Guess who shows up in Black Panther #3

[Dr. Chaos]

BLACK PANTHER #3
Written by REGINALD HUDLIN
Penciled by KEN LASHLEY
Cover by J. SCOTT CAMPBELL
"DEADLIEST OF THE SPECIES," PART 3
The Black Panther is back...and she's badder than ever. That's right -- she! Wakanda stands at the brink: Something happened to T'Challa -- something awful -- and there's only one person who can replace him. As this brave soul embarks in the dangerous ritual to become the new Black Panther, the stakes have never been higher. An unstoppable force is headed toward Wakanda. Morlun -- Devourer of Totems -- is back, and he's hungry.
32 PGS./Rated T+ ...$2.99
Hey, if it keeps him away from Spider-Man, I can't complain.

Hudlin's kind of the last person I expected to use Morlun though, should be pretty funny.

[DarKye]

Good God, he just won't stay dead. He's like Kenny from South Park.

[yadadaimhollaing]

well its appearing in black panther so we know how serious this appearance will be taken :wink:

[James Conniff]

well its appearing in black panther so we know how serious this appearance will be taken :wink:

How many times does this guy have to die. He's shown up twice and been killed each time, Deargod, I'm hopingfor an Arm bar and followed by being tossed into a Volcano(nuclear reactor, Sun) and being destroyed entirely.

Does BP really lack that many good villains that the new series 3rd issue is using this D lister?

[Will.S]

One one hand, it's cool that Morlun's being used as a villain against another animal totem based hero. On the other hand, it's Hudlin so I'll be passing on that one.

[Cody H]

Does BP really lack that many good villains that the new series 3rd issue is using this D lister?He killed Spider-Man, what does somebody have to do to be an A-lister then?

[Cody H]

And don't say not suck.

[Mister Mets]

How many times does this guy have to die. He's shown up twice and been killed each time, Deargod, I'm hopingfor an Arm bar and followed by being tossed into a Volcano(nuclear reactor, Sun) and being destroyed entirely.

Does BP really lack that many good villains that the new series 3rd issue is using this D lister?Given the reception of JMS's first arc and the sales of "The Other," I think Morlun's more than a D lister.

I don't think this is a bad move. It's a villain that's a good match for the hero, and Hudlin's best issue of Spider-Man was the Morlun/ Spider-Man showdown.

[thursdaze]

Man did I ever hate JMS's run on amazing.

[Alan2099]

Ah, a crappy writer writing a crappy character. It's a match made in ... something. I'm not sure what.

[Dr. Chaos]

He killed Spider-Man, what does somebody have to do to be an A-lister then?
If Stilt-Man killed Spider-Man, it still wouldn't make him interesting.

Being strong does not automatically make someone a good character. Morlun definitely hasn't earned A-list status and he probably never will.

[Dr. Chaos]

And don't say not suck.
Morlun sucks.


Ah, a crappy writer writing a crappy character. It's a match made in ... something. I'm not sure what.
Theres something poetic about it, isn't there?

Hudlin is drawn to bad ideas like Galactus to a planet.

In that regard, I suppose it's only natural that he would have gravitated towards Morlun eventually.

[Muscles Coleman]

By some people's logic, Bane and Doomsday would be super A-listers.

[James Conniff]

He killed Spider-Man, what does somebody have to do to be an A-lister then?
Not s...


And don't say not suck.

Damn.


If Stilt-Man killed Spider-Man, it still wouldn't make him interesting.

Being strong does not automatically someone a good character. Morlun definitely hasn't earned A-list status and he probably never will.

What the good Doctor said.


Given the reception of JMS's first arc and the sales of "The Other," I think Morlun's more than a D lister.Morlun was a one note character who was used just fine as a one off villain in the first arc of JMS's run. But his God awful return (which just kinda happened) in the terrible "The Other" story was terrible.
And I'll avoid the sales comment so I don't go on a Loeb Hulk rant and how sales shouldn't be equated to quality...Damn! You made me mini rant!


I don't think this is a bad move. It's a villain that's a good match for the hero, and Hudlin's best issue of Spider-Man was the Morlun/ Spider-Man showdown.
I didn't even remember that he wrote the issue, was he the one who had his eye pulled out or the guy who had him grow fangs and spikes to kill Morlun?

Sure Morlun' resume looks good for that first 6 part story....but his reappearance and subsequent death in poorly handled "The Other" doesn't help him as a character.

[Cody H]

If Stilt-Man killed Spider-Man, it still wouldn't make him interesting.Well, it wouldn't exactly make him an "A-list" villain, but would it make him more interesting? Yeah, probably.
Being strong does not automatically make someone a good character. Morlun definitely hasn't earned A-list status and he probably never will.And being a relatively new villain who's popularity is arguable doesn't make you a D-list villain either. I'm not saying that Morlun is a one Spider-Man's greatest villains just because he killed him, what I am saying is that suggesting that he's a "D-list" villain is kinda overkill. If you don't like him, that's fine, but I wouldn't equate him with Man Mountain Marko in terms of villainy; having an impact doesn't count for everything, but it does count for something and I think there's a reasonable argument that Morlun's a little more than a one-dimensional "force of nature" villain designed solely to use Spidey as a punching bag.
By some people's logic, Bane and Doomsday would be super A-listers.Yes, probably. Do you think I should start a thread over on the DC Board to see if that's true? Maybe some other time.

[Mister Mets]

By some people's logic, Bane and Doomsday would be super A-listers.By what standard is Doomsday not an A-lister?

He's one of the few Superman villains recognizable to pretty much anyone who follows comics (along with Lex Luthor, Brainiac, Zod, Bizarro and Mister Mxzyptlk.)

He's been in some excellent comics (or at least one of them thanks to All-Star Superman #4.)

And he had a significant impact on the title.

