Robin: The Movie... Seriously

[ONSCREEN CHEMISTRY]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/2/1719619_7374387e0d.jpg

This might be old news to a lot of you guys, but for those who haven't seen it a guy named John Fiorella made a fan film for Robin, Batman's sidekick. It's surprisingly well done and has everyone from Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Joker, Riddler. The chick who plays Catwoman has a sweet ass too! Check it out:

http://onscreenchemistry.com/news_article.php?id=155

[T Hedge Coke]

My head hurts six different ways and my soul now wants a trial separation, but a chalk outline with bat-ears never stops being funny does it?

[Alejandro]

OMG that looked very cool. I cant belive its just a tryler(or however it is said, I am a spanish speaker :S) T_T

[WorstThingUS]

It's as crappy now as it was when I saw it years ago. He should hide it, as it's a proof positive why he shouldn't be have a career making films . It's like a sex offender submitting his rap sheet for his interview at a daycare facility. Awful. Simply awful.

[Alejandro]

It's as crappy now as it was when I saw it years ago. He should hide it, as it's a proof positive why he shouldn't be have a career making films . It's like a sex offender submitting his rap sheet for his interview at a daycare facility. Awful. Simply awful.


Why would that be so?

[Abeja]

Well i posted in the other thread for this. But ill put it here too i guess


Thanks for posting this. Ill definitely check this out. Any chance now that DC is doing alot of animated stuff to see a Teen Titans or Robin animated film? Id really like to see something like that especially with a young Grayson and Wally West.

I just watched it. That was very well done. Thank you. I even enjoyed Batman Dead End. Im reading his screenplay for a Robin movie and it is awesome so far. Gordon having a coin that disarms Batmans suit defenses is pretty clever.

[ONSCREEN CHEMISTRY]

It's as crappy now as it was when I saw it years ago. He should hide it, as it's a proof positive why he shouldn't be have a career making films . It's like a sex offender submitting his rap sheet for his interview at a daycare facility. Awful. Simply awful.

Ha that's so harsh. Funny as hell, but harsh...

[ONSCREEN CHEMISTRY]

Well i posted in the other thread for this. But ill put it here too i guess

Much thanks for watching and posting.. twice no less!

[AJM]

It's as crappy now as it was when I saw it years ago. He should hide it, as it's a proof positive why he shouldn't be have a career making films . It's like a sex offender submitting his rap sheet for his interview at a daycare facility. Awful. Simply awful.

Easy, tiger!

I never really liked it much myself, but you've got to admit that it deserves an A for effort.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

It's as crappy now as it was when I saw it years ago. He should hide it, as it's a proof positive why he shouldn't be have a career making films . It's like a sex offender submitting his rap sheet for his interview at a daycare facility. Awful. Simply awful.

Hilarious, but a little too harsh.

If that was a first attempt, with no formal training - hell, even with some - it's pretty decent technically.

I mean, I've never watched the whole thing because the acting is shoddy and I don't care for fan films -so it totally failed in that respect - but it's a lot better than a lot of people can do.

[bscheur]

I always enjoy watching "Grayson" The creator seems down to earth and willing to learn about the trade. He recently just got the financing to do his first legit movie. I am curious to see how it turns out.

"Grayson" was a bit campy, sort of halfway between the 60s show and Batman 89. He tried to show a lot of violence, but with some campy dialogue. Take it for what it is, and enjoy his sincere effort.

I have geeked out over this movie at my LCS several times. Its just good fun.

[Captain Jim]

I actually liked it.

[ScottyQuick]

It's as crappy now as it was when I saw it years ago. He should hide it, as it's a proof positive why he shouldn't be have a career making films . It's like a sex offender submitting his rap sheet for his interview at a daycare facility. Awful. Simply awful.

Dude. Take a step back from your keyboard. Instead of being a gigantic asshole and acting like the people Morrison talks about, why not say what you didn't like about it instead of comparing it to child molestation?

[HaroldAllnut]

I saw this quite a while back, and enjoyed it quite a bit. Still do.

It's as crappy now as it was when I saw it years ago. He should hide it, as it's a proof positive why he shouldn't be have a career making films . It's like a sex offender submitting his rap sheet for his interview at a daycare facility. Awful. Simply awful.Dude. Take a step back from your keyboard. Instead of being a gigantic asshole and acting like the people Morrison talks about, why not say what you didn't like about it instead of comparing it to child molestation?

