Which Batgirl do you want?

[Henker]

So, the Batgirl ongoing is supposed to be out this year, but we still don't know who's going to be under the mask. Hell, it seems like DC doesn't even know. If it were up to you, who would you want to see as the title character?

[Dard]

I was a really really big fan of Cassandra Cain, but I would never want to see the post-OYL Cassandra as a Batgirl.
Don't want to see Barbara as her either, since she's so much better as Oracle.

Steph would be my next choice, but I voted Cassandra for old times sake.

[Purple]

Barbara Gordon. It would be interesting to see how DC handle her disability.

[DLH1970]

The only Batgirl I'd have any interest in is Babs.

[F1uke]

Do we need a Batgirl? I think Steph is the only Batgirl I would be ok with. I'm not even sure I'd buy it, but I don't want Cassie as Batgirl anymore, and they could very easily ruin Babs by healing her.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Cass, IMO, is still the best Batgirl around.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

I still prefer Cassandra Cain as the current Batgirl. Barbara was great but I prefer her as Oracle, I'd like to see Stephanie in a new identity, and Misfit I don't see as Batgirl, but Cassandra I like for the time being.

[Wind-Breaker]

Cain, I'd like to see her have a more prominent role in protecting Gotham now that Bruce is gone. Barbara can stay as Oracle because she has more impact on the DCU in that role, and like someone said before, visually we don't need another grown redheaded woman in a bat-suit running around calling her self "Batgirl" when Batwoman who's probably around the same age. Getting a brand new Batgirl would be a step down, because Cain is probably the most original of all the contenders and has an established (and very vocal) fan base.

[DonC]

I voted for Beryl. I liked Babs as Batgirl, but she works better as Oracle. Cass never interested me and I like Misfit and Spoiler as Misfit and Spoiler. Beryl is someone new-ish and interesting.

[Raptor]

I voted for Babs.

She would be the most intersting read in my opinion.

If we were voting for biggest badass as Batgirl: Cassandra Cain.

[Alejandro]

Come on....Babs simply cant be BatGIRL

[joe27]

I agree. Isn't Babs about the same age as Kate Kane?

It would be stupid for one to be Batgirl and the other Batwoman. I can't stand Babs, but even I think the character has a little more self respect than that.

Plus, it would sort of come across as a premature mid-life crisis on her part. Like some faded housewife digging out her old cheerleader outfit, putting on a shitload of make-up, slapping a Duran Duran bumper sticker on the SUV and going to pick up the kids from school. A little sad and embarrassing for everyone involved.

[Jake V]

If there was an "anyone but cassandra cain" option, I'd vote for that.

[blackphoenix]

Barbara Gordon. DC shoulda never let Alan Moore "kill" her.

[Cayman]

Babs or none.

[nepenthes]

Put Stephanie Brown in the costume and I might consider picking up a batgirl book....

[carabas]

If there was an "anyone but cassandra cain" option, I'd vote for that.I think that falls under 'other'.

[joe27]

Put Stephanie Brown in the costume and I might consider picking up a batgirl book....

Stephanie Brown is too busy being picked up on street corners to be Batgirl.

[paulski]

Put Stephanie Brown in the costume and I might consider picking up a batgirl book....

It's a very interesting premise, isn't it.

[Mr Blinky]

Barbara's too old to be a Batgirl (and just better as Oracle), I'd rather Steph be Spoiler, I have no clue who Charlotte Gage-thingy is, and making Beryl the Batgirl would force writers to attempt 'authentic' British slang, which would be hellish.

So, Cassie. Plus, Cassie is awesome.

[Henker]

making Beryl the Batgirl would force writers to attempt 'authentic' British slang, which would be hellish.
I never thought about that. "''Ello guv'na" and "roight den, fancy a shag?" would get old quick.

[Mac]

My own personal run down:

Cassandra Cain:
I like her as Batgirl, but only because I can't really see her doing anything else.
But we've pretty much been told Cassandra will be in a different role that won't be Batgirl come June. So that rules her out.

Barbra Gordon:
She's Oracle. Don't mess up a good thing. >:[
But....signs certainly do point to her becoming Batgirl. Which...is just stupid.
She's Oracle. She can't be BatGIRL when she's the same age as BatWOMAN. Ahhh

Stephanie Brown
Now, Stephanie seems the most logical to me. She's young- backs up the GIRL in the name. Robin told her not to wear the Spoiler outfit and fight crime anymore.
Becoming Batgirl would be a nice loophole.

Misfit
I honestly don't even care for this character.

Beryll
She already has a role.
She's London's Robin. Sure she's in Gotham now- but that's only until they've got things under control post BftC.


My money's between Barbra and Stephanie.
Barbra supports the regression theme DC's got going on. And Stephanie just seems to be the better choice, IMO.

[Samy]

Barbara Gordon doesn't work for me taking the mantle of a BatGIRL.

If she's going to get her legs back, I'm fine with her going Bat again, but it should be BatWOMAN.

Therefore, from the remaining options Cassandra Cain is fine by me. No change just for the sake of change. She's fine where she is, let it continue.

[F1uke]

I never thought about that. "''Ello guv'na" and "roight den, fancy a shag?" would get old quick.

