Saying Something Nice About The Early Bat Films (Can You Do It?)

[WorstThingUS]

In light of the response to my recent harsh comments about the fanfilm “Grayson” (heh-heh-heh) I started wondering if I could just say positive things about something I found horrible. My thoughts then ran to the pre-Nolan Bat-films for obvious reasons. Now, I disliked every single one of them (eat it, Burton fans, 'cause they sucked too), but this isn’t about that. It’s about finding something positive to say about them all. (deep breath) Okay, here we go:

Batman: Proved Batman could be done seriously and be profitable. Also there was the neo-gothic look of Gotham and the Danny Elfman score. Yeah, that’s all I got. Still the most profitable Batman film ever made when adjusted for inflation.

Batman Returns: Michele Pfeiffer was great as Catwoman. Yeah, that’s it. Well, Christopher Walken is always fun to see.

Batman Forever: Finally a good-looking guy as Batman and a talented actor though he didn’t get to use it. And I’m a Robin fan and no matter what it was good to see him. Also a nice soundtrack. The second highest grossing entry of the original Bat-films.

Batman & Robin: Another good-looking guy as Batman, some decent songs on the soundtrack (though I hate, hate, hate myself for liking R. Kelly’s “Gotham City”).

Gee, that’s a short list. I’m going to say it’s because the movies sucked and not because I’m mean, mean, mean.

Oh, one more thing: when Batman and Robin run at the camera with the bat-signal behind them in Batman Forever. I ever liked it when Batgirl joined them in Batman & Robin (though a wind machine in from of them would really have made the capes fly back like they should have). I really dug that. In fact, it may be the best thing about both. It's the closest thing to understanding the essence of superheroes that Schumacher ever displayed (and it was probably done by a second unit guy with stuntpeople in the costumes):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsUr-yy5NiE

This one actually has commentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbWbZ6q5juQ

HONORABLE MENTION: Catwoman: Halle Berry, Sharon Stone and Benjamin Bratt are all pretty people. Yeah, that's it.

Anybody else?

[Crowforge]

Batman returns is the best batman movie made to date in my opinion.

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Batman returns is the best batman movie made to date in my opinion.

Agreed. In addition to Christopher Walken and Michelle Pfeiffer, Danny Devito was fantastic as Penguin. The movie had a very dark and macabre feel about it that captured the best elements of the better Batman comics.

[Henker]

Batman Returns has wonderful cinematography. The aerial shot of the abandoned zoo particularly stands out.

[dancj]

Batman - Set the template for how most Superhero films since then have been done.

Batman Returns - Was better than Batman. Danny Devito was great, and Christopher Walken is always watchable.

That's all I've got.

[AJM]

Batman Returns is probably the best in cinematic terms, but Batman is probably the better Batman film - at least he's onscreen more in the first, although not as much as the Joker. I never much cared for Jack Nicholson, it seemed to me that he used Cesar Romero as a reference point rather than reading any comics.

I can't stand the other two Schumacher films, they're both horrible, absolutely horrible. I honestly can't think of anything kind to say about them at all.

[Sean Walsh]

I've always had a close place in my heart for BATMAN. Burton, Keaton, Nicholson....Anton Furst's Gotham, Elfman's score and just the darkness all worked perfectly together.

But BATMAN RETURNS was just too dark for my liking. Even when I saw it, I thought it was too much. Penguin and Catwoman's origins were too bizarre and outlandish. It tried to outdo the original and it suffered, I think, in the long haul.

I enjoyed BATMAN FOREVER at the time, but it wears on me every time I see it. The neon, man.....too much freakin' neon.

And I try to ignore BATMAN & ROBIN's existance as much as I can.

[gocryemokid]

This is difficult..
I almost got really into batman when I was younger and saw the movies and then was like.. Oh.. Well I guess batman sucks

Something good something good hmm... Umm.. Uh..

[carabas]

The Burton films, although aged very badly, have incrediblt Danny Elfman scores.
Batman Forever is way better than that Catpwoman film.
And finally, Batman And Robin will be invaluable for decades to come as an example for film students for how not to make films.

[Sizzle]

I loved the score to Returns, the cinematography was great too. The problem I had with it was Batman ripping off his mask at the end. Along with Batman killing.

[STC]

The 1st Batman was better then Batman Return IMO.

[The Cool Thatguy]

The Bat films never gave me cancer.

[Exo]

The atmosphere in the first two Batman movies was fantastic (Gotham City has never looked better IMO).

Batman Forever: Gave us not one, but two Jokers.

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/1924/batmanforever.jpg

And I can't get enough of that clown.

