Which Clark do you prefer?

[Solaris01]

Dorky, shy, mildmannered Clark?

Or

Cool Clark?



And why?

Also, which type do you think works best as the disguise. Think about it.



Edit: OK, I need some help from the MODS here, please. I tried to set up a POLL with these two options (but it didn't work):

-Shy Clark

-Cool Clark

[Hypestyle]

Cool clark is better.. laid back, but not dorky.. look at the old 50's George Reeves superman series.. not the blatant goofball of the chris reeve films (which I love, regardless)

[The Batman]

Does this need to be an either/or thing? I think both can work equally well.

[Toonimator]

I like the laid-back, cool Clark. Dorky Clark does cause a bit of a "No way is HE Superman" reaction, but at the same time in a newspaper office and a world where there are heroes with secret identities that eventually become public, someone's gotta go "Maybe he's just acting that goofy as a cover!"

Cool Clark works as a disguise by just not trying so hard. Be himself, and let Superman be the disguise, with the more vocal morals or whatever. It's Clark's 'goodness' cranked up to almost haughty levels along with, perhaps, a more balanced viewpoint while Clark could express his true views on certain things (politics, sports, rights, stuff like that). Sports might even help the disguise, if Clark professes interest in football more than any other sport, but Superman predictably opts for "The American Pastime". Or even they just have different favorite teams. Little things like that. My favorite Clark was OYL, before he unblocked his powers... doing his reporting in his old Smallville High jacket, confident, and enjoying it. Yeah it was only a brief glimpse, but I liked it a lot. He still seemed to retain a bit of that after he got his powers back, he just added in the weak excuses to ditch work and save the city/world/universe.

Then the Donnerfication happened and kinda screwed that all up, though I've kinda enjoyed a bit of his pranks on Lombard and both he & Lois working on his 'act'. I just like Superman as the disguise more than clumsy hair-in-the-face Clark overall.

[Alex L]

Personally, I prefer cool-Clark, by which I assume you mean the guy who played football in high school til he found out he had superpowers.

The dorky, shy mild-mannered persona works as a thematic message (the seemingly quietest and the weakest among us -- even if it's you -- have powerful qualities you never expected) but I kinda see it as, like the monologue in Kill Bill 2, Superman as the real identity, and Clark the fake disguise.

[eBookGuy]

For me it has to be the laid back cool Clark everytime. I have a problem with the dorky Clark being Superman.

[Gadget3440]

Have you guys read Tom De Haven's "It's Superman"?

I thought it was wonderful, and that depiction of Clark is probably my all-time favourate.

[herogirl]

I think I'm kinda torn on the subject. I mean, I find dorky Clark sort of endearing, especially with him being superhuman, but cool Clark, that's just appealing. So, I know I'm not helping the argument, but that's my stand. I like both.

[Mat001]

I like both. Byrne's version was more realistic, though he did have a bit of clumsiness to him. However, the Clark who is timid works because it deflects people who are around him a lot from noticing that it's just Superman in glasses.

[WorstThingUS]

Clark can't be cool because people look to a cool person if there's a problem and they'd notice him missing. But a dork? Not so much.

And there was an excellent example of the "dork" being more natural than you think. In the Bronze age there was a story of Clark playing football with the WGBS team and because he was too busy thinking about Superman stuff he ran into the wrong end zone. Also, Morrison made it part of how he protects people without them noticing.

But I did like the seasoned newsman Clark that George Reeves did.

[CYOTI]

I prefer any version thats well written.

[Derrick Fish]

My favorite Clark was OYL, before he unblocked his powers... doing his reporting in his old Smallville High jacket, confident, and enjoying it. Yeah it was only a brief glimpse, but I liked it a lot.

That's my favorite "Clark" as well. Clark just essentially being himself.

[_OM_]

Personally, I prefer cool-Clark, by which I assume you mean the guy who played football in high school til he found out he had.

...Cool Clark, who would have either a) punched Steve Lombard through a wall the first time he smarted off or hit up on Lois, or b) filed a grievance with the Daily Planet HR department and gotten the misanthropic troll fired to avoid a lawsuit after he beat the crap out of him.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Aside from finding "Cool Clark" dull as dish-water, I think it misses the entire point of the character by watering him down to "The Adventures of All-Round Great guy with Great Parents and a Great Childhood and a Great wife and a Great job Who is Secretly the Most Powerful and Popular Superhero on Earth!".