[Alan2099]

And being a relatively new villain who's popularity is arguable doesn't make you a D-list villain either.
No, but when you're a new character that practically the embodyment of one of the worst ideas in a character's history, then you're pretty much destined to suck.

Spider-man needs ancient totem spirit eaters in his rogue's gallery about as much as Dr. Strange needs guys in 90s style high tech cyborg power armor.

And on top of that, he always struck me as poor man's Morbius only more "OH MY GOD!!! I CAN'T BELIVE HE'S THAT POWERFUL!!!" (say that line doing yur best immitation of a Dragonball Z character for full effect.)

Oh yeah. he sucks too.

[Cody H]

No, but when you're a new character that practically the embodyment of one of the worst ideas in a character's history, then you're pretty much destined to suck.Meh, I didn't really despise the totem concept as much as you, I guess. Again, not saying he should be considered a top tier villain, just that he's a little more formidable than, say, White Rabbit.
Spider-man needs ancient totem spirit eaters in his rogue's gallery about as much as Dr. Strange needs guys in 90s style high tech cyborg power armor..... Y'know, Alan, in alot of ways, we are very different comic book geeks.

And on top of that, he always struck me as poor man's Morbius only more "OH MY GOD!!! I CAN'T BELIVE HE'S THAT POWERFUL!!!" (say that line doing yur best immitation of a Dragonball Z character for full effect.)Save his look, I never really got the Morbius comparisons. Sure, they're both "vampiric," but they're very different characters. And Morbius always really bugged me for some reason.
Oh yeah. he sucks too.
And don't say not suck.What did I just say, Alan? What did I just say?

[ZeoVGM]

Man did I ever hate JMS's run on amazing.

His run was fantastic.

[Aziz Abbasi]

One one hand, it's cool that Morlun's being used as a villain against another animal totem based hero. On the other hand, it's Hudlin so I'll be passing on that one.
What's so bad about Hudlin? I love his BP/Zombies crossover during "The Intiative" so I suppose this will be cool

He killed Spider-Man, what does somebody have to do to be an A-lister then?Don't die, be a real threat, show repetitively

[Aziz Abbasi]

By some people's logic, Bane and Doomsday would be super A-listers.Bane Must be an A lister
Ah, a crappy writer writing a crappy character. It's a match made in ... something. I'm not sure what.Sometimes I eat two bad things together and they taste good together, why not give this combination a chance

[lou-bert vs. q-bert]

Wow, why all the hate for Morlun? Sure, he's not exactly A-list, but he was someone brutal enough to rip out Spider-Man's eye. What villain has ever done that or even thought to do that to Spidey? In my eyes, that's a useful villain.

[yadadaimhollaing]

Wow, why all the hate for Morlun? Sure, he's not exactly A-list, but he was someone brutal enough to rip out Spider-Man's eye. What villain has ever done that or even thought to do that to Spidey? In my eyes, that's a useful villain.

morlun = jms spiderman creation therefore its automatically garbage and sucks.

[Alan2099]

What villain has ever done that or even thought to do that to Spidey?

Carnage and Venom talk all the time about cutting Spidey to little pieces and/or eating them.

[lou-bert vs. q-bert]

morlun = jms spiderman creation therefore its automatically garbage and sucks.That was such an eloquently crafted and intelligent response.


Carnage and Venom talk all the time about cutting Spidey to little pieces and/or eating them.Good point, but they never succeeded had they? They were all talk and Spidey beats their asses ever time. I love Spider-Man, and I would have preferred it not to happen at all, but Morlun still backed up his brutality with eye-popping results.

[Leocomix]

I think it's a great idea. I would also like to see Morlun go after the Spidey villains since they are also totemistic.
Plus who else is totemistic in the Marvel universe? I think Tigra is.

[Shyft]

So Morlun still exists in continuity. i wonder when the lack of The Other powers will be addressed.

[Shyft]

I think it's a great idea. I would also like to see Morlun go after the Spidey villains since they are also totemistic.
Plus who else is totemistic in the Marvel universe? I think Tigra is.

Falcon maybe? he can talk to birds and stuff.

[Leocomix]

Falcon maybe? he can talk to birds and stuff.

I don't think so. Tigra did get her powers from a cat totem (Giant-Size Creatures 1?).

Also a villain called El Gato.

[whiteshark]

I think it's a great idea. I would also like to see Morlun go after the Spidey villains since they are also totemistic.
Plus who else is totemistic in the Marvel universe? I think Tigra is.

Doctor Octopus is.

[Leocomix]

Doctor Octopus is.

Octopus vs Morlun. The best way to establish villains cred is to pit them against each other. I'd like to see Octopus teach a lesson to Morlun.

[whiteshark]

Octopus vs Morlun. The best way to establish villains cred is to pit them against each other. I'd like to see Octopus teach a lesson to Morlun.

Ha.
That would be cool.

[Mister Mets]

Morlun's going to fight the new female Black Panther, so it might be a nice twist if the story ends with Morlun winning.

Otherwise, you have a case where a newbie superhero beats up someone who was once established as a major villain.

[Leocomix]

Morlun's going to fight the new female Black Panther, so it might be a nice twist if the story ends with Morlun winning.

Otherwise, you have a case where a newbie superhero beats up someone who was once established as a major villain.

I guess she can cheat. Because I don't see Marvel launching a new character and have her die right away. It's not been done often (Malibu's Exiles from Steve Gerber)

[whiteshark]

Morlun's going to fight the new female Black Panther, so it might be a nice twist if the story ends with Morlun winning.

Otherwise, you have a case where a newbie superhero beats up someone who was once established as a major villain.

But it looks like the new female Black Panther is going to win since is Black Panther.

Hapened the same when Darkhawk was launched.
He was a newbie Super Hero but beat Hobgoblin/Demogoblin.

