Sex Appeal from Marvel's Underage Mutants?

[DiamondHart]

I find it incredibly disturbing that Marvel feels the need to sex-out some of their underage mutants. It seems to have started with Kitty Pryde and her desire to give it up to Colossus when she was underage. It continued with Illyana in Inferno and the outfit she was given to wear, which of course picked back up with the outfit she was in during X-Infernus. I found it disgusting the number of butt shots and cleavage shots she was given in that book. The newest member in this boarderline-pedophilia group is Pixie. In a comic book given out during Free Comic Book day there she is playing baseball with a bunch of boys in a tight one piece swimsuit, it's disgusting to see an underage girl exemplified like that. The way she was drawn, the poses she was using, it was as if she was a swimsuit model who just happened to find her self in a baseball game. The images of sex reeked all over that book.

What do you think of this? Is this an issue that needs to be addressed? Does Marvel's sliding timeline make this a non issue? Should artists take into consideration the age of the character they are drawing when designing the outfit?

Please share with me your thoughts. I would provide pictures in this thread but given it's subject material I would think it was very hypocritical of me to do so.

[jarrod]

Where is Seres? I want Foxx scanz!

[darknessatnoon]

Please share with me your thoughts. I would provide pictures in this thread but given it's subject material I would think it was very hypocritical of me to do so.

I'm really impressed by your discretion.

[jarrod]

I miss Claremont. He was an equal opportunity pedophile.


http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w213/jarrodand/IMG_0001-1.jpg

[Seres]

I am more worried about Marvel trying to sexualise old, gross people.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5bcfpMCxb6I/SSRDgTLVVqI/AAAAAAAADS4/ePfdjJuMYkI/s1600/BirthofMagnetoUncannyX-Men304.jpg

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/5946/blackwombbk4.jpg

[Bolebeau]

Why is Doug worried about the tightness of his suit?

WHY is his suit so tight?

Claremont, such a perv.

I don't have any issues with the sex appeal of the underage mutants though. They're kind of in the superhero world, everyone there wears as little as possible.

[The Blinkmeister]

I am more worried about Marvel trying to sexualise old, gross people.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5bcfpMCxb6I/SSRDgTLVVqI/AAAAAAAADS4/ePfdjJuMYkI/s1600/BirthofMagnetoUncannyX-Men304.jpg

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/5946/blackwombbk4.jpg

Well, she used to be a looker more then 100 years ago :wink:

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/3015/gambitv313gambit1316kw9.jpg

[Omega Alpha]

We don't know if Illyana is underage or not at this point, time works differently in Limbo. She doesn't even know if she's legal or jailbait herself.

[lobsterj]

They're just drawings.

[Sgt. Preston]

Not sure if much of what pre teens are wearing nowadays is any better than what we see in comics. Look at how sexualized the teeny bopper celebs have been over the years (Britney Spears, Miley Cyrus, etc.).

I'd be more worried about the 13 year-old girl that's allowed to leave the house wearing short shorts with the word "juicy" on her butt than what Pixie or Illyana are wearing.

Besides the sexualization of Pixie seems to only be relevant to when Greg Land is drawing her.

[jarrod]

Not sure if much of what pre teens are wearing nowadays is any better than what we see in comics. Look at how sexualized the teeny bopper celebs have been over the years (Britney Spears, Miley Cyrus, etc.).

I'd be more worried about the 13 year-old girl that's allowed to leave the house wearing short shorts with the word "juicy" on her butt than what Pixie or Illyana are wearing.

Besides the sexualization of Pixie seems to only be relevant to when Greg Land is drawing her.
Pixie's only 14 btw. Illyana *should* be 15-16.

[Bolebeau]

Besides the sexualization of Pixie seems to only be relevant to when Greg Land is drawing her.

It's hard to keep things modest when you're tracing an adult DVD cover. I'd say he puts good effort into toning it down with her.

[DiamondHart]

They're just drawings.

There should be standards.

Not sure if much of what pre teens are wearing nowadays is any better than what we see in comics. Look at how sexualized the teeny bopper celebs have been over the years (Britney Spears, Miley Cyrus, etc.).

I'd be more worried about the 13 year-old girl that's allowed to leave the house wearing short shorts with the word "juicy" on her butt than what Pixie or Illyana are wearing.

Besides the sexualization of Pixie seems to only be relevant to when Greg Land is drawing her.

Is that suppose to make it ok? The sexualized teeny booper's are part of the problem here too, it's not ok, it's not right, it's disgusting.

[lockerogue]

I miss Claremont. He was an equal opportunity pedophile.


http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w213/jarrodand/IMG_0001-1.jpg

Dani was fierce in her one piece.

[DiamondHart]

I also would request no pictures of the subjects be posted here, especially of Illyana, her outfit is the most offensive.

[Agent_Torpor]

Where is Seres? I want Foxx scanz!

I had a collection of them on my prior laptop! :mad:

[Alex A Sanchez]

First off, I we need to remember that books like New Mutants had teenagers in mind as the target audience (as I'm pretty sure all of the x-student books do). Adolescence is primarily about exploring sexuality and relationships- so a book aimed at teenagers that doesn't address and reflect these issues will most surely miss the target audience.

Early episodes of Smallville, 90210, The O.C., etc. all played off this same issue and were filled with sexuality (not just girls, but guys too)- it was part of the draw and it gave them authenticity. Those shows were live action television show and no one had a problem. Yet, you are questioning an illustrated book?


I never even notice the things that you pointed out. Maybe it's because I have been reading comic since I was young and have come to expect that every female character will be drawn like a swimsuit model, just as every guy is drawn to look like a body builder. It's not a sexual thing- Psylock's outfit doesn't turn people on- it's just a drawing.


*Illyana's costume actually has a literary purpose and it needs to be sexual and disturbing because of what it represents.

[$5 Milkshake]

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7285/108393133123illyanarasp.jpg

[DiamondHart]

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7285/108393133123illyanarasp.jpg

I would love to see someone try and justify why that costume has to look like that.

[jarrod]

I would love to see someone try and justify why that costume has to look like that.
Well, it's a bathing suit.

[just another user]

I would love to see someone try and justify why that costume has to look like that.

Art Adams is not comparable to Greg Land

[Valeria Kementari]

Well you got your wish, they just dressed her up a little more

http://i.newsarama.com/images/MRV_NEWMUTprvwv1-6.jpg

still this one looks cooler :D

http://www.comiclist.com/media/blogs/news/X-Infernus_01_Cover.jpg

[Valeria Kementari]

I would love to see someone try and justify why that costume has to look like that.

She was on the beach, sunbathing when Amora the Enchantress kidnapped her and her friends, she was wearing a bathing suit, she added her partial soul-armor to protect herself, but at that moment it wasn't big enough to fully cover herself. New Mutants Special Edition #1 is the issue, a prelude to Uncanny X-Men Annual #9, one of the best X-Stories ever :D

[just another user]

I also would request no pictures of the subjects be posted here, especially of Illyana, her outfit is the most offensive.

Who could have known what would happen...

[Alex A Sanchez]

I would love to see someone try and justify why that costume has to look like that.

See the PM I sent you. I don't want to make the discussion in this thread depressing because it's taken a lighthearted turn.

[DiamondHart]

She was on the beach, sunbathing when Amora the Enchantress kidnapped her and her friends, she was wearing a bathing suit, she added her partial soul-armor to protect herself, but at that moment it wasn't big enough to fully cover herself. New Mutants Special Edition #1 is the issue, a prelude to Uncanny X-Men Annual #9, one of the best X-Stories ever :D

Yes she was just sunbathing on a beach in a skippy bikini, why does that even have to be part of the issue? Why can't she be at the mall in jeans and a sweatshirt? It's disgusting that writers think it's ok to put underage kids in these situations.

Belasco's abduction of Illyana and the blackening of her soul was a metaphorical molest. Kids become sexualized in a disturbing way after stuff like that happens, and having Illyana dress as an adult is scary yet amazingly effective way of illustrating this. It has to be reflecting in her appearance, because reflecting it into her actions would be far too much for a general audience book like NM. It's not supposed to gratify the audience, it's supposed to bother them.

The whole storyline has always made me uneasy and I'm a little surprised they are bringing it back. But from an artistic standpoint, I understand it.

That is the dumbest thing I've heard.

[darknessatnoon]

I would love to see someone try and justify why that costume has to look like that.

I was offended when this issue came out. Ilyanna porn is a consistent facet of her representation, like the time when she was four and an old alternate universe Storm (a sorceress) sponge bathed her a part of a Satanic spell-casting.

[$5 Milkshake]

Yes she was just sunbathing on a beach in a skippy bikini, why does that even have to be part of the issue? Why can't she be at the mall in jeans and a sweatshirt? It's disgusting that writers think it's ok to put underage kids in these situations.

No kidding. Teenagers in bikinis? Who's even HEARD of such a thing?

[darknessatnoon]

No kidding. Teenagers in bikinis? Who's even HEARD of such a thing?

That wasn't a bikini. That was underwear. She was at the beach in panties.

[Bolebeau]

Yes she was just sunbathing on a beach in a skippy bikini, why does that even have to be part of the issue? Why can't she be at the mall in jeans and a sweatshirt? It's disgusting that writers think it's ok to put underage kids in these situations.

Oh my god, she was on the beach in a bathing suit?! How could writers cross such uncrossable lines??

[Valeria Kementari]

Yes she was just sunbathing on a beach in a skippy bikini, why does that even have to be part of the issue? Why can't she be at the mall in jeans and a sweatshirt? It's disgusting that writers think it's ok to put underage kids in these situations.



a) they were on a small island in the middle of the mediterranean,
b) there isn't much to do on an island other than sunbathing or surfing
c) Dani used her powers to create a fake loch-ness-like monster for them to train
d) people go to the beach, they like it, specially children
e) it's a fraking comic book :D

[$5 Milkshake]

That wasn't a bikini. That was underwear. She was at the beach in panties.

You better not be adding DiamondHart to your Dr. Who and Wolvie list.

[darknessatnoon]

You better not be adding DiamondHart to your Dr. Who and Wolvie list.

DiamondHart isn't afraid to have unpopular opinions or to stand up to internet bullies like Joe Franklin.

[jester1436]

You better not be adding DiamondHart to your Dr. Who and Wolvie list.

I hate you for the mental gang bang in my head right now. :frown:

[jarrod]

That is the dumbest thing I've heard.
LOL

Alex's comment was probably the only "smart" thing said in this thread so far. Including the OP.

[ijffdrie]

i dont really have a problem with it, comic books were originally made for teenagers, and teenagers like seeing other teenagers.

[darknessatnoon]

i dont really have a problem with it, comic books were originally made for teenagers, and teenagers like seeing other teenagers.

But they are drawn by grown men who should be prosecuted.

[Hi-Fi]

Early episodes of Smallville, 90210, The O.C., etc. all played off this same issue and were filled with sexuality (not just girls, but guys too)- it was part of the draw and it gave them authenticity.
LOL. I WISH early New Mutants were more like The O.C.