It's the dichotomy of Superman that makes him work and stand apart from every other superhero out there.

He's an Alien from Outer Space, but he was raised as one of us in America's heartland.

He's an all-powerful god, but he thinks of himself as a mild-mannered mortal man.

He's the bravest, most selfless and courageous hero of all, but he pretends to be clumsy and cowardly to protect his loved ones, which is perhaps his bravest and most selfless act of all.

He's the strongest man on the planet, but he acts like he's the weakest.

And then there's the subconscious aspects of the Clark Kent persona that All Star Superman and Kill Bill's oft-referenced monologue explored. That Clark is Kal-El's critique of humanity, but, as Morrison pointed out, also a reflection of the self-doubt and feelings of inadequacy that everyone has, Superman included.

I also think Goofy Clark is an exaggeration of how he felt growing up as an outsider in Smallville feeling awkward and alone due to his emerging powers that must have manifested themselves in strange, embarassing and dangerous ways.

A football jock using his vastly superior physical abilities to defeat unfairly outmatched opponents just doesn't seem like something a guy who grows up to be f*&%ing Superman would do. He's not Spider-Man. The idea that Clark not only couldn't, but wouldn't, participate in sports for fear of hurting the other players displays the level of sacrifice that you'd expect from the boy who becomes Superman.

I understand the desire of some fans to have Superman never look uncool, who can be everything they aren't; the confident, assertive guy who never backs down from a fight, the high school football hero who dated the hot cheerleader, the handsome yuppie married to the sexy city gal.

But that's just not that interesting to me. There's no drama there. There's no sadness to balance out the hope. There's no pathos to ground the otherworldly being with powers beyond imagination in the reality of our largely mundane lives where we aren't the coolest, most confident or assertive guy in the room, we weren't the star football player, we don't have perfect lives with perfect wives and perfect jobs.

Light without little darkness to give it shape and contrast is lifeless and boring in both art and our imaginations.

That said, I think there's a happy middle-ground between these two radically different versions of Clark Kent. As much as I find the spaz-tastic Clark of Chris Reeve and Frank Quitely endlessly entertaining, I think you can tone that down to a less cartoonish level where Clark Kent is more of an everyman shlub. Not cool enough to attract much attention, but not so clumsy that it strains credibility that Perry even keeps him around the office.

In the end though, it doesn't really matter. There's more than enough versions of each interpretation to keep all but the most die-hard fans happy.

You like Goofy Clark? Read the current comics and re-watch the Fleisher cartoons and the Donner movies. Plus, there's all the original Seigel & Shuster stories and decades of Golden Age & Silver Age comics featuring that interpretation.

You like Cool Clark? Re-read the Byrne era comics, and re-watch George Reeves, Dean Cain and Tom Welling on TV (while "Smallville" certainly aims for the everyman hybrid I talked about earlier, it usually errs on the side of Cool Clark).

[Gadget3440]

A football jock using his vastly superior physical abilities to defeat unfairly outmatched opponents just doesn't seem like something a guy who grows up to be f*&%ing Superman would do. He's not Spider-Man. The idea that Clark not only couldn't, but wouldn't, participate in sports for fear of hurting the other players displays the level of sacrifice that you'd expect from the boy who becomes Superman.

Surely even Superman was a hormonal teenager once.

I can quite easily see Clark being "cool" at some point as a kid, but eventually regressing into the "dork" for the noble reasons stated, but only after having learnt vital lessons.

I think this (or at least an extension of) is part of the reason I can't stand the way Supes is portrayed in Smallville. I think Tom Welling does a grand job, but the writing leaves a lot to be desired.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Surely even Superman was a hormonal teenager once.

I can quite easily see Clark being "cool" at some point as a kid, but eventually regressing into the "dork" for the noble reasons stated, but only after having learnt vital lessons.

