Excalibur from the Beginning [Archive] - Page 2

limerick

07-13-2009, 02:59 PM

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.7.GIF

Excalibur # 7...................April 1988

"Goblin Morn!"

Claremont/Davis/Neary

Manhattan:Crotus,goblin servant of N'astirh walks the streets of New York lamenting N'astirh's lack of appreciation for his loyalty.....He has been burnt badly in the encounter with The X-terminators but has emerged with his master's spellbook,now that N'astirh has absorbed it's knowledge and has no further need for it.As he walks outside the Empire State Building he sees "mannequin" Rachel and somehow recognises(?) her as the Pheonix.Seeing a golden oppurtunity to gain her awesome power he intends using the spellbook to bind her to his will.....she is powerless to resist in her current catatonic state brought about by INFERNO..

Meanwhile,Kitty finds herself trapped within a living movie in a nearby cinema.....Captain Britain,under the influence of The Goblin Princess,tries to kill her but she phases in time to save herself....Brian is plaing the part of "Fast Buck",a Rambo-type character and she is playing his enemy,hence his efforts to kill her.She manages to floor him and pulls a knife on him....suddenly,for a brief moment he is himself again,wondering why Kitty wants to kill him....she realises she has become sucked into the role as well and can only just contain herself from killing him.....Suddenly the scenario changes and they find themselves in another movie---a "Nightmare on Elm Street clone".Brian becomes a bloodthirsty "Freddy Kruger" while Kitty(much to her annoyance!) is a cheerleader.

Elsewhere,Nightcrawler lies unconcious on the pavement outside the Empire State Building,following his precarious descent(last issue).He is swallowed whole by a N.Y.C. sanitation truck winding up trapped within it's inards....but he is not alone!Several other NewYorkers are also trapped inside and when they see him they take him to be one of the demons responsible for INFERNO and attack him....he defends himself trying to explain the truth but they won't listen....the fighting causes the truck to suffer from an "upset stomach" and eventually it "vomits" them back up,setting them all free....the other people flee,taking advantage of their opportunity for freedom leaving Kurt wondering about this whole strange occurance...

Kitty finds herself in a nightmarish version of Xavier's school being persued by Brian's "Freddy Kreuger".....although she tries to control it,terror grips her---part of the effect of playing the movie role,again her emotions are not quite her own....Worse still when "Freddy" tries to slash her with his claws she finds she is having trouble phasing and feels the painful claws cutting her arm...she flees through a set of doors with "Freddy" hot on her tail..

Kurt gathers his thoughts on a roof,recounting the nights events to himself....he is startled when a building Gargoyle next to him starts talking to him....the Gargoyle explains he is not a demon but has simply been animated by the INFERNO effect....Kurt says his goodbyes as he goes looking for his team-mates....

On the ground he rescues a young woman,Octavia,who is being attacked by a seemingly sentient mannequin....she tells him that the mannequins have been switching places with people,turning them into shop-display mannequins while the mannequins roam the streets.....they seek refuge in the Sci-fi store,Forbidden Planet,where staff have discovered many of their toys have become functional giving them access to high tech defence equipment(at last,a break!)....As the mannequins burst through the shop window the staff open fire with their lasers,ripping them to pieces....but within seconds they reform by putting random body pieces together....the battle is just beginning!

The Cinema:Kitty burst into a room where she finds The Goblin Princess(Meggan) and "Freddy Kreuger"(Brian) surrounded by demonic forms of her former team-mates chained to the ceiling...Kitty is outraged at this depiction of her 'slain' team-mates and starts to manifest Illyana's eldritch armour.....startled by this,The Goblin Princess quickly changes the scenario---Kitty finds herself dressed in an evening gown,serenaded by a big band......Brian(tuxed up!) takes her hand and starts to dance with her but he continues spinning her around and around at fantastic speed....Under The Goblin Queen's orders,he means to dance her to death!

Forbidden Planet:In the middle of an all-out battle between tooled-up Forbidden Planet staff(living their dreams!) and rogue mannequins,Kurt notices one of the mannequins is wearing Rachel's costume....Realising she has been switched he grabs the mannequin hoping to reverse the swap but suddenly finds himself surrounded by several mannequins and hampered by the Rachel dummy.....At the last minute a hand reaches down and lifts him up to safety....the Gargoyle from earlier has come to his rescue.

The Cinema:Kitty uses all her dance training to keep up with Brian.....but after a while it becomes obvious that he is the one stating to falter---much to Kitty's surprise......As he drops to his knees gasping for air ,The Goblin Princess angrily departs taking him with her...

Elsewhere,with a demon priest,Crotus starts casting a spell to bond Rachel to him which involves a bizarre wedding cermony.....as the dark magic starts to take effect,Rachel's face starts to decay(for lack of a better description!)

In her demonic residence,surrounded by her demon followers as well Brian(on a lead!),The Goblin Princess awaits the permanant transformation of New York and the world with glee.....Kitty burst in wearing the full armour of Illyana as well as weilding the Soulsword...When Meggan sets Brian on her he rushes at her intent on violence butshe strikes him with the sword which frees him from the spell holding him and returns him to Captain Britain,although he passes out from the shock of the transformation...Kitty faces The Goblin Queen,who transforms her to a more demonic form....But Meggan is suddenly weakened(Madelyne's death?) and Kitty takes her oppurtunity hurling the Soulsword at her....There is a brilliant flash of light as the sword plunges into Meggan's body....

The Chapel:As the demon priest utters the last few words of the 'marraige' cermony between Crotus and Rachel which will complete the spell being cast,Kurt suddenly bursts in and knocks the priest out who reverts to human form.....Kurt and the Gargoyle throw the spellbook and the mannequin into the energy vortex surrounding Rachel hoping it will reverse the spell which(in true Marvel fashion,yeah!)it does---Rachel is herself again in an awesome flare of the Phoenix-effect,which towers over N.Y.....but there is a casualty....the Gargoyle has reverted to stone and has been destroyed by the energy blast.:frown:

The Cinema:Meggan(herself again) and Brian comfort themselves over their ordeal while Kitty wonders to herself how the Soulsword cut Brian physically--it shouldn't have??..

Crotus flees the scene looking for N'astirh...begging that he'll take him back

FIN

creaky

07-14-2009, 12:26 AM

Ahhh, the epic love story between Kurt and a gargoyle.

kk1

07-14-2009, 09:09 AM

limerick

07-14-2009, 02:12 PM

Ahhh, the epic love story between Kurt and a gargoyle.
Hey,Creaky,was that Gargoyle male/female?...I never thought of that before!

creaky

07-14-2009, 02:13 PM

Hey,Creaky,was that Gargoyle male/female?...I never thought of that before!

I don't think it was ever stated?

limerick

07-14-2009, 02:14 PM

Imraith Nimphais

07-14-2009, 02:20 PM

Meggan as the Goblin Princess is WI-CKED HAWT!...(I just felt the need to say this.)

kk1

07-14-2009, 02:28 PM

Hey,Creaky,was that Gargoyle male/female?...I never thought of that before!

She was a goyle as Popeye would say (I yam wut I yam ) :wink:

kk1

07-14-2009, 02:30 PM

Meggan as the Goblin Princess is WI-CKED HAWT!...(I just felt the need to say this.)

It's too bad Alan Davis didn't do the other X-books during Inferno.

limerick

07-14-2009, 02:34 PM

I don't think it was ever stated?
Just read the last panel on page 20,where the Gargoyle,referring to himself,says "Gentlemen are an endangered species these days"....so he's male....nice guy...one of Marvels shortest lived heroes:frown:

limerick

07-14-2009, 02:36 PM

Meggan as the Goblin Princess is WI-CKED HAWT!...(I just felt the need to say this.)
As usual,Imraith,you're spot on.....she is SMOKING!!!

creaky

07-14-2009, 02:38 PM

Just read the last panel on page 20,where the Gargoyle,referring to himself,says "Gentlemen are an endangered species these days"....so he's male....nice guy...one of Marvels shortest lived heroes:frown:

Awwwwwww. And a gay Kurt admirer. That's so sad. I demand a resurrection.

Imraith Nimphais

07-14-2009, 02:41 PM

It's too bad Alan Davis didn't do the other X-books during Inferno.

I may have to disagree with you here, somewot...Silvestri did a great job over in Uncanny and Simonson knocked it across the grounds for a six, over in X-Factor...now...Davis on the New Mutants instead of Blahvins, well...that would have been some sort of demonic beauty-full, indeed!:biggrin:

limerick

07-14-2009, 02:44 PM

1987 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1990
See what you did there..verrrry cool!

Imraith Nimphais

07-14-2009, 02:47 PM

As usual,Imraith,you're spot on.....she is SMOKING!!!

Allo, Limerick...I trust your lil vacation was indeed restfull and relaxing with some good fun thrown in for a measure...
"Now get back to work! Read Read Read. Summarise Summarise Summarise...Type Type Type!" :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

limerick

07-14-2009, 02:53 PM

Yeah,thanks,I had a nice rest....I must say I'm still enjoying these threads....I'm reading the issues and spotting things I missed before even though I've read these particular X-books a few times...so raring to go....X-men next,tomorrow!:biggrin:

limerick

07-14-2009, 04:30 PM

Thoughts on Excalibur # 7:

--Probably not my favourite issue of the run so far...Don't get me wrong,it's fine but compared to the first 6 issues it's a little different in tone with a lot less character work,normally Excalibur's strong point.It does all seem to finish very quickly as if Claremont was struggling for space to tell the tale he wanted....the Rachel conclusion,in particular seemed rushed...how did Kurt find her?Also,how did Kitty find Brian and Meggan at the Goblin Queen's 'castle'?It just has the ring of being a little rushed at the end.....Slightly rushed work from Davis too,at the end...see the last panel on page 29 with the Phoenix-effect...I think if Davis had enough time this could have been an awesome page-filler but instead it's a throwaway frame with a very rushed rendition on the buildings in N.Y.....Rachel looks a bit off on the next page as well....From anyone else this would be more than sufficient but it seems a little below Davis's high standards

--What's up with Brian...he ran out of steam in the dancing scenario...was this related to The Goblin Queen's later lapse(possibly related to other events in INFERNO?) or is this a problem of his own?

--As kk1 and Imraith discussed ,it's nice to compare Davis's style with the other artists working on INFERNO....he seems a little out of the centre of things...Keeping th X-men's presence secret from Excalibur does limit where these characters can go in N.Y.

--Now X-Factor are aware of the X-men's survival surely the time has come to inform their former team-mates,Kitty and Nightcrawler...to not do would seem strange??

--Great work on Kitty here from Claremont and Davis...she looks and acts great..I particularly like her on the double-sized cover....How old is Kitty here?15,16??

--Creaky,like you I loved the Gargoyle...Claremont really did bring the character to life....he only features in 3-4 pages but is almost instantly a soulmate for Kurt...they're made of the same stuff.

--Another mention of a Sci-fi store....Claremont has been continually referencing various Sci-fi shops over the couple of years before this...I don't mind passive mentions or appearances of places but I don't think it's such a good idea to incorporate them into the story....is that called the fourth wall or something???

--Kitty seems to have inherited the armour which belonged to Illyana...as she mentions it had appeared before during Secret Wars but now Illyana has been reverted to childhood will it be a permanant possession of hers....waiting to see(can't remember exactly how this storyline panned out!

--Oh,and please Brian,no more bondage gear--especially the kinky G-string---it's just not you!

kk1

07-14-2009, 04:45 PM

That's what you get from a forced crossover, shallow stories.

Great work on Kitty here from Claremont and Davis...she looks and acts great..I particularly like her on the double-sized cover....How old is Kitty here?15,16??

14 she has her 15th birthday in the 20's of excalibur.

limerick

07-14-2009, 04:51 PM

That's what you get from a forced crossover, shallow stories.

14 she has her 15th birthday in the 20's of excalibur.
You're right,the crossover unsettled Excalibur...I think it came too early in the run...thank's for the age confimation...you know your stuff!

limerick

07-14-2009, 04:53 PM

One more thing.....don't the X-men/X-factor see the Phoenix-effect??...it'd be hard to miss it!

DungeonmasterJim

07-14-2009, 08:23 PM

kk1

07-14-2009, 08:50 PM

--Kitty seems to have inherited the armour which belonged to Illyana...as she mentions it had appeared before during Secret Wars but now Illyana has been reverted to childhood will it be a permanant possession of hers....waiting to see(can't remember exactly how this storyline panned out!

It never did, I was hoping to see this in Forever but instead we get her with Wolverine's claw.

limerick

07-15-2009, 12:18 PM

One thing I think Claremont does very well is leave things open to interpretations by his readers. Probably my favorite scene was left out of this arc entirely - Rachel being stripped out of her costume! :evilsmile: Since it was never shown how exactly the dummies switched with humans. :smile:

I remembering being a bit put off by Inferno since I was never a big fan of company wide cross-overs. But the team of Claremont and Davis made me enjoy the 2 story arc quite a bit. Nightcrawler being ingested by a sanitation truck and attacked by scared humans still cracks me up to this day.

I think Claremont has gone to signings at the Forbidden Planet store in this story. I think it was a nod and a wink to the store and its customers.

DM Jim
It's interesting that on the cover she's wearing the Phoenix costume under the wedding dress.....probably so we can recognise her as she looks a bit weird with the glazed eyes look....it's already a strange enough cover so it's important for Marvel to make sure at least one of the Excalibur team is clerrly visible on the cover

I also found the sanitation truck amusing...he's still just doing his job but in an Inferno twisted way.

limerick

07-15-2009, 12:18 PM

It never did, I was hoping to see this in Forever but instead we get her with Wolverine's claw.
Oh,this was one of Claremont's loose ends,then...sheesh!

kk1

07-15-2009, 01:34 PM

Oh,this was one of Claremont's loose ends,then...sheesh!

I think somebody addressed it after he left but I'd have liked to have seen his take since he started it.

limerick

07-19-2009, 04:49 PM

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.8.GIF

Excalibur # 8...................May 1989

"New York Adventure"

Claremont/Lim

The Plaza Hotel:Manhattan:Brian wakes to find Meggan missing......Rushing into the rest of the penthouse he finds Phoenix,Shadowcat and Nightcrawler have all left notes explaining where they are....There's no note from Meggan but Brian remembers she is not quite literate....He decides to look for her but his uniform has been destroyed so he takes off from the roof of the hotel wearing hotel-issue gym togs...Below him the public sees him taking off(including a visiting Clark Kent and Lois Lane!).

The Beach,Coney Island:Meggan cries to herself,distraught over the way she betrayed her team-mates(especially Brian)under the guise of The Goblin Queen....Some passing girls notice she is upset and come to help her...She transfers herself,chameleon-like, to match one of them....they offer to help her and take her from the beach..

Xavier's School For Gifted Mutants,Westchester:Kitty heads back to the mansion to collect some things but finds it in ruins following Inferno....She meets the New Mutants who happen to arrive there at the same time.....They are initially glad to see each other but Kitty soon starts having a go at them for not listening to Magneto and as a result causing Doug Ramsey to die....Hearing Doug's name causes Rahne to become upset and she starts to cry.....At this stage the de-aged Illyana appears and shouts at Kitty to leave her friend alone(in Russain)....Kitty is shocked to see her former room-mate back to a young child....Dani conjures up life-like versions of Doug and teenage Illyana but they are just illusions and although convincing,Kitty tells Dani to make them disappear.....They explain that Illyana sacrificed herself by choice....Kitty tells them the underground base is fine and any damage is being repaired by self-repair systems....But the school is totalled so the NM are staying with X-factor...They invite her to join them but she refuses and embraces them saying her goodbyes....

Manhattan:Brian flies over N.Y. fruitlessly looking for Meggan......He feels tired and is worried that INFERNO is still affecting him.....He hears gunshots below and lands to intercept a robbery getaway car.....He stops the car but is,surprisingly,thrown to one side by the impact.....Unfortunately,his clothes are totaled by the impact.....He has his wallet with him and purchases new gym clothes....But when he re-emerges he finds he can't fly at all(also unknown to him his wallet is pick-pocketed).....A cop who saw him dealing with the robbery earlier hails him a cab.

Chinatown:Meggan is enjoying herself with her new friends but is worried she is doing what they want rather than what she wants.....They are heading for the cinema but she hesitates entering after her experience during INFERNO......She becomes seperated from them and suddenly changes appearance again....a guy comes up to her and chats her up....they end up dancing in the street together at a street fair.

The Lockheed Aerospace Research Facility,California:Nightcrawler retrieves the X-men's Blackbird which has been in storage at the facility.....With them being 'dead' he figures Excalibur need it more than he does!

Manhattan:Brian spends the day driving around in the cab looking for Meggan but still with no success.....When he asks a female cop if she can help him,he mis-phrases his question and interpreting him as soliciting,she starts to arrest him.....Trying to prove he's a superhero he tries to lift the cab in front of a growing crowd.....But his strength still fails him and the crowd disperses laughing at him....He gives it one final go and withy supreme effort just manages to lift it above his head....when a dog comes along and pisses on his leg!....It's not his day!

Chinatown:When they finish dancing Meggan's new 'friend' takes her somewhere quieter and tries it on....At first she responds kissing him back, allowing herself to do what he wants her to do.....But she suddenly finds new strength in herself and asserts herself telling him,"NO!".....He won't stop so she becomes angry and assumes her 'Goblin Queen' appearance....He runs away,scared.....She wonders if protecting herself by manifesting the foulest part of herself is worth the price of standing up for herself..

X-Factor's Ship Headquarters:Jean Grey bonds with Madelyne and Scott's baby,Nathan.Outside the nursery window Rachel watches lovingly as her 'mother' and 'brother' get on well....She has a Psi-link with Nathan and can hear his thoughts.....When Jean turns to look out the window she thinks she feels a presence but Rachel hides under cloud cover....She leaves telling Nathan to call(telepathically) if he needs help....

Manhattan:Meggan ends up playing a basketball game in Greenwich Village....and winning.....Brian finally catches up with her there and they start the cab journey back to the hotel....He tells her how he's been looking for her all day,worried sick about her but she replies that she's a superpowered grown woman ,well able to look after herself.....He tells her about his trouble wtih his powers and that he's worried she has been affected by INFERNO as well....When they get to the hotel Brian finally realises he's had his wallet stolen and he's a bit mifed when Meggan picks up the tab....

FIN

limerick

07-19-2009, 05:16 PM

While reading this issue I noticed that Kitty meets the New Mutants.....and I suddenly realised they know that Colossus is alive....they met him at the end of New Mutants # 73!....So how come they didn't ask him why he's alive and are the rest of the X-men alive?And why in God's name wouldn't they tell Kitty that her former team-mate and boyfriend is not dead as she thought...if Kitty knew the X-men were alive at this stage she'd be out of Excalibur so fast you wouldn't see her feet for the blur....Any explanations for this oversight??

kk1

07-20-2009, 10:38 AM

The less said about this issue the better. Good catch on Colossus, never thought about that.

limerick

07-20-2009, 04:19 PM

Thoughts on Excalibur # 8:

--If this is what life is like without Alan Davis ,I don't want to live in this world!Boy,can an artist affect a comic that much or is Claremont just having a bad day because this is piss poor.Excalibur in New York should be awesome----you guessed it,without Davis it's a damp squid.:frown:

--A couple of little cameos thrown in with Clark Kent and Lois Lane(who looks just like adult Kitty)appearing on page 3 and a tiny Spidey/Doc Oc. cameo on page 20...strange seeing D.C. cameos in Marvel!

--What's up with Brian's powers.....is it a side effect of Inferno?.....He's really struggling in this issue and he needs to get some answers fast

--Meggan confronts her 'run-with-the-crowd' mentality and makes some progress but not without kissing another guy first...Brian would not be impressed!She does show slight double standards here...she was jealous of Courtney Ross before but she shows no remorse over smooching that sleazeball.But I do think the story dwelled a little too much on Meggan and I would have preferred more pages on Kitty/New Mutants reunion.

--Speaking of which there's always been bad blood between Kitty and the NM and that doesn't change here.She still blames them to some extent for Doug's death...As I said before it's beyond believe they don't tell her about Colossus's reappearance....She is with Excalibur because of The X-men's deaths....It would be interesting to find out her next move if she discovered they were still alive...I don't see why The X-men don't contact Excalibur now that they've dealt with the Marauders....X-factor already knows they're alive and The NM do too (even though the 'choose' not to acknowledge it---or at least the writer does!)

--I thought Dani creating the illusions of Doug and teenage Illyana was just wrong---totally out of character.

--Very little Nightcrawlerthis issue....But doesn't he look just like Cockrum's nightcrawler?!(or is it just me?)

--The Rachel sequence also has a few problems.....the Ship is always based just above the sea...It's relocated here to the clouds just so Phoenix can hide in them...it just doesn't seem right.Also Ship would have registered Phoenix on the sensors but that's overlooked for some reason?

--Things can only get better for Brian from here!!What a day!

--Davis,we need you and you must promise never,ever,ever to go away again!

Filthy Mutie

07-20-2009, 04:22 PM

Man, when Meggan went missing, I was pretty worried. I sure hope that never happens again.

Loki

07-20-2009, 05:23 PM

Thoughts on Excalibur # 8:--A couple of little cameos thrown in with Clark Kent and Lois Lane(who looks just like adult Kitty)appearing on page 3 and a tiny Spidey/Doc Oc. cameo on page 20...strange seeing D.C. cameos in Marvel!
Lois and Clark have made a lot of cameos in Marvel over the years.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/loisdc.htm
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/kentclark.htm

--What's up with Brian's powers.....is it a side effect of Inferno?.....He's really struggling in this issue and he needs to get some answers fast
All will be explained in a few issues' time.

--Meggan confronts her 'run-with-the-crowd' mentality and makes some progress but not without kissing another guy first...Brian would not be impressed!She does show slight double standards here...she was jealous of Courtney Ross before but she shows no remorse over smooching that sleazeball.
It's quite funny that so many people pick on Brian for what happened with Courtney, and yet happily excuse Meggan's shenanigans here, and near miss with Kurt a few issues ago. The truth is, neither one is a saint, but equally, since both are influenced by outside forces they have little chance of resisting during their periods of straying (Brian by "Courtney's" pheromones, Meggan by her out-of-control empathy), neither one's that much of a sinner either.

Category1Games

07-21-2009, 03:13 PM

Askani's Flame

07-21-2009, 03:32 PM

Does it bother anyone else that Phoenix refers to Jean Grey as her Mom when it was in fact the Phoenix itself that was the Mom of Rachel. Marvel has said that it was the Phoenix cloan/entity that was going around after issue #101, meaning the person that got prego with Rachel was in fact the Phoenix and so when they talk about Rachel having her Mom's power she should have just the Phoenix power and not the TK ability except if you look at as the Phoenix having the exact same DNA build as Jean.

So the end result is that Jean is not in fact Rachel's Mom and the only connection she has to Nate/Cable is through their father Scott Summers.

Just thought I would bring this up since I hardly ever see it mentioned.

It's not mentioned because not all of that is correct.

Rachel's from an alternate timeline where Jean Grey was Phoenix and survived the DPS. Being born from that Jean in her reality, she inherited Jean's TP and TK, her own chronoskimming abilities, and Jean's ability to tap into the PF.

You're right that this Jean Grey is not Rachel's mother, but until Marvel officially declares that Rachel is the spawn of the Force itself, she is a Grey.

Category1Games

07-21-2009, 05:19 PM

It's not mentioned because not all of that is correct.

Rachel's from an alternate timeline where Jean Grey was Phoenix and survived the DPS. Being born from that Jean in her reality, she inherited Jean's TP and TK, her own chronoskimming abilities, and Jean's ability to tap into the PF.

