About Sups Power

[Alejandro]

How much can he really lift? (the actual version) and how fast he can be?

I heard he is faster than Flash, but flash gets to be called the fastes man alive so no idea o.o

[The Batman]

Well, that really depends on which Superman you're talking about and when as Superman's strength and speed has varied greatly throughout his seventy years. I think it was Kurt Busiek (though it might just has easily been Mark Waid or Elliot S! Maggin) who said, when discussing Superman's strength, that he's always as strong as the story needs him to be.

[Alejandro]

I have noticed that....

But did he beat Flash in a race? And I am talking about the comic superman of current continuity

[The Batman]

Oh, well this (http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/races.html) might have the info you're looking for.

[Alejandro]

THanks! that did help me a lot. So about the strength there are not much limits are they?

[Oceanus]

The silver age Superman could move planets.
The post-Crisis superman seems able to lift a building, but with some strain. A skyscraper weighs 100,000-1,000,000 tonnes, and they seem pretty heavy to him, so that's probably around his limit.

[Lord of Denial]

The silver age Superman could move planets.
The post-Crisis superman seems able to lift a building, but with some strain. A skyscraper weighs 100,000-1,000,000 tonnes, and they seem pretty heavy to him, so that's probably around his limit.

He is way beyond that.

He helps move planets now.

[Alejandro]

PLease post some example lord of denial pretty please :smile:

Also his reflexes. I he could stop a bullet after it was shot and before it hit an inocent. That great reflex so if that did happen postr crisis please tell me.

Thanks in advance for all the help and please put examples (better if you have images or comic numbers)

[Lord of Denial]

PLease post some example lord of denial pretty please :smile:

Also his reflexes. I he could stop a bullet after it was shot and before it hit an inocent. That great reflex so if that did happen postr crisis please tell me.

Thanks in advance for all the help and please put examples (better if you have images or comic numbers)


Some examples of his strength

Along with Wonder Woman held up The Spectre who is said to have the weight of infinity.

Along with Captain Marvel held up a book that held infinite number of pages.

Some debate on whether he and GL moved the Moon together or GL and Superman took turns moving the moon.

With MM and WW moved The Earth.

Reflexes and Speed.

Flew to the Andromeda galaxy on his own power in a few days ( Millions of time Light speed)

Heard a shot from half way around the world and got there in time to catch the bullet before it struck lois. ( The gunman was only a few feet away)

One of the few people capable of talking to Flash in superspeed mode other then other speedforce users.

[Alejandro]

Wow, all that post crisis?

[3D Master]

Heard a shot from half way around the world and got there in time to catch the bullet before it struck lois. ( The gunman was only a few feet away)

Which is of course total bullshit. Sound moves at only 340 m/s; by the time the sound would reach his ears (ignoring the fact that sound is not infinite; aka it loses energy and soon will completely disappear), Lois should have had a bullet in her for HOURS, and the gunman has had time to spend the loot on tipping the local strippers and leisurely get a few lapdances.

[Alejandro]

Which is of course total bullshit. Sound moves at only 340 m/s; by the time the sound would reach his ears (ignoring the fact that sound is not infinite; aka it loses energy and soon will completely disappear), Lois should have had a bullet in her for HOURS, and the gunman has had time to spend the loot on tipping the local strippers and leisurely get a few lapdances.

Its not that astonishing when you have heard about super ventriloqy(or however it is written)....

[3D Master]

Its not that astonishing when you have heard about super ventriloqy(or however it is written)....

Well, ventriloquy is still physically possible, so whatever super ventriloquy is has the potential not be physically impossible, let alone utterly ridiculous.

However, sound that just decides to speed up to thousands of times it sspeed to reach Supes in time he can get to a bullet - and for some reason decides in its mad physics breaking dash to ignore all other ears between the event that started the sound and supes' ears - is just plain ridiculous.

Besides which, super ventriloquy was the ultra kiddie kiddie ridiculous silver age. There was a reason DC completely DESTROYED all universes they had except one and started from scratch in mid 80s; to actually get something plausible.

And now the idiots are bringing it back, without a bother to really think things through. Physics breaking, intelligent sound that goes; "Ooh! Lois Lane, it's supes' wife! Supes must know before the bullet hits her! Let's activate my super secret speed force powers to get to supes ears super fast!" is just ridiculous.