I'm not saying that young Clark Kent should be a saintly youth who never made mistakes or did anything immature, but to have him play football for years before realising what his actions were completely out of line does a disservice to the moral integrity of both Clark and Ma & Pa Kent, who allowed their son to misuse his abilities for so long. Not only would young Clark Kent not let himself play football, despite desperately wanting to, there's no way that Pa Kent would allow his son to play given the boy's abilities. Jonathan Kent's sense of fair play is one of the most important attributes he passes on to his adopted son.

An essential component to me regarding Superman's heroic journey is his struggle with the responsibilities his otherworldly powers place upon him. Having him use them for years as some vapid football jock before Pa finally tells him he's an alien, then having him completely change is too abrupt and changes the nature of the character too much. Superman should not start doing good out of shame or atonement for being a self-aggrandizing flake in high school. Superman should be doing good because of the values of selflessness and sacrifice his parents instilled in him as a boy.

[Alex L]

I also think Goofy Clark is an exaggeration of how he felt growing up as an outsider in Smallville feeling awkward and alone due to his emerging powers that must have manifested themselves in strange, embarassing and dangerous ways.

A football jock using his vastly superior physical abilities to defeat unfairly outmatched opponents just doesn't seem like something a guy who grows up to be f*&%ing Superman would do. He's not Spider-Man. The idea that Clark not only couldn't, but wouldn't, participate in sports for fear of hurting the other players displays the level of sacrifice that you'd expect from the boy who becomes Superman.

Depends on which interpretation of Clark you're using.

Super-Tot who picked up the tractor while in diapers, yeah.

A teen Clark who thought he was a regular ol' human kid who was just a little faster and a little stronger than the other kids -- well, what's wrong with that?

Then he found out he was an alien from another planet (which, like you said, begs the question of why the Kents didn't tell him til now) and he decided it wouldn't be right for him to play.

I understand the desire of some fans to have Superman never look uncool, who can be everything they aren't; the confident, assertive guy who never backs down from a fight, the high school football hero who dated the hot cheerleader, the handsome yuppie married to the sexy city gal.

I don't think that's it. Or, at least that's not it for me.

Think of generic Silver-age story, where Clark runs off and hides, Superman saves Lois and saves the day, Lois proclaims her love for Superman and pokes fun at Clark's wimpiness. Clark thinks, "One day, I'll get her to fall for me... as Clark Kent!"

That never made any sense to me. Superman is Clark. Clark is Superman. Thematically, I see it (Hey kids, Lois can't see past the most superficial aspects -- the suit and glasses -- and she misses what's right in front of her) but in-universe, I can't quite make it work in my head. Why is he that different from one identity to the other?

[Gadget3440]

Superman should not start doing good out of shame or atonement for being a self-aggrandizing flake in high school. Superman should be doing good because of the values of selflessness and sacrifice his parents instilled in him as a boy.


I understand what you're saying, and I guess it's some leap of comic book logic to suggest the Clark's hormonal state would be very similar to that of your average teenager, but between 13 - 17/18 years old raging hormones and being popular with your peers pretty much trumps lessons imparted by parents.

Perhaps I'm just projecting my own experience (and those of my peers) on to Clark. Probably am actually!

One thing I'll say, I don't do good out of shame or atonement, but because I've come to understand what is the right thing to do. The stuff I engaged in back then, yeah did bad, but it was crucial to me growing into the man I am today. I made my mistakes and I what I learnt was far more impactful than any lesson my folks tried to impart simply because the experience was first hand. I came to appreciate my impact on the world, those around me and the people I meet much much more.

Plus, unless the Kents instilled Clark with some severe disappointment complexes, I've always found it rather difficult to see how'd they'd have even disciplined Clark. How do you reward/punish a child who has the power to do what he wants? (this totally depends on the version of Supes though).

Blasphemous comment warning: In anycase, even the Bible shows God didn't start off perfect (if he exists, he still might not be), why should Supes? Perhaps Supes is our new God. (I blaspheme daily and nightly but I'm an agnostic so I'm allowed to)!

[dupersuper]

In the end though, it doesn't really matter. There's more than enough versions of each interpretation to keep all but the most die-hard fans happy.

You like Goofy Clark? Read the current comics and re-watch the Fleisher cartoons and the Donner movies. Plus, there's all the original Seigel & Shuster stories and decades of Golden Age & Silver Age comics featuring that interpretation.