You're right that this Jean Grey is not Rachel's mother, but until Marvel officially declares that Rachel is the spawn of the Force itself, she is a Grey.

No but the timeline she comes from is different because Phoenix is not killed on the Moon and the 'Days of Future Past' happens quickly with the rise of the Sentinels.

So Rachel's Jean Grey was replaced in Space just like Earth 616's is and the real Jean Grey is at the bottom of the lake never to be awakened.

Because we know that Rachel was conceived on the Butte right before the X-Men were taken off into space (meaning that the Phoenix/Jean was technically pregnant in the 616 Universe when she committed suicide.) it means that the Jean in Rachel's time was in fact Phoenix.

LiefeldFanatiX

07-21-2009, 07:32 PM

limerick

07-22-2009, 12:55 PM

Those early of Excalibur were sure great. I did not start buying the title until Davis' second stint but I bought all the back issues. I guess the premise of Exiles is similar to the original Excaibur premise.
I think Excalibur may have been the first book to bring in the 616 concept....don't want to say too much without spoilers....Have you been banned already...that was quick!

limerick

07-22-2009, 12:55 PM

I think Excalibur may have been the first book to bring in the 616 concept....don't want to say too much without spoilers....Have you been banned already...that was quick!
F**k,I just realised I've been posting for a year...I feel old!

limerick

07-22-2009, 04:24 PM

Lois and Clark have made a lot of cameos in Marvel over the years.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/loisdc.htm
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/kentclark.htm

All will be explained in a few issues' time.

It's quite funny that so many people pick on Brian for what happened with Courtney, and yet happily excuse Meggan's shenanigans here, and near miss with Kurt a few issues ago. The truth is, neither one is a saint, but equally, since both are influenced by outside forces they have little chance of resisting during their periods of straying (Brian by "Courtney's" pheromones, Meggan by her out-of-control empathy), neither one's that much of a sinner either.
Thanks for that Lois/Clark cameo link,Loki.Very informative and pretty darn cool.

limerick

07-26-2009, 03:43 PM

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.9.GIF

Excalibur # 9...................June 1989

Alan Davis returns for issue #9...Back to Britain for Excalibur.....Summary tomorrow!!

The Sword Is Drawn

07-27-2009, 03:42 AM

And this is a good issue.

Loki

07-27-2009, 05:19 AM

No but the timeline she comes from is different because Phoenix is not killed on the Moon and the 'Days of Future Past' happens quickly with the rise of the Sentinels.

So Rachel's Jean Grey was replaced in Space just like Earth 616's is and the real Jean Grey is at the bottom of the lake never to be awakened.

Because we know that Rachel was conceived on the Butte right before the X-Men were taken off into space (meaning that the Phoenix/Jean was technically pregnant in the 616 Universe when she committed suicide.) it means that the Jean in Rachel's time was in fact Phoenix.

The timeline is different even further back. The assassination / saving of Senator Kelly wasn't the divergence point between 811 Days of Future Past (there's multiple versions of DoFP so the numerical designator is needed here) and 616. One of the earlier examples of divergence was that the Phoenix Force didn't replace Jean, but merged with her, which invalidates your second and third paragraphs. Jean is Rachel's mother.

limerick

07-27-2009, 12:47 PM

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.9.GIF

Excalibur # 9...................June 1989

"The Two-Edged Sword!"

Claremont/Davis/Neary

Excalibur's Lighthouse Base,West Coast of England:Lockheed stands guard over the slightly damaged lighthouse,waiting patiently for the rest of Excalibur to return.....His face lights up when he sees Kitty's arms starting to phae towards him through the floor......Before he has time to realise exactly what's happening she grabs him by the throat and throttles him.....He falls to the ground,unconcious or worse!.....'Kitty' is in fact Kitty from an alternate universe and she is joined by the rest of the alternate Excalibur(they have no alternate Phoenix)....Hauptmann Englande congratulatesher on getting the job done and reminds them that their priority is the safe return of The Reichsminister of Genetics,Lady Moira McTaggert.

The Research Complex,Underground Section of Xavier's School For Gifted Youngsters,Westchester:Kitty(the real one!) is putting Captain Britain through a series of strength tests to discover how much his recent problems have affected his strength.....She finds his power is well below his normal levels when she gets him to try and lift modified barbells.......She then continues testing him,this time the speed of his reactions.....Again,they are affected and his ability to fly is practically non-existent.....The final test she sets is for him to run a gauntlet of paint-sprayers without being hit.....

In the observation booth Nightcrawler joins Kitty and Meggan, who is worriedly watching Brian's run-out in the area below them....Kitty points out to Kurt that Meggan has also been affected and is acting like a chameleon,assuming the form of anyone near her....To demonstrate, she walks near Meggan and Meggan instantly assumes her facial features.....Kurt tries the same thing and again she assumes Kurt's blue furry appearance ....As they discuss the problem Rachel arrives to see what's happening.......As she walks near Meggan,again Meggan assumes her form but the effect is traumatic for both of them as they becomes lost in the telepatic shock they both get from mirroring each other......Rachel pushes Meggan away to break the connection.....She explains none of her psychic defenses worked because Meggan actually felt like part of herself.....At that moment a paint-covered Brian angrily enters the room,telling Kitty he won't do any more tests until he gets some answers!

Kitty explains that their powers are an extention of their natural being and that as that deteriorates so do their abilities.....Although she doesn't know how to cure it herself she does advise that they consult either Reed Richards or Moira McTaggert.....Before they decide on their next step,Kurt answers the phone.....It's Inspector Dai Thomas and he needs their help....The board the Blackbird jet and leave immediately for London,England.

The Hellfire Club,London Branch:Nigel Frobisher has blagged guest passes for him and two of his friends to the Club for the super-rich and powerful.....They have aspirations to join themselves one day but Nigel tells the others that Courtney Ross is blocking his path to the top....Unknown to him ,"Courtney"(Actually Sat-ur-nyne posing as her)is right behind him and on seeing her he spills a drink over himself in shock.....She apologises and offers to make it up to him.....She brings him to a card table where she offers him a stake of £1 from him versus a wager from her that he gets to nominate......One-card draw will decide the winner....Showing his true class,he nominates a weekend with her but loses the draw.....He looks for another go so they continue to draw cards.....Each draw increases his winnings by a factor of ten and before long he is up £100,000 with a string of 5 wins....'Courtney' offers her job as a stake for the next bet versus £1,000,000 from Nigel....He feels he will lose face if he walks away and so continues with the game although he can't afford it.....Things look good for him when he pulls a king but,of course,when it counts she comes up trumps drawing an ace.....He meekishly tells her he hasn't the money but ,walking away from him,she tells him he can pay and....he will.

The Tower of London:A young American family are taking a guided tour of the tower when they pass the entrance to the W.H.O.(weird happenings organization).....Their guide tells them it's off-limits to visitors so they continue on only to suddenly disappear in a flash of light.....Above them the metallic transporter 'head' seen in previous issues(Widget)is visible ,obviously responsible for the strange event below him.

In his office Alistaire Stuart waits with Dai Thomas for his sister to finish interrogating the Dopplegangers of Moira Mctaggert andCallisto that turned up in a London train station recently....Thomas has run D.N.A and fingerprint matches and they are a perfect match for the originals.....Alistaire tells him it must prove conclusively the existence of alternate dimensions.....Before Dai can respond a reptilen version of the family and tour guide seen earlier walk through the door....They have been transported into this dimension in a swap with the others who disappeared.

At the Tower Gate,Hauptmann Englande pretends to be Brian Braddock to gain entry to W.H.O......As he does this the preoccupied guards fail to notice the reat of the alternate Excalibur sneaking into the tower....

In the dungeon,Brigadier Stuart interviews alternate Moira and Callisto....Suddenly,the ghost 'Kitty' bursts into the room and takes out the guard....Callisto overpowers Brigadier Stuart before she can use her gun...

Hauptmann Englande enters Alistaire's office to be confronted by the bizarre sight of the inter-dimensional reptilean family(and tour guide!)....He smashes up the office and grabs Dai,ready to smash his face in.....But Kitty phases through the wall and phases Dai through the punch....Rachel arrives seconds later and detains the Hauptmann with her telekinetic powers.....He refuses to talk but she reads his mind .

Outside Kurt lands the Blackbird in the grounds of the Tower of London.....He tells Brian and Meggan to hold back while he joins the others.....Meggan objects but Brian says it's for the best(although he is feeling better since they crossed the Atlantic).

Inside Kitty phases into a corridor but before she can react she is taken out by her alternate self similar to how Lockheed was.....Phoenix is distracted telepathically by Kitty's sudden lapse out of conciousness.....Hauptmann Englande takes his chance and punches her,sending her flying through the building walls with the power of his punch.....the time for subtle subterfuge over ,he discards his civilian clothes to reveal a Nazi version of Captain's Britain's costume underneath....Nightcrawler arrives to confront him but although evading the Hauptmann,he is soon knocked out when his Doppleganger multi-teleports him......The alternate Excalibur regroup and link up with their Moira and Callisto.....Alternate Meggan blasts a hole in the tower wall for them to escape.....But(much to their amusement)they face an opponent....Captain Britain...dressed in a tight-fitting replica of his original costume borrowed from the Tower museum....

FIN

limerick

07-27-2009, 04:50 PM

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/262871-160315-meggan_large.jpg

Earth-597 Meggan is as hot as the 616 version.....at least that alternate universe has one positive thing about it!

The Sword Is Drawn

07-28-2009, 09:20 AM

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/262871-160315-meggan_large.jpg

Earth-597 Meggan is as hot as the 616 version.....at least that alternate universe has one positive thing about it!

Although the fact that she IS a Nazi should be a bit of a put off...

One point that might be worth noting. A key plot point in this story hangs on that old first generation Captain Britain costume, which is on display.

This always bugged me a little.

Because back when Brian was wearing that costume, and carrying the staff/sceptre, he was also transforming into that costume by touching the Amulet of Right. He wasn't like Spider-man. He didn't have spares or have to repair his tights, this was a magical transformation and as far we were really made aware I'm pretty sure there was only that one costume.

That costume was transformed in the first Dave Thorpe and Alan Davis Captain Britain story, as Brian and Jackdaw departed from their adventures with the Black Knight. Merlyn reconfigured the costume, merging the Amulet and Sceptre in with Brian's costume. The old costume morphed into the newer costume with the mask, which we know and love.

So exactly how this costume came to be on display? Who knows...

Maybe it was magic? :wink:

Loki

07-28-2009, 10:04 AM

The Tower of London:A young American family are taking a guided tour of the tower when they pass the entrance to the W.H.O.(weird happenings organization).....Their guide tells them it's off-limits to visitors so they continue on only to suddenly disappear in a flash of light.....Above them the metallic transporter 'head' seen in previous issues(Widget)is visible ,obviously responsible for the strange event below him.

One thing about that scene always irked me. Actually, it's a general irk which crops up almost every time the Tower of London gets depicted. And that's the depiction of the Beefeater, or, to give the proper title, the Yeoman Warder. Almost without fail, when you see them depicted in fiction, they are shown as silly-looking, bumbling and incompetant old men. That's far from accurate. The only bit close to right is that they do wear a distinctive uniform, dating back centuries, which to modern eyes does look a bit funny, but they wear that old-style uniform more for the tourists than for any other reason. What people forget is that they are all retired from the army, marines or air force after a minimum 22 years unblemished service; though day to day they act as tour guides, they are actually there to protect the crown jewels (and guard prisoners, not that there are any these days). That job isn't given to some idiot in his dotage who belongs in a retirement home; they are middle aged, not old, and are hardened combat veterans, people you would not want to mess with in a fight.

limerick

07-28-2009, 03:47 PM

Although the fact that she IS a Nazi should be a bit of a put off...

One point that might be worth noting. A key plot point in this story hangs on that old first generation Captain Britain costume, which is on display.

This always bugged me a little.

Because back when Brian was wearing that costume, and carrying the staff/sceptre, he was also transforming into that costume by touching the Amulet of Right. He wasn't like Spider-man. He didn't have spares or have to repair his tights, this was a magical transformation and as far we were really made aware I'm pretty sure there was only that one costume.

That costume was transformed in the first Dave Thorpe and Alan Davis Captain Britain story, as Brian and Jackdaw departed from their adventures with the Black Knight. Merlyn reconfigured the costume, merging the Amulet and Sceptre in with Brian's costume. The old costume morphed into the newer costume with the mask, which we know and love.

So exactly how this costume came to be on display? Who knows...

Maybe it was magic? :wink:
The guide does say that the Hall contains:"replicas o' the superpowered men and women'......He then says:"That un's the original costume of Captain Britain"

It was my understanding that the costume is a replica of his original(first) costume-----not a Captain Britain original,if you know what I mean...Does that make sense?!

As regards being a Nazi(alternate Meggan)---ALWAYS offputting!

limerick

07-28-2009, 03:52 PM

One thing about that scene always irked me. Actually, it's a general irk which crops up almost every time the Tower of London gets depicted. And that's the depiction of the Beefeater, or, to give the proper title, the Yeoman Warder. Almost without fail, when you see them depicted in fiction, they are shown as silly-looking, bumbling and incompetant old men. That's far from accurate. The only bit close to right is that they do wear a distinctive uniform, dating back centuries, which to modern eyes does look a bit funny, but they wear that old-style uniform more for the tourists than for any other reason. What people forget is that they are all retired from the army, marines or air force after a minimum 22 years unblemished service; though day to day they act as tour guides, they are actually there to protect the crown jewels (and guard prisoners, not that there are any these days). That job isn't given to some idiot in his dotage who belongs in a retirement home; they are middle aged, not old, and are hardened combat veterans, people you would not want to mess with in a fight.
I must say I didn't use the phrase 'Beefeater' as I was unsure if that was 100% accurate....my English army history is poor,to say the least!

limerick

07-28-2009, 04:19 PM

Thought on Excalibur # 9:

--My first thought was how the Alternate Excalibur got here(616),as Widget had brought alternate Moira and Callisto.....perhaps that will be explained next issue.

--For me this is Davis' strongest issue so far.....by having a one issue gap he's been able to flesh out the art with his amazing little touches that complete this book....Brian's X-costume.....Alternate Excalibur's detailed costumes(especially Nightcrawler's!)....Courtney's/Sat-ur-nyne's bling!.....Davis is the master!

--We're still waiting for a strong Phoenix story---she barely features here....She is so powerful that she may fall into the same trap as Magneto encountered in the X-men.....of being so powerful that telling stories where villains defeat them becomes unrealistic and as a result they end up in a more minor role....I will be watching her progress carefully!

--Nigel Frobisher has become quite a regular---I wonder what makes Claremont keep bringing him back because he is basically an utter a**hole.

--Did Sat-ur-nyne rig that card game?Does she have powers to do that?I'm quite unfamiliar with her Captain Britain appearances...

--Hey,the 80's are coming back into fashion....The daughter in the tourist family looks like a brunette Lady Gaga!(page 17)

--Interesting that the reptile family on page 18 are red in skin colour but green on the cover.....Cover/Story differences like that are common but I can never understand them...what's the point of making them different?(I would have thought green would have been a better colour for reptiles)

--The Alternate Kitty is shocking!Why does she stay with the other Excalibur?Do they have some hold over her?Her 'Star of David' tatoo and the Nazi markings of the rest of alternate Excalibur seemed acceptable at the time but with the embracing of political correctness by society ,I do not think they would feature such strong Nazi overtones if the story was written today,even though the story is definitely anti-Nazi.

--Does Alternate Kitty act in a vampiric way---in the third last panel of page 20 she seems to lunge for the guard's throat and two panels on from there she is wiping her mouth as if wiping blood awawy(although no blood is visible)

--Ilove the last panel where Brian faces them in the slightly too tight costume....it really was a cool costume(original one)I like the mask in particular....Brian seems so heroic here....his powers are waning(although recovering since he returned to the U.K.:wink: )but he still stands firm against the Nazi scum...what a guy!EDIT---The old costume shows how he's filled out over the last few years(months in Marvel time!)

The Sword Is Drawn

07-29-2009, 04:54 AM

Thought on Excalibur # 9:

--My first thought was how the Alternate Excalibur got here(616),as Widget had brought alternate Moira and Callisto.....perhaps that will be explained next issue.

Well, Moira and Callisto did arrive on a train bearing Swastikas, did they not...?

--For me this is Davis' strongest issue so far.....by having a one issue gap he's been able to flesh out the art with his amazing little touches that complete this book....Brian's X-costume.....Alternate Excalibur's detailed costumes(especially Nightcrawler's!)....Courtney's/Sat-ur-nyne's bling!.....Davis is the master!

I particularly appreciate the amount of thought Davis applied in Lightning Force's costumes, right down to the way he incorporates the Imperial German Eagle and Swastika into Hauptman Englade's Captain Britain costume. A huge amount of thought went into these.

--We're still waiting for a strong Phoenix story---she barely features here....She is so powerful that she may fall into the same trap as Magneto encountered in the X-men.....of being so powerful that telling stories where villains defeat them becomes unrealistic and as a result they end up in a more minor role....I will be watching her progress carefully!

We'll get there. Her time will come. The seeds for that are being sewn in this very story. Notice that Lightning Force has analogues for Brian, Meggan, Kurt and Kitty.

Somebody's been left out...

--Nigel Frobisher has become quite a regular---I wonder what makes Claremont keep bringing him back because he is basically an utter a**hole.

Ever thought that might BE the reason he keeps bringing him back? :biggrin:

--Did Sat-ur-nyne rig that card game?Does she have powers to do that?I'm quite unfamiliar with her Captain Britain appearances...

Sat-yr-9's power is psychic suggestion. While, i suppose, it could have been used to persuade Nigel to make some bad decisions while playing in this case I think it was probably just a case of her playing a better game of cards. She could really rig it, exactly.

--Hey,the 80's are coming back into fashion....The daughter in the tourist family looks like a brunette Lady Gaga!(page 17)

Ha ha. Although I defy anything in this series to be more 80s than Brian's hair. It cannot be topped. :wink:

--Interesting that the reptile family on page 18 are red in skin colour but green on the cover.....Cover/Story differences like that are common but I can never understand them...what's the point of making them different?(I would have thought green would have been a better colour for reptiles)

It may have just been honest to god human error. It happens.

--The Alternate Kitty is shocking!Why does she stay with the other Excalibur?Do they have some hold over her?Her 'Star of David' tatoo and the Nazi markings of the rest of alternate Excalibur seemed acceptable at the time but with the embracing of political correctness by society ,I do not think they would feature such strong Nazi overtones if the story was written today,even though the story is definitely anti-Nazi.

But that's the point, Limerick. It should be shocking. This is a Nazi ruled Britain. She's a Jew. In all likelihood, were it not for her powers, she would be living in a concentration camp. But I guess in this universe, horrible though it sounds, Nazi Britain doesn't have a problem using a Jewish woman if she DOES have powers. But they won't treat her well when they do. She is still a Jew, and in the Nazi psyche that makes her vilified in the most hateful way. From Kitty's point of view she probably stays with them because the alternative is death.

--Does Alternate Kitty act in a vampiric way---in the third last panel of page 20 she seems to lunge for the guard's throat and two panels on from there she is wiping her mouth as if wiping blood awawy(although no blood is visible)

Actually, I'm not sure. I'll have to go back and look at that.

--Ilove the last panel where Brian faces them in the slightly too tight costume....it really was a cool costume(original one)I like the mask in particular....Brian seems so heroic here....his powers are waning(although recovering since he returned to the U.K.:wink: )but he still stands firm against the Nazi scum...what a guy!EDIT---The old costume shows how he's filled out over the last few years(months in Marvel time!)

Yeah. When Merlyn rejigged his costume he also seemed to alter his form a little, too. Brian is much bulkier than he was back when he used the original costume.

Don't even get me started on the power fade though. I was incredibly glad when it was later retconned into something else.

DungeonmasterJim

07-29-2009, 07:49 AM

limerick

07-29-2009, 12:21 PM

One of the main things I really loved about the old Excaliburs is that they sort of had a dysfunctional family feel to them. When the chips are down the team really gets together but otherwise they are often at odds with one another and it never felt forced to me. I don't know why but Claremont just doesn't seem to resonate like that in his writings these days. Sometimes he gets close but it's just not the same. I suppose it could be I've changed as a reader but Claremont/Davis comics are regularly my all-time favorite comics.

DM Jim
No,DungeonJim,you haven't changed,Claremont has!I don't want to rant about it but his writing nowadays is unrecognisable....I find it strange....Stephen King 35 years ago reads just like Stephen King today but when I read recent Claremont Exiles,there was no way that someone could guess it was the same wrirt unless told....shame....

limerick

07-29-2009, 12:21 PM

One of the main things I really loved about the old Excaliburs is that they sort of had a dysfunctional family feel to them. When the chips are down the team really gets together but otherwise they are often at odds with one another and it never felt forced to me. I don't know why but Claremont just doesn't seem to resonate like that in his writings these days. Sometimes he gets close but it's just not the same. I suppose it could be I've changed as a reader but Claremont/Davis comics are regularly my all-time favorite comics.

DM Jim
No,DungeonMasterJim,you haven't changed,Claremont has!I don't want to rant about it but his writing nowadays is unrecognisable....I find it strange....Stephen King 35 years ago reads just like Stephen King today but when I read recent Claremont Exiles,there was no way that someone could guess it was the same writer unless told....shame....

Nevets F

07-29-2009, 12:31 PM

No,DungeonMasterJim,you haven't changed,Claremont has!I don't want to rant about it but his writing nowadays is unrecognisable....I find it strange....Stephen King 35 years ago reads just like Stephen King today but when I read recent Claremont Exiles,there was no way that someone could guess it was the same wrirt unless told....shame....

You are so right Limerick, it's quite sad really.

limerick

07-29-2009, 12:34 PM

Hi,Steven,I don't want to harp about it too much as I think Claremont's a good guy but he's just not where he used to be......I see Goblyn's Avatar finally got the shove!See you on Alpha Friday!:biggrin:

The Sword Is Drawn

07-29-2009, 02:39 PM

limerick

07-29-2009, 03:53 PM

The Alpha Flight 'From the Beginning' Thread.....I usually summarise an issue a week and almost always on a Friday....Hence Alpha Friday!....I suppose I could call Monday.......Excalibur Monday!!:biggrin:

The Sword Is Drawn

07-30-2009, 02:54 AM

limerick

08-03-2009, 07:01 AM

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.10.GIF

Excalibur # 10...................July 1989

"Widget"

Claremont/Marshall Rogers

The Tower of London,England:Captain Britain,wearing a copy of his old costume, and his alternate reality Nazi doppleganger,Hauptmann Englande, fight each other around the tower of London watched by the rest of the alternate reality Excalibur.....Brian is weakened after his power fluctuations while in the U.S. recently and is gradually being overcome by his opponent..

In the grounds of the Tower,the Nazi versions of Callisto and Moira Mctaggert with their prisoner,Brigadier Stuart,are attempting to escape using the Excalibur Blackbird jet....But before they can board the plane they are fired upon by W.H.O. armed soldiers who fire harassing fire to stop them escaping with their commander.....In the confusion Brigadier Stuart tries to escape but Callisto recaptures her.....Moira shouts at Dai Thomas(from Scotland Yard) to call off the soldiers or they will harm Stuart....Before Dai can agree with the soldiers what to do they are distracted by the alternate reality Lizard-type family of tourist walking into their area of fire....They are not fully aware of the danger they have stumbled into.