Yeah. I agree with ScottyQuick, though I'd like to word my rebuttal a bit more delicately.

WorstThingUS, I'm sorry, but you're kind of acting out the stereotype people seem to believe in regarding comic book fans: that we're intensely and even cruelly critical, especially when posting on the internet. Take it down a notch, please.

[everydayoccasion]

It was interesting , I'm a big fan of heroes intersecting and crossing in and out of other hero's stories. So, it had that going for it. The only thing I couldn't get passed is how elaborate it is. I mean who does that, but still I enjoyed

[WorstThingUS]

Why would that be so?

Easy, tiger!

I never really liked it much myself, but you've got to admit that it deserves an A for effort.

Okay, maybe I'm a little harsh, but it's a good joke. And I love the irony that I'm overreacting when I'm obviously exaggerating for comic effect by people who act like I just told them their kid was ugly. Watch your stones in that glass house. At least I was funny.

And how isn't it bad? He swings for the fences and strikes out rather than just trying to get on base and succeed. Compare this to something like "Dead End" which didn't try to encompass everything but Bat-Mite (and had to the good sense to utilize the Dini/Ross work) and succeeded, while that director's second effort "World's Finest" failed when it did try expand. Less, is more kids. He tried show everything and wound up showing he could do barely anything. The attempts at gravitas here make it almost a satire. Slow motion and the howling chorus? The silly idea that people yelling at each instantly constitutes drama? The previously mentioned chalk outline of Batman's ears!?! My eyes rolled so far back into my head I think I saw my brain stem. He'd have been well-served to do the just the basic idea---Dick Grayson returns to the Robin role after Batman's death---and drop almost everything else. Use the money he had to make that look as good as possible rather than the overall shabby look of everything. I mean, Green Lantern and Wonder Woman? Seriously? Why?

But he did do the fight scenes decently, so he might get some second unit work.


WorstThingUS, I'm sorry, but you're kind of acting out the stereotype people seem to believe in regarding comic book fans: that we're intensely and even cruelly critical, especially when posting on the internet. Take it down a notch, please.

Considering I once got a job reviewing films at a magazine for being vicious, I'm going to have disagree that this is some sort of comic book or even internet province. We need to reject the label that we're somehow more critical than say, music fans.

And let me add that I'm pretty sure we're looking at this from two different points of view. I'm judging it like he's offering it: an attempt to get money and/jobs and in that respect, it's miserable and he should really stop. He demonstrates no proficiency towards towards filmmaking (beyond shooting a decent fight scene) at all. If it's just something done for fun and nothing more? Well, it's still pretty bad, but you don't expect a fan film not to be so I can be more charitable (and wouldn't have wasted my joke on it).

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

I mean, Green Lantern and Wonder Woman? Seriously? Why?


Son of a bitch, now I have to watch the whole thing...

[WorstThingUS]

Son of a bitch, now I have to watch the whole thing...

I'm so sorry to have done that to you. Seriously.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

It's the slow motion done by people trying to move slowly, whilst exaggerating for drama that really makes it for me.

[pgonzo98]

its a good amateur film.

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Not bad at all.

[AJM]

And how isn't it bad? He swings for the fences and strikes out rather than just trying to get on base and succeed. Compare this to something like "Dead End" which didn't try to encompass everything but Bat-Mite (and had to the good sense to utilize the Dini/Ross work) and succeeded, while that director's second effort "World's Finest" failed when it did try expand. Less, is more kids. He tried show everything and wound up showing he could do barely anything. The attempts at gravitas here make it almost a satire. Slow motion and the howling chorus? The silly idea that people yelling at each instantly constitutes drama? The previously mentioned chalk outline of Batman's ears!?! My eyes rolled so far back into my head I think I saw my brain stem. He'd have been well-served to do the just the basic idea---Dick Grayson returns to the Robin role after Batman's death---and drop almost everything else. Use the money he had to make that look as good as possible rather than the overall shabby look of everything.

Judging a fan-film with the same criteria you would a professional movie is just plain silly. And i'm sure we've all endured far worse Hollywood blockbusters than an amateur, low-budget faux trailer that was made from love, intended for fun and shared for free on the internet.

I mean, Green Lantern and Wonder Woman? Seriously? Why?

