite books of all time. I was 8 when it started coming out, and it was my introduction to that uniquely British sense of humor and sci-fi that I'd later love (and realize that it was taken from) in stuff like Red Dwarf, Dr. Who, The Avengers, and so on.

What's really weird is that I just pulled the original run from one of my archival longboxes last night because I've been wanting to re-read it for a while...then I saw this thread. Awesome!

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Great thread. I rarely post here, mostly lurk, but Excalibur is one of my favorite books of all time. I was 8 when it started coming out, and it was my introduction to that uniquely British sense of humor and sci-fi that I'd later love (and realize that it was taken from) in stuff like Red Dwarf, Dr. Who, The Avengers, and so on.

What's really weird is that I just pulled the original run from one of my archival longboxes last night because I've been wanting to re-read it for a while...then I saw this thread. Awesome!

Impeccable timing there, NoChildren. It must be fate. Feel free to stick your money worth into this thread. It'll be going for quite some time.

Excalibur was kind of my introduction to the X-Men. It was through reading that that, and Betsy Braddock joining the X-Men, that I got hooked on going after back issues and what few collections were out there in trade. There really wasn't that much X-Men material being regularly reprinted here in the UK, at the time. It was patchy, and back issues was the way to go.

Trivia point : Notice that the earlier issues of Excalibur actually have a UK price mark of 50p on them, below the issue number and month. That wasn't the case later on in the run, but in these earlier issues it's certainly there.

[kk1]

Thoughts on Excalibur # 3:


--The one weak link in this story is the recycling of the old Juggernaut waekness of his susceptability to psychic attacks--they don't even have to prise his helmet off which is usually required.



That was my favorite part all superpowerful beings need an Achilles heel, I hate when they make some excuse to extend a fight by ignoring the old rules. He just broke out of prison so he wouldn't have a helmet and so he should be that easily defeated by such a powerful telepath. His arrogance fighting CB turning to despair when he realizes what Rachel's gonna do was hilarious.

[limerick]

Great thread. I rarely post here, mostly lurk, but Excalibur is one of my favorite books of all time. I was 8 when it started coming out, and it was my introduction to that uniquely British sense of humor and sci-fi that I'd later love (and realize that it was taken from) in stuff like Red Dwarf, Dr. Who, The Avengers, and so on.

What's really weird is that I just pulled the original run from one of my archival longboxes last night because I've been wanting to re-read it for a while...then I saw this thread. Awesome!
Feel free to post anytime---all input is very much appreciated!

[limerick]

That was my favorite part all superpowerful beings need an Achilles heel, I hate when they make some excuse to extend a fight by ignoring the old rules. He just broke out of prison so he wouldn't have a helmet and so he should be that easily defeated by such a powerful telepath. His arrogance fighting CB turning to despair when he realizes what Rachel's gonna do was hilarious.
Yes ,I see what you mean.I just felt that the presence of Phoenix means the fight is destined to finish one way before it even starts.I think that takes away from the enjoyment of the encounter with Juggernaut........but only verrry slightly.Still a great fun read!!

[Loki]

Brian and Meggan's Lighthouse,West Coast of Britain:Kitty and Nightcrawler check out Excalibur's new base before the others arrive---it's so small!Phoenix,CB and Meggan arrive with their belongings.CB worries if there is enough room for everyone and wishes Meggan had told him fiirst before she asked everyone to move in.As the move the belongings into the cramped quarters it starts to rain....heavily.CB brings the last box in just as things get really wet but clumsily he drops it breaking it and its contents---software belonging to the flu-struck Kitty. She hides her annoyance--just.

Three days later it's still raining and the team are having trouble adjusting to the confined nature of their new quarters.Nightcrawler exercises,causing enough noise to wake the hungover CB who polished off a bottle of whiskey the night before.Suddenly the team are all distracted by a fire started accidentally by Meggan and Lockheed.Rachel disposes of some buring boxes,telekinetically dumping them in the sea.CB is raging ---that was his whiskey stash.The rest of the team tell him they feel he drinks too much and Meggan is upset that he turns to drink for comfort rather than her.Furious,CB storms out and flies away telling them:"I'm a grown man!I can take responsibility for my own life!"

Meggan breaks down crying,reverting to a less human form.She recoils from Nightcrawler telling him he mustn't see her like that.But he holds her telling her her heart and soul are pure,even if some people are too blind to see it.

I think the above is a very important set of points to look at, as it influenced how so many people saw Brian (and some still do). Lots of readers seemed to focus on the presence of the whiskey and the comments from his new teammates that they think he drinks too much as evidence towards alcoholism, and his upsetting Meggan by angrily storming off (and then going to talk to his ex) as evidence of his boorishness and even hinting infidelity (I've recently stumbled across one poster on another board who insists his chat with Courtney in this issue is evidence he was cheating on Meggan here).

But look at the full context of what happens, and who does what. All the characters agree the lighthouse is cramped quarters. Yes, Brian is short tempered after a couple of days - but then so is everyone except Meggan. Lets look at this from Brian's perspective for a minute. He likes his personal space - he grew up in a manor, and was a solitary child, sharing a huge home with only his parents, siblings and their housekeeper. That's not to say he was antisocial - he was gregarious enough at university, and he was happy to enough to have house guests in the manor, when he was the one who invited them - but he always had the option to get some solitude when he needed it, to have time to think things through and process. He didn't handle it well when RCX moved into the manor with dozens of people he didn't know, so that he couldn't even take an uninterrupted bath.

Meggan is easy going and loves company - she doesn't see an issue inviting several strangers in to share her cramped quarters, because (1) she is very used to cramped, shared accommodation (grew up in a caravan); (2) empathic powers means she's quick to take a liking to (good) people and they to her. But if you step back and look at it clearly, her actions towards Brian are as thoughtless as his towards her - how many of us would take it well if their partner suddenly offered to a let a group of people you barely know move in with you in what amounts to a small house with only a couple of spare rooms (and only a single bathroom, as is pointed out by Kitty), without even discussing it with you first? And those people then start telling you that you can only use the bathroom based on their schedule (never mind it's you that owns the place), banging away on the ceiling of their room / floor of your bedroom despite knowing you are asleep because they feel you should be up anyway, making it impossible to find anything because they've cluttered your house up with so many of their possessions, and then gang up on you to tell you that they feel you drink too much because, after four days trapped in confined quarters with them by a violent storm and unable to get a moment's breather from this behaviour, you had a drink?

I'm sorry, but to my mind, the above describes some pretty unpleasant houseguests. Brian storming off in anger is, frankly, restrained behaviour; if it were me, I'd have been throwing them out. Yes, he upsets Meggan, and that's insensitive - but I think it's also very understandable, and we see him very quickly admit his mistake and apologise to her (see below).



London:Brian meets Courtney Ross telling her about his troubles.She suggests leaving CB behind him but he cannot let the responsibility go.He tells her he cannot talk to Meggan like he can to her....Suddenly,Phoenix manifests herself beside them ,telling Brian about the recent weird happening at the base.Reluctantly,he leaves her to head back home.
Again, Brian gets bad press for this, with people looking and going "he's run off to see his ex-girlfriend, the bastard" without looking at what is said. Brian has gone to Courtney because he can talk to her - she knows the people involved, but she isn't friends with the rest of them, so he can discuss what's happening without having to either try to tip-toe around mentioning their secret identities, or spend ages explaining who all the participants are. She's also an old friend, which is a more important component than being an old girlfriend - she knows Brian well. Who else is he going to talk to? He's right when he says Meggan doesn't understand, because she clearly didn't or she'd have asked before inviting the others to move in. He doesn't have any other confidantes to go to - between his amnesiac period and heroing, he's lost contact with anyone else from his pre-heroic life; his normal choice of confidante would have been Betsy, but she's dead (as far as he knows); the Black Knight is in the states at this point, and besides, Brian at this point has only ever fought beside him, never shared downtime with him; about his only other option is Dai Thomas, and while he and Dai are on friendly terms by this time, he and Brian are hardly socialising buddies, let alone someone Brian would want to discuss his personal feelings with.

And what does he discuss? His wish he could have a normal life, but his feeling he has a responsibility to carry on. His sense of loss over Betsy. And his concern that Meggan is too devoted to him (which is expanded on a few issues later, so we'll save that discussion for later, except to say that he's right, she is - being loved that much is great, but it's also dangerous and scary, because you can hurt the other person all too easily with an unintentional word and instead of pulling you up for it, they will come back for more).

Back at the base the reat of Excalibur are discussing Kitty's 'vision' when CB arrives home.He suggests moving but in spite of the cramped quarters it is growing on the new arrivals.Brian apologises to Meggan and they all agree to put their trials and tribulations behind them and move foward....

And here's Brian, having had that personal time he needed so badly, had the time he needed to process. He apologises to Meggan. He agrees to put aside what has happened, and everyone moves on.