Meanwhile,Hauptmann Englande catches Captain Britain with a fierce punch and sends him flying into a garbage barge on the Thames.....The barge is totalled and it seems CB is beaten.....But he rises from the water, surprising himself that he was able to withstand the beating he was taking.....He lands a blow of his own on theNazi,sending him firing through part of the Tower....Part of the rubble falls towards the Lizard boy in the forecourt of the Tower....CB manages to grab him in time to save him from injury(preventing a repeat of a previous incident where a child,Mickey Scott,was killed during an earlier battle)......Dropping the kid off,CB has just noticed his strange appearance when the ghost-like alternate Shadowcat phases through his body......The effect is to instantly knock him for six(she says her power disrupts the electricity of Life)and he falls to the ground out of it.....Alternate Nightcrawler grabs him and teleports him four times in succession knowing this will do him in......Hauptmann Englande then arrives and is about to deliver the coup de grace when Brian shocks them all(and himself!),recovering and again punching the Nazi Hauptmann.....Alternate Nightcrawler is surprised at the recovery and is even more surprised when alternate Meggan punches him...hard!.....She is actually 616 Meggan impostering her doppleganger to keep an eye on the alternate Excalibur.....Meggan then puts Moira and Callisto out of the fight,freeing Brigadier Stuart....The fight is over when Rachel grabs the alternate Kitty telekinetically----alternate Excalibur are done!....Rachel notices there is no Doppleganger for her.

Inside the Tower,Kitty recovers conciousness to find herself gazing into the eyes of a concerned Alistair Stuart....she is instantly attracted to him.....Suddenly,Widget appears beside them and activates one of his arches to another reality.....Kitty and Alistair stare through the arch to a lush forested world....Suddenly an Amazonian female sees Alistair and takes a shine to him...She tries to grab him and take him to her reality but Kitty phases him to stop him being kidnapped.....She then phases through Widget's circuitry,disrupting his electronic form.....He is immediately rendered inactive and the gate to the other world shuts down.....Taking the Widget head with her, they go and join the others...

In a large hall in the Tower,Excalibur and the authorities decide what will happen to their Nazi counterparts....Kitty and Alistair enter and Kitty goes to meet her opposite number....She is shocked and horrifiedat the way she has been treated in the other world and it is all she can do to stop her cutting loose at the Nazi version of Moira.....Rachel decides to diffuse the situation again by grabbing Kitty and flying her outside.....Alistair admires gorgeous Rachel as she leaves......Out side Kitty tells Rachel she wants to free her ghost-like doppleganger's spirit and then go after the world that made her that way.....Kurt joins them telling Kitty they need to help the real Moira and Callisto rather than think about revenge.....A deal has been reached where(using the alternate Earth's magical as well as scientific powers)all persons will be returned to their rightful place of origin....Kitty's not happy that they're getting away Scott-free but she has no other options....She collects the Widget-head and then Rachel flies her home.

As they fly over the Thames,Sat-Yr9 watches them from the Fraser Bank offices where she poses as Courtney Ross.....She admires their power,promising herslf it will soon be hers!!

FIN

limerick

08-03-2009, 11:17 AM

Thoughts on Excalibur # 10:

--Another Alan Davis-less issue,although his abscence is felt less in this issue than the Manhattan issue(#8)....I know he was probably busy at the time getting ready for the Cross-Time Caper....He just doesn't quite seem able to maintain the issue-per-month rate required.

--Captain Britain has an amazingly quick return to form here....He recovers his strength to dispatch of Hautpmann Englande with relative ease in the end.....There was a suggestion that his powers were returning last issue once he got back to England so maybe he needs to be in Britain to get the full benefit of his powers....Although this was not the case previously when he spent time living with Peter Parker in New York so maybe there is some other reason...I'm sure it will be resovled soon.

--Nice trick by Claremont having 616 Meggan swap places with her counter-part off-panel ....I wasn't expecting that....Always nice to be surprised in comics when something is not too well telegraphed but is believable when the reveal occurs.

--Excalibur finally make first contact with Widget....And Kitty names him....this story really has had a slow build

--I' m not sure Alistair came off the better when Kitty rescued him from the Amazonian in the alternative reality....She seemed pretty keen!...Kitty could have let him had a few days there just to see how they got on!!:biggrin:

--It's revealed that the Nazi Excalibur have access to magic powers which are widely used on their world....This magic was used to bridge between the realities to chase down alternate Moira and Callisto.

--As always,Rachel is so hot!!!

Loki

08-03-2009, 11:40 AM

(preventing a repeat of a previous incident where a child,Mickey Scott,was killed during an earlier battle)
Mickey was a teen, rather than a child, though the point still stands. The battle where Mickey died was Brian fighting Meggan, the first time they met.

As they fly over the Thames,Sat-ur-nyne watches them from the Fraser Bank offices where she poses as Courtney Ross.....She admires their power,promising herslf it will soon be hers!!

You means Sat-Yr9 or Sat-Yr-Nin. Saturnyne is her counterpart.

Thoughts on Excalibur # 10:[SIZE="3"]
There was a suggestion that his powers were returning last issue once he got back to England so maybe he needs to be in Britain to get the full benefit of his powers....Although this was not the case previously when he spent time living with Peter Parker in New York so maybe there is some other reason...
Brian's powers have completely altered since he roomed with Peter Parker, so nothing about how they worked then need hold true for how they work now.

limerick

08-03-2009, 01:12 PM

Mickey was a teen, rather than a child, though the point still stands. The battle where Mickey died was Brian fighting Meggan, the first time they met.

You means Sat-Yr9 or Sat-Yr-Nin. Saturnyne is her counterpart.

Brian's powers have completely altered since he roomed with Peter Parker, so nothing about how they worked then need hold true for how they work now.
Re:Mickey Scott---Unfortunately,having only read a few Marvel Superheroes(U.K.) Capain Britain stories (and that was years ago when they were first published so they are a little vague in my memory,to say the least!) I am not familiar with the full Captain Britain history and certainly have not read the Mickey Scott story....If he is up to 15 I don't think describing him as a 'child' is unreasonable or incorrect but if by a teen you mean more like 18-19 then correction accepted.I don't think it's hugely disruptive to the interpretation of the events but as stated before any contribution resulting in more information is gladly accepted

Re:Sat-Yr9...Thanks,I've edited the correct spelling...again a lack of knowledge of CB's past is hindering me there.

limerick

08-03-2009, 01:32 PM

Just to clarify Loki's point about Saturnyne as opposed to Sat-yr9:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/229/663519-1_large.jpg

Sat-Yr9,former dictator of Earth-794....She escaped prison to Earth-616 in a Widget related incident in an earlier issue of Excalibur

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3899/125142-87785-saturnyne_large.jpg

Saturnyne,Omniversal Majestrix and strong right arm to Roma,the Omniversal Guardian recently seen in Uncanny X-men during Fall of The Mutants

creaky

08-04-2009, 03:54 PM

limerick

08-04-2009, 04:43 PM

Am I the only one who finds the idea of Nazi Kurt strange? Not because of the idea of him as evil, but why would white supremacists want to work with a guy who looks like a devil rather than send him straight to the camps or shoot him on the spot??
Good point Creaky.......in fact,how would they interpret mutants even if they looked more human....Would they take a Genoshan attitude to mutants,discriminating against them just because they're different

Loki

08-04-2009, 04:50 PM

Am I the only one who finds the idea of Nazi Kurt strange? Not because of the idea of him as evil, but why would white supremacists want to work with a guy who looks like a devil rather than send him straight to the camps or shoot him on the spot??

I'd assume that firstly he got raised by Mystique's German count husband rather than the gypsy Margali. If the count was influential enough, then he could well have protected Kurt from being targetted as a child, and once Kurt's powers emerged, he'd be considered a useful agent of the state, despite his appearance. Let's not forget that for all their racism, the Nazis could be surprisingly pragmatic about working with "inferior races" when it suited, even making them "honorary Aryans." The SS had Indian members (from India, not Native Americans) before the end of the war.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/175/402449718_2934e2a6a6.jpg
Note the SS man wearing a Sikh turban. So it's not such a stretch that they'd overlook Kurt's skin colour. For at least some of the senior Nazis, evidence suggests racism wasn't their main driving force - a drive for personal power was. Selective racism was simply a way to get the masses to support you, by encouraging fear of "the other" and making various minorities scapegoats for whatever the populace felt ailed them.

DungeonmasterJim

08-05-2009, 08:18 PM

limerick

08-06-2009, 01:18 PM

I remember the art by Marshall Rogers being fairly horrendous in this issue. I'm not sure if it was a total rush job or what but it was YUCK! I think he drew the next issue also and that was horrible! But I'll have to check my collection to make sure.

It was such a huge disappointment when Davis didn't draw an issue. It was vaguely better after he left because I didn't get my hopes up each month after that. He was one of the few artists to 'get' Rachel and draw her iconicly.

DM Jim
Hi,DM Jim,I wasn't sure how bad the art was in it's own right or is it just because I'm comparing it to Davis.....But it does look very rushed and only barely finished in places.....(Looking at it again)If I'm honest it's piss-poor but as I said Davis is a hard act to follow

jarrod

08-06-2009, 01:25 PM

Am I the only one who finds the idea of Nazi Kurt strange? Not because of the idea of him as evil, but why would white supremacists want to work with a guy who looks like a devil rather than send him straight to the camps or shoot him on the spot??
Bloodline? Kurt's still "white" technically.

Also, maybe the more occult base of the Reich took power? Kurt's appearance might've worked his favor rather than against him?

limerick

08-10-2009, 03:46 PM

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.11.GIF

Excalibur # 11...................August 1989

"The Price"

Claremont/Marshall Rogers

Over the Thames River,London,Endland:Phoenix and Shadowcat fly(Kitty is being flown by Rachel)over the financial district of London making their way home from The Tower of London......Below them Nigel Frobisher watches Phoenix,moved once more by her beauty.....Big Ben strikes nine o' clock and Nigel races for his meeting in Fraser's Bank......He has to take the stairs to make it to Courtney Ross's office before the last strike of Big Ben and arrives just in time,exhausted.....But that is not punctual enough for Courtney(Actually,her Earth-794 Doppleganger, Sat-Ur-9)who berates him for being a few seconds late......

Excalibur's Lighthouse Base,West Coast Of Britain:Rachel and Kitty arrive home.....Rachel sees the damage she caused to the lighthouse when she last left and is surprised as she doesn't recall it......She unwittingly takes an image from Kitty's mind of Kitty wearing the baby clothes Rachel changed her pyjamas into when thinking of Nathan/Christopher.....Kitty criticises her for invading her privacy but Rachel apologises explaining she hasn't the control over her powers she should have.....Kitty drops the subject,shocked by the sight of her friend,Illyana's soulsword buried in a rock outside the lighthouse......She is frightened that the sword has once more returned to her following Illyana's reversion to a toddler.....Rachel,to help her friend,tries to remove the sword from the rock but even her awesome telekinetic powers can't budge it......Kitty decides she'll have nothing to do with it and phases into the lighthouse(carrying Widget,which she recovered from the Tower of London).....Suddenly,Rachel hears her scream!......In the trashed lighthouse Kitty finds the unconcious form of her pet dragon,Lockheed,the work of the Nazi version of Excalibur they recently faced.

Fraser's Bank,London:Sat-Ur-9 reminds Nigel of the wager he lost to her for £1Million pounds at a casino recently.....He can't believe she's going to hold him to it but she reminds him his reputation is on the line.....But she suggests they can come to another arrangement,one that will actually bring him what he wants....power,wealth,social position....He willingly agrees and she startles him by putting an earring through his ear,causing him to wince in pain.....She reminds him that he belongs to her and he is never to remove the earring which will be a reminder of this......She then orders him to contact Gatecrasher and The Technet and make them an offer they can't refuse.

The Excalibur Lighthouse:Alistair Stuart arrives at the lighthouse a few days later.....He is dazzled by Rachel when she answers the door,obviously finding her very attractive(who wouldn't!)......Rachel beings him upstairs where Kitty is nursing Lockheed back to health.....Alistair explains that the alternate Nazis were not responsible for the arrival of their train on this 'Earth'......while possessing the power to move a small number of people,moving TWO trains is beyond their capability.....Kitty wonders what could have caused it but then questions why they should believe the Nazis anyway......But Alistair then reveals what he thinks caused the transfer----Widget(who is currently inactive)....He says W.H.O. have carried out all kinds of experimentation on him but have been unable to even dent him and he remanis a mystery......Kitty rules out phasing through him in case she damages him.....Ray suggests that she could try opening him telekinetically.....At this point Kitty becomes frustrated at the attention Alistair is giving Rachel.....Kitty,herself is attracted to him but feels she has no chance against the awesome Phoenix.......As they go downstairs for some soup to warm up Alistair,who was drenched in the heavy rain outside,they miss Widget opening his eyes and showing signs of life!

The Tower of London:Nazi Nightcrawler attempts to assault Brigadier Stuart by teleporting into her room......But Nightcrawler
had anticipated his doppleganger's actions and Meggan had assumed Brigadier Stuart's form and with the help of Brian she recaptures him.....The real Brid. Stuart warns Nazi Moira McTaggert not to try any more tricks but she claims that Nazi Nightcrawler acted independently.....Brig. Stuart is keen to be rid of the Nazis as soon as possible.

The Excalibur Lighthouse:Rachel and Alistair go for a walk the next morning watched by a jealous Kitty who feels she hasn't a chance competing against Rachel's looks and body.....Frustrated she decides to put on her 'sexpot' outfit that Rachel made for her......But it was shrunk by the telekinetic wave that changed Kitty's clothes to baby clothes when Rachel dashed to N.Y.......Instead she heads for Rachel's closet and tries on one of her red leather outfits.......But finding herself lacking the courage to wear Rachel's daring outfit she phases angrily through the clothes leaving her naked and angry......Unfortunately at that moment the lighthouse undergoes another spooky dimensional shift (seen in the early Excalibur issues)and Kitty(&Lockheed) finds herself in a crowded hall facing an 'animal' version of Excalibur as well as a horde of other animal beings.....But her embarrasment is far from complete and she reverts to normal space/time to find herself facing a shocked Alistair and Rachel who have just returned to find her in the buff......Embarrased,she phases to her lab in the basement,mortified at the situation!

Later, in her lab she ponders the mystery of Widget,hoping she hasn't damaged him irrepairibly when she phased through him before.......She suddenly gets a Psi-call from Racel telling her Nightcrawler needs them in the North of England......She notices Widget has become 'sentient' and is chewing some junk....

An Abandoned Railway Line,Northern England:Rachel flies herself,Kitty and Lockheed to an old train station where the Nazi train is parked......Waiting for them are the rest of Excalibur,The Nazi Excalibur and Alistair and Brigadier Stuart and plenty of W.H.O. techs and soldiers.....They all hear a huge roar and Alistair reveals that the train is powered by a huge dragon contained within the train's 'engine'.......On landing Kitty puts Widget down in a bag but he escapes onto the train.....The rest argue over allowing the dragon back to the Nazi alternate reality as he has asked Rachel telepathically for asylum.....Finall,on the advise of her bodyguard,Nazi Moira agrees to leave the train for her own safety....Just then a portal to the Nazi reality opens and the 616 Moira and Callisto and train crew are allowed back to this Earth.....Kitty finds Widget on the train stuffed from a feed of boxes in a train car.....As the Nazi Moira arrives in her own Earth she orders a soldier to throw a nuke-grenade through the closing portal......Phoenix shields everyone fron the blast but the effect supercharges Widget and he activates his transportation abilities sending the train,with Excalibur and Alistair Stuart on board,......somewhere else!!!

FIN

creaky

08-11-2009, 01:50 PM

It's creepy that this is the second alternate Nightcrawler Claremont created that's a sexual predator. And that our Kurt anticipated it!

jarrod

08-11-2009, 01:55 PM

I miss the unsaid possibility of Kurt and Aly. They'd have been cute together.

limerick

08-11-2009, 04:03 PM

It's creepy that this is the second alternate Nightcrawler Claremont created that's a sexual predator. And that our Kurt anticipated it!
I was thinking that when reading it yesterday.....Kurt basically says if I was him I'd probably try to assault her....I'm not sure it rings true that he can predict the other Nightcrawler's actions because they have very little in common other then their D.N.A.!

limerick

08-11-2009, 04:04 PM

jarrod,Creaky....please play paper,scissors,stone for that Avatar.....I'm getting confused!

creaky

08-11-2009, 04:34 PM

I was thinking that when reading it yesterday.....Kurt basically says if I was him I'd probably try to assault her....I'm not sure it rings true that he can predict the other Nightcrawler's actions because they have very little in common other then their D.N.A.!

What bothers me is Claremont's logic that it's supposed to be the dark flipside to Kurt's tendency to flirt. I'm pretty sure that's not how it works.

jarrod,Creaky....please play paper,scissors,stone for that Avatar.....I'm getting confused!

Awwww, I like being an avatar twin! But I will change it soon, because I have one that I'm dying to use.

The Sword Is Drawn

08-12-2009, 05:38 AM

Below them Nigel Frobisher watches Phoenix,moved once more by her beauty.....Big Ben strikes nine o' clock and Nigel races for his meeting in Fraser's Bank......He has to take the stairs to make it to Courtney Ross's office before the last strike of Big Ben and arrives just in time,exhausted.....But that is not punctual enough for Courtney(Actually,her Earth-794 Doppleganger, Sat-Ur-9)who berates him for being a few seconds late......

And so properly begins Nigel's descent. Sat-yr-9's going to have fun with him...

Kitty drops the subject,shocked by the sight of her friend,Illyana's soulsword buried in a rock outside the lighthouse......She is frightened that the sword has once more returned to her following Illyana's reversion to a toddler.....Rachel,to help her friend,tries to remove the sword from the rock but even her awesome telekinetic powers can't budge it......Kitty decides she'll have nothing to do with it and phases into the lighthouse

The Soul Sword is of course Kitty's problem. She can't ignore it, long term. More on that, however, will have to wait a while.

Unfortunately at that moment the lighthouse undergoes another spooky dimensional shift (seen in the early Excalibur issues)and Kitty(&Lockheed) finds herself in a crowded hall facing an 'animal' version of Excalibur as well as a horde of other animal beings.....But her embarrasment is far from complete and she reverts to normal space/time to find herself facing a shocked Alistair and Rachel who have just returned to find her in the buff......Embarrased,she phases to her lab in the basement,mortified at the situation!

Kitty really can't cut a break around Alistaire, can she? A shame. There clearly is a chemistry there.

And another glimpse of a different universe, you say? In the lighthouse, again? Hmmmm. I wonder why that might be... ? :rolleyes:

Phoenix shields everyone fron the blast but the effect supercharges Widget and he activates his transportation abilities sending the train,with Excalibur and Alistair Stuart on board,......somewhere else!!!

When I say 'CROSS-TIME', you say 'CAPER'.

"CROSS-TIME"...

It's creepy that this is the second alternate Nightcrawler Claremont created that's a sexual predator. And that our Kurt anticipated it!

Indeed. Although, as said, I'm sure that the intention is to show the darker side of Kurt's flirtatious nature. But I'm glad that in Excalibur we do SEE Kurt's more flirtatious side. Something we don't see when Fraction writes him as this pure, quiet and tranquil, god-botherer. Who wouldn't say boo to a goose.

God I'm bored with Fraction on Uncanny.

I miss the unsaid possibility of Kurt and Aly. They'd have been cute together.

I'd agree with that. Such a shame.

Loki

08-12-2009, 08:33 AM

Kitty really can't cut a break around Alistaire, can she? A shame. There clearly is a chemistry there.

And people rag on Wisdom and Kitty. But here's 14 year old Kitty pursuing an interest in Alistaire, who in turn is after 18 or so year old Phoenix, only at most a year or so older than Kitty was when she and Wisdom got involved. And how old is Alistaire? He's the twin to an army Brigadier. That's one step below a general, and is a rank that, especially outside of wartime, takes years to attain. Even if Alysande enlisted at 16, she's got to be late 20s/ early 30s minimum. Which means there's a bigger age gap between Alistaire and Phoenix than there was between Wisdom and Kitty , never mind Alistaire and Kitty.

jarrod

08-12-2009, 08:39 AM

I thought it was said somewhere that Alysande achieved her rank exceptionally quickly though? Actually, weren't both her and Alistaire considered "young" for their positions?

Rachel was under 18 when Excalibur formed (referred to as a "child" along with Kitty by law enforcement in #1), so probably 17 still. Kitty should've been 15 though, she'd had two birthdays already in Uncanny after joining at 13.5. I know she then had her 15th birthday in Excalibur during the CTC, but clearly Claremont can't count...

DungeonmasterJim

08-12-2009, 08:56 AM

Issue 11 was another of the very rushed looking art from Marshall Rodgers. It looked pretty terrible. And I use to enjoy his art on the Silver Surfer series from about the same time. :frown:

I did enjoy the Kitty likes Alistaire, but he likes Rachel and Rachel isn't interested at all, except for Franklin triangle. But looking back as someone else mentioned, it's a little creepy now that Claremont was looking to hook up a 13/14/ sometimes 15 year old with guys often quite a bit older than her. Well, I suppose the creepy part was that CC supposedly wanted Cap & Kitty, had Wolvie (okay, supposedly father figure) & Kitty, had Colossus & Kitty, and later on Ellis had a Wisdom & Kitty thing going on. I could see Kitty gushing over these guys but the guys returning the feelings? Yeah, that's getting into awkward territory and I don't care how mature Kitty was for her age.

I kind of wish CC had made Kitty approach Rachel and Alistaire when wearing Rachel's red leather clothes in this issue. It would have made for a great embarrassing scene and learning experience for Kitty. I like Kitty as a character but she should be making mistakes being 14 or 15 at that time.

Overall, vintage Claremont for me.

DM Jim

Loki

08-12-2009, 09:03 AM

I thought it was said somewhere that Alysande achieved her rank exceptionally quickly though? Actually, weren't both her and Alistaire considereing "young" for their positions?

Yes, but young is relative. The youngest Brigadier in World War I, and keep in mind active service during wartime means massively accelerated promotion, was 25. I think (but can't be sure) that he still holds the record. Brigadiers are normally late 30s or into their 40s before they achieve that rank. Likewise, Alistaire was considered young, but young for a man with multiple Ph.Ds. It's still hard to credit either less than a decade older than Rachel, which was the exact age gap stated for Wisdom and Kitty[/quote]

Rachel was under 18 when Excalibur formed (referred to as a "child" along with Kitty by law enforcement in #1), so probably 17 still. Kitty should've been 15 though, she'd had two birthdays already in Uncanny after joining at 13.5. I know she then [spoil]had her 15th birthday in Excalibur during the CTC, but clearly Claremont can't count...

Fair points, which only support what I'm saying. Phoenix here is the same age or younger than Kitty was, while Alistaire is the same age or older than Wisdom was. It's only the perceptions that are different - Phoenix acts older and more sexual than Kitty, Alistaire comes across as more bumbling and innocent about the world than Wisdom. But the ages are pretty much a match in both cases, and the perceptions are wrong, because Kitty and Phoenix are both more mature than they look, aged in advance of their years by their life experiences.

DungeonmasterJim

08-12-2009, 09:13 AM

But the ages are pretty much a match in both cases, and the perceptions are wrong, because Kitty and Phoenix are both more mature than they look, aged in advance of their years by their life experiences.

I agree with Kitty being more mature but I'm not so sure about Rachel. One thing I liked about Rachel around the Excalibur time was that she was very prone to outbursts of rage. I've read a couple of different times that CC meant Rachel as a character that didn't realize her sexual appeal to others. She had some mommy & daddy issues then but they weren't the character standard she later became known for. She's gone through some REALLY rough times so I would say she's quite hardened to certain things in life but she never seemed able to control her emotions all that often. So I peg her as hit or miss on the maturity level but that's part of the reason I enjoyed her as a character.