Just like physics breaking, intelligent planets that go: "Ooh! Supes is here! I like Supes! Hmm, whats Supes' doing!? Better read his mind! Dang; he wants to move me instead of dig for a super villains secret hide out bunker! Silly Supes, he should reall know there's no difference! Oh, well! Active my super structural integrity field, allowing the dirt on my mantal to withstand all that pressure and allow Supes to move me instead of going through me! And while I'm add it; moving me would cause massive tectonic upheavals due to change in gravity fields and inertia, so lets activate my artificial gravity generator and inertial nullifiers to save the billions of peoples lives Supes would be snuffing out with his bonehead maneuver! Oh, well, life of a planet eh!?"

Similarly ridiculous, and should have been kept in the oblivion of bad comics hell, but alas.

[Oceanus]

Superman didn't hear the sound, but disturbances in the electomagnetic spectrum, which travel at the speed of light.

He was able to hear it for the same reason you can pick out a voice in a crowd. It's a super cocktail party effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocktail_party_effect)

Superman has the ability to use his superfingers as supershockabsorption, so that he doesn't penetrate the surface of a planet when moving it.

Simple, really.

[3D Master]

Superman didn't hear the sound, but disturbances in the electomagnetic spectrum, which travel at the speed of light.

He was able to hear it for the same reason you can pick out a voice in a crowd. It's a super cocktail party effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocktail_party_effect)

Ah, yes. I should have known! I'm always wondering; why do we have satellites, and tight beam transmitters to hit that satellite and get electro-magnetic signals to the other side of the planet. They always conveniently bend themselves around the curvature of the planet, and if that doesn't work, easily pass through the planet. I have Brazilian tv shows on my tv all the time, interfering with the local programming. It's actually quite annoying...

Wait a minute... no, I don't.

Superman has the ability to use his superfingers as supershockabsorption, so that he doesn't penetrate the surface of a planet when moving it.

Simple, really.

It has nothing to do with shock absorption, it's pressure. Put enough force to move a planet on the size of Supes' hands and you get pressure that exceeds the surface tension and the surface gets moved or is crushed. If supes' fingers absorbed all the force to the point the surface isn't penetrated, the force needed to move the planet is no longer there either, and the planet doesn't move.

[Oceanus]

You realize I wasn't serious? :tongue:

[Lord of Denial]

Its not that astonishing when you have heard about super ventriloqy(or however it is written)....

Applying real world physics to superhero comics or comics in general is a bad and useless practice.

The impossible happens on every page and in every issue, we just chalk it up to Comic Book physics.

[Jorriss]

Which is of course total bullshit. Sound moves at only 340 m/s; by the time the sound would reach his ears (ignoring the fact that sound is not infinite; aka it loses energy and soon will completely disappear), Lois should have had a bullet in her for HOURS, and the gunman has had time to spend the loot on tipping the local strippers and leisurely get a few lapdances.
Not to be a prick, but why point that out? It's no more outlandish than anything in the comics. You think the idea of an alien storing solar radiation, enough to the point where he can move planets, is in any way more realistic? These comics don't actually occur and therefore aren't subject to our laws of physics, whack right? I can't imagine what you think of green lanterns ring O_O

[Walter West]

PLease post some example lord of denial pretty please :smile:

Also his reflexes. I he could stop a bullet after it was shot and before it hit an inocent. That great reflex so if that did happen postr crisis please tell me.

Thanks in advance for all the help and please put examples (better if you have images or comic numbers)

During "The Final Night", Superman---even when weakened---caught a handful of bullets that Vandal Savage fired at Batman when Batman tried to stop him from stealing the Mona Lisa.

[Alejandro]

During "The Final Night", Superman---even when weakened---caught a handful of bullets that Vandal Savage fired at Batman when Batman tried to stop him from stealing the Mona Lisa.

Wicked o.O thanks a lot for your aportation :D

[3D Master]

Not to be a prick, but why point that out? It's no more outlandish than anything in the comics. You think the idea of an alien storing solar radiation, enough to the point where he can move planets, is in any way more realistic? These comics don't actually occur and therefore aren't subject to our laws of physics, whack right? I can't imagine what you think of green lanterns ring O_O

I have indeed commented on the storing solar radiation bit before; but again, not so much on storing the radiation and how much can be stored, but the consequences for Earth. For Superman to store so much solar radiation constantly, to allow such incredible feats of speed and strength, and given how much or how little solar radiation hits the planet, Superman would need to suck every single last bit of photonic energy down into him, and leave the planet around him a frozen waste land.