Why not? It's his film, it's up to him who he puts in it.

Really, it's not worth a fraction of your ire, and i wouldn't be surprised to find that you're a wee bit jealous of his passion and creativity. Point is, if you don't like it, you're free to try and make a better one yourself. As i said, i don't love the trailer myself, but i respect the fact he spent time and money on something he loved so he could entertain fellow Batman fans for a few minutes free of charge.

[T Hedge Coke]

I admit, I don't like a lot of that, but there is potential and some of the camera work was cool. I just wish I could see that potential come out in a film and not a fan film. What's the point, other than riding on the extra-bit-of-cool that Dick Grayson can buy you? Better editing, better script, and maybe everything honoring, even homaging manboy Robin if they want to, but a direct lift that becomes lifeless and choppy so quick into its run?

And, really, Babs is the settle-down mother who must take their child and leave because Dick's in super revenge funk mode? That's in character for who, now, in the what when?

[justus_cade]

So is this just a trailer? I liked what I saw, and wondering when/if the full length version will be out. It's peaked my curiosity, I can enjoy it for what it is.

[WorstThingUS]

Judging a fan-film with the same criteria you would a professional movie is just plain silly. And i'm sure we've all endured far worse Hollywood blockbusters than an amateur, low-budget faux trailer that was made from love, intended for fun and shared for free on the internet.

As I said, if it were only that I'd be more charitable, but he's trying to use this to get a deal and in that respect it's simply awful. It shows if you give him time and money (he obviously put a significant deal of both into this) he'll still come up empty.

Point is, if you don't like it, you're free to try and make a better one yourself.

Point is, my grip on reality prevents me from displaying my lack of talent as openly as our friend here. A realization of his limitations vs his goals would have helped him immeasurably...or maybe brutally honest friend. "Dude, slow motion? Really?"

[AJM]

As I said, if it were only that I'd be more charitable, but he's trying to use this to get a deal and in that respect it's simply awful. It shows if you give him time and money (he obviously put a significant deal of both into this) he'll still come up empty.

And what makes you such an authority? Are you a producer? Do you sit on an arts council film board? Are you a judge on the panel at, say, Sundance or Cannes? He didn't get any deal from it anyway - isn't that enough to satisfy you?

Point is, my grip on reality prevents me from displaying my lack of talent as openly as our friend here. A realization of his limitations vs his goals would have helped him immeasurably...or maybe brutally honest friend. "Dude, slow motion? Really?"

You're not helping your case by personally insulting someone you've never met and who has no public profile other than their work.

If you don't like it, don't watch it - it hasn't cost you anything but time so it doesn't deserve such vitriol. And when all's said and done, it's better to have tried and (arguably) failed than never to have tried at all.

And for what it's worth, i enjoyed the Grayson trailer far more than Batman Forever and Batman & Robin combined, and i had to pay to watch those monstrosities.

Seriously, grow up.

[WorstThingUS]

And what makes you such an authority? Are you a producer? Do you sit on an arts council film board? Are you a judge on the panel at, say, Sundance or Cannes? He didn't get any deal from it anyway - isn't that enough to satisfy you?

I'm god (or Scorsese, I haven't decided which) and I won't be satisfied until he's homeless.


You're not helping your case by personally insulting someone you've never met and who has no public profile other than their work.

And I'm judging only his work. Admittedly harsh, but I've made no personal comments about the man, so now you're just making things up.


If you don't like it, don't watch it - it hasn't cost you anything but time so it doesn't deserve such vitriol. And when all's said and done, it's better to have tried and (arguably) failed than never to have tried at all.

But I did watch and I'll never get that time back! He owes and he'll pay...in blood!


And for what it's worth, i enjoyed the Grayson trailer far more than Batman Forever and Batman & Robin combined, and i had to pay to watch those monstrosities.

That's kind of my point. That's what you get when untalented people make movies. Don't you wish someone brutally honest had spoken to Schumacher?

Seriously, grow up.

Show me how. Your overreaction to my comments aren't doing it. I don't take them as seriously as you obviously are.

[Abeja]

I asked this in my OP. Any chance of an animated Robin or Teen Titans since DC is doing all this animated stuff?? Id love to see young Dick Grayson/Wally West and Co especially if it were based off Year One. Cause that would seem more likely to happen than a live-action. Also, i started to read his screenplay for Robin, it wasnt too bad. I dont like how he made Barry Allen real cocky, when I think that should be more of Hal Jordan.

