How to Introduce Dick Grayson into the Batman movies

[wolvie616]

ok so we all have agreed Robin wont work, and that Batman should not have a partner, but we also want to see dick grayson in one of the next films.

heres my suggestion

1. introduce Dick Grayson as a wealthy and Famous Gymnast/Acrobat who has recently moved to Gotham.

2. have him in his early 20's as in the comics right now.

3. have him become close friends or a rival of Bruce Wayne's

4. bypass Robin and introduce Nightwing as a RIVAL vigilante of batman who is working ot take down the mob. the costume is stealthier too.

that way we get the fanservice of having dick grayson, bypass robin, and set up a rival for batman.

thoughts?

[Choppa]

ok so we all have agreed Robin wont work, and that Batman should not have a partner, but we also want to see dick grayson in one of the next films.

I don't recall agreeing to that last part.

[Will44]

I would watch that. good idea.

However, I don't see why the 3rd movie couldn't end with the death of the Flying Graysons and Bruce Wayne taking in a young Richard Grayson. Especially if the 3rd movie really shows Bruce/Batman struggling to stay grounded (like the 2nd one started to show with the death of Rachel).

[Silvercrow]

.

However, I don't see why the 3rd movie couldn't end with the death of the Flying Graysons and Bruce Wayne taking in a young Richard Grayson. Especially if the 3rd movie really shows Bruce/Batman struggling to stay grounded (like the 2nd one started to show with the death of Rachel).

Yes i agree with that, we need the Bat to start to lose it, maybe the introduction of Bane and Grayson in the next film leading onto the Knightfall arc that would be grand.

Nightwing vs Arzael :)

[T Hedge Coke]

1. introduce Dick Grayson as a wealthy and Famous Gymnast/Acrobat who has recently moved to Gotham.

2. have him in his early 20's as in the comics right now.

3. have him become close friends or a rival of Bruce Wayne's

4. bypass Robin and introduce Nightwing as a RIVAL vigilante of batman who is working ot take down the mob. the costume is stealthier too.

that way we get the fanservice of having dick grayson, bypass robin, and set up a rival for batman.

thoughts?

That's not really Dick Grayson, though. Or, Robin. (Or, Nightwing.) That's a new character, who is a wealthy gymnast comes to Gotham and fights crime.

[wolvie616]

That's not really Dick Grayson, though. Or, Robin. (Or, Nightwing.) That's a new character, who is a wealthy gymnast comes to Gotham and fights crime.

well, of course the personality and backstory would remain largely the same.

this is just a rough outline of how to introduce him

but yeah, the 3rd movie flying graysons and whatnot is brilliant!

[T Hedge Coke]

well, of course the personality and backstory would remain largely the same.

Except for the parents-murdered-before-his-eyes-as-a-child, raised-by-Batman, kid who can kick all y'all's asses factors.

Robin not being a kid (and therefore not a ward/son of Bruce) changes the central dynamic of their relationship, and putting the events of the character's childhood (circus acrobatics, death of parents) onto an adult character makes a different person than those things happening to a child.

Who is being described here is closer to Azrael than Robin or Nightwing; adult who comes through tragedy, becomes close friends with Bruce Wayne, a contemporary on the vigilante circuit, to be followed by competition Mr. Outlaw Justice of Gotham City.

[carabas]

Yeah, gotta agree here. This proposal is pretty much Dick Grayson in name only.

[Nathan]

if /when they make the 3ed movie it should end with Bruce an a date going to the circus to see the flying Graysons that would be awesome

[wolvie616]

Except for the parents-murdered-before-his-eyes-as-a-child, raised-by-Batman, kid who can kick all y'all's asses factors.

Robin not being a kid (and therefore not a ward/son of Bruce) changes the central dynamic of their relationship, and putting the events of the character's childhood (circus acrobatics, death of parents) onto an adult character makes a different person than those things happening to a child.

Who is being described here is closer to Azrael than Robin or Nightwing; adult who comes through tragedy, becomes close friends with Bruce Wayne, a contemporary on the vigilante circuit, to be followed by competition Mr. Outlaw Justice of Gotham City.

i see what you mean................ but hey tis a reinvention no? maybe have him in his teens then? and then taken in by fox or alfred instead of bruce?

[strong guy79]

Well the cool thing about movies rather than comics is that they actually do age. So, with 3-4 years between Batman movies, a 14-15 year old ward/adopted son whose taken on as a disciple at the end of Batman 3 actually ends up as a 18 year old adult who could have grown into a believable crimefighter by the time of Batman 4.