However, if the solar radiation weren't stored, but somehow gives Superman access to Zero Point Energy, it would indeed be possible, if highly improbable. There is after all an infinite amount of energy inside of every insignificantly small part of space-time - including enough to move a planet - if he weren't pushing on it with his hands - or to obliterate one for that matter.

There is a massive difference between improbable, but not impossible things, things that are impossible - and then things that are utterly ridiculous. Ridiculous is getting to a realm that not only defies known laws of physics but even defies laws of logic, or just so outlandishly stupid you quickly forget about it - like silver age science, I vaguely remember Lex putting together a laser or some raygun in a cell with a few metal rods he could find inside the prison.

Moving a planet with your hands yet not going through the planet, and sound moving thousands of times faster than it really travels when one of Supes' friends is in danger so he can get their in time, falls squarely in the category of utterly ridiculous.

[Jorriss]

I have indeed commented on the storing solar radiation bit before; but again, not so much on storing the radiation and how much can be stored, but the consequences for Earth. For Superman to store so much solar radiation constantly, to allow such incredible feats of speed and strength, and given how much or how little solar radiation hits the planet, Superman would need to suck every single last bit of photonic energy down into him, and leave the planet around him a frozen waste land.
You have the numbers to back he'd need to suck every bit of energy to do his feats? Of course, we're discussing some math to back up something with a completely unknown mechanism of action,it's moot anyways.

That being said, my point is laws of physics don't exists in comics in the same way, if at all, there is no point in pointing out any error.

Let me phrase it differently, you are not pointing out an error because the laws of physics don't exist.


However, if the solar radiation weren't stored, but somehow gives Superman access to Zero Point Energy, it would indeed be possible, if highly improbable. There is after all an infinite amount of energy inside of every insignificantly small part of space-time - including enough to move a planet - if he weren't pushing on it with his hands - or to obliterate one for that matter.
Well, I've never taken Quantum mechanics and wikipedia is too incomplete to really understand just about anything but from what I understand of vacuum energy [Thanks to Dr. Wikipedia, Ph.D, and my brother who has taken the graduated quantum course at university] it can't be used to do work.

And it also appears it is not infinite in nature, only in math. But the math doesn't always correspond exactly to a physical system.


*I've never taken any physics, just chatted with my previously mentioned sibling.
**If you actually meant zero-point energy and not vacuum energy, that'd be relatively absurd, so I assume you mean vacuum energy.

There is a massive difference between improbable, but not impossible things, things that are impossible - and then things that are utterly ridiculous. Ridiculous is getting to a realm that not only defies known laws of physics but even defies laws of logic, or just so outlandishly stupid you quickly forget about it - like silver age science, I vaguely remember Lex putting together a laser or some raygun in a cell with a few metal rods he could find inside the prison.
Why are our laws of physics necessary in comics? I enjoy Batman because he takes a more realistic approach, but it doesn't make the JLA and superman one's bad.

Shit even if he had these powers he couldn't use them, you think there wouldn't be any side effects of moving at the speed he does? A jet gets within a mile of glass and it shatters and thats like mach 2. Think of what Superman does O_O


It must be depressing reading comics as you :frown:

[kaiserthegreat]

He's telepathic and telekinetic. That explains everything.

[Jorriss]

He's telepathic and telekinetic. That explains everything.
Settles it for me :biggrin:

[Lord of Denial]

I have indeed commented on the storing solar radiation bit before; but again, not so much on storing the radiation and how much can be stored, but the consequences for Earth. For Superman to store so much solar radiation constantly, to allow such incredible feats of speed and strength, and given how much or how little solar radiation hits the planet, Superman would need to suck every single last bit of photonic energy down into him, and leave the planet around him a frozen waste land.

However, if the solar radiation weren't stored, but somehow gives Superman access to Zero Point Energy, it would indeed be possible, if highly improbable. There is after all an infinite amount of energy inside of every insignificantly small part of space-time - including enough to move a planet - if he weren't pushing on it with his hands - or to obliterate one for that matter.