[Cody H]

Don't dieBut that would exclude both The Green Goblin and Doctor Octopus, arguably Spidey's two top villains.
be a real threatHe killed Spider-Man. If you can't be a threat to somebody having killed them, I'm not sure how anyone could be.
show repetitivelyI'll give you that one.

[MrPalen]

Obviously the definition of "A-list" will differ between people. Let's see if I can lay out mine:

- be famous across comic readerdom
- readers must enjoy the character
- be considered by the hero to be one of his worst enemies (and not just in the story in which he/she appears, a-la "I've never been punched so hard in my entire career! My spider-sense is going crazy, more than it ever has before!!")

I think one short-cut test to see if someone is A-list is to ask "Is there any likelihood of this villain being featured in a movie about this hero?"

By these criteria I don't think Morlun could be considered A-list. Doomsday fits the bill though.

[Mister Mets]

Obviously the definition of "A-list" will differ between people. Let's see if I can lay out mine:

- be famous across comic readerdom
- readers must enjoy the character
- be considered by the hero to be one of his worst enemies (and not just in the story in which he/she appears, a-la "I've never been punched so hard in my entire career! My spider-sense is going crazy, more than it ever has before!!")

I think one short-cut test to see if someone is A-list is to ask "Is there any likelihood of this villain being featured in a movie about this hero?"

By these criteria I don't think Morlun could be considered A-list. Doomsday fits the bill though."Readers must enjoy the character" is problematic, as there's a lot of opposition to many otherwise A-list Spider-Man villains (especially Venom.)

But I agree that Morlun probably doesn't count as an A-lister. If only, because discussions about JMS's run didn't really mention Morlun that much.

[Alan2099]

"Readers must enjoy the character" is problematic, as there's a lot of opposition to many otherwise A-list Spider-Man villains (especially Venom.)
"Character must be popular" might work better. People could argue that they don't like Venom, but they can't argue that the character isn't popular.

[Mister Mets]

"Character must be popular" might work better. People could argue that they don't like Venom, but they can't argue that the character isn't popular.And how do you judge popularity?

[Alan2099]

Personally I don't. I just know what characters tend to get talked about alot and used often in the books.

[ShaggyB]

He killed Spider-Man, what does somebody have to do to be an A-lister then?

He needs to be genuinely interesting.... Killing a character or kicking the crap out of them doesnt = badass.

Doomsday killed superman. That didnt make him instantly dynamic and enjoyable. It took years of back story and character development to make some fans give a crap about him.... and still there are a bunch who see him as a plot device nothing more.....

Morlun was a creation for a purpose.... he served that purpose. Hes done. Now if BP can make him into something better perhaps he can move up the rankings... but he is a D list'r at this point.

[James Conniff]

morlun = jms spiderman creation therefore its automatically garbage and sucks.

I think this is over kill. I actually really enjoyed the first half of JMS' Spider-man run. I didn't see the Whole Totem thing as a definite retcon on his powers origin but rather was an interesting question for Spidey and the reader to ponder. It didn't bother me that much and some cool stories were told in that time. However, the last half of JMS' run was abysmal in my opinion. He opened it with Sin's Past and ended it with OMD (and crammed the Other in there as well for good measure).

[Cody H]

He needs to be genuinely interesting.... Killing a character or kicking the crap out of them doesnt = badass.Yes, I think you're right about that... Here's where I keep disagreeing, however:
Now if BP can make him into something better perhaps he can move up the rankings... but he is a D list'r at this point.I'm curious as to what other villains you'd consider "D-list." When I think D-list, I'm thinking one-off villains who've made little to no impact in Spider-Man's world. Whether or not you enjoyed the stories he's been involved in, he's notable in the Spiderverse if for nothing else other than killing Spider-Man. I think I'm starting to sound like a broken record at this point, so I'll try to define my terms a little more. To put myself in context a little, here's a tenative ranking of Spidey villains on the A-D scale.

A-list = Green Goblin, Doc. Ock, Venom, Hobgoblin (Kingsley).
B-list = Mysterio, Kingpin, Lizard, Scorpion, Electro, Carnage, Vulture, Kraven, etc.
C-list = Carrion, Demogoblin, Morbius (whom I don't really like), Hyrdro-Man, Boomerang, Jack O'Lantern.
D-list = Looter, Grizzly, Ringer, Man Mountain Marko, Doppleganger.

I'm interested in hearing some ideas as to folks would put Spidey villains on the continium, just to get a better sense of where people are coming from in terms of identifying D-list villains.

And for the record, I'd put Morlun on the B-list scale, with the outside chance of agreeing that he could be considered a C-list villain. D-list just seems a little harsh.

[hunter_peterson]

Ah, a crappy writer writing a crappy character. It's a match made in ... something. I'm not sure what.

Crap. A match made in crap.

Ba dump bump.

[lou-bert vs. q-bert]

Octopus vs Morlun. The best way to establish villains cred is to pit them against each other. I'd like to see Octopus teach a lesson to Morlun.If Morlun is a threat for Spider-Man, and Kaine was a lethal threat for Doctor Octopus, then I would tend to think Morlun would be a major threat to Ock.

[Evil-Spidey]

I only read the marvel zombies / black panther crossover from the whole black panther series, it seemed ok to me. Some of the zombies were out of character but it was better than loeb wrote in the last few years. I'm glad Morlun is back and i will buy it and i hope his origin and how he comes back from the dead is explained. If it's a group of Morluns not just one then i hope we some background on them.

[Cyclopsj316]

By some people's logic, Bane and Doomsday would be super A-listers.

Not sure about Bane.. But Doomsday is definitely one of Superman's A-Listers. ( The guy not only killed him... but he CANT DIE HIMSELF. He comes back stronger, and gives supes a run for his money, EVERY TIME. )

If Doomsday isn't among the A-Listers for Supes Rogues gallery... i don't know where everyone else ranks...