You like Cool Clark? Re-read the Byrne era comics, and re-watch George Reeves, Dean Cain and Tom Welling on TV (while "Smallville" certainly aims for the everyman hybrid I talked about earlier, it usually errs on the side of Cool Clark).

qft Why can't we all just get along?

[Oceanus]

The dorky Clark, for all of the reasons in Kill Bill, Vol.2.

[Kid Kyoto]

I go for cool, but distant Clark.

my problem with deliberately clumsy, deliberately absent-minded Clark is he's just agonizing to read. Watching someone make himself look bad just to keep a secret is not fun.

But if you stop to think about what Clark's life would really be like, he can still be unpopular and have a lousey life without faking it.

Afterall here's a guy who is on call 24-7, is completely unreliable in his daily life and never tells anyone why. You have a meeting, a lunch, a date whatever and suddenly this guy jumps up, mutters an excuse and leaves. Sometimes he disappears for days. And anyone who tries to get close gets brushed off.

So surely all his coworkers are not going to like him. Sooner or later they'll decide he's a closed alcholoic (or worse) or a flake, or an ass.

Clark meanwhile does not dare say a word about his secret, both for practical reasons (his enemies will target them, someone might let something slip) and because of his own hang ups.

Silver age Superman had issues. Everyone he'd ever loved had been taken from him so he did not let anyone close. So writing him that way would keep the dichotemy of unpopular Clark, popular Superman, but without him having to fake tripping on his shoelaces every issue.

[eggie]

I like the mild-mannered dorky Clark for the movies, but in the comics I like the cool, competent Clark.

[Polterer]

Surely even Superman was a hormonal teenager once.

Why should he? He isn't human, and from everything we know about kryptonians it wouldn't come as a surprise to find out they don't have anything like puberty.

Just sharing something that came to mind while reading the thread :smile:

[Xybernauts]

I'm not really sure. I'm torn between the two. I like dorky Clark because of the way he was portrayed in Allstar Superman, but i like the way cool Clark because of the way he was portrayed in Superman The Animated Series. So I guess it kinda depends on how you're portraying the character and the story you're trying to tell. I can't stand Smallville's version of cool Clark. .

[MythicBrawn]

Cool and dorky are two extremes. For someone to maintain a low profile, he should be reserved, fade-into-the-background type. You don't get that with dorky, clumsy or cool. His "Clark" identity shouldn't excel at anything. His job at the Daily Planet should be functional-simply a place that he works to maintain an identity and keep abreast of world events. If he is gone for a few hours, no one will miss him because his job doesn't place him in the limelight. Samaritan, in Astro City, is a great example of this.

[Ironman2978]

I think Superman Peace on earth best represent this when he said as Clark Kent, reporter keeps a low profile at the daily planet so no one will miss him when he is being Superman but when he does talk I personally think he should act like Dorky, shy, mildmannered Clark(Fleisher cartoons, the Donner/singer movies. Plus, there's all the original Seigel & Shuster stories and decades of Golden Age & Silver Age comics, Geof John superman stories and Grant Morrision All Star Superman.) with some parts of the cool,confidant reporter Clark(the Byrne era comics, George Reeves, Dean Cain and Tom Welling) but most of the time keeps a low profile at the DP.

[Sean Whitmore]

I think there's a lot of wriggle room when it comes to depicting Clark. I've enjoyed seeing him confident and outgoing, I've enjoyed seeing him clumsy and awkward.

Where I draw the line is turning him into Ditko-era Peter Parker, disrespected by his peers and tormented over not having any friends. George Reeves wouldn't have taken that crap. Hell, even Dean Cain wouldn't.

Donner and Reeve played it well. Clark was a bit of a nonentity, but every once in a while he'd let his real personality shine through just long enough to make you realize he's having a great deal of fun with the masquerade.


SEAN

[Will.S]

I'm not really sure. I'm torn between the two. I like dorky Clark because of the way he was portrayed in Allstar Superman, but i like the way cool Clark because of the way he was portrayed in Superman The Animated Series. So I guess it kinda depends on how you're portraying the character and the story you're trying to tell. I can't stand Smallville's version of cool Clark. .