[wolvie616]

Well the cool thing about movies rather than comics is that they actually do age. So, with 3-4 years between Batman movies, a 14-15 year old ward/adopted son whose taken on as a disciple at the of Batman 3 actually ends up as a 18 year old adult who could have grown into a believable crimefighter by the time of Batman 4.

right!

but like i said, we have to make it believable

[strong guy79]

Well what they could do, is have the 14 year old Dick taken in by Bruce out of pity. Then, of course, Dick finds out his secret wants to follow in his footsteps and gets nearly killed since he's just a kid. He still manages to help Batman out a bit at the end by acting against orders. But nothing like having a 14-year-old go toe to toe with bunch of adults, just having him do something like hit a dude with a pipe or something at the last minute. The movie could end with Dick committing himself to an apprenticeship and we get to skip over all the awkward Batman taking a teen out crimefighting parts in between the movies.

Then by Batman 4, he'd be old enough that seeing Robin fight alongside wouldn't be that unrealistic.

[T Hedge Coke]

Then by Batman 4, he'd be old enough that seeing Robin fight alongside wouldn't be that unrealistic.

I clearly have very different ideas about Robin than some of you folks.

The point of Robin is that he's a kid in bright clothes bouncing into battle beside Batman. Unrealistic or not, that's the concept. Anything else is... not Robin. Not bad, but not Robin. Give him Tim's bo or some form of slingshot and other weaponry, but aging him to an adult...

[carabas]

What's wrong with not having a Robin or Dick Grayson at all? It's not as if the concept is even slightly compatible to te tone of the first two films.

Hasn't Nolan already put his foot down on the whole Robin thing anyway?

[AJM]

if /when they make the 3ed movie it should end with Bruce an a date going to the circus to see the flying Graysons that would be awesome

I don't particularly care for Robin but i'd like that ending. Maybe he could be on a date with Selina (if she's in it, obviously) and as they walk into the circus we could pan up to a poster for The Flying Graysons or something. It would be little more than an in-joke that the general public wouldn't get, thus leaving it open for the next film to either deal with it or not. I doubt Nolan would do that though, plus the new films are so successful with a lone Batman that i doubt Warners will ever want to see Robin in a film again, not after what happened last time, and especially as a 4th film will more than likely have a different director too. But it's a nice thought.

[strong guy79]

I clearly have very different ideas about Robin than some of you folks.

The point of Robin is that he's a kid in bright clothes bouncing into battle beside Batman. Unrealistic or not, that's the concept. Anything else is... not Robin. Not bad, but not Robin. Give him Tim's bo or some form of slingshot and other weaponry, but aging him to an adult...

He can still be this. It's Dick's personality that makes him work not necessarily his costume. At the end of Batman 3 you could have him taking that candle oath to be Batman's disciple. By Batman 4 you got a kid who's big enough to believably fight criminals but with several years experience where, presumably, he was sidelined a lot during the beginning for his own safety so by now he's ready and they're actually the team they're supposed to be. With Dick being the bright shining light keeping Bruce in check. Even he's wearing a dark costume he can still be this. Blue is dark in comics but they didn't keep this in the movies and it worked fine for Batman.

Plus, this way, you can get a Nightwing movie out of it all. Which is basically what I want.

[wolvie616]

He can still be this. It's Dick's personality that makes him work not necessarily his costume. At the end of Batman 3 you could have him taking that candle oath to be Batman's disciple. By Batman 4 you got a kid who's big enough to believably fight criminals but with several years experience where, presumably, he was sidelined a lot during the beginning for his own safety so by now he's ready and they're actually the team they're supposed to be. With Dick being the bright shining light keeping Bruce in check. Even he's wearing a dark costume he can still be this. Blue is dark in comics but they didn't keep this in the movies and it worked fine for Batman.

Plus, this way, you can get a Nightwing movie out of it all. Which is basically what I want.

exactly! nightwing is the most important thing!

[Abeja]

It could work. How old was Bruce when he went away in BB? Maybe make Bruce go underground cause of what happened at the end of TDK. He could easily train a 14-year old for 5 or so years. Move forward alittle in time cause if its suppose to be right after TDK then no you cant do a Robin.

[wolvie616]

It could work. How old was Bruce when he went away in BB? Maybe make Bruce go underground cause of what happened at the end of TDK. He could easily train a 14-year old for 5 or so years. Move forward alittle in time cause if its suppose to be right after TDK then no you cant do a Robin.

well i was under the impression this would be batman 4 or 5...........

[Jorriss]

I think the simplest way to introduce him is to have his parents killed between ages 12-14, maybe as young as 10. Have him introduced at the end of three, and have 4 start off with him being Robin some amount of time later [making it ambiguous when he started, his age precisely, etc].