Some people point at Brian in this issue as evidence of his being a jerk or boorish - but what Claremont actually tells is a story of how all of them are horrendously insensitive and jerkish towards one another as they first try to live together. And they all make a conscious decision to put this aside and move on - it's never this bad again. The trouble was, many fans who only knew the ex-X-Men sided with those characters' viewpoint, which naturally made the person they were arguing with the bad guy. And he made pretty, sweet-natured Meggan cry, so hey, all the more "proof." But it's not as simple as that.

[limerick]

Loki,what you say about CB being patient with Meggan when she invites the others to live with them is SO true.Three lodgers in a space barely big enough for two(and one demanding Dragon!)is crossing the line.And Phoenix dumping his whiskey is unforgivable.She can have opinions on his drinking but she can't dump his stuff--that's just not on!

[limerick]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.4.GIF

Excalibur # 4...................January 1989

"Still Crazy After All These Years!"

Claremont/Davis/Neary

Late at Night,Frasier's Bank,Thamseside,London:Courtney Ross looks at an old photograph of herself and Captain Britain and thinks about how her times with him helped her become who she is today....."The Ice Queen".....an up-and-coming power in world banking.She is suddenly aware of four bizarre individuals standing in front of her--four members of The Crazy Gang.They try to capture her but she proves very resouceful and manages to hold her own against them despite the arrival of a fifth Crazy Gang member.She manages to escape out the front entrance of the bank and is relieved to see a police car right outside the building.She jumps into the rear seat telling the two officers to call Captain Britain.But then she recognises the "policemen"---they are in fact the assasin,Arcade and his right hand woman,Miss Locke.Before she can act Miss Locke shoots her with a hand-held weapon...

The West Coast of England:The next day Kitty and Rachel are shopping for clothes---specifically something a little more 'respectable' for Rachel as Brian has been worried her normal dress sense is attracting unwanted attention.Rachel is not impressed with the more sedate clothes she's trying on and to get her own back she telekinetically transforms Kitty's clothes into something much more racey than she would normally wear.When they goto pay for the clothes the cashier tells them their money is fake---it bears the Arcade logo and has pictures of the Crazy Gang and Courtney Ross on it.....

Excalibur's Lighthouse Headquarters:Nightcrawler is trying to put a 'jungle gym' together so he can train.Meggan arrives ,wondering what he's doing.He decides instead to show her and throws her into the air,somersaulting after her to catch her.He ends up tickling her and she laughs uncontrollably.They both fall onto the ground in a heap and suddenly a 'moment' occurs between them.Meggan transforms into the female version of Nightcrawler and edges towards him ,their lips parting to kiss.........when suddenly Brian's voice from upstairs shocks her back to her normal self and she races upstairs guiltily to Brian.Nightcrawler is furious with himself forgetting so close to betraying Brian's trust.

Upstairs Kitty and Racel arrive back telling Brian about the bank notes and that she thinks Arcade has kidnapped Courtney.Brian is furious at his old enemy and rushes off to rescue her.But Rachel stops him telekinetically and Nightcrawler says they must think before they rush into a trap.Using the currency,they deduct that Courtney is being held in a derelict building in Strangeways ,as it is pictured on the reverse of each bill.

Arcade's Murderworld,Strangeways:Courtney awakes to find herself chained and facing Arcade who tells her that this time his 'murder' is personal---The X-men,Courtney and C.B. were some of the few people to beat Murderworld and he wants revenge.She is sent flying into one of Arcade's scenarios---she finds herself on a stage in front of a huge crowd of what look like ogres of some sort.She is ordered to tell jokes ....or die!She tries to oblige......

"The Midnight Special" Train,Heading South to London:Dr. Moira Mctaggart and her self appointed body guard ,Callisto are on board the train as is heads South.Moira is concerned about scans of Phoenix she took when the team was put together.As the train passes through a tunnel it suddenly disappears in what is now becoming a familiar sight----a light burst caused by the transportation powers of the small head-like robot(seen in recent issues).He has transported the train to somewhere unknown....

Arcade's Murderworld,Strangeways:Arcade juggles passing the time until Excalibur show up.He catches Miss Locke smiling to herself(She never smiles!)and looking at the viewscreen realises,much to his surprise,that Courtney Ross has managed to avoid death by keeping the hordes of ogres amused with her jokes.

Outside the deserted factory frontage of Murderworld,The Crazy Gang wait as instructed by Arcade.Excalibur watch from a distance and Rachel scans their thoughts but finds nothing of interest.C.B. has had enough waiting and flies down,grabs the Crazy Gang and starts roughing them up a bit to try and learn Courtney's location.However,unable to concentrate on them all he ignores TweedleDope---a mistake as TweedleDope uses a mind transferral device on him and C.B. and TweedleDope's minds are switchedto each others bodies.When the rest of Excalibur catch up with C.B and The Crazy Gang,TweedleDope(in C.B.'s body)uses the device once more and Nightcrawler and Meggan find themselves in the bodies of The Jester and The Jack of Hearts and vice versa.

TweedleDope/C.B. flies behind Phoenix ready to try the transferral device on her.She is suddenly distracted by a psychic cry for help from her baby 'brother',Nathan Summers and with her defences down she is susceptible to the device.However,when activated the device does not work normally and The Executioner,instead of swapping minds with Rachel,is blown to pieces.It quickly becomes evident that she is not herself however,and with a blank,staring expression in her eyes she dons The Executioner's robe and picks up his axe---she has obviously either swapped minds with the Executioner or assumed his persona.Delighted by this twist in the tail,Arcade announces over a huge video screen that he hasn't forgot about Kitty or Lockheed and that they will soon be sorted........

FIN

[limerick]

http://www.dragonhero.com/graphics/mu/crazy-gang_banner.jpg

The Crazy Gang:The Executioner,The Queen of Hearts,The Jester,TweedleDope,The Jack of Hearts.

[kk1]

Great summary Loki, what a lot of people don't realize because they didn't have access to it is Brian pretty much retired from super heroing and it almost got his sister killed then she dies anyway, he was pretty conflicted over his responsibilty to being a super hero and still mourning his sister. Probably not the best time to have your personal space invaded by a bunch of strangers.

[kk1]

Excalibur # 4...................January 1989

You know what I didn't like about this cover? I was always worried about getting fingerprints all over it. lol

[limerick]

Thoughts on Excalibur # 4:

--Nice to see a picture of Cap.'s old costume on page 1.I used to love it but always thought his hand held device which 'housed' his powers was a bit awkward as it tied up a hand all the time.

--Courtney Ross is very formidable,taking on The Crazy Gang with a large degree of success.She's a typical Claremont female character---independent,hot and able to handle herself despite having no form in the superhero game!Mind you,the Crazy Gang are pretty lame to say the least although Tweedledope almost single-handedly takes Excalibur out at the end of the issue.

--Phoenix is starting to display powers akin to her mothers with her clothes-transforming trick in the shop.She just doesn't look right in a suit.BTW,the city on the West coast---where is it??Liverpool??

--Kurt and Meggan show some major attraction for each other,something that's been bubbling under in the last few issues. Their encounter is certainly more serious than Brian's meeting with Courtney which is generally innocent with a slight undercurrent of attraction---only natural between former lovers.But Kurt should know better and Meggan is the one normally so clingy to Brian--it was surprising to see her act this way.What will become of it??

--What is Moira's information on Phoenix(page # 20)--we'll probably have to wait a while for an answer by the looks of it.

--Miss Locke is smoking hot!!!!!

--Checkout the add for the "quickshot" joystick for the Atari 2600(page # 26)----that's a blast from the past!

[limerick]

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/4/4c/Miss_Locke.jpg

The Delectable Miss Locke!!!!!.........drool.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Thoughts on Excalibur # 4:

--Nice to see a picture of Cap.'s old costume on page 1.I used to love it but always thought his hand held device which 'housed' his powers was a bit awkward as it tied up a hand all the time.

I have a lot of time for the original costume. It's like the Marvel UK equivalent of the Golden Age, though. Remembered fondly, but under analysis you see it's flaws easily. :biggrin: You'll be seeing it again shortly...

--Courtney Ross is very formidable,taking on The Crazy Gang with a large degree of success.She's a typical Claremont female character---independent,hot and able to handle herself despite having no form in the superhero game!Mind you,the Crazy Gang are pretty lame to say the least although Tweedledum almost single-handedly takes Excalibur out at the end of the issue.

I do, in some ways, think that Claremont's take on the Crazy Gang is a little disappointing. The original Crazy Gang from Captain Britain were pure psychotics. Don't let the costumes fool you. They were like grotesque Batman villains, helping the first Jim Jaspers in another dimension.

This second set were also written quite darkly by Alan Moore and later Jamie Delano. They weren't as competent as the first encountered Crazy Gang, but under the tutorship of Slaymaster they still learned a thing or two.

Their appearance here, though, is far more comic effect that actual threat. And I find that a bit of a shame. They kind of end up as joke characters in Excalibur, when their roots were far more sinister.

--Phoenix is starting to display powers akin to her mothers with her clothes-transforming trick in the shop.She just doesn't look right in a suit.BTW,the city on the West coast---where is it??Liverpool??

