Jason Todd Stories

[Enjoypolydor]

Other than "Death in the Family" I can't seem to find any stories that have him as Robin. I know he wasn't popular but he's bound to be in more than one major story line.

[crashvice]

oddly enough i've been hanging around in the jason period this week. he only lasts for about twenty issues of Batman (408-428 iirc and i probably don't). I may be wrong but I think 'Arkham Asylum' and 'Killing Joke' are jason era and he isn't in either. So 'The Cult' is about as 'big' as he gets.

I've always felt 'The Kid From Crime Alley' was a bit silly, not so much the tyre boosting but the evil orphanage batman leaves him in. He's in the Alan Moore supes story 'For The Man Who Has Everything' (Superman Annual 11 '85) ogling Wonder Woman. He's in 'Ten Nights of the Beast' (417-420 but not much).

I think the Jason stuff that most sticks in my mind is the dumpster killer/diplomat's son stuff from 414 and 421 - 425, it leads nicely into death in the family, which i'm not too keen on (i like aparo but i've never really liked his joker).

I can't say whether there is any pertinent Jason stuff from 'tec during this period.

[Violently Apathetic]

Only the above mentioned 'The Cult' storyline and the issues with the diplomat's son really seem to fit the bill. Jason Todd was never given much of a chance to grow and develop as a character, being hamstrung by writers who disliked the Robin concept and (argueably) a public that seemed to prefer Batman as a solo vigilante.

[Batman was taken]

Yeah, he only had a handful of issues Post-Crisis, and Pre-Crisis, he was a totally different character.

In terms of "stories", The Cult and Death in the Family are really his only two.

[Seraku]

um ... ...

oh wait, Alan Moore's "For the Man Who Has Everything" has Jason Robin, he was even instrumental in beating Mongul

[Oceanus]

That's the pre-Crisis Jason Todd, though. In fact, Wonder Woman accidentally calls him Dick because she can't tell the difference (a bit of an in-joke there).

Is this question just about post-Crisis Jason or all Jason Todd appearances?

[Seraku]

just Jason as Robin I think

[Enjoypolydor]

Is this question just about post-Crisis Jason or all Jason Todd appearances?

Post is fine. That's where he's Red Hood right?

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Post is fine. That's where he's Red Hood right?

Yeah, the Post-Crisis is the version that became the Red Hood. As other have mentioned, functionally Jason Todd is a completely different character after Crisis. The name and role as Bruce's second Robin are about all they share.

Difference 1: Pre-Crisis Jason was a red-head who dyed his hair to more closely resemble Dick. That is not entirely illogical, as it would help mask the change to civilians and villains, but still pretty creepy to replace your adopted son with a double and make him dye his hair to make him resemble him more, all the more creepy when you consider....

Difference 2: Pre-Crisis Jason was an acrobat, a part of the Flying Todds along with his parents, and became Bruce's ward after they were killed by Killer Croc.

Difference 3: An original personality! Jason Todd got one Post-Crisis. Pre-Crisis Jason was JUST like a young Dick. Cheerful and happy, positive and light-hearted, not the hard, tough and streetwise kid from Crime Alley that Max Allan Collins would introduce after Batman Year One.

It is weird, because there are differences in origins for Dick and Bruce as well, although thinking of them as the same character isn't difficult because they are mostly the same. With Jason, very little of his character survived Crisis.

[Avarax]

I seem to remember hearing about an arc in which Jason, as Robin, may have killed someone? I think it had something to do with a guy who had gotten off a charge through a technicality and Jason went to 'get justice'. I think all you see is Jason talking to the guy and then a shot of the guy falling. Jason tells Batman that the guy just fell, but you are left to wonder if that's what really happened......


Anyone have any clue what I'm talking about?

[nepenthes]

Jason Todd the street kid existed for barely more than a year before he was killed. So there wasn't much time for decent stories to begin with.