[celticguy]

Batman returns is the best batman movie made to date in my opinion.

i liked both of the two Keaton movies easy to say something nice about them.

the other 2 i blame the scripts more than anything else. They were bad beforethey ever started filming.

[T Hedge Coke]

Batman: Great design aesthetic.

Batman Returns: Wore its fetishes on its sleeve. Had killer penguins.

Batman Forever: Riddler poses lifted directly from early appearances. The bright shininess wasn't necessarily to distract you from a lack of anything else.

Batman and Robin: Somehow, I suspect this is the only time we'll see the Floronic Man in a movie.

[WorstThingUS]

The Bat films never gave me cancer.

We have a winner!

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Batman and Robin: Somehow, I suspect this is the only time we'll see the Floronic Man in a movie.

There is actually a rumor that is he is supposed to be in the Green Arrow movie "Supermax" that is in development about Oliver Queen in a superhuman maximum security prison surrounded by villains he'd apprehended. I think he was framed and has to break out and prove his innocence, not sure though.

[The Cool Thatguy]

We have a winner!

Awesome! What did I win?

[colossus34]

Batman 89 =one word: THE BATMOBILE still my favorite batman car ever made. Also the score was incredible still the definite Batman score. Alfred was brilliantly cast and the set design, costumes were sweet as well as making Batman a badass and taken more seriously as a crimefighter. The Last shot of Batman silhouetted against the Batsignal still gives me chills....

Batman Returns=I loved Penguin's origin story and Burtons ability to make him a more complex, creepy villian than his bland comic book counterpart. Catwoman was AMAZING, Michelle was HOT, seductic, perfectly cast. Once again the score was amazing, Elfman took it to a new level here. The set design and visuals were stunning as well.

Batman Forever=Val Kilmer made a great Wayne, added more complexity to the character and was the first Bat film to explore his demons/past. Chase Meridian made for a very sultry, Bat' screen siren and lite up the screen. Batman's costume/gadgets looked sweet and they actually made Robin believable, relatable and cool as a sidekick. The score was more heroic this time around but just as iconic.

Batman and Robin=Uma Thurman as Poisin Ivy was nice eye candy. She gave the role the sexual flavor it required and made Ivy dark but psychotic and fun. The weakest of the franchise obviously.....

[WorstThingUS]

Awesome! What did I win?

Um, my respect? Hey, where you going?

[T Hedge Coke]

There is actually a rumor that is he is supposed to be in the Green Arrow movie "Supermax" that is in development about Oliver Queen in a superhuman maximum security prison surrounded by villains he'd apprehended. I think he was framed and has to break out and prove his innocence, not sure though.

I think he's at least namechecked in one of the Swamp Thing movies, too, actually. Clearly, I underestimated the love for Woodrue.

[WorstThingUS]

I think he's at least namechecked in one of the Swamp Thing movies, too, actually. Clearly, I underestimated the love for Woodrue.

Ooh, I forgot he was played by John Glover who is also a boon to whatever he does.

[the goddamn batman]

Batman. Yeah, the car. Chicks dig the car. I still love this movie, though. Gotham was great and it gave us a darker Batman than we'd seen outside of the comics... and TAS was spawned from it's success. Also, I had a sweet Joker costume that Halloween!

Batman Returns. I actually just watched this last night. Beautiful set designs. Even if they're not especially 'Batman.' ...and Catwoman.

Batman Forever. ...uh. Kilmer was okay as Wayne? I never liked this movie.

Batman and Robin. Ended the franchise and opened the door for Nolan to reboot the Batman franchise. Truthfully, I've never seen more than 5-10 minutes at a time.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Um, my respect? Hey, where you going?

Bah, I don't want respect, I want money or booze!

[Captain Jim]

I've always had a close place in my heart for BATMAN. Burton, Keaton, Nicholson....Anton Furst's Gotham, Elfman's score and just the darkness all worked perfectly together.

But BATMAN RETURNS was just too dark for my liking. Even when I saw it, I thought it was too much. Penguin and Catwoman's origins were too bizarre and outlandish. It tried to outdo the original and it suffered, I think, in the long haul.

You have expressed my opinion of these two movies perfectly.

[joe27]

Batman: This movie is loaded with great images. Shot of Batman crashing through the skylight probably my favorite visual from any Batman film...The Batmobile driving down that country road...Batman descending behind the muggers on the rooftop.

Batman Returns: Everything about Catwoman...I don't consider it the definitive version of the character but definitely an interesting one and she looks amazing.
Also love the "missile-toe can be deadly if you eat it" scene on the rooftop and the corresponding dance-floor scene where Bruce and Selina discover each other's secret identities.