It is indeed. The prominent building in the first panel is the famous Royal Liver Building:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Liver_Building

Although technically Liverpool is in the North West of England.

--Kurt and Meggan show some major attraction for each other,something that's been bubbling under in the last few issues. Their encounter is certainly more serious than Brian's meeting with Courtney which is generally innocent with a slight undercurrent of attraction---only natural between former lovers.But Kurt should know better and Meggan is the one normally so clingy to Brian--it was surprising to see her act this way.What will become of it??

I think that you can blame Meggan too much in this instance. It's not an intentional flirtation. It's just her powers syncing in with another. While arguably at the end of Captain Britain's solo series Meggan was becoming more in control of her powers, in Excalibur the contrary is often shown. But in this case you can justify such changes with her not having been in quite such a close environment with others, as this.

Kurt's just being Kurt, though. The REAL Kurt. None of this shy, retiring, religious man. The swashbuckling, charming and confident Kurt. I miss him.

--What is Moira's information on Phoenix(page # 20)--we'll probably have to wait a while for an answer by the looks of it.

It will be a while yet. This is also the first part of a lot of things to come. Wait until you see where that train ends up...

--Miss Locke is smoking hot!!!!!

Miss Locke is always Hot. :biggrin: Also worth noting that Arcade has a long going rivalry with the Captain, going back to when he and Spider-man escaped Murderworld, back in Marvel Team-Up some good many years earlier.

--Checkout the add for the "quickshot" joystick for the Atari 2600(page # 26)----that's a blast from the past!

80s technology. You've got to love it. another example of Davis' attention to detail, also.

[kk1]

I do, in some ways, think that Claremont's take on the Crazy Gang is a little disappointing. The original Crazy Gang from Captain Britain were pure psychotics. Don't let the costumes fool you. They were like grotesque Batman villains, helping the first Jim Jaspers in another dimension.

This second set were also written quite darkly by Alan Moore and later Jamie Delano. They weren't as competent as the first encountered Crazy Gang, but under the tutorship of Slaymaster they still learned a thing or two.

Their appearance here, though, is far more comic effect that actual threat. And I find that a bit of a shame. They kind of end up as joke characters in Excalibur, when their roots were far more sinister.

.

ehh I think he made them fit the comic tone of the book. I mean they really should be directionless w/o Jaspers and they are kinda ridiculous villains to begin with. Plus if not for being resurrected here would we have ever seen them again?

[The Sword Is Drawn]

ehh I think he made them fit the comic tone of the book. I mean they really should be directionless w/o Jaspers and they are kinda ridiculous villains to begin with. Plus if not for being resurrected here would we have ever seen them again?

Pretty much every available Captain Britain plot was carried over to Excalibur. Largely, because Excalibur was originally pitched by Claremont as a US printed Captain Britain title. He wanted to use those characters.

They do fit the tone of the title, but it did kind of make sure that future writers didn't take them seriously. We'll see that when we get later in to the run.

They were never intended to be pure Clowns. I'd really love to see some future writer use them more as they were originally intended. But, yes, not likely. What book would you use them on, now.

[DungeonmasterJim]

I SOOOOO wanted to see Rachel switch with the Red Queen. :frown:


The Crazy Gang are niche favorites of mine: good to see them rarely and not overly used keeping them cool and fun and me wanting me of them.

Never a fan of Cat's Laughing but I think they show up next issue. :confused: Been awhile since I've looked at issue 4.

I'm a pretty big fan of Tweedledope. :smile:

DM Jim

[Nikolievitch]

I know the lighthouse is really small and cramped with the whole team staying there, but I still love it. I love how all the rooms are round, how it's on that rugged, wild rock, and seriously, it often looks a little bigger on the inside than it does from the outside. The space in which Kurt was setting up his gym looked pretty massive. Does the lighthouse have a lot of underground levels?

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I know the lighthouse is really small and cramped with the whole team staying there, but I still love it. I love how all the rooms are round, how it's on that rugged, wild rock, and seriously, it often looks a little bigger on the inside than it does from the outside. The space in which Kurt was setting up his gym looked pretty massive. Does the lighthouse have a lot of underground levels?

LOL. You do have to wonder, don't you? Hard to say. We never received any kind of diagrams for the lighthouse. It probably wasn't really around for long enough.

[limerick]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.5.GIF

Excalibur # 5...................Febuary 1989

"Send in The Clowns!"

Claremont/Davis/Neary

Arcade's Underground Base,Strangeways:Courtney Ross drops through a trapdoor and slides down a chute .Her clothes are changed from her 'Playboy' Bunny outfit to an 'Alice' dress from 'Alice in Wonderland(Good Likeness!)and she drops into a new scenario cooked up by Arcade,Alice in Wonderland.She finds herself facing the mind reversed Crazy Gang and Excalibur and wonders why Captain Britain( reallyTweedleDope) and his friends do nothing to help her.Meanwhile TweedleDope(really Captain Britain) tries to communicate with her but can manage little more than gibberish.

There is a minor face-off between the groups before Courtney realise there is something strange going on and she tries to escape with the members of The Crazy Gang(really Excalibur)who are trying to help her.

In Arcade's control room Shadowcat suddenly phases through the main control board ,short-circuiting it, and grabs Arcade.She then phase back out of the room taking him with her.Lockheed is left behind keeping Mr Chambers and Miss Locke under detention by threatening them with his flamethrowing ability...

Doen in MurderWorld proper the short-circuiting control board has caused things to go haywire and Courtney is seperated from the others in a new enviorment.She soon finds she is not alone as Phoenix stalks her in her 'Executinor' mode.Kitty drops Arcade off in MurderWorld nearby and soon he is on the run from Rachel as well.For Courtney things take a turn for the better when The Jack of Hearts(actually Meggan) accidentally takes out Rachel by falling through a roof on top of her.But then just as she thinks she's okay she is grabbed by Nightcrawler(actually The Clown).

Meanwhile Kitty inserts a new program into the MurderWorld computer.After her last encounter with Arcade(Uncanny # 197) she designed a promram with Doug Ramsey that would give HER control over MurderWorld instead of Arcade.

Nightcrawler(actually The Clown) ties Courtney to a conveyor belt which moves her slowly towards an enormous spinning saw which will cut her in two unless she escapes.Suddenly the real Nightcrawler arrives and the two iof them battle it out.It doesn't seem as if the fight will finish in time to save Courtney as the saw inches closer.Just when she feels time has run out for her Arcade cuts the ropes binding her ,freeing her.She shows no thanks punching him squarely on the face ,knocking him out.Before she can react ,another trap-door opens and she lands on a small rocket which shoots her to another part of MurderWorld....

The Control Room:Mr Chambers dons a fire proof suit and tries taking on Lockheed with a fire extinguisher but has little joy,sent packing with his tail between his legs.Miss Locke decides to try another approach and bats her eyelids at Lockheed turning on the charm......

MurderWorld:Courtney finds herself in a 'Space Wars' scenario flying a minature spacecraft.Suddenly she is confronted by Captain Britain(actually TweedleDope)who she realises is not the person she knows intimately.The real Brian(in the guise of TweedleDope)arrives to try and help,flying some sort of craft with which he grabs the faux Captain Britain while Courtney leaves the scenario by falling down another exit.

Courtney finds herself on a stage with the band,Cat's Laughing,who introduce themselves.The audience is made up entirely of sentient custard pies.Soon she is joined by the rest of The Crazy Gang and Excalibur.TweedleDope(actually Brian)gives her a device to reverse the mind-swap process and return them to their correct bodies.Kitty arrives and tells her what the device does.She says she cannot touch it as her phasing power may destroy the device so it's down to Courtney to carry out the swaps.She starts with Meggan/Jack of Hearts then Captain Britain/TweedleDope and finally Nightcrawler/The Clown(all the time surrounded by kamakazie custard pies!).That leaves only Phoenix but when Courtney tries to reverse the effects by using the device on her,there is no change.Rachel,eyes glazed,swings the axe in her hands at Courtney and only Kitty phasing Rachel at the last second saves her. Kitty then phases inside Rachel's body, guessing correctly that the image of Rachel in Kitty's thought would break her free.In a blast of custard pies which covers everyone,Rachel is free.

Later,the police arrive and take the Crazy Gang and Arcade away.Arcade laughs ,convinced he'll beat the rap.He tries to get Excalibur and Courtney to admit they actually had ....FUN!Kitty scolds Lockheed for allowing Miss Locke(and Mr. Chambers)to get away after she shook 'her bad-girl booty' at him!

Courtney's Apartment:A few days later,Courtney relaxes at home getting ready for a date with Brian.She feels re-energised after the whole MurderWorld experience....... as if she's been reborn.Suddenly ,she is aware of her front door being ajar and that she's not alone.She finds herself confronting her Doppleganger......Opal-Lun-Satyr9.