Apart from The Cult, there's the Millennium crossover where he helped save the universe form aliens, and the lead-up to Death in the Fam where be begins to act like an arse and murders a rapist, "the Diplomats Son". Cult and Death are the only collected, leaving only Under the Hood for further Jason Tod reading

Searching is always good
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=261024

[Batman was taken]

I seem to remember hearing about an arc in which Jason, as Robin, may have killed someone? I think it had something to do with a guy who had gotten off a charge through a technicality and Jason went to 'get justice'. I think all you see is Jason talking to the guy and then a shot of the guy falling. Jason tells Batman that the guy just fell, but you are left to wonder if that's what really happened......


Anyone have any clue what I'm talking about?

http://comicbookdb.com/issue.php?ID=20672

It's been years since I read it, but I'm 99% sure that's what lead to Batman "grounding" him, which leads into Death in the Family.

http://comicbookdb.com/character_chron.php?ID=83
Don't know why I didn't think of that sooner, but, that's a list of Jason's Post-Crisis appearances. There's not a lot.

[Avarax]

http://comicbookdb.com/issue.php?ID=20672

It's been years since I read it, but I'm 99% sure that's what lead to Batman "grounding" him, which leads into Death in the Family.

http://comicbookdb.com/character_chron.php?ID=83
Don't know why I didn't think of that sooner, but, that's a list of Jason's Post-Crisis appearances. There's not a lot.


Hey thanks man, I'll look around for this stuff. Useful link too!

Alex

[Captain Jim]

Yeah, he only had a handful of issues Post-Crisis, and Pre-Crisis, he was a totally different character.

Personally, I liked the character much better pre-crisis and thought the stories he was in back then were a lot better too.

It's funny how so many people seem to agree that the character was "improved" post-crisis. Yeah, improved so much that he was killed off after a handful of issues. :rolleyes:

[nepenthes]

http://comicbookdb.com/issue.php?ID=20672

It's been years since I read it, but I'm 99% sure that's what lead to Batman "grounding" him, which leads into Death in the Family.

http://comicbookdb.com/character_chron.php?ID=83
Don't know why I didn't think of that sooner, but, that's a list of Jason's Post-Crisis appearances. There's not a lot.

Batman never actually took Jason off duty, they were working together right up to Death in the Family. He did explicitly tell him not to directly pursue the Joker though and Jason was acting out of line before the arc even started. Along with seemingly murdering the diplomats son he also shoots a gun at security guards after Batman tells him to "hold them off", ha ha :cool:


That list of appearances is also a little off. Jason remained unchanged for more than a year after Infinite Crisis ended, about a year and a half before they got to revamping him in 1987. Batman himself was overhauled in Year One before they reworked Jason even. So alot of those appearances are not actually "post Crisis Jason" even though they *were* published after the event.

Also the issue where the street kid version first appeared isn't even included on that list, it's Batman 408, with the classic image of Jason stealing the batmobile tyres on the cover.

Personally, I liked the character much better pre-crisis and thought the stories he was in back then were a lot better too.

It's funny how so many people seem to agree that the character was "improved" post-crisis. Yeah, improved so much that he was killed off after a handful of issues. :rolleyes:

I don't get this, is it because he was basically Dick Grayson and you happen to like Dick Grayson, or do you perceive some actual difference between the two?

[Batman Examiner]

I think there was an issue where Jason took a machine gun and turned on some thugs lol.

[Captain Jim]

I don't get this, is it because he was basically Dick Grayson and you happen to like Dick Grayson, or do you perceive some actual difference between the two?

Between which two, the earlier Jason and Dick? Yes I think they're different. I think this whole deal that "they had the same origin" is a huge overstatement. As I recall, Dick's parents were not eaten by crocs. Yes, both pairs were circus acrobats, but the circumstances of their deaths were entirely different.

And as stated earlier, the original Jason was a redhead who had to die his hair. You could argue that physically, the later version of the character was more like Dick than the first.

And I simply liked the stories of that era. particularly the ones written by Gerry Conway. The original Croc was a great villain; the current one is a joke.