[jarrod]

But they are drawn by grown men who should be prosecuted.
I am sure Art Adams had no choice in the matter. You know what it's like working under Christopher...

[Hi-Fi]

That wasn't a bikini. That was underwear. She was at the beach in panties.
They were in Rio. She was actually overdressed.

[ALEX-23]

I think it just boils down to sex sells! Always has, always will!

[ijffdrie]

But they are drawn by grown men who should be prosecuted.

so you're saying that if they got an underage artist it would be okay?
3 points:
1.: Lolicon itself isnt illegal, and drawing some short skirts isnt really that bad
2.: The veteran readers will continue reading, because they have for so long, what they need to do now is draw in a new, younger audience, and this is just one of the ways they do that (others being IE darker storylines, better artists)
3.: I dont see what is wrong with a sexually attractive 14 year old in the first place, if real 14 year old teens couldnt be sexy do you really think teen mothers would exist?

(this is coming from a 15 year old)

[just another user]

They were in Rio. She was actually overdressed.

Tell me about it... your facebook is filthy

[just another user]

so you're saying that if they got an underage artist it would be okay?
3 points:
1.: Lolicon itself isnt illegal, and drawing some short skirts isnt really that bad
2.: The veteran readers will continue reading, because they have for so long, what they need to do now is draw in a new, younger audience, and this is just one of the ways they do that (others being IE darker storylines, better artists)
3.: I dont see what is wrong with a sexually attractive 14 year old in the first place, if real 14 year old teens couldnt be sexy do you really think teen mothers would exist?

(this is coming from a 15 year old)

Stop, hold up, wait a minute...

Lolicon???

[darknessatnoon]

(this is coming from a 15 year old)

You are too young to be talking about this at all.

[$5 Milkshake]

3.: I dont see what is wrong with a sexually attractive 14 year old in the first place, if real 14 year old teens couldnt be sexy do you really think teen mothers would exist?

(this is coming from a 15 year old)

LMAO and where would we be without teen mothers!

[DiamondHart]

a) they were on a small island in the middle of the mediterranean,
b) there isn't much to do on an island other than sunbathing or surfing
c) Dani used her powers to create a fake loch-ness-like monster for them to train
d) people go to the beach, they like it, specially children
e) it's a fraking comic book :D

Dani should have used her power to create some clothes, she's an underage girl, she doesn't need to be drawn like that.

Yea it's a comic book, it's a comic book sold to children exploiting them in a sexual way, it's disgusting.

LOL

Alex's comment was probably the only "smart" thing said in this thread so far. Including the OP.

So you're own comments were dumb too then if I go by your logic.

I don't get why this is a big deal, why can't we just have underage kids covered up with a little more clothing, why are you people defending the sexualization of underage children?

[SayOcean]

LOL

Alex's comment was probably the only "smart" thing said in this thread so far. Including the OP.
yeah i was going to say the same thing about why illyana might dress a little less than whats needed....and to have people moan about what happened to her while she was in limbo....i mean she was under the teachings of the devil...whatd you expect her to be put through...sundrops and lollipops?

[DiamondHart]

yeah i was going to say the same thing about why illyana might dress a little less than whats needed....and to have people moan about what happened to her while she was in limbo....i mean she was under the teachings of the devil...whatd you expect her to be put through...sundrops and lollipops?

You are completely missing the point, I'm not talking about what the in-story reasons are for this. I'm asking why writers and artists feel the need to put these situations in.

[Hi-Fi]

Oh, they weren't in Rio in that panel? Then Illyana was not overdressed, just dressed as a normal teenager would.

[ijffdrie]

@darknessatnoon, how am i too young to talk about this all? my mind is as formed as that of an adult, and i am no idiot


@just another user, yes, i said lolicon, which is the correct term for drawn underage porn, and this isnt even close to that, so your claim that they should be in prison is incorrect

@$5milkshake, i am just saying that the comic does not neccesarily directly contradict the reality

[$5 Milkshake]

@$5milkshake, i am just saying that the comic does not neccesarily directly contradict the reality

True lol I think I misread your comment. I agree.

[SayOcean]

You are completely missing the point, I'm not talking about what the in-story reasons are for this. I'm asking why writers and artists feel the need to put these situations in.maybe their minds arent as dirty as yours....

[$5 Milkshake]

Oh, they weren't in Rio in that panel? Then Illyana was not overdressed, just dressed as a normal teenager would.

You Google Image search Rio, and you get GORGEOUS scenery, and lots of naked people.

[just another user]

@just another user, yes, i said lolicon, which is the correct term for drawn underage porn, and this isnt even close to that, so your claim that they should be in prison is incorrect

I have never heard that term before. lol internet. Btw, I don't think I said anything about prison, maybe that was somebody else?

[ijffdrie]

i think DiamondHart is overestimating the difference between an 18 year old and a 14 year old, it isnt like at 18 your head goes *pop* and you suddenly get the mind of an adult, people start behaving like, what society considers adult behavior, far earlier then they actually turn 18


@just another user, it wasnt directed at you, but since my english is pretty shoddy, so i tried to re-explain the entire sentence, just in case anyone didnt understand me the first time

[just another user]

You Google Image search Rio, and you get GORGEOUS scenery, and lots of naked people.

I google Imaged searched Rio and found naked Hi-Fi.

[$5 Milkshake]

I google Imaged searched Rio and found naked Hi-Fi.

He's the ambassador of nudity for Brazil.

[Hi-Fi]

I google Imaged searched Rio and found naked Hi-Fi.
Stop. Right now. Or link me.

[Joe Acro]

It seems to have started with Kitty Pryde and her desire to give it up to Colossus when she was underage.I don't really call that sex appeal. Maybe Kitty appealing for sex, but that's not really the same thing.

It continued with Illyana in Inferno and the outfit she was given to wear, which of course picked back up with the outfit she was in during X-Infernus. I found it disgusting the number of butt shots and cleavage shots she was given in that book.Not having read much New Mutants, I can't really comment on that latter comment.

I can say, however, that I don't see much wrong with the X-Infernus outfit. She was nearly covered head-to-toe in armor, with only her left thigh exposed.

The images of sex reeked all over that book.That's current-time Greg Land for you.

What do you think of this? Is this an issue that needs to be addressed?I don't think it's really happened enough to be an issue. One or two artists here or there, not a problem. They can be called out or avoided. If it were widespread, however, then I think we'd have an issue.

Does Marvel's sliding timeline make this a non issue?Not at all. In fact, it'd likely make matters worse, since the characters are younger for longer.

Should artists take into consideration the age of the character they are drawing when designing the outfit?Yes.

That wasn't a bikini. That was underwear. She was at the beach in panties.Perhaps tanning at the beach?

[jarrod]

So you're own comments were dumb too then if I go by your logic.
Um, hello?

This thread needz more scanz...

[just another user]

Stop. Right now. Or link me.

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/6317/hottuu2.png

[Sgt. Preston]

It's hard to keep things modest when you're tracing an adult DVD cover. I'd say he puts good effort into toning it down with her.

Good point. Land at least draws Pixie with a C cup.......

[Hi-Fi]

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/6317/hottuu2.png
I hate you.

[Sgt. Preston]

There should be standards.



Is that suppose to make it ok? The sexualized teeny booper's are part of the problem here too, it's not ok, it's not right, it's disgusting.

No, doesn't make it okay. Just making the point that the problem reaches far beyond comics and that what parents allow their kids to wear in real life only excerbates what is seen in the media.

[jarrod]

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/6317/hottuu2.png
*ejaculates*


I hate you.
*twice*

[Hi-Fi]

*ejaculates*



*twice*
That dude is like a second-rate Hi-Fi.

[jarrod]

That dude is like a second-rate Hi-Fi.
I'll take what I can get. You've been giving me the brush off for years.

[$5 Milkshake]

I hate you.

Lmao

The pictures, they haunt you.

[just another user]

That dude is like a second-rate Hi-Fi.

you should link us to the first-rate then

[jester1436]

http://i41.tinypic.com/2q809r8.jpg

[Waterlily]

Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashcroft_v._Free_Speech_Coalition)

This (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/87960-Simpsons-Sex-Scandal) may not be relevant to the arguement, but it's the first thing that came to mind.

I agree with the sentiment that artisits should keep the age of the characters in mind when they are drawing them.

[ijffdrie]

of course they should keep their age in mind, but not more then in reality, probably a little less. What people tend to not understand is that someone who is 13 or 14 usually conciders her/himself grown-up and want to dress accordingly, and, in many cases, are allowed to because it doesnt harm anyone. Why should teenage comic characters wear less revealing cloths then real-life characters?

[Bronze Badger]

I had a collection of them on my prior laptop! :mad:

Until the feds seized them. :biggrin:

[Zel]

What do you think of this? Is this an issue that needs to be addressed? Does Marvel's sliding timeline make this a non issue? Should artists take into consideration the age of the character they are drawing when designing the outfit?

Please share with me your thoughts. I would provide pictures in this thread but given it's subject material I would think it was very hypocritical of me to do so.

Marvel's representations are fine and you're overreacting. You seem to be the sort that wants married couples on tv to sleep in separate beds and other repressed sorts of things like that. There must be a cable channel out there with nothing but 50s sitcoms that offer a fantasy view of life where things like sex don't exist for you to watch.

All your "they're underage" hysterics fall on deaf ears in my case and hopefully Marvel and the rest of industry as well. Teenage sexuality just freaks the hell out of some old fogeys, but it's a part of life. Their hormones are on, they're developing curves, etc. Deal with it in a way that doesn't try to whitewash it out of existence.

[Affinity]

God, who wears a sweatshirt and jeans to the mall?

[jester1436]

God, who wears a sweatshirt and jeans to the mall?

A girl who has given up on life.

[just another user]

God, who wears a sweatshirt and jeans to the mall?

I know. Surely everybody realises that teenagers wear cardigans.

[Waterlily]

God, who wears a sweatshirt and jeans to the mall?

I would

A girl who has given up on life.

:frown:

[SayOcean]

I know. Surely everybody realises that teenagers wear cardigans.uhhhh i wear cardigans....with pockets

[justinkos91]

God, who wears a sweatshirt and jeans to the mall?

*slowly raises hand*

[$5 Milkshake]

Current mall fashion:

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/9929/2280999sexyoutfitsexyub.jpg

[Affinity]

LOL.

I, too, wish Illyana had been taken at the mall and not the beach. But, she should be wearing her bikini, regardless.

[Joe Acro]

Current mall fashion:
Maybe if it's raining.

[Prodigy55]

I knit my OWN sweaters to wear to the mall, but I only go once a year because the wagon ride is long :(

[wolvie616]

*slowly raises hand*

*sends an army of guys in sweters and jeans to back justin up*

[Waterlily]

of course they should keep their age in mind, but not more then in reality, probably a little less. What people tend to not understand is that someone who is 13 or 14 usually conciders her/himself grown-up and want to dress accordingly, and, in many cases, are allowed to because it doesnt harm anyone. Why should teenage comic characters wear less revealing cloths then real-life characters?