DM Jim

jarrod

08-12-2009, 09:16 AM

Oh true, the age gap between them is similar, and yeah there does seem to be a bit of double standard there. I guess the difference was Kitty/Wisdom being consummated while the Rachel/Alistaire/Kitty triangle never really went beyond one way crushes. Though, in fairness I could also bring up the similar Brian/Meggan age gap again. :P

Actually, CC seemed to have thing for mildly disturbing age gap romances (Kitty/Pitor, Betsy/Doug, Magnus/Rogue). Still does really, Nocturne & Juggernaut grossed me out.

DungeonmasterJim

08-12-2009, 09:30 AM

LOL! I like your post Jarrod.

The Brian/Meggan gap never bothered me out of my own ignorance. I just always thought of Meggan as in her early 20's and uneducated because of her childhood circumstances.

Actually, what the heck is Meggan's age? Or estimated age since a character's age in comics tends to be one of the more convoluted things in their history.

DM Jim

jarrod

08-12-2009, 09:38 AM

DungeonmasterJim

08-12-2009, 09:42 AM

jarrod

08-12-2009, 09:44 AM

I hope not, if only because Betsy/ Doug is as nasty as Kitty/name your man-slut.

Man! I'm really starting to get skeeved out by Claremont and his under/over age romances.

DM Jim
Well, you can argue the exact age, but most estimates peg the twins around 26-29 then. Betsy's pretty much confirmed that when she remarked on being twice Kitty's age in Uncanny right after the Massacre (Kitty was 15 at the time, making Doug 15-16, lol).

And yeah, CC's generation gap fetish is definitely always present, if not always picked up on or pointed out.

Loki

08-12-2009, 09:50 AM

Cornell touched on the Brian/Meggan gap in the CB&MI13 annual, going so far as to have some call Brian a pedo during their (very public) Excalibur days. I think he laid out an age for Meg too, and Loki/Sword correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was 17 during the Jaspers Warp (which would've made her 18-20 when Excalibur formed?). The gap could be smaller, Brian was mid to late 20s then iirc.
Meggan was 17 when she got imprisoned - she spent at least 3 months interred and a further six after that before she met Brian, so she was likely 18 by the time she met him. There's probably something between 6 to 10 years between them. Remember that the whole flashback showed people misjudging Meggan because of her appearance, except for Brian (well, after their initial fight, but there he had reason, since she attacked him and had already made an unprovoked attack on someone else). Hence the comments by people judging her (or rather, Brian via her) were intended as no more accurate than the people who thought her a monster.

jarrod

08-12-2009, 09:55 AM

Meggan was 17 when she got imprisoned - she spent at least 3 months interred and a further six after that before she met Brian, so she was likely 18 by the time she met him. There's probably something between 6 to 10 years between them. Remember that the whole flashback showed people misjudging Meggan because of her appearance, except for Brian (well, after their initial fight, but there he had reason, since she attacked him and had already made an unprovoked attack on someone else). Hence the comments by people judging her (or rather, Brian via her) were intended as no more accurate than the people who thought her a monster.
Technically, if she was assuming the appearance of Brian's ideal though, and she appeared "too young", wouldn't that make the "pedo" slur still apply? :D

I loved Cornell's take on their relationship though. Really interesting stuff, especially on the subject of choice... in a real sense, Meg was the pursuer in it all.

limerick

08-12-2009, 05:01 PM

Thoughts on Excalibur # 11:

--As Dungeonmaster Jim says the art is woeful and obviously rushed,probably due to Rogers having been given an impossible deadline at short notice due to Davis falling behind.....This issue is probably the worst art I've seen on an X-book from the 70's through the '80's.....The last few pages, in particular,are so poorly realised and what should have been a dramatic build-up to the Cross Time Caper ends up being a bit of a damp squid,which is a shame because I feel in Davis's hands this could have been a masterpiece.....But then every issue by him is a masterpiece......DM Jim mentioned something before which I can recall clearly at the time----the sense of disappointment when Davis took a month off.....And don't forget there were no internet wranings back then----you only found out when you got to your LCS or when the mail order arrived

--I did think Moira looked like she'd been drawn by Davis in the last panel of page25....It just looks like his style on that one panel which I found wierd....It's probably just me..:redface:

--More Nigel Frobisher----Where is this going with him??:confused: ....Claremont is going for even longer story build-ups than usual......Another example is Widget....after being completely confused as to what was going on with him(I was convinced first-time around that there was a back story to him in the Cap. Britain back catalogue)we finally are learning what he's all about!

--Sorry to harp on but while glancing back at this issue again the art is so poor and bare....shame.

--Following up on the discussion regarding Rachel/Alistaire/Kitty.....I don't see anything wrong in this case.....Kitty has a crush on Alistaire but he doesn't return the sentiment in any way....And although Rachel is younger than him,she is 18 and I guess that makes it okay....But Claremont does have a thing for this type of set-up.....I was never comfortable with Kitty/Peter....18/13 is not a good age match in my book....But Doug/Betsy was just wrong ....What was she doing?.....I know he didn't live long enough for anything to happen but she was thinking that way:eek:

--A question.....Kitty has Widget with her when she returns to the lighthouse at the start of the issue.....But later Alistair has him.....So why did she bother taking him in the first place .....Why didn't she leave him with W.H.O. in The Tower of London while they were there??It seems strange that they would have gone back to London with him within a couple of days?

--Very little Captain Britain in this issue....I mised him....He's such a great character and Claremont has done great things presenting a rounded character with plenty of flaws(and good points!)to make him interesting......When he's teleported away at the end with the rest of the team he hasn't got his normal uniform,which will make for interesting reading next issue.

--Another interdimensional shift in their headquarters with Kitty suffering the ultimate humiliation of appearing naked before her prospective boyfriend.....I had forgotten about these strange occurances because of the Inferno-induced break fro the lighthouse----From the look of things we won't be discovering more about them for a while.:wink:

--Finally,at the end how did they all end up on the train before it teleported?.....Phoenix was outside blocking the grenade and I find it hard to believe Alistaire would be on the train while an inter-dimensional prisoner swap was taking place just outside.....The same goes for Cap Britain and Meggan....The only ones definitely shown on the train were Shadowcat and Lockheed(and Widget)

creaky

08-12-2009, 06:31 PM

Kitty really can't cut a break around Alistaire, can she? A shame. There clearly is a chemistry there.

I love that he won't return her affections. It's a nice change of pace.

Indeed. Although, as said, I'm sure that the intention is to show the darker side of Kurt's flirtatious nature. But I'm glad that in Excalibur we do SEE Kurt's more flirtatious side. Something we don't see when Fraction writes him as this pure, quiet and tranquil, god-botherer. Who wouldn't say boo to a goose.

True. My problem is with the idea of rape as the dark side of flirting, which to me reads like the old trope that rape is about lust. Which it's not.
Kurt as lustful I have no problem with and I'm a firm believer in Kurt's dark side. But that he's supposed to be more prone to rape than other characters, that I can't see.

God I'm bored with Fraction on Uncanny.

So am I. Just waiting for it to end. More than likely, though, he'll just be replaced by some other disaster.

The Sword Is Drawn

08-13-2009, 04:42 AM

--More Nigel Frobisher----Where is this going with him??:confused: ....Claremont is going for even longer story build-ups than usual......Another example is Widget....after being completely confused as to what was going on with him(I was convinced first-time around that there was a back story to him in the Cap. Britain back catalogue)we finally are learning what he's all about!

You think that's long? Remember poor Colin from #'s 1 & 2? Yeah, we're on #11 now and we've still not seen him again. And we won't be seeing him for quite some time...

Excalibur really was played as a long game. Very rewarding, but just not possible to reproduce in modern comics, Marvel wouldn't back a book for THAT long.

--Another interdimensional shift in their headquarters with Kitty suffering the ultimate humiliation of appearing naked before her prospective boyfriend.....I had forgotten about these strange occurances because of the Inferno-induced break fro the lighthouse----From the look of things we won't be discovering more about them for a while.:wink:

But don't forget about them. Because they are happening for a reason...

--Finally,at the end how did they all end up on the train before it teleported?.....Phoenix was outside blocking the grenade and I find it hard to believe Alistaire would be on the train while an inter-dimensional prisoner swap was taking place just outside.....The same goes for Cap Britain and Meggan....The only ones definitely shown on the train were Shadowcat and Lockheed(and Widget)

Yeah. I'd blame the artwork for that, too. A shame. But I think it was largely down to running out of page space.

I love that he won't return her affections. It's a nice change of pace.

I think it's more that it just kind of goes over Alistaire's head, a lot of the time. He's just so focussed on his own things.

Of course we'll be seeing a lot more of Mr Stuart in the issuers to come. He's often forgotten about, but he was every bit as much a part of Excalibur as the others.

True. My problem is with the idea of rape as the dark side of flirting, which to me reads like the old trope that rape is about lust. Which it's not.
Kurt as lustful I have no problem with and I'm a firm believer in Kurt's dark side. But that he's supposed to be more prone to rape than other characters, that I can't see.

Rape is also about abuse of power, though. Lightning Force are kind of celebrities on their world, and their Kurt certainly seems like he quite likes to use that celebrity to his own end. Plus, in a Nazi ruled world, I can pretty much guarantee that Kurt would not have developed the same sense of Christian duty he did in ours. Hitler was not big on Christianity.

So am I. Just waiting for it to end. More than likely, though, he'll just be replaced by some other disaster.

I hope not. There actually are far more talented writers on Marvel's books at the moment, who would be a much better fit.

limerick

08-17-2009, 06:45 AM

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.12.GIF

Excalibur # 12...................September 1989

"My Friends Call Me 'Billy The Kid'"----The Cross-Time Caper Part 1

Claremont/Alan Davis/Neary

England,An Alternate Earth:The teenage heir to the throne,Prince William,in full knight's armour, wanders the countryside on his horse,Goliath,looking for a knightly quest to carry out,as per his parent's request......As he listens to his walkman he comments how boring things are.....until suddenly a train materialises beside him ,moving at pace,and hits a tree after ploughing through the ground......William goes to investigate and spots Kitty Pryde unconcious on the ground....Lockheed flies worriedly over her but William sees this as the chance he's been waiting for and ,deploying his lance, tries to take Lockheed out......Lockheed blasts him with a blast of flames but William keeps coming..sort of....he struggles to take his sword out of it's scabbard and Lockheed sighs at the sight of his unimpressive attacker.

Watched by several airborne tiny fairies,Captain Britain,Meggan,Nightcrawler,Phoenix and Alistaire Stuart emerge shaken but intact from the damaged train.....They are unsure where they have ended up but Meggen says it feels like 'home'.

Prince William finally frees his sword and has a few unsuccessful swipes at Lockheed....Tiring of his attacker,the dragon uses his fire breathe to drop a large branch onto the Prince's head,knocking him out.

The Pier,Brighton,England:As per his boss's instructions ,Nigel Frobisher arrives in Brighton to track down The Technet......As he approaches the pier he is surrounded by torrential rain but ,amazingly,on the pier,itself,the sun shines as if it has it's own micro-climate.....He encounters Bodybag who he deals with by shoving an umbrella in his mouth and opening it......But he is unable to counter Joyboy,China Doll and Waxworksand he finds his body warped out of shape after they all take a turn using their powers on him......As China Doll and Waxworks fight over him,Nigel is sent flying through a window and his distorted,shrunken body lands on Gatecrasher's knee....She is furious at having her meeting with three dignitaries from Brighton Town Council interrupted and demands an explanation.

Al9ternate England:Prince William comes around in the train and finds himself gazing up at the recovered Kitty.....He is instantly smitten but this only winds Lockheed up .....As Captain Britain moves to seperate William from Lockheed,the Prince recognises him as Captain Marshall,champion of the Realm.....Brian explains he is mistaken......They move outside where Meggan has made friends with the fairies and is glowing with a radiant light of happiness.....The Prince(out of earshot of Lockheed)asks Nightcrawler if Kitty has a 'sweetheart'!

Inside the train Kitty,Alistaire and Rachel try to figure out how Widget works.....Kitty stares lovingly at Alistaire as he concludes they are in a parallel universe where magic rules as much as science......He wonders if they can make Widget replicate the jump again.....Rachel wonders if that would be wise......

Suddenly,hurricane-like winds develop outside and an a huge,flying,tentacled snake-like creature,a Shaitan,attacks Excalibur......It smashes one of the train carraiges with it's powerful tentacles and grabs Kitty,Rachel and Alistaire......Rachel uses her powers to break free but Kitty's phasing powers won't work for some reason and the creature begins to carry her and Alistaire away.....Rachel finds the creature is immune to her telepathy and her telekinesis doesn't work much better.......Although she can't phase herself,Kitty successfully tries to phase Alistair free.....He falls towards the ground but Rachel saves him......Kitty is gone,though,taken by the creature.....Meggan says the faeries can tell her where the Shaitan is gone.

The Shaitan brings Kitty to a dark dreary castle where he dumps her in a large jar.....Asecond jar beside her contains another prisoner.....a girl about her age.....The owner of the castle,an Ogre,appears and says he is holding both of them for ransom.....Kitty warms him that she has powerful friends and he would be wise to free her.....The other prisoner is a princess who is hoping a prince will rescue her.....The castle wall smahes in as Brian arrives to save Kitty......A battle follows between the Ogre and Excalibur with Brian eventually overcoming him......During the battle Rachel falls into what she believes to be the castle moat......But it is actually an elemental being who tries to cease control of her......She refuses Meggan's offer of help and eventually resists the elemental,destroying the castle in the process......Meanwhile,Nightcrawler and the Prince goto rescue Kitty and the Princess......William uses his sword to smash their glass prisons.....He is thankful to free Kitty,a fact which takes the princess back a little.....Suddenly the shards of glass reform into a creature which tries to attack the princess......As the Prince again uses his sword to smash the glass,she grabs him,grateful for his help......Rachel protects them from the castle as it collapses around them.

As the dust clears Meggan flirtingly scolds Kurt for teleporting,in case he strained himself......Brian is a little startled by her closeness to Kurt..........The Princess kisses William,thanking him for saving her.....But he apologises to her,saing his heart is pledged to another......With that ,he drops to one knee and proposes to Kitty!!

FIN

kk1

08-17-2009, 03:36 PM

One of my favorite pictures of Kitty ever, she never looked as good as when drawn by Alan Davis.

limerick

08-17-2009, 03:49 PM

One of my favorite pictures of Kitty ever, she never looked as good as when drawn by Alan Davis.
Kitty looks particularly good in this issue as Davis conveys her attractiveness that lures the Prince.....Davis(with Neary finishes!)is the business.....good to hear from you,kk1...it's been a while,I think!

kk1

08-17-2009, 06:57 PM

Kitty looks particularly good in this issue as Davis conveys her attractiveness that lures the Prince.....Davis(with Neary finishes!)is the business.....good to hear from you,kk1...it's been a while,I think!

Thanks,was on vacation didn't touch a computer :cool:

limerick

08-18-2009, 04:46 PM

Thoughts on Excalibur # 12:

--Great first page as Davis closes in on the Prince revealing that he's got shades and a walkman....despite appearing from a distance to be decked out as a typical 'Knight' on horseback...It tells you straight away this won't be quite the place you think it is.

--Davis is so good at conveying Lockheed's thoughts and motivations....All without saying a word.....*limerick shudders at the thought of Lockheed speaking!*

--Prince William mistakes Captain Britain for Captain Marshall.....probably a nod to guest artist,Marshall,over the last two issues..

--Kitty does look great in this issue,especially when William regains conciousness and finds himself gazing at her....Also when she's gazing at Alistaire,she looks fantastic.

--Why does Rachel spend most of the first half of the issue with a flaming head,Phoenix effect....I don't remember her assuming that appearance in a non-battle situation before in Excalibur...It seems a bit strange?

--Butch the Ogre....Marvels greatest ever character???!!!...Brilliant dialogue from him by Claremont...Bring him back please!

--Good to see Brian back to his fighting best on page 25...Glad he ditched the Queensbury rules to give the Ogre a good beating!

--Some strange Meggan details in this issue....She claims to feel like she's at 'home' when she arrives on this alternate Earth....Is there a big secret to be revealed or is this place just in tune with her nature?.....She comments that Rachel sounds afraid of her on page 29....What can she mean?....Finally she changes into a female version of Nightcrawler in front of Brian without even noticing....Is she getting closer to him than she should?

--Another 'misleading' cover which conveys a much fiercer Prince William(also blonde while the real one in the issue is dark-haired)....Also Brian's costume is blue inside but red on the cover....I can't understand differences like that when Davis is doing both the cover and the interior art.

--A great opening to this 9-parter...here's hoping it stays this good!

Chris Lang

08-19-2009, 02:17 AM

A great opening to this 9-parter...here's hoping it stays this good!

I don't know if it stays as good (though it does have some fun moments ... one issue later in the series is really wild and over the top, with some strange cameos from creatures you wouldn't expect), but it doesn't stay a nine-parter. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up to each of us to decide.

The Sword Is Drawn

08-19-2009, 03:19 AM

--Davis is so good at conveying Lockheed's thoughts and motivations....All without saying a word.....*limerick shudders at the thought of Lockheed speaking!*

Davis certainly had a skill for it, I agree. This is really the point in the series where Lockheed starts to become less of a pet and more of an actual team member. This is where that properly begins, and if that hadn't ever happened then I don't think that the retcon in Astonishing recently could have been even vaguely considered.

--Prince William mistakes Captain Britain for Captain Marshall.....probably a nod to guest artist,Marshall,over the last two issues..

You know, I'd never even thought of that. It's possible. Although I always thought it was 'Captain Marshal,' as in a the role of 'Marshal'. Maybe I've been reading that wrong?

--Kitty does look great in this issue,especially when William regains conciousness and finds himself gazing at her....Also when she's gazing at Alistaire,she looks fantastic.

Davis really makes Kitty's blue costume work on Excalibur, too. When I think of Shadowcat that's always going to be the costume I associate with the character.

--Why does Rachel spend most of the first half of the issue with a flaming head,Phoenix effect....I don't remember her assuming that appearance in a non-battle situation before in Excalibur...It seems a bit strange?

Strange/ I believe the word you are looking for is COOL. :biggrin:

A great opening to this 9-parter...here's hoping it stays this good!

It actually reads a lot easier as a complete unit, but believe me when you're waiting monthly the Cross-time Caper did begin to grate towards the last few issues...

The Sword Is Drawn

08-19-2009, 03:24 AM

I don't know if it stays as good (though it does have some fun moments ... one issue later in the series is really wild and over the top, with some strange cameos from creatures you wouldn't expect), but it doesn't stay a nine-parter. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up to each of us to decide.

I certainly think that as a complete storry it's still remembered fondly conceptually by fans, but yeah, it's a bit testing in the long run.

I love the multiverse stuff, by and large, but not all of the What If...? worlds towards the end are as strong as the earlier ones. But it really does get remembered as being the first series to properly do a story like this in serial form, and make it work. Over a decade before eXiles, as well.

Loki

08-19-2009, 04:55 AM

Thoughts on Excalibur # 12:
--Butch the Ogre....Marvels greatest ever character???!!!...Brilliant dialogue from him by Claremont...Bring him back please!
He was back, albeit in cameo, in Uncanny X-Men at the start of the House of M story.

--Some strange Meggan details in this issue....She claims to feel like she's at 'home' when she arrives on this alternate Earth....Is there a big secret to be revealed or is this place just in tune with her nature?.....
This is where a lot of people started getting the faerie idea. Claremont probably was toying with the possibility, or at least teasing the reader, but never developed it and later writers reconfirmed what Claremont had said in his first issue (and Delano and Davis had said originally) - no real big secret. For someone who can sense a world's natural energies, this place is a breath of fresh air, especially after Inferno. Ever seen Shawshank Redemption? Inferno was the sewer pipe Andy Dufresne crawled through, and this world is the river and rain afterwards that washed him clean again.

She comments that Rachel sounds afraid of her on page 29....What can she mean?....
Later issues will reveal what's up - she and Phoenix are mentally overlapping - both have had their normal defenses weakened by the recent Inferno, and their similar way of looking at time, both living very much for the present, plus Meggan's normal empathic synching to people, are all combining to cause the problem.

Finally she changes into a female version of Nightcrawler in front of Brian without even noticing....Is she getting closer to him than she should?
Yes.

limerick

08-19-2009, 01:04 PM

The Sword is Drawn,I've still got the issue out and it is 'Marshall' with two L's so I think it probably is a reference to Marshall,the filler artist....it would be a nice little touch(possibly at Davis' request?) as I get the feeling that Marshall was given very little notice for issue # 11

limerick

08-19-2009, 01:08 PM

Loki,that was the way I interpreted Meggan's affinity for that reality as well ---That it was close to her nature but not necessarily where she originates from.....You descrbie it well with the Shawshank Redemption image....I was thinking of the way a comic fan feels at their LCS.:biggrin:

limerick

08-19-2009, 01:15 PM

I don't know if it stays as good (though it does have some fun moments ... one issue later in the series is really wild and over the top, with some strange cameos from creatures you wouldn't expect), but it doesn't stay a nine-parter. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up to each of us to decide.
Chris,it's been ages since I read it so I have only vague memories of the complete story....I seem to recall a female Judge Dredd-type character but that may be from Davis' later solo run on Excalibur....Anyway,I'm really enjoying Excalibur at the moment and it's probably the best book at the moment that I'm rediscovering for the 'From the Beginning ' Threads....Hope you can continue to post your thoughts

Chris Lang

08-19-2009, 01:58 PM

Chris,it's been ages since I read it so I have only vague memories of the complete story....I seem to recall a female Judge Dredd-type character but that may be from Davis' later solo run on Excalibur....Anyway,I'm really enjoying Excalibur at the moment and it's probably the best book at the moment that I'm rediscovering for the 'From the Beginning ' Threads....Hope you can continue to post your thoughts

By the way, when I said 'one issue later', I wasn't referring to the next issue involving the Prince. No, I'm referring to the issue where Excalibur discovers this really, really, weird world with lots of bizarre cameos. And where Galactus appears to be played by Graham Chapman of Monty Python fame. You'll know it when you get to it. :smile:

limerick

08-19-2009, 03:42 PM

By the way, when I said 'one issue later', I wasn't referring to the next issue involving the Prince. No, I'm referring to the issue where Excalibur discovers this really, really, weird world with lots of bizarre cameos. And where Galactus appears to be played by Graham Chapman of Monty Python fame. You'll know it when you get to it. :smile:
Sounds great!.....I love hearing peoples different interpretations of the same story....'Graham Chapman as Galactus'...That is a unique image!

Chris Lang

08-20-2009, 07:18 PM

Man Alan Davis made this issue so fun, dark and in the spirit of Inferno but still fun. And enjoy this while you can next issue is the first non Alan Davis issue and ...ughhh you can see how much a good artist adds to the story.
You need to show the awesome open wrap around cover.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/a/ab/Excalibur_7_001.jpg

Unfortunately, the wrap-around cover doesn't show up here. A shame, too. I like the scene of Kitty with the Soul Armor fighting her way past demons and all. Without the other half of the wrap-around cover, you don't get the same effect.