[Tobys]

That was such an eloquently crafted and intelligent response.

Good point, but they never succeeded had they? They were all talk and Spidey beats their asses ever time. I love Spider-Man, and I would have preferred it not to happen at all, but Morlun still backed up his brutality with eye-popping results.

Woah woah woah woah.

No

Spider-Man only ever wins by cheating, he has only beaten Venom in a straight fight once, in venoms comic Venom : Finale. Arguably venom was weakened.

Spider-Man always needs help with Carnage. Venoms help in fact he they backstapped and betrayed Venom.

He also stops anyone killing carnage which makes Peter partly responsible for all the deaths Cletus later causes.

[Tobys]

I think this is over kill. I actually really enjoyed the first half of JMS' Spider-man run. I didn't see the Whole Totem thing as a definite retcon on his powers origin but rather was an interesting question for Spidey and the reader to ponder. It didn't bother me that much and some cool stories were told in that time. However, the last half of JMS' run was abysmal in my opinion. He opened it with Sin's Past and ended it with OMD (and crammed the Other in there as well for good measure).

Yes thats all it was a theory to be considered posted by Ezekiel, it may be wrong OR can exists hand in hand with the science origin, its doesnt contradict.

OMD and Sins Past were entirely Quesada's fault.

The other was good and either way even if you didnt enjoy the story he needs the power upgrade to keep up with everyone else who have got one.

Wolverine regen factor went off the charts before 'Wolverine Dies'
Iron Man got extremis.
All mutants have had power creep and or secondary mutations.

SO:

Sins : Blame Quesada.
OMD : Blame Quesada.
Other : Neccesary if not good.
Rest of his run : Immense.

He saved the die after the Mackie run, got loads of people into or back into Comics/Spider-Man. He recieves no credit or recognition just disrespect from Quesada or Brevoort

so get the hell over yourselves BND lovers.

[ShaggyB]

Yes, I think you're right about that... Here's where I keep disagreeing, however:I'm curious as to what other villains you'd consider "D-list." When I think D-list, I'm thinking one-off villains who've made little to no impact in Spider-Man's world. Whether or not you enjoyed the stories he's been involved in, he's notable in the Spiderverse if for nothing else other than killing Spider-Man. I think I'm starting to sound like a broken record at this point, so I'll try to define my terms a little more. To put myself in context a little, here's a tenative ranking of Spidey villains on the A-D scale.

A-list = Green Goblin, Doc. Ock, Venom, Hobgoblin (Kingsley).
B-list = Mysterio, Kingpin, Lizard, Scorpion, Electro, Carnage, Vulture, Kraven, etc.
C-list = Carrion, Demogoblin, Morbius (whom I don't really like), Hyrdro-Man, Boomerang, Jack O'Lantern.
D-list = Looter, Grizzly, Ringer, Man Mountain Marko, Doppleganger.

I'm interested in hearing some ideas as to folks would put Spidey villains on the continium, just to get a better sense of where people are coming from in terms of identifying D-list villains.

And for the record, I'd put Morlun on the B-list scale, with the outside chance of agreeing that he could be considered a C-list villain. D-list just seems a little harsh.

Your D list id call F...

I'll modify your list, I dont necessarily agree with your placements but to help you see where im coming from with D list vs C list.....

A-list = Green Goblin, Doc. Ock, Venom, Hobgoblin (Kingsley).
B-list = Mysterio, Kingpin, Lizard, Scorpion, Carnage, Electro, Vulture, Kraven
C-List = Shocker, Demogoblin, Morbius (whom I don't really like)
D-list = Carrion, Hyrdro-Man, Boomerang, Jack O'Lantern, Morlun, Doppleganger.
F-list = Looter, Grizzly, Ringer, Man Mountain Marko

Dont get me wrong..... I love Shocker but hes a C-Lister and Vulture and Kraven often jump from C-List to B-List and back again.....

Basically....
A list is top teir fans latch on to them and they are mostly, when not over used, compelling
B list is guys with potential that hit more than they miss
C is guys who have great potential but are often whipping boys or badly written (Shocker recently gets a B in my book)
D are guys who despite having a hook to get the reader never seem to catch on. Seem forced
F are cannon fodder. These guys exist just so spidey doesnt make his C and D group look too bad.

For example with new characters

A - None yet.
B - Mr. Negative
C - Anti Venom, Menace, Hammerhead,
D - Freak, Overdrive, She Kraven
F - Dude in lex suit, The Bookie,

given some have potential to move arround but time is needed to make an A lister..... or a B for that matter. (Brock gets B just because its Brock and it really could go either way.... He could fall to a C or he could go A and join the Venom ranks with his new persona.)

[ShaggyB]

Not sure about Bane.. But Doomsday is definitely one of Superman's A-Listers. ( The guy not only killed him... but he CANT DIE HIMSELF. He comes back stronger, and gives supes a run for his money, EVERY TIME. )

If Doomsday isn't among the A-Listers for Supes Rogues gallery... i don't know where everyone else ranks...

Doomsday is B-C depending on how hes written. Hes a huge threat but hes not a compelling read. Braniac and Luthor are Supes A list. Most all the rest are B-C and then he has a few D's see toyman and some F's that never get mentioned again.

[James Conniff]

Yes thats all it was a theory to be considered posted by Ezekiel, it may be wrong OR can exists hand in hand with the science origin, its doesnt contradict.

OMD and Sins Past were entirely Quesada's fault.

I'll lay the blame of OMD at Joe Q';s feet, but according to everything I've heard from JMS and Joe Q, JQ shot down the idea of Peter being the Father of Gwen's kids, but offered up the possibility that it could be Norman. From that Point on JMS could have done what he wanted with the tale or scrapped it but decided to go the Osborn route. So JMS is on the hook for that story as far as I'm concerned.



