Thing's spikey form

[Gaastra]

Anyone remember the things spikey look from the 80s fantastic four?

What did you guys think of it? Do you think the thing should ever go back to this form or stay as he is? One neat thing about the spikey thing is he was stronger then in that form then his classic one.

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7448/fanfour.th.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fanfour.jpg)

[ComiXFanBoy]

pineapple thing is awesome. i wish we could see another mutation from the thing

[Beadle]

pineapple thing is awesome.
Agreed. And yes, he was stronger. But I still remember that Pineapple Thing faced off against Grey Hulk (who is clearly weaker than Green Hulk) and STILL lost, because Grey Hulk got nastier.

I don't think Thing has ever beaten Hulk, and even when more powerful he still can't catch a break.

[Britannic]

The thing lost to the grey Hulk because he had to fight a doom Hulk bot first then grey Hulk who used his brains over brawn to tire the thing out. From what I remember this Thing form wasn't popular with the fan base at the time.

[B. Kuwanger]

I didn't like it. I thought it was pointless as a power up and made him hard to look at. Wasn't a fan of Sharon, either.

[Hrungr]

From what I remember this Thing form wasn't popular with the fan base at the time.
I seem to recall the fan outcry as well. The Thing has a classic look that fans are loathe to have anyone mess with.

[GHalecki]

The Thing's classic look, a la fromthe Byrne days, is just the RIGHT look. It just works and fits.

Having said that, I do have a soft spot for the pinapple look. It was a pretty terrible period for the book, but I liked that aspect of it (and the fact that Johnny got a LOT more respect in that period than in any other period).

[Push You Down]

I loved spikey Thing. But hated the hide-skinned Ms. Marvel.

[ChrisIII]

Steve Englehart's FF run, which featuring Spiky thing,wasn't really that great IMO-the art was mainly trying to rip Kirby and the stories were kind of flat IMO. Plus the team wasn't quite the same with Reed and Sue in the Avengers.

Spiky Thing also showed up briefly in Walt Simonson's run towards the end (Although Thing was depowered for most of the run and She-Thing took his place-by this time she had become a rock-skinned Thing instead of the hide-skinned) but was completely gone by the time Tom Defalco showed up, although evil clones of the Thing such as the Infinity War dopellganger and that one Adam Warren arc have had the Spiky pineapple look.

[JoshuaCee]

I didn't like it. I thought it was pointless as a power up and made him hard to look at. Wasn't a fan of Sharon, either.

Agreed on both accounts. I'm also not a fan of the toothless Thing.

[The Scarlet Sapien]

Liked the Spikey look. Wish they'd bring it back.

[lou-bert vs. q-bert]

Spiky thing was cool. Hey, he mutated, it happens.

[Iron Maiden]

Did not care for the look of Spikey Thing at all but I would like to see the Thing get a power up, period. He got clobbered by the New Defenders right off the bat and never seems to get a good shot in anymore on anyone.

And on a side note, I do recall once reading an interview that Jack Kirby gave where he explained the Things outer layer is not "rocks" but more like a much tougher, scaly hide of like that of the dinosaurs. "Spikey" Thing did have a ridge down his back that was similar to a Stegosaurus or Triceratops

[Ronin1108]

i liked his helmet look better, damn wolverine lol..

[Verminous]

Loved the spikey Thing much more interesting visually, bet the artists hated it though. Much more work.

[GHalecki]

Did not care for the look of Spikey Thing at all but I would like to see the Thing get a power up, period. He got clobbered by the New Defenders right off the bat and never seems to get a good shot in anymore on anyone.

And on a side note, I do recall once reading an interview that Jack Kirby gave where he explained the Things outer layer is not "rocks" but more like a much tougher, scaly hide of like that of the dinosaurs. "Spikey" Thing did have a ridge down his back that was similar to a Stegosaurus or Triceratops

or dare we say....

GODZILLA!

[Zero Hunter]

I hate that this topic made me remember just how godaweful the Fantastic Four was back then.

[Beadle]

Oh c'mon - this is the era that introduced us to Fasaud, The Living Television Signal. What's not to love about that?

[T Hedge Coke]

Heck, the Thing was all pointy during the Simonson era and that was pretty good stuff! It established Gruenwald in his true place as the man in charge and patron saint of continuity. Replaced the FF with the goofiest big-hitters team. Had dinosaurs.