A question I've wondered is whether you can feasibly add Tim Drake without ever adding Jason Todd.

[wolvie616]

I think the simplest way to introduce him is to have his parents killed between ages 12-14, maybe as young as 10. Have him introduced at the end of three, and have 4 start off with him being Robin some amount of time later [making it ambiguous when he started, his age precisely, etc].

A question I've wondered is whether you can feasibly add Tim Drake without ever adding Jason Todd.

but dick is still the coolest, so that s what counts

[strong guy79]

Using Jason would lead to some good stories if you had several episodes to use but ultimately it would just be somewhat morbid since he would just be destined to die from the beginning.

[DonC]

ok so we all have agreed Robin wont work, and that Batman should not have a partner, but we also want to see dick grayson in one of the next films.


No, "we" don't.

[wolvie616]

No, "we" don't.

ok.............

[sherlocke]

oh god never intro robin pls

[Sn4tcH]

Robin is introduced as a twelve year old in a body bag, because Nolans world is realistic, and a kid fighting crime will die.

[Murrocko]

if /when they make the 3ed movie it should end with Bruce an a date going to the circus to see the flying Graysons that would be awesome

I think this would be the best way to go about it. Camera outside the circus tent, Ring leader on the mega phone announcing the the flying Graysons, roll credits.

[pariah-1972]

Then only problem with Robin in a realistic movie is that costume or even the modern update's.

[Kamen Raida]

I just would like Robin to actually be a kid instead of a 23 year-old.

I don't know about him in the Nolan movies. They're a little too anti-joy for him.

But of there is ever a movie version that isn't on either extreme end of the spectrum camp or grimdark, but more of an equalibrium like BTAS had then I'd love to see Robin in that.

[HopeLantern]

What's wrong with not having a Robin or Dick Grayson at all? It's not as if the concept is even slightly compatible to te tone of the first two films.

Hasn't Nolan already put his foot down on the whole Robin thing anyway?

You're right. Nolan stated as long as he was doing the films, Grayson would not see the light of day.

[Avenger08]

Or you introduce him as a Bruce-like Parallel in 1 movie where he is Red Robin or Nightwing, aged around 17-20 and act as a partner to bruce.

[DetectiveDupin]

You're right. Nolan stated as long as he was doing the films, Grayson would not see the light of day.

Meh, Nolan is overrated.

[Free-Man]

I don't see the need for Robin in the movies at all. Clearly, they've gotten along fine without him.

Though I wouldn't mind if they had Jason Todd dress up in a costume and then get killed by some thugs or something to show Batman's influence on Gotham.

[Jorriss]

So for a comic fan, assuming a brief knowledge that Nightwing was Robin, etc etc.

End 3 with the flying graysons death as most have said and then start four 8 years later =)

[Vakanai]

How to Introduce Dick Grayson into the Batman movies: Don't.

Or at least wait for a couple more movies.
I say movie five might be a good time.

But mostly, don't.

[Vakanai]

Robin is introduced as a twelve year old in a body bag, because Nolans world is realistic, and a kid fighting crime will die.

A twelve year old named Jason Todd in a body bag.

As a nod to the fans.

Meh, Nolan is overrated.

Maybe. But that is a wise decision of his and all future directors should agree to it.:biggrin:

[Desmodus]

Meh, Nolan is overrated.

In general or with regards to his Batman films?

Nolan's has said Robin or Dick will not feature in his movies and for me, that is a good thing.

[Darthhobbit]

I think a Nolan-ized Dick Grayson would be cool. I think he should introduce him like in Dark Victory have his parents killed, have him only like 10 years old, and have Batman help him get revenge. Same way to show Dick Batman is Bruce Wayne, keep it true to Dark Victory and I would be happy....but please....please! no Batman Forever Dick Grayson...i don't care how "totally rebel you are" doing laundry like that just makes you a total tool.

[thwhtGuardian]

meh, I could do with out a Robin, or a night wing.

I mean, Robin is only essential if you want to humanize batman and bruce wayne. Personally I prefer my batman to be dark and gritty.

[pad]

You're right. Nolan stated as long as he was doing the films, Grayson would not see the light of day.


Nolan could get the "Raimi Treatment" if the studio wanted to introduce Dick Grayson. :wink:

[Doug Side]

You have to throw realism out the window a bit if you introduce robin - making him 'nolanised' probably wouldn't work. If they did introduce him, it should be as a circus kid, who is 12 or so, and good. Crazy good. Like yoda in attack of the clones good. Stop the audiance from thinking 'this is dumb' by making them think 'this kid is badass!'

Make the character funny, and make the audiance like him. A young robin could work in a movie, and work well. But, probably not following nolan's realistic grim and gritty vision.