Probably more than anything else, I resented having a fairly new character at the time, whom I had learned to like, totally transformed into an entirely different person. And I thought the notion of Batman taking in a street kid with criminal tendencies and making him Robin to be both unappealing and unrealistic. And while I am a big fan of much of Max Collins' other work, I didn't like any of his Batman stuff.

If the "new" Jason was such a great character, why did they get rid of him so quickly? (And you can't blame the fans for this; DC obviousy was okay with this, or they never would have allowed it.)

[Violently Apathetic]

If the "new" Jason was such a great character, why did they get rid of him so quickly? (And you can't blame the fans for this; DC obviousy was okay with this, or they never would have allowed it.)

To be fair, the writers at the time (Starlin in particular) had wanted to get rid of Robin for some time, making Jason Todd unlikeable was simply their way of making Robin's exit more palatable to the readers. Hell, Starlin was seriously considering having Robin die of AIDS, which says something about his attitude towards the character.

I don't think many people are saying Jason Todd ver.2.0 was a great character, only that he offered something different, and arguably much more dynamic and interesting, than his predecessor.

[Captain Jim]

To be fair, the writers at the time (Starlin in particular) had wanted to get rid of Robin for some time, making Jason Todd unlikeable was simply their way of making Robin's exit more palatable to the readers. Hell, Starlin was seriously considering having Robin die of AIDS, which says something about his attitude towards the character.

I don't think many people are saying Jason Todd ver.2.0 was a great character, only that he offered something different, and arguably much more dynamic and interesting, than his predecessor.

Definitely different. The rest is arguable indeed.

[Chad]

Between which two, the earlier Jason and Dick? Yes I think they're different. I think this whole deal that "they had the same origin" is a huge overstatement. As I recall, Dick's parents were not eaten by crocs. Yes, both pairs were circus acrobats, but the circumstances of their deaths were entirely different.

I liked how the writers really played up the fact that Jason Todd inherited a world that been shaped in large part by his predecesor. Dick Grayson had been with Batman almost from the start - he was there when Batman met the Joker, Catwoman, Penguin, Two-Face (pretty much everyone except the Monk, Dr Death, and Hugo Strange basically) and yeah, his origin started off similiarly to Grayson's. Except in Dick Grayson's day, when your parents got caught up in some underhanded extortion scheme at the circus, it meant that they would be killed and you'd have to go after some everyday Crime Boss who would be put away and never seen again. Simple. Unfortunately, that wasn't the way Gotham worked after it had Batman and Robin as it's protectors for 10 or so years. Now being a circus aerialist whose parents were targeted by the mob, meant that the parents were fed to crocodiles by a freakish and recent addition to Batman's Rogues Gallery who you would no doubt encounter again; that their deaths would be due in part to the first Robin asking them to keep tabs on the man who would kill them; and that when Batman went to take down this new foe he did so only after running a gauntlet through about 50 or so of his greatest nemesises offering a helpful glimpse of what would soon lie in store for you on any given night.

But it gets better. You know you're inexperienced and thankfully the guy training you knows this as well. Unfortunately, Gotham simply thinks that you're the original Robin having come out of retirement. Meaning, when Crazy Quilt has spent the past couple of years vowing to get revenge on Robin for having blinded him during a previous encounter, you're the fresh, faced rookie that he's coming for with both barrells blazing. The Joker's got a machine gun aimed right at Batman's chest and is about to pull the trigger? Good thing Batman has practiced what to do in this situation about a 1000 times in the past with Dick Grayson...except, you're Jason Todd.

Life wasn't any easier outside of the Robin costume either. Back in 1940, it seemed pretty easy to adopt a kid whose parents had just died. In 1983 however, when you never fill out any adoption papers and the new "son" in your care comes to school covered in bruises and can't explain why he's never home late at night, Child and Family will take away that child and hand him over to one of Batman's enemies who had the foresight to see this coming.

I can't help but wonder if the reason for giving Jason Todd a background that was so similar to Dick Grayson's was due to the writers knowledge that upcoming stories would wildly diverge from what Robin 1 experienced and therefore would be able to offer his origin as a way of saying "Look, they're not that different".