[WorstThingUS]

I asked this in my OP. Any chance of an animated Robin or Teen Titans since DC is doing all this animated stuff?? Id love to see young Dick Grayson/Wally West and Co especially if it were based off Year One. Cause that would seem more likely to happen than a live-action. Also, i started to read his screenplay for Robin, it wasnt too bad. I dont like how he made Barry Allen real cocky, when I think that should be more of Hal Jordan.

They were going to do an animated Teen Titans based on "The Judas Contract" storyline, but it got shelved. The next animated feature is Green Lantern.

[Hypestyle]

kudos.. robin should be prominent in the teen titans film.. hopefully they won't totally divorce him from the Bat-mythos...

[AJM]

And I'm judging only his work. Admittedly harsh, but I've made no personal comments about the man, so now you're just making things up.

You said he had no grip on reality - how is that not a personal insult?



But I did watch and I'll never get that time back! He owes and he'll pay...in blood!

That's kind of my point. That's what you get when untalented people make movies. Don't you wish someone brutally honest had spoken to Schumacher?

Show me how. Your overreaction to my comments aren't doing it. I don't take them as seriously as you obviously are.

What's happening here? Are trying to lighten the mood by inferring that your comments were an attempt at humour? If so, i didn't find them funny. Or are you just the type of self-appointed internet critic that likes to wind people up? You do understand irony, don't you? "Your overreaction to my comments." Ha ha.

Someone made a Batman film and i've seen it for free and i don't like it. That's all we really need to know, but you chose to equate it with the crime of a sex offender, and i find that offensive. Not only that, you were recently on another thread discussing the misogyny of a gratuitous nude scene in Oracle: The Cure. So how do you reconcile your pseudo-feminism with jokes about rapists?

[Lew Moxon]

This trailer seems to serve as a kind of sequel to Adam West's show. As such, I truly believe the more campy elements to be entirely intentional. Maybe it's supposed to be bad-that's the entire point.

I think the acting in general was pretty bad. Gordon was okay, in a kind of campy way

Bad acting in general. Why the hell is Selina Kyle so young? If Dick is in his late twenties early thirties-wouldn't she be in her mid-late forties? She looked far to young. She looked like a contempary of Grayson's rather than being a generation older.

I think visually, it was decent, but hardly the best Bat-fan film I've seen. Personally I tend to prefer Patient J. Though the case can be made for Dead End.

[T Hedge Coke]

Why the hell is Selina Kyle so young? If Dick is in his late twenties early thirties-wouldn't she be in her mid-late forties?

In the future, Catwoman will age very very well. On the other hand, Clark, Babs, and Gordon will all be assholes. Besides, Catwoman has to be young and fit to justify the ass-shot introduction, and clearly, that ass-shot is more important than whatever else she might be doing in the film.

[AJM]

In the future, Catwoman will age very very well. On the other hand, Clark, Babs, and Gordon will all be assholes. Besides, Catwoman has to be young and fit to justify the ass-shot introduction, and clearly, that ass-shot is more important than whatever else she might be doing in the film.

Must everything become a feminist issue? It's a FAN-FILM, it's hardly going to poison young men's minds and augment the already prevalent objectification of women if hardly anyone sees it. There were plenty of "ass-shots" in Batman Returns and the old TV series too - should we go back and remove them?

[AJM]

I think visually, it was decent, but hardly the best Bat-fan film I've seen. Personally I tend to prefer Patient J. Though the case can be made for Dead End.

I just went to watch Patient J, never seen it before. Can't say i was impressed. It just reminds me what a difficult role the Joker is to play and reminded me how amazing Heath Ledger was.

[T Hedge Coke]

Must everything become a feminist issue? It's a FAN-FILM, it's hardly going to poison young men's minds and augment the already prevalent objectification of women if hardly anyone sees it. There were plenty of "ass-shots" in Batman Returns and the old TV series too - should we go back and remove them?

Believe me, if Gordon had been younger than plausible and intro'd with an ass-shot, I would have mentioned that, too. I'm not opposed to ass-shots. I'm just saying, that's probably a big part of why they cast younger there.

[WorstThingUS]

You said he had no grip on reality - how is that not a personal insult?