Batman Forever: Robin was hot. I'm glad they went with an older actor.
And other than the Two-Face killing his parents thing, I think they did a good job with this character. He was handled with more respect than Batman ever was in this franchise.
This movie is sort of a guilty pleasure of mine and the direct reason I got into the Batman comic books.

Batman & Robin: I sort of liked how Two-Face and the Riddler's costumes were shown in the Arkham Asylum storage room.

[Harding Prime]

Batman was my favorite movie from my childhood. Nuff said.

[BeastieRunner]

Batman: Cool car, good score, dark, Gotham had character, and it gave us the TAS.

Returns: Cool happy meal toys.

The rest: I watched them only once?

[Scott Taylor]

Batman - Classic, look. Dated in feel now, but had some great visuals. And, a bunch of really great characterizations, Michael Keaton's bland acting notwithstanding.

Batman Forever - Kind of a return to the campiness of the 1960s, but I loved it. If anything, its main flaw is that it didn't go campy enough and tried to create a serious story at some point.

Batman Returns, Batman and Robin - Didn't particularly care for these.

[Christopher Cross Is God]

It's hard to say anything positive about those films.

Batman --Jack Nicholson had a fun performance, Jack Palance was mildly amusing, the Burton-influenced cinematography looked interesting, and Danny Elfman's score was nice.....The film itself sucked, though, and there's not much else I can think of, in a positive light, for this film. Well, I guess I could say Kim Basinger didn't look half-bad.

Batman Returns --Agreed on Christopher Walken being fun to see.........Sean Young would've been a better Catwoman than Michele Pfeiffer, Burton was a fool for not giving her the part.

Batman Forever --Only good thing was seeing Robin brought in. Other than that? Blah......

Batman & Robin --Ahnold was fun, and Vivica Fox looked good....Agreed on a few decent songs on the soundtrack.

I will say that Tommy Lee Jones & Uma Thurman looked the part for their characters (In their respective films), but I didn't like the execution of the characters, nor the storylines surrounding them.

[Kirayoshi]

I still say that George Clooney would have made possibly the best Batman movie ever, if he had been given a script that could do him justice. Batman and Robin was so far from the right script that it couldn't see the right script due to the curvature of the earth!

Michael Keaton's best moment in his Batman career, IMO, was when he confronted the Joker as Bruce Wayne to protect Vicki Vale. "YOU WANNA GET NUTS? C'MON, LET'S GET NUTS!"

[Dessyfoo]

You forgot the original :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_(1966_film)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060153/

Was on tv last night so I forced myself to watch it again. It was more funny to watch it and get a kick out of how retarded Batman and Robin acted, and the goofy script lines like Robins retarded Holy Heart attack Batman! and

Batman to Robin: "I threw the bomb into the water and dodged behind these metal pipes that just so happened to be sitting here" (so he didnt get blown up) cant recall if my wording is exactly what he said but close enough, you get the idea :P

But Lee Meriwether (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2118555648/nm0580886) as Catwoman Meeeoww! she was fkn hawt back then.

Though Adam West will always be the Batman even with his goofy Shatneresque voice no matter how much I prefer Michael Keaton :biggrin:

[Damiean Dark]

Batman 1966 did have an amazing Riddler in Gorshin though Jim Carey had his moments (and i still think he would have been amazing as the Joker in TDK) but Gorshin had a better all round style and slight menace Carey lacked.

Burtons batmovies are still the ones to beat for me all respect to Nolan for a great interpretation but for me he tried TO hard to be serious and real his batman films are seen as serious and "realistic" because batman is strangely absent in most of them, he reduced Wayne into a wimp rather then a focused crimefighter with a high intelligence and almost symbiotic relationship with the suit which is a tool for him nothing more to clean up Gotham if it was done i can see him easily throwing it in the trash without a thought he was more then willing to give it up for Rachel which was infuriating for me there was no pull to the batman from bruce it was simply "sure all the years thinking about it and ill give it up so easily" stuff.

Batman-Dated but brought us the BEST bruce Wayne yes Keaton wasnt exactlythe look you would expect but the guy was completely beleivable a an absentminded airhead who had a spark about him you cant quite place.

In the suit he is stilll the guy to beat he is the ONLY batman actor to try to create a separate personality for the suited bat his movement changes his eyes and whole person became someone else the real bruce or just a facade? THATS THE BEAUTY OF KEATON DAMMIT!! other actors looked better, had better scripts but where pale in comparison for me=note to all future actors: it takes more then a lower toned voice to create an atmospheric batman=

The true Batmobile was sogreat it equaled (imo topped) the classic 1966 car anyone who tells me Schumachers cars or the Tumbler will ever go down in pop culture in the same way is either A=to young to remember or B=crazy

Gotham looked like a real city that was rotting from corruption from within not chicago or a neon nightmare like later Gothams.