There was a lot that happened in Batman's world that was directly due to Jason Todd's presence most notably Batman's relationship with Catwoman leading to a more prominent role for Harvey Bullock because Jason had to reluctantly turn to the other new guy on the scene for help and the introduction of Nocturna as the woman who would steal Jason from Bruce Wayne which also led into the Night Slayer storyline. All in the space of three years.

[nepenthes]

Between which two, the earlier Jason and Dick? Yes I think they're different. I think this whole deal that "they had the same origin" is a huge overstatement. As I recall, Dick's parents were not eaten by crocs. Yes, both pairs were circus acrobats, but the circumstances of their deaths were entirely different.

And as stated earlier, the original Jason was a redhead who had to die his hair. You could argue that physically, the later version of the character was more like Dick than the first.

And I simply liked the stories of that era. particularly the ones written by Gerry Conway. The original Croc was a great villain; the current one is a joke.

Probably more than anything else, I resented having a fairly new character at the time, whom I had learned to like, totally transformed into an entirely different person. And I thought the notion of Batman taking in a street kid with criminal tendencies and making him Robin to be both unappealing and unrealistic. And while I am a big fan of much of Max Collins' other work, I didn't like any of his Batman stuff.

If the "new" Jason was such a great character, why did they get rid of him so quickly? (And you can't blame the fans for this; DC obviousy was okay with this, or they never would have allowed it.)

ok apart from surface details like the crocodiles and hair colour, you still have a kid with essentially the same personality and background as Dick Grayson. this is just highly suspect to me, I'd rather have a character I didn't like over one that is a laughable and lazy echo of an original. It even diminishes Dick Grayson himself in a sense. It's Dick Grayson lite. what's the point other than to re-fill the Robin costume

and I really can't go with JasonII being "more like Dick than the first", simply because he also had black hair. ha ha what the hell is that

The stories were definitely great under Conway though. Absolutely. but still I think this still this says more for the overall period than the character.

The switch would have been jarring sure, I guess it would be different that being younger i wasn't reading at the time. however Batman taking in a deliquent and most likely future criminal young brat is a huge part of the appeal to me. I think it makes perfect sense and adds a signifigant dimension to the character of Bruce Wayne.

I always figured they set-up the phone poll simply to generate hype and an event story. As Denny explains in the intro to the Death tpb they couldn't kill just any old b-level character, it had to be something with real gravity. also remember that the poll was decided by 70 votes or something, out of about 5000 iiirc. it was by no means a clear majority that wanted him dead. and how many of those voted "death" just because they could, or to see if DC would actually do it. there's no way of knowing but it's worth thinking about

[Captain Jim]

The switch would have been jarring sure, I guess it would be different that being younger i wasn't reading at the time. however Batman taking in a deliquent and most likely future criminal young brat is a huge part of the appeal to me. I think it makes perfect sense and adds a signifigant dimension to the character of Bruce Wayne.

If it was a brand new character, I can totally see someone making a case similar to what you state here. But since we are talking about an existing character, I don't think the argument is strong enough to warrent such a sweeping change. I realize that Miller had just done Year One, and I guess that was their excuse to "start over," but, good grief, this was a greater change to continuity than anything Miller had done.

I haven't read the stories since they first appeared, so my recollection of the details is not as clear as it might be. Chad, in the post above, does a much better job explaining the appeal of the original character than I did, and I concur with everything he says.

and how many of those voted "death" just because they could, or to see if DC would actually do it. there's no way of knowing but it's worth thinking about

The answer is, "A lot." I was running a comic shop at the time and the feedback I was hearing from customers was exactly that.

[TROUBLEZ]

That's true, that a street kid turned Robin is a much more interesting dynamic. However, how would they play it? Would he eventually have purged his criminal thinking and become a straight arrow like Dick and Tim?
Or would his actions and dialogue be written to constantly remind readers that he used to come from the streets.
"I used to be like a knucklehead just like these gang bangers, but now I'm ROBIN!"