The Flying Finish Pub,London:Nightcrawler discusses Meggan and his relationship with a reluctant Brian.Brian says he has much in common with Courtney and she touches parts of him Meggan can't.Meggan's needy nature is also beginning to become a problem for him--he's not sure being the total focus of her life is something he can handle.Nightcrawler hopes he's able to deal with the consequences of any actions he takes.Brian leaves to meet Courtney..

Courtney's Apartment:Brian arrives to find her door open.When he sees her he suddenly realises she is practically Saturnyne's twin with her new look.He says she seems different but forgets that as she embraces him passionately.........on the groung is a slight shadow of a female form....all that remains of Courtney Ross!!:eek:



FIN

[jarrod]

LOL. Where are the scans of Miss Locke seducing Lockheed, I can't find them!

[limerick]

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/36894/796337-chambers1_large.jpg

Wow---she is so hot.How can a dragon resist?!!

[jarrod]

lol! <3 <3 <3



I miss Lockheed. :(

[limerick]

Thoughts on Excalibur # 5:

--Courtney Ross......dead.....reduced to dust on the carpet....NOOOOO!!Unbelievable!!Claremont spends 5 issues establishing her as a major player in this book ,involving her in the love triangle of Brian/Meggan/Courtney,showing her fiesty nature in the true Claremontian female fashion(which should make her indespensible),shows signs of a mutual friendship between herself and Kitty-----and then kills her off just like that.I didn't see that coming when I read this issue for the first time!

--More trouble for Brian's lovelife...Loki,The Sword is Drawn---explain those last few panels to me without making Brian look like a B*****D!---don't tell me he's not being unfaithful at the end there.He's going on a date with Courtney(without Meggan's knowledge ,I'm sure!)and when she(he believes it to be her)puckers up he's in there,no questions asked

*limerick ducks and closes his eyes waiting for a wrathful response*:biggrin:

--Nice to see Kitty back to her best.She's a formidable addition to any team with her powers and intellect.Arcade didn't stand a chance once she was on the case!

--Are Cat's Laughing a real band...or are they just a play on Kitty's secret identity?

--There's an incorrect editor's footnote on page 11.When talking about Kitty's last encounter with Arcade the footnote refers to Uncanny # 199....it's actually #197.....sloppy!

--Davis is a genius.You can tell the Crazy Gang/Excalibur swaps by the body lanuage alone.See page 2-3.The Clown IS Nightcrawler with that stance.

[Loki]

Thoughts on Excalibur # 5:
--More trouble for Brian's lovelife...Loki,The Sword is Drawn---explain those last few panels to me without making Brian look like a B*****D!---don't tell me he's not being unfaithful at the end there.He's going on a date with Courtney(without Meggan's knowledge ,I'm sure!)and when she(he believes it to be her)puckers up he's in there,no questions asked

I'm pretty certain Brian sleeps with Sat-Yr9 there, just after the issue ends. However, lets look at the whole sequence leading up to this.

Brian is in the pub with Nightcrawler. Kurt clearly knows what Brian is intending to do - e.g. go and see Courtney. Brian tells Kurt that what he is doing isn't really his business, and notes that he shares a background and interests with Courtney, can talk to her in a way he can't talk to Meggan, and expresses his concerns about how Meggan's desperate need for him, being the entire focus for his life, is something that he is unsure he can handle.

Remember that at this point Brian doesn't really know Kurt all that well - I seriously doubt he intends to sleep with Courtney, or even become romantically involved with her. That's a heck of a risky thing to confide to a person you barely know, doubly so when that person is a housemate of you and your girlfriend, triply so when he's a housemate of you, your girlfriend, AND two very judgemental women who've already clearly shown whose side they'd come down on if you stray. No, at this point, as far as Brian is concerned, he is simply going to see an old friend, an ex, who he has recently become reacquainted with, and who, through bereavement and the like, is currently the only person he can really confide in. Taking her flowers? Simply what a gentleman does.

Is Brian considering leaving Meggan and getting together with Courtney? I'd say the dialogue supports that, and if he wasn't conscious that he was comparing his new girlfriend to his ex, I'd say that Kurt has brought that into sharp focus for him. Is Brian intending to leave Meggan, or to cheat on her? I doubt it; at the moment the first option is merely a possibility, and the latter isn't his nature - if he did decide to go with Courtney, he'd break up with Meggan first (and that, along with the fact that him merely seeing Courtney would upset Meggan, probably covers his point about not knowing how to avoid hurting someone in all this).

Does this make Brian a bad person? I personally think not. Remember that he and Meggan have only been dating a few months, Marvel time, at this point. Doubts are normal this early on, and their relationship isn't as strong as it will become. Meggan has her doubts too, and, like Brian, flirts with the possibility of going with someone else (in her case Kurt, and she considers it less seriously than Brian does). And Meggan is a clingy girlfriend, who reacts either with barely concealed jealousy or by breaking down into fits of tears when Brian so much as looks at another woman - that kind of thing gets wearing. Again, as their relationship strengthens, Meggan improves on this front.

It's natural enough that having reencountered his ex, Brian finds himself comparing the two women - who wouldn't in similar circumstances? And that this comparing, tied with his existing doubts (his comments about Meggan's neediness would hold true even if there was no other woman in the equation), and with his finding his old feelings for Courtney stirring, are all leading him to question whether he is with the right woman. But again, at this point, I believe he merely intends to visit Courtney as a friend on this particular occasion - partly because of the above mentioned comment that he'd be incredibly dumb to tell Kurt where he was going if he had more dubious motives, and partly because of Brian's shocked reaction to the sex kitten look "Courtney" is sporting when he gets to her apartment and her coming on to him. Brian wasn't expecting to be getting any "action."

Where Brian is at fault is that yes, it is insensitive to go see an ex when you know your current girlfriend would be upset to find out you'd done so, whether or not you had intentions of cheating. Of course, it's also arguably unfair for your partner to dictate to you that you can't see an old friend just because you dated in the past.

And Brian almost certainly does sleep with Sat-Yr9 here. But on this point, he gets a pass, for one simple reason - as later stories make clearer, Sat-Yr9 has pheromone-based mind control powers. The moment Brian was exposed to those, he's no longer in control of his actions - this isn't like being drunk and it bringing out your true feelings - people under the influence of Sat-Yr9's pheromones can be made to kill and betray friends, and aren't in any way in control of themselves.

Also, and I guess this falls under spoilers because it discusses later issues, it's interesting to notice that this is pheromone-induced relationship doesn't last long. The only other sign of it is in Excalibur #20, a story written by a guest writer set just after this issue. It's a badly written story from the point of view of continuity, with absolutely no subtelty in it's portrayal of any of the characters, least of all Brian - but in that story, even under the pheromone-influence, when Brian goes out with Courtney, he is reluctant to go back into her apartment (though she eventually convinces him). Inferno follows soon after, and then the Cross-Time Caper, and by the time Excalibur gets home to Earth-616 Courtney is apparently off the table entirely as far as Brian is concerned. #20's fill in writer and story notwithstanding, it appears Chris Claremont only intended to have Brian slip this one time, and under very unusual circumstances - in the next 20 or so issues of writing Excalibur, CC never again suggests Brian and Courtney are involved, but instead builds up Brian and Meggan's relationship (yes, they have more bumps to come, but this is the low point).

[kk1]

Poor Courtney Ross, I can't believe she just gets vaporized like that.

[Nikolievitch]

Poor Courtney Ross, I can't believe she just gets vaporized like that.

Is she seriously dead?! If she is, I'm bummed out because I was really liking her, but I'm also kind of excited because it's so totally unexpected! As has been pointed out, Claremont has really spent time with her so far in this series. I haven't read any pre-Excalibur Captain Britain stuff, but I already feel like I know her and I definitely liked what I was seeing. If Claremont pulled Courtney's death out already, it makes me feel like I really can't have any assumptions about where this title will go.

Loved this issue. Captain Britain is so hot in his uniform, even when his body is possessed by a drooling idiot savant.:redface: I personally don't have a huge problem with Brian's actions at the end of this issue. The only thing I can see that he could have done differently is to have informed Meggan of his plans to see Courtney. Granted, she would have freaked out about it, but (I believe) unjustifiably. But even though I understand why he kept it from Meggan, the sheer fact that he DID keep it from her looks totally shady - even if it wasn't.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Thoughts on Excalibur # 5:

--Courtney Ross......dead.....reduced to dust on the carpet....NOOOOO!!Unbelievable!!Claremont spends 5 issues establishing her as a major player in this book ,involving her in the love triangle of Brian/Meggan/Courtney,showing her fiesty nature in the true Claremontian female fashion(which should make her indespensible),shows signs of a mutual friendship between herself and Kitty-----and then kills her off just like that.I didn't see that coming when I read this issue for the first time!

Yes. But you really don't see it coming.

For some people, of course, they won't have seen the significance of that guy porting into Sat-yr-9's cell. They won't know the background to the character. But the retconning of Courtney Ross being her alternate universe counterpart does make things very interesting indeed.