[Gaastra]

Funny a lot of you didn't like that time but as a kid i liked it. It was an interesting version of the team. Thing was the leader, torch who was less kid like, plus crystal and ms marvel who i liked better as a human.

Didn't they have secret wars 3 in the book at that time?

[coconutphone]

What made him spikey and what turned him back?

[Optimus]

Agreed. And yes, he was stronger. But I still remember that Pineapple Thing faced off against Grey Hulk (who is clearly weaker than Green Hulk) and STILL lost, because Grey Hulk got nastier.

I don't think Thing has ever beaten Hulk, and even when more powerful he still can't catch a break.

I know you've already been corrected but I feel the need to point it out again. Thing did beat the Grey Hulk, the hulk even admitted it at the end of FF320. Then the Thing defeated the Green Hulk, and then the Grey Hulk finally won the rematch while the Thing had to go back to b ack to back with hulks without a break. Also Ben didn't know it was the Hulk he was fighting, that could have adjusted his strategy. Surely it would have with the robot.

I like the pineapple Thing also, and I liked how strong he was. He was harder to draw but his look was better to me, less cartoony than what Ben had kind of turned into. I'd like to see them come back to it, they brought back Archangel, they can bring back pineapple Thing.

[redsea66]

They should stick that bucket back on his head. He's got a mug not even his Aunt Petunia would love.

[Ogrebear]

They could show what might have happened if Ben had stayed spikey in a What If... or an Exiles book!

[T Hedge Coke]

They could show what might have happened if Ben had stayed spikey in a What If... or an Exiles book!

They did. What if The Thing Had Continued to Mutate?. It was a one-pager and pretty funny, moreso because you could see ahead of time where it was going.

[stelok]

Well, I like the classic Thing form better.

[Justin K.]

They could show what might have happened if Ben had stayed spikey in a What If... or an Exiles book!

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/justinkos91/WhatIfvol200928.jpg

[Make Mine Mar-Vell]

I know there are some people that don't like this period and some that do, but as a huge fan of the Thing, myself, I liked this era and especially the power up, that probably had some thing to do with it.

Benjy rocks...one of my all time faves, It's cloberrin' time!

[bloodyarts]

I didn't like it. I thought it was pointless as a power up and made him hard to look at. Wasn't a fan of Sharon, either.

This.

Idiotic, useless hooks on knees and elbows. Looked like a Gamera villain. No thanks. Glad he lost that form.

And Sharon "She-Thing" Ventura... ugh. Is she dead, or in comic book limbo? Either option is fine by me.

[T Hedge Coke]

Idiotic, useless hooks on knees and elbows. Looked like a Gamera villain. No thanks. Glad he lost that form.

How are spikes on knees and elbows useless? To a guy whose primary occupation - aside from keeping Reed from having to buy a forklift - is beating on big strong monstery things?



And Sharon "She-Thing" Ventura... ugh. Is she dead, or in comic book limbo? Either option is fine by me.

She was tortured, manipulated, healed, and re-Thinged, by Doom back before Heroes Reborn. She may have then suicided. The funny thing being, those stories made her more useful than she'd been as a character in years.

[bloodyarts]

How are spikes on knees and elbows useless? To a guy whose primary occupation - aside from keeping Reed from having to buy a forklift - is beating on big strong monstery things?

I don't recall them ever being used other than to depict "cool spikey things" which pervaded that era. I remember I kept expecting him to be able to use them as projectiles, which would've turned me off from Marvel altogether.



She was tortured, manipulated, healed, and re-Thinged, by Doom back before Heroes Reborn. She may have then suicided. The funny thing being, those stories made her more useful than she'd been as a character in years.

LOL! Sound like terrible stories, but if she's dead, I guess it was all worthwhile.

[Sabaition]

Loved the spikey Thing much more interesting visually, bet the artists hated it though. Much more work.

My thoughts exactly, great for me, nightmare for artist. I personally liked Spikey Thing. Specially when he tatooed Grey Hulk in the FF title. Having him loss the way he did was a cop out by the Hulk writer. Grey Hulk digging tunnles at freakin light speed an apparently causing no ground trimmers. Not to mention Thing getting tired running after him, while Grey Hulk wasnt winded digging MAMMOTH tunnels, hmmmmmm.

I would love to see a return even if only for a short stink. Bring him back, let Ben BEAT DOWN someone for gods sake and give my boy back some mojo. Heck they can then down the mutation back, make a slight change to suggest some form of power boost remaining.