Either origin works for me, but I don't see how the pre-Crisis one hurt the character.
I mean Wally West just happened to be struck by lightening in the same place, and in the same fashion as Barry and just happened to gain the same powers?

The only post-Crisis version of Jason that I liked was when Mike W. Barr was writing and Alan Davis and Paul Neary was illustrating. Sure he seemed just like Dick but I wasn't around in the 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s to know that.
I always expected Robin to be somewhat cheerful which is the dynamic and contrast of the partnership.

Pre-Crisis I liked the Nocturna storyline a lot.

IMO they never should have killed off Robin. It was a cheap and tacky publicity stunt.
Bruce Wayne going through so many Robins is pretty ridiculous. I guess since TDKR was so popular there was some effort by some writers to move more towards aspects of that comic. Jason's death which was mentioned briefly and the Bat-tank and tv-panels were used again in The Cult.

[Captain Jim]

Either origin works for me, but I don't see how the pre-Crisis one hurt the character.

Exactly!

.......

[Enjoypolydor]

IMO they never should have killed off Robin. It was a cheap and tacky publicity stunt.


Agreed! And then to make it worse they brought him back. Even if they did make a even more interesting character out of him as a anti-hero it killed the realism and cheated the readers.

[Lorendiac]

Yeah, he only had a handful of issues Post-Crisis, and Pre-Crisis, he was a totally different character.

Just to further develop that point: For about three and a half years -- basically all through Doug Moench's first run as a Batman writer on two linked titles in the mid-80s -- Jason Todd (original version) was the new Robin, with an origin story that was largely swiped from Dick Grayson's (since it helps if a new Robin already has years of training in acrobatics, et cetera), with the minor difference that Killer Croc was the guy who had killed Jason's parents, a pair of circus aerialists, after he caught them spying on him.

One problem is that even if you want to read about "Earth-1 Jason's" adventures, you have to collect dozens of flimsy little back issues, since almost none of Moench's "first run" on Batman et al. has ever been collected in convenient reprint editions. Maybe a stray issue here and there, but not several consecutive issues' worth of ongoing occurrences in one volume as a package deal.

I've heard reports that after Frank Miller's "Year One" helped Batman make the transition from his Pre-COIE to Post-COIE continuity, the editors were quietly assuming that for all practical purposes, Moench's recently-concluded run had never happened at all! Hence the subsequent Reboot of Jason Todd with a new origin story and new personality, and the rapid removal of Selina Kyle from Bruce's social life, and the way Vicki Vale was reduced to occasionally getting a cameo without ever seeming like an "old flame" of Bruce's, and the total erasure of Alfred's daughter Julia from continuity . . . all of which may have something to do with why, in the 1990s, DC never bothered to start reprinting arcs from Moench's "first run," not even after they gave him a long "second run" as a Batman writer!

[Deason]

I don't think the post-Crisis Jason Todd was necessarily a great character, but his death was the single most significant one in Bruce's life since his parents were killed. (Even more so than Alfred's pre-Crisis death.) Jason's death informed hundreds of character moments over hundreds of issues. Undoing it, by any means, was, and remains, a gigantic creative blunder. Shame on all involved.

YMMV, of course.

[Chad]

I've heard reports that after Frank Miller's "Year One" helped Batman make the transition from his Pre-COIE to Post-COIE continuity, the editors were quietly assuming that for all practical purposes, Moench's recently-concluded run had never happened at all! Hence the subsequent Reboot of Jason Todd with a new origin story and new personality, and the rapid removal of Selina Kyle from Bruce's social life, and the way Vicki Vale was reduced to occasionally getting a cameo without ever seeming like an "old flame" of Bruce's, and the total erasure of Alfred's daughter Julia from continuity . . . all of which may have something to do with why, in the 1990s, DC never bothered to start reprinting arcs from Moench's "first run," not even after they gave him a long "second run" as a Batman writer!