The other was good and either way even if you didnt enjoy the story he needs the power upgrade to keep up with everyone else who have got one.

Wolverine regen factor went off the charts before 'Wolverine Dies'
Iron Man got extremis.
All mutants have had power creep and or secondary mutations.

So because other characters have a power creep going on, Spider-man has to have the same thing occur? That's a weak argument. What was wrong with his character that necessitated an upgrade?
Spider-man is always as fast, strong and agile as he needs to be for any story. Arbitrarily increasing the his powers doesn't really do anything for the character. And his stories didn't require his new enhanced physical abilities or the Wolverine "Stingers" or Night Vision, or "Web-Sense" and all the other nonsense he got in the Other. The new powers added no new dynamic to the character. Not to mention the story was just awful. If it had been a 12 part tale that made the Mystical powers an important part of the mythos that would be one thing, but it didn't. IT was just a subpar story that was ignored by it's main architect immediately after it was completed.


SO:

Sins : Blame Quesada.
OMD : Blame Quesada.
Other : Neccesary if not good.
Rest of his run : Immense.

Sins will remain on JMS.
OMD is on Joe Q
Other, was anything BUT necessary.
And the rest of his run had some entertaining stories...but I certainly wouldn't call it immense in anything other than size. Especially the stuff that came after JR Jr leaving the title.



He saved the die after the Mackie run, got loads of people into or back into Comics/Spider-Man. He recieves no credit or recognition just disrespect from Quesada or Brevoort

I haven't seen Joe Q disrespect him at all. I don't think I've seen him say a bad thing abut JMS. When was Brevoort disrespectful of Strazynski?

I think it is safe to say he got a hell of a lot of recognition while he was on the book. And they enjoyed his writing so much they put him on the relaunch of another Marvel Staple: Thor.


so get the hell over yourselves BND lovers.
Get the hell over myself because I love the currant direction of Spider-man?....Okay? Where's this coming from?
If you look back to what I was responding to I was actually coming to JMS's defense. I just happened to not enjoy the last half of his run. I think you need to mellow out there, Tobys.

[MrPalen]

"Readers must enjoy the character" is problematic, as there's a lot of opposition to many otherwise A-list Spider-Man villains (especially Venom.)

"Character must be popular" might work better. People could argue that they don't like Venom, but they can't argue that the character isn't popular.

It's the same thing. If a character is popular, that is saying that people like him.

As for the rest of this, I think it's a bit of an over-analysis of the "A-list B-list" expression.

[Alan2099]

It's the same thing. If a character is popular, that is saying that people like him.
Perhaps I phrased that wrong.

Let's say the majority of people like The Hypno Hustler, "people" in this case being comic fans in general.

That doesn't mean you have to like Hypno Hustler.
You could even go out of your way to find alot of people that don't like the Hypno Hustler, even to the point where the majority of the people in the forum don't like the Hypno Hustler. None of that would change the fact that the Hypno Hustler is popular.



(Ya' think I used the name Hypno Hustler enough times in this post?)

[MrPalen]

Perhaps I phrased that wrong.

Let's say the majority of people like The Hypno Hustler, "people" in this case being comic fans in general.

That doesn't mean you have to like Hypno Hustler.
You could even go out of your way to find alot of people that don't like the Hypno Hustler, even to the point where the majority of the people in the forum don't like the Hypno Hustler. None of that would change the fact that the Hypno Hustler is popular.

(Ya' think I used the name Hypno Hustler enough times in this post?)

Yeah, but again that's no different than saying "readers must enjoy the character". I'm obviously not suggesting that "readers" means "all readers".

[whiteshark]

Perhaps I phrased that wrong.

Let's say the majority of people like The Hypno Hustler, "people" in this case being comic fans in general.

That doesn't mean you have to like Hypno Hustler.
You could even go out of your way to find alot of people that don't like the Hypno Hustler, even to the point where the majority of the people in the forum don't like the Hypno Hustler. None of that would change the fact that the Hypno Hustler is popular.



(Ya' think I used the name Hypno Hustler enough times in this post?)

Lets not speak about Hypno Hustler anymore then,before he gets popular.:biggrin:

[ShaggyB]

Yes thats all it was a theory to be considered posted by Ezekiel, it may be wrong OR can exists hand in hand with the science origin, its doesnt contradict.

explain The Other's adoption of it? Explain Morlun confirming it.... and spidey getting stingers to hunt spider-demons with?



The other was good and either way even if you didnt enjoy the story he needs the power upgrade to keep up with everyone else who have got one.

Wolverine regen factor went off the charts before 'Wolverine Dies'
Iron Man got extremis.
All mutants have had power creep and or secondary mutations.

to what end... hes still written as being able to take certain characters now.... even if they out power him on every level..... That was one of the best things about spider-man... he went in the underdog in many fights and managed to out smart his way into a victory. He never needed upgrading.



He recieves no credit or recognition just disrespect from Quesada or Brevoort

when? JQ put him on the mega hyped return of Thor.... Id say its a better fit for JMS too... his magic story telling works loads better on a magic character....

And correct me if im wrong... but i dont recall Bevoort saying anything about JMS.



so get the hell over yourselves BND lovers.

likewise where'd that come from? Perhaps you need some time to cool down.

[Tobys]

to what end... hes still written as being able to take certain characters now.... even if they out power him on every level..... That was one of the best things about spider-man... he went in the underdog in many fights and managed to out smart his way into a victory. He never needed upgrading.



Except it got to the point where He wouldnt be beliveably able to take out the much upgraded everyone else even with his smarts it made sense to me he used both.

I still belive they exist in tandem. Every so often there MAGIC dictates there is a spider-themed guy.

Spider-man went to SCIENCE fair and got bitten by a SCIENTIFICALLY made radioactive spider.