Remembering what my friends and I use to wear at that age, yeah. My friend, at 15, had D cups and would wear a bikini. My sister was well-endowed at a younger age and she would sneak out in some racy/revealing outfits.

LOL.

I, too, wish Illyana had been taken at the mall and not the beach. But, she should be wearing her bikini, regardless.

You should draw this.


There was something I was wondering. Since the Cuckoos are aged clones, only 2/3 years old, does this mean they have to wait well past the time where they appear to be 18 to get a little somethinsomethin? Do they have to wait until they are truly 18 years old, or until they appear to be 18?

[The Black Guardian]

I'm disturbed by people who are disturbed by showing underage sex appeal. It's reality, people. Get with the program and stop being pervy.

[jeannie]

I am disturbed by complaints about sexy, underaged characters in comics by an individual with a young Emma Frost avatar. This does not compute.

[DiamondHart]

Marvel's representations are fine and you're overreacting. You seem to be the sort that wants married couples on tv to sleep in separate beds and other repressed sorts of things like that. There must be a cable channel out there with nothing but 50s sitcoms that offer a fantasy view of life where things like sex don't exist for you to watch.

All your "they're underage" hysterics fall on deaf ears in my case and hopefully Marvel and the rest of industry as well. Teenage sexuality just freaks the hell out of some old fogeys, but it's a part of life. Their hormones are on, they're developing curves, etc. Deal with it in a way that doesn't try to whitewash it out of existence.

Forgive me for wanting to have standards for not wanting to see 12-14years old like Illyana parading around in a bra and panties. I'm not overreacting at all, there should be standards, if we, as a society, deem anyone under 18 as a minor then we should treat them as such. Maybe you like to look at scantily clad underage boys and girls but I don't.

[yanapryde]

Forgive me for wanting to have standards for not wanting to see 12-14years old like Illyana parading around in a bra and panties. I'm not overreacting at all, there should be standards, if we, as a society, deem anyone under 18 as a minor then we should treat them as such. Maybe you like to look at scantily clad underage boys and girls but I don't.

They're in bathing suits.
They're in appropriate attire for swimming.
If you don't like looking, then stop looking.

[lockerogue]

I knit my OWN sweaters to wear to the mall, but I only go once a year because the wagon ride is long :(

You poor soul.

[yanapryde]

And for the record, I hardly believe that the majority of readers, male or female, page through these WONDERFUL stories that depict our favorite characters enjoying some 'off time' at the beach as sexy.

If anything, I'd argue the one crying outrage is the one with the problem.

[DiamondHart]

And for the record, I hardly believe that the majority of readers, male or female, page through these WONDERFUL stories that depict our favorite characters enjoying some 'off time' at the beach as sexy.

If anything, I'd argue the one crying outrage is the one with the problem.

Yes, lets blame the person who is trying to put some decency in comic book outfits for the underage characters. I would say the one with the problem is the pedophiles who are Illyana fans, you people are disgusting. I can't believe there is actually a problem with wanting them to put on more clothes.

[justinkos91]

Maybe you like to look at scantily clad underage boys and girls but I don't.

It's not like people jerk off to them

[SayOcean]

Yes, lets blame the person who is trying to put some decency in comic book outfits for the underage characters. I would say the one with the problem is the pedophiles who are Illyana fans, you people are disgusting. I can't believe there is actually a problem with wanting them to put on more clothes.you're about to break the forum in half

[just another user]

It's not like people jerk off to them

Speak for yourself I don't either btw

[yanapryde]

Yes, lets blame the person who is trying to put some decency in comic book outfits for the underage characters. I would say the one with the problem is the pedophiles who are Illyana fans, you people are disgusting. I can't believe there is actually a problem with wanting them to put on more clothes.

I take personal offense to that comment about Illyana fans.
As if to imply that our adoration for her is based on how much skin she exposes?
Thats ridiculous.

Also, do you expect a 15 yr old girl to sport a wet suit while at the beach with her friends? And whats the double standard?
The boys wore shorts and/or speedos. If you're going to argue OUTFITS in comic books, then argue the ones that don't make sense.
Psylocke for example wears a unitard and arms/leg sleeves that serve no purpose and are torn. TORN. That outfit makes no sense.

So again, I hardly believe that teenagers in bathing suits classifies as comic book outfits and their skin exposure or lack thereof is hardly called into question or glorified.

[DiamondHart]

I take personal offense to that comment about Illyana fans.
As if to imply that our adoration for her is based on how much skin she exposes?
Thats ridiculous.

Also, do you expect a 15 yr old girl to sport a wet suit while at the beach with her friends? And whats the double standard?
The boys wore shorts and/or speedos. If you're going to argue OUTFITS in comic books, then argue the ones that don't make sense.
Psylocke for example wears a unitard and arms/leg sleeves that serve no purpose and are torn. TORN. That outfit makes no sense.

So again, I hardly believe that teenagers in bathing suits classifies as comic book outfits and their skin exposure or lack thereof is hardly called into question or glorified.

You take offense? Maybe you should have thought about that before you started to insult me, I tried to bring up a topic I thought was an issue and instead I get insulted.

If it's not about the outfit and the amount of skin she is exposing then why are you objecting so much to the idea of her in a more age appropriate outfit?

The outfit for Psylocke doesn't make sense, but she's over 18, she's not a minor. I don't see how this is so hard for you to understand.

[lockerogue]

Diamondhart what would you believe Illyana should have worn to the beach?

[yanapryde]

You take offense? Maybe you should have thought about that before you started to insult me, I tried to bring up a topic I thought was an issue and instead I get insulted.

If it's not about the outfit and the amount of skin she is exposing then why are you objecting so much to the idea of her in a more age appropriate outfit?

The outfit for Psylocke doesn't make sense, but she's over 18, she's not a minor. I don't see how this is so hard for you to understand.

My argument is simple.
The teenagers are alone on a secluded beach enjoying a day to themselves.

You disapprove of readers viewing them in bathing suits.
To say their attire is inappropriate makes little sense.

And I apologize for offending you.

[DiamondHart]

Diamondhart what would you believe Illyana should have worn to the beach?

I don't believe the situation should have been written at all, if she must go then a one piece would have been ok, or a modest tube top with a normal bottom.

[DiamondHart]

My argument is simple.
The teenagers are alone on a secluded beach enjoying a day to themselves.

You disapprove of readers viewing them in bathing suits.
To say their attire is inappropriate makes little sense.

And I apologize for offending you.

My argument again isn't the in story reason for the outfit, I want to simply understand why writers and artists feel the need to put them in these situations, why do we need to sexualize underage characters.

[darknessatnoon]

My argument again isn't the in story reason for the outfit, I want to simply understand why writers and artists feel the need to put them in these situations, why do we need to sexualize underage characters.

People on this forum have a hard time looking at comics from the point of view where storytelling choices are made. Please excuse their literalism and try not to let the fan crazies get you down.

[SayOcean]

I don't believe the situation should have been written at all, if she must go then a one piece would have been ok, or a modest tube top with a normal bottom.
what kinda lame ass troll girl goes to the beach in that????lol have you ever been on spring break?? i mean hell even big girls wear less than that....not that im saying they shouldnt if they are proud of their bodies then why not let them show it off....damn sometimes people are scury

and i took offense to the magik fans being pedo post as well, I mean illyana could show up in comic naked and i would probably barely notice it

[yanapryde]

My argument again isn't the in story reason for the outfit, I want to simply understand why writers and artists feel the need to put them in these situations, why do we need to sexualize underage characters.

Okay I quit.
This is just ridiculous.

[DiamondHart]

what kinda lame ass troll girl goes to the beach in that????lol have you ever been on spring break?? i mean hell even big girls wear less than that....not that im saying they shouldnt if they are proud of their bodies then why not let them show it off....damn sometimes people are scury

and i took offense to the magik fans being pedo post as well, I mean illyana could show up in comic naked and i would probably barely notice it

I didn't realize it was important for a 13 year old girl to be considered sexy.

[darknessatnoon]

Okay I quit.
This is just ridiculous.

Please do. I think we've heard enough outrage from the Magik trolls.

[justinkos91]

Society now is different from the '50s.

[DiamondHart]

People on this forum have a hard time looking at comics from the point of view where storytelling choices are made. Please excuse their literalism and try not to let the fan crazies get you down.

Thank you!

[Agent_Torpor]

A girl who has given up on life.

Fuck yes, best post of the thread bar none. And well played, sir.

[DiamondHart]

Society now is different from the '50s

And look what we've grown to accept in this society, Britney Spears, Miley Cyrus, the whore in the High School Musical movies who sends naked photo's to her boyfriend, it's disgusting. Why should we lower standards for what is acceptable?

[Waterlily]

I didn't realize it was important for a 13 year old girl to be considered sexy.

Oh, it gets even worse (http://weirdnews.about.com/od/weirdphotos/ig/Strange-New-Products.-0F7/Elllos-Baby-Bikini.htm) than that.

[Jake V]

My argument again isn't the in story reason for the outfit, I want to simply understand why writers and artists feel the need to put them in these situations, why do we need to sexualize underage characters.

Because slumber parties, texting, Hannah Montana concerts, and other normal 13 year old girl behavior wouldn't make for an interesting comic book.

[justinkos91]

And look what we've grown to accept in this society, Britney Spears, Miley Cyrus, the whore in the High School Musical movies who sends naked photo's to her boyfriend, it's disgusting. Why should we lower standards for what is acceptable?

Good point, It's so common to see this now, It's hard to feel offended when it's a norm
I see where you're coming from on a few points though

[DiamondHart]

Because slumber parties, texting, Hannah Montana concerts, and other normal 13 year old girl behavior wouldn't make for an interesting comic book.

I'm just asking for acceptable clothing, modest outfits for young, underage children.

[Jake V]

I'm just asking for acceptable clothing, modest outfits for young, underage children.

First, you'll have to change reality, then comic books will follow.

[darknessatnoon]

I'm just asking for acceptable clothing, modest outfits for young, underage children.

It's not like Jake has to risk being ogled and pinched every time he goes out because of a whole generation of loser men who have grown up masturbating to girls in skimpy outfits.

[darknessatnoon]

First, you'll have to change reality, then comic books will follow.

If you break all the eggs, there will be no chickens.

[Prodigy55]

I'd like all comic book characters, no matter what age, to wear the latest trends. I don't care if they are "skimpy" or "conservative", it just has to work.

[Jake V]

It's not like Jake has to risk being ogled and pinched every time he goes out because of a whole generation of loser men who have grown up masturbating to girls in skimpy outfits.

You know so little of my life!

[darknessatnoon]

You know so little of my life!

I apologize if I hit a raw nerve.

[Waterlily]

If you break all the eggs, there will be no chickens.

If you break all the eggs, the chickens will perfect cloning.

[darknessatnoon]

If you break all the eggs, the chickens will perfect cloning.