It was nonetheless in regards to how he views his work. I wasn't talking about his mom.


What's happening here? Are trying to lighten the mood by inferring that your comments were an attempt at humour? If so, i didn't find them funny. Or are you just the type of self-appointed internet critic that likes to wind people up? You do understand irony, don't you? "Your overreaction to my comments." Ha ha.

Considering the very first comment I made that started this was obviously a joke, yeah, it's always been silly to me how you've reacted and I've been laughing at you this entire time.

Someone made a Batman film and i've seen it for free and i don't like it. That's all we really need to know, but you chose to equate it with the crime of a sex offender, and i find that offensive.

Then that's your real issue then isn't it? Well, that's your problem. Others found it harsh but funny, which is what it was meant to be. And what's worse is you didn't understand it. I didn't equate the making of the film with a sex crime, I equated the thinking it would help with the thinking revealing a history as a sex offender would help one get a job with children. It's about massive self-delusion. Reading comprehension is a good thing.

Not only that, you were recently on another thread discussing the misogyny of a gratuitous nude scene in Oracle: The Cure. So how do you reconcile your pseudo-feminism with jokes about rapists?

My feminism isn't pseudo and a joke used to make point doesn't invalidate it. I'm basing this on the feminist women I've told it to who laughed. But they understood I was making a point about delusions of grandeur, which you obviously didn't (they also know sex crime doesn't automatically mean rapist; a flasher is a sex offender). Much like the people on that thread whose real issues was of a handicapped woman presented as a sexual object, not the overall sexism of it, your issue isn't my dislike of this film, but the fact I used sex crimes as a punchline. And I don't care.

[AJM]

your issue isn't my dislike of this film, but the fact I used sex crimes as a punchline. And I don't care.

Anyone who can use "sex crimes as a punchline" isn't a feminist, and that goes for your female friends too.

[WorstThingUS]

Must everything become a feminist issue? It's a FAN-FILM, it's hardly going to poison young men's minds and augment the already prevalent objectification of women if hardly anyone sees it. There were plenty of "ass-shots" in Batman Returns and the old TV series too - should we go back and remove them?

The ass-shots were in Schumacher's films, not Burton's and the Batman series was 40 years ago, so god forbid we advance. Not to mention it was meant to be a joke, showing that you just don't get them anywhere.

[WorstThingUS]

Anyone who can use "sex crimes as a punchline" isn't a feminist, and that goes for your female friends too.

Oh, now are you the feminist god who dictates these things? If you are, then I can be the film god who judges this a waste of time.

[AJM]

Oh, now are you the feminist god who dictates these things? If you are, then I can be the film god who judges this waste of time.

No, i'm not a feminist god, but i do know that using rape to illustrate a point in a comical manner jars with feminist beliefs.

Anyway, i thought you didn't care?

[WorstThingUS]

No, i'm not a feminist god, but i do know that using rape to illustrate a point in a comical manner jars with feminist beliefs.

Anyway, i thought you didn't care?

Given your ire that someone took exception to Catwoman's ass-shot and the depiction of Barbara Gordon, I'd say your comprehension of feminist beliefs could fit on the head of a pin.

[AJM]

Given your ire that someone took exception to Catwoman's ass-shot and the depiction of Barbara Gordon, I'd say your comprehension of feminist beliefs could fit on the head of a pin.

1. Catwoman's "ass-shot." Sexuality is integral to Catwoman as a character and, as a cat burglar, her body must be fit and lithe. So i personally don't find it offensive when she's portrayed sexually. The fact that she was introduced arse-first is questionable but considering she is a character who is known for subverting her sexuality - and to successfully subvert it she must first give the illusion of objectification - and also that this scene appeared in a seldom-seen fan-made trailer, this hardly qualifies as a misogynist crime. It's no more offensive than the average perfume advert. (Besides, didn't you say a minute ago that the whole thing was intended as a joke that i didn't get?)