--More trouble for Brian's lovelife...Loki,The Sword is Drawn---explain those last few panels to me without making Brian look like a B*****D!---don't tell me he's not being unfaithful at the end there.He's going on a date with Courtney(without Meggan's knowledge ,I'm sure!)and when she(he believes it to be her)puckers up he's in there,no questions asked

*limerick ducks and closes his eyes waiting for a wrathful response*:biggrin:

I don't know whether you'd call it a date exactly. They are two very old friends. I don't think it's Brian's intention to cheat here. Although things between him and Meggan are a little shaky I don't think he's setting out with that in mind.

But let's also not forget who we're actually dealing with i the end. That dagger tattoo sure doesn't belong to Courtney. And while we cannot say with 100% certainty that Brian wasn't in some way willing given Sat-yr-9's abilities you cannot say with any certainty that Brian hasn't been persuaded by other means.

You can stop hiding now. :biggrin:

--Nice to see Kitty back to her best.She's a formidable addition to any team with her powers and intellect.Arcade didn't stand a chance once she was on the case!

This is why I've never felt Kitty has been right since leaving Excalibur. He she was allowed to develop in her element. On the X-Men she will always be either the kid of the group or a bit of a spare part. On Excalibur she was essential. She mattered. How I miss that.

--Are Cat's Laughing a real band...or are they just a play on Kitty's secret identity?

Oh no. They were a real band:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cats_Laughing

--There's an incorrect editor's footnote on page 11.When talking about Kitty's last encounter with Arcade the footnote refers to Uncanny # 199....it's actually #197.....sloppy!

Waves fist in direction of Marvel!

[--Davis is a genius.You can tell the Crazy Gang/Excalibur swaps by the body lanuage alone.See page 2-3.The Clown IS Nightcrawler with that stance.

The body language is really impressive, isn't it? It one of things which Davis does best.

I'm pretty certain Brian sleeps with Sat-Yr9 there, just after the issue ends. However, lets look at the whole sequence leading up to this.

Brian is in the pub with Nightcrawler. Kurt clearly knows what Brian is intending to do - e.g. go and see Courtney. Brian tells Kurt that what he is doing isn't really his business, and notes that he shares a background and interests with Courtney, can talk to her in a way he can't talk to Meggan, and expresses his concerns about how Meggan's desperate need for him, being the entire focus for his life, is something that he is unsure he can handle.

Remember that at this point Brian doesn't really know Kurt all that well - I seriously doubt he intends to sleep with Courtney, or even become romantically involved with her. That's a heck of a risky thing to confide to a person you barely know, doubly so when that person is a housemate of you and your girlfriend, triply so when he's a housemate of you, your girlfriend, AND two very judgemental women who've already clearly shown whose side they'd come down on if you stray. No, at this point, as far as Brian is concerned, he is simply going to see an old friend, an ex, who he has recently become reacquainted with, and who, through bereavement and the like, is currently the only person he can really confide in. Taking her flowers? Simply what a gentleman does.

I'd agree. And a very good point. Brian's a very old fashioned guy, at heart. Flowers are very much a gentleman's duty. It also wasn't really considered odd behavior in the 80s. A lot has changed in the last 2 decades.

Does this make Brian a bad person? I personally think not. Remember that he and Meggan have only been dating a few months, Marvel time, at this point. Doubts are normal this early on, and their relationship isn't as strong as it will become. Meggan has her doubts too, and, like Brian, flirts with the possibility of going with someone else (in her case Kurt, and she considers it less seriously than Brian does). And Meggan is a clingy girlfriend, who reacts either with barely concealed jealousy or by breaking down into fits of tears when Brian so much as looks at another woman - that kind of thing gets wearing. Again, as their relationship strengthens, Meggan improves on this front.

I think that one of the key strengths of early Excalibur is these scenes. Meggan and Brian's relationship teething troubles are portrayed very believably. Its something which Claremont does very well, here. Neither part is blameless, but both party's reactions can be understood.

And Brian almost certainly does sleep with Sat-Yr9 here. But on this point, he gets a pass, for one simple reason - as later stories make clearer, Sat-Yr9 has pheromone-based mind control powers. The moment Brian was exposed to those, he's no longer in control of his actions - this isn't like being drunk and it bringing out your true feelings - people under the influence of Sat-Yr9's pheromones can be made to kill and betray friends, and aren't in any way in control of themselves.

Exactly. We'll see more of those in action as we go through the series. But these are pretty nasty powers.

Knowing of them also superimposes an extra dimension of storry onto that of Kaptain Briton fleeing her dimension in Captain Britain's solo series. It makes him her puppet Captain in more ways than one. It arguably makes his fleeing more understandable.

If he finally managed to break free of her control he probably wanted to get as far away as possible from her, as quickly as possible. What better way than to jump dimensions and stick an alternate version of you in your place? There is definitely something of a desperation in the way he conducts himself in that story.

[limerick]

Loki,The Sword is Drawn and Nikolievitch.Congrats on your sterling defence of Brian----remember I'm not anti-C.B..I'm actually a big fan of his.......a couple of points though.....

TSID,you were unsure if it was really a date.But Courtney is in no doubt that it is.She says on page 27:It's as though I've been reborn...into a world of infinite possibilities!Tonight's date with Brian.....is the ultimate icing on that cake".I think her attitude gives the impression that she sees this as more than just two old friends together.......I think she feels they may have a future and she 's going to test the waters that night and see what's in store for them

Are Courtney and Brian connected on some level or does he have latent psychic powers---In the pub ,referring to the moment of Courtney's death, which he knows nothing about ,he says:"WHAT'S THAT!!....I thought....I felt...a..chill...something".In some way he had registered Courtney's death.

Brian does say to Kurt in the pub that he loves Meggan but almost immediately voices doubts about their relationship.I'm surprised he's told Kurt about their meeting/date.They're team-mates,sure,but only for a very short while.If I'm honest the whole thing confuses me.He says he loves Meggan but he's going tob another woman's apartment bringing her flowers and that woman has gained the impression this is a proper date.Does Brian know what he wants???I think not and to feel that way is oh-so-human.

EDIT:It's temptation....Brian's tempted by Courtney...and his slight doubts about his relationship with Meggan is fueling that temptation.

[Loki]

Loki,The Sword is Drawn and Nikolievitch.Congrats on your sterling defence of Brian----remember I'm not anti-C.B..I'm actually a big fan of his.......a couple of points though.....

TSID,you were unsure if it was really a date.But Courtney is in no doubt that it is.She says on page 27:It's as though I've been reborn...into a world of infinite possibilities!Tonight's date with Brian.....is the ultimate icing on that cake".I think her attitude gives the impression that she sees this as more than just two old friends together.......I think she feels they may have a future and she 's going to test the waters that night and see what's in store for them

Oh yes, I think Courtney saw the possibility of things developing, and unlike Brian she was unattached. Plus, her recent near death at Arcade's hands had brought things into focus. Ironically, Sat-Yr9 did Meggan a favour - I think Courtney stood a chance of winning Brian over, whereas Sat-Yr9's more direct approach didn't. Two points about Brian's personality where Sat-Yr9 pressed the wrong buttons if she wanted to get him away from Meggan.

First, Brian is very old fashioned in his outlook. If he'd spent time with Courtney and they'd admitted feelings were still there, and then he'd had time to think things over, he might well have then reluctantly hurt Meggan by breaking up with her so he could become involved with Courtney. However, cheating isn't part of his morals - I'd imagine that once he got away from Sat-Yr9's pheromones for a bit (like he did by going to NYC and then on the Cross-Time Caper), he'd be mortified about having slept with Sat-Yr9 behind Meggan's back (nb - note that this is only my supposition, but it's based on reading years of his comics).

And second, how Brian handles stuff he feels is bad / wrong for him - he's a total abstinence kind of guy. Notice in #4 how he leaves his pint untouched - it's the last time he drinks for over 90 issues. Brian isn't and wasn't an alcoholic - he's had minimal instances of drunkeness, and those under exceptional circumstances. He certainly has no problem stopping drinking (and can take a drink later when circumstances make it necessary, and then go straight back on the wagon, which isn't something an alcoholic can do). However, having had it pointed out to him that his housemates think he drinks too much (whether they are right, or just being righteous - Europeans have different attitudes to drinking than Americans do) he mulls it over, and just decides to quit outright. He may not get drunk often, but when he does, he lets himself lose control a bit (maudlin when grieving, belligerent when already angry), and he knows that's dangerous for someone with his kind of power, and unpleasant for those around him. The point being that we see this same pattern with "Courtney" - there's absolutely no sign that Brian makes any effort to spend time with or near her from here until after #50, apart from #20, which is set immediately after this issue. It's not explicitly stated, but it seems to me that Brian stays away from Courtney for a fair while after this.

Are Courtney and Brian connected on some level or does he have latent psychic powers---In the pub ,referring to the moment of Courtney's death, which he knows nothing about ,he says:"WHAT'S THAT!!....I thought....I felt...a..chill...something".In some way he had registered Courtney's death.
Not that we know of. However, it's often been forgotten by writers that (at least at this point) Brian has enhanced senses. Plus, as later issues reveal he's attuned to the friction between different realities, so interdimensional travel in his vicinity may well trigger a sensation, even if he doesn't know what it portends.