Anyway, Excalibur #7 had its flaws (it seems they skipped over the point where the movie world transitions from 'Fred and Ginger dance' to 'sword and sorcery' -- they just cut back to Nightcrawler, and then when we rejoin the movie world, it's already transitioned), but I liked it anyway. Both Kitty's story and Nightcrawler's story are among my favorite Excalibur moments, and my favorite Inferno moments as well.

limerick

08-24-2009, 04:37 PM

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.13.GIF

Excalibur # 13...................October 1989

"The Marriage of True Minds'"----The Cross-Time Caper Part 2

Claremont/Alan Davis/Neary

London,England,An Alternate Earth:Captain Britain ,watched by Nightcrawler,Kitty and Meggan ,tries on his new uniform given to him by The Royal Scientists/Magicians.....They tell him it absorbs and stores the magiks native to the British Isles ,that give him his power,more effeciently than his old uniform.....They mention that while natural magiks of the world will keep him alive,he needs the U.K. magiks to give him his special abilities.....Meggan's powers work in a similar way and that is why they both suffered problems with their powers in the U.S.A. during INFERNO.

Kitty joins Alistair on a balcony where he eagarly takes photographs of this Alternate Earth......He comments on how fantastic this place is with creatures thriving here that exist only in storybooks in his own Earth.......He is distracted by the arrival of Phoenix who has carried their train telekinetically from their arrival crash site.....He is obviously taken with her----A fact which makes Kitty a little jealous.....Rachel,Kitty and Alistair move back inside where they are just in time for the arrival of the Queen Mother(who looks like an older,fatter version of Courtney Ross) and the Queen Consort......The Queen Mother greets them telling Brian he is wearing the costume of Captain Marshall.....Secretly,to herself she comments on the similarity of Brian to Marshall,her former lover.....Brian thinks similar thoughts about her similarity to Saturnyne....Next the Queen Mother meets Kitty,who her grandson has fallen in love with.....She asks Kitty about her feelings towards his marriage proposal.....Kitty suggests letting him down gently but the Q.M. tells her refusal of the proposal is not an option....Suddenly,using magiks of her own she teleports herself,Kitty and The Queen Consort to an unknown destination,shocking the rest of Excalibur......They race out of the chamber to start looking for her.....But when they exit it they find a guard waiting for them who tells them he has to escort them to their rooms....When Nightcrawler starts telling him to stuff his orders the guard says he may have to set 'the Lads' on them.....Looking up they see huge,armed Troll-like guards watching their every move!

Brighton Pier,Brighton,England(616):The town councillors leave their meeting with Gatecrasher having reached an agreement with her.....The Technet will use their abilities to ensure good weather while the Technet will remain resident on the pier.....The rest of the Technet aren't very impressed with having to stay in Brighton but Gatecrasher reminds them they have to stay on Earth until they complete their mission of capturing Phoenix.....One of the Technet asks Gatecrasher what they should do with the horrifically transformed Nigel Frobisher......But the effects of his transformation start to wear off and he tells them he's here to hire them to release James Braddock from his imprisonment under Doc Croc in Africa.....Hearing the Braddock name,Gatecrasher agrees to the contract...for a fee!

London,The Alternate EarthKitty is held in a stasis energy beam in a lab which is magical rather than scientific in nature......The Queen Mother watches as her magical aides analyse Kitty's magical potential.....They discover her link to the black magic that Illyana
controlled but decide that her spirit is so independent it will not be tainted if she uses the magic.....Despite some protest from the Queen Consort about Kitty's protests to being married to Prince William,The Queen Mother tells her William has chosen Kitty so she must be his future Queen.....The Queen Mother,Queen Consort and the magical aides begin casting spells which will alter Kitty physically,making her more suitable as a bride for William.....They also begin casting a spell to remove her resistance to the plan.....Kitty psi-screams to Rachel for help!

Excalibur's Guest Quarters,The Palace:Rachel hears Kitty's screams and Excalibur burst out of their room towards it's source......They are met by the giant Ogrel-ike palace guards and a fight breaks out between them as Excalibur try to reach Kitty.....But the fight comes to an abrupt end as The Q.M. arrives into the chamber and presents Kitty,safe and well......In fact she is greatly changed.....Taller,slimmer,more refined----she is everything a princess should be......Excalibur are shocked and Rachel demands the process is reversed feeling Kitty has been forced into this transformation......But Kitty,herself,says she is happy with the changes and tells Rachel to confirm that by probing her mind......Rachel does,confirming Kitty's statement as the truth......Kitty tells them she wants to marry the Prince and remain in this reality!

Later on Excalibur's train,Excalibur are puzzled by the change to Kitty......Alistaire tries to figure out how Widget functions but without Kitty to bounce ideas off he's getting nowhere.......

Outside Kitty walks with William in the grounds of the castle......He shows her his own private castle,a miniature castle in the huge palatial gardens......Prince William hints he's not completely happy with the changes to Kitty when suddenly three Trolls break through the castle floor kidnapping the two of them.....But Kitty escapes the clutches of two of the Trolls by phasing through their hands.....Using her powers she rescues Prince William from the other Troll as he was taking the Prince down a subterranean tunnel......As Kitty phases them back to the surface she briefly returns to her original size and appearance but after a few seconds the recent alterations to her height and appearance return.....

Kitty's Bedroom,The Palace:Later that night Kitty is asleep in bed when she is attacked by three Shadow-like sentient creatures......Phoenix and C.B. immediately come to her aid and find themselves in difficulty battlingtwo of the creatures.....Kitty escapes the third by phasing through the floor.....She rejoins her team-mates,once again back to her smaller,original size.....She rescues Rachel from the shadow creature surrounding her by phasing her free....

Elsewhere Nightcrawler and Meggan fly to a castle,rompted by a tip-off by the new faeirie friends of Meggan's.....Spying through the castle window they see the princess they rescued previously(see last issue)controlling the creatures battling the rest of Excalibur via a crystal ball of sorts.....She tells them that no lasting harm should come to anyone....except Kitty!......Meggan grabs the princess while Nightcrawler smashes the crystal ball.....They deduce that the Ogre and Shaitan were also under her command,a fact she confirms....

Back in the palace,the shadow-creatures disapate....leaving Rachel,Brian and Kitty puzzled....

Later still,the princess,Kate,faces the Queen Mother as her plan is revealed by Excalibur......She confesses she did it for love----her love of Prince William.....He is initally shocked but then realises he feels the same way.....He withdraws his proposal to Kitty and asks the Queen Mother for permission to marry Kate instead.....The Queen Mother agrees(The others are all unaware that her plan all along was for William to fall in love with Kate---that was why she sent him on his quest into her domain.....She smiles to herself,delighted with the outcome)

FIN

Loki

08-24-2009, 05:29 PM

They tell him it absorbs and stores the magiks native to the British Isles ,that give him his power,more effeciently than his old uniform.....
Linking in with what I say below, this is a good example of the sorcerers not knowing what they are on about, as Roma later confirms the costume doesn't work more efficiently for Brian, it works less, because it is not attuned to him.

They mention that while natural magiks of the world will keep him alive,he needs the U.K. magiks to give him his special abilities.....Meggan's powers work in a similar way and that is why they both suffered problems with their powers in the U.S.A. during INFERNO.
Here the sorcerers are making a bad assumption. They figure Brian's powers are identical to his late counterparts, and that Meggan's powers work the same way. We know for sure they are wrong about Meggan - shortly after she took on her favourite form, she and Brian went on an extended world tour that took them away from the UK for months. While arguably Brian might have been protected from power loss during that time by his costume, Meggan wouldn't have been, yet she had no ill effects. What affected Meggan during Inferno was the Inferno itself - the demonic energies didn't agree with her, any more than the rampant pollution in Justicer Bull's world does in a few issues time.

limerick

08-25-2009, 03:57 PM

Thoughts on Excalibur # 13:

--A new costume for Brian and some theories as to how his power operates.....But as Loki points out.....are these theories true??.....I like his new look but it's not too much of a departue and at a push I have to say I probably prefer the old costume.....One thing I find a bit puzzling...Does Captain Britain's power derive from his costume(not necessarily this one)and if so how come he has powers when not wearing it??(see last issue)

--James Braddock is referred to in this issue and the Technet will surely be releasing him in the next while....Unfortunately I know very little of his history before Excalibur.....Maybe Loki or The Sword is Drawn...or anyone(!)could fill us in!

--I was unsure what caused the spell on Kitty to occasionally reverse....was it meant to be the use of her mutant powers that caused that....Claremont doesn't completely elaborate on it.....Maybe he was trying to point out that Kitty's natural spirit could never be properly tamed,even through magic?

--It's great seeing Kitty taking centre stage in this issue although it does mean the rest of Excalibur are in the background a little bit.....But I must say this wasn't my favourite issue so far.....The alternate world scenario means all aspects of the story have to be wrapped up by the end of this issue and it just leaves the narrative feeling a little forced for me.....not bad by any means but not as good as some previous issues.(IMHO,of course!)

--There is a nod to the real Royal family of the time with the prince being called William and The Queen Consort is a ringer for Princess Diana

--Meggan has a different appearance from her usual 'female version of Brian' look on the last page.....Is that from her association with the faeiries in this issue?.....Or is her natural affinity to this reality bringing out this look in her?

Loki

08-25-2009, 04:26 PM

--James Braddock is referred to in this issue and the Technet will surely be releasing him in the next while....Unfortunately I know very little of his history before Excalibur.....Maybe Loki or The Sword is Drawn...or anyone(!)could fill us in!
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/braddockj.htm

limerick

08-25-2009, 04:31 PM

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/braddockj.htm
Thanks for that link,Loki.....Much appreciated!

The Sword Is Drawn

08-26-2009, 03:58 AM

--A new costume for Brian and some theories as to how his power operates.....But as Loki points out.....are these theories true??.....I like his new look but it's not too much of a departue and at a push I have to say I probably prefer the old costume.....

Of course the key reason that the costume was changed is nowhere near as intriguing. All those close lines of the Union Flag motif were making inking, coloring and printing the book a bit of a headache. Back in the 80s printing wasn't always quite so precise, and if the colour happened to get printed slightly off centre on the page it created a bit of a mess. So I believe that Davis was asked to alter the costume - making it less... fiddly. :biggrin:

One thing I find a bit puzzling...Does Captain Britain's power derive from his costume(not necessarily this one)and if so how come he has powers when not wearing it??(see last issue)

A Captain has powers naturally, as of when Merlyn or Roma gives them to him/her, in turning them into Captain Britain. The costume is merely a back up. An amplifier, mostly, but can also give non-powered individuals the power of flight, and increased strength and agility.

This was how Albion gave powers to all those mutants who had lost theirs on M-Day, in Claremont's New Excalibur.

--James Braddock is referred to in this issue and the Technet will surely be releasing him in the next while....Unfortunately I know very little of his history before Excalibur.....Maybe Loki or The Sword is Drawn...or anyone(!)could fill us in!

Well, Loki's given you the full version, now.

Jamie has been around since the very early issues of Captain Britain - Brian's older brother, who eventually went off to become a fairly successful Racing Driver. Unlike Psylocke, however, this Braddock sibling had never shown any sign of having had any special powers or abilities in main Marvel continuity.

In fact, when the Mastermind computer explained Brian and Betsy's heritage to them, during Jamie Delano's Captain Britain run, he told them that while the Otherworld Genes in Brian and Betsy were active, those in older Brother Jamie did not work.

In terms of more immediate continuity the last we had seen of Jamie before Excalibur was in Africa, during Jamie Delano's Captain Britain run. Jamie had contacted Brian, because he was in trouble - held captive by an African Warlord (I guess Warlord) by the name of Doctor Crocodile. Brian went to rescue his brother, but through the elaborate use of hallucinogens the Doctor showed Brian exactly what his Brother had gotten involved with. Illegal slave trading, sex slaves, all sorts of unsavoury stuff. Doctor Crocodile wanted to punish him for it.

And in an a somewhat extraordinary move Brian let him. Disgusted with his brother, he left him behind, for Crocodile to do his worst.

Pretty harsh, no?

That might just come back to bite him soon...

Loki

08-26-2009, 04:30 AM

In terms of more immediate continuity the last we had seen of Jamie before Excalibur was in Africa, during Jamie Delano's Captain Britain run. Jamie had contacted Brian, because he was in trouble - held captive by an African Warlord (I guess Warlord) by the name of Doctor Crocodile.

Actually, despite the name and appearance, Dr. Crocodile isn't a warlord and is an example of a genuinely good African ruler. Of course, the name and appearance were designed to give the initial impression otherwise. But then you learn it is his people who named him, and that was done affectionately. You can link to his (slightly out of date) entry on the Marvel Appendix via the Jamie Braddock link I posted. But as to his rule, here's a bit of Mbangawi's history from the Marvel Atlas:

In 1961 Mbangawi gained independence, with the dominant Gawan tribe’s chieftain Samuel N’Dingi becoming the king, taking the Emperor’s Compound (formerly the Kaiser’s Compound) as his new palace. Though the N’Dingi family ruled as fairly and equitably as they could, and largely with popular support, the country suffered from tribal rivalries, and corrupt government officials working secretly in conjunction with foreign companies to exploit Mbangawi’s natural resources purely for their own gain. Returning from overseas upon his father’s death, Joshua N’Dingi took immediate steps to end these problems; against advice from his own tribe’s elders, he took on the rival J’Dare tribe’s “witch woman” Kura as his confidante and advisor, using her powers to root out governmental corruption. She later proved her loyalty when he was kidnapped by the Technet and transformed by reality-warper Jamie Braddock, rescuing him and returning him to his normal form. Though his people consider him more a god than a king, uncomfortable with this idolatry, Joshua prefers to use the title of president; he continues to protect his country, while working alongside like-minded African leaders, such as Wakanda’s King T’Challa, for the advancement of the continent as a whole.

limerick

08-31-2009, 04:49 PM

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.14.GIF

Excalibur # 14...................November 1989

GONNA BE A DAY LATE WITH THIS ONE----Excalibur # 14---Tomorrow

limerick

09-01-2009, 05:29 PM

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.14.GIF

Excalibur # 14...................November 1989

"Too Many Heroes"----The Cross-Time Caper Part 3

Claremont/Alan Davis/Neary

London,England,An Alternate Earth:Prince William and Princess Katherine announce their engagement to the public and present themselves to an adoring crowd from a Palace balcony.....They are accompanied by Excalibur who are mostly enjoying the experience except Rachel,who finds her clothes for the occasion a little straight-laced.......Everyone moves back into the Palace Ballroom to jon the celebratory party taking place.....Kitty becomes jealous when Alistaire asks Rachel to dance with him.....As does Brian when Meggan dances with Kurt,being so caught up in the moment that she assumes an appearance similar to the former X-man.....

Kitty phases her way thrugh the Palace back to Excalibur's newly refurbished train......She is a little upset that Alistaire prefers Rachel to her......In the train she finds Widget chewing his way through the train's new interior finishings.......She tries to feed him some junk from the rubbish bin instead.....Rachel suddenly storms from the Palace furious at the thoughts of a party guest following her out.....this reality's Nigel Frobisher......He asks her what's wrong and if it's something he hassaid but she is so disgusted by his thoughts she telekinetically 'tars and feathers' him.....The rest of Excalibur follow her out and Brian scolds her for being so rude to a fellow guest......But when she relays Nigel's thoughts to Captain Britain he has to be held back from giving him a beating!......In the confusion,Rachel's Phoenix-force energy signature catches Widget and energises him......Before they know it Excalibur are once again thrown through the multi-verse.

The Excalibur Lighthouse,Another Alternate Earth:Excalibur disembark from the train and on seeing the lighthouse they believe they are home......Kitty suddenly notices an approaching tidal wave......It comes on them in seconds barely giving them time to act.....Rachel is drained from powering Widget for the train jump......She has enough energy to cocoon the reast of Excalibur in protective casings and to dull the impact of the tidal wave telekinetically,to some extent.......As the huge wave strikes the clifftop fully with an awesome force,she finally cocoons herself as well.....

Later,following a return to normal water levels,Excalibur find themselves hatcthing out of their cocoons only to find Rachel missing.....Rick Jones,the honorary Avenger,suddenly appears telling them The Avengers have Rachel's cocoon......He agrees to take them after her in his Avengers Quinjet......Leaving Lockheed behind to look after Widget and the train,they take off for New York.....On board Kitty and Meggan trim their party dressesto a more suitable length......Over the Atlantic Ocean the quinjet stumbles upon a huge form,which they just manage to avoid......It turns out to be Hank Pym,the Avenger......He has increased in size so much he is nearly reaching out of the athmosphere......Each breathe he takes and every step he moves causes huge natural disasters on the surface of the planet and he feels it would be better if he were dead.....He may get his wish when theSub-Mariner shoots him with a huge ray-gun to try and kill him for destroying Atlantis......He collapses into the Ocean,causing world-wide tidal waves.......With the force of his imact Excalibur are carried to New York.......They find N.Y. have been devestated by fighting between Earth's superheroes and villains......They encounter this reality's Captain America who tells them New York is caught up in 'Acts of Vengence'-----He encourages them to take on villains they don't usually fight to give them an edge.....Excalibur realise after meeting Captain America that they are not back in their own reality(616)......They decide to spilt up and look at the Avenger's mansion,Damage Co-ordination's Base and the Fantastic Four headquarters to see if they can find Phoenix there.....

Alistaire and Kitty head for the F.F.'s place but they find themselves bottom of a huge queue to see Reed Richards.....They get in line!......Meanwhile at The Avengers mansion Captain Britain and Rick Jones find the Avengers in full battle carrying out their part in 'Acts of Vengence'.......Iron Man tells them that Reed Richards has Phoenix......Before he leaves C.B. gets into a brawl with The Hulk and floors him with a punch......Rick comforts the baby-like Hulk and C.B. takes his leave heading for Freedom Plaza.......At the Damage Co-ordination headquarters,Meggan and Kurt are fruitless in their search for Rachel but they are offered a make-over!!.....By Baron Blood!!!.....Kurt decides to stick with his traditional costume but Meggan goes for a hot new Green and black number.......After encountering an array of Wolverines and Chris Claremont and John Byrne,they decide they've had enough and leave to join the others....

Freedom Plaza:Kurt ,Meggan and C.B. join up with Kitty and Alistaire in the queue to see Richards.......Meanwhile upstairs,Richards examines the Phoenix cocoon,speculating as to exatly what it is......Suddenly,with an awesome burst of energy which totals the top of the building,Phoenix bursts free from the cocoon containing her.......She discovers this reality's F.F. are much different from her own......Sue Storm has The Thing's powers and appearance.....Johhny can become invisible.......Reed is The Human Torch......and Ben Grimm is Mr Fantastic!......As Rachel asks them for help ,explaining she is not their enemy,they are suddenly confronted by the awesome sight of Galactus who tells them he is about to destroy this planet......Excalibur and the rest of Earth's heroes arrive to try and battle him......Excalibur heed Galactus' warning to leave while they can.......Phoenix transports them all at top speed to their train at the Excalibur lighthouse.....As the world begins to disintegrate around them,Rachel activates Widget with her power and they jump realities just before they are all wiped out.......Later,Galactus surveys the barren wasteland left after he has drained all energy from the planet......He tells the watching Impossible Man that the planet is as it was meant to be before he interfered......And warns him not to interfere with it again......But almost instantly after Galactus returns to space in his craft,The Impossible Man regenerates the Earth and finds himself again surrounded by battling superheroes......He chuckles to himself in glee!!

FIN

limerick

09-02-2009, 01:02 PM

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/1012/83225-4052-31866-2-excalibur_large.jpg

The full cover in miniature----sorry,unable to increase size due to my tiny brain!

jarvSthe1

09-02-2009, 01:25 PM

limerick

09-02-2009, 03:28 PM

This issue was terrible IMO. I know it was supposed to be meant as a silly story but I'm not particular to slapstick comedy. The Cross-Time Caper is a classic though. I wish Davis would come back and do an Excalibur mini.
Hi,jarvSthe1....thanks for posting.....I think you're probably right about this issue.....the story does suck a little.....And Excalibur seem to be bit players in a Claremont fantasy.....But Davis really rocks!(as always)

limerick

09-02-2009, 03:59 PM

Thoughts on Excalibur # 14:

--As I was just saying this is a strange issue with a very weak narrative but with some interesting fine details.....The story never really gets going because of it being limited to one issue.....It was interesting finally getting to see Galactus totalling Earth----Davis' vision of destruction is awesome.....I wasn't expecting him to be that good at depicting such a violent scene....His work(with Neary's finishes)is just a joy to behold.....The opening page alone has more detail than some entire comics have.

--What's good about Excalibur # 14
------That cover!You think it's Excalibur versus the Avengers until you turn to the back and see tubby Quicksilver and 'The Silver Surfer'(Radical Dude!).....And then you realise this is going to be a little bit different!
------Brian's face when getting back-slapped by the Ogre(pg. 3)...classic!
------Cap Britain's reaction to Rachel 'thoughts' from mucky Nigel Frobisher's mind....I love C.B.!
------Lockheed's face on the last panel of page 9....It takes a lot to rattle that little guy so you know it's gonna be bad.
------Interesting to see Rachel 'cocooning' the rest of Excalibur(and herself).....I'm assuming she is using the same power that cocooned Jean Grey at the bottom of the Hudson.....It's just kinda cool to see her using the Phoenix abilities....She really has THE POWER!
------Meggan's legs on page 14---HUBBA HUBBA!
------The fact that Henry Pym takes a few seconds to process the fact that he's been hit by a ray gun because of his sheer size...nice touch.
------'Acts of Vengence'??---Did this story give the Marvel editorial dept. an idea??
------Cry-baby Hulk!(page 21)
------Seeing Adam Warlock and Captain Marvel alive(pg. 22).....I used to love Captain Marvel.....
------Meggan's new costume....poor Kurt....it's not gonna happen,is it?
------Claremont versus Byrne(page 24)....scripted by Claremont!(and he doesn't have himself winning!)
------Sue'The Thing'Storm.....The shades are a good look!Even her Longshot mullet is kinda cool.
------Eight-limbed Spiderman on the last page....How a Spiderman should look,I suppose!

--What's bad about Excalibur # 14
------Claremont pushes the envelope a little too much and the humour detracts from the story a little.....I hate it when a book allows it's main characters to become side characters who do not really influence events in the plot......Basically,if Excalibur weren't around nothing much would have changed
------Rick Jones...Not a fan.
------The Impossible Man making an unnecessary appearance at the end.....Chris,you're allowed blow up an alternate Earth....it won't stunt our emotional growth!
------Davis running out of room to give his Earth destruction the space it deserves.....Art that good needs BIG panels!

kk1

09-03-2009, 06:57 PM

Wow I really really liked this issue, I didn't think there was anything wrong with it. Great Fun seeing Chris and Alan lampoon the Marvel Universe (and themselves), I didn't mind Excalibur being in the background, There are so many characters for Alan to p0lay with focusing on Excalibur would have limited his options. Even though they're slightly askew it was great to see that Mr Davis would have been great on any book he would have been put on.

limerick

09-04-2009, 11:28 AM

Hi,kk1,....Don't get me wrong!......There are many great things about this issue.....Davis' talents are shown to the full and the lighter nature of the story allows him to indulge himself.....This issue is almost like a Marvel 'Where's Wally',where you spend time looking at the finer details to spot your favourite Marvel heroes.....(Master of Kung Fu,for one!).......Each rendition of Marvel staples like the Avengers and The Fantasic Four are better then the next and I found myself asking is there nothing Davis cannot do.....(His Galactus rivals any version I've seen before)

So like I was saying the art's awesome......But Claremont's script?.....Try to imagine any other artist having drawn this......Everything is resting on Davis' pencils.....What I found particularly weak storywise was the limp Phoenix sequence where she's 'too weak' to carry them away after the Dimensional jaunt 'drained pretty much all her strength'.......Firstly,she accidentally powered Widget by her energy signature coming into contact with him.....The gives him sufficient power for him to make the jaunt....not her.....Secondly,all she needed to do was lift them a couple of hundred feet into the air to avoid the tidal wave.....Surely that would use less energy than creating the cocoons she does.....I know these are minor points but it's just careless by Claremont.....To be honest,Excalibur was his strongest book at this time,IMO,but I feel this period in general was not his most productive era.....I feel the success of Excalibur as a book is down to Davis as was proved to an extent by the 2 recent Davis-less issues----a pale reflection of his work.

limerick

09-06-2009, 05:00 PM

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.15.GIF

Excalibur # 15...................Mid November 1989

"Technet:Impossible Missions!"----The Cross-Time Caper Part 4

Claremont/Alan Davis/Neary

The Old Pier,Brighton,England:The Technet meet with Nigel Frobisher to discuss the mission he has for them......They are shown a briefing holograph which depicts their mission---to rescue James Braddock from the captivity of Joshua N'Dingi..a.k.a. Doc Croc......The prison he is being held in looks to hold little resistance to their combined abilities.....Some of the Technet are bored of Earth and want to return to the stars but Gatecrasher forcibly reminds them that they are forbidden to leave Earth until they capture Phoenix.....Leaving Bodybag,China Doll and Numbers behind with Nigel the others teleport to Africa to release Captain Britain's brother.......Numbers wonders what Excalibur are up to.....