Don't forget about:


Nigel: Don't you remember the crimbo din-din we had with the grotty Scots bint?
Austin: Oh, the one that was all sixes and sevens!
Nigel: Yeah, yeah, she was the trouble and strife of the Morris dancer what lived up the apples and pears!
Austin: She was the barrister what become a bobby in a lorry and...
Austin & Nigel: --tea kettle!
Nigel: And then, and then--
Austin & Nigel: She shat on a turtle!

[Captain Jim]

Do we need a Batgirl?

Actually, I kind of agree with this. But I suppose DC does need a Batgirl, if only to maintain the trademark. I don't know; I'm not really rooting for anybody in particular. I just hope, whoever they pick, it's done well. But I do have pretty strong opinions about not wanting to see Babs or Cassie killed off.

[Jack Flash]

Maybe Babs can be Lady Bat! I don't see her going back to BatGirl now that she's no longer a girl.

I voted for Spoiler.

[Static-Pulse]

Beryl Hutchinson!

I would 100% checkout a Batgirl book with Beryl, 65% with Stephanie as Batgirl, 0% with Babs or Cassandra. And for the record, I was reading and loving Cassandra's Batgirl book, but I refuse to be burned again by DC after the way her series ended. The burned too much goodwill for me to ever read another book with Cassandra. I like the character too much to read a book with her in it.

[Sizzle]

It's obvious DC has not known what to do with Cass for a long time. I liked her back in the first run of her title.

I would only like to see Barbara back in the cowl if they put her together with Dick. The two of the being together and fighting crime together would be a good book. Oh, and have Gail write it!

Stephanie maybe, but I like the Spoiler, and I think Robin is going to forgive her eventually.

[joel221]

I would at least try out a title regardless of who takes the Batgirl mantle. I would probably drop it almost immediately if it was bad regardless of who takes the Batgirl mantle.

Of the choices, I really like both Babs Batgirl and Cassandra Batgirl in general, but for the current continuity I much prefer Cassandra. I hate what they've done to Cass OYL, but Dixon did okay with her in Outsiders and I'd be delighted to see her in a solo book again were she written by someone who actually liked/cared about the character and liked/cared about keeping her in continuity with her original personality and motivation.

I worry that Babs as Batgirl in the present would quickly descend into mostly pinup and cheesecake art, and I really don't want a Batgirl that exists even 50% for the sex appeal. It's was rather refreshing to read a comic series (Cass's) that didn't often sexualize and objectify the heroine.

edit: Is it possible after the fact to make the results public? I think it's good accountability for everyone to see who voted what.

[Henker]

Is it possible after the fact to make the results public? I think it's good accountability for everyone to see who voted what.
Just tried. No, it doesn't look like it's possible.

[Golden_Tuna]

Vote: Stephanie Brown

[Captain Jim]

I would only like to see Barbara back in the cowl if they put her together with Dick. The two of the being together and fighting crime together would be a good book.

I hadn't even thought of that, but it's a great idea. Of course, I don't expect it to happen.

[frostedone]

Cassandra Cain all the way. Only if her post OYL stuff is cleaned up though.

I really do not want Babs to become Batgirl again, it would be a step backwards for her.

Stephanie doesn't have the skills to be a good Batgirl.

[Captain Jim]

Stephanie doesn't have the skills to be a good Batgirl.

I don't know; I think she could grow into it. Betty Kane certainly didn't have the skills when she became the first Batgirl. You could even argue about whether or not Barbara Gordon did.

[TROUBLEZ]

I would have said Barbara, ONLY if they completely relaunched the DCU and erased the continuity of The Killing Joke, Death in the Family, Identity Crisis, stuff like that.
But after having Barbara in a wheelchair all this time and then her magically finding a cure seems very cheap.
And having all these other people know Batman's identity is pushing it. I don't think Batman would trust his secrets with a formerly brainwashed assassin.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I don't know; I think she could grow into it. Betty Kane certainly didn't have the skills when she became the first Batgirl. You could even argue about whether or not Barbara Gordon did.

Yeah, but when they were introduced, female heroines were really expected to be incompotent. These days, less so.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I would have said Barbara, ONLY if they completely relaunched the DCU and erased the continuity of The Killing Joke, Death in the Family, Identity Crisis, stuff like that.
But after having Barbara in a wheelchair all this time and then her magically finding a cure seems very cheap.
And having all these other people know Batman's identity is pushing it. I don't think Batman would trust his secrets with a formerly brainwashed assassin.


Cass knew long before the brainwashing, actually.

[carabas]

I don't think Batman would trust his secrets with a formerly brainwashed assassin.Who do you mean?
Edit: Ah, Cass. Who was not brainwashed nor an assassin.

[Captain Jim]

Yeah, but when they were introduced, female heroines were really expected to be incompotent. These days, less so.

True, but I don't think Steph is incompetent.

[The Cool Thatguy]

True, but I don't think Steph is incompetent.

I think that whole War Games mess disagrees ;)

[ScottyQuick]

I think that whole War Games mess disagrees ;)

I think the fact that War Games was retconned within 3 years and has been continuously pointed out as horrible characterization of Stephanie and Bruce disagrees ;)

[beetlebum]

True, but I don't think Steph is incompetent.

Neither do I.

I'm going through a massive Spoiler phase right now, and I'd love to see her as Batgirl.

[TROUBLEZ]

Who do you mean?
Edit: Ah, Cass. Who was not brainwashed nor an assassin.

She wasn't??
My bad. I thought she went crazy with OYL or something like that.