Save it for the lesbian thread.

[SayOcean]

Please do. I think we've heard enough outrage from the Magik trolls. To bad, and I think if you find a 13 year old girl sexy her putting on a sweater is gonna stop you from thinking naughty thoughts, who the hell is offended by britney spears and Miley Cyrus.....really MILEY CYRUS...you people crack me up

[$5 Milkshake]

And look what we've grown to accept in this society, Britney Spears, Miley Cyrus, the whore in the High School Musical movies who sends naked photo's to her boyfriend, it's disgusting. Why should we lower standards for what is acceptable?

Somebody who sends a nude photo to their boyfriend is a whore?

[DeniseXfrost]

To bad, and I think if you find a 13 year old girl sexy her putting on a sweater is gonna stop you from thinking naughty thoughts, who the hell is offended by britney spears and Miley Cyrus.....really MILEY CYRUS...you people crack me up
I am deeply offended by Miley Cyrus. Bitch should get hit by a bus.

[SayOcean]

Somebody who sends a nude photo to their boyfriend is a whore?
i know right.....sounds a little judgmental to me

[ALEX-23]

Somebody who sends a nude photo to their boyfriend is a whore?

The only thing bad about that is when the boyfriend posts them on the internet!

[just another user]

Somebody who sends a nude photo to their boyfriend is a whore?

$5 Milkshake, you know I like you, but stop putting stuff in her mouth.

She didn't use the word "whore" to refer to somebody sending pictures to their boyfriend, she just called her a whore maybe for other reasons

I can see Diamondheart's POV.

i know right.....sounds a little judgmental to me

Yeah, that isn't what she posted, though.

[Sunbird]

the whore in the High School Musical movies who sends naked photo's to her boyfriend, it's disgusting. Why should we lower standards for what is acceptable?Vanessa Hudgens was not a minor when it happened. Do I need to drag Ric Romero over from Fark.com?

http://p-userpic.livejournal.com/43353253/2497543
People in consensual relationships do things together without wearing clothes. More at 11.

[$5 Milkshake]

$5 Milkshake, you know I like you, but stop putting stuff in her mouth.

She didn't use the word "whore"

I can see Diamondheart's POV.



Yeah, that isn't what she posted, though.

Oh, I'm not putting anything in her mouth. And I bet Im not the first to say that.

[Jake V]

Oh, I'm not putting anything in her mouth. And I bet Im not the first to say that.

She puts enough in her own mouth as it is.

[Agent_Torpor]

i know right.....sounds a little judgmental to me

This whole thread is judgemental to the core - and more than a little unnervingly, morally fascist.

[DiamondHart]

She puts enough in her own mouth as it is.

It's bully's like you and the others in here that I have self esteem problems. I'm sad because I'm fat, I'm fat because I eat all the time, I eat all the time because I'm sad. I just wanted to try and strive for higher standards with the underage characters but I can see I'm just old fashioned. I'm going to go now, it's dinner time and my pizza is here.

[wolvie616]

this thread hurts my head

[alf_to_the_rescue]

this thread hurts my head

Thats cause it deals with issues above it. Don't fight it, one day, you may, we can hope, understand.

[Jake V]

It's bully's like you and the others in here that I have self esteem problems. I'm sad because I'm fat, I'm fat because I eat all the time, I eat all the time because I'm sad. I just wanted to try and strive for higher standards with the underage characters but I can see I'm just old fashioned. I'm going to go now, it's dinner time and my pizza is here.

Meat lovers, right?

[Raptor]

First of all, I think a lot of scoieties morals and nrms are pointless. Who cares if you see kids or teenagers scanily clad or naked?

If you feel guilty for looking dont. If it turns you on, maybe thats your problem?

For a long time people married at age 15 or younger, just because that isnt the social norm anymore doesn't mean it never was. It doesnt mean that was wrong.

I think pedophilia should be a offense fit for the death penalty. However, when its consensual or between young people who the fuck cares?

I think pushing morals onto/into comic books is a shame, legislating morality shouldn't be done.

What you, Diamondhart, are doing is simply pushing your opinion that it is wrong, or sick or disgusting. I don't care. Most don't care. Those who do care, really shouldn';t in my opinion, but I won't push that. Think as you will...don't force it on me or what i read.

It isn't hurting anything.


And look what we've grown to accept in this society, Britney Spears, Miley Cyrus, the whore in the High School Musical movies who sends naked photo's to her boyfriend, it's disgusting. Why should we lower standards for what is acceptable?

Because we raised our standards too high in the first place.

It isn't our business what they do in private. If you don't like it, tough shit.
Write your congressman if ya want laws changed, don't whine about comics or celebrity sex lives.

Good point, It's so common to see this now, It's hard to feel offended when it's a norm
I see where you're coming from on a few points though

No it really isn't a good point, it isn't a norm everywhere.

Its hte writers art/story...don't like it? there's an easy answer: don't read it.

It isn't really hurting anything. If it appeals to little 12-15 year old teenagers to see that drawn that way; great...bet it helps sell comics.

Keep your morals to yourself if you don't mind.

Its not like they depict rape, murder, or stealing. Even if they did, it's likely cast in a negative light nad the moral is the bad guys stop this.

In the cases where they do glamourize sexy teenagers, I really have no issue with it. They aren't saying please go molest teengagers.

If that's what you read into it, thats you.

[$5 Milkshake]

It's bully's like you and the others in here that I have self esteem problems. I'm sad because I'm fat, I'm fat because I eat all the time, I eat all the time because I'm sad. I just wanted to try and strive for higher standards with the underage characters but I can see I'm just old fashioned. I'm going to go now, it's dinner time and my pizza is here.

Its not a weight issue. Its a personality thing.

[marvell2100]

This is soooooooo much better than the shows on the CW. Can we get a teaser for next weeks' show in here?

[Sighphi]

X-23 is haaaaawwtttt

[The Blinkmeister]

And look what we've grown to accept in this society, Britney Spears, Miley Cyrus, the whore in the High School Musical movies who sends naked photo's to her boyfriend, it's disgusting. Why should we lower standards for what is acceptable?

Vanessa Hudgens is the perfect choice to play Ilyana in a New Mutants movie :cool:

[justinkos91]

Vanessa Hudgens is the perfect choice to play Ilyana in a New Mutants movie :cool:

She's not blonde and wouldn't look good blonde

[Washout]

She's not blonde and wouldn't look good blonde

Someone should have told that to the Fantastic Four movie people. . .

I think this thread is sad. I'm all for looking at things morally, but the name calling and such is really putting a hypocritical damper on a thread that could have some interesting thoughts.

Altogether, I'm not offended by underage kids in skimpy outfits, as long as it is appropriate for the situation. They aren't real people. No one is being exploited or hurt by it. It is realistic if anything.

[AcesX1X]

leave it to a crowd of 99% age 18+ comic book lovers to savagely defend the sexualization of underage girls. it seems on that, at least, everyone agrees is taking place.

diamondhart was just expressing her opinion. i think she's touched a nerve considering this thread has exploded over 10 pages in a matter of hours.

i don't know what my opinion is on the matter of the OP, but i am very concerned at the reactions i've seen towards the topic so far today.

[Seikun21]

I am deeply offended by Miley Cyrus. Bitch should get hit by a bus.

Several buses. How did her movie make so much money?

I've lost all hope for the next generation.

[ALEX-23]

leave it to a crowd of 99% age 18+ comic book lovers to savagely defend the sexualization of underage girls. it seems on that, at least, everyone agrees is taking place.

diamondhart was just expressing her opinion. i think she's touched a nerve considering this thread has exploded over 10 pages in a matter of hours.

i don't know what my opinion is on the matter of the OP, but i am very concerned at the reactions i've seen towards the topic so far today.

I just don't see the need to get all up in arms about fictional people.

[$5 Milkshake]

leave it to a crowd of 99% age 18+ comic book lovers to savagely defend the sexualization of underage girls. it seems on that, at least, everyone agrees is taking place.

diamondhart was just expressing her opinion. i think she's touched a nerve considering this thread has exploded over 10 pages in a matter of hours.

i don't know what my opinion is on the matter of the OP, but i am very concerned at the reactions i've seen towards the topic so far today.

Sexual repression is at the heart of a lot of serious problems, and the OP sounds like the kind of person who throws bibles at girls and calls them whores for wearing a low cut shirt in public. I believe THAT'S what hit a nerve.

[AcesX1X]

Sexual repression is at the heart of a lot of serious problems, and the OP sounds like the kind of person who throws bibles at girls and calls them whores for wearing a low cut shirt in public. I believe THAT'S what hit a nerve.

maybe.

i can't read everyone's minds. i can just make observations based on what they post.

i haven't seen a single person deny that underage comic girls are depicted in sexual situations often. that much is fact.

[DiamondHart]

Sexual repression is at the heart of a lot of serious problems, and the OP sounds like the kind of person who throws bibles at girls and calls them whores for wearing a low cut shirt in public. I believe THAT'S what hit a nerve.

So I can't have higher standards then the gutter ones society deems acceptable without being a Bible thumper?

[Agent_Torpor]

Several buses. How did her movie make so much money?

I've lost all hope for the next generation.

I was thoroughly entertained by the Hannah Montana movie.

[Agent_Torpor]

So I can't have higher standards then the gutter ones society deems acceptable without being a Bible thumper?


Unless you're wearing these, you're all godless heathens that will burn for your fornications:

http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/ap_zion_ranch_080417_mn.jpg

[XaviersMisprint]

i think illyana is hot. so what? she would love to take me on a date, make use of me and throw me away for a new one, and i would be fine with it.

BUT i am 17 years old so i guess i'm alright!


and 'berto is sort of cute if you look at him the right way.... mmm and cannonballs.


elixir catches my eye occasionally. i beat off to new x-men every issue.

hopefully you catch my witless sarcasm. if it is story-based, sure....

if anything, i get angry if the stories drift too far from reality. i used to ask myself "wait, when do the x-men eat? or go to the bathroom? sleep? have sex? watch television (that isn't plot-based like the news or speeches by anti-mutant bigots)"

so i like when it shows them at the beach, the mall, showering, sleeping, wearing a little less than normal. as long as they aren't having uncensored sex in the books, i'm fine. if it was pornography i'd be disappointed. but it isn't inappropriate to have them wear bathing suits at the beach. its honest. don't dress them in sweaters or long skirts at the beach if its not in-character. if we're talking about rahne, then fine. she can cover up. but illyana would not wear that.

[DiamondHart]

Unless you're wearing these, you're all godless heathens that will burn for your fornications:

http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/ap_zion_ranch_080417_mn.jpg

That is an extreme, I am nothing like that.

[Sighphi]

And look what we've grown to accept in this society, Britney Spears, Miley Cyrus, the whore in the High School Musical movies who sends naked photo's to her boyfriend, it's disgusting. Why should we lower standards for what is acceptable?

It's disgusting to send naughty pics of yourself to your mate?

