Default Do people resent Post-Crisis Wonder Woman.

[Constantine Drakon]

It seems that some Wonder Woman fans seem to resent many of the Post-Crisis Wonder Woman elements. Such as Steve Trever being married to Etta Candy, Wonder Woman being willing to use lethal force if she feels there is no other option, the different use of Greek mythology... Do you agree?

[BnL]

I wouldn't say that I resent the Steve and Etta thing, but I think that it was a huge mistake.

I DO resent when writers portray Diana as aggressively war-like, willing to kill at the drop of a hat.

[AllisterH]

I despise using Heracles as rapist and I do the Spockbrow whenever it seems like the female Greek deities are generally presented as more benign than the males.

That's my only two issues that I have with Post-Crisis WW and even then, I did have every issue of the post-Crisis run (and even the abominable War of the Gods crossover issues/tie-is) including things like the Hiketia until recently

[4PointOh]

I love George Perez's re-imagining of Wonder Woman, but I do think there were a few missteps:

1. Making her come to Man's World well after the formation of the Justice League.

2. Retconning Donna Troy out of the Wonder Woman mythos.

3. Making Steve Trevor older and removing him as a possible, future love interest.

Though, I must say I loved just about everything else.

You know what it is that I miss most about George Perez's vision? It's best summed up here in an excerpt from Who's Who (1990) #4:

Wonder Woman is a kind and gentle soul who preachers--and demonstrates--the power of peace. Her methods are not those of a traditional "crimefighter"; her mission is to teach Olympian virtues, not to patrol against crime and theft. Nevertheless, Wonder Woman often finds herself in the position of defending innocents from harm: in such instances, she never attacks without provocation and fights cautiously and only as a last resort.

Wonder Woman is unusually trusting. The only thing that truly angers her is having her trust betrayed, particularly by other women.

Lately, it seems that instead of changing the world, the world has changed Wonder Woman.

[Black Atom]

"Resent" is a strong word. I disagree with/dislike some of the choices made during the Post-Crisis reboot. Chiefly, probably, making the Amazons into Spartans and playing up the "warrior" aspect of WW herself. I've never really found the renewed focus on Greek mythology and the Gods that interesting, either.

Still, the first WW comics I read were Post-Crisis ones (the Messner-Loebs WW in space issues) and I loved them for quite a few years after that.

[buttler]

I don't exactly resent the reboot, but I think making Diana the new kid on the block was a mistake, particularly having her much newer to the superhero game than, say, the Teen Titans. It would have been better to have her coming to town some years in the past, as they did with the Superman reboot.

One thing I do resent is the decision to make Hippolyta the Golden Age Wonder Woman, effectively making Diana -- as far as the outside world was concerned, anyway -- just Wonder Woman Jr. That's one "innovation" that I have to say I hate absolutely everything about.

[West Mantooth]

"Resent" is a strong word. I disagree with/dislike some of the choices made during the Post-Crisis reboot. Chiefly, probably, making the Amazons into Spartans and playing up the "warrior" aspect of WW herself. I've never really found the renewed focus on Greek mythology and the Gods that interesting, either.

I agree with this. I think, connecting to the revamp villains thread, when Wondy became a special baby born with powers, it sort of set her up as a character who requires only god/mythological villains to make a interesting fight. Cheetah had to go up to Flash level speed to even compete.

[buttler]

I agree with this. I think, connecting to the revamp villains thread, when Wondy became a special baby born with powers, it sort of set her up as a character who requires only god/mythological villains to make a interesting fight. Cheetah had to go up to Flash level speed to even compete.

Well, Silver Age Wondy was given her powers as a baby too, when the gods all came and gave her their powers as blessings in her crib.

As a side note, when I was a kid it always bothered me that Wonder Woman wasn't ever shown as stronger than Superman. Superman and Captain Marvel were always depicted as being equally strong, but Captain Marvel had the strength of Hercules, and Wonder Woman was specifically stronger than Hercules, just as she was faster than Hermes. So the way I did the math anyway, that meant she was stronger than Captain Marvel for sure, and probably stronger than Superman. But the comics never seemed to agree with me on that.

[West Mantooth]

Well, Silver Age Wondy was given her powers as a baby too, when the gods all came and gave her their powers as blessings in her crib.

As a side note, when I was a kid it always bothered me that Wonder Woman wasn't ever shown as stronger than Superman. Superman and Captain Marvel were always depicted as being equally strong, but Captain Marvel had the strength of Hercules, and Wonder Woman was specifically stronger than Hercules, just as she was faster than Hermes. So the way I did the math anyway, that meant she was stronger than Captain Marvel for sure, and probably stronger than Superman. But the comics never seemed to agree with me on that.