But according to wikipedia she was trained by her father to be an assassin but never taught her to read or write. After her first hit (or maybe her father did the dirty work) she ran off.

Then she became leader of the League of Assassins.

Sounds like a liability for Batman.

[stextc]

Cassandra Cain gets my vote.

I would like Babs but not at retconnning everything or magically finding a cure.

[Henker]

She wasn't??
My bad. I thought she went crazy with OYL or something like that.

But according to wikipedia she was trained by her father to be an assassin but never taught her to read or write. After her first hit (or maybe her father did the dirty work) she ran off.

Then she became leader of the League of Assassins.

Sounds like a liability for Batman.
Cass's "crazy and leader of the League of Assassins" phase was terribly out of character. Most fans hate that time period and try their best to pretend that it doesn't exist. In her own series Cass was more strongly anti-killing than Bruce himself, since she killed a man at 6 years old and saw how horrific it was. This makes Cass one of his strongest allies, not a liability.

[TROUBLEZ]

So you would suggest that the OYL mess just be ignored?

Me, if they are going to keep all this continuity intact, then they should keep Cassie but just give her a better costume.
Alex Maleev's design is interesting but it's very unattractive.
Why not Spoiler continue being Spoiler, Batgirl II (or III) staying as is because if not it's going to end up being like the all-new Bat-girl VI and Batwoman XII, and Robin 7.5.

[Henker]

So you would suggest that the OYL mess just be ignored?
Yes. Anything that has "Cassandra Cain" and "Adam Beechen" (the author behind the OYL mess) in the same sentence should be ignored.

[Golden_Tuna]

Neither do I.

I'm going through a massive Spoiler phase right now, and I'd love to see her as Batgirl.

haha thats my life story right now, too

[Sizzle]

Stephanie doesn't have the skills to be a good Batgirl.

Does it really matter? DC these days will make character changes that don't fit the character to meet the editorial demand on how it should be done.

All's it takes is her getting a sucker punch in on Bruce to build some cred and she's good to go :tongue:

[BeastieRunner]

If Dan is gonna go all out old school, he better go full circle.

Babs

[Will J.]

I'd prefer Cassandra as Batgirl.

I like Babs as Oracle, Beryl as the Squire, and I don't know who Misfit is. And my irrational hatred of Spoiler prevents me from being objective about her.

[joemagnum611]

Well Barbra isn't a girl anymore. She's a grown woman who has come in to her own. In my eyes Cassandra is Batgirl. But didn't the powers over at DC say that she will no longer be Batgirl at a recent con?

[Ben Reilly#6]

I'd prefer Cassandra as Batgirl.

I like Babs as Oracle, Beryl as the Squire, and I don't know who Misfit is. And my irrational hatred of Spoiler prevents me from being objective about her.

Ha! Oddly enough, I was going to say the exact same thing, only with Misfit's and Spoiler's positions switched.

Honestly, I don't see the need to play musical mantles all of a sudden, just because there's a new Batman for a while. What we need now is more role expansion, really.

...Though, maybe I'm just still bitter that Cassandra's not getting the cowl. Who knows.

[carabas]

She wasn't??
My bad. I thought she went crazy with OYL or something like that.What happened was that DC figured that with Bat-Woman around (her ongoing was supposed to be launched right after Infinite Crisis), Batgirl wasn't needed anymore, so they tyurned her into a villain. And they did it very badly in a way that didn't make the slightest sense, so after huge fan protst, DC backpedalled and had her brainwashed by Deathstroke instead. And that would have been fine if Beechen (the writer who messed her up in the first place) hadn't then later gone on to write her like not all that brainwashed after all and quite inately psychopathic and murderous.

But before all that crap happened, Cassandra Cain was the single character in the DCU far less likely to kill someone than even Bruce Wayne.

But according to wikipedia she was trained by her father to be an assassin but never taught her to read or write. After her first hit (or maybe her father did the dirty work) she ran off.Not quite. He trainedher to fight, from birth. He did it in such a way that the language centre of her brain was completely devoted to body reading and skills, making it virtually impossible for her to learn how to read or write. But while he thaught her every killing technique known to man (and just as a reminder, Batman learned quite a lot of those as well, and was thought in part by killers) he never thaught her to kill. And when she toook her first life (at age eight) she saw what she had done, knew what she had done, and knew that knowing now what death is, would never ever do it again. And ran away.

Sounds like a liability for Batman.You should read her stories from before OYL. She was at one time his biggest asset after Oracle.
So you would suggest that the OYL mess just be ignored?You can't keep both that mess, and keep Cass as a vialble character. It'd be like keeping a story where Bruce Wayne, armed with an UZI and a chainsaw, masssacred a mall in continuity.

[Will J.]

Ha! Oddly enough, I was going to say the exact same thing, only with Misfit's and Spoiler's positions switched.

Honestly, I don't see the need to play musical mantles all of a sudden, just because there's a new Batman for a while. What we need now is more role expansion, really.

...Though, maybe I'm just still bitter that Cassandra's not getting the cowl. Who knows.

I wouldn't blame you for being bitter about it.

From what I've seen, it was a clusterf**k that no character deserves.

I probably wasn't as thrown by it, though, since I only really started reading her during the crossover with Robin, but I liked her in that.

[twincast]

I was a really really big fan of Cassandra Cain, but I would never want to see the post-OYL Cassandra as a Batgirl.
Don't want to see Barbara as her either, since she's so much better as Oracle.