A Wild West-Type Alternate Earth:Captain Britain steers a stage-coach at full tilt,trying to escape a uniquely English bunch of Native American Indians chasing him on horseback......Phoenix is riding shotgun and lets a few shots away to try and keep the pursuers at bay.....They reach their train in the middle of the desert-like conditions and the rest of Excalibur gets out of the stage-coach ,all dressed or changed in appearance in some way as to make us think they have been through a lot in this reality......They manage to get on board the train and activate Widget's trans-dimensional jump while Lockheed holds the Indians back with his flame-throwing......They disappear in a flash of light leaving their chasers puzzled.

Doc Croc's compound,Mbangawai,Africa:The Technet easily gain access to the compound and wit a combination of their powers they quickly overcome the compound's guards.......Moving further inside the complex they find Jamie Braddock......tethered to two pillars and seemingly being tortured by Doc Croc and his Witch-woman......Doc Croc warns them to leave or else.....But Joyboy gratns the Witch-woman her wish----making her one with the Cosmos and driving her insane!.......But Doc Croc strikes back spraying Gatecrasher with a mind-altering gas......

Another Alternate Earth:In this reality Alistaire and Alysande Stuart are Dr. Frankenstein-like characters and they are about to mind-swap Alistaire(the real one) and Rachel.....But the rest of Excalibur come to their rescue,including a Vampire Kitty......Job done,Nightcrawler asks the Frankenstein-like Alistaire to change Captain Britain back from being a duck!

Africa:Through a very real dream sequence brought about by the halluninogenic gas,Gatecrasher sees James Braddocks real personailty----A criminal who has robbed this country of it's natural resouces resulting in famine and death to it's people......Gatecrasher breaks out of the illusion and grabs Doc Croc......He tells her what she saw was true and that she should draw on the courage within her to do the right thing---Not let James Braddock free......Suddenly,Gatecrasher's teleporter,Lizard,starts foaming at the mouth on her shoulder.....

Earth:Excalibur's train lands in a random field somewhere......A policecar arrives and after some questions from Excalibur are answered it seems they may at last have found 'their' Earth......Kitty goes inside to wake the sleeping Rachel to try and get her to confirm where they are......But a strange energy transfer is taking place between Rachel and Meggan while they sleep on opposite sides of the train......They wake to find their clothes have been swapped and Kitty thinks Meggan spoke with Rachel's voice.....Rachel says she doesn't know what happened but she uses her powers to reverse their clothes swap......When the policemen recognise Rachel as Phoenix ,Kurt is sure they have found their reality.....But ,again,Rachel accidentally triggers Widget with her energy signature and the train moves dimensionally before they can do anything about it...

The Old Pier,Brighton:James Braddock is mentally unstable but possesses awesome power.....He sees the universe as filaments of energy.....Filaments he can manipulate like string to effect the real world........James,Doc Croc and The Technet are suddenly transported to The Technet's headquarters by Jame's manipulation of Lizard.....James is babbling nonesense but starts to leave......Gatecrasher orders The Technet to capture him but Bodybag,Thug and Ferro2 are easily defeated by James as he manipulates their energy patterns,knocking them for six......Next Scatterbrain tries to scatter his conciousness across the universe but itbackfires and she gets fries while he actually becomes more rational......Now aware of what he's doing James quickly defeats most of the rest of The Technet by turning their own powers back on them.....Now only Doc Croc,Numbers,Gatecrasher and Lizard remain.......Numbers is next to fall and then Doc Croc charges at James trying to take him down......A huge energy matrix flashes over the pier as they clash!

Yet Another Alternate Earth:In a post-apocalyptic Earth(destroyed by Dr Doom!) Excalibur encounter the alternate Captain Britain in the devestated ruins of London......But in this reality Meggan has assumed the mantle of C.B. after Brian was killed......They offer for her to join them but she says she'll remain until the Earth eventually recovers from the Anti-matter destruction.....

The Pier,Brighton:Nigel Frobisher collects James outside the pier,offering him a share in world domination.....Later,The Technet recover from their ordeal......Thug finds a baby crocidle in his bath.....All that remains of Doc Croc after his run-in with James Braddock!

A Final Alternate Earth(?):In a desert scape Excalibur's train lies crashed and broken.....Brian and Meggan lie motionless beside a seemingly damaged Widget...??

FIN

kk1

09-06-2009, 05:20 PM

Hi,kk1,.I know these are minor points but it's just careless by Claremont.....To be honest,Excalibur was his strongest book at this time,IMO,but I feel this period in general was not his most productive era.....I feel the success of Excalibur as a book is down to Davis as was proved to an extent by the 2 recent Davis-less issues----a pale reflection of his work.

As I reflect back on the X-books it seems pretty obvious the majority of the credit heaped on Claremont should go instead to the artists he worked with, Excalibur being one of the most obvious examples. Would they have been as good with other writers...no.. I'll give Claremont his due his input did add to the story, but w/o Cockrum, Byrne, Smith, Romita Jr, Adams, Davis, Silvestri and Lee collaborating things just wouldn't have been the same.

limerick

09-07-2009, 02:32 PM

As I reflect back on the X-books it seems pretty obvious the majority of the credit heaped on Claremont should go instead to the artists he worked with, Excalibur being one of the most obvious examples. Would they have been as good with other writers...no.. I'll give Claremont his due his input did add to the story, but w/o Cockrum, Byrne, Smith, Romita Jr, Adams, Davis, Silvestri and Lee collaborating things just wouldn't have been the same.
I am constantly fascinated by how the writer/artist relationship works.......At times I agree completely with your above statement and I believe there are several examples in Claremont's X-book career which prove it.....eg....Byrne's Alpha Flight issues seeming more like X-men circa 120-130 than any Uncanny issues after he left......The distinct difference between Cockrum/Claremont and Byrne Claremont in style of storytelling...and then the immediate return of Cockrum/Claremont's old stlye when they returned after Byrne's departure.....Seriously,can you imagine that Caliban(circa # 148) story turning out like that under Byrne---no way!

But I think it's important that Claremont gets credit for his fantastic unquestionable talent at that time.....For me his peak came(his peak,not necessarily Uncanny's peak)circa Uncanny # 190-200 and the concurrent run in New Mutants(The Muir Island story/David Haller debuts).....The Asgard saga came around the same time.......But perhaps his artist got more input as the number of titles he was working on increased.....For example Silvestri's run on Uncanny is packed with dream sequences and I don't remember one during Byrne's run.....So is that the artists doing or has Claremont's style changed.....I'll be watching for these dream sequences when Lee takes over.....

P.S. I've probably posted this in the wrong thread!

limerick

09-14-2009, 04:57 PM

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.16.GIF

Excalibur # 16...................

Back on Wednesday 16th with 'Thoughts on' # 15 and the Summary of # 16......All posts very welcome!......(P.S. Rachel doesn't look quite as fit there as you would expect!)

creaky

09-14-2009, 05:04 PM

Wooo-hooo!

Imraith Nimphais

09-14-2009, 05:05 PM

limerick

09-14-2009, 05:06 PM

Wooo-hooo!
Ha,ha,Creaky.....is that cover your ultimate Kurt?!

limerick

09-14-2009, 05:09 PM

Another "Star Wars" homage cover...do you think, Limerick? (btw, space-pirate Kurt is quite delicious!)
I absolutely loveLOVELURRVE this particular arc of the CTC...I'm definitely going to re-read my collection.
Yeah,you're right!......it's got the basic elements....male hero holding a weapon up in the air......female sidekick/lover at a slightly lower level......Standing on a mountain/hill.......Evil do-er/Enemy visible in the background or foreground.....In fact I can think of several other X-books with this basic cover layout.....We may have stumbled across something here!!!

creaky

09-14-2009, 05:10 PM

Ha,ha,Creaky.....is that cover your ultimate Kurt?!

Physically, quite possibly. He is such a dork, though. Which is awesome.<3

limerick

09-14-2009, 05:13 PM

It is a great cover.....G'night creaky and Imraith.....it's getting late.:smile:

Imraith Nimphais

09-14-2009, 05:31 PM

night-night, Limerick...looking forward to your summary tomorrow...:-))

kk1

09-14-2009, 07:06 PM

Another "Star Wars" homage cover...do you think, Limerick? (btw, space-pirate Kurt is quite delicious!)
I absolutely loveLOVELURRVE this particular arc of the CTC...I'm definitely going to re-read my collection.

It's not Star Wars the whole issue is an homage to John Carter of Mars some really good for the time (and much ripped off by Lucas and many others) science fiction written by the same guy who wrote Tarzan. (btw take note of the coloring in this issue, it's been bad for a while but reaches a pinnacle in this issue a miscolored finger even looks like Kurt's schlong in one panel)

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/7601/john%20carter%20of%20mars.jpg

limerick

09-15-2009, 04:40 PM

It's not Star Wars the whole issue is an homage to John Carter of Mars some really good for the time (and much ripped off by Lucas and many others) science fiction written by the same guy who wrote Tarzan. (btw take note of the coloring in this issue, it's been bad for a while but reaches a pinnacle in this issue a miscolored finger even looks like Kurt's schlong in one panel)

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/7601/john%20carter%20of%20mars.jpg
Wow,that is an almost direct copy!.....But the basic layout of that pose seems to be a popular Science Fiction/Fantasy standard

kk1

09-15-2009, 04:51 PM

Wow,that is an almost direct copy!.....But the basic layout of that pose seems to be a popular Science Fiction/Fantasy standard

Frazetta's painting is from 1970, it may be inspired by something else but everything since is from that.

Imraith Nimphais

09-15-2009, 05:12 PM

Wow....just, wow.

limerick

09-15-2009, 05:35 PM

Frazetta's painting is from 1970, it may be inspired by something else but everything since is from that.

Thanks for that kk1,it is an obvious tribute to that painting----there's too many similarities for it to be a coincidence......Was that painted for anything in particular(book cover etc)or was it just a piece of art?

Wow....just, wow.

Hi,Imraith....I'll be summarising this tomorrow......X-Factor # 45 tonight!

DungeonmasterJim

09-15-2009, 06:07 PM

I didn't really buy into Rachel ditching the team to find herself in this issue. Seemed really selfish of her. Trying to remember if this issue intro'd the fatty blue slaver cliche guys. I never understood the fear of such characters. Just run up a flight of stairs and such guys are reduced to sweaty pools of uselessness if they can even follow.

DM Jim

limerick

09-16-2009, 04:24 PM

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.15.GIF

Thoughts on Excalibur # 15:

--A brilliant cover for this issue......Poor Gatecrasher----She's no catwalk queen ,although I kinda get the feeling she thinks she might be God's Gift!

--Excalibur take a bit of a back seat this issue as the Technet dominate the issue a little bit.....As usual they are very entertaining......But they meet their match in Jamie Braddock who seems really powerful,scarily so......Now that his encounter with Scatterbrain has regained his power of thought a little bit,Excalibur will have their work cut out for them when they eventually run into him......I thought his power was well realised by Davis and Claremont when theydepict the Universe as he sees it----A string of energy filaments which he can manipulate.

--The Excalibur vignettes are awesome and in each case you're left wondering what happened to them in that reality......We're presented with a few quick snapshots which just whets the appetite for more......I particularly enjoyed the second last Earth they visited where Meggan had assumed the Captain Britain role----that was an interesting twist.......And the issue finishes on a dramatic 'Are they or Aren't they??!!'(Methinks they probably aren't!)

--One thing I noticed was that Captain Britain accquires various versions of his costume in the various Earths he visits......How does he manage to get his original costume back by the time he gets to the Post-Doctor Doom-Anti-Matter detonation Earth??.....I t did appear in most cases that he left the alternate 'Earth' in a hurry,most probably without the costume he arrived with.

--Phoenix triggers Widget again by accident......And just when they appear to have got back to their reality!......Very careless!(Or Claremont running out of ideas--joking!)

--Also Meggan and Rachel have that weird power overlap/swap again.....It'll be interesting to see where that's going.

--On page 12,is it just me or does the vampiric version of Kitty look just like Meggan's Goblin Princess from INFERNO??

--A nice issue which is very broad in it's scope.....As always great Davis art and the Frobisher/Jamie/Braddock/Technet story moves things along nicely in 616 in Excaliburs abscence

limerick

09-16-2009, 04:39 PM

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.16.GIF

Excalibur # 16...................December 1989

"Warlord"----The Cross-Time Caper Part 5

Claremont/Alan Davis/Neary

An Alien Planet:In a bizarre,alien filled bar,a myterious,hooded stranger tells a story to an interested audience.

The stranger describes a Royal Sky Barge being attacked by a Pirate vessal in the skies of a two-mooned Planet......Princess Anjule is protected from the Nightcrawler-like Blue-skinned pirates but they are fighting a losing battle......Princess Anjulie is about to be run through by a female pirate when Nightcrawler suddenly materilises from nowhere and falls on the pirate knocking her out.....Seeing the situation,he grabs three swords(two hands and a tail!)and overcomes the odds,defeating the rest of the invading pirates......The female pirate reovers to take him on but he easily disarms her......But then he is struck from behind,a blow that knocks him out-----Princess Anjulie reveals her true colours by striking out at her saviour who has helped her by capturing her greatest enemy...

Elsewhere:Kitty and Rachel wake to find themselves strung up in a smokehouse along some carcuses......Using her ninja training Kitty manages to escape her binds and is freeing Rachel when their captor walks in-----A four-armed red alien.....And he's not friendly......The Excalibur members seem to have lost the use of their powers but Kitty uses her sparring training from her X-men days to smash their captor through the smokehouse wall.......From the frying pan into the fire,they find themselves surrounded by an army of weird-looking soldiers......Kitty manages to defeat the thing from the smokehouse but then the two Excalibur girls find themselves surrounded by blades weilding soldiers.....However,the soldiers didn't like their cook and are impressed by Kitty's fighting skills......They are inducted into the Dracic army as Warriors......They then set off with their new 'comrades' to look for the rest of Excalibur.

Elsewhere:Nightcrawler wakes in a bathing pool in a large ornate room.......He cannot remember exactly what happened him......He is joined in the pool by a scantily clad Princess Anjulie,who removes what little clothes she was wearing(result for Kurt!).....She tells him that since he saved her life she is his to do with as he pleases......Before he can react,she grabs him and kisses him passionately.......Later as they recover from their....er.....swim,a servant spills some wine on her hand......Nightcawler notices that the servant is terrified by what happenedand that she gives him a deadly look......But he is distracted as she moves in for ......ahem......round 2.

Elsewhere on the Planet's Surface:Alistaire Stuart flees some mercenaries chasing him but is eventually caught......He death but is told he is being spared because Princess Anjuile wants any offworlders returned to her safely.......But suddenly Kitty,Rachel and the leader of The Dracic(dragon)clan arrive to save the day.....sort off......They are outnumbered and end up fleeing the princess's thugs......But the mercenaries suddenly turn tail and run away,leaving Alistaire behind.......Delighted(but unsure why)at their reprieve,they exchange greetings until they are snatched from above by an octopus-like creature dangling from a floating citadel above them.....The citadel of Princess Anjulie!

Inside the Princesses quarters within the citadel,Kurt wakes on the bed,a little worse for wear.......He sees thePrincess talking to a hideous looking humanoid.......They leave and Kurt starts to follow them,keeping out of sight......He follows them to a dank,foul dungeon where he is shocked to see the servant who spilled the wine on Anjulie earlier......He has been tortured and burnt close to death and suffers horribly as he clings to life in a cage......Shocked,Nightcrawler recoils only to be grabbed from behind by the female pirate,Kymri,thathe fought earlier......She is also in a cell but is dressed in ceramonial clothing.......He manages to free himself from her grip.....She is hostile to him as she believes him to be in league with Anjulie......She tells him she's to be sacrifaced and that this citadel originally was her fathers but Anjulie captured it by seducing him......Soon after all magic was drained out of world as if it's lifeforce was being drained......Kymri blames Anjulie for this.....Realising his mistake ,Nightcrawler frees her and they go looking for Kymri's crew......Defeating a couple of Anjulie's soldiers,they accquire weapons.......Deeper in the dungeon they find skeletal remains-----Kymri's crew......Anjuile is truely evil!!

Hearing chanting nearby ,they follow the voice to a great chamber where Anjulie stands on a platform,arms raised worshipping a huge transparent,tentacled creature who eminates pure evil......He is holding Kitty,Alistaire,Rachel and the Dragon Leader in it's tentacles.......Through it's transparent form the contents of its last meal can be seen----Captain Britain,Lockheed,Meggan and the full size dragon from the train.....The monster boasts of being energised by it's last feed!.....Nightcrawler dashes to save his team-mates using his sword to try and cut them free from the tentacles holding them.......Anjulie shouts angily at him for betraying her.......But she issilenced when Kymri lands a big punch on her......The hideously deformed being accompanying Anjulie tries to protect her but Kymri kills him,tearing the garments covering his face in the process----Her father is revealed underneath,much to her shock----She has killed him!......Behind her Anjulie comes at her with a knife but she is stopped...permanantly...by Kitty wielding a large sword......Anjulie falls off the platform ,presumably to her death......The huge creature grabs Kitty and Kymri,recognising the power to be drained in Kitty(her mutant power).......Kurt and Rachel rush to help them but they have no powers on this planet and are limited what they can do.....As the creatures tentacles reach for Kurt he notices that it is withdrawing from Rachel......Kurt decides that Rachel's raw power may be too much for the creature and ,much to Rachel's surprise,he flings her into the creatures gaping mouth.......He hopes this will save them all but if he's wrong they may all be doomed.........From space a huge flash of the Phoenix energy signature shows something major is happening.....But what exactly?!

In the alien bar,the hooded stranger says there'll be a break in the story before they finish it.

FIN

kk1

09-16-2009, 06:08 PM

Thanks for that kk1,it is an obvious tribute to that painting----there's too many similarities for it to be a coincidence......Was that painted for anything in particular(book cover etc)or was it just a piece of art?

I believe it's Princess of Mars (which was written in 1917) the first novel in the series, it's worth a quick read (pretty sure you can find it on the internet), it's a sci-fi classic. And as I said everything in this issue is from the John Carter books, from the design of the characters to the ships. I'm pretty sure one of the Pixar guys is directing a live action version right now for Disney, which is fubnny because the skimpy outfits the gals wear in this issue aren't an accident, in the novels everyone's pretty much naked except for harnesses to hold their weapons. Davis did a great interpretation while still keeping it safe for the comics code :)

limerick

09-16-2009, 06:11 PM

I believe it's Princess of Mars (which was written in 1917) the first novel in the series, it's worth a quick read (pretty sure you can find it on the internet), it's a sci-fi classic. And as I said everything in this issue is from the John Carter books, from the design of the characters to the ships. I'm pretty sure one of the Pixar guys is directing a live action version right now for Disney, which is fubnny because the skimpy outfits the gals wear in this issue aren't an accident, in the novels everyone's pretty much naked except for harnesses to hold their weapons. Davis did a great interpretation while still keeping it safe for the comics code :)
Just about!!....Those outfits are pretty racey!...(Not that I'm complaining!)

creaky

09-17-2009, 12:26 AM

Kurt gets laid, y'all!

limerick

09-17-2009, 12:26 PM

Kurt gets laid, y'all!
And then some!!......She may be a planet wrecking bitch ,but she puts out!(joking!)

limerick

09-18-2009, 05:57 PM

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.15.GIF

Thoughts on Excalibur # 15:

I've just noticed Meggan's a red-head in the top left-hand corner??!!

limerick

09-19-2009, 08:21 AM

Thoughts on Excalibur # 16:

--kk1's information on the cover and content of this book does show this book in a new light.....Interestingly,this book is co-plotted by Davis so I think we can assume that he came up with the tribute idea.....It does take away from the creative nub of the story as by what kk1 says much of the story is lifted....It may explain why Excalibur have their powers blocked in this reality--Introducing their powers would change the story in a big way.

--Davis once again produces the goods.....His ability to depict subtle emotions is unreal---Check out the menace on the face of Princess Anjulie as she cold stares her manservant,Pica......You just know that guys in trouble and that Kurt's in danger around her.

--All the women look great in this issue with Anjulie and Kymri,in particular,looking very hot.....But Rachel looks off.....It's almost like she looks better with more clothes on!

--Alistair is really turning into a bit of a liability for Excalibur on The Cross Time Caper.....He seems to constantly be the one in a spot of bother....i.e. kidnapped..etc....Maybe he'll get his chance to shine soon.

--Another quite issue for Captain Britain...I miss him!

--A definitive sex scene where Nightcrawler gets laid.....I can't recall too many of these where it's as obviously conveyed that they're 'at it'.....But Nightcrawler does seem like an obvious candidate for this type of scene......The guy's got style!

--For some reason the opening sky-barge scene reminds me a lot of sequences from Nightcrawler's mini-series.....I can't remember the exact details but Ithink he rescued a princess from pirates attacking her sky-ship.....And again,he uses his three sword technique(one in each hand and one in the tail)

limerick

09-20-2009, 03:20 PM

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.17.GIF

Excalibur # 17...................Mid December 1989

"From The Crucible--A Captain?"----The Cross-Time Caper Part 6

Claremont/Alan Davis/Neary

An Alternate Earth:In a bizarre,alien filled bar,a myterious,hooded stranger continues their story to an interested audience.......The stranger picks up from where they left off.

Princess Anjulie's Citadel:Following the apparent destruction of the planet and everything on it at the end of the last issue,Phoenix,saves the day restoring everything somehow.

Later,Excalibur celebrates with their new found friends......But Rachel remains away from the rest with a strange look on her face.....Her PSI powers have not yet returned,something she reveals to Meggan when she asks why she's so quiet.....Rachel says she feels something isn't quite right and there's unfinished business......She takes a small transport and departs telling Meggan that she's got something to do.....Meggan reminds her that they're trapped here without her...

Elsewhere:Weeks later,Rachel has tracked down this Earth's version of Jean Grey and has spent time working with her minus her powers......As they get ready for a night out,Jean tells Rachel she's too used to her powers and she has to learn to get by without needing them.....As they arrive in the nearby town for their night out,they find the town devestated by slave traders who have set the whole place on fire......They try to get away but their transport is hit and Rachel finds herself being attacked by Slaver-hounds similar to the hounds she herself served as in her native 'Earth'.......She screams as Jean Grey is slain by one of them......She passes out....