I enjoyed the whole Peter (may have been) "chosen" because he knew what it was to be pray, the books upstairs I aint gonna go qoute it for you exacltly.

As for Sins past, I was under the umpression he had already made the kids and written the first bit of the story, THEN wasnt allowed by QUESADA to make Spidey the dad, and had to go with Norman to make it at all relavent. Therefore couldnt have scrapped it and if anything quesada forced him to make it someone else.

As for the disrespect, I call meddling with your stories destroying the romantic relationship and story elements you added to a character right at the end of his run after pocketing the cash from his long accliamed run, I call that disrespect.

They kept saying the developments in JMS didnt suit their crappy childish spidey they wanted but why not stop him or actually do some EDITING instead of retrospectivilly criticizing (dis-respecting him) long after.

As for the rest of his run not being excellent. Well i cant force you to belive it, but I and seemingly about 60% of spider-man fans feel it was, its certianly objectivly better and more mature then this BND crap with Freak Menace and Paper doll and all that boring junk.

[lou-bert vs. q-bert]

Spider-Man only ever wins by cheating, he has only beaten Venom in a straight fight once, in venoms comic Venom : Finale. Arguably venom was weakened.
Spider-Man always needs help with Carnage. Venoms help in fact he they backstapped and betrayed Venom.
He also stops anyone killing carnage which makes Peter partly responsible for all the deaths Cletus later causes.A win is a win.

As for stopping people from killing Carnage, well, that's just Spider-Man for you, but he's not responsible for the justice system that he beleives in. Besides, he's let The Punisher kill plenty of criminals n the past.

[ShaggyB]

Except it got to the point where He wouldnt be beliveably able to take out the much upgraded everyone else even with his smarts it made sense to me he used both.

So you cant see pete beating Sentry? Frank Castle did it. Smarts is sometimes all a character needs to have.



I still belive they exist in tandem. Every so often there MAGIC dictates there is a spider-themed guy.

Spider-man went to SCIENCE fair and got bitten by a SCIENTIFICALLY made radioactive spider.

yes but the other confirmed that the random act of the spider getting hit was not so random. It was suppose to be hit and it was suppose to bite him. When it was first purposed, the idea was it could have been all magic.... It also could not have been.... The other changed that.



I enjoyed the whole Peter (may have been) "chosen" because he knew what it was to be pray, the books upstairs I aint gonna go qoute it for you exacltly.

Thats good, for me it was a slap at the Lee era of Spidey. It took away from the main origin. Its something that did not need to be done to the character and it took away from the character.... Now instead of being a random science nerd.... he was the "chosen" recipient of Powers from some animal god. Makes Peter less.... for lack of a better words... connectible to.



As for the disrespect, I call meddling with your stories destroying the romantic relationship and story elements you added to a character right at the end of his run after pocketing the cash from his long accliamed run, I call that disrespect.


Sorry thats called business. They arent going to tell you hey dont buy into this stuff we will sweep it away..... why would you buy the product then.....



They kept saying the developments in JMS didnt suit their crappy childish spidey they wanted but why not stop him or actually do some EDITING instead of retrospectivilly criticizing (dis-respecting him) long after.

when did they say such things. links please. Id say them putting him on Thor was a major pat on the back. "Here do your thing with Thor and make him successful."



As for the rest of his run not being excellent. Well i cant force you to belive it, but I and seemingly about 60% of spider-man fans feel it was, its certianly objectivly better and more mature then this BND crap with Freak Menace and Paper doll and all that boring junk.

Well, let me ask you this.... if everyone else liked it but me would it change my position? You dislike BND, if i told you 60% of the people liked it would that change your opinion?

[NickGuy]

A-list = Green Goblin, Doc. Ock, Venom, Hobgoblin (Kingsley).
B-list = Mysterio, Kingpin, Lizard, Scorpion, Electro, Carnage, Vulture, Kraven, etc.
C-list = Carrion, Demogoblin, Morbius (whom I don't really like), Hyrdro-Man, Boomerang, Jack O'Lantern.
D-list = Looter, Grizzly, Ringer, Man Mountain Marko, Doppleganger.


Hobgoblin a list? really? I would put him on b, since hes always come off as a GG knock off to me. and Kinpin used to be an A-list villain of spideys, what happened?

[ShaggyB]

Hobgoblin a list? really? I would put him on b, since hes always come off as a GG knock off to me. and Kinpin used to be an A-list villain of spideys, what happened?

moved on to be a daredevil villain.....

[Mr.50]

Anyone read the end of Black Panther #2 and see that the Morlun is referenced for issue #3? What the hell is he doing back?

Mr.50

[sixela]

Its our favorite eyeball eating...
Morlun

Guess panthers are the new dish of the day...
:evilsmile:

[classicgmer]

Its our favorite eyeball eating...
Morlun

Guess panthers are the new dish of the day...
:evilsmile:



I don't see how this new Black Panther is going to stand any type of chance agianst Morlun because once he touches her it SHOULD pretty much be game over.

[ShaggyB]

wow, Morlun you say..... Pass

[classicgmer]

wow, Morlun you say..... Pass




Care to elaborate on that?

[sixela]

I don't see how this new Black Panther is going to stand any type of chance agianst Morlun because once he touches her it SHOULD pretty much be game over.


It will, but then she will go into some wierd panther-type-embryonic stage and emerge with new pantheress powers and pounce his ass out of existence.

:evilsmile:

[ShaggyB]

Care to elaborate on that?

his bad-A-ness was too forced in ASM. He was one dimensional and i was glad to see him die... i want no part of him now.....

[Dr. Chaos]

Black Panther being the blackhole of suckitude it is, somehow I'm not surprised it caught Morlun in it's nearby pull.

Have fun with your wannabe vampire on steroids, Reggie.