[Jake V]

So I can't have higher standards then the gutter ones society deems acceptable without being a Bible thumper?

Lets not pretend that you don't stuff yourself into a belly shirt like Pizza Hut stuffs cheese in a crust when you think nobody's looking.

[DiamondHart]

Lets not pretend that you don't stuff yourself into a belly shirt like Pizza Hut stuffs cheese in a crust when you think nobody's looking.

I am over the age of 18, an age the law deems acceptable for such perverse acts.

[skatalite]

I just pretend Emma is 14, then all is right with the world.

[$5 Milkshake]

So I can't have higher standards then the gutter ones society deems acceptable without being a Bible thumper?

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3586/envyashx.jpg

[lockerogue]

I saw we take a field trip to a high school dance.

[DiamondHart]

I hope all those girls are over 18 otherwise you are a sick person.

[Jake V]

I hope all those girls are over 18 otherwise you are a sick person.

I hope you always keep that coat on.

[just another user]

I hope all those girls are over 18 otherwise you are a sick person.

Hi Diamondheart, fyi in the UK and in Europe you can marry and have sex at 16. I think it's even younger in Holland. However I agree with you that comics are creepy and wrong.

[Agent_Torpor]

Hi Diamondheart, fyi in the UK and in Europe you can marry and have sex at 16. I think it's even younger in Holland. However I agree with you that comics are creepy and wrong.

Why am I not surprised? What a cradle of filth. :D

[Washout]

The age of consent in US and Canada isn't even 18 everywhere. In my state, it is 16.

[Sunbird]

Hi Diamondheart, fyi in the UK and in Europe you can marry and have sex at 16. I think it's even younger in Holland. However I agree with you that comics are creepy and wrong.Not really related to anything, but the UK is in Europe. I'm always amused when people (usually from the UK) list them like they are separate (California and the US)...

As for the age of consent, it varies from country to country and even state to state. Here is a map from the dispensers of all kinds of useful info, Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Age_of_Consent.png

Interestingly 16 seems to be the norm in the South of the US, which is traditionally more religious.

[$5 Milkshake]

Interestingly 16 seems to be the norm in the South of the US, which is traditionally more religious.

How surprising.

[Raptor]

I guess only people in America should read comics and only American values and norms are right :rolleyes:

Diamondhart sounds like the kind of person who would want an 18 year old (senior in high school) to go to jail for dating and sleeping with a younger mate 17-14 also in the same high school.

oh teh noes! Teenagers have sex with teenagers!

THE END IS NIGH!

[DiamondHart]

I guess only people in America should read comics and only American values and norms are right :rolleyes:

Diamondhart sounds like the kind of person who would want an 18 year old (senior in high school) to go to jail for dating and sleeping with a younger mate 17-14 also in the same high school.

oh teh noes! Teenagers have sex with teenagers!

THE END IS NIGH!

You make a lot of assumptions. You people make it out to be a bad thing that underage children should wear appropriate clothing. I don't know why Illyana fans enjoy seeing their character sexualized like this or why Kitty fans are ok with her throwing her snatch at Colossus when she's 15. No one seems to care that Pixie plays baseball in a swimsuit in freaking Wales of all places.

[Raptor]

You make a lot of assumptions. You people make it out to be a bad thing that underage children should wear appropriate clothing. I don't know why Illyana fans enjoy seeing their character sexualized like this or why Kitty fans are ok with her throwing her snatch at Colossus when she's 15. No one seems to care that Pixie plays baseball in a swimsuit in freaking Wales of all places.

No I just dont give a shit.

There's a big difference.

I care about important things.

Worrying about what a young FICTIONAL character wears is sort of sad.

[Sunbird]

You make a lot of assumptions. You people make it out to be a bad thing that underage children should wear appropriate clothing. I don't know why Illyana fans enjoy seeing their character sexualized like this or why Kitty fans are ok with her throwing her snatch at Colossus when she's 15. No one seems to care that Pixie plays baseball in a swimsuit in freaking Wales of all places.Getting overly wrought about this isn't particularly helpful for the cause of protecting children (which is the usuall and more important reason to care about this). But, in no particular order, I have no recollection of Kitty's behaviour being written as anything other than younger girl has massive crush on older guy (to describe it as you do is a massive distortion of what happened - I mean, they didn't actually do anything until Astonishing - both grown up) - and the Pixie thing, well, Greg Land is a hack who everyone knows uses porno or suchlike and probably shouldn't be allowed to draw minors anymore than he should be allowed to draw anyone else. But she was playing the game in the US and describing it back in Wales. The Welsh don't play baseball, they play manly games like Rugby.

[DiamondHart]

No I just dont give a shit.

There's a big difference.

I care about important things.

Worrying about what a young FICTIONAL character wears is sort of sad.

I didn't start off worrying about what individual characters wear, it was the larger point of writers and artists feeling the need to put these underage children in this situation. Yes I know they are fictional characters, I'm not underdeveloped and mentally disabled like you seem to be, like I said, it's the larger idea at play here that bothers me.

[Washout]

There is absolutely no reason for anyone to be name-calling, especially in that way.

This thread is really getting out of hand, and not even in a way that it seems like it would. I don't really know what good things can come from continued discussion of this topic.

Also, many of these characters' ages can be up to debate and with the sliding time scale, things just don't make sense. I was 15 when the new generation of students first appeared, now I'm 21. Was it okay for me to see those characters then, but it isn't now. I am not, by any means, attracted to them, but from what many posters are saying, it is inappropriate fro them to even exist. I don't understand, I guess.

[skatalite]

OK, just read this whole clusterfuck of a thread, and here's what I think:

While the OP brings up a pretty good point, I think she's a bit too passionate about it. Reading her replies throughout the thread, I kept getting a sense of jealousy and envy. Maybe I'm wrong, and I hope I am, because I think everyone should be comfortable in their own skin. I know it's a pipe dream, but if we tried living up to other peoples' standards, we'll never make the cut. Make your own standards and apply them to your individual outlook and lifestyle.

Honestly, when I read comics, I don't think about how old someone is unless it's part of the story. For example, Wolverine is 100-plus years old, and it's constantly referred to. On the other hand, I haven't read too many recent issues where Illyana's age is an issue or even brought up. Thus, I don't look at characters like her or Pixie as underrage, or even being oversexualized.

Truth is, the comic book characters don't look their age. While in high school, it was rare for a girl to be a bombshell like those depicted in comic books. It happened, but it wasn't the norm like it seems to be in comics. Maybe that's destructive in and of itself, in relation to how female readers perceive themselves and the characters they read? Maybe not. I'm not a psychologist or a sociologist or a sexologist, so, frankly, I don't care.

All I know is teenage girls are sexual beings, and not in a sick and disgusting way. They might be clumsy or overzealous, but they're sexual beings. We all were at that age, and if you are that age then you know what I'm saying. In the end, I see this all as no big deal, even if grown, adult men are drawing these characters. I don't know the artists' intentions or thoughts behind every pen stroke, so I won't even begin, or bother, to make assumptions. What I do know is I don't see a big deal in how underage female characters are depicted.

I didn't care when Kitty offered herself to Colossus, because she's a teenager and, well, teens do have sex. I didn't see it as something gross or even erotic, I saw it as a whole new area that's going to be explored between both characters, and wondered what impact a relationship like that was going to have on the team and future stories. And damn, we've had some good stories since the two first had sex.

I think, with all respect to the OP, that sexuality as a whole is handled well in mainstream Marvel comics. I think the authors and artists think before they act, and if they go over the edge or cross the line, editors smack them with a "nu-uh."

Personally, I'm in it for the stories. If the stories are good and the art makes sense from a literary point of view, then I'm all for it. And, to this day, I really cannot think of a panel that's sexed up for no good reason.

But OP: You are awesome for bringing this up, and I admire that.

[Prodigy55]

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3586/envyashx.jpg

That's me in the hallway. Thanks for making me feel like shit.

[DiamondHart]

There is absolutely no reason for anyone to be name-calling, especially in that way.

This thread is really getting out of hand, and not even in a way that it seems like it would. I don't really know what good things can come from continued discussion of this topic.

Also, many of these characters' ages can be up to debate and with the sliding time scale, things just don't make sense. I was 15 when the new generation of students first appeared, now I'm 21. Was it okay for me to see those characters then, but it isn't now. I am not, by any means, attracted to them, but from what many posters are saying, it is inappropriate fro them to even exist. I don't understand, I guess.

You don't get what I'm saying do you? None of you do, the concept is not hard. Why do writers and artists feel the need to continue to put underage children in situations that seem to sexualize them? Why does Illyana need to fight in underwear? Why does Pixie need to play baseball in a one piece bathing suit? Why?

[Nyssane]

I wanna see Elixir in a g-string.

[Raptor]

I didn't start off worrying about what individual characters wear, it was the larger point of writers and artists feeling the need to put these underage children in this situation. Yes I know they are fictional characters, I'm not underdeveloped and mentally disabled like you seem to be, like I said, it's the larger idea at play here that bothers me.

No the larger idea is it's art and entertainment, beaches = bikini's for peopel with the figure to wear them.

Not sick, not wrong, fact.

Also, you come dangerously close to violating forum rules in regards to insulting readinging comprehension. I personally find your need to actually call me dumb cute. Others might actually get offended.

In short, I don't see the big deal.

Have a good time arguing morality on a forum where people make threads about X-Men and their genitals.

I'll repeat my attempt atgetting you to take this arguement to people who can change what is "so horribly wrong" with writers and artists. You know, you don't have to read it or look at it.

You could just accept that is the artistic interpretation of the scenarios and characters and get off of your moral high horse.

People actually already answered why it is done. It sells, it's sometimes realistic, its fictional. Fictional characters can't be hurt, taken advantage of or anythign else that really matters.

You wanna help kids and help "morally bankrupt" America? Why start on a comic forum?

It's clear most don't share your views.

Be proud ot have the opinions you have, just don't ush them on others or assume the norms you feel are correct are right.

Oh and most underdelevoped people (mentally) don't understand that morals differ from country to country and even culture to culture. You seem to only argue for the ones you grew up with or like. It would seem you can't grasp that, but I won't stoop to insult you in such a fashion. I don't mind implying it though.


I just hope the X-Men get caught making sex tapes like Tony Stark in the UU or german scat films. Then people can actually have something to complain about.

[Seres]

The argument for teenage women being drawn in provocative clothing has so far failed to impress me.

[Seikun21]

I wanna see Elixir in a g-string.

Nyssane! How've you been?

[ALEX-23]

You don't get what I'm saying do you? None of you do, the concept is not hard. Why do writers and artists feel the need to continue to put underage children in situations that seem to sexualize them? Why does Illyana need to fight in underwear? Why does Pixie need to play baseball in a one piece bathing suit? Why?

Once again: I think it just boils down to sex sells! Always has, always will!

[Prodigy55]

I play baseball in a one piece bathing suit, it's fkin hot.

[Raptor]

I play baseball in a one piece bathing suit, it's fkin hot.

I want photo evidence.