Brian does say to Kurt in the pub that he loves Meggan but almost immediately voices doubts about their relationship.I'm surprised he's told Kurt about their meeting/date.Their team-mates,sure,but only for a very short while.If I'm honest the whole thing confuses me.He says he loves Meggan but he's going tob another woman's apartment bringing her flowers and that woman has gained the impression this is a proper date.Does Brian know what he wants???I think not and to feel that way is oh-so-human.
Exactly - however Courtney views it, I honestly don't think Brian is thinking of it as a date. Taking a lady flowers isn't automatically a romantic act, so much as good manners, from Brian's old fashioned viewpoint.

[kk1]

Thoughts on Excalibur # 5:


--Davis is a genius.You can tell the Crazy Gang/Excalibur swaps by the body lanuage alone.See page 2-3.The Clown IS Nightcrawler with that stance.


You can't say enough about Alan Davis besides the amazing consistency and accuracy of his art he adds so many little touches that enhance the story that other artists just don't do. Too bad he didn't do a run on X-men when Claremont originally asked him to. I can only imagine how awesome those stories would have been.

[limerick]

You can't say enough about Alan Davis besides the amazing consistency and accuracy of his art he adds so many little touches that enhance the story that other artists just don't do. Too bad he didn't do a run on X-men when Claremont originally asked him to. I can only imagine how awesome those stories would have been.
From what David R. said previously,he just didn't have quite enough confidence to take Uncanny on full time.It's a shame,although I think Davis is better suited to a more humourous book like Excalibur which he is granted the freedom to make his own.I feel his hands would have been a little tied on Uncanny.

[DungeonmasterJim]

For me, these first few issues were the heyday of Excalibur. I enjoyed these issues imensely and preferred the book over the other X-Men books. Of course, that was mainly because Rachel was awesome back then and Davis was and still is my favorite artist. And I agree that he works best on a book that showcases some humor. He's so great with body language and I think that really helps with humor.

These are some if not my absolute favorite comics of all time.

DM Jim

[kk1]

I think Davis' art actually looks worse with modern coloring techniques a shame his art will never look as good as this again.

[slam]

This was a great issue. One of my favorite comics ever. "Spartan dog!" "Saracen Pig!"

I only ever read the Davis written and drawn issues once. (#26-50?) I remember it fondly, though.

Is there a TPB of this run?

[DungeonmasterJim]

This was a great issue. One of my favorite comics ever. "Spartan dog!" "Saracen Pig!"

I only ever read the Davis written and drawn issues once. (#26-50?) I remember it fondly, though.

Is there a TPB of this run?

26-50? Not sure but I think so.

My tpb's are called Excalibur Classic followed by a number on the spine but usually a title on the cover.

DM Jim

[limerick]

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/9241/711759-rachel_summers_large.jpg

The Beautiful Rachel----Excalibur's Powerhouse!!

[limerick]

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/9690/228901-36076-captain-britain_large.jpg

Love him or hate him(I love him!)----You can't ignore him.The ever changing Captain Britain in his initial Excalibur costume.Ready to kick some no-gooders arse,no doubt

[limerick]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.6.GIF

Excalibur # 3...................March 1988

"Goblin Night"

Claremont/Davis/Neary

The Excalibur Lighthouse:Rachel lies asleep in bed but her mind is very much awake experiencing images of what's currently happening in N.Y.(see current X-men and X-factor for the INFERNO storyline).Something suddenly wakes her,she screams:"MOM!" and then launches herself through various floors of the lighthouse waking her team-mates en route.Bursting through the roof,spectacularly flashing an awesome Phoenix-effect,she heads for N.Y. at full pelt to save her baby brother.The rest of Excalibur check that everyone is okay.All are (miraculously)unhurt but Kitty's clothes have been telekinetically altered to those of a baby as Rachel was thinking of her brother as she passed her.Brian wonders is that effect similar to what her mother used to do as Phoenix.Kitty repliesthat Rachel's not her mom(or at least she hopes she isn't).Kitty explains that she's mindlinked to her brother and what happened means he must be in danger.She sensed a thoughtflash of 'New York' from her.Nightcrawler tells them to get costumed up----they're heading for New York.

Euston Station,London:Commander Dai Thomas arrives at Euston Train Staion,having been summoned from his bed in the middle oo the night:true to character,he's not impressed!He is introduced to Brigadier Alysande Stuart of the Weird Happenings Organization(W.H.O.),an organization that specializes in events outside the norm of human experience and natural law.He is unimpressed when she shows him the source of their enquiries---a Nazi train!He dismisses it as a possible movie prop.......Dr. Alistaire Stuart(Alysande's brother)emerges from beneath the train to tell him that whatever this train is...it certainly hasn't come from Earth.Alistaire feels the train has come from a parralel Earth where the Nazis won the Second World War....Dai is unimpressed by a few insignias on the train.....but Alistaire isn't finished...he presents the trains only two passengers....Nazi versions of Dr. Moira MacTaggart and her bodyguard,Callisto.....it seems British Rail's Highland Flyer left for London but this train arrived in it's place......

High Altitude,Over The Atlantic Ocean:Phoenix accelerates at amazing speed towards N.Y..She finds herself drawn to the stars and wonders if her mother felt like that and if the Phoenix power will consume her as it did Jean Grey.Arriving in New York she can not sense her brother.She is taken by the awesome heat in the city and shocked to find the Empire State Building appears to be growing in size.When she approches the building she sees an erotically-dressed woman.....who she recognises to be her mother!.....thinking she's dreaming she calls out to Madelyne Pryor who replies by blasting her with pure energy,sending Phoenix sprawling.Some demons grab her and hurl her towards the Empire State Building....she begins to be absorbed into the structure which is made up of ..people!....hands grab her while voices implore her to let go of her humanity....

Mid-Atlantic:The rest of Excalibur make much slower progress----Brian and Meggan's flight speed is limited by the physical punishment their passengers,Nightcrawler and Shadowcat can endure.They are forced to make a pitstop on a passing cargo ship when Kitty is caught short....Megganis affected by the admiring glances of the ship's sailors and finds herself transforming to a form matching their desires....until Nightcrawler jumps in telling the crew to mind their manners....Excalibur continues on their journey.

Empire State Building,Manhattan:Rachel is carried away by the phsical pleasure she is experiencing as part of the living wall.....but when her hand starts to change to a more demonic form she recovers her force of mind and manages to break free....but the experience has weakened her and she drifts slowly to the ground unable to stop her descent.On the ground she lands through the window of a bridal shop.A mannequin's hand reaches down to her offering her help....

As they arrive in N.Y. Meggan tells Kurt she is ashamed of the way she acted on the boat...but she couldn't control herself.....he compares her changes as similar to those a chameleon makes and explains she should be able to learn how to control them with practice....they are suddenly shocked by the huge Empire State Building which has grown far bigger than it'soriginal size.They split up ;Meggan and Kurt reconnoitering the E.S.Building while Kitty and Brian check out the streets below.

As Meggan flies Kurt around the huge Building they encounter demons....suddenly Meggan is iovercome by the evil around her and throws Kurt to the demons who catch him.She heads for the building where N'astirh greets her with open arms .She tells him she wants to help him(much to Kurt's horror) and he obliges by feeding on her soul...changing her to The Goblin Princess,a dark version of the real Meggan.She approaches Kurt to strip his humanity from him but he escapes..faced with no other escape route than to jump to the ground ,he does so but manages to slow his descent by using the flying demons as 'stepping stones' he bounces off to get to the surface.Unfortunately,he falls the last 50 feet or so and takes a heavy knock....as he drifts into unconciousness he sees Rachel standing over him......a statuesque manniquin,unmoving in the shop window beside him....he passes out.

Brian and Kitty help save civilians from the demonic events occuring around them.Suddenly Meggan/The Goblin Princess appears,shocking them with her altered appearance.Meggan pulls Brian into a nearby movie theatre using film stock.Kitty phases into the building after them but as she tries to pass through the wall,she experiences great pain....and passes out.When she wakes she finds herself a character in a 'Rambo'-type movie...facing her arch-enemy....who happens to be a brain-washed,armed-to-the-teeth Brian Braddock who has one thing on his mind...killing her!!

FIN

[FeminineMystique]

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/9241/711759-rachel_summers_large.jpg

The Beautiful Rachel----Excalibur's Powerhouse!!

That outfit is pure sex. How can anyone dislike Rachel? :biggrin:

[ReboundTerminator]

man i loved the inferno crossover. it came out a year or two before i started buying comics but i loved it when i completed my inferno collection. the two excalibur issues were great and i loved how they incorporated the team into the inferno story line without running into the xmen. fun fun times

[limerick]

man i loved the inferno crossover. it came out a year or two before i started buying comics but i loved it when i completed my inferno collection. the two excalibur issues were great and i loved how they incorporated the team into the inferno story line without running into the xmen. fun fun times
You're right about how this story blends in with the rest of INFERNO,ReboundTerminator.It's great how Claremont brings in points of INFERNO without having them actually meet the X-men----something which he wouldn't have wanted to happen for a while yet.