[Gaastra]

She-thing/ ms marvel is not dead. She was in avengers initiatve a few months ago. She's a member of the Mavericks team.

[StoneGold]

She-thing/ ms marvel is not dead. She was in avengers initiatve a few months ago. She's a member of the Mavericks team.

Well, not really. She was a Skrull. Which means the real one was probably on the ship, but no confirmation of that yet.

[Will.S]

Well, not really. She was a Skrull. Which means the real one was probably on the ship, but no confirmation of that yet.
Sharon was shown again in Avengers: The Initiative #20 at that support meeting that was held.

[drwho]

yes sharon lives!!!!!

[marshal99]

My thoughts exactly, great for me, nightmare for artist. I personally liked Spikey Thing. Specially when he tatooed Grey Hulk in the FF title. Having him loss the way he did was a cop out by the Hulk writer. Grey Hulk digging tunnles at freakin light speed an apparently causing no ground trimmers. Not to mention Thing getting tired running after him, while Grey Hulk wasnt winded digging MAMMOTH tunnels, hmmmmmm.


I thought Grey Hulk leaped hence why he's always staying ahead of Thing ?! His leaps can easily covered a lot of distance. I think he only dig a hole to lie in wait for the thing to ambush him as he has a lot of time since he's so far ahead of the thing.

[Iron Maiden]

Sharon was shown again in Avengers: The Initiative #20 at that support meeting that was held.


No, I still think that was a Skrull. She was last seen during Claremont's run on the FF where she was briefly a member of another iteration of the Wizard's Frightful Four and they were holding Wyatt Wingfoot's tribe hostage searching for some legendary gold mine IIRC. After Reed/Doom and the FF defeated them, Wyatt offered her shelter to help her deal with her issues. So maybe she's still out there in the Southwest with the Keewazi tribe.

As to an earlier question, both Sharon and Ben got their mutated form when they were pursuing the awesome Fasaud in a spacecraft and once again encountered cosmic rays. Later in FF 326 when Reed had to build a device to help Johnny regain control of his powers, another version of the Frightful Four (Wizard, Klaw, Titania and Hydo Man) broke in and knocked Spikey Thing into Reed's machine and he turned human. The whole Englehart run was a chaotic mess with Ben switching back and forth, Johnny losing control of his powers and then Aron the Rogue Watcher held them all prisoner and had some evil duplicates of the FF take their place. When Walt Simonson took over, he used a power suit that imitated the Thing and mutated to Spikey Thing again in FF 350...etc. He got changed back to the "normal" Thing in FF#354 as an after effect of being sent through time by the Time Variance
Authority.

[Make Mine Mar-Vell]

I'm not saying it was the best artistic design ever, (though if you notice I'm not saying it was the worst either, that was a different era), I just liked the whole concept itself of Thing finally bigging "the big man on Marvel Campus for a change", so to speak... not number two, but #1, baby....hope that made sense. :biggrin: You know the whole Hulk vs. Thing...um, thing.

I mean, you know...nothing against The Hulk, I mean who doesn't like The Incredible Hulk on some level?
But it was Ben's turn, and I know there was other factors involved, Sharon + etc., but still that's what I liked best.

However could that concept be drawn in a newer way that is more acceptable in the eyes of the bulk of "Ben Grimm Nation", (thought you'd like that;) and it's general populace of fans? Eh, sure, why not? Maybe they were on to something, a few pencil updates and there ya go, who knows?

All I know is I enjoy the character and for whatever reason I enjoy this period, it might not be something I want to happen again, but I can tell you I was enjoying reading those books, it has it's place, and for better or for worse, these responses everybody is giving to this discussion, tells you that people remember this period, some like the spikes, some think they look stupid or take away from the original artistic concept, in some ways it's ridiculous, but in others it was cool. I liked it myself.

Either way it was in the eye of the reader, but I think, or hope rather, that the one thing all Grimm fans can agree on was: The fact that it did give a long overdue elevation of the ever lovin' blue eyed Thing.

Is the spikey Thing look something I'd want all the time? No, but for the time it worked, even if it looked like Ben with a He-Man harness on with spikes. lol. Could aspects of further, more mutation from the cosmic rays of the original FF storyline effect his look over time, sure, why not? As long as it's done right in the now.

Is it something I'd erase? No.

However Did I enjoy it and do I remember it? Damn right.