2. Barbara's Shower Scene. I think this scene was purposefully executed in a cliched and objectified manner to juxtapose what many readers (wrongly) consider to be an acceptable depiction of sexuality with a woman of disability, i.e. a woman who is not the stereotypical physical sexual object. The panel of her removing her pants clearly shows the wheels of her wheelchair, and i think the artist's intentions were to challenge what we consider to be sexually acceptable. It may not have been entirely successful, but i don't believe there was any genuine, sexist malice behind this scene at all. If anything, i think depicting a disabled woman in the same manner you would expect to see in softcore porn is actually quite a positive thing. (And incidentally, pornography doesn't have to be misogynist - although it usually is. There are plenty of women who consider themselves feminists who also support non-misogynist porn. THIS (http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/mcelroy_17_4.html) explains it far better than i can.)

3. None of the above can be considered anywhere near as offensive as using rape for an amusing allegory.

Feel free to try and fit that on the head of a pin.

[STC]

The ass shot is the best part of the movie. Why complain for?

[WorstThingUS]

1. Catwoman's "ass-shot." Sexuality is integral to Catwoman as a character and, as a cat burglar, her body must be fit and lithe. So i personally don't find it offensive when she's portrayed sexually. The fact that she was introduced arse-first is questionable but considering she is a character who is known for subverting her sexuality - and to successfully subvert it she must first give the illusion of objectification - and also that this scene appeared in a seldom-seen fan-made trailer, this hardly qualifies as a misogynist crime. It's no more offensive than the average perfume advert. (Besides, didn't you say a minute ago that the whole thing was intended as a joke that i didn't get?)

2. Barbara's Shower Scene. I think this scene was purposefully executed in a cliched and objectified manner to juxtapose what many readers (wrongly) consider to be an acceptable depiction of sexuality with a woman of disability, i.e. a woman who is not the stereotypical physical sexual object. The panel of her removing her pants clearly shows the wheels of her wheelchair, and i think the artist's intentions were to challenge what we consider to be sexually acceptable. It may not have been entirely successful, but i don't believe there was any genuine, sexist malice behind this scene at all. If anything, i think depicting a disabled woman in the same manner you would expect to see in softcore porn is actually quite a positive thing. (And incidentally, pornography doesn't have to be misogynist - although it usually is. There are plenty of women who consider themselves feminists who also support non-misogynist porn. THIS (http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/mcelroy_17_4.html) explains it far better than i can.)

3. None of the above can be considered anywhere near as offensive as using rape for an amusing allegory.

Feel free to try and fit that on the head of a pin.

1. The Catwoman ass-shot didn't bother me nor did the depiction of Batgirl because it all comes under the head of untalented filmmaking. The problem is you don't think anyone has the right to be bothered. You wanted someone's sensibilities turned off so you could have a good time. Well, how about turn yours off regarding my joke? Not so easy is it?

2. My problem wasn't the nudity, but that is was explicit without being characteristic like the nudity of Nightwing, i.e., the lack of scarring. Her body was just meant to appeal to the primarily male audience, not tell the story of her life the way his did.

3. You'd need a sense of humor as well as reading comprehension skills to pass judgment.

What do you know? It all fits quite easily with room for more!

[AJM]

You wanted someone's sensibilities turned off so you could have a good time. Well, how about turn yours off regarding my joke? Not so easy is it?

Please don't bring "reading comprehension" up, it's pathetic. Not that it's any of your business, but i happen to be a professional writer and my reading comprehension is just fine, according to my bank account at least. You made a distasteful, peurile joke and now you're defending it by suggesting that i'm stupid. Well done.

Sorry i didn't find it funny, there must be something wrong me. The next time uses the example of a rapist attempting to work in a nursery as a hilarious allegory for the plight of an amateur film-maker, i'll be sure and laugh as loud as i can so i don't feel too alienated.

[Abeja]

Barbara Gordon was drawn sexually before the scene with clothes on, the wheelchair doesnt add to or take away that. Male superheros can be argued to be just as much of a sexual object for woman, as woman superheros are for men.

Rape isnt funny, but to automatically associate it with a woman being raped sexually, is somewhat hypocritical. It sexist towards men.

[T Hedge Coke]

Barbara Gordon was drawn sexually before the scene with clothes on, the wheelchair doesnt add to or take away that. Male superheros can be argued to be just as much of a sexual object for woman, as woman superheros are for men.

You do know there's a difference between sexy and sexist, right? Other than a few people who were clearly upset that a woman in a wheelchair was being sexualised (gasp, shudder, horror), the issue was never one of her being sexy but of her being objectified. Male characters are often, in superhero comics, as sexy as their female counterparts, but rarely are they as objectified, rather than humanized.