[John Zaleski]

You have to throw realism out the window a bit if you introduce robin - making him 'nolanised' probably wouldn't work. If they did introduce him, it should be as a circus kid, who is 12 or so, and good. Crazy good. Like yoda in attack of the clones good. Stop the audiance from thinking 'this is dumb' by making them think 'this kid is badass!'

Make the character funny, and make the audiance like him. A young robin could work in a movie, and work well. But, probably not following nolan's realistic grim and gritty vision.

co-signed. besides the 12 part. if they made him a bit older (17-22) i think it could work.

[wounded_rebel]

In Nolan's world Robin does not work, period. Like others have stated a 12-year old fighting experienced street brawlers that outweight him by 80 lb+ is dead. And no martial art training in the world can change that equation.

If anything introduce him as a 20 year old with some martial arts experience.

[DKR]

In Nolan's world Robin does not work, period. Like others have stated a 12-year old fighting experienced street brawlers that outweight him by 80 lb+ is dead. And no martial art training in the world can change that equation.

If anything introduce him as a 20 year old with some martial arts experience.

Bruce is about 30 in the movies though.

I think he should be about 15-16.

[FHIZ]

Introducing a side kick character into the Nolan films is completely unnecessary. I still remember the quote from Christian Bale saying that if they ever tried to put Robin into the movies, he'd chain himself in a basement and never come out until there was no Robin again.

[DetectiveDupin]

In general or with regards to his Batman films?

Nolan's has said Robin or Dick will not feature in his movies and for me, that is a good thing.

I don't know his work outside of the Bat-films, but some people act like he's on Scorsese level. And funny for a man so inherent on "realism" how unrealistic his films can be.

[Jorriss]

I don't know his work outside of the Bat-films, but some people act like he's on Scorsese level. And funny for a man so inherent on "realism" how unrealistic his films can be.
He makes top notch realism, because realism doesn't mean a realistic film, its a style.

But yeah, he's no scorsese. He is in the upper echelon of director's though.

[NewMutant]

Honestly, if Nolan doesn't want Robin in his movies then he shouldn't be in it. However, if Nolan is leaving the films after the third. I would love it if the movie ended with Bruce going to the circus to see the Flying Graysons. Just as nod.

I'd also love to see Harley Quinn, perhaps even as a beginning villian for the first scene to give a nod to the Joker. (Similar to Scarecrow in The Dark Knight).

They really need to put Catwoman in the movie though.

[Darthhobbit]

I think Harley would be great to show, I would prefer showing her as a doctor in Arkham going to see Joker. As far as what Nolan has stated about never doing Robin, well I think he could do an amazing job with Robin, I like how he isn't going to ruin anything by making him a co-star. Let us see all these side characters, but don't add them permanently to the movies, and please Nolan....announce a third movie this is driving me insane!

[Quinnhop]

He is in the upper echelon of director's though.

Mm... I dunno.

He's a poor man's David Fincher.

I'd rank him in the top 100, maybe, but nothing more.

[NewMutant]

I think Harley would be great to show, I would prefer showing her as a doctor in Arkham going to see Joker. As far as what Nolan has stated about never doing Robin, well I think he could do an amazing job with Robin, I like how he isn't going to ruin anything by making him a co-star. Let us see all these side characters, but don't add them permanently to the movies, and please Nolan....announce a third movie this is driving me insane!

I wouldn't mind seeing her as a doctor in Arkham either. However, I don't think they should use the Joker after Heath's death. And I think using Harley would be a good way to bridge the two films in reguards to the Joker.

[carabas]

I would love it if the movie ended with Bruce going to the circus to see the Flying Graysons. Just as nod.That would be a very cruel thing to do to whomever would be doing the fourth one. He'd be pretty much locked into doing aRobin film.

Best way to introduce Dick Grayson? Just have all three Flying Graysons plummet to their death in the first ten minutes. Let Bruce agonise over that.

[WorstThingUS]

ok so we all have agreed Robin wont work

I don't recall agreeing to that.

[RockinRobin182]

I think one of the main reasons why Robin is important is because he helps keep Batman sane (albeit, as close to sane as Batman can be). However, Nolan already said he didn't want to put Robin in, and I don't want him to be forced in and then undoubtedly messed up. Even though he's my favorite character, I'm not sure if I want to see him in a movie. He's a very difficult character to translate, and the whole movie would have to be devoted to him, it's too large for a sub plot. The best I can wish for is, as was mentioned before, Bruce says something that alludes to a brighter future right before he enters the circus. I was always thought of Nolan's films as the birth of Batman, and with the introduction of Robin, the dynamic of Batman changes. I think it would be a great segue, and might be best if left for the viewers imagination.