Perhaps some new artist might take some aspects of that spike thing, but more subtle, and somehow with it, we can get something that helps the character, not changes the core of him though if that makes any sense. I do considerate a memorable part of the character's existence.

p.s. I know this would never happen, but please just humor me here...wouldn't a cartoon based on Marvel two in one (The lonely, rejected but still striving/classy heroic Thing teaming with a new Marvel superhero each week) be cool? Kind of like Batman: Brave and the Bold, but Marvel style. I dunno, just daydreaming I guess. Maybe get McDuffie or somebody to be involved creatively, who knows? As much as I respect the FF and everything the book has done over the years for comics, I always liked Thing as a solo character as well, and a team up cartoon would be killer, sure you'd have to get Spidey and Wolvie and Cap and so forth involved early, but I think it's be a hit and just imagine all the different combinations you could have over time were it successful, I mean I don't care who you are or how old or young you are, it's really kind of hard not to like The Thing.

Criminee, that's be awesome.

Anyways, thanks again, love to hear your thoughts.

*Kindest Regards

M.M.M.!

[ColdFury]

No, I still think that was a Skrull. She was last seen during Claremont's run on the FF where she was briefly a member of another iteration of the Wizard's Frightful Four and they were holding Wyatt Wingfoot's tribe hostage searching for some legendary gold mine IIRC. After Reed/Doom and the FF defeated them, Wyatt offered her shelter to help her deal with her issues. So maybe she's still out there in the Southwest with the Keewazi tribe.

So... the Sharon Ventura seen at Camp Hammond post Secret Invasion at the "I was a super hero abducted by Skrulls but was rescued in the ship and surely tested to be human by Reed Richards" support group meeting was a Skrull, huh?

If you say so.

[T Hedge Coke]

Wyatt offered her shelter to help her deal with her issues. So maybe she's still out there in the Southwest with the Keewazi tribe.

I must never write fanfic, or there's a Wyatt Wingfoot harem comedy series on the horizon. Sharon, Shulkie, and... how did Dorie Evans get in there?

[bloodyarts]

yes sharon lives!!!!!

NOOOOooooo!!!

[I am MODOK]

Spiky Thing got me to collect the comic for the first time ever when I was a kid. What an odd era for the Fantastic Four. He looked awesome though!

[drwho]

check it out

http://images.nextnewnetworks.com/2956.jpg

[I am MODOK]

Ugh, now She-Thing I can do without. I actually liked the terrible orange suit Sharon Ventura used to wear. She was in Unlimited Class Wrestling, right?

[drwho]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8ie37mgxIXA/Rq1eRVS0cwI/AAAAAAAABXc/LUFFiVJQilw/s400/thing2.jpg

[Iron Maiden]

Oh wow, now I remember how weird those two looked together necking on the sofa. :biggrin:

So... the Sharon Ventura seen at Camp Hammond post Secret Invasion at the "I was a super hero abducted by Skrulls but was rescued in the ship and surely tested to be human by Reed Richards" support group meeting was a Skrull, huh?

If you say so.

Okay, you made me go back and look...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/MB%20comic%20Scans/AvenInit20.jpg

Was it ever said for sure she was in the group, because I dropped the title after this issue. The character is never mentioned by name and to tell the truth, the image doesn't make it clear who all of them are. I thought the one one the bottom row might have been The Shocker.

[GreatLakesAvengers]

Spikey Thing was my favorite era of the FF ... right up until the big battle with the frightful four when reed and sue come back!

[Madison Carter]

Oh wow, now I remember how weird those two looked together necking on the sofa. :biggrin:



Okay, you made me go back and look...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/MB%20comic%20Scans/AvenInit20.jpg

Was it ever said for sure she was in the group, because I dropped the title after this issue. The character is never mentioned by name and to tell the truth, the image doesn't make it clear who all of them are. I thought the one one the bottom row might have been The Shocker.

She's bottom-right of the first panel. Yes, that's Ventura/Ms.Marvel/She-Thing.

As for the original question, I quite enjoyed "spikey" Thing while it ran, but much like Spider-Man's black costume, it made me appreciate the classic look that much more.

[Make Mine Mar-Vell]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8ie37mgxIXA/Rq1eRVS0cwI/AAAAAAAABXc/LUFFiVJQilw/s400/thing2.jpg

Wow.

Very cool.

What do you say about that?