Steph would be my next choice, but I voted Cassandra for old times sake.

same here... *sigh* I feel so jaded.

[Lorendiac]

I was a really really big fan of Cassandra Cain, but I would never want to see the post-OYL Cassandra as a Batgirl.
Don't want to see Barbara as her either, since she's so much better as Oracle.

Steph would be my next choice, but I voted Cassandra for old times sake.

My feelings are very similar to yours. You want the truth? I still haven't even bothered to read any post-OYL stories which have focused on the butchered version of the character concept of "Cassandra Cain." I've seen online scans of a panel here and a page there, and summaries of what happened to her in various stories, so I've got the general idea, but I haven't been spending any of my hard-earned money just to get hold of entire stories (such as the way Beechen handled her in that first "Robin" arc in the OYL period). I figure I avoid a lot of mental anguish this way!

So a minute ago, when I voted for Cassandra, I meant I was voting for the character as I remember her from the "good old days." If I were offered the chance to write a Batgirl series for DC, I'd basically ignore the last three years of her continuity as much as possible.

(Since DC has not offered me a job, I settle for writing the occasional fanfic about her instead, always set in the continuity of "several years ago.")

[Sharpandpointies]

My feelings are very similar to yours. You want the truth? I still haven't even bothered to read any post-OYL stories which have focused on the butchered version of the character concept of "Cassandra Cain." I've seen online scans of a panel here and a page there, and summaries of what happened to her in various stories, so I've got the general idea, but I haven't been spending any of my hard-earned money just to get hold of entire stories (such as the way Beechen handled her in that first "Robin" arc in the OYL period). I figure I avoid a lot of mental anguish this way!

Probably a good plan.

So a minute ago, when I voted for Cassandra, I meant I was voting for the character as I remember her from the "good old days." If I were offered the chance to write a Batgirl series for DC, I'd basically ignore the last three years of her continuity as much as possible.

I voted for Cass as well. Not OYL Pod-Cassie.

[joel221]

My feelings are very similar to yours. You want the truth? I still haven't even bothered to read any post-OYL stories which have focused on the butchered version of the character concept of "Cassandra Cain." I've seen online scans of a panel here and a page there, and summaries of what happened to her in various stories, so I've got the general idea, but I haven't been spending any of my hard-earned money just to get hold of entire stories (such as the way Beechen handled her in that first "Robin" arc in the OYL period). I figure I avoid a lot of mental anguish this way!

So a minute ago, when I voted for Cassandra, I meant I was voting for the character as I remember her from the "good old days." If I were offered the chance to write a Batgirl series for DC, I'd basically ignore the last three years of her continuity as much as possible.

Ditto. QFT in pretty much every regard.

[frostedone]

What everyone else said.

Cassandra did not deserve her OYL treatment. She was such a good character and so much against killing. Suddenly she is evil. What gives. Beechen's mind control serum didn't work either. She seemed to to still be in control.

Hopefully we can get a retcon soon of her OYL stuff - her miniseries (except for being adopted by Bruce.)

Come on DC, please don't fail us again.

[C-Cool]

Cassandra Cain, only if the Beechen mess is forgotten.

Other wise, Steph.

This "Barbra should be Batgirl" stuff has really got me jaded with not only the DC higher-ups, but the DC fans themselves.

This is one of a few group of fans that have continuously eaten each other up for self interest sake.

DC vs. Marvel
Hal vs. Kyle
Wally vs. Barry
Cass vs. Barbara
Conner vs. Roy
Battle of the Robins
Superman, Batman, or Wonder Woman vs. any other character that tries to rise up and have a bigger impact in the comic world (keyword: Captain Marvel/Shazam)
Kara Zor-El vs. Any other type of Supergirl (especially Pre-crisis, Linda/Matrix, and Powergirl).

Maybe it's time for DC to think more about our medium, rather than characters in a story. Let the fans argue among themselves. Make the best stories you can with the characters and situations you have. Our fans have really divided among themselves between characters. And the backtracking has done more to cause this division. Sometimes, nostalgia needs to stay that way.

It was a while ago when Morrison had good stories with Electric Blue Superman and Walter West (JLA).

[cjr42009]

Barbara Gordon is surely the best bat girl ever featured. I am a huge fan of her. Her actions impress me well.

[Golden_Tuna]

Barbara's position as Oracle is established, enviable, and honored.

Cassandra doesn't need the Batgirl mantle, her character is amazing and has the potential to flourish into her own solo act.

Steph is the one I'm worried about, with all the Bat-changes she's likely to disapear...if anyone needed the Batgirl title it's her. This would create the opportunity for her skills to grow, keep up the Tim connection... the only thing that keeps me from thinking this would happen is that Steph would never take Cass's title...

[carabas]

Barbara's position as Oracle is established, enviable, and honored...Or at least that's how it used to be for years. Recently though, ever since Gail simone left Birds Of Prey, really, Oracle has been portrayed as a completely ineffective loser who doesn't have a clue what she's doing.

[Captain Jim]

True, but I don't think Steph is incompetent.

I think that whole War Games mess disagrees ;)

It isn't Steph that's incompetent; it's the editorial "geniuses" that mandated that mess.

[SensorBoy]

Cassandra worked as Batgirl due to the gelling of the various aspects of the character.