[Darthhobbit]

I wouldn't mind seeing her as a doctor in Arkham either. However, I don't think they should use the Joker after Heath's death. And I think using Harley would be a good way to bridge the two films in reguards to the Joker.

Oh yea, do not try to show Joker, maybe a cell with his name at most but with Heath's death leave Joker visually out. Plus I am pretty sure Nolan is iffy about a third because of heath's death and his inability to have Joker as a cameo villain

[NewMutant]

Oh yea, do not try to show Joker, maybe a cell with his name at most but with Heath's death leave Joker visually out. Plus I am pretty sure Nolan is iffy about a third because of heath's death and his inability to have Joker as a cameo villain

Yeah, they could always show his cell and use a recording of Heath's laugh or something. I think Harley would be perfect. And while I think she could be strong enough to be one of the main villians of the movie, Batman still has other great villians to use that would be strong, or at least less of a copycat. But with no love interest and it being the third movie, I really think Catwoman is the must character.

And yeah I don't think they've really done anything for the next movie. Its gonna be awhile.

[elbobbo]

ok so we all have agreed Robin wont work, and that Batman should not have a partner, but we also want to see dick grayson in one of the next films.

heres my suggestion

1. introduce Dick Grayson as a wealthy and Famous Gymnast/Acrobat who has recently moved to Gotham.

2. have him in his early 20's as in the comics right now.

3. have him become close friends or a rival of Bruce Wayne's

4. bypass Robin and introduce Nightwing as a RIVAL vigilante of batman who is working ot take down the mob. the costume is stealthier too.

that way we get the fanservice of having dick grayson, bypass robin, and set up a rival for batman.

thoughts?

Yeah let's let Christopher Nolan continue to sh*t all over everything Batman is about. He's already ruined Batman why not ruin Dick Grayson too right?

[elbobbo]

He makes top notch realism, because realism doesn't mean a realistic film, its a style.

But yeah, he's no scorsese. He is in the upper echelon of director's though.

I don't know how he can be in the "upper echelon" of directors with such a limited resume that contains only one good movie (Memento which is only good because it is gimmicky) and two pretty good movies (Batman Begins and Dark Knight) that shat all over the source material. The Prestige was garbage and Following was a basic first film.

As for realism, it is not recognized by any film experts as a movement or style, and is generally reagarded as being realistic in its portrayal of characters and events, none of which is true to Nolan's work.

[wounded_rebel]

I don't know how he can be in the "upper echelon" of directors with such a limited resume that contains only one good movie (Memento which is only good because it is gimmicky) and two pretty good movies (Batman Begins and Dark Knight) that shat all over the source material. The Prestige was garbage and Following was a basic first film.

As for realism, it is not recognized by any film experts as a movement or style, and is generally reagarded as being realistic in its portrayal of characters and events, none of which is true to Nolan's work.

Memento was a terrific movie, Prestige was also very good. Who are your favorite directors?

[Nate Grey]

ok so we all have agreed Robin wont work, and that Batman should not have a partner, but we also want to see dick grayson in one of the next films.

We=you, right?

I guess mentioning Dick in passing would be cool, like Bruce telling Alfred he got a letter from Dick saying he's enjoying boarding school or something. But otherwise, nah, I'd rather Nolan leave it the way it is, as in no Dick/Robin in the movies.

[gryhpon]

i would use jason todd instead.

[nepenthes]

I've always thought the third and final Nolan movie should portray the death of the Flying Graysons towards the end, with only an allusion to young Richards future career as Robin, and leave it at that. Show Bruce simply adopting him and leave the audience to ruminate about what that means on their own. Rest the franchise a few years, bring in a new director and cast and relaunch a retooled trilogy of films beginning with Robins year one.

I imagine this new set of films would have a slightly different, maybe wilder tone and feel, yet continue the story began in nolans films. It's a soft reboot. The new films would have Grayson as the main character with Bruce in the grizzeld old sensei type role. By the end of the trilogy he's gone out on his own as Nightwing and Jason is dead.

When the cycle begins again in yet a new set of films, they can start with the Lonely Place of Dying adaption, with Batman dark and alone. This is the blank slate, "square one" type position for the Batman franchise from which to introduce a Robin for a new generation. With Nightwing, Catwoman, dead Robin and an entire rogues gallery already well established in the background they can start making movies that really reflect the sagas in the comics, without having to backtrack, reboot or restablish.

I don't know how he can be in the "upper echelon" of directors with such a limited resume that contains only one good movie (Memento which is only good because it is gimmicky) and two pretty good movies (Batman Begins and Dark Knight) that shat all over the source material. The Prestige was garbage and Following was a basic first film.