Later,she wakes in the quarters of the Slaver Captain and faces him and two of his Hounds......They want him to let her join them as a Hound but he has other plans for her.....Outside the Captain's crew listen behind the door cursing their Captain for having all the luck......The door suddenly bursts off it's hinges as the Captain and the two Hounds are propelled unconcious through it......A firece Rachel follows ,weilding two swords ans asking:"Who's next?!".

The Slaver Stronghold:At the Slaver Base,their High Council discusses recent events.......Excalibur has arranged a competetition to decide who will serve as the peoples Hero,to defend the weak and stand up for right.......One of the members of The Council,Nigel Frobisher(!), has infiltrated an assassin into the contestants......Unknown to the Council,they are watched by a hooded figure,Rachel!!

Excalibur's Train,A Desert Landscape:Excalibur have decided to hold the great contest at their train......They watch ashordes of contestants arrive to compete......Captain Britain is a bit embarrassed by it all as they have put very little planning into the exact format of the competition.......The competition begins with a test of strength.......This 'Earth's' Lockheed throws a rock a huge distant and it heads directly for a masked,female warrior who splits the giant rock with her sword......The crowd are impressed by this mysterious entrant but when asked why she hides her idenity,she tells them it is so she can remain private........All days the contestants are tested on speed,strength,martial arts and intellectual challenges......Excalibur watches the challenges with varying levels of interest(and boredom!).......As the day wears on three contestants come to the fore.....Kymri,Lockheed and the masked stranger(whom Kitty has recognised as Rachel but has held her silence...for the moment.).

Later that night most of the contestants drink and make merriment as a real party athmosphere develops around a campfire.......Meanwhile Kitty tries to figure out exactly what makes Widget tick,Alistaire gets 'busy' with Kymri and Meggan and C.B. enjoy the party......Alistaire and Kymri are desturbed by a strange noise from Excalibur's train......When they investigate they find Kurt and Kitty,seemingly dead.......As everyone investigates they find Brian,similarly struck down,being tended to by Meggan......Meanwhile the masked Conteastant(Rachel) battles another four-armed contestant who claims she is the assassin.......Lockheed(The Alternate Earth one!)rushes in with a sword and relieves the four-armed combatant,going one-on-one with Rachel.......She denies being the assassin and Alstaire suddenly recognises her and calls out that she's telling the truth......But the four-armed swordsman reveals he is actually the assassin by stabbing Alistaire.......He then grabs Meggan and holds a sword to her throat,telling the others that they must drop their weapons ,which they do.......He trains a gun on them but they make a move,knowing he'll kill them anyway......While Kymri and Lockheed lunge at him ,only to be gunned down by the assassin,Rachel gets the drop on him throwing a sword through his head,killing him.......Rachel is victorious but the victory is empty after the loss of her team-mates......Meggan says there is a way to save them......She has the World's 'fire' within her---All she needs is the power of Phoenix to spark it and set it alight,saving both their friends and the planet itself......Rachel is a little reluctant as it means re-accepting the power of Phoenix,which is daunting........

The Alien Bar:The story-teller says that's the end of the tale.......When her audience asks how the story finishes,the stranger throws off her cloak to reveal....Kitty!!......She lives,as do the rest of Excalibur saved by Rachel and Meggan......She reveals that Lockheed and Kymri were also restored and declared the World's Champions.....And then they all partied..again!

Kitty and Nightcrawler leave the bar and join the rest of Excalibur at the latest resting place for their train......Once on-board,Phoeinx powers up Widget and they start to transport......As Kitty looks out the window ,she shouts at Widget to stop---Professor Xavier and The Starjammers are outside!!.....But it's too late---They're already gone...

FIN

limerick

09-21-2009, 04:38 PM

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/264245-56496-kymri_large.jpg

Kymri-----Although she looks made for Nightcrawler,she does the nasty with Alistaire instead.....Some people have no taste!

limerick

09-21-2009, 04:42 PM

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/264241-112926-lockheed_large.jpg

This Alternate Earth's Lockheed---Not to be trifled with!

limerick

09-21-2009, 04:48 PM

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/38767/924698-1.8_anjulie___ready_for_more_large.jpg

Princess Anjulie prepares for another 'bout' with Kurt----Lucky Bastard!!

Daniel Mengsk

09-21-2009, 04:58 PM

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/38767/924698-1.8_anjulie___ready_for_more_large.jpg

Princess Anjulie prepares for another 'bout' with Kurt----Lucky Bastard!!

:eek: MY GOD! Me wanna have now!

limerick

09-21-2009, 05:02 PM

God,she's hot,hot,hot!

limerick

09-21-2009, 05:03 PM

But.....very,very nasty!

Daniel Mengsk

09-21-2009, 05:05 PM

God,she's hot,hot,hot!

But not as hot as Gatecrasher, right? Right?

limerick

09-21-2009, 05:06 PM

LOLOLOL!....Whatever rocks your boat,Giles!!!

Daniel Mengsk

09-21-2009, 05:12 PM

Yum!

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/thumb/8/87/Excalibur_Vol_1_9_Back_Cover.jpg/200px-Excalibur_Vol_1_9_Back_Cover.jpg

Beats phat Karma every time.

limerick

09-21-2009, 05:17 PM

Yikes!!!!!

kk1

09-21-2009, 06:49 PM

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/38767/924698-1.8_anjulie___ready_for_more_large.jpg

Princess Anjulie prepares for another 'bout' with Kurt----Lucky Bastard!!

Davis is so underappreaciated.

creaky

09-22-2009, 01:24 AM

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/38767/924698-1.8_anjulie___ready_for_more_large.jpg

Princess Anjulie prepares for another 'bout' with Kurt----Lucky Bastard!!

Wow. I can't believe they actually got away with that.

The Sword Is Drawn

09-22-2009, 03:14 AM

Yum!

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/thumb/8/87/Excalibur_Vol_1_9_Back_Cover.jpg/200px-Excalibur_Vol_1_9_Back_Cover.jpg

Beats phat Karma every time.

You've gone wrong.

Worth noting for future fans of Uncanny, that Kymri does later re-appear in Claremont's post-Revolution period Uncanny. You may not realise it though, as she is actually enslaved by Tullamore Voge, one of the many multiversal Slavers who Claremont likes to use, and who debuted in this very period of Excalibur.

limerick

09-22-2009, 02:44 PM

Wow. I can't believe they actually got away with that.
I don't remember a panel that racey when I read the comic last week.....Has it been touched-up to make her look less clothed....I'll check!

limerick

09-22-2009, 02:50 PM

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/38767/924698-1.8_anjulie___ready_for_more_large.jpg

Hooray for eagle-eyed creaky---This picture is a fake!!(I thought I would have remembered that!).....In the original,her 'dress' extends over her ass,protecting her dignity.....Also,Kurt is in the original---She's pinning him down on the bed,playfully.....To some twisted pervert on Comicvine----Hang your filthy head in shame....(you genius!)

Imraith Nimphais

09-22-2009, 03:31 PM

Wot I do love about this particular arc in the C-TC are the outfits...outre et tres, tres sexy...quite reminiscent of Mugler (whom I lovelovelove)...those panel dresses with the embellished collars and headresses...scrummy...the studded leather fetish wear...and the men! Oh! Those men!...plus the cover of #17...everytime I look at it I have to laugh...yes, even now...I think it's one of the funniest things.

limerick

09-22-2009, 03:35 PM

That cover is just sooooo funny!.....And Imraith...I want a clean confession on this.....You're the one responsible for that Anjulie bare ass picture....admit it!

limerick

09-22-2009, 03:37 PM

You've gone wrong.

Worth noting for future fans of Uncanny, that Kymri does later re-appear in Claremont's post-Revolution period Uncanny. You may not realise it though, as she is actually enslaved by Tullamore Voge, one of the many multiversal Slavers who Claremont likes to use, and who debuted in this very period of Excalibur.
As always The Sword is Drawn---Thanks for the great info!....Always appreciated.

limerick

09-22-2009, 03:45 PM

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/38767/924701-1.4_anjulie___reward_a_large.jpg

Non Imraith(probably) porn Anjulie.........Well,this is as non-porn as she gets.

Imraith Nimphais

09-22-2009, 03:57 PM

LOLOLOLOLOLOL...I wish it was me, Limerick...unfortunately, non. (besides, as fetching as she may be, she's blonde...I'm not partial to blondes). Kymri is certainly more my type

limerick

09-22-2009, 04:05 PM

Thoughts on Excalibur # 17

--This issue was the first issue I recieved from my Marvel subciption period in 1989-1990....They promised 'Mailed in polythene protective bags'......I got dog-eared comics that still make me wince when I look at them.....'Marvel Subscription----You stink!

--As Imraith says,this is an awesome cover...and so different from any other Marvel title at the time.....This book really does have a sense of humour ahead of it's time.

--This second part of this Alternate Earth story is unusual in that it's really it's own story and has very little links to the last issue.....I think Claremont was keen to develop Rachel's power/non-power dilemma.....By using the same Alternate Earth as the last issue,he doesn't have to bother wasting time introducing characters and is left with more time for Rachel.

--Saying that,these alternate Earth stories do make you accept certain things without too many questions......Like,how did de-powered Rachel find this Earth's version of Jean Grey??.....You just have to let it pass and put it down to story development.

Are the Excalibur men turning into a bunch of sluts?.....Kurt and Alistaire are reallyb sowing their wild oats while on tour.....Check out Alistaire's hand going for first base with Kymri on the 2nd panel of page 22.

--The ending of this issue left me slightly confused....Did Meggan and Rachel really bring the rest of Excalibur back to life??!!...That's heavy!

--Also,the final page left me slightly perplexed.....I thought that the train moves between alternate Earths......But they seem to have travelled to outer space in the last page where they bump into Professor Xavier......I don't understand that......It wasn't how I thought Widget worked.

limerick

09-22-2009, 04:23 PM

Alan Davis does confirm on his website that

1..Anjuile is an alternate version of Saturnyne(I'm a dolt for not spotting that!)

2..This world was referred to as the 'Warlord' Alternate Earth.

limerick

09-27-2009, 02:46 PM

I'll be skipping Excalibur this week----I'm trying to get all the 'From the Beginning' threads up to date before moving onto 1990 cover dates....The next Excalibur issue,# 18,is dated January 1990.

limerick

09-27-2009, 03:31 PM

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/2317/120558-92483-meggan_super.jpg

The Alternate Earth where Meggan has taken on the Captain Britain mantle after the death of her Brian(from a couple of issues back)......(Alistaire manages to pick up another weird outfit for his alternate Earth collection---He's really starting to bug me!)

Joe Acro

09-27-2009, 07:34 PM

This week, I finally got around to reading the first five issues of the series.

I have to say... I'm not entertained. Issue #4 was easily the best, with #5 being second-best. It was delightful, with body-switching and Murderworld amusement. The only stickler was the fate of Courtney Ross at the end of #5. Completely out of nowhere and, well, too confusing to really be shocking.

I mean, the first issue has a focus on the seeming creation of Widget. For a first issue, shouldn't one focus on the team? Shouldn't the first few pages show us what Excalibur is about? And yet we get a weird three-page aside with Widget at the start.

The subsequent hostage scene and aftermath work fine--ntroducing an upcoming problem, showcasing what a few of the members can do, and including what might be a recurring supporting character. But then we have a segue with Meggan and Nigthcrawler. Why are they just being introduced into the comic now? Why weren't they on the mission? And so on.

It's just that in the first three issues, there are a series of events that aren't fully explained or seem completely unconnected. Yes, I read X-Men, but shouldn't there be something explaining why Kitty is having phasing trouble? (And if she is, it's really hard to tell, as she doesn't have trouble interacting with her teammates.) I didn't read adventures proceeding the series, and yet I'm just supposed to know about the Warwolves and their previous interactions with the team. How only Kitty knows the Warwolves are involved, how she gets turned solid, how she isn't killed, how she affects the Warwolf... none of it's really explained.

Sure, issue #3, aside from the Widget story, is a more cohesive character issue. But the interactions and reactions seem a bit forced and unnatural. For example, Brian apparently has a drinking problem. We haven't seen him have a drink since the series started. How bad a problem can it be?

The end of issue #5 is more like the first three issues. An unexplained plot turn that seemingly has nothing to do with what's gone on. Why give us a Courtney Ross spotlight issue and then kill her off? Why should I know who Saturnyne (Sat-Yr-9) is? (I read enough Captain Britain to know, but were I a first-time reader, I'd be lost.)

The art sometimes lacks good direction. People saying too much to match the panel provided. Perhaps that's Marvel Method-related and more Claremont's fault. Davis does draw nice stuff, though. Good people, detailed backgrounds, etc.

Overall, though, I'm just greatly disappointed.

DungeonmasterJim

09-27-2009, 10:33 PM

My understanding was that the graphic novel which was before the on-going series was sort of a meter tester for a possible on-going series. The team was introduced and what they are all fighting for in the last few pages. I was actually happy the on-going didn't just recap all that like they use to in those days - a couple of pages of redrawn art.

The intro of Widget didn't bother me. He was integral to later stories and eventually became a team member.

For not understanding the warwolves plot points, again the graphic novel needed to be read. I think there might be a editoral notation about that since Marvel was still doing that back then. The vague explanations of Kitty and the warwolves worked for me in issue 2. I didn't dwell on it and it happened. Why would Kitty neccessarily have an explanation of how exactly she affected the warwolf?

For Brian's drinking that was brought up in the Special Edition graphic novel. Most of your questions seemed to be answered from that. I'm not sure if you read separate issues or a trade. I'm still fairly certain from memory that editorial notations in some scenes referred to the Special Edition.

Issue 5 I suspect was to sort of introduce Courtney history with Brian and that she was his first girlfriend and that he still had feelings for her. Satry-9 replacing her led to several stories later on in the series.

I suspect your lack of enjoyment came from two main things:

1 - missing the Special Edition graphic novel. It intro'd the team and gave it's reason for being.

2 - Claremont's style of writing. He's wonderful and sometimes very irritating at writing a small snippet like Widget's intro and then picking the story line up 6 to 8 issues later. Or sometimes even years later.

DM Jim

Joe Acro

09-27-2009, 11:19 PM

The intro of Widget didn't bother me. He was integral to later stories and eventually became a team member.I know it eventually becomes a member. It just doesn't make any sense to me to make it the lead-in story for the first two issues of a new ongoing about a team it has no ties to (as of yet).

Why would Kitty neccessarily have an explanation of how exactly she affected the warwolf? She wouldn't, necessarily. But certainly one could've been provided.

Most of your questions seemed to be answered from that. I'm not sure if you read separate issues or a trade. I'm still fairly certain from memory that editorial notations in some scenes referred to the Special Edition. I read the first five issues, as individual issues. Within the first two issues, there is only one citation for the Special Edition, provided after Kitty says "First Bodybag--".

Issue 5 I suspect was to sort of introduce Courtney history with Brian and that she was his first girlfriend and that he still had feelings for her.It was easy to tell before issue 5 that he still had feelings for her.

Satry-9 replacing her led to several stories later on in the series.I imagine so. But it feels out of place here.

I suspect your lack of enjoyment came from two main things:

1 - missing the Special Edition graphic novel. It intro'd the team and gave it's reason for being.Undoubtedly so.

2 - Claremont's style of writing. He's wonderful and sometimes very irritating at writing a small snippet like Widget's intro and then picking the story line up 6 to 8 issues later. Or sometimes even years later.Wasn't really a problem for me when reading Uncanny.

kk1

09-28-2009, 04:17 PM

This week, I finally got around to reading the first five issues of the series.

I have to say... I'm not entertained.

I mean, the first issue has a focus on the seeming creation of Widget. For a first issue, shouldn't one focus on the team? Shouldn't the first few pages show us what Excalibur is about? And yet we get a weird three-page aside with Widget at the start.

The art sometimes lacks good direction. .

It's called foreshadowing and wow just wow, lacks direction? Not only is Alan Davis one of the best pencilers in terms of pure talent he is also one of the best storytellers to pick up a pencil.

kk1

09-28-2009, 04:23 PM

Anyone else catch the season premiere of Family Guy? It was called "Road To The Multiverse" (they often do homages to the old Bob Hope Bing Crosby "Road to[insert location here]" movies) and they pretty much jumped around to slightly different versions of their universe just like the Excalibur story. Too close to be a coincidence.

Joe Acro

09-28-2009, 06:23 PM

It's called foreshadowing and wow just wow, lacks direction? Not only is Alan Davis one of the best pencilers in terms of pure talent he is also one of the best storytellers to pick up a pencil.
Y'know, looking back, I actually see my mistake. Problems I had in the storytelling required me noticing smaller tidbits here and there that I didn't pick up the first time. Probably got lost in the haphazardness of the writing.

The Sword Is Drawn

09-29-2009, 02:04 AM

So Alan Davis will be at the British International Comics Show, this weekend. But I'm not sure what to try to get him to sketch. Somehow Captain Britain seems a bit obvious.

KandouErik

09-29-2009, 06:30 AM

I never read as much of this series, and those parts I did where vaguely confusing. I would like to read it from the beginning, in an Essential TPB. Maybe they will do that soon, since their running out of regular X-Men issues to reprint (I'm half expecting X-Men #1 to be reprinted in the 10th volume)

jarrod

09-29-2009, 07:39 AM

So Alan Davis will be at the British International Comics Show, this weekend. But I'm not sure what to try to get him to sketch. Somehow Captain Britain seems a bit obvious.
Tangerine!

Talisman

09-29-2009, 07:43 AM

Tangerine!

And Micromax! Or the ClanDestine! Especially Kay Cera!

Joe Acro

09-29-2009, 12:52 PM

So Alan Davis will be at the British International Comics Show, this weekend. But I'm not sure what to try to get him to sketch. Somehow Captain Britain seems a bit obvious.
Doctor Strange.

Because he draws a wonderful Doctor Strange.

kk1

09-30-2009, 03:13 PM

So Alan Davis will be at the British International Comics Show, this weekend. But I'm not sure what to try to get him to sketch. Somehow Captain Britain seems a bit obvious.

Kitty or Rachel would be awesome, Meggan and Nightcrawler too, Saturnyne(or another of her alternate reality selves), the Crazy Gang, Betsy, The Fury, Batman, the Flash, Green Lantern you really can't go wrong with anything.

limerick

09-30-2009, 03:15 PM

I'm going with Meggan,TSID---make it happen!

Daniel Mengsk

09-30-2009, 03:19 PM

You've gone wrong.

I can swear that Gatie looked good the other night....maybe I should stop drinking when I'm home...alone...

So is Opal Luna Saturnyne still around, I lost track of her during HoM. She was such a sweet Omniversal Majestrix - Alan Davis knew how to draw this perfect woman.

creaky

09-30-2009, 03:35 PM

So Alan Davis will be at the British International Comics Show, this weekend. But I'm not sure what to try to get him to sketch. Somehow Captain Britain seems a bit obvious.

Naked Nightcrawler!

Joe Acro

09-30-2009, 03:41 PM

So is Opal Luna Saturnyne still around, I lost track of her during HoM. She was such a sweet Omniversal Majestrix - Alan Davis knew how to draw this perfect woman.
She should be. She appeared as a member of the Hellfire Club prior to House of M and I don't believe there's been a death story.

limerick

09-30-2009, 03:56 PM

creaky

10-01-2009, 12:46 AM

Pardon the lateness, but I looked through #16 tonight and noticed a couple things I hadn't before.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n69/roilier/kurt_anjulie.jpg
"...an inimitable style, uniquely his own". I am VERY intrigued.

Also, Kurt is not always a gentleman:
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n69/roilier/kurt_grope.jpg

DungeonmasterJim

10-01-2009, 08:05 AM

Gotta love Nightcrawler!

He's just an awesome character.

DM Jim

Joe Acro

10-01-2009, 12:54 PM

Good to haveyou posting,Joe......the first 5 issues were a bit of a mixed bag to you,I see......I did think in the first 20 issues or so,not having read Captain Britain's own book was a bit of a disadvantage......I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing!I'd say it's a bad thing. (Not that I had that problem, as I had read related Captain Britain issues prior to reading these issues.) I think, as a new series, these early issues rely too much on stories that new readers may not have had access to. Some missed Captain Britain, and might have had trouble with the Sat-Yr-9 plot. I missed the preceding special, and thus missed details about the Warwolves (not that that helps all my problems with their story).

I know this was a fairly successful comic, in that it lasted quite a while, but based on these issues, I can't say I see why.

I must say, though, that it does read a little bit better if I ignore the text.

limerick

10-01-2009, 05:38 PM

Wow....it sounds like you really don't like!.....I think you're the first person I've heard whose been turned off by those first few issues!

Joe Acro

10-01-2009, 05:45 PM

Wow....it sounds like you really don't like!.....I think you're the first person I've heard whose been turned off by those first few issues!
I've read worse comics. I've read better.

But those first five didn't make me want to read more.

limerick

10-01-2009, 05:50 PM

Thanks for the opinions......I gotts get back to the 'From The Beginning' Threads tomorrow---I've been lazy this week!

Daniel Mengsk

10-02-2009, 05:34 PM

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/36894/796337-chambers1_large.jpg

Wow---she is so hot.How can a dragon resist?!!

A dragon? How can any man resist? :biggrin:

What happened to Mr. Chambers, did he make any more appearances beyond this issue?

Goshin

10-02-2009, 05:40 PM

A dragon? How can any man resist? :biggrin:

What happened to Mr. Chambers, did he make any more appearances beyond this issue?

I seen Mr. Chambers working at a Wendy's drive thru with MC Hammer and an overweight Spice Girl

Aelle3

10-04-2009, 06:37 AM

Also, Kurt is not always a gentleman:
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n69/roilier/kurt_grope.jpg

Ha, I never noticed that before. Love love love excalibur Nightcrawler.

I said it on the Captain Britain page Sword but i still think Meggan is my top pick, with Kylun, Nightcrawler or Killraven just behind.

Joe Acro

10-04-2009, 08:46 AM

A dragon? How can any man resist? :biggrin:
Makes one wonder a bit about Lockheed, though. He's attracted to humans?

limerick

10-04-2009, 09:12 AM

Makes one wonder a bit about Lockheed, though. He's attracted to humans?
He always was ,wasn't he??......I always thought he had a thing for Kitty,didn't he?

Joe Acro

10-04-2009, 09:15 AM

I always thought he had a thing for Kitty,didn't he?
I've often imagined as such, though I don't believe it's ever been made explicit.

limerick

10-04-2009, 09:17 AM

Probably what stretches believability the most is how Miss Locke knows he'll be overcome by her ample 'charms'

Joe Acro

10-04-2009, 09:21 AM

Probably what stretches believability the most is how Miss Locke knows he'll be overcome by her ample 'charms'
I don't think she does know, actually. She's just trying what normally works, I think. And it does.

Even though there's not a though bubble, I imagine it goes "Hardly" I hope.

limerick

10-04-2009, 09:28 AM

You're right,I think....even though I can see why it would normally work....One thing which always puzzled me was how ignorant Arcade and Mr. Chambers seemed to be to her sexiness.....They never once seemed to even register that she was hot......I always thought Arcade might be gay.....But what was up with Chambers??

Joe Acro

10-04-2009, 09:54 AM

limerick

10-04-2009, 10:48 AM

Good point!

Daniel Mengsk

10-04-2009, 12:19 PM

Chambers looks old enough to be her dad. Maybe that's what's stopping him.

Ha ha ha, no wonder that Chamers looks so somber then:

Miss Locke: "Look daddy, your girl is shaking her hips and seducing this purple dragon for you."