She was basically the Bat-Gimp. An emotionally-damaged (but non-psychotic) monosyllabic attack dog, running around in the most inhuman of the various "Bat-derived" costumes, possessing one talent: fighting.
Essentially, the logical far-end of the Bat-Spectrum, with the rest of the various Bat characters actually helping her (as their various oddnesses are rather minor, relative to hers) function as a human being, while she lends a hand as the team pile-driver.

The character worked, holistically. That's why people liked her.

[bdk91939]

Cass grew on me especially during her series under K. Puckett's and A. Gabyrych's helms. She should wear the mantle of Batgirl. Plus she's like the most dangerous fighter in the planet. She defeated Lady Shiva. Let's not forget that.

[Chiroptera]

As much as I like Oracle, there has always been only one Batgirl in my eyes and I've had a beef with Alan Moore ever since he got her stuck in a wheel chair.

If Babs became BG again I might actually have a reason to read about it.

[Nate Grey]

If it was up to me (and its not), even though Gail Simone's plate is already full, I'd still give her Batgirl (Cassandra) for one year. I think she'd do wonders for Cass. After that year, don't know.

[Nate Grey]

Cassandra worked as Batgirl due to the gelling of the various aspects of the character.

She was basically the Bat-Gimp. An emotionally-damaged (but non-psychotic) monosyllabic attack dog, running around in the most inhuman of the various "Bat-derived" costumes, possessing one talent: fighting.
Essentially, the logical far-end of the Bat-Spectrum, with the rest of the various Bat characters actually helping her (as their various oddnesses are rather minor, relative to hers) function as a human being, while she lends a hand as the team pile-driver.

The character worked, holistically. That's why people liked her.

I agree 100%. It sucks Didio didn't get or understand this. At all.

[Lorendiac]

As much as I like Oracle, there has always been only one Batgirl in my eyes and I've had a beef with Alan Moore ever since he got her stuck in a wheel chair.

If Babs became BG again I might actually have a reason to read about it.

For what it's worth, I hear that Alan Moore himself has said that in retrospect the whole thing ("The Killing Joke") was a bad idea. And let's face it: He certainly hasn't spent the last two decades holding guns to people's heads at DC and forcing them to keep Babs stuck in the wheelchair. Any time the editors really wanted to give her a miracle cure, they could do so! Moore isn't stopping them!

[Alejandro]

Well saying it as a statement hadnt changed her being one of the big ones in the poll so i will make it as a question to see what I get....

How do you seriously expect Barbara to be Bat- GIRL and work, NOW?
You are not thinking some weird rejuvenetion stuff are you? <_< >_>

[earl]

Cassandra Cain - To be honest, she has a cool character name and odd background that would fit into many stories. I don't think she necessarily has to be 'Batgirl' to be a usable character in the DC Universe. She really should just go around as Cassandra Cain.

Barbara Gordon - I think having her go back to being Batgirl would be a step back, especially if they are going to have a Batwoman. That being said, with all of the technology in the DC universe, it seems odd that she should be stuck being in a wheel chair. Oracle is a cool and unique character.

Stephanie Brown - I think this is the best option and I would have it that she is working direct with Barbara Gordon, basically being her protege. She has an interesting back story being a daughter of a crook, where Barb was daughter of a cop that has a nice symmetry.

Beryl Hutchinson - She is already a cool character as is, why make her into Batgirl? I would think that would be a mistake. I'd rather see a mini-series origin of Knight and Squire and work on those characters as is.

[Alan2099]

I'm all for Babs.
I never liked Cass.

[Static-Pulse]

Beryl Hutchinson - She is already a cool character as is, why make her into Batgirl? I would think that would be a mistake. I'd rather see a mini-series origin of Knight and Squire and work on those characters as is.

I'd get a Knight & Squire book. That said, giving Beryl her own solo title, even if she has to be Batgirl to get a solo title, would please me more. In my mind, Beryl combines all the fun of a teenage heroine (Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown, etc.) with the intellect and sci-fi potential of Planetary's Drummer. She'd be the best of Barbara as Batgirl and Barbara as Oracle. That's why I voted for her.

Frankly, I hope the do make Barbara Batgirl, because the last few years of her as Oracle have been painful to read. You can tell the writers are about as out of ideas for her now as they were when TKJ came out.

[Wonder Dude]

The original Batgirl: Betty Kane!

[Captain Jim]

Well saying it as a statement hadnt changed her being one of the big ones in the poll so i will make it as a question to see what I get....

How do you seriously expect Barbara to be Bat- GIRL and work, NOW?
You are not thinking some weird rejuvenetion stuff are you? <_< >_>

I talk about that here >> http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=263665

[Hawk_fan]

Bette Kane is in her early twenties, so she could still be called "Bat-Girl". It would be a fun tale if she became Bat-Girl for awhile in Detective. :wink:

[Redrumbin]

As much as I like Babs, she's too old now. She's a woman, not a girl.

[Lorendiac]

As much as I like Babs, she's too old now. She's a woman, not a girl.

On the other hand -- according to the original continuity (as reprinted in the first "Showcase Presents: Batgirl" volume), when Babs first put on a costume and called herself "Batgirl," she had already completed a Ph.D. in Library Science and was working as the head of one of Gotham's libraries. Which suggests she was at least in her mid-20s. Definitely a grown woman, rather than a schoolgirl. But it didn't bother her a bit to call herself "Batgirl" instead of "Batwoman," so why it bother her now?