As for realism, it is not recognized by any film experts as a movement or style, and is generally reagarded as being realistic in its portrayal of characters and events, none of which is true to Nolan's work.

If actors like Hillary Swank, Al Pacino, Leo DiCaprio, Christian Bale etc want to work with him, he has one of the highest grossing films of all time and overwhelmingly positive critical reviews for every one of his films (this is a fact, despite what you'd like us to believe) then chances are he's a very highly regarded director, if not in the upper echeleon as Joriss chooses to phrase it.

That the Batman movies were different from the source material is irrelevant. The aim is to make a successful adaption of the Batman core mythos for a new mainstream audience, not a motion picture fan service for comic book readers.

[nightwing45]

Do any of you have any clue how ridiculous the Batman and Robin partnership is when you take it out of the comic book context of flexible physics and place it in the movie context which relies heavier on realism?

The police would swarm Batman over child endangerment charges, he would constantly be harassed by parents groups. He would not be able to put a dent in the escalation that is happening in Gotham with a kid wearing a costume that says: "Shoot me, I'm a juvenile meat shield!"

Not only that, but Batman has intensive training, he's stronger, better conditioned, and highly experienced. While a sidekick would be very bright, faster, and more agile. They couldn't approach Batman in his physical capabilities. They'd be more a liability than an asset.

That is why Nolan put his foot down, and said No Robin. He realized it just wouldn't translate well.

And this comes from a fan who thinks Robin is an integral part of the Bat mythos.

[wounded_rebel]

Do any of you have any clue how ridiculous the Batman and Robin partnership is when you take it out of the comic book context of flexible physics and place it in the movie context which relies heavier on realism?

The police would swarm Batman over child endangerment charges, he would constantly be harassed by parents groups. He would not be able to put a dent in the escalation that is happening in Gotham with a kid wearing a costume that says: "Shoot me, I'm a juvenile meat shield!"

Not only that, but Batman has intensive training, he's stronger, better conditioned, and highly experienced. While a sidekick would be very bright, faster, and more agile. They couldn't approach Batman in his physical capabilities. They'd be more a liability than an asset.

That is why Nolan put his foot down, and said No Robin. He realized it just wouldn't translate well.

And this comes from a fan who thinks Robin is an integral part of the Bat mythos.

Well said, even though I would suggest that Batman would also easily hold the edge in speed over a kid sidekick...

[nepenthes]

Do any of you have any clue how ridiculous the Batman and Robin partnership is when you take it out of the comic book context of flexible physics and place it in the movie context which relies heavier on realism?

The police would swarm Batman over child endangerment charges, he would constantly be harassed by parents groups. He would not be able to put a dent in the escalation that is happening in Gotham with a kid wearing a costume that says: "Shoot me, I'm a juvenile meat shield!"

Not only that, but Batman has intensive training, he's stronger, better conditioned, and highly experienced. While a sidekick would be very bright, faster, and more agile. They couldn't approach Batman in his physical capabilities. They'd be more a liability than an asset.

That is why Nolan put his foot down, and said No Robin. He realized it just wouldn't translate well.

And this comes from a fan who thinks Robin is an integral part of the Bat mythos.

These are old, tired and irrevelant arguements. Of course we are aware. We also aware that a) these are superheroe movies b) there are interesting and practical ways around every perceived problem you've mentioned and c) the larger Batman story is a dead-end without Robin. He is inevitable if you want to continue developing interesting Batman stories. They will quickly become barren and boring without opening up the questions of legacy, relationships with both allies and family (of which Robin is both) and ultimately Bruces own mortality, all the things that as you say make him intregral to the Batman concept

Once you get past the colourful tights and gay jokes the Robin story is the most human and meangingful aspect of the Batman mythos - to dismiss it simply because of a few comic-to-film adaption hurdles is straight up illogical and against the interests of anyone trying to make box office from creative, interesting and succesfull Baman films

[numberONE]

For what it's worth, this is what I'd do...

After the opening fight scene of Batman 4, Alfred convinces Bruce to take a break and spend a few hours at the circus. At the circus, even Bruce is impressed by the Flying Graysons' act. Tragically, the night takes a turn for the worst when Ma and Pa Grayson plummet to their death.

Seeing Dick Grayson huddling over his parents, of course, effects Bruce greatly. He feels a need to help the boy. (Maybe he even feels guilty. Maybe his visit to the circus was more then pure entertainment? Maybe the Grayson's were connected to case Batman is investigating, and he knew that the Grayson's were in danger. But he didn't save them.)