I find the use of Barbara in this film arguably more sexist (and inane, and out of character) than its use of Catwoman, and she's not the more sexed up here. But, again, with the Catwoman thing, seriously, would they have done it with Superman or Jim Gordon? Younger than sensible and showcasing a nice ass as way of introducing us to the character? If the objectification was equal, then yes.

[Abeja]

You do know there's a difference between sexy and sexist, right? Other than a few people who were clearly upset that a woman in a wheelchair was being sexualised (gasp, shudder, horror), the issue was never one of her being sexy but of her being objectified. Male characters are often, in superhero comics, as sexy as their female counterparts, but rarely are they as objectified, rather than humanized.

I find the use of Barbara in this film arguably more sexist (and inane, and out of character) than its use of Catwoman, and she's not the more sexed up here. But, again, with the Catwoman thing, seriously, would they have done it with Superman or Jim Gordon? Younger than sensible and showcasing a nice ass as way of introducing us to the character? If the objectification was equal, then yes.

I guess i should have kept my mouth shut. I didnt see the big deal, but then again that might be why im single. If the shower scene or the issue dehumanized her then im missing something cause it didnt change my view of Barbara. I guess its cause I have a thing for redheads and smarts.

She was out of character in the short-film. I didnt like that.

[WorstThingUS]

Please don't bring "reading comprehension" up, it's pathetic. Not that it's any of your business, but i happen to be a professional writer and my reading comprehension is just fine, according to my bank account at least.

Because money = skill. I keep forgetting that.

Sorry i didn't find it funny, there must be something wrong me. The next time uses the example of a rapist attempting to work in a nursery as a hilarious allegory for the plight of an amateur film-maker, i'll be sure and laugh as loud as i can so i don't feel too alienated.

Good, so no one will realize you didn't understand the comparison was between delusional states of mind and not some defacto endorsement of child molestation. Apparently, there's room enough on that pinhead for your comprehension skills and your sense of humor too.

[AJM]

Because money = skill. I keep forgetting that.

No, money does not equal skill - i was illustrating that at least someone trusts my "reading comprehension" enough to pay me for it. Irony again?

Good, so no one will realize you didn't understand the comparison was between delusional states of mind and not some defacto endorsement of child molestation. Apparently, there's room enough on that pinhead for your comprehension skills and your sense of humor too.

I'm perfectly aware your joke was a comparison about delusional states of mind, but the particular delusional state of mind you chose to illustrate your point was that of a peadophile who wants to work with children. Why? What makes you think that this particular example is especially entertaining or descriptive? Is it because you think it's extreme and shocking, and by extension witty and effective? It's not, it's just childish, and it's still on the first page of this thread for everyone to read. Why couldn't you have used a different allegory? For instance, you could have said: "an armed robber applying for a job at a bank." This illustrates exactly the same point. It's not quite as attention-grabbing but it does have the advantage of being less offensive because it does not use child rape as its inspiration.

And normally such a comment wouldn't cause such ire in me, but for someone who was so vocal about their distaste of the Oracle shower scene - which you derided as "T&A" and "objectification and exploitation" (you can find that comment HERE (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=262667&page=9)), although you contradictively claimed earlier in this thread that it didn't bother you at all - i find it inexplicable and deeply hypocritical that you could then use sexual abuse as a basis for an illustrative point. That's not clever.

And incidentally, at no point did i suggest that you endorsed child molestation, "defacto" or otherwise. I simply expressed a genuine distaste of your puerile idea of humour, so perhaps you should brush up on your own comprehension skills.

I'd like to make it clear that i will respond to your insults ("there's room enough on that pinhead for your comprehension skills and your sense of humor too") and your infantile attempts to shock and offend no longer. This is my last post on the matter, i really do have better things to do.

Anyway, as i said before - i thought you said you didn't care?

[Captain Jim]

ScottyQuick, AJM, WorstThingUS, feel free to disagree, but there's no need for insults.

[joe27]

The fact there's a new character every two seconds makes this seem like a video game plot rather than the makings of a decent film.

And that part where Barbara asks if he's preparing for a war and he gives that stupid look annoys me to no end. Although I bet it would play well for anybody who pissed themselves over Batman's "I'll get drive-thru" crack from Batman Forever.

[CBikle]

You have to give the guy credit for it being as good as it was, considering it was done without the budget or resources an actual film like this would have.