[DiamondHart]

No the larger idea is it's art and entertainment, beaches = bikini's for peopel with the figure to wear them.

Not sick, not wrong, fact.

Also, you come dangerously close to violating forum rules in regards to insulting readinging comprehension. I personally find your need to actually call me dumb cute. Others might actually get offended.

In short, I don't see the big deal.

Have a good time arguing morality on a forum where people make threads about X-Men and their genitals.

I'll repeat my attempt atgetting you to take this arguement to people who can change what is "so horribly wrong" with writers and artists. You know, you don't have to read it or look at it.

You could just accept that is the artistic interpretation of the scenarios and characters and get off of your moral high horse.

People actually already answered why it is done. It sells, it's sometimes realistic, its fictional. Fictional characters can't be hurt, taken advantage of or anythign else that really matters.

You wanna help kids and help "morally bankrupt" America? Why start on a comic forum?

It's clear most don't share your views.

Be proud ot have the opinions you have, just don't ush them on others or assume the norms you feel are correct are right.

Oh and most underdelevoped people (mentally) don't understand that morals differ from country to country and even culture to culture. You seem to only argue for the ones you grew up with or like. It would seem you can't grasp that, but I won't stoop to insult you in such a fashion. I don't mind implying it though.


I just hope the X-Men get caught making sex tapes like Tony Stark in the UU or german scat films. Then people can actually have something to complain about.

You write this whole long post chastising me for not being able to see anyone else's point of view or being able to accept them and then tell me to just keep my views to myself?

Don't quote forum rules to me when I have people insulting as well, let me know when you write them multi-paragraph rants.

I wasn't insulting your reading comprehension, just your intelligence.

[Nyssane]

Nyssane! How've you been?

Sexcelente, y tu?

[Prodigy55]

I want photo evidence.

DiamondHart wouldn't approve.

[Sgt. Preston]

You don't get what I'm saying do you? None of you do, the concept is not hard. Why do writers and artists feel the need to continue to put underage children in situations that seem to sexualize them? Why does Illyana need to fight in underwear? Why does Pixie need to play baseball in a one piece bathing suit? Why?

Oh there are plenty of us that get what you are saying. As you said yourself the concept is not that hard.

Why DO writer and artists feel the need to sexualize underage children?

As another poster mentioned none of us are qualified to make that diagnosis as each creator likely has different reasons.

For some writers or artists perhaps it is some form of base pedo tendencies.

For others perhaps it's nothing more than the age old concept of "sex sells".

Whatever the reason I don't think anyone here is denying the issue exists, but again it exists in every artistic medium.

[Seikun21]

Sexcelente, y tu?

I've been alright. I like to watch threads like this go crazy and explode. It's fun.

[DiamondHart]

Oh there are plenty of us that get what you are saying. As you said yourself the concept is not that hard.

Why DO writer and artists feel the need to sexualize underage children?

As another poster mentioned none of us are qualified to make that diagnosis as each creator likely has different reasons.

For some writers or artists perhaps it is some form of base pedo tendencies.

For others perhaps it's nothing more than the age old concept of "sex sells".

Whatever the reason I don't think anyone here is denying the issue exists, but again it exists in every artistic medium.

I appreciate your honest response. Thank you.

[striderhirryu2]

So 15 year old girls aren't allowed to go to the beach?

[$5 Milkshake]

That's me in the hallway. Thanks for making me feel like shit.

You're welcome!

[DiamondHart]

So 15 year old girls aren't allowed to go to the beach?

I hope you haven't graduated high school yet.

[Washout]

I will agree that Pixie playing baseball in a swimsuit was awkward and unnecessary.

[striderhirryu2]

I have actually thank you, but the reality is underage girls wear swimsuits in real life so what seems to be the problem in comic books?

[skatalite]

So 15 year old girls aren't allowed to go to the beach?

That's not what she's saying.

The OP is simply asking why do the authors and artists put underage characters in those situations.

When a storyline is planned, they are usually done so in advance. So, say the team gets together and they know they want Kitty to be kidnapped by the Brood, but don't know how they get her there; what does the team do? Plan/map it out. And it's in that sequence of planning it, that the team makes a conscious decision to put Kitty on a beach in a bikini, and from there she will be kidnapped by the Brood; so, for the first book or so, Kitty only has her bikini for clothing.

Just an example, but that's how it goes, and that's what the OP is saying. She's not saying teenagers can't go to the beach.

[Raptor]

You write this whole long post chastising me for not being able to see anyone else's point of view or being able to accept them and then tell me to just keep my views to myself?

Don't quote forum rules to me when I have people insulting as well, let me know when you write them multi-paragraph rants.

I wasn't insulting your reading comprehension, just your intelligence.

Those aren't paragraphs, they're called sentences.

Didn't rant either. I'd say the OpPis closer to a rant than what i did.

I also didn't quote, I paraphrased.

I didn't insult you just your logic, then you lashed out as most people do who aren't on the winning end of a debate.

You never bother to answer why you care, which I ask. You never have a rebutle for when I answer you that it sells, you just want to argue.

I argue the intelligence of anyone who ignores logic in posts. I argue the logic of anyone who is a fan of Emma Frost who encouraged the Cuckoos to be little whores and manipulate men.

That's ok as long as they don't wear skimpy outfits. Gotcha, at least they don't have emotions anymore. They dan do it and not have a conscience...or is it because theyare clones that they are therefore beyond the laws dictating sexuality and rape.

Damnable soulless pods.

Seriously, you post about why writers do that?

The simple answer is money. Seriously. Lots of fanboys and comic readers are teenaged boys.

Many teenaged boys like boobs.

The second answer is that they might be bigger pervs than the readers.

I actually answered your question, you may want to read that part of my post too.

But all jokes and rudeness and even logical answers aside:

You do know the X-Boards have had a thread about Emma getting a facial and Iceman and gambit's genitals.

Also "What do High Evolutionary's boots taste like?"

You expect people on these boards to agree with your views?

These are actual questions asking your ratinale behind this not just being rude.

I will say I do not agree that it is disgusting for Illyana to be in a bikini in combat. I also do not think it is disgusting for teenagers to send naked pictures to each other. I figured I'd take an actual stance rather thna just tak shit and insult your logic.

[Seres]

I have actually thank you, but the reality is underage girls wear swimsuits in real life so what seems to be the problem in comic books?

This line of argument suggests that people equate underage girls in bikinis with sex appeal.

The original question is not about specific costumes. It's about if underage characters should be given sex appeal, and why the writers/editors/artists choose to do so.

[DiamondHart]

Those aren't paragraphs, they're called sentences.

Didn't rant either. I'd say the OpPis closer to a rant than what i did.

I also didn't quote, I paraphrased.

I didn't insult you just your logic, then you lashed out as most people do who aren't on the winning end of a debate.

You never bother to answer why you care, which I ask. You never have a rebutle for when I answer you that it sells, you just want to argue.

I argue the intelligence of anyone who ignores logic in posts. I argue the logic of anyone who is a fan of Emma Frost who encouraged the Cuckoos to be little whores and manipulate men.

That's ok as long as they don't wear skimpy outfits. Gotcha, at least they don't have emotions anymore. They dan do it and not have a conscience...or is it because theyare clones that they are therefore beyond the laws dictating sexuality and rape.

Damnable soulless pods.

Seriously, you post about why writers do that?

The simple answer is money. Seriously. Lots of fanboys and comic readers are teenaged boys.

Many teenaged boys like boobs.

The second answer is that they might be bigger pervs than the readers.

I actually answered your question, you may want to read that part of my post too.

But all jokes and rudeness and even logical answers aside:

You do know the X-Boards have had a thread about Emma getting a facial and Iceman and gambit's genitals.

Also "What do High Evolutionary's boots taste like?"

You expect people on these boards to agree with your views?

These are actual questions asking your ratinale behind this not just being rude.

I will say I do not agree that it is disgusting for Illyana to be in a bikini in combat. I also do not think it is disgusting for teenagers to send naked pictures to each other. I figured I'd take an actual stance rather thna just tak shit and insult your logic.

I get that it sales, but that doesn't make it right. Why should we forsake moral superiority for money?

[striderhirryu2]

It's not like this is a far cry from reality. My little brother is 15 and alot of the girls in his school are dressing scantily and doing eachother like rabbits. It's kinda gross but 15 is the new 18

[Novaya Havoc]

Sexcelente, y tu?

More of this, plz (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=7692652&postcount=2830).

[$5 Milkshake]

This line of argument suggests that people equate underage girls in bikinis with sex appeal.

The original question is not about specific costumes. It's about if underage characters should be given sex appeal, and why the writers/editors/artists choose to do so.

Thing is, 99.999999% of comic characters have major sex appeal. So, if you're gonna have teenage characters in comics, chances are they will also be hot. And comics, like any form of entertainment try to reflect reality (to a degree), and reality is, young people like to go to the beach.

[DiamondHart]

It's not like this is a far cry from reality. My little brother is 15 and alot of the girls in his school are dressing scantily and doing eachother like rabbits. It's kinda gross but 15 is the new 18

That doesn't make it right! Why do we accept this? Why do we allow these kids to act and dress like adults when they clearly aren't! If I dated I would dress sexy, I have no problem with that, but I am an older woman, I enjoy dressing sexy, but when I was underage I was very prim and proper! Why can't we do that for the underage children here? Maybe if kids who read comics saw that they would cut the shit too.

[Waterlily]

You don't get what I'm saying do you? None of you do, the concept is not hard. Why do writers and artists feel the need to continue to put underage children in situations that seem to sexualize them? Why does Illyana need to fight in underwear? Why does Pixie need to play baseball in a one piece bathing suit? Why?

Illyana wearing a bikini doesn't really bother me, I wore a bikini when I was a teenager. Illyana fighting in a bikini is silly. Pixie playing baseball in a bathing suit is ridiculous. If Mr. Land knows how to photo-reference, it is beyond me why he doesn't find better references.

Why do writers and artists do this? Maybe they don't know how to write girls and stick to how they depict women. Maybe because they think sex and violence sell. Maybe they're perverts. I can only guess.

The argument for teenage women being drawn in provocative clothing has so far failed to impress me.

All those tight, form-fitting uniforms could be considered provocative. It depends on where you lay your boundaries. Teenagers also include 18 and 19 year olds and it does not bother me in the slightest if they are drawn in tastefully provocative clothing.

[Raptor]

I get that it sales, but that doesn't make it right. Why should we forsake moral superiority for money?

That's Capitalism for ya.

It is also just America's morals I might add. As many includign myself have been logically arguing, please do note that.

I do not agree with many of America's norms nad I don't followthem. Maybe I'll be reprimanded one day, I dont really care. This isn;t about me though. It's about American values.

Morality shouldn't be legislated, nor should morality be forced. It isn't morality then, its rules, regulations, and cultural norms...obviously many ignorethem or disagree. it won't change anytime soon.