Bruce takes the Grayson boy in, and promises him revenge. He doesn't tell him about that he is Batman, but eventually, at some point in the movie, Dick uncovers the truth. He asks Bruce to let him help, but Bruce says no.

Time passes. One night Dick manages to follow Batman downtown (maybe he put a tracking device on the Batmobile). Dick catches-up with Batman just in time to see him take on a group of criminals. Dick watches in awe, but then to his horror one of the thugs get a lucky shot in. Batman's in trouble! Dick jumps in and manages to distract the thugs long enough to regain the upper hand.

Back at the Bat cave, Dick thinks Bruce will finally agree to let him help Batman. But Bruce in still against it. However, Bruce can relate to Dick. The movie ends with Bruce starting Dick's training.

I think this is pretty realistic. Robin is everything to Batman he is in the comics, without having a boy fight crime. Dick may end-up fighting crime while he's still in his teens, but not before years of training and not before Bruce is sure he's ready, and he's old enough to truly understand, and make the choice for himself.

[carabas]

These are old, tired and irrevelant arguements.But that does not make them any less valid.

a) these are superheroe moviesSo? Star Wars movies are even less realistic, and see what putting a kid sidekick in the Phantom Menace did.

b) there are interesting and practical ways around very perceived problem you've mentionedAll of those that I have ever heard involve a Robin that is much, much older, and/or already a trained crimefighter when he first shows up. Both of which kinda defeats the point of doing a Robin story.

c) the larger Batman story is a dead-end without Robin. He is inevitable if you want to continue developing interesting Batman stories. They will quickly become barren and boring without opening up the questions of legacy, relationships with both allies and family (of which Robin is both) and ultimately Bruces own mortality, all the things that as you say make him intregral to the Batman conceptThis is completely baseless.

Perhaps there is some truth to it in comics, wher you have to bang out for to five Batman comics per month, and your character will be worn extremely thin in no time. But for a film every three or four years? They are not going to run out of interesting and meaningful non-Robin stories before Nolan dies of old age.

[Jorriss]

But that does not make them any less valid
Not all of them seem valid, such as the parents right groups, some are non issues or no issue at all, such as the police going after him and the difference in skill can feasibly be worked out.

[carabas]

Not all of them seem valid, such as the parents right groups, some are non issues or no issue at all, such as the police going after him and the difference in skill can feasibly be worked out.Eh, grown men gallivanting about with little boys is taken condsiderably more serious and frowned upon nowadays than back when robin was created.

Also, the Batman comics target audience back then, when Robin was created, was young kids. Nolan's target audience is pretty much everybody except young kids.

Edited to clarify the diferent audience point.

[wounded_rebel]

Eh, grown men gallivanting about with little boys is taken condsiderably more serious and frowned upon nowadays than back when robin was created.

Also, the Batman comics target audience was young kids. Nolan's target audience is pretty much everybody except young kids.

Guys, just as he said. Robin was created to make the comic appeal to kids. That 'helping Bruce keep his sanity/humanity' tag was added on later to make it plausible at a time when the comic became more 'serious'.
The movies are Nolan's interpretation of Batman in a realistic setting....and it is working (at least for most people). I am happy about it, because it demonstrates the versatility of the character. There are only a few characters you can take such a realistic take on without looking ridiculous and Batman is one of the,

[wounded_rebel]

b) there are interesting and practical ways around every perceived problem you've mentioned

could you elaborate on this? Which practical ways to work around this?

[carabas]

could you elaborate on this? Which practical ways to work around this?Making Robin a twenty-something piece of eye-candy, like was tried in Batman Forever and Batman And Robin.

[wounded_rebel]

Making Robin a twenty-something piece of eye-candy, like was tried in Batman Forever and Batman And Robin.

Yup and I hope they spare us that disaster.

[Vakanai]

He is inevitable if you want to continue developing interesting Batman stories. They will quickly become barren and boring without opening up the questions of legacy, relationships with both allies and family (of which Robin is both) and ultimately Bruces own mortality, all the things that as you say make him intregral to the Batman concept

Honestly, I don't see that as inevitable or the only way to open up such avenues. Batman has other allies and family (Alfred, kind of Fox), mortality can be handled surprisingly easy enough, and I've never been a fan of legacy and passing the torch stuff.
So Robin isn't neccesary to explore such themes, and I feel works best in comics and animation. You put him in live action and you may as well bring Adam West and Burt Ward back in.
In my opinion.