Joe Acro

10-04-2009, 12:23 PM

Ha ha ha, no wonder that Chamers looks so somber then:

Miss Locke: "Look daddy, your girl is shaking her hips and seducing this purple dragon for you."Almost makes you wonder if anything happened between her and Lockheed between panels...

limerick

10-04-2009, 12:24 PM

Almost makes you wonder if anything happened between her and Lockheed between panels...
Claremont can be kinky,but surely not that kinky!

Talisman

10-04-2009, 12:25 PM

Claremont can be kinky,but surely not that kinky!
I guess you've never read Storm: The Arena?

Joe Acro

10-04-2009, 12:27 PM

Claremont can be kinky,but surely not that kinky!
Just sayin'. Giving your captor some lovin' is a way out...

Daniel Mengsk

10-04-2009, 12:39 PM

Almost makes you wonder if anything happened between her and Lockheed between panels...

Um....no. lol

limerick

10-04-2009, 12:42 PM

I guess you've never read Storm: The Arena?

Actually,I haven't yet but I'm looking foward to it now:wink: :biggrin:

Just sayin'. Giving your captor some lovin' is a way out...

lolo...just kidding.....Off-panel anything goes!

limerick

10-04-2009, 12:43 PM

Um....no. lol
Hi,Giles...How're things?.....How much of Excalibur have you read?

Daniel Mengsk

10-04-2009, 12:59 PM

Hi,Giles...How're things?.....How much of Excalibur have you read?

'Lo lim, what's up? Btw, I've called of viking invasion of the Emerald Isle. :biggrin:

Excalibur....read....the beginning and the end - everything else is a big blank.

limerick

10-11-2009, 03:54 PM

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.18.GIF

Excalibur # 18...................January 1990

"Wild Wild Wheels"----The Cross-Time Caper Part 7

Claremont/Jensen

Excalibur's Train,Pan-Dimensional Void:As they jaunt between Alternate realities,Excalibur takes a well deserved rest.......But Meggan wakes up surrounded by an energy matrix linking her and Rachel......When she looks in the mirror she sees she has assumed Rachel's appearance and vice versa......She tries to wake Rachel to get her to reverse the change but Rachel's subconcious interprets Meggan's anxiety as an attack and she lashes out telekinetically.......The force causes a shock felt by all the Excalibur team but especially by Widget,who is disrupted sufficiently to bring the train out of transit......It emerges at speed onto a desert nightscape of an Alternate Earth.

A racing car driven by this reality's Jamie Braddock just manages to avoid the train as he drives at full speed......Meggan is thrown from the train on impact and lands in Jamie's car......Captain Britain sees Meggan landing in his 'brother's' car and,despite Kitty's protests,flies after them......Rachel emerges from the train still dazed......As she wanders from the train her appearance gradually reverts back to her true self......But in her dazed state she wanders onto the 'race track' and is unaware of another rally car bearing down on her at pace.......Nightcrawler tries to save her by teleporting to her but when he tries to port them both back out he is unable to summon up enough strength.......At the last second Lockheed saves the day by pushing them out of the way!

Later,Kitty patches into the local television network and sees that this world is obsessed with Rally racing......She sees Jamie and Meggan on the broadcast but Meggan seems out of it as if unaware what's going on.......She wonders why C.B. hasn't caught up with them yet......Kitty wonders if Meggan's state is related to Rachel who is semi-comatose and on an I.V. drip,being looked after by Kurt and Alistaire......Outside she ponders the nature of this Earth which seems less well defined than the others they have encountered as if it was made up as it went along......Outside she finds the remains of a car,ORZ1,which she recognizes from the television broadcasts-----It had crashed in mysterious circumstances,killing it's driver......Widget arrives beside her and starts devouring the remnants of the car......Within a few moments he transforms himself into a near perfect copy of the car......Kityy tells Kurt she's going after C.B. and Meggan......Kurt tells her it's too dangerous and that he'll do it but Widget will only allow Kityy to drive!.......Kurt admits defeat and Kitty leaves taking Lockheed with her.

Further down the road they pass C.B. ,whose walking.......He explains that when he caught up to Jamie's car,Meggan didn't seem to recognise him or acknowledge his presence.......Worse still,Jamie hit him with some ray beam which knocked his powers for six......They've only partially returned so far and he can't fly yet......Kitty wonders if the Jamie of their reality has powers too?

They head off in the direction of Jamie's car but are pulled over by two hot Manga/Anime-type cops(Kitty,Brian and everything else is also becoming more Manga styled as the story goes on).....TheY are about to charge them when they realise who Brian is(In this reality he was the driver of the wrecked car,ORZ1)......They are both elated at seeing someone who they fancy so much but shocked because they believed he was dead---Killed by his brother,but they couldn't prove it......The cops("Dirty Angels")head after Jamie,hoping to catch him at last......Kitty,Brian and Lockheed follow closely behind.

Further down the race track Jamie is growing slightly bored with another easy victory......He takes a pit stop at a luxurious services where the public idolise him......Meggan is completely under his control and cannot move independently.....But Jmaie sees a news flash about Brian rejoining the race and becomes angry,since he knows he killed him himself!

The Excalibur Train:Alistaire leaves Rachel to try and help Kurt fix the train.....Rachel hears a voice calling for help in her head and then starts to feel all tingly.....When she gets out of bed and looks in the mirror she sees she has once again transformed to Meggan's outward appearance......Seconds later
she transforms to Brian.......At the same time Jamie and Meggan are sitting in a restaurant booth when Meggan transforms to a Rachel-like appearance.....Jamie is unsure what caused it but he notices that Meggan has a second energy matrix around her(Like 616 Jamie,he sees the universe and everything in it as an energy signature which he can control)......Reaching out for the energy signature,his hand suddenly passes through Rachel's mirror and he grabs her......But Meggan distracts him and he loses his grip,releasing Rachel......At that moment the Dirty Angels come screeching into the restaurant,driving their car through the wall,wit their high spec guns aimed at Jamie.

A fewmiles back Kitty and Brian watch as there's a huge explosion----The Dirty Angels detonated their Anti-matter weapon by accident and blew the place up.....The two cops flee the scene with angry members of the general public chasing after them.......Kitty and Brian continue on to the ruined pitstop......On arriving they are attacked by a monstrous version of Meggan,who is being completely controlled by Jamie.......Brian tries to hold her off while Jamie tackles Kitty.....But he struggles with her energy matrix because of her phasing power.....After he easily defeats an attempt by Lockheed to fry him,Jamie buries Brian and Meggan unde a pile of rubble.....Kittymanages to escape and clears off before he can get her again......But Jamie is happy----He's got Widget and Lockheed and heknows she'll be back for them.....Whistling to himself,he starts walking away......At that moment Brian frees himself from the rubble----Holding an unconcious Meggan,he swears he'll stop his brother from harming anyone else!

FIN

MIMIC616

10-11-2009, 04:26 PM

Love the Adam Warren, Lovely Angels "Dirty Pair" reference.

Dirty Angels a "Lovely Pair"

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g87/betaflight/excalibur_018_-_12.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g87/betaflight/excalibur_018_-_13.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g87/betaflight/excalibur_018_-_18.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g87/betaflight/Yuri_and_pigtail_Kei_by_AdamWarren.jpg

limerick

10-11-2009, 04:30 PM

Wow!MIMIC616---I wasn't expecting to hear from you for another 100 issues or so...lololol!....Great to have you posting,dude.....I'm afraid my Anime knowledge is limited,to say the least......But now you've given me the reference i'll google them.....It was obvious they were a homage to someone but Ia wasn't quite sure what......thanks,again!...(love the Mimic thread,BTW)

kk1

10-11-2009, 05:52 PM

It's actually a very, very poor parody. The art in this issue is awful, if you're going to do an anime style issue you could at least get someone who can draw in an anime style. (there are actual two dirty pair incarnations, the original being the best IMO :wink: )

http://images.absoluteanime.com/dirty_pair/index.jpg

http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh378/Tekken3Princess/DPLA-Wallpaper.jpg

limerick

10-13-2009, 03:05 PM

Thoughts on Excalibur # 18:

--This issue doesn't work for me for one main reason--the art......There is an attempt in the issue to have a gradual conversion of the characters to a Manga/Anime look but because I'm unfamiliar with the artist,it kinda passed me by a little...This was particularly true of the cover.....I didn't realise they were supposed to be Anime versions of Excalibur until after I read the story.As kk1 says the art take-off of the Dirty Angels is very poor--Almost an insult to any fans......I think this issue needed Davis more than some of the others.....It's a shame he picked this issue to opt out of......It's amazing how different the issues read without him,he really is a major creative influence in this book when he's pencilling.

--Something strange is going on between Rachel and Meggan which causes their powers to overlap somehow......It's been touched on in previous issues but features more here.....All will be revealed soon,I trust.

--I've just had another look at that cover---It's awful!Meggan's head is tiny and she looks like she's been supersizing!.....Kitty's lost an eye to her hair-do......Kurt's bouffant look is probably the worst rendition of him I've seen to date.....At least Brian and Rachel emerge relatively unscathed!

--I was surprised at the start of the story to find that the train spends time in a pan-dimensional void between parallel universes......I had assumed that the transfers were instant.....i.e.the journey took no time....(check out Kitty's train-driver's hat on page 3!).....Also,why are Rachel and Meggan sharing a room?

--On page 13 Widget has a reasonably coherent exchange with Kitty--When did he become quite the conversationalist?......It's the first time he's seemed to possess any intelligence....Up until now he's been motivated by food only!

--At the end Brian promises he's gonna kick his brother's arse--But how?....Jamie seems the equivalent of an Omega class mutant......His powers are awesome and Excalibur will have their work cut out dealing with this(and the 616)Jamie.

--BTW...this issue marks the beginning of a 5-issue hiatus by Davis so get used to it!

Imraith Nimphais

10-13-2009, 03:24 PM

After reading # 18...I got the distinct feeling that CTC should have ended at # 17...a classic case of "too much of a good thing", perhaps...I took one look at it and my detestation knew no bounds...(I really, really dislike "manga"...absolutely hate it with a passion)...and truth to tell, I could not comprehend wot the frakk I was supposed to be reading...Claremont lost me on this one...and...to be quite honest, Lim...the Davis-hiatus of which you speak absolutely ruined the rest of my (short) stay on this title.

limerick

10-13-2009, 04:28 PM

Reasonable Leonardi art next issue but the three after that are quite poor......Davis' deputies are the last picks of the last draft, using football terms

limerick

10-17-2009, 05:34 PM

limerick

10-17-2009, 05:47 PM

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.19.GIF

Excalibur # 19...................February 1990

"Madripoor Knights"----The Cross-Time Caper Part 8

Claremont/Leonardi

Madripoor,An Alternate Earth:The scene has shifted to Madripoor where Jami Braddock continues to look for Kitty who has managed to allude him.....He is still in possession of Widget and Lockheed......Captain Britain suddenly emerges,confronting him physically and berating him as a failure of a brother......Jamie takes a lot of unanswered hits initially but then shows his awesome power easily brushing him aside,sending Brian flying through several walls.......A defenceless C.B. is helpless as Jamie uses his reality-altering powers on him.....Brian screams in pain as Jamie starts working his power on him.

Nearby Kitty hears Brian's scream and wonders what she can do to help him......Widget suddenly appears in front of her and opens a gate to another reality......She refuses to leave Brian in his moment of need but when Lockheed(controlled by Jamie)comes shooting towards her shooting flames,she instinctively steps into the gate and is instantly gone.

Elsewhere,Nightcrawler tries to get the train operational,watched by Alistaire......Suddenly,The Dirty Angels arrive on foot looking for help......Alistaire helps them hide while Nightcrawler takes cover......Seconds later,a huge crowd follows,looking for the Dirty Angels who they blame for the destruction of The Pitte Stoppe(see last issue)......Alistaire manages to convince them he knows nothing about them......After the crowd moves on the Dirty Angels come out......When Nightcrawler comes out of hiding they're initially scared of him and draw their weapons.....But he quickly wins them over with his irresistale charm.

Inside the train Rachel recovers from her encounter with Jamie Braddock which has left her unable to move physically.....She contacts Meggan in Madripoor telepathically and explains that by allowing her to access her shape-shifting power she will be able to assume the powers and appearance of The X-mn which will catch Jamie off guard......Meggan has doubts about letting Rachel control her every movement but realses she has no choice.....Her body starts to assume the form of Wolverine...

London,Earth(616!):Kitty wakes up and finds herself in a bedroom she doesn't recognise......Downstairs she finds an old housekeeper who gives her something to eat.....Kitty is startled when the woman tells her she is in the London townhouse of Jamie Braddock!

Alternate Madripoor:Assuming the forms of Wolverine,Longshot and Dazzler Meggan reluctantly fights her boyfriend,Brian,who is under Jamie's comlete control......Defeating him,she worries she's hurt him seriously.......Jamie reappears taunting her that he's a better man for her.

London,Earth(616):Kitty reads a newspaper and works out she's finally back in the right dimension......She borrows some clothes,gets dressed and heads outside where Widget still has the gate open to the Alternate Earth she came from.......But just as sheleaves she hears a noise from the room upstairs--Dazzler's photon blast!.....She phases upstairs to see what's happening there.

Alternate Madripoor:Meggan(as Dazzler) tries hitting Jamie with a photon blast but it stops short of hitting him---He's removed all sound from the area,rendering her power inoperative.....But Rachel transforms Meggan to Havok and blasts him with a full-force plasma blast......Jamie takes a direct hit and the blast passes directly through his stomach!......He brushes off this hit,though,seeming omnipotent......Rachel transforms Meggan next to Storm(who hits him with lightning),then Colossus(who batters him physically) and finally Rogue......As Rogue she tries to absorb Jamie's powers but it has the opposite effect and he takes control of both Meggan and Phoenix(through their telepathic connection).

London,Earth(616):Kitty phases into Jamie's room......He's in front of the fire playing with little figurines....of The X-men!......Kitty realises what's happening in the other dimension is connected to his actions......Up to now he seems oblivious to her presence.

Alternate Madripoor:Suddenly,Kurt,Alistaire and The Dirty Angels arrive guns a blazing on Excalibur's train which can fly(Kurt finally figured out how it works)......They hit Jamie and buried under a load of rubble,he finally seems beaten.......Widget has been damaged and the link with the 616-iverse is broken......Excalibur take their bearings and realise Kitty's missing ....But then Jamie re-emerges,ready to destroy them all.

London,Earth(616):Kitty takes a huge gamble and orders the child-like Jamie to bed......Amazingly,he listens to her and goes to bed,falling asleep......She goes outside to enter the gate and try and rejoin the others.....But when she passes through the gate it doesn't work and she's stuck where she is.......She goes home to Merlin Mews where she falls asleep in tears,thinking she's lost Excalibur the same way she lost the X-men......Later,Sat-Yr-9(posing as Courtney Ross) enters her room and watching the sleeping Kitty,thinks about how she can make Kitty hers...

Alternate Madripoor:As the 616 Jamie goes to sleep the whole town of Madripoor,Jamie and The Dirty Angels disappear,leaving Excalibr wondering about what's happened and where Kitty is?

FIN

limerick

10-26-2009, 04:35 AM

Thoughts on Excalibur # 19:

--Another Davis-less issue with the very competent Rick Leonardi filling in.....But even though it's co-finished by Terry Austin,this isn't Leonardi's best work on an X-book and the art is only average.

--Probably the biggest talking point about this issue is the way Meggan can mimic the powers of the X-men......I had known she was a shape-shifter but I didn't realise she could mimic abilities to that extent.....She's got it all--Havok's plasma blast,Dazzler's photon bursts,Storm's weather control,Rogue's power absorbing ability.....I know Phoenix is helping her realise the transformations but it's no mean feat.

--Jamie Braddock is a very formidable foe......His power just seems stronger and stronger each issue....Now he can reach across dimensions and control one completely.....You get the feeling it will take Phoenix at the very top of her cosmic game to beat him.

--Certainly not Excalibur's high point to date!

Aelle3

10-26-2009, 05:13 AM

Yeah id say not the best issue, but also sadly not the worst. My biggist problem with the issue is Meggans total person shape shifting and power mimicing. I feel like she could have done all those things without much shape changing anyway, she has show weather controle and can beef up to the size and strength of Colossus.

limerick

10-26-2009, 05:19 AM

limerick

10-26-2009, 08:31 AM

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30205696326.20.GIF

Excalibur # 20...................March 1990

"The Eye of The Beholder"----The Cross-Time Caper Interlude

Higgins/Lim

THIS ISSUE IS SET JUST BEFORE THE CROSS-TIME CAPER

Aurthur's Seat,Edinburgh,Scotland:An American couple climb the hill overlooking Edinburgh to get a good look at Edinburgh Castle.....But in a sudden burst of energy they are transformed into two stone pillars......The energy released by their transformation opens a gateway and more stone in a 'Stonehenge' arrangement materialise......Seconds later,the blue-skinned Demon Druid materialises in the middle of the stone formation,celebrating the fact that he is free again.

The Excalibur Lighthouse,England:Meggan is very upset at the state of her relationship with Brian and becomes emotional that nothing she does seems to get through to him.....Kurt tries to calm her down,telling her she's beautiful but she lashes out at him and calls him a monster......Realising she's hurt him she flies away from the lighthouse in tears......Kurt tries to rationalise what she said to him but is upset by it.

London:Brian kisses Courtney Ross(actually Sat-yr-9 in disguise) but is distracted by a previous arguement with Meggan.....Courtney suggests going back to her apartment to talk(!) about it.......As they leave Meggan flies overhead and sees them......Further angered by what she sees,she speeds off into the Northern horizon......Moving at full pace she soon arrives in Edinburgh where she witnesses the appearance of the Demon Druid......Although not certain of his motives she changes to a Godzilla-type appearance and lands aggressively beside him.....Sensing huge power within her,he attacks her with an energy beam saying she has the power he's been looking for so long.

Courtney Ross's Aparment,London:Sat-yr-9 sees footage of the battle in Scotland on television as she changes into something more 'casual'.....But she decides she won't tell Brian,whose in the other room,not wanting to lose his attention.

Edinburgh:Kitty and Rachel arrive in Edinburgh to check out a bar reccommened to Rachel by a 'freaky writer' friend.....But it's a complete dive so they decide to pass......As they leave they see the commotion on the hill overlooking the city......Rachel changes them into their costumes and they head straight there.....The Demon Druid senses Rachel's power and makes her his primary target instead of Meggan(who accepts this rejection as another slight on her character)......As he did to the tourists earlier,he changes her to a stone pillar to free the energy of her essence for him to consume.

Kitty arrives in time to see this happening ....she tries phasing through him to release Meggan.....She feels something extraordinary in her mind and then there is a burst of energy......The Demon Druid disappears and Meggan and the tourists are restored,although exhausted by their ordeal.....All of the stones which appeared earlier disappear as well......Kitty is aware something has happened to her but she doesn't reveal this to the others.

Excalibur's Lighthouse:Kitty works enthusiastically on a new technical device....She knows it's something got to do with the incident in Edinburgh but is unsure what.....Meanwhile Meggan apologises to Kurt for her earlier outburst.....Brian arrives back and Meggan rushes excitedly to greet him.....But much to the annoyance of the others,he says he needs space to breathe and goes to his room.....

The following morning Kitty has fallen asleep at her desk when Brian arrives down to her lab in his costume......When he wakes her she's got a severe headache and she goes to get some tablets for it....By the time she returns,C.B. has finished her device after figuring out where she was going wrong.......At that moment Meggan sees a news broadcast on television......It shows the Demon Druid at the Darkmoor Nuclear Research Facility.....He has created an energy facsimile of Stonehenge with nuclear cooling towers replacing the normal stones.....C.B. dashes to Darkmoor,telling the others to follow him there......Kitty changes into her costume,picks up Widget and joins the others outside.....Phoenix sperchsrges Kurt's teleporting ability and he teleports them all to Darkmoor,arriving seconds before C.B.

Kitty connects Widget to her new device and prepares him to open an inter-dimensional breach to send the druid away......At that moment C.B. arrives and charges towards The Demon Druid,intent on taking him out......But to stop destruction on a huge scale Phoenix tries to stop him....When he won't listen she has to knock him out with a telekinetic blow to allow Kitty to complete her plan.....Rachel mindlinks Kitty with The Demon Druid....She explains to him that the portal Widget is opening in front of will take him back to his oen people......As he passes through the portal he thanks her for her help and tells her he senses greatness in her.....

With the danger over Meggan and Kitty give Brian a dressing down for charging in all guns blazing,telling him he should know better than to judge thing purely on how they appear.

FIN

limerick

10-26-2009, 11:12 AM

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/14493/291340-82639-demon-druid_super.jpg

The Demon Druid(Upon hearing the Jolly Green Giant's beaten him to a lucrative contract)

Valjean999

10-26-2009, 01:31 PM

#20 is but one of many useless fill-in issues around this time, if I remember right...

creaky

10-26-2009, 01:46 PM

The Excalibur Lighthouse,England:Meggan is very upset at the state of her relationship with Brian and becomes emotional that nothing she does seems to get through to him.....Kurt tries to calm her down,telling her she's beautiful but she lashes out at him and calls him a monster......Realising she's hurt him she flies away from the lighthouse in tears......Kurt tries to rationalise what she said to him but is upset by it.

Ooo, could we have the exact dialogue, please?

limerick

10-26-2009, 01:52 PM

Thoughts on Excalibur # 20:

--This issue occurs during issue # 11 according to The Marvel Chronology Project.....I'm sure those guys have their facts straight!

--Rachel looks great on the cover....There's just something about that red costume!......The cover does make you wonder what's happening inside.....For once it reflects events in the story pretty accurately......Around this time ,Marvel had a policy of publshing misleading covers.....(See New Mutants # 87,for example...."Watch out Muties....Here comes a man called Cable!".....The New Mutants have targets over their faces like Cable's gonna take them down!)

--Wow,thtat couple at the start are pretty grumpy.....Imagine quarrelling while overlooking beautiful Edinburgh.

--The Demon Druid is a bit cheesy looking.....I think he originates from a Thor issue way back when.

--The art,again,is poor.....I wish they could have stuck with a regular replacement artist for Alan Davis.....He obviously struggled to make the monthly deadline so why didn't they get someone like Leonardi to do every 4th issue or so.....At least we'd get some sort of consistency then......This sort of filler issue is barely tolerable......I suppose I often don't give Claremont the credit due.....It's not that this story is completely awful but it really struggles when compared to a regular Claremont/Davis issue.

--There's definite infedelity on Brian's behalf here......He's kissing 'Courtney' on page 9 and then he goes back to her flat....She's definitely got a little more than coffoe planned for him......I don't think a red-blooded male could turn her done!

--Why is Rachel bringing Kitty to a pub?!.....She's too young by a long shot....

--And why does Meggan suddenly fly to Edinburgh after fleeing London upon seeing Brian?.....I suppose she could be going to meet up with Kitty and Rachel but that's pretty unlikely......Seems like a bit of a plot bender to me.

--I was surprised to see Kurt teleport them all such a huge distance....I know Phoenix is supposed to be supercharging him but it just seems too muh for a guy who's struggling to carry out a normal teleport over a short distance.

--The rest of Excalibur are really coming down hard on Brian at the end and undeservedly in my opinion.....He's right to believe The Demon Druid has bad intentions--His actions in Edinburgh would seem to confirm that.....But they're all pretty quick to have a go at him......Even Meggan who attacked the Demon Druid in Edinburgh without any provacation at all....Poor C.B.!Always misunderstood!