Artists and writers create to make themselves proud of their work or to please an audience. Those are hte simplest core reasons anyone can give. I really don;t knbow what else tosay other than to stop seeking answers, simply accept it occurs or take action ot stop it. Theree isn't always a logical "why?"

It's not like this is a far cry from reality. My little brother is 15 and alot of the girls in his school are dressing scantily and doing eachother like rabbits. It's kinda gross but 15 is the new 18

I think the national average to lose ones virginity is 14...therefore people much younger and much older even out that average/curve.

Is it gross? maybe. I'm sure the 15 year olds don't think so. I bet they think it's fun and feels good. It probably does. I'm sure plenty tell them its wrong. I bet it still happens.

I bet its legal and socially accepted all over the world. just not in the USA.

Ultimately, it really isn;t that big a deal, it really doesn't hurt anyone.

[Seres]

Thing is, 99.999999% of comic characters have major sex appeal. So, if you're gonna have teenage characters in comics, chances are they will also be hot. And comics like any form of entertainment try to reflect reality (to a degree), and reality is, young people like to go to the beach. Women have to accept that there is an inherent sexism in the comic-book industry which means everyone must have giant breasts and long legs and skimpy skimpy outfits - but isn't it especially demeaning for our gender when this is applied to younger characters? I'm trolling wildly, but I do think the consensus that's being formed here is a bit weird.

[gorthon616]

I get that it sales, but that doesn't make it right. Why should we forsake moral superiority for money?

Specifically... the money.

Actually, no its not the money. People are just morally bankrupt these days.

[Raptor]

That doesn't make it right! Why do we accept this? Why do we allow these kids to act and dress like adults when they clearly aren't! If I dated I would dress sexy, I have no problem with that, but I am an older woman, I enjoy dressing sexy, but when I was underage I was very prim and proper! Why can't we do that for the underage children here? Maybe if kids who read comics saw that they would cut the shit too.

It doesn't make it wrong that they do it either. it simply isn't socially acceptable.

Why do people let it happen? Thats another line of questiosn nad answers altogether. I wont get into it.

I'll simply say it would require jail cells, physical restraints, or worse.

Laws do not stop things from hapening, they simply give consequences for behavior.

[gorthon616]

I think the national average to lose ones virginity is 14...therefore people much younger and much older even out that average/curve.

Is it gross? maybe. I'm sure the 15 year olds don't think so. I bet they think it's fun and feels good. It probably does. I'm sure plenty tell them its wrong. I bet it still happens.

I bet its legal and socially accepted all over the world. just not in the USA.

Ultimately, it really isn;t that big a deal, it really doesn't hurt anyone.

lol. rubbin' elbows with the kiddie porn community are ya?

[desanth]

Well I think that the issue you seem to have of the characters being put into these situations, from a practical point of view, attacking someone while they are on vacation trying to relax and away from their home base makes more sense then attacking them at their X-base. So what do you leave your home to do? Go to the beach, mall, movies, a concert, but the X-home is usually like a campus without a bar. BOO!

Personally, I'd have the bad guys attack the underage mutants while they are in a porto-pottie at a concert. Of course they wouldn't necessarily be well dressed for the concert and it might actually end up beng worse since they would doing #2.

[Nachturne]

Sexcelente, y tu?

Does this mean Mr.Sock-Caked-in-Jizz-Puppet is dead??

[$5 Milkshake]

Women have to accept that there is an inherent sexism in the comic-book industry which means everyone must have giant breasts and long legs and skimpy skimpy outfits - but isn't it especially demeaning for our gender when this is applied to younger characters? I'm trolling wildly, but I do think the consensus that's being formed here is a bit weird.

You wild troll.

Is it still considered sexism if both genders are paraded about in little to nothing with bodies unobtainable by most normal human beings?

I like to call it superior visual storytelling.

[just another user]

Is it still considered sexism if both genders are paraded about in little to nothing with bodies unobtainable by most normal human beings?

Tell me about it. I'll never look like Fat Cobra. :frown:

[Raptor]

You wild troll.

Is it still considered sexism if both genders are paraded about in little to nothing with bodies unobtainable by most normal human beings?

I like to call it superior visual storytelling.

Exactly. The males depcited with perfect muscles and washbopard stomachs don't offend me.

I may never be the super stud all of them are.

I'm ok with it, it's fiction.

I don't think I'd beleive a guy with a beer gut was kicking super villain ass.

Fighting in skimpy clothing or heels or whatever is ludacris, but visually, it's awesome.

"superior visual storytelling" indeed!

[Seres]

You wild troll.

Is it still considered sexism if both genders are paraded about in little to nothing with bodies unobtainable by most normal human beings?

I like to call it superior visual storytelling.

I think it's a little uneven at the moment, though. Pixie and Magik have become rather pneumatic recently, and yet there haven't been any topless scenes for Hellion, Prodigy or Ink in aaaaaaaages.

[$5 Milkshake]

Tell me about it. I'll never look like Fat Cobra. :frown:

I bet you could if you tried. If I can do it, so can you. Its all mindset.

[Raptor]

lol. rubbin' elbows with the kiddie porn community are ya?

Nah. I'd be offended if I thought you were implying I'm a pedophile or like little kids in that fashion. I'm not though.

Even if I "liked 'em young"...I'd prefer fully developed or damn near.

I simply don't agree with America's values in many cases.

Canada's (most of it anyway.) and Mexico's age of consent is less than 18. I wouldn't say they condone kiddie porn.

there is a difference, people just like to act like there isn;t. According tothe US Supreme Court there isn't so in America it must be right. I simply don't agree with every norm and law and policy.

[Sgt. Preston]

That doesn't make it right! Why do we accept this? Why do we allow these kids to act and dress like adults when they clearly aren't! If I dated I would dress sexy, I have no problem with that, but I am an older woman, I enjoy dressing sexy, but when I was underage I was very prim and proper! Why can't we do that for the underage children here? Maybe if kids who read comics saw that they would cut the shit too.

Maybe if kids' parents taught the right values those children would have no desire to dress in a sexualized manner regardless of what they see in various forms of entertainment.

That's the only way to truly change anything about this topic.

But even then sexualization will never completely go away. It's been with us since the earliest days of humanity and will continue as long as there is an audience. Let's face it sexuality is a base, human instinct.

That's why this issue is so much larger than the comic industry.

[Sunbird]

That's not what she's saying.

The OP is simply asking why do the authors and artists put underage characters in those situations.

When a storyline is planned, they are usually done so in advance. So, say the team gets together and they know they want Kitty to be kidnapped by the Brood, but don't know how they get her there; what does the team do? Plan/map it out. And it's in that sequence of planning it, that the team makes a conscious decision to put Kitty on a beach in a bikini, and from there she will be kidnapped by the Brood; so, for the first book or so, Kitty only has her bikini for clothing.

Just an example, but that's how it goes, and that's what the OP is saying. She's not saying teenagers can't go to the beach.
Why would you set a story with teenagers on a beach? Because that is where teenagers like to go. It's a situation that teenagers that live near a beach can relate to, or anyone who was a teenager. It is not obvious pandering (like a hypothetical setting a story during a visit to Victoria's Secret to try on undies) it is just a place teenagers go. Like other New Mutants stories were set in schools, malls, formal balls, you know, teenager settings.

If you want to make your teenagers seem believable you need them to act like teenagers. These days teenagers tend to wear clothes that are risque in the eyes of older generations (no change since the first teenager left a cave without enough sabretoothskin rags on). Ce'st la vie. The teeangers of the X-Men do not dress in a way I'd call pandering (compared to say some manga/anime I've seen) they dress in a style similar to their peers in the real world. In fact, I'd venture more conservatively than some kids I see on the streets.

[Nyssane]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/ursula_boi/NewAnaconda.jpg

[$5 Milkshake]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/ursula_boi/NewAnaconda.jpg

Anaconda looks way too femme in that pic.

[skatalite]

Why would you set a story with teenagers on a beach? Because that is where teenagers like to go. It's a situation that teenagers that live near a beach can relate to, or anyone who was a teenager. It is not obvious pandering (like a hypothetical setting a story during a visit to Victoria's Secret to try on undies) it is just a place teenagers go. Like other New Mutants stories were set in schools, malls, formal balls, you know, teenager settings.

If you want to make your teenagers seem believable you need them to act like teenagers. These days teenagers tend to wear clothes that are risque in the eyes of older generations (no change since the first teenager left a cave without enough sabretoothskin rags on). Ce'st la vie. The teeangers of the X-Men do not dress in a way I'd call pandering (compared to say some manga/anime I've seen) they dress in a style similar to their peers in the real world. In fact, I'd venture more conservatively than some kids I see on the streets.

I'm not arguing any of that, but what the OP is saying is "why a beach?"

If the creative team knows Kitty is going to get kidnapped by the Brood, why put her on a beach in a bikini? Why not have her be kidnapped at the roller rink or, I dunno, at an Apple Store?

[darknessatnoon]

I'm not arguing any of that, but what the OP is saying is "why a beach?"

If the creative team knows Kitty is going to get kidnapped by the Brood, why put her on a beach in a bikini? Why not have her be kidnapped at the roller rink or, I dunno, at an Apple Store?

Why couldn't Fat Karma go to the beach? Why did the rest of the New Mutants show such insensitivity to her by parading around in their underwear in front of her? The answer: AA and CC are sick pervs and had to get their jollies off.

[Sunbird]

I'm not arguing any of that, but what the OP is saying is "why a beach?"

If the creative team knows Kitty is going to get kidnapped by the Brood, why put her on a beach in a bikini? Why not have her be kidnapped at the roller rink or, I dunno, at an Apple Store?

And I'm saying "why not?". I mean, if every story resulted in some kind of Empowered style clothing malfunction I'd take the point. But if people go to the beach then that is as good a place to set a story was any. I doubt the craetive writers were going <Beavis>"hurr, hurr, if we set the story at the beach the Kitty has to wear a bikini the whole time.</Beavis> <Buthead>He he he dude you said kitty. Isn't that, like *****. He he he. </Buthead>

[skatalite]

And I'm saying "why not?". I mean, if every story resulted in some kind of Empowered style clothing malfunction I'd take the point. But if people go to the beach then that is as good a place to set a story was any. I doubt the craetive writers were going <Beavis>"hurr, hurr, if we set the story at the beach the Kitty has to wear a bikini the whole time.</Beavis> <Buthead>He he he dude you said kitty. Isn't that, like *****. He he he. </Buthead>

Right, and I get you and agree. I just think people are taking the OP's question way too out of context. Not to say you are, cause you obviously aren't.

To me, a beach is no different from plucking a character out of other natural habitats like mall, park, home, school, off the Interstate, etc.

[striderhirryu2]

In Mallrats Stan Lee said he did an issue of Spider-Man where Peter and Gwen Stacy go lingerie shopping and the Green Goblin shows up and pumpkin bombs the shit out of the place. Settings are a means to an end.

[wolvie616]

the point is when you make a charachter, they need to be visually appealing. therefore, as you say, they are "sexy"

[darknessatnoon]

therefore, as you say, they are "sexy"

Are you French now?