[limerick]

That outfit is pure sex. How can anyone dislike Rachel? :biggrin:
She is hot!!!Literally!!

[limerick]

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/15238/300243-183867-meggan_large.jpg

The Goblin Princess/(Meggan gone Bad!!)....F**K....That's a little naughty....

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/6754/171490-150641-meggan_large.jpg

Here's one a little more like the comic.......a little more flesh covered to stick to COMIC CODE guidelines!!

[The Sword Is Drawn]

man i loved the inferno crossover. it came out a year or two before i started buying comics but i loved it when i completed my inferno collection. the two excalibur issues were great and i loved how they incorporated the team into the inferno story line without running into the xmen. fun fun times

It was a great tie-in, without compromising the title. Very respectful of both parties. I loved it, too.

[DungeonmasterJim]

I'm thinking Claremont really enjoyed the Alan Davis Hound costume to the red redesign. Throughout Excalibur during Claremont's writing I think 6 different characters found their way into Rachel's outfit. Not that I minded since I think it looks awesome when drawn by Davis...

From memory though: Kitty, the mannequin, some Russian colonel, Illyana and Megan all wore Rachel's costume at one time or another.


DM Jim

[Askani's Flame]

Did she scream "Mom" or "Nathan" in this issue? I don't remember her screaming Mom since Jean was still "dead" at this point (well to Rachel at least). It's been a while since I read this issue, but I totally thought it was Nathan.

The imagery of her exploding from the top of the lighthouse is pure ecstasy, as well as her red outfit.

[creaky]

Some serious Kurtage here: I love how his heart is finally used in a team dynamic, how he's acutely aware of Meggan's problems in a way the others aren't and how last issue he was trying to reach out to Brian. He's also already taking charge and giving orders even though he won't be the official leader for quite a while yet. (And he's gone from comic relief to a sex bomb in tight white pajamas. Go Davis!)
And this scene just might be his best one ever:
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n69/roilier/exc6_leap.jpg
Those were the days.

Kitty's predicament out above the middle of the ocean and this exchange between her and CB:
"Can't you...y'know...phase?"
"Captain, that's DISGUSTING!"
is one of my favorite scenes of all time.<3
Also, she totally can and, given how disgusting the toilet on that ship was, she totally did. I wonder what happens to phased pee/poop? Does it just fall through the planet out into space? Does it stay phased or solidify after a while? I wonder if she did it often.

[kk1]

Some serious Kurtage here: I love how his heart is finally used in a team dynamic, how he's acutely aware of Meggan's problems in a way the others aren't and how last issue he was trying to reach out to Brian. He's also already taking charge and giving orders even though he won't be the official leader for quite a while yet. (And he's gone from comic relief to a sex bomb in tight white pajamas. Go Davis!)
And this scene just might be his best one ever:

Those were the days.

Kitty's predicament out above the middle of the ocean and this exchange between her and CB:
"Can't you...y'know...phase?"
"Captain, that's DISGUSTING!"
is one of my favorite scenes of all time.<3
Also, she totally can and, given how disgusting the toilet on that ship was, she totally did. I wonder what happens to phased pee/poop? Does it just fall through the planet out into space? Does it stay phased or solidify after a while? I wonder if she did it often.

Kitty has to be in contact to keep an object phased so...

[limerick]

Did she scream "Mom" or "Nathan" in this issue? I don't remember her screaming Mom since Jean was still "dead" at this point (well to Rachel at least). It's been a while since I read this issue, but I totally thought it was Nathan.

The imagery of her exploding from the top of the lighthouse is pure ecstasy, as well as her red outfit.
On page 1,as she wakes, the letters ,"MOM!",are visible to the right of her face---it is a shout but whether it is vocalized or a psychic shout is unclear---it isn't contained within the traditional thought bubble.In the dream she had been having--actually a psychic message from Nathan--she sees Jean in her X-factor costume (as well as Madelyne and N'astirh).

On page 2 as she bursts through the lighthouse roof she shouts,"NATHAN!"-----so we're both right!:wink:

[limerick]

I'm thinking Claremont really enjoyed the Alan Davis Hound costume to the red redesign. Throughout Excalibur during Claremont's writing I think 6 different characters found their way into Rachel's outfit. Not that I minded since I think it looks awesome when drawn by Davis...

From memory though: Kitty, the mannequin, some Russian colonel, Illyana and Megan all wore Rachel's costume at one time or another.


DM Jim
But I'm sure no-one fills it like Rachel.I can't remember the appearances other than Kitty recently(issue 1?)but am looking foward to them!

[limerick]

Some serious Kurtage here: I love how his heart is finally used in a team dynamic, how he's acutely aware of Meggan's problems in a way the others aren't and how last issue he was trying to reach out to Brian. He's also already taking charge and giving orders even though he won't be the official leader for quite a while yet. (And he's gone from comic relief to a sex bomb in tight white pajamas. Go Davis!)
And this scene just might be his best one ever:
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n69/roilier/exc6_leap.jpg
Those were the days.


I love the way he 'jumps' the demons down to the surface---definitely a high point for Kurt!

[yanapryde]

I love love love Alan Davis' artwork on Excalibur!
He's amazing. Utterly amazing.

[limerick]

Thoughts on Excalibur # 6:

--Loki,The Sword is Drawn,I'm coming around to your way of thinking and am trying to see things from Brian's point of view.Being an X-men fan coming to this book because of Kurt,Kitty and Rachel rather than a Captain Britain fan coming to the book because of Brian,there is always a tendency to be biased towards them.An example would be in the opening scene where Kurt judges both Meggan and Brian and makes assumptions about what's happening between them---purely on the risque nightdress Meggan is wearing.I suppose he's assuming Meggan is trying to wear something more in the Courtney Ross mode but it's a pretty big jump he makes judging their relationship on an item of clothing...it's not really fair and quite unlike Kurt.He's letting his attraction for Meggan colour his judgement.

--Rachel seems to be out of control a little.It's worrying to see her doing things similar to Jean Grey before she became Dark Phoenix--see Kitty's clothes transmutation.Also did she have to trash Brian's house when exiting.A couple of seconds is all it would have taken to use the door.Considering the long journey ahead of her,a few seconds wouldn't have made a difference.It's selfish or maybe she wasn't fully in control of her senses when she did it which is more worrying considering the power she controls.

--Another aspect of Rachel I find puzzling is how she seems to be protrayed as slightly weak psychicly at times.She succumbed to The Executioner's personality in the last (Arcade)story.Here she again falls under some sort of mental influence assuming a mannequin-like appearance at the end.She almost falls for the attraction of the physical pleasure of the wall of the Empire State Building....she was supposed to be saving Nathan.She seems to have awesome psychic power but little resistance to being controlled psychicly ,which I thought she would have given her power.In some ways she has been Excalibur's weak link up to now----surprising...

[limerick]

More Thoughts on Excalibur # 6:

--Creaky,I had always assumed she had used the crap crapper on the ship!Maybe she did use her phasing power....?

--Meggan's transformation on the ship---was this an important ongoing story plot....or was it just sewing the seeds of her transformation later in N.Y. where she is overcome by the evil in the city causing her to 'go bad'.Will it be followed up or was it purely to move the INFERNO story along??I found her change in N.Y. so shocking as she is normally so pure a person.She seemed to embrace evil frightfully easily.:eek:

[Nikolievitch]

Yeah, it seemed in this issue like Rachel was relapsing a little bit to the way she was portrayed in Uncanny X-Men - a loose cannon, prone to freak out. Because I got the impression that she was out of control with panic, not that she consciously chose to damage the lighthouse. I guess that's understandable, though, considering what Nathan was going through at the time. I've already gotten used to the more self-assured Rachel that we've seen in Excalibur so far, but I guess everyone has their weaknesses!

I love how this Inferno tie-in is, so far, being used to enhance character development! God, this series is good! We get the chance to see how individuals like Rachel, Kurt and Meggan really react to the mayhem they're witnessing in NYC. I'm loving the other Inferno books too, but Excalibur has, so far, basically done no wrong for me. My favorite X-book of its time!

[creaky]

More Thoughts on Excalibur # 6:

--Creaky,I had always assumed she had used the crap crapper on the ship!Maybe she did use her phasing power....?

It's the way she shuts Captain Britain up when he asks about it that led me to think it.

--Meggan's transformation on the ship---was this an important ongoing story plot....or was it just sewing the seeds of her transformation later in N.Y. where she is overcome by the evil in the city causing her to 'go bad'.Will it be followed up or was it purely to move the INFERNO story along??I found her change in N.Y. so shocking as she is normally so pure a person.She seemed to embrace evil frightfully easily.:eek:

It's an ongoing story plot.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Did she scream "Mom" or "Nathan" in this issue? I don't remember her screaming Mom since Jean was still "dead" at this point (well to Rachel at least). It's been a while since I read this issue, but I totally thought it was Nathan.