I heard somewhere that the Hercules Capt. Marvel gains power from isn't the same as Wondy's so you can calm your inner child.:smile:

And that's why I like the Golden Age mental strength.

[suedenim]

One thing I do resent is the decision to make Hippolyta the Golden Age Wonder Woman, effectively making Diana -- as far as the outside world was concerned, anyway -- just Wonder Woman Jr. That's one "innovation" that I have to say I hate absolutely everything about.

Me too. I think it diminishes Diana - and Hippolyta too, for that matter.

I don't get the impression that many fans "resent" post-Crisis Wonder Woman in toto, but just about every fan does have some particular aspect or plot point that rankles, and they'd prefer to see done away with or ignored. (For me, it's the Hippolyta-as-Golden-Age-WW thing.)

[RachelEvil]

I'd have a hard time resenting anything in a superhero comic.

[Black Atom]

Well, Silver Age Wondy was given her powers as a baby too, when the gods all came and gave her their powers as blessings in her crib.

As a side note, when I was a kid it always bothered me that Wonder Woman wasn't ever shown as stronger than Superman. Superman and Captain Marvel were always depicted as being equally strong, but Captain Marvel had the strength of Hercules, and Wonder Woman was specifically stronger than Hercules, just as she was faster than Hermes. So the way I did the math anyway, that meant she was stronger than Captain Marvel for sure, and probably stronger than Superman. But the comics never seemed to agree with me on that.

CM also has the stamina of Atlas and the power of Zeus, so maybe that explains it.

But really, I don't think that stuff is supposed to be taken too literally.

[bfrank]

It seems that some Wonder Woman fans seem to resent many of the Post-Crisis Wonder Woman elements. Such as Steve Trever being married to Etta Candy, Wonder Woman being willing to use lethal force if she feels there is no other option, the different use of Greek mythology... Do you agree?
No....I'm glad Steve's with Etta, and generally don't listen to the crab's complaining, in that they are just that....Crabs.......

[buttler]

CM also has the stamina of Atlas and the power of Zeus, so maybe that explains it.

But really, I don't think that stuff is supposed to be taken too literally.

And of course I know now that Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman weren't even originally from the same comics company, so it's not like anyone intended to ever tie their origins together when they were dreamed up.

Mostly, I think it was the budding logician in me. If you tell me that WW>H, and CM=H, there's no way I'm not going to conclude that WW>CM.

[4PointOh]

CM also has the stamina of Atlas and the power of Zeus, so maybe that explains it.

But really, I don't think that stuff is supposed to be taken too literally.

Wonder Woman used to literally outmatch Hercules and outrace Hermes. She did it several times Pre-Crisis.

[Red Jack]

If she'd just remove the restraining order we'd get along fine.

DIANA! IT'S ME, BABY!

Come on!

Y'know I loves ya!

[Flying Saucers Over Oz]

Thing that most annoyed me was the Candide-Meets-Barbarella personality she was given at first, the wide-eyed innocent who's nonetheless deadly in battle. Beyond being an obvious attempt to make her less intimidating to male readers, they'd already done that with Starfire.

[shrike]

Thing that most annoyed me was the Candide-Meets-Barbarella personality she was given at first, the wide-eyed innocent who's nonetheless deadly in battle. Beyond being an obvious attempt to make her less intimidating to male readers, they'd already done that with Starfire.

I actually liked her naivete early in the series... stranger in a strange world and all that.

I miss her original curly hair from the reboot, too.

The first two years on the post crisis WW were a dream. I liked everything from the origin to the supporting cast.

[Black Atom]

Wonder Woman used to literally outmatch Hercules and outrace Hermes. She did it several times Pre-Crisis.

I meant in respect to Captain Marvel.

[JKCarrier]

Captain Marvel had the strength of Hercules, and Wonder Woman was specifically stronger than Hercules, just as she was faster than Hermes. So the way I did the math anyway, that meant she was stronger than Captain Marvel

If you really want to get picky about it, how could Hercules and Hermes give Diana greater powers than they themselves possessed? I mean, if Hermes has the power to make someone faster than him, you'd think the first person he used it on would be himself! :wink:

[buttler]

If you really want to get picky about it, how could Hercules and Hermes give Diana greater powers than they themselves possessed? I mean, if Hermes has the power to make someone faster than him, you'd think the first person he used it on would be himself! :wink:

Ooo, this is nearing some notoriously tricky theological territory:

If God can do everything, can he create an object that he can't move? If he can't create it, then he can't quite do everything. If he can create it, then he can't do everything either, because one thing he can't do is move that object.

See, Diana brings up all kinds of thorny philosophical conundrums.