In a way, Grayson reminds me of the original Roger Corman Fantastic 4 film, and as bad as it was, it had a lot of heart to it and you could tell that everyone was trying their best to make it work and that's what I get from Grayson.

Since I brought up the F4 film, the Tim Story Fantastic 4 films were about as bad and Story really doesn't have an excuse there considering those movies were backed by a major studio. Those movies have a real aura of half-assedness to them that the Corman F4 didn't have.

[WorstThingUS]

I'm perfectly aware your joke was a comparison about delusional states of mind, but the particular delusional state of mind you chose to illustrate your point was that of a peadophile who wants to work with children. Why? What makes you think that this particular example is especially entertaining or descriptive? Is it because you think it's extreme and shocking, and by extension witty and effective? It's not, it's just childish, and it's still on the first page of this thread for everyone to read. Why couldn't you have used a different allegory? For instance, you could have said: "an armed robber applying for a job at a bank." This illustrates exactly the same point. It's not quite as attention-grabbing but it does have the advantage of being less offensive because it does not use child rape as its inspiration.

I'd reply, but I'm too busy writing a letter to Janene Garafalo about what a feminist she's not because she made a joke comparing suing for lung cancer when you're a smoker to suing the city because you went into the NYC subway at night naked and got raped. It's not that I don't get it, she's just wrong. Oh, I've got to write Chris Rock too, because he made a joke about being molested by one's uncle and his Michael Jackson jokes. Then there's Jeremy Piven, the producers of "entourage" and HBO in general for his joke of having an erection "like R. Kelly at recess." It's not that I don't get it and am humorless. Child rape simply is not funny and jokes will not be tolerated. Clearly these people are unfunny and could never make a living doing comedy. Oh, wait...



Since I brought up the F4 film, the Tim Story Fantastic 4 films were about as bad and Story really doesn't have an excuse there considering those movies were backed by a major studio. Those movies have a real aura of half-assedness to them that the Corman F4 didn't have.

That's kind of my point. You're harsher on the Tim Story versions because they obviously had more time and more money and still came up empty, where as you forgive something that was obviously done quick and cheap. Grayson shows a lot of time and money for a fan film, so I judge it much more harshly as well. Also, you'd judge fan art done for fun differently than something someone said they were submitting to DC in hopes of getting work. You don't have to be an editor to know 99% of all fan art simply won't cut the mustard.

[ONSCREEN CHEMISTRY]

It was interesting , I'm a big fan of heroes intersecting and crossing in and out of other hero's stories. So, it had that going for it. The only thing I couldn't get passed is how elaborate it is. I mean who does that, but still I enjoyed

I agree. Definitely got a little overkill when Green Lantern showed up. But then the guy probably figured he might not get a chance to do separate fan films for all those characters, so why not include as many as he could.

[HopeLantern]

Thought this was the coolest thing I've seen in sometime.

I come from the school of fans that think "too many cooks ruin the kitchen" (please see Spider Man 3 for clarification). That is to say, I think the movie needs less appearances from the JLA. No green Lantern, no Wonder Woman. Superman can be argued so that's fine, but mostly, it should be a purely Gotham story. The movie is Super campy... but enjoyable non the less. And it is a great concept, I think. Although a grown man running around in the Robin outfit is a little... out there. I probably would have liked them to do a new Dynamic Duo, maybe Nightwing and he's looking for a new Robin (Tim) to help clean up the streets, ha ha. But Dick married to Babs, with a child is awesome. Oh well, I never saw this movie, but will be looking for it, now, that's for sure. Thanks for posting this ONSCREEN CHEM...

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

And what makes you such an authority? Are you a producer? Do you sit on an arts council film board? Are you a judge on the panel at, say, Sundance or Cannes? He didn't get any deal from it anyway - isn't that enough to satisfy you?

He can't have an opinion/knowledge of what makes a 'good' film/trailer without someway being involved in the 'industry'?

I'm a promo-producer for a movie channel - I make trailers for the films we are showing, so I take it my opinion - that this is all-right for a fan having a bit of fun, but far from 'good', and really should have been cut down to at least half the size - is the set in-stone opinion that all must bow to?

[amidcars]

It's the slow motion done by people trying to move slowly, whilst exaggerating for drama that really makes it for me.