(Especially since, what with all the subsequent retcons, it's possible that she's still not even 30 years old yet in the modern continuity!)

[Henker]

It's interesting to see the results now that this poll has been up for a month. Steph is in third place, exactly where I expected her to be. Poor Charlie still has zero votes. Cass and Babs I find the most interesting, since I honestly expected their positions to be reversed.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

It's interesting to see the results now that this poll has been up for a month. Steph is in third place, exactly where I expected her to be. Poor Charlie still has zero votes. Cass and Babs I find the most interesting, since I honestly expected their positions to be reversed.

Check out the Newsarama poll here (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/040913-Batgirl-Poll.html), similar results. I agree that it is interesting.

[Lorendiac]

Remember -- to anyone who only started reading DC's comic books within the last twenty years, Barbara Gordon has never really been "Batgirl" to them.

The way they probably see it, Barbara is: "That redhead in the wheelchair who says she used to be Batgirl an awfully long time ago . . . and every once in awhile there's a flashback story that confirms it . . . but her 'career' as a costumed heroine ended ages ago, so to me it's just another historical footnote!"

P.S. Just to clarify something -- I don't fall into the category of reader which I just described. I started buying "Batman" and "Detective Comics" in the early 1980s, and later collected issues of 'Tec from the last few years before I had started buying them new, so I had the idea of "Babs is Batgirl" firmly embedded in my psyche years before I ever saw a copy of "The Killing Joke" or any of her later appearances as "Oracle." Nevertheless, I went right ahead and voted for Cassandra Cain, both on this poll and on the Newsarama one! I imagine Cassandra probably picked up some other voters who, like me, remember Babs-as-Batgirl vividly, but who also feel there's no overwhelming need to "turn back the clock" by making Babs play that same role all over again after so long!

[Henker]

Remember -- to anyone who only started reading DC's comic books within the last twenty years, Barbara Gordon has never really been "Batgirl" to them.

The way they probably see it, Barbara is: "That redhead in the wheelchair who says she used to be Batgirl an awfully long time ago . . . and every once in awhile there's a flashback story that confirms it . . . but her 'career' as a costumed heroine ended ages ago, so to me it's just another historical footnote!"
A lot of those people grew up watching Batman: The Animated Series though. Barbara was Batgirl in that series, while Cass wasn't even created until the show went off the air. Babs was also Batgirl in The Batman.

[bdk91939]

I just realized there are no votes for Charlotte-Radcliffe Gage aka MISFIT in the Birds of Prey title. She's the girl with the powers of teleportation that was wearing a sort of Batgirl costume last year.

Check out the Newsarama poll here (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/040913-Batgirl-Poll.html), similar results. I agree that it is interesting.

Thanks for sharing this. So far in the Newsarama poll it's:

Cassandra Cain 2,898 votes
Barbara Gordon 2,380 votes
Stephaine Brown 2,214 votes
Betty Kane 356 votes
Misfit 187 votes
Other 311 votes

Looks like a lot of people really want Cassandra to continue being the Batgirl.

[jenapen]

My problem with that poll is that you can vote as many times as you like. I mean I could go on there and vote over and over again for whichever one I wanted and try to make a difference.

That aside I'd like either Steph or Beryl to be the new Batgirl, I don't feel I know Misfit well enough to say I don't want her to be her. Oddly enough I think I don't want Babs or Cass to be her.

[Captain Jim]

I agree that the poll results are interesting. But of course this has no bearing whatsoever on DC's decision.

[frostedone]

Cass does have quite the fanbase.

I grew up on Batman: The Animated Series, but Cassandra is still the Batgirl to me.

[SensorBoy]

Of course, this being the current DC, the Batgirl who appears in issue #1 might not be the Batgirl in issue #12....

[RonnieThunderbolts]

I am like Lorendiac and frostedone, I knew Barbara as Batgirl, but prefer Cassandra. in the role presently. I grew up first with the Adam West show in reruns, then with the comics right after Crisis on Infinite Earths, but reading both current comics and back issues, and starting with Batman comics primarily. I don't really see it as a "the Batgirl" type of situation for me, Barbara was the Batgirl I was introduced to, and I saw her again in the animated series, but I would prefer for Cassandra to be Batgirl and for Barbara to be Oracle. It has nothing to do with nostalgia, or being more of a Cassandra fan or Barbara fan as others insist from time to time, but rather of differing opinions for many of us. I enjoyed Barbara as Batgirl, and I still enjoy reading old comics, flashback tales, and seeing old cartoon episodes, but I don't see any benefit to her going back to that role in the comics, though I can respect those who feel differently, as long as they can do the same.

[Captain Jim]

Of course, this being the current DC, the Batgirl who appears in issue #1 might not be the Batgirl in issue #12....

Good point.

[Blight]

Of course, this being the current DC, the Batgirl who appears in issue #1 might not be the Batgirl in issue #12....

Not to mention the creative team could be changed in a heartbeat. I prefer Cass at the moment. Just for the fact that she's been given such a raw deal by DC in the past few years. Another ten years from now though, yeah new Batgirl time.