[Red Jack]

It never made sense for her to be able to outrace Hermes.

hercules is just a demigod and, in theory, could be smacked around by any number of things but Hermes is the GOD of speed. In theory any super speed Diana has comes from him. She should not be able to even match him, much less outrace him.

[buttler]

In theory any super seed Diana has comes from him.

"Super seed" is an amusingly disturbing typo, I have to say. Greco-Roman comics mythology gets more tawdry all the time.

[Fuzzyratt]

I love George Perez's re-imagining of Wonder Woman, but I do think there were a few missteps:

1. Making her come to Man's World well after the formation of the Justice League.

2. Retconning Donna Troy out of the Wonder Woman mythos.

3. Making Steve Trevor older and removing him as a possible, future love interest.

Though, I must say I loved just about everything else.

You know what it is that I miss most about George Perez's vision? It's best summed up here in an excerpt from Who's Who (1990) #4:

Wonder Woman is a kind and gentle soul who preachers--and demonstrates--the power of peace. Her methods are not those of a traditional "crimefighter"; her mission is to teach Olympian virtues, not to patrol against crime and theft. Nevertheless, Wonder Woman often finds herself in the position of defending innocents from harm: in such instances, she never attacks without provocation and fights cautiously and only as a last resort.

Wonder Woman is unusually trusting. The only thing that truly angers her is having her trust betrayed, particularly by other women.

Lately, it seems that instead of changing the world, the world has changed Wonder Woman.

Very well said and pretty much covers my likes and dislikes from the reboot.

The only thing I would add is that the set up Perez did got some of the writers that came after him to focus from to much on the "Warrior Princess".
I'm sure Xena wasn't helping that any either

[Red Jack]

"Super seed" is an amusingly disturbing typo, I have to say. Greco-Roman comics mythology gets more tawdry all the time.

LOL

and ewww!


typo fixed.

[Dazzler]

You know what it is that I miss most about George Perez's vision? It's best summed up here in an excerpt from Who's Who (1990) #4:

Wonder Woman is a kind and gentle soul who preachers--and demonstrates--the power of peace. Her methods are not those of a traditional "crimefighter"; her mission is to teach Olympian virtues, not to patrol against crime and theft. Nevertheless, Wonder Woman often finds herself in the position of defending innocents from harm: in such instances, she never attacks without provocation and fights cautiously and only as a last resort.

Wonder Woman is unusually trusting. The only thing that truly angers her is having her trust betrayed, particularly by other women.

THAT is the Wonder Woman I love. It's her philosophy, not necessarily the details. I don't worry too much about those, anyway. She can be the superhero in WW2 AND Post-Crisis Diana to me.

I think if every writer who writes her from now on just used that passage as a mantra to remember when writing her, she'd be consistently awesome.

--Dazz

[Wonder Watcher]

Lately, it seems that instead of changing the world, the world has changed Wonder Woman.

Regrettably, that does appear to be the case.

I love post-crisis Wonder Woman but it seems she has become too much warrior and not enough peacemaker. There's been enough reinforcement about her being an uber warrior who is prepared to kill to last me a lifetime.

I like the fact that she can handle herself and give the likes of Superman a run for his money but could do with less emphasis on taking heads and some more on some of her other qualities.

Like her soul, her compassion and attempts at reconciliation and rehabilitation, something that made her different from your standard hero.

Case in point was the recent battle with the Green Lantern where instead of just beating her opponent to a pulp she tried to understand them and get through to them, to win their trust. And she succeeded. That was the Wonder Woman I'd like to see more of.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

I love George Perez's re-imagining of Wonder Woman, but I do think there were a few missteps:

1. Making her come to Man's World well after the formation of the Justice League.

2. Retconning Donna Troy out of the Wonder Woman mythos.

3. Making Steve Trevor older and removing him as a possible, future love interest.

Though, I must say I loved just about everything else.

You know what it is that I miss most about George Perez's vision? It's best summed up here in an excerpt from Who's Who (1990) #4:

Wonder Woman is a kind and gentle soul who preachers--and demonstrates--the power of peace. Her methods are not those of a traditional "crimefighter"; her mission is to teach Olympian virtues, not to patrol against crime and theft. Nevertheless, Wonder Woman often finds herself in the position of defending innocents from harm: in such instances, she never attacks without provocation and fights cautiously and only as a last resort.

Wonder Woman is unusually trusting. The only thing that truly angers her is having her trust betrayed, particularly by other women.

Lately, it seems that instead of changing the world, the world has changed Wonder Woman.

You get it. You truly get it.

Agreed 100%.... With you AND Perez.

Another old element that made me sad but that I nonetheless liked was that, in leaving Paradise Island, Diana made the choice to forsake her heritage of immortality. I thought that was a great character revealing plot element.... She literally WAS choosing to give her life for those she chose to protect.