You should read the letter columns from about Batman 390-400 - it's absolutely fascinating. DC had decided to have Catwoman learn Batman's identity (strangely enough this happened off panel and no explanation was ever given as to how she acquired this knowledge) and begin a relationship with Bruce Wayne. Their on again/off again relationship ran for the duration of the pre-Crisis era with a subtle distinction being introduced during Moench's run - Bruce Wayne wasn't seeing Selina Kyle/Catwoman - Batman was. The difference? One issue showed Batman taking a blindfolded Catwoman to the Batcave. Why, asked readers, did Batman need to hide the location of the Cave from someone who knew his identity? The editors addressed this in their letter pages by announcing that from this moment on, all references to Selina Kyle knowing Batman's identity were striken from the record - Selina Kyle does not know and has never known that Batman is Bruce Wayne. This retcon happened a year before Year One and appeared while Crisis was on something like issue three. Now, either DC had second thoughts about this edict or they simply heard from some of their writers who offered a way to explain how Catwoman could unlearn Batman's identity if that's what they wanted. For this reason, we got Mike Barr and Alan Davis' "Catch as Cat's Can" story in which Dr Moon brainwashed Catwoman thereby erasing her memory of Batman's true identity which allowed those earlier stories to return to the canon...for about one month. See, while this story was going on over in Detective, Frank Miller had just released Year One Part One and Batman's history began again.

When Len Wein took over the Batman titles 30 years ago, he sat down and read literally every Batman story publised up until that time (and if you've read Untold Legend of the Batman you know how well his research paid off). Just a few years later though, those in charge of Batman's continuity were making these bizzare "From this moment on, Bruce Wayne has always had a handlebar moustache" declarations.

Anyways, some of Moench's stuff survived the Crisis. Black Mask escaped unscathed; the Dark Rider returned in 1995; Film Freak showed up only to be killed off in Knightfall (which was a reworking of Moench's Batman 400); and Moench was always carefull to reference Killer Croc's history as the Crime Boss of Gotham when he used the character (whose stories he hadn't even told pre-Crisis).

But yeah...Vicki Vale was updated for the Post-Crisis status quo as a staunch anti-Batman reporter, disappeared for a few years, and then was reintroduced again as if she barely knew Bruce Wayne and had never covered a Batman story in her life.

[Lorendiac]

I don't think the post-Crisis Jason Todd was necessarily a great character, but his death was the single most significant one in Bruce's life since his parents were killed. (Even more so than Alfred's pre-Crisis death.) Jason's death informed hundreds of character moments over hundreds of issues. Undoing it, by any means, was, and remains, a gigantic creative blunder. Shame on all involved.

YMMV, of course.

I've said the same thing over the years. Post-Crisis Jason as a corpse had become much more meaningful in Batman continuity than a "resurrected" Jason could ever hope to be!

[Lorendiac]

You should read the letter columns from about Batman 390-400 - it's absolutely fascinating.

I know I've got those issues, because I've got all of Moench's combined run on "Batman" and "Detective Comics" from the mid-80s, but I admit I don't remember the last time I bothered to reread the lettercols. I'll look into it, though -- I've been thinking lately that maybe I ought to revise and repost a "Timeline of the Various Batman/Catwoman Romances" which I offered on this forum a few years ago. If they were already retconning away her knowledge of his secret even before the "official" transition to Post-COIE continuity, then I ought to mention that in the next draft of my Timeline! :smile:

Now, either DC had second thoughts about this edict or they simply heard from some of their writers who offered a way to explain how Catwoman could unlearn Batman's identity if that's what they wanted. For this reason, we got Mike Barr and Alan Davis' "Catch as Cat's Can" story in which Dr Moon brainwashed Catwoman thereby erasing her memory of Batman's true identity which allowed those earlier stories to return to the canon...for about one month. See, while this story was going on over in Detective, Frank Miller had just released Year One Part One and Batman's history began again.

My old Timeline definitely acknowledged the Barr/Davis story you mention (and how it later appeared to itself be evaporated out of history by other retcons).