[Constantine Drakon]

As I said elsewhere:

I'm honestly sick of the whole thing at this point. Batgirl fans have been getting jerked around for years now. "Batgirl's getting canceled, but there's going to be a Batwoman! Who will it be, Cassandra or Babs? Neither! Also, Cassandra is no longer Batgirl, and she's evil. Wait no, she's not evil, maybe. Read World War III to find out nothing of significance! See Teen Titans to find out she's not evil, possibly! Well, maybe she is evil, she just killed a man, does this come before or after the bit where she was mind controlled? Also she's on Outsiders, and Batgirl again, only she's not on the Outsiders any more (you'll prefer Geo-Force and Owl-Man, we're sure of it!). Okay, apparently she's not evil BUT maybe she kinda is? Let's have Adam Beechen explain. Also: she's not going to be Batgirl, for the second time, and maybe Oracle will. Oracle's not going to be Oracle any more, maybe she walks, maybe not, she's in something with a guy trying to find a supercure that can cure anything (hmmm, maybe that'll fix her), it'll have big effects on the Birds of Prey, who definitely aren't going to get their own book again. Here's a picture of Nightwing in the future kissing a redheaded Bat-female, what could it mean? Stay tuned, we'll hint at something when we feel like it, then change our minds and tell you something different."

Enough wandering around in the dark aimlessly, enough teasing, enough sly winks, enough "here's Batgirl (lol, you can't see who it is)".

Give it to me straight, Doc.

__

I'm not even the biggest of Cassandra Cain fans. I definitely think she could have worked, with a little tweaking, toning down a few of the things she could do to make her fit with the rest of the "family" better.

At this point though, I have to wonder what on earth DC is thinking. Her series was selling decently. Not great, not horrible, enough to suggest a good fanbase. Same with Birds of Prey. To put Babs back as Batgirl would probably get some fans, but would likely anger plenty of people too (Gail Simone herself has said it would be "insane").

Of course, if Cassandra ends up Batgirl, then all this baiting and teasing is just going to annoy the "Babs as Batgirl" fans that got their hopes up. This probably destroys a lot of the goodwill Cassandra might have built up over the years, in that segment of the readership.

And if it's some new third candidate... well considering how well Cassandra got handled in the end, there's good reason for readers to be reluctant to get attached to a new Batgirl. What can she hope for?

"Come try out the new Batgirl! We promise a few appearances in an initial crossover! This will be followed by ever-decreasing use, to the point where she gets cut out of guest appearances almost entirely, and gets left out of major crossovers! Then we'll have a hard time knowing what to do with her, strip her of the title, give it back, then take it away again to try with a whole new character!"

I remember how Dick initially became Nightwing, just as a progression from Robin, with him saying "it's been long enough, it's time for me to move on." And then, with Dick in a good place, we got a new Robin.

The Batgirl situation makes me think of a kid that wants a new pet, after neglecting and starving the one he has to the point where it's on its last legs. It makes me think of my mother, all those years ago, saying "eat what's on your plate, then maybe you can have more." It makes me want to go "fix what you've already got before you try something new." But most of all, it makes me go "I miss when Denny O'Neil was in charge."

Edit: Oh sure, a minute ago this wouldn't send. Once I decide it would go better in the other thread, it decides to show up here.

[Deathstroke]

I'm in favor of keeping Cassandra as Batgirl.

[Oblivion87]

I voted for Cassandra.

lol Misfit has 0 votes so far.

[Sharpandpointies]

As I said elsewhere:

I'm honestly sick of the whole thing at this point. Batgirl fans have been getting jerked around for years now. "Batgirl's getting canceled, but there's going to be a Batwoman! Who will it be, Cassandra or Babs? Neither! Also, Cassandra is no longer Batgirl, and she's evil. Wait no, she's not evil, maybe. Read World War III to find out nothing of significance! See Teen Titans to find out she's not evil, possibly! Well, maybe she is evil, she just killed a man, does this come before or after the bit where she was mind controlled? Also she's on Outsiders, and Batgirl again, only she's not on the Outsiders any more (you'll prefer Geo-Force and Owl-Man, we're sure of it!). Okay, apparently she's not evil BUT maybe she kinda is? Let's have Adam Beechen explain. Also: she's not going to be Batgirl, for the second time, and maybe Oracle will. Oracle's not going to be Oracle any more, maybe she walks, maybe not, she's in something with a guy trying to find a supercure that can cure anything (hmmm, maybe that'll fix her), it'll have big effects on the Birds of Prey, who definitely aren't going to get their own book again. Here's a picture of Nightwing in the future kissing a redheaded Bat-female, what could it mean? Stay tuned, we'll hint at something when we feel like it, then change our minds and tell you something different."

Enough wandering around in the dark aimlessly, enough teasing, enough sly winks, enough "here's Batgirl (lol, you can't see who it is)".

Give it to me straight, Doc.

__

I'm not even the biggest of Cassandra Cain fans. I definitely think she could have worked, with a little tweaking, toning down a few of the things she could do to make her fit with the rest of the "family" better.

At this point though, I have to wonder what on earth DC is thinking. Her series was selling decently. Not great, not horrible, enough to suggest a good fanbase. Same with Birds of Prey. To put Babs back as Batgirl would probably get some fans, but would likely anger plenty of people too (Gail Simone herself has said it would be "insane").

Of course, if Cassandra ends up Batgirl, then all this baiting and teasing is just going to annoy the "Babs as Batgirl" fans that got their hopes up. This probably destroys a lot of the goodwill Cassandra might have built up over the years, in that segment of the readership.

And if it's some new third candidate... well considering how well Cassandra got handled in the end, there's good reason for readers to be reluctant to get attached to a new Batgirl. What can she hope for?