There is a massive difference between improbable, but not impossible things, things that are impossible - and then things that are utterly ridiculous. Ridiculous is getting to a realm that not only defies known laws of physics but even defies laws of logic, or just so outlandishly stupid you quickly forget about it - like silver age science, I vaguely remember Lex putting together a laser or some raygun in a cell with a few metal rods he could find inside the prison.

Moving a planet with your hands yet not going through the planet, and sound moving thousands of times faster than it really travels when one of Supes' friends is in danger so he can get their in time, falls squarely in the category of utterly ridiculous.



You make the little kid in me die, DIE I SAY DIE!

[3D Master]

You have the numbers to back he'd need to suck every bit of energy to do his feats? Of course, we're discussing some math to back up something with a completely unknown mechanism of action,it's moot anyways.

You don't really need math, just simple logical deduction. Getting to the speed of light, requires an infinite amount of energy. Superman can go BEYOND the speed of light. Superman, in order to do this, would require to suck the sun dry in its entirety and STILL not have the energy to achieve this feat. Hence, you want him to have a chance at getting anywhere close, he would at least require every last bit of solar energy that gets anywhere near him; aka reaches the same hemisphere he's on. If he takes all the energy, there's nothing left to heat the planet.

That being said, my point is laws of physics don't exists in comics in the same way, if at all, there is no point in pointing out any error.

Let me phrase it differently, you are not pointing out an error because the laws of physics don't exist.

They DO exist in comic, they MUST exist in comics. If there are no laws of physics, you could do anything you want to, no matter how outlandish. You want every person to fly; there they go. You want elephants to be pink; presto they're pink. But, you don't like pink elephants anymore; next weak they're grey, or green. You want an intelligent ant the size of humans that can cut off his own head, and screw it back on, there it is. And hey, let's have humans learn the same thing. But oh, no, next weak we don't like this anymore, so the ant goes and do his known to work trick - poof, he's dead.

The moment you have no more laws of physics and logic, all semblance of consistency goes out the window, and it's just empty nothingness.

It's also suspension of disbelief thing. One can imagine things that are beyond our present knowledge of physics; and indeed can imagine something that is allowed within our present knowledge of science; but something that completely contradicts what we actually know of physics; and worse, even contradicts laws of logic; we get ridiculous and the suspension becomes impossible.

Well, I've never taken Quantum mechanics and wikipedia is too incomplete to really understand just about anything but from what I understand of vacuum energy [Thanks to Dr. Wikipedia, Ph.D, and my brother who has taken the graduated quantum course at university] it can't be used to do work.

And it also appears it is not infinite in nature, only in math. But the math doesn't always correspond exactly to a physical system.

*I've never taken any physics, just chatted with my previously mentioned sibling.
**If you actually meant zero-point energy and not vacuum energy, that'd be relatively absurd, so I assume you mean vacuum energy.

No, I mean acual zero-point energy, and it is not absurd it is cold hard fact. In fact, this zero-point energy must exist; it's also called dark energy, and this is what FILLS the vaccuum energy. And the vaccum energy is only a tiny fraction of what's stored far deeper in dark energy or zero-point energy, or hyper-dimensional massless eather, or subspace. You see, the universe expands; space-time grows larger, there's more volume - but the amount of vacuum energy in that new volume, is every bit as big, than in all the old volume. This vaccum energy seems to just spontaneously come into existence; aka zero-point, dark, hyper-dimensional, or subspace energy.

And Quantum Mechanics is wrong, it can most definitely be used to work, because there inventors and machines out there that actually USE it to work. Of course, don't expect any mainstream to ever tell you anything about it. These machines would make you instantly indepenent from big business energy production; no mor electric bills, gas bills - either for cooking or your car. Not to mention that whole annoying thing of making the average scientist look like a complete buffoon and moron, as well as a bunch of religious pricks zealots who seal off everything that is not sanctioned.

For example; remember that little "cold fusion" fiasco in the 80s? What you probably don't know, is that the experiment was not only successfully repeated, but improved. To such an extent, that there were university who were producing so much energy that electricity audibly crackled, and light from it flashed across the walls lightning the lab - shown on public news broadcasts by the way.