[rick]

I also would request no pictures of the subjects be posted here, especially of Illyana, her outfit is the most offensive.

Good luck with that.

[rick]

....the whore in the High School Musical movies who sends naked photo's to her boyfriend, it's disgusting.


My, my, aren't you the judgemental little creep.

As the father of many daughters I know that the little hormone monkeys can do all sorts of stupid things.

Like flash their boobs on their phones.

As a parent and an adult I do not approve of them doing things that cheapen them like that.

However also as a parent of daughters, I'd really like to know who the Hell you think that you are to call a girl who you don't even know a whore?

You might want to stop and pull that plank from your eye, because you my little friend should feel free to say whatever bad thing about fictional characters that you want to, but when you are talking about actual real life, human beings, you really need to sit down and shut up.

Oh yeah, before I forget, here's a naked shot of Kitty Pryde to hold you over...

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/5852/scan0012sxg.jpg

[SayOcean]

My, my, aren't you the judgemental little creep.

As the father of many daughters I know that the little hormone monkeys can do all sorts of stupid things.

Like flash their boobs on their phones.

As a parent and an adult I do not approve of them doing things that cheapen them like that.

However also as a parent of daughters, I'd really like to know who the Hell you think that you are to call a girl who you don't even know a whore?

You might want to stop and pull that plank from your eye, because you my little friend should feel free to say whatever bad thing about fictional characters that you want to, but when you are talking about actual real life, human beings, you really need to sit down and shut up.

Oh yeah, before I forget, here's a naked shot of Kitty Pryde to hold you over...

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/5852/scan0012sxg.jpgthis probably one of the most awesomest posts on here......and to me it seems like people are jealous...yes actually jealous of fictional characters that they feel they have to demean, or make them feel bad just for something that reveals their shape....

[$5 Milkshake]

As the father of many daughters I know that the little hormone monkeys can do all sorts of stupid things.

Like flash their boobs on their phones.

As a parent and an adult I do not approve of them doing things that cheapen them like that.

However also as a parent of daughters, I'd really like to know who the Hell you think that you are to call a girl who you don't even know a whore?

I agree, sometimes your bits get tingly and suddenly your brain loses all control of your functions.

[DiamondHart]

this probably one of the most awesomest posts on here......and to me it seems like people are jealous...yes actually jealous of fictional characters that they feel they have to demean, or make them feel bad just for something that reveals their shape....

Why would I be jealous of a fictional character? I simply want standards imposed on characters who are suppose to be underage. I'm sorry you get off on underage kids in tight, revealing clothing.

[samil87]

Not really related to anything, but the UK is in Europe. I'm always amused when people (usually from the UK) list them like they are separate (California and the US)...

Interestingly 16 seems to be the norm in the South of the US, which is traditionally more religious.

This is why we say it. California (state-part the US) and the US (country) would be more like the equivalent to say Lincolnshire (county- part of UK/England) and the UK. It's more like Mexico and North America or Canada and North America.

Europe is a continent like North America, not a country. We're an Island, so we're even physically seperate. Laws, culture and attitudes do differ, sort of like American states I guess but that's just because it's so big.
Most people over here would consider themselves English/Scottish/Irish/Welsh/Birtish rather than European; probably in the same way Canadians and Mexicans don't call themselves Americans (at least I don't think they do). :smile:

I'm not sure why it tends to bug us, it just does, we're an odd bunch of people :biggrin:

More on topic I'm not sure what to make of it, but in say New X-Men or Young Avengers (cancelled and on hiatus, I know, but they're sort of recent) I can't think of an issue where you could say a character was oversexualised, so if it is an issue is it a really a current one?
In all honesty I never really see comic book characters sexually, especially not the underage ones. I do sometimes think Psylocke's going to catch her death of cold if she wears that thong Bikini to Alaska, it just ain't practical. See, this total disregard of what is and isn't coat weather, this bothers me. :frown:

[wanderlust565]

Yeah, to be honest I'm torn on this issue. I wanted to post earlier but couldn't really make up my mind. I've decided that for me it is all a part of storytelling. I see the characters when drawn much in the same way I see older actors who play teenagers. Actual children aren't being exploited these are drawings just as the actors are adults. It's all in the story. That being said , I respect your opinion Diamondheart and hope you respect mine

[LungerTony]

I would agree with post. I don't like the sexualization of a lot of the younger tween characters. It's just creepy and distasteful to me.

[That JonoGuy]

With all the fuss over Illyana's swimwear, all i can can think of is it was the 80's.

[desanth]

I would agree with post. I don't like the sexualization of a lot of the younger tween characters. It's just creepy and distasteful to me.

Yea, I thought Pixie was way young and has 'matured' a bit too fast recently.

[psychic_therapy]

I think the underage ones have been promoted too much in that way... which is weird because there're no shortage of adult females for that.

[striderhirryu2]

I just don't understand what's wrong with underage girls in comics acting like underage girls in real life. We live in a world where entertainment mediums demand realism, so the teens in comics do things teens do in real life except the comic version is much more censored.

[Hamdinger]

I find it hilarious that 17 pages of this nonsense and no one has mentioned the irony of Diamondheart's avatar being of notorious ho-bag Emma Frost. (probably painted by the dastardly sex monger Greg Horn!)

[Waterlily]

I find it hilarious that 17 pages of this nonsense and no one has mentioned the irony of Diamondheart's avatar being of notorious ho-bag Emma Frost. (probably painted by the dastardly sex monger Greg Horn!)

Emma is of age. It's okay to objectify adult characters.
it's probably terrible that I'm not being sarcastic about this.

[The Black Guardian]

decency
Decency can mean just about anything you want it to mean. Frankly, imo, it's indecent for you to be making an issue of it. I very much blame this mentality on the fact many young adults, which imo begins around 16, aren't ready to lead mature lives. Society's misguided attempts to protect them has stunted their emotional and psychological growth.

Just because underage characters are showing skin doesn't mean adults watching it get any kind of thrill from it. Frankly, showing your disgust over it does show that your mind automatically goes there, which I find disturbing.

[Vegetarian Goat]

That doesn't make it right! Why do we accept this? Why do we allow these kids to act and dress like adults when they clearly aren't! If I dated I would dress sexy, I have no problem with that, but I am an older woman, I enjoy dressing sexy, but when I was underage I was very prim and proper! Why can't we do that for the underage children here? Maybe if kids who read comics saw that they would cut the shit too.

Because not everyone is the same, and writers accept that. You dressed prim and proper when you were younger. Well, so does Wolfsbane, and Hisako, Early Pixie, Kitty Pryde, etc. But that's a type of personality. Someone like Illyana dresses radically different, and is clearly meant to be offensive to some people. Now, you say you're not concerned with the in-story reason for this, and i get that. But i don't think that it's a matter of allowing or accepting this as a social change- the reason being is that the visual appearance of these characters, more often than not, isn't a matter of glorification. People don't look at Demon Illyana and think, "That's Hot". It's supposed to repel. The visual image is sending the message that "This is bad. She's Bad." And any kid that reads that comic or sees that character will understand that.

When writers put a group of characters at a beach instead of at a mall, it's not meant to titillate. I may not have ever MET Chris Claremont, but i can virtually guarantee you that there's no ulterior motive behind the scene placement. It's just to show kids having FUN. FUN is not hanging out at a mall, believe me, i work at one.

Now, you also suggested that if they must be at a beach, some more modest swim attire would be appropriate. Well, i submit to you that it wouldn't. And the reason is, that comics are an art form, first and foremost. And art doesn't have responsibilities, people do. If you're a parent and you don't like what your kid is looking at, then it's your responsibility to censor what your kid sees.

The people who make the comics have a responsibility to make a quality product that shows that time, effort, thought, and craft have been taken into consideration during production. If someone with a ripe dark side like Illyana, or a free-spirit like Magma shows up at a beach wearing a flower-print onesie, a fan will see through it, unless it's played for irony. Likewise, if Rahne showed up at the beach wearing a thong and pasties, that would be equally as jarring. A great deal goes into character design. A lot of information about a character's personality can be expressed through little things like hairstyle, or dress. It's not objectification, it's expression.

The fact of the matter is, comics are an interactive medium. The writer and the artist give you the information they see fit, but at the end of the day, you complete the equation. You can choose to see these characters as being objectified. And you can choose to see the books as containing some sinister motive. But really, it's your choice. You can choose to read them any way you want and make a case for it. But realize that it comes down to you.

Dan

[Bolebeau]

Okay. Wow. I didn't expect this thread to blow up as much as it did.

While I mostly disagree with DiamondHeart, she does have a point. Or at least a point-like thingie. Some artists do oversexualize teenage characters (*coughlandcough*), but to frown upon teenagers wearing swimsuits or, y'know, regular teen fashion? Ridiculous. Most artists do nothing but reflect reality in a stylized manner.

I'd also like to echo everything Vegitarian Goat said. Perfect!

[The Black Guardian]

I wouldn't insult you for your viewpoints, I honestly think they're pretty valid. This world has gotten into the habit of sexualizing young people ( i.e. Britney Spears , Miley Cyrus ) That on it's own is pretty sad, I'm just not sure that I personally would put comics ( mostly because they're drawings and not real life photos) into that category, but as I said I respect your opinion
We've been sexualizing our young people for so long, you wouldn't recognize the world without it.

[samil87]

I'm not defending this or agreeing with it but surely if a certain artist traces something from his adult magazine collection and then the writer says it's Pixie what's in the comic is actally the image of a (real) grown woman rather than a "sexualised teen" (whatever that means, it's not that long since I was a teen and as I recall I didn't think of much else). Though this is inappropiate contextually at least.
I do agree that it isn't necessary to put the characters in the situations in the first place (enough's been said on it but what I know of the beach one seems innocent enough, so I won't concede that one) but I'm not sure that many people read so much in to it.

[worstblogever]

Hell, if Disney executives can see the Pussycat Dolls, a musical act whose origins lie in a burlesque show, and then make their own knock-off teen & tween version of them, the Cheetah Girls, then it shouldn't surprise anyone that Marvel should go the same angle. "Jailbait factor" was the entire reason half the pop stars of the late 90s got famous.

That being said, I'm put off by it, yeah, but not to the point of outrage. There are lines of over the top (and Greg Land does skirt 'em) oversexualization. As long as the writing doesn't get too crazy, i.e. Pixie, Trance, Loa, Surge, Mercury, and X-23 have an issue where they opt to entertain the boys at the Marin Base with a "rainbow party"... then I'll be one of the first to "WHAT THE F***?"

[Nicoclaws]

I totally second what the Vegetarian Goat has said.

(and I'm wondering why you call a 20-year girl a whore because she sexually plays with her boyfriend...)

[worstblogever]

I am disturbed by complaints about sexy, underaged characters in comics by an individual with a young Emma Frost avatar. This does not compute.

By the same logic, you'd think Wolverine fans all go out and stab strangers in bars for mouthing off to them.

You'd think.