[HeckBoy]

Morlun's that animal totem-absorbing guy right? If so, it seems like BP would be a natural place to put him, given BP's connection to the Panther God (unless I'm misunderstanding the animal totem thing).

[ShaggyB]

Morlun's that animal totem-absorbing guy right? If so, it seems like BP would be a natural place to put him, given BP's connection to the Panther God (unless I'm misunderstanding the animal totem thing).

no you are correct... im not saying he wouldnt fit well there.... im saying hes a terrible character that seems foreced for the ohhhh noooo moment.... think Doomsday when he first landed in dc

[docholliday504]

As if Black Panther could get any worse.....Morlun! The three issues in SI were the only bright spots this book ever had. It's consistently been the worse Marvel's had to offer which is sad because I think Tchalla is a great character if done correctly.

Does anyone remember Black Panther putting the Silver Surfer in an Arm lock?? PRICELESS!!!

[The Complicated]

Morlun, Morlun, Morlun... you supposedly punch harder than the Hulk yet you suck more than... something that sucks really hard, like a vacuum or something.
Now Black Panther can enjoy his heartfelt speeches about croissants and feel his concern over how big his outfit makes his butt look...
Go, and never darken my towels again!

[Karl Cook]

I suppose the Black Pantheress facing Morlun could be a good idea for a story arc, what with them both being Totems for Animal Gods and all that.
However, I don't think I'll be picking this up.

[Mr. East]

This is a dumb idea. Morlun should just remain dead. Resurrecting characters has become so cliche. And I thought Morlun specifically sought after those who had connections with spiders? BP should get his own totem villain.

[James Conniff]

Glad I'm not reading Panther then.

[ShaggyB]

its it near official.... most of the regs on this board dislike morlun?

[Jim Thompson]

its it near official.... most of the regs on this board dislike morlun?Probably -- though I am not one of them. I neither like nor dislike Morlun.

He does have the disadvantage of appearing in one of the poorer Spider-Man stories out there (The Other).

[Keehar]

I'm indifferent to Morlun.

I can take him or leave him.

[Alan2099]

I suppose the Black Pantheress facing Morlun could be a good idea for a story arc, what with them both being Totems for Animal Gods and all that.
However, I don't think I'll be picking this up.

It could. If Black panther had a decent writer and Morlun was even a half way decent character.

I'll pass on the bad writer writing the bad Morbius wannabe.

[Joe Acro]

I liked Morlun. And then he came from the dead with no explanation and (seemingly) with new abilities.

Don't really care about the character now.

[lou-bert vs. q-bert]

I liked Morlun. And then he came from the dead with no explanation and (seemingly) with new abilities.
Don't really care about the character now.I liked Morlun too, and if he was as strong as he was in the comics, there's no way a bullet could take his (it's?) life that easily. Maybe with the new Black Panthress he will be depowered some.

[Mister Mets]

This is a dumb idea. Morlun should just remain dead. Resurrecting characters has become so cliche. And I thought Morlun specifically sought after those who had connections with spiders? BP should get his own totem villain.No, he killed any totems.

So, his appearance here makes sense, but I'm not getting my hopes up with Hudlin.


its it near official.... most of the regs on this board dislike morlun?Possibly. I honestly liked the character.

His first story kicked ass, and his appearances in The Other were not why the story failed.

[classicgmer]

Personally I don't see why there's so much dislike for the guy its not as though he's the only relatively new character to come out of the blue and put a fierce beating on a hero. I could see where people might have a problem with the temporary kill or Spidey stating that he felt that he hit harder than thor or hulk (I think thats what he said) but there were in story reasons given for why he said that.

[Joe Acro]

I liked Morlun too, and if he was as strong as he was in the comics, there's no way a bullet could take his (it's?) life that easily.I thought it made sense in context. A bullet took him out because he had become severely weakened by all the radioactivity.


...and his appearances in The Other were not why the story failed.Though they were part of making the story hard to follow.

[BlackToe]

All Morlun needs is a character redesign. Make him something that looks like something out of Ghost Rider. Instead of the 18th century thing he had goin on.

I dont hate or love him.

[Samy]

He'd be cooler if he got a codename that made sense, like "Totem Eater". What the hell even is a "morlun"? It doesn't make any sense, it gives no evocative imagery whatsoever. It could be like "oeirer" or any other random combination of letters, it doesn't provoke the imagination in any direction at all. Completely empty of meaning.

[Joe Acro]

What the hell even is a "morlun"?
It's his name.

Like how Hercules goes by Hercules.

[The Complicated]

It's his name.

Like how Hercules goes by Hercules.

But everybody knows what you mean when you say Hercules, it gives you a clear idea of the character (he's the mythical Hercules or at least someone that is very strong and does heroic deeds), Morlun doesn't really give you any idea about the character (except for maybe a bed & breakfast named Morlun in Northern Wales)

[Aziz Abbasi]

"WE WANT TO EAT YOUR BRAIN" Venom would say such fighting Morlun:tongue:

Morlun Rocks; he's one of the best new villains since 2k began so I'll pick this BP soon enough. I don't mind Hoodlun, he's actually good

[Cody H]

He'd be cooler if he got a codename that made sense, like "Totem Eater". What the hell even is a "morlun"? It doesn't make any sense, it gives no evocative imagery whatsoever. It could be like "oeirer" or any other random combination of letters, it doesn't provoke the imagination in any direction at all. Completely empty of meaning.I get what you're saying, but "Totem Eater" is not a step up from Morlun.

[Raptor]

I rather liked Morlun too.

I'm not sure I qualify for a forum regular though.