But it didn't produce neutrons. No neutrons, no fusion. And so they denied the whole thing happened, claimed it was some contamination (I wonder what contamination you can toss in a glass of water to get electricity crackling, and lighting labs like strobo light; if that were indeed the case, that alone would solve all our problems no doubt; but alas, we don't actually want a closer investigation you see; it doesn't allow them to remain with their heads in books that repeating ad nausium century old physics as if it's holy writ) there was no cold fusion, turn away, nothing to see here, case closed.

Now, any TRUE scientists, would go something like this: "Wait a damn moment. We've got power production, recreation of this finding across the board; so much so we can see the energy with our own eyes. It isn't a faulty measurer or a little contamination that produces a small chemical reaction, this is big. But there's no neutrons. There's only two options:

1. Cold fusion somehow does not produce neutrons while hot fusion does.

2. This energy is not fusion at all, but instead it's something entirely different and new.

Either way; this is HUGE! This is ffing brand new physics! We can toss everything, or at least a good chunk of what we thought we knew out the window! We can almost start from scratch! This is great! This is fantastic! This is new research and new physics! Awesome! This is a whole new frontier! Imagine the possibilities and impacts on everything from every day life, to insights in the stars, gravity, planets and the universe! Let's get cracking!"

Now, there were a few who thought like that.

They were ignored, not listened to, not allowed to speak, especially not on camera, funding cut, ridiculed, and in general done everything to gag them.

They however did not give up; and continued onward. And only those who bother looking for this stuff, will find it's out there; because don't expect the mainstream ever to tell you anything about them.

Why are our laws of physics necessary in comics? I enjoy Batman because he takes a more realistic approach, but it doesn't make the JLA and superman one's bad.

Shit even if he had these powers he couldn't use them, you think there wouldn't be any side effects of moving at the speed he does? A jet gets within a mile of glass and it shatters and thats like mach 2. Think of what Superman does O_O

Why are they necesary? I explained it above. Without it, there's nothing; just some empty pile of shit where flees can kick humans in the head and knock them out; and such. If speed of sound could reach Superman half-way across the planet in less then a fraction of a second (lightspeed or even faster), a plane going at that speed - like a jet or the concorde - would also be zipping around the planet in fractions of seconds. It is world breaking, suspension of disbelief breaking stuff.

Not to mention it's rather depressing to think nobody has pointed out these obvious physical impossibilities from readers that are supposed to be geeks - aka intelligent science guys; and that that ridiculous crap was exactly why the DC multiverse got so bad they needed the crisis; and why Superman especially was rebooted to a more believeable and vulnerable level.

If I read Superman, and I read about hearing a bullet around the world, there'd be a letter and the dropping of Superman as a comic book.

It's a rather depressing commentary on the state of the education system; especially the American one.

It must be depressing reading comics as you :frown:

It can be; but the physics or lack thereof is only a small part of it. I've got really only a few keywords on the whole mess: Marvel, OMD, CW, Heroes are villains, Jeph Loeb.

No, these days, the comic I follow religiously as a magnificent breath of fresh air: Witchblade.

[Jorriss]

I'm not going to respond to the physics in that in that you appear to be both a conspiracy theorist, and an idiot, but mostly a conspiracy theorist [btw with your lack of imagination, I wouldn't go into a science field].

And doing anything you want in a comic book?!!? Even if they did exist in comics, which they cleary don't need too, they don't need to be ours.

Anyways, I think I'm going to go slit my wrists.

[3D Master]

I'm not going to respond to the physics in that in that you appear to be both a conspiracy theorist, and an idiot, but mostly a conspiracy theorist [btw with your lack of imagination, I wouldn't go into a science field].

Lack of imagination! HA!

If there was indeed a lack of imagination I would fit in PERFECTLY in the mainstream science field.

And just because I actually have enough of an imagination and interest to go looking around for information that doesn't come from mainstream sanctioned neutered crap, doesn't make me either a conspiracy theorist, nor an idiot. Quite the contrary.

[Jorriss]

Lack of imagination! HA!

If there was indeed a lack of imagination I would fit in PERFECTLY in the mainstream science field.

And just because I actually have enough of an imagination and interest to go looking around for information that doesn't come from mainstream sanctioned neutered crap, doesn't make me either a conspiracy theorist, nor an idiot. Quite the contrary.
So I hear this Superman guy hear shit faster than light? Sup wit dat?

