Question about superman 2000 editorial response.

[spidervenom]

I mean no disrespect or ill mannered attention to the writers and editorial talent involved, or if I misread anything. But I have been looking into some bits and pieces of the superman 2000/superman next propasal. I just seem to find the editorial response a bit harsh and odd. Involving such things as " Do you think we would you the keys to the family cars", the response to Mark Waid, and prohibiting big name creators on superman and batman related titles. What do think the deal with this was?

http://theages.superman.nu/History/2000/

Also, oops I put this in the wrong forum, my bad.

[Cyclopsj316]

Thank God that didn't happen... ugh.

[spidervenom]

Thank God that didn't happen... ugh.

Why? I thought it was pretty good.

[TROUBLEZ]

That response by editorial sounds kind of rude.

I've read most of the proposal and almost all of it sounds great.
I would have definitley bought those comics. The marriage erasure actually sounds better than Spider-mans. Plus, even without Clark and Lois married we all know their still going to be in each others lives and destined for each other.

What kind of stories and creative teams did the replacing of Morrison, Waid and co?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

That response by editorial sounds kind of rude.

I've read most of the proposal and almost all of it sounds great.
I would have definitley bought those comics. The marriage erasure actually sounds better than Spider-mans. Plus, even without Clark and Lois married we all know their still going to be in each others lives and destined for each other.

What kind of stories and creative teams did the replacing of Morrison, Waid and co?

The writers that replaced Morrison, Waid, Millar & Peyer ended up being Jeph Loeb, Joe Kelly, Joe Casey & couple others, who promptly tried to pull the same Mxy erases the Lois & Clark marriage trick, only to be shut down by DC Editorial again.

Loeb & company went for a bumblegum cartoonish manga-esque superhero soap opera approach that worked for awhile, then 9/11 hit and the books, along with the rest of America at the time, kinda lost its way that the Superman titles haven't really pulled themselves out of until Geoff Johns & Gary Frank finally got put together.

[CYOTI]

Loeb & company went for a bumblegum cartoonish manga-esque superhero soap opera approach that worked for awhile, then 9/11 hit and the books, along with the rest of America at the time, kinda lost its way that the Superman titles haven't really pulled themselves out of until Geoff Johns & Gary Frank finally got put together.

I think the Superman title managed to pull themselves out of it post-IC-OYL once DC had the good idea to switch editors for the Superman books.

[Sean Whitmore]

Much as I like the talent involved, I remain very glad that proposal got turned down.

I don't know how much accuracy there is in the story of them being subsequently banned from Superman titles, but if true, it was a gross overreaction. (Not to mention ridiculous, since Morrison, Waid, and Millar have all since written "out of continuity" Superman stories that far eclipsed the main books in terms of popularity)


SEAN

[dancj]

It's a huge missed opportunity. We could have had one of the best Superman runs ever and in stead we got rubbish

[Sean Whitmore]

Frankly, Joe Kelly's run easily ranks as one of my favorites. So just for his involvement, I'm happy with the way things turned out.


SEAN

[TROUBLEZ]

Loeb & company went for a bumblegum cartoonish manga-esque superhero soap opera approach that worked for awhile,

Was this with the McGuinnes Superman where he visits Krypton and their all wearing the old school 50s outfits?
The Superman issues where he's wearing a futuristic jacket and posing with a motorcylce with covers by Turner?
If so that era looks interesting.

[Sean Whitmore]

Was this with the McGuinnes Superman where he visits Krypton and their all wearing the old school 50s outfits?
The Superman issues where he's wearing a futuristic jacket and posing with a motorcylce with covers by Turner?
If so that era looks interesting.

Sort of. The "Return to Krypton" story with the 50s atmosphere happened somewhere in the middle of Jeph Loeb's run.

The story with the Turner covers was "Godfall", which sort of bridged the gap between the
Loeb(Seagle)/Kelly/Casey era and the Azzarello/Austen/Rucka era.


SEAN

[Mat001]

"Return To Krypton" came out in early 2001. It was an attempt to make the Silver Age Krypton relevant again. "Godfall" was just the second story to focus on the "Birthright" designs/continuity. Part of it was a bridge, but mainly it was the stepping stone for what came next.

I can only speculate since I was never there. I think it was a bit harsh, but I don't think it would've been too bad of an issue. And I believe as Morrison, they opted to leave the marriage alone and not undo it, before they were told no. There may have been more going on than we're aware of.

[Lorendiac]

The writers that replaced Morrison, Waid, Millar & Peyer ended up being Jeph Loeb, Joe Kelly, Joe Casey & couple others, who promptly tried to pull the same Mxy erases the Lois & Clark marriage trick, only to be shut down by DC Editorial again.

One question -- you say the new team of writers on the Super-titles tried to pull the same basic stunt of having Mxy erase the marriage. Just when was this?

Offhand, all I can remember reading from that era that (kinda) fits the bill is the stuff collected in the "Emperor Joker" TPB, in which -- thanks to Joker having Mxy's powers -- the DCU has temporarily been rearranged so that Superman is an outlaw on the run and Lois Lane doesn't remember ever being married to him. Is that what you had in mind, or was there some other published story where Mxy's magic was meant to erase the marriage, or are you referring to something similar to the rejected proposal linked at the start of this thread; something Loeb, Kelly, et al. wanted to do, but an editor shot it down in flames before it could ever start to show up in the stories that were actually published around the turn of the century?

[dancj]

One question -- you say the new team of writers on the Super-titles tried to pull the same basic stunt of having Mxy erase the marriage. Just when was this?
Not the new writers. That's what Millar, Morrison, Waid and Peyer pitched, but it got knocked back.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Not the new writers. That's what Millar, Morrison, Waid and Peyer pitched, but it got knocked back.

According to Joe Casey, the replacement Super-writers also pitched it, but were similarly rebuked by DC Editorial.

[Mat001]

The second attempt was to take place around 2002 or so.

[dancj]

Ah - I didn't know about that bit

[Mat001]

In that story, Lois's life was in danger and I think she did die. Mxy would appear and offer to restore her, but she would forget about the last couple of years. Clark agreed and she was restored. Though I've heard a different take where Mxy was going to trick Clark by revealing that she would forget after she was revived. But either way, they were going to make Mxy evil again. I think I heard Casey claim that this was why Loeb left the book, but I don't know how accurate that is. However, he did introduce the Mxy twins during the remainder of his run, which Rucka then had to undo in order to have classic Mxy during his run.