"Come try out the new Batgirl! We promise a few appearances in an initial crossover! This will be followed by ever-decreasing use, to the point where she gets cut out of guest appearances almost entirely, and gets left out of major crossovers! Then we'll have a hard time knowing what to do with her, strip her of the title, give it back, then take it away again to try with a whole new character!"

I remember how Dick initially became Nightwing, just as a progression from Robin, with him saying "it's been long enough, it's time for me to move on." And then, with Dick in a good place, we got a new Robin.

The Batgirl situation makes me think of a kid that wants a new pet, after neglecting and starving the one he has to the point where it's on its last legs. It makes me think of my mother, all those years ago, saying "eat what's on your plate, then maybe you can have more." It makes me want to go "fix what you've already got before you try something new." But most of all, it makes me go "I miss when Denny O'Neil was in charge."

Edit: Oh sure, a minute ago this wouldn't send. Once I decide it would go better in the other thread, it decides to show up here.

I was planning on saying something, but this seems to have summed it up.

Eloquently.

[Lorendiac]

After reading Constantine Drakon's summary of the misadventures of Cassandra Cain over the last three years, all I can say is: I'm very proud of myself for having steadfastly refused to "reward bad behavior on DC's part" where poor Cass is concerned. In other words, I have not spent a dime on any of the stories referred to in that summary, neither in their original format nor in TPB collections. Reading other people's gripes has been enough to let me feel I knew as much as I needed to know about how terribly inconsistent it all was.

Come to think of it, my attitude to recent Cassandra-centric stories has been quite similar to how I felt in the mid-90s when Marvel began the sequence of events which are now unfondly remembered as the notorious "Clone Saga" in the Spider-Titles. I took a quick look at "Peter Parker" coming face-to-face with "Ben Reilly" in one story, and I heard rumors that Marvel was planning to reveal (as they later did) that "Peter" was actually the clone and "Ben" was actually the long-lost original . . . and then I decided this had "train wreck" written all over it and just washed my hands of the Spider-titles for years, muttering, "Somebody wake me up when it's over!"

[SMMM]

Go Charlie! DAAAAAARRRKK VEENGEANCEE

[d newton]

I'm honestly sick of the whole thing at this point. Batgirl fans have been getting jerked around for years now. "Batgirl's getting canceled, but there's going to be a Batwoman! Who will it be, Cassandra or Babs? Neither! Also, Cassandra is no longer Batgirl, and she's evil. Wait no, she's not evil, maybe. Read World War III to find out nothing of significance! See Teen Titans to find out she's not evil, possibly! Well, maybe she is evil, she just killed a man, does this come before or after the bit where she was mind controlled? Also she's on Outsiders, and Batgirl again, only she's not on the Outsiders any more (you'll prefer Geo-Force and Owl-Man, we're sure of it!). Okay, apparently she's not evil BUT maybe she kinda is? Let's have Adam Beechen explain. Also: she's not going to be Batgirl, for the second time, and maybe Oracle will. Oracle's not going to be Oracle any more, maybe she walks, maybe not, she's in something with a guy trying to find a supercure that can cure anything (hmmm, maybe that'll fix her), it'll have big effects on the Birds of Prey, who definitely aren't going to get their own book again. Here's a picture of Nightwing in the future kissing a redheaded Bat-female, what could it mean? Stay tuned, we'll hint at something when we feel like it, then change our minds and tell you something different."

Ever heard of the Enter key - that would help people read what you wrote.

[Crowforge]

I don't care, pick someone and stick with her. Passing the name around makes it meaningless.

[neverman]

As much as I like Babs, she's too old now. She's a woman, not a girl.


A Barbara Batwoman would have rocked. Too bad DC decided to dig up Kathy Kane.

[neverman]

I don't care, pick someone and stick with her. Passing the name around makes it meaningless.

I totally agree. Having a revolving door of Batgirl and Robin characters lessens the role and the respect it commands. Personally, I believe DC has way too many "mantle" characters. Do we really need multiple versions of so many characters? IMHO, most characters should have unique identities, rather than being the "new" Wonder Girl, Flash or whatever.

[olympichero62]

Definitely Barbara Gordon. Anyone else in my opinion just wont cut it.

[neverman]

"Remember -- to anyone who only started reading DC's comic books within the last twenty years, Barbara Gordon has never really been "Batgirl" to them."

How could a DC fan not know about current/recent Barbara/Batgirl comics? Batgirl stories still get published. Heck, there's a TPB of the Batgirl/Catwoman five-part story from Batman Confidential coming out in early December. And the Showcase volume was released about a year ago. Also, Batgirl: Year One came out just a few years ago; it had a pretty big profile and sales for a book with a female lead. Also, there's all kinds of merchandise out there. If you go to Toys R Us, you'll find a few different Batgirl/Barbara toys (action figures, Barbie). And She's been on all the Batman cartoons. I think most comic readers are well aware of Barbara's Batgirl.

[invisiboy]

I don't see why we even need a Batgirl. She got shot - no need to make another one. (and another ... and another ...)

[David Walton]

I just read Batgirl #1 and I enjoyed it very much. So Steph works for me right now as long as the writing stays at this level.

The bad news is this is another must-have title I probably can't afford. Not the worst problem to have, all things considered.

[Captain Jim]

I think this thread has served its purpose.