[Alejandro]

So I hear this Superman guy hear shit faster than light? Sup wit dat?

I asked about the limits of his powers not wether or not they make sense. If you dont like Superman being so much imposible, then keep on with your witchblade and enjoy. Jorris, stop being rude with other people only because they want to argue, you like Superman comics so you might enjoy them as well and share the likes with others without having to fight those who doesnt...

I apreciate your help with the matters but: 3D Master you are going kind of another path for what the original question was and Jorris you aren´t repliying it in a very respectful way.

[Jorriss]

I asked about the limits of his powers not wether or not they make sense. If you dont like Superman being so much imposible, then keep on with your witchblade and enjoy. Jorris, stop being rude with other people only because they want to argue, you like Superman comics so you might enjoy them as well and share the likes with others without having to fight those who doesnt...

I apreciate your help with the matters but: 3D Master you are going kind of another path for what the original question was and Jorris you aren´t repliying it in a very respectful way.
Fair enough, to each's own.

[MythicBrawn]

I have no problem with Superman being the strongest, but the fastest should be given to the Flash. IMHO, Flash is the personification of speed in the DCU, thus he should have that title. Superman can still be fast, just know that he is second. Superman doesn't have to be the epitome of everything in the DCU.

[Alejandro]

I have no problem with Superman being the strongest, but the fastest should be given to the Flash. IMHO, Flash is the personification of speed in the DCU, thus he should have that title. Superman can still be fast, just know that he is second. Superman doesn't have to be the epitome of everything in the DCU.

Acording to a lin in the beginging of the thread that someone gave me he had been in tie withsome Flashes and some Flashes have won to him when racing. And I agree with you

[Jorriss]

Acording to a lin in the beginging of the thread that someone gave me he had been in tie withsome Flashes and some Flashes have won to him when racing. And I agree with you
Flash is established to have been faster, but it's always by a nose, although tie's are very common, I think Flash should just be plain faster, like in smallville.

[Toonimator]

In a foot-race, Flash should win. With Supes flying though, HE should win (just as any Green Lantern should, except Alan Scott, against a Flash; GLs and Superman can fly to other star systems under their own power, many times faster than light; ok, maybe GLs access hyperspace depending on the writer... but technically they SHOULD be able to fly faster than the Flash runs, if they will it)

Re: hearing sound half a world away, I just look to Superman: Secret Identity. Clark, surrounded by Superman jokes and lore for years, essentially grants himself Superman's powers. And somehow that "comic logic" applies to them in some ways. He doesn't know how it's possible, but while he was off saving the world in South America, he heard Lois give birth to their twin daughters as if he was standing right next to them up in the northeast US. Sometimes, that kinda mystery is good enough.

The comment "he's as strong as the story needs him to be" does kinda bother me, though, because while Supes can do something like race around half a world to stop a bullet from killing Lois in one story, in another, KC Superman can't get from thousands of miles away back to the Planet to prevent Joker from fatally injuring Lois. Ok, yeah, Supermen of different worlds, but there's probably plenty of stories where he can do some amazing feat of speed or strength, yet in the next one he falls short just to serve the plot. Sometimes that can be really annoying.

Re: moving a planet... tactile telekinesis! That's why it was mentioned in the New Krypton arc when Nightwing first appeared. Not as a red-herring "Conner" clue, but as a clue to an ability all Kryptonians possess, but most don't really know about. It's not what gives them their strength, it's what allows them to manipulate large objects that would generally break up if they didn't catch them/push them/pull them/lift them in just the right place. Their TTK-field basically ties them into the object, holding it together, so they can do what needs doing. Thus, if Superman and Supergirl decide to push the Moon somewhere else, their TTK fields will keep their hands from punching through the surface and allow the object to be moved!

Huh? Right? That'll work. Right? ...ok, so I missed the entire Superboy run, and the vast majority of Young Justice, and only really know Conner from Titans where his TTK wasn't talked about much, so I don't really know how it's all supposed to work... but if it COULD work like that, maybe there's something to it being mentioned in New Krypton as anything other that a throwaway red herring, and could explain some super-feats that defy real-world physics even more than regular super-feats do. :)