[nightwing45]

These are old, tired and irrevelant arguements. Of course we are aware. We also aware that a) these are superheroe movies b) there are interesting and practical ways around every perceived problem you've mentioned and c) the larger Batman story is a dead-end without Robin. He is inevitable if you want to continue developing interesting Batman stories. They will quickly become barren and boring without opening up the questions of legacy, relationships with both allies and family (of which Robin is both) and ultimately Bruces own mortality, all the things that as you say make him intregral to the Batman concept

Once you get past the colourful tights and gay jokes the Robin story is the most human and meangingful aspect of the Batman mythos - to dismiss it simply because of a few comic-to-film adaption hurdles is straight up illogical and against the interests of anyone trying to make box office from creative, interesting and succesfull Baman films


Batman already tried to pass on his legacy to Harvey Dent, a District Attorney who worked with in the system because he saw a man who could rise above the filth, and who didn't need the vigilantism to do good work. But, we all saw what happened - Joker destroyed Harvey, and Batman was forced to make him a martyr to save Dent's legacy and preserve all the good he did.

As Nolan has shown, Batman is like Julius Caesar – he is always thinking of the people 's best interests even if it means taking matters into his own hands, and becoming the enemy of the people.

With that in mind, he would not place a young charge in jeopardy because it would go against his populist beliefs. He would continue to bare most of the responsibility himself. Especially, taking in the mind of Rachel's death as well.

[jackdoe]

I don't know, the most logical way of introducing Dick Grayson would be introducing him as a child, having Bruce adopt him and guide him and then ending the movie twenty years later with Dick Grayson as Batman, skipping the Robin stage altogether. Because in the Nolan-verse, a fifty year old Batman will not fly.

I believe after all the death and misery in The Dark Knight, there must be some sort of hope and that could come in the introduction of Dick Grayson.

[marquise]

Bale said he wouldn't do a Batman film with Robin in it. Nolan I think made a similar point, although less bluntly.

Still, if the third movie is to be the last (of the Nolan/Bale run), there's no reason it shouldn't close with a scene showing Bruce arriving at the circus with a date. Then the camera zooms into a poster listing "The Flying Graysons" as the headline act, followed by fade-out. This would acknowledge Dick / Robin's entry into the Batverse without actually showing him.

[carabas]

Still, if the third movie is to be the last (of the Nolan/Bale run), there's no reason it shouldn't close with a scene showing Bruce arriving at the circus with a date. Then the camera zooms into a poster listing "The Flying Graysons" as the headline act, followed by fade-out. This would acknowledge Dick / Robin's entry into the Batverse without actually showing him.Except that this would be a horrible thing to do to whomever will be doing the next film, as he will be locked into the Robin story, which is not an enviable position to be in. Takin over from Nolan would be hard enough without that albatros around your neck.

[marquise]

Except that this would be a horrible thing to do to whomever will be doing the next film, as he will be locked into the Robin story, which is not an enviable position to be in. Takin over from Nolan would be hard enough without that albatros around your neck.

If there was to be a fourth film in the series then yes, this is true. I suppose I was thinking more along the lines of the third film being the last of a trilogy, rather than the third of a four-parter (quadrology?), leaving the way clear several years down the line for a complete reboot which may or may not include Robin, with a new director and cast. Or even no more films at all (though I can't see this happening as long as Batman remains popular).

[Darthhobbit]

I agree, have Dick Grayson mentioned but don;t add hmi to the movies unless you are skipping ahead and having him either as an older Robin or Nightwing(I pray to god my mind isnt messing with me and tellnig me Dick is Nightwing....pretty sure he is i'm too lazy to check). I just don't want them to introduce him and have another "badass" laundry scene....I still have nightmares!

[carabas]

If there was to be a fourth film in the series then yes, this is true. I suppose I was thinking more along the lines of the third film being the last of a trilogy, rather than the third of a four-parter (quadrology?), leaving the way clear several years down the line for a complete reboot which may or may not include Robin, with a new director and cast. Or even no more films at all (though I can't see this happening as long as Batman remains popular).
a) Hollywood just does notwork that way. Unles thy lose all or most of their recurring cast, they won't reboot.
b) It's be a bit cruel to all these Robin fans, tantalise them with such a cliffhanger endingn and never follow up on it.

[stewart48]

I would watch that. good idea.

However, I don't see why the 3rd movie couldn't end with the death of the Flying Graysons and Bruce Wayne taking in a young Richard Grayson. Especially if the 3rd movie really shows Bruce/Batman struggling to stay grounded (like the 2nd one started to show with the death of Rachel).

I could see a scenerio in the movies that mimic All-Star Batman to make it work.

[Uxas]

While I've never really been one of Robin's biggest fans (Grayson or otherwise), I still feel like he's integral to the Batman mythos. If you're going to do a series of movies, a tv-series etc. about Batman, the concept of Robin/ward/apprentice should at least be touched upon.