[Webslinger86]

I'm glad Morlun is back in town. Just put some clothes on the guy, and he's all set. :evilsmile:

[Aziz Abbasi]

He'd be cooler if he got a codename that made sense, like "Totem Eater".How's about this one: "THE DEADLY DINER":eek:

[Crowforge]

I am Ezekiel!
http://www.mcpeepants.com/frames/067ezekiel/frame1.jpg

[Joe Acro]

But everybody knows what you mean when you say Hercules, it gives you a clear idea of the character (he's the mythical Hercules or at least someone that is very strong and does heroic deeds), Morlun doesn't really give you any idea about the character (except for maybe a bed & breakfast named Morlun in Northern Wales)Okay. Alternatively, how about Thanos? That's his name. It doesn't really give you any indication of what he is.

[Samy]

I don't know about you, but for me, Thanos *strongly* evokes Thanatos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanatos).

[Cody H]

I rather liked Morlun too.

I'm not sure I qualify for a forum regular though.Forum Regular Criteria - You are an honorary forum regular if you meet at least three of the following criteria:

- Seven or more posts including at least one reference to One More Day (OMD) in which OMD is not the subject of the thread.

- Having at least 30% of your posts relegated to a Mets created thread drift.

- Experiencing a subtle, but consistent right eye twitch at the mention of Sins Past.

- Having an awareness of the 70s Clone Saga.

- Use of the term "Joephisto" (this one automatically qualifies you as a Forum Regular).

- You (a) silently weep for the loss of MJ as Pete's true love or (b) loudly celebrate Pete's newfound single status.

- You're contemplating a well-reasoned counter-argument to at least one of the above criteria.

- You have an opinion on whether or not Len Wein and Ross Andru's run on Amazing was over or under rated.

And just so nobody misinterprets this post as overly snarky, I have included an image of a housecat engaging in gramatically incorrect hijinx. Oh cats, will you ever learn to conjugate verbs?

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e22/cghouse/moderatorkitteh.jpg

[cosmoboy]

^^^one of my favorite posts in the history of the intartubes.

[drwho]

morlun is going to kill the current bp woman and storm is going to have to step up and save the day. I guarantee it,

[Karl Cook]

Forum Regular Criteria - You are an honorary forum regular if you meet at least three of the following criteria:

- Seven or more posts including at least one reference to One More Day (OMD) in which OMD is not the subject of the thread.

- Having at least 30% of your posts relegated to a Mets created thread drift.

- Experiencing a subtle, but consistent right eye twitch at the mention of Sins Past.

- Having an awareness of the 70s Clone Saga.

- Use of the term "Joephisto" (this one automatically qualifies you as a Forum Regular).

- You (a) silently weep for the loss of MJ as Pete's true love or (b) loudly celebrate Pete's newfound single status.

- You're contemplating a well-reasoned counter-argument to at least one of the above criteria.

- You have an opinion on whether or not Len Wein and Ross Andru's run on Amazing was over or under rated.

And just so nobody misinterprets this post as overly snarky, I have included an image of a housecat engaging in gramatically incorrect hijinx. Oh cats, will you ever learn to conjugate verbs?

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e22/cghouse/moderatorkitteh.jpg

Take a bow, Kirby!:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
P.S. I meet five of your criteria...

[ShaggyB]

Forum Regular Criteria - You are an honorary forum regular if you meet at least three of the following criteria:

- Seven or more posts including at least one reference to One More Day (OMD) in which OMD is not the subject of the thread.

- Having at least 30% of your posts relegated to a Mets created thread drift.

- Experiencing a subtle, but consistent right eye twitch at the mention of Sins Past.

- Having an awareness of the 70s Clone Saga.

- Use of the term "Joephisto" (this one automatically qualifies you as a Forum Regular).

- You (a) silently weep for the loss of MJ as Pete's true love or (b) loudly celebrate Pete's newfound single status.

- You're contemplating a well-reasoned counter-argument to at least one of the above criteria.

- You have an opinion on whether or not Len Wein and Ross Andru's run on Amazing was over or under rated.

And just so nobody misinterprets this post as overly snarky, I have included an image of a housecat engaging in gramatically incorrect hijinx. Oh cats, will you ever learn to conjugate verbs?

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e22/cghouse/moderatorkitteh.jpg

all i have to say is....

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2009/04/dudewaitwhat580.jpg

[Aziz Abbasi]

From your post; everything I put in bold is rubbed on me
Forum Regular Criteria - You are an honorary forum regular if you meet at least three of the following criteria:

- Seven or more posts including at least one reference to One More Day (OMD) in which OMD is not the subject of the thread.
- Having at least 30% of your posts relegated to a Mets created thread drift.Possibly

- Experiencing a subtle, but consistent right eye twitch at the mention of Sins Past.

- Having an awareness of the 70s Clone Saga.I do believe in fairies:tongue:

- Use of the term "Joephisto" (this one automatically qualifies you as a Forum Regular).

- You (a) silently weep for the loss of MJ as Pete's true love or (b) loudly celebrate Pete's newfound single status.Not that loud, just bored

- You're contemplating a well-reasoned counter-argument to at least one of the above criteria.

- You have an opinion on whether or not Len Wein and Ross Andru's run on Amazing was over or under rated.I do believe in fariries; I do, I do (Why do I repeat this phrase:confused: )I'm an equal to "Don't pee in the (Dead)pool" (yours is the name I find most impossible to cut short and put in a post)

[jackolover]

I can't understand how Doom pawned Panther in the first place. Didn't they once fight in the last series during the CW issues, and Panther had no problems with anything Doom fired at him? What was so different this time? If anything Panter should have put on his armor again and used the sword. I just don't understand how the story progresses when this relevant point isn't addressed.

[rZi]

Thats twice morlun has died now and come back to life. What are marvel thinking? He wasn't popular in ASM....it's throwing a D-lister into a D-lister book

[Mister Mets]

I do have to credit Hudlin for Morlun's portrayal in the story, in which a vicious villain (with a body count) was pit against a newbie superhero, without being diminished.