I wouldn't say, though, that "Batman's history began again." Unlike what Byrne did to Superman in "Man of Steel," it seems to me that the vast majority of Batman's Silver Age and Bronze Age stories were "still canon" in the late 80s and 90s, as far as anyone could tell. Allowing for changes to specific bits and pieces, such as whether or not he had ever captured and unmasked Catwoman before. It wasn't that his old history had been erased to allow a fresh start from Square One; only that an excuse had been created to allow select portions of it to be implicitly erased or modified as people saw fit in the Post-COIE era.

When Len Wein took over the Batman titles 30 years ago, he sat down and read literally every Batman story publised up until that time (and if you've read Untold Legend of the Batman you know how well his research paid off). Just a few years later though, those in charge of Batman's continuity were making these bizzare "From this moment on, Bruce Wayne has always had a handlebar moustache" declarations.

I hadn't heard he did all that reading. I've owned a b&w paperback reprint of Untold Legend since I was a schoolboy, but I had probably assumed Wein dug up such old bits of Batman lore as "juvenile Bruce once dressed as Robin to conceal his identity when he asked Harvey Harris to teach him detective work" by asking older people at DC for help in remembering and finding any old stories that ought to be acknowledged in a new summary of Bruce's biography.

Anyways, some of Moench's stuff survived the Crisis. Black Mask escaped unscathed; the Dark Rider returned in 1995; Film Freak showed up only to be killed off in Knightfall (which was a reworking of Moench's Batman 400); and Moench was always carefull to reference Killer Croc's history as the Crime Boss of Gotham when he used the character (whose stories he hadn't even told pre-Crisis).

I don't think "survived" is the right way to put it. Based on what I've read elsewhere, I think it would be more accurate to say: "Long after COIE, when Moench was allowed to begin his second run as a Batman writer, he was permitted to retroactively drag a few of his own character creations back into continuity in his new stories. But until then, they'd been out of continuity for awhile!"

[Devil_LeonX]

hey guys recently i have been looking up a bit on Jason todd and according to some some of my friends, online sources mainly wiki, Todd supposedly got the same training that batman did and if i got i'm hearing it right he did it in less than half the time Bruce.Is this true and is he really as good as fighter as Bats was?Because if he is that's bull there should not be many that can fight bats on a equal level i can only think of a few and most are ether trained by Bats and or have the benefits of the supernatural element.Anyway if anyone can answer my question thanks in advance

[Buried Alien]

hey guys recently i have been looking up a bit on Jason todd and according to some some of my friends, online sources mainly wiki, Todd supposedly got the same training that batman did and if i got i'm hearing it right he did it in less than half the time Bruce.Is this true and is he really as good as fighter as Bats was?Because if he is that's bull there should not be many that can fight bats on a equal level i can only think of a few and most are ether trained by Bats and or have the benefits of the supernatural element.Anyway if anyone can answer my question thanks in advance

Jason isn't as good as Batman, but he *might* be as good as Nightwing. In terms of skill, he might not be Nightwing's equal, but he makes up for it through sheer brutality. Jason fights with a brutality that Batman, Nightwing, and Robin never exhibit.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[nepenthes]

UHQ: What was the repercussion of Robin's death? Is it true that American readers hated Jason Todd? And how was the public voting to decide Robin's fate? Do you believe that Robin still have a place in the current Batman universe?

Jim Starlin: Yes, everyone hated Jason Todd. I wanted to kill off Robin as soon as I started writing Batman. The idea of taking a kid along to fight crime is ludicrous. Then Denny O'Neil came up with the phone call-in deal. He immediately started taking complete credit for the idea of killing off Robin.

Then the book came out and the executives up at Time Warner realized they had all these lunch boxes and sheets with robin on them and suddenly it was completely my fault for killing off Robin. Within three months I was gone.


I used to wonder whether Starlin had plans to turn Jason into a villain all along. Not the case it seems :frown:

http://www.universohq.com/quadrinhos/entrevista_starlin_eng01.cfm