It is definitely MOM initially. I actually like how the connection is highlighted here. Far too often Rachel has been written as an analogue for Jean, with no real connection to her. That's not the case. She may be from another time, but Jean and Scott ARE her parents. She's going to feel very connected to them.

The imagery of her exploding from the top of the lighthouse is pure ecstasy, as well as her red outfit.

Totally. It's a great visual.

Some serious Kurtage here: I love how his heart is finally used in a team dynamic, how he's acutely aware of Meggan's problems in a way the others aren't and how last issue he was trying to reach out to Brian. He's also already taking charge and giving orders even though he won't be the official leader for quite a while yet. (And he's gone from comic relief to a sex bomb in tight white pajamas. Go Davis!)

Yes. Kurt really is expanded in all the best ways on this title. I think that's why I generally object to the more modern, and vey two-dimensional, religious Kurt we see in today's X-Books. Because I look back at how he was and cannot even see the barest beginnings of how, say, Fraction's Kurt and Excalibur's Kurt can be the same person.

Kitty's predicament out above the middle of the ocean and this exchange between her and CB:
"Can't you...y'know...phase?"
"Captain, that's DISGUSTING!"
is one of my favorite scenes of all time.<3

You know, what I find interesting is there is a certain odd kind of chemistry between Brian and Kitty in scenes like this. Knowing now that in an earlier version of Claremont's Excalibur pitch he had Kitty and Brian as a couple, does make me rather rethink a lot of their interactions together.

Also, she totally can and, given how disgusting the toilet on that ship was, she totally did. I wonder what happens to phased pee/poop? Does it just fall through the planet out into space? Does it stay phased or solidify after a while? I wonder if she did it often.

And now the thread just got weird.

--Loki,The Sword is Drawn,I'm coming around to your way of thinking and am trying to see things from Brian's point of view.Being an X-men fan coming to this book because of Kurt,Kitty and Rachel rather than a Captain Britain fan coming to the book because of Brian,there is always a tendency to be biased towards them.An example would be in the opening scene where Kurt judges both Meggan and Brian and makes assumptions about what's happening between them---purely on the risque nightdress Meggan is wearing.I suppose he's assuming Meggan is trying to wear something more in the Courtney Ross mode but it's a pretty big jump he makes judging their relationship on an item of clothing...it's not really fair and quite unlike Kurt.He's letting his attraction for Meggan colour his judgement.

Indeed he is. Even if he does not realise it. It's actually what I like the most about this (kind of) love triangle. Well, it's not quite a love triangle. It's not quoite a triangle, either... But the reactions of all involved are believable. Nobody is truly without blame, but nobody is doing anything out of character or out of the normal realms of good old fashioned human nature.

--Rachel seems to be out of control a little.It's worrying to see her doing things similar to Jean Grey before she became Dark Phoenix--see Kitty's clothes transmutation.Also did she have to trash Brian's house when exiting.A couple of seconds is all it would have taken to use the door.Considering the long journey ahead of her,a few seconds wouldn't have made a difference.It's selfish or maybe she wasn't fully in control of her senses when she did it which is more worrying considering the power she controls.

I think it's important to remember that while Rachel does wield immense power, and very creatively so, she is still learning to control it to an extent. When you wield the Phoenix force reacting on impulse can cause a lot of chaos in its wake. Plus, it makes for one hell of a visual.

--Another aspect of Rachel I find puzzling is how she seems to be protrayed as slightly weak psychicly at times.She succumbed to The Executioner's personality in the last (Arcade)story.Here she again falls under some sort of mental influence assuming a mannequin-like appearance at the end.She almost falls for the attraction of the physical pleasure of the wall of the Empire State Building....she was supposed to be saving Nathan.She seems to have awesome psychic power but little resistance to being controlled psychicly ,which I thought she would have given her power.In some ways she has been Excalibur's weak link up to now----surprising...

It's not so much a psychic attack though, as being effected by demonic magic. Not wanting to use 'It's magic' as a catchall explanation, but the way that Inferno had consumed New York there are very few people who weren't ensnared by its spell.

[creaky]

It is definitely MOM initially. I actually like how the connection is highlighted here. Far too often Rachel has been written as an analogue for Jean, with no real connection to her. That's not the case. She may be from another time, but Jean and Scott ARE her parents. She's going to feel very connected to them.



Totally. It's a great visual.



Yes. Kurt really is expanded in all the best ways on this title. I think that's why I generally object to the more modern, and vey two-dimensional, religious Kurt we see in today's X-Books. Because I look back at how he was and cannot even see the barest beginnings of how, say, Fraction's Kurt and Excalibur's Kurt can be the same person.



You know, what I find interesting is there is a certain odd kind of chemistry between Brian and Kitty in scenes like this. Knowing now that in an earlier version of Claremont's Excalibur pitch he had Kitty and Brian as a couple, does make me rather rethink a lot of their interactions together.



And now the thread just got weird.



Indeed he is. Even if he does not realise it. It's actually what I like the most about this (kind of) love triangle. Well, it's not quite a love triangle. It's not quoite a triangle, either... But the reactions of all involved are believable. Nobody is truly without blame, but nobody is doing anything out of character or out of the normal realms of good old fashioned human nature.



I think it's important to remember that while Rachel does wield immense power, and very creatively so, she is still learning to control it to an extent. When you wield the Phoenix force reacting on impulse can cause a lot of chaos in its wake. Plus, it makes for one hell of a visual.



It's not so much a psychic attack though, as being effected by demonic magic. Not wanting to use 'It's magic' as a catchall explanation, but the way that Inferno had consumed New York there are very few people who weren't ensnared by its spell.

A little nitpick: the last phrases you quoted weren't by me. I stopped at the analysis of Kitty's bathroom habits.

[Loki]

Thoughts on Excalibur # 6:

--Loki,The Sword is Drawn,I'm coming around to your way of thinking and am trying to see things from Brian's point of view.Being an X-men fan coming to this book because of Kurt,Kitty and Rachel rather than a Captain Britain fan coming to the book because of Brian,there is always a tendency to be biased towards them.An example would be in the opening scene where Kurt judges both Meggan and Brian and makes assumptions about what's happening between them---purely on the risque nightdress Meggan is wearing.I suppose he's assuming Meggan is trying to wear something more in the Courtney Ross mode but it's a pretty big jump he makes judging their relationship on an item of clothing...it's not really fair and quite unlike Kurt.He's letting his attraction for Meggan colour his judgement.
Absolutely. Kurt is imposing his own assumptions on to Meggan, assuming he knows what she'd normally wear to bed, and his attraction to Meggan means the spin he puts on her choice of clothing is that Brian is somehow at fault. But then, he's falling prey to her powers too, so it's not entirely his fault. Most people can't help but like her, because she always clicks with them emotionally.

--Rachel seems to be out of control a little.It's worrying to see her doing things similar to Jean Grey before she became Dark Phoenix--see Kitty's clothes transmutation.Also did she have to trash Brian's house when exiting.A couple of seconds is all it would have taken to use the door.Considering the long journey ahead of her,a few seconds wouldn't have made a difference.It's selfish or maybe she wasn't fully in control of her senses when she did it which is more worrying considering the power she controls.

--Another aspect of Rachel I find puzzling is how she seems to be protrayed as slightly weak psychicly at times.She succumbed to The Executioner's personality in the last (Arcade)story.Here she again falls under some sort of mental influence assuming a mannequin-like appearance at the end.She almost falls for the attraction of the physical pleasure of the wall of the Empire State Building....she was supposed to be saving Nathan.She seems to have awesome psychic power but little resistance to being controlled psychicly ,which I thought she would have given her power.In some ways she has been Excalibur's weak link up to now----surprising...
Not as surprising as you think, if you go back and look at her history. She's immensely powerful, but she's still young and relatively inexperienced, and she's been a victim of mental conditioning several times - Ahab and Mojo, the latter only very recently. Her raw offensive power is huge, but her defences have been whittled away and are comparatively weak, at least at this juncture. She puts up a tough front, but she's damaged and fragile inside.

--Meggan's transformation on the ship---was this an important ongoing story plot....or was it just sewing the seeds of her transformation later in N.Y. where she is overcome by the evil in the city causing her to 'go bad'.Will it be followed up or was it purely to move the INFERNO story along??I found her change in N.Y. so shocking as she is normally so pure a person.She seemed to embrace evil frightfully easily.
It is a plot point, as others have confirmed. Meggan, like Rachel, has yet to build up her defences to outside influences. We see this both in small ways (her turning blue and nearly kissing Nightcrawler an issue or two back), and in larger ways (falling prey to the demonic vibes). Luckily she's also very resilient - most of the other individuals who had their humanity eaten by N'astirh (and were thus turned into demons) never regained their humanity (Hobgoblin is the only other exception, but only because his demonic side eventually split off into Demogoblin).