Cool and dorky are two extremes. For someone to maintain a low profile, he should be reserved, fade-into-the-background type. You don't get that with dorky, clumsy or cool. His "Clark" identity shouldn't excel at anything. His job at the Daily Planet should be functional-simply a place that he works to maintain an identity and keep abreast of world events. If he is gone for a few hours, no one will miss him because his job doesn't place him in the limelight. Samaritan, in Astro City, is a great example of this.
I agree with both of these gentlemen, I can't really pick one or the other but a middle ground is probably best for me. I do enjoy seeing both the dorky one and the cool Clark but it depends on how it's done like in All Star and in the regular comics.

Where I draw the line is turning him into Ditko-era Peter Parker, disrespected by his peers and tormented over not having any friends. George Reeves wouldn't have taken that crap. Hell, even Dean Cain wouldn't.
Which specific works would you be referring to?

Just being curious, I think Geoff Johns kind of went overboard with some of that stuff during the Braniac arc although I did mostly enjoy it on the whole.

[Sean Whitmore]

Which specific works would you be referring to?

Just being curious, I think Geoff Johns kind of went overboard with some of that stuff during the Braniac arc although I did mostly enjoy it on the whole.

Johns did a little bit (though he seemed to be reining that in near the end), but the worst offender that comes to mind is Birthright.


SEAN

[Will.S]

Johns did a little bit (though he seemed to be reining that in near the end), but the worst offender that comes to mind is Birthright.


SEAN
Ah, almost forgot about that one.

[Sean Whitmore]

Come to think of it, Rucka too, a little bit. Back when Clark was demoted to being a liaison to the MCU (or something), and he took all that guff from Montoya-lite.


SEAN

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Dorky, shy, mildmannered Clark?

Or

Cool Clark?



And why?

Also, which type do you think works best as the disguise. Think about it.



Edit: OK, I need some help from the MODS here, please. I tried to set up a POLL with these two options (but it didn't work):

-Shy Clark

-Cool Clark

Grant Morrison wrote the Clark I like the most: The perfect disguise for Superman. Mild-mannered, and even a little goofy. A goofiness he conveniently uses sometimes to save people without them knowing.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Of course, that wouldn't prevent him from being the best reporter the Daily Planet has, besides Lois.

[Solaris01]

Grant Morrison wrote the Clark I like the most: The perfect disguise for Superman. Mild-mannered, and even a little goofy. A goofiness he conveniently uses sometimes to save people without them knowing.

Agreed. Just not as goofy as the way Morrison wrote Clark or like Chris Reeve's version. Too over the top. It draws too much attention.

I prefer Clark's characterization to be more toned down , shy and a little dorky. There are lots of those in real life in those places. The guy that noone notices. I think it's much more interesting, especially for the big screen, personally. Routh's version is my favorite so far.

Cool Clark like how Cain and George Reeves played him is basically Superman with glasses. It doesn't work for me.

I like the way Elliot S! Maggin says it in this interview,

IDEAS: Have you seen the new film? What did you think?
MAGGIN: I loved it! Isn't that appalling? There have been dozens of us writing this character over the past 70 years, and what the makers of this movie did was take the questions we've been asking and begin to answer them. I don't want to spoil it, but they resolved the Lois and Superman relationship much better than I would have ever had the chance to do. And I was glad to have Clark back to being bumbling, because that's the way I used to write him. The manners are the disguise, not the glasses or the clothes, and Brandon Routh did a great job with that.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2006/07/09/qa_with_elliot_s_maggin/

Very interesting interview, btw.

[Samanthab]

I like the dorky and shy one it gives more mystery to his being a superhero nevermind the cool one.

[CannonFodder]

I prefer Clark's characterization to be more toned down , shy and a little dorky. There are lots of those in real life in those places. The guy that noone notices. I think it's much more interesting, especially for the big screen, personally. Routh's version is my favorite so far.


I agree on both counts. Routh was one of the few redeeming things in SR, and he played a great Clark.

[Will.S]

I agree on both counts. Routh was one of the few redeeming things in SR, and he played a great Clark.
I thought he did a very good job as well although I don't think he ever really made the role his own. He mixed in his own traits with the Reeve version but I'd like to see more confidence and a sharper wit next time.