Joker Jack will always be great imo yeah he was overweight and took a cue from Romero but he was more a interpretation of the more traditional Joker then the first appearances (when imo he was dull joker got interesting in the 60s to the late 80s for me) he was outragous, would laugh in different ways (rather then the same laugh repeated in differing scenes) then cry then laugh again, dance and kill you with an assortment of Joker themed appliances despite his mania he had the Joker cunning intelligence to create smelex and outthink batman on more then one occasion there where more facets to his personality then Ledger who was really really good but seemed slightly one note despite how good he was and who had batman running around in a spin there was no clashing of wills and intelligence here simply joker doing what he wanted until the script naturally bent to batman being victorious at the end.

Now that i think about it Ledger didnt even seem the slightest bit crazy he was chaotic and creepy and smart but in no way did i think he was insane in any part of the movie which when you think about it is kind of weird it is THE JOKER after all..

[Deason]

BATMAN RETURNS is probably still the best of all live action Batman movies, the truest to the correct mood of the comics.

[WorstThingUS]

You forgot the original :)


Actually, I didn't. I just think it's a wonderful movie and obviously wasn't of the 80's series. The series and movie were meant to be campy pop art and succeeded wonderfully. So many of the haters simply don't get a lot of what they saw was deliberate. If you think it's easy, look at the Joel Schumacher attempts to emulate it. Twice the budget and time and they failed miserably. From the dialogue to the use of color. My favorite bit? The reason the camera tilted when you first saw the bad guy? Because they were "crooked." Brilliance. And Juliet Newmar? Frank Gorshin's Riddler? The Batmobile? Mr. Freeze? The theme song? All totally awesome.

[Alan2099]

Batman 1966 did have an amazing Riddler in Gorshin though Jim Carey had his moments (and i still think he would have been amazing as the Joker in TDK) but Gorshin had a better all round style and slight menace Carey lacked.

Burtons batmovies are still the ones to beat for me all respect to Nolan for a great interpretation but for me he tried TO hard to be serious and real his batman films are seen as serious and "realistic" because batman is strangely absent in most of them, he reduced Wayne into a wimp rather then a focused crimefighter with a high intelligence and almost symbiotic relationship with the suit which is a tool for him nothing more to clean up Gotham if it was done i can see him easily throwing it in the trash without a thought he was more then willing to give it up for Rachel which was infuriating for me there was no pull to the batman from bruce it was simply "sure all the years thinking about it and ill give it up so easily" stuff.

Batman-Dated but brought us the BEST bruce Wayne yes Keaton wasnt exactlythe look you would expect but the guy was completely beleivable a an absentminded airhead who had a spark about him you cant quite place.

In the suit he is stilll the guy to beat he is the ONLY batman actor to try to create a separate personality for the suited bat his movement changes his eyes and whole person became someone else the real bruce or just a facade? THATS THE BEAUTY OF KEATON DAMMIT!! other actors looked better, had better scripts but where pale in comparison for me=note to all future actors: it takes more then a lower toned voice to create an atmospheric batman=

The true Batmobile was sogreat it equaled (imo topped) the classic 1966 car anyone who tells me Schumachers cars or the Tumbler will ever go down in pop culture in the same way is either A=to young to remember or B=crazy

Gotham looked like a real city that was rotting from corruption from within not chicago or a neon nightmare like later Gothams.

Joker Jack will always be great imo yeah he was overweight and took a cue from Romero but he was more a interpretation of the more traditional Joker then the first appearances (when imo he was dull joker got interesting in the 60s to the late 80s for me) he was outragous, would laugh in different ways (rather then the same laugh repeated in differing scenes) then cry then laugh again, dance and kill you with an assortment of Joker themed appliances despite his mania he had the Joker cunning intelligence to create smelex and outthink batman on more then one occasion there where more facets to his personality then Ledger who was really really good but seemed slightly one note despite how good he was and who had batman running around in a spin there was no clashing of wills and intelligence here simply joker doing what he wanted until the script naturally bent to batman being victorious at the end.

Now that i think about it Ledger didnt even seem the slightest bit crazy he was chaotic and creepy and smart but in no way did i think he was insane in any part of the movie which when you think about it is kind of weird it is THE JOKER after all..

My thoughts exactly.

With Nolan, Batman is a suit Bruce wears.

With Burton and Keaton, we actually have a character who's just slightly off enough to think dressing up in a bat costume and employing as much brutality and theatrics as possible is the best path he can take.