Haha, what a strange but cool artistic piece...I think this could be expanded upon artistically, despite their appearance and outcastment (is that a word? If not, I just made it up.), their love and romance conquers all, and does so in a way that doesn't take away from the action/adventure aspects of the story in the big picture. Better said, it's still a strong Fantastic Four oldschool meat and potatoes kind of story, but these brief glimpses of happiness for these two are a cool contrast to what else is going on in the big pictute even if we reluctantly admit it, it doesn't make it one of those dreadful chick romance mags that so overtook Marvel Comics in the 1950's.

However, with all due respect to the artist, who does a remarkable job here, especially given the time, by the way, I think I would prefer a somewhat more femine looking version of She-Thing, but that's all up to personal interpretation, I mean would it really take away from their shared predicament if Sharon in rock was a bit more attractive (as far as rock people go)?

I don't think so, personally, because Ben was a rather stout guy originally, so it makes sense for him to be that way even with the rocky husk of skin. Pictorally, Sharon comes across as looking like 'pre spikey' Thing: "Version :Lite", if that makes any artistic sense.

I think She Thing could be done better pencil wise, but at the same time part of the appeal is a.) seeing our beloved hero, the ever lovin' blue eyed Thing, the outcasted ugly guy with the big heart and even bigger toughness finally get his match, similar to "What if the bride of Frankenstein actually loved the Monster?" kind of situation, and...

Of course, b.) The sheer ridiculousness of the whole thing that somehow still manages to move us.
Either way it does bring up questions of what we find asthetically beautiful in this twisted society, which is one of the strongest points of the original Marvel Bullpen's concept of Ben Grimm, I mean does it matter what's on the outside or what's on the inside? The inside, of course, I just think they could made her a little more thin, but that may be my own perception, can't help it, (don't even want to) if I love and appreciate the female artform, however, I think this can be addressed artistically without compromising the basis of their story and compatibility, in reference to the so called disfigurement.

In other words, She-Thing should be hotter, and I think this could be done without taking away from the She-Thing premise.

Either way, I think calling her 'She-Thing', having logos and the such, like it's a brand, cheapens it in some way, kind of like how poignant and truly patriotic Steve Rogers as "The Captain" (same era) was (still could be) but when they started actually officially calling him "The Captain" and gace him the 'official' black red shield that made it official, somehow it cheesed it out, so to speak. What I mean by that is the concept was rogue (not the X-Men character, the word itself) and it kind of takes that 'rogue' element out of the equation, so to speak, which was what made the concept kick ass in the 1st place. I mean we already know what the character stands for, it kind of goes against the original idea that made it compelling in the 1st place, if that makes any sense, he was making a stand. (A longwinded analogy, admiteddly, and a bit of a tangent, but valid and very logical all the same.)


Psssst...Just little nuances of the era that could be better in retrospect or if they were redone. The concepts, and moments like these can still work and more than likely will (meaning the rogue Steve Rogers Captain America/ Black and Red suited Daredevil / More powerful Spiked Thing with a counterpart + etc. Era) ... in a different interpretation, hindsight is always 20/20.

p.s. I think the Sharon Ventura character is used best as the She-Thing. As a reader, I was elated and related with Ben Grimm, the hero, finally finding his match. Sometimes I wonder how much The Thing, this era in particular, had an influence on the computer animated film character Shrek, as crazy as that sounds, yes, that's right...think about it. ;)

This is a much stronger rendition of the Sharon Ventura character than simply being a Ms. Marvel replacement, I mean everybody knows Carol Danvers is the real deal Ms. Marvel, and a big part of the women's lib movement in comics, only to be whisked away to binary-ville... and I think Brian Reed's work over the past few years solidifies that, just bring back her counterpart, but Marvel always seems to underuse these characters (The 'Vell related ones, at least until recently with Carol, however do not make her Captain, been done before with Monica) for some 'as yet to be discovered' reason. Moving forward, though, that's an entireley different discussion altogether.

Long Live Ben Grimm!

[vanhelsing2004]

I found this site explaining how strong is Ben.

http://enterthestory.com/fantastic_four.html

So Ben can press a thousand tons?

[T Hedge Coke]

I think I would prefer a somewhat more femine looking version of She-Thing

One of the more interesting elements of Sharon's character was that she was actually far more comfortable with herself, frequently, as a She-Thing than she was looking like this:
http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/thumb/c/c0/Ms_Marvel.jpg/440px-Ms_Marvel.jpg