Rob Zombie's "Halloween: The Devil Walks Among Us"

[Monty_Cristo]

I think you may have misunderstood part of my original post. Zombie never asked for any input from Carpenter. What he did was (according to RZ) was call JC and give him a heads-up that he was going to be re-making/adding a prequel to Halloween. It was a courtesy call more than anything (at least IMO) because he, like you and I, are huge fans of the original film; and yes, I do believe that RZ "gets" Halloween the movie and hates Halloween the franchise and I'm in complete agreement with him. For the most part the original Halloween II sucked as did everything that came after it up to H2O (and everything in Halloween: Resurrection after the death of Laurie Strode). The concept of the "Thorn cult" was awful, the keystone cops bit was ridiculous....I could go on and on. The Halloween franchise was like a bad parody of the original movie, it had reduced this great horror character to nothing more than Jason Voorhees or Freddy Krueger status. While RZH's Halloween has plenty of flaws it didn't treat Michael Myers like a joke in general or some cliched punchline in particular. To me the Michael Myers character is on a par with Frankenstein; despite all of the "evil" things he's done he's still a tragic figure that garners sympathy. I guess that's part of the reason why I like Tyler Mane's portrayal (sp?) so much. It was easy to tell that he had watched what Daeg Faerch had done as young Michael Myers and based his performance on that. Using only his eyes and body language I felt like I "knew" what MM was thinking and feeling (just like with Boris Karloff in the aformentioned Frankenstein).


no offense dude but i just threw up in my mouth a little. "sympathetic" and "Michael Myers" should never be used in the same sentence. you've just made me want to swing a branch at Daeg Faerch. he's not Frankenstein. you're thinking of Jason Vorhees. Myers is pure evil. Loomis speechifies about it, at length. Halloween (& the House of Sorority Row) got me into horror flicks. Halloween appealed to me because Myers wasn't someone you could empathize w/ at all. he was the boogeyman. this made him so much better than wise-cracking Freddy and shortbus-Vorhees to me.

[Monty_Cristo]

For awhile. But the character got scrapped for some reason

that reminds me. they need some actual kid campers in the next flick. that would make a little scarier. i couldn't really root for any of the protagonists in the first remake (Clay was good though).

[Legato]

that reminds me. they need some actual kid campers in the next flick. that would make a little scarier. i couldn't really root for any of the protagonists in the first remake (Clay was good though).

What the next movie needs is victims with a diverse personality that is as interesting as Clay's that you cant help but root for them. The majority of the protagonist in that film was nothing but a bunch of pot smoking douchbags.

[Guy1]

Yeah but if Jared really wants Clay to be killed off then I expect the opposite to happen.:frown:

What I liked about Clay is that it isn't often that you have a male in a horror slasher film that gets to be the hero. As much as I like to see the heroine defending herself against the crazed slasher I would like to see the male hold his own too. Which is what Clay did against Jason

And that is why we love Tommy Jarvis.
Survived three movies and two rounds with Jason.

[Arachnid]

What the next movie needs is victims with a diverse personality that is as interesting as Clay's that you cant help but root for them. The majority of the protagonist in that film was nothing but a bunch of pot smoking douchbags.I actually liked a few of them. Wade, Jenna, Chewie, and Lawrence were all well done characters I couldn't help but like and root for. The rest where your run of the mill douches to be killed and nice guys to be killed for effect.

[Dennis K]

no offense dude but i just threw up in my mouth a little. "sympathetic" and "Michael Myers" should never be used in the same sentence. you've just made me want to swing a branch at Daeg Faerch. he's not Frankenstein. you're thinking of Jason Vorhees. Myers is pure evil. Loomis speechifies about it, at length. Halloween (& the House of Sorority Row) got me into horror flicks. Halloween appealed to me because Myers wasn't someone you could empathize w/ at all. he was the boogeyman. this made him so much better than wise-cracking Freddy and shortbus-Vorhees to me.

I think we've gotten to the crux of our disagreement about the approach Rob Zombie took to Halloween. RZ tried to make his vision as 'realistic', or at least as realistic as possible within the confines of the genre. He wanted to explain the how and why of what caused Michael to be the way he is. The concept of pure evil has been done to death with all of the pale imitators that came along in the wake of Halloween's success. I have no way of knowing this for sure of course but I believe that the reason RZ decided to demonstrate that Michael was a product of nature and nurture instead of leaving it unexplained would have made his film just another shitty Halloween movie.

By having Michael be the result of the "perfect storm" of external and internal factors I couldn't help but feel sympathetic towards him. I mean I didn't feel bad for any of those killed up until he killed Danny Trejo's character. I still feel that the comparison to Frankenstein still applies more fully to the Rob Zombie version of Michael Myers (thanks to my belief that he was 'created' by the people and evironment around him) than the inbred hillbilly Jason Voorhees.

I do find this a great conversation by the way.

[tjarvis]

I think we've gotten to the crux of our disagreement about the approach Rob Zombie took to Halloween. RZ tried to make his vision as 'realistic', or at least as realistic as possible within the confines of the genre. He wanted to explain the how and why of what caused Michael to be the way he is. The concept of pure evil has been done to death with all of the pale imitators that came along in the wake of Halloween's success. I have no way of knowing this for sure of course but I believe that the reason RZ decided to demonstrate that Michael was a product of nature and nurture instead of leaving it unexplained would have made his film just another shitty Halloween movie.

By having Michael be the result of the "perfect storm" of external and internal factors I couldn't help but feel sympathetic towards him. I mean I didn't feel bad for any of those killed up until he killed Danny Trejo's character. I still feel that the comparison to Frankenstein still applies more fully to the Rob Zombie version of Michael Myers (thanks to my belief that he was 'created' by the people and evironment around him) than the inbred hillbilly Jason Voorhees.

I do find this a great conversation by the way.

See, the movie made me understand why Michael sort of became who he was, but it didn't leave me with any sympathy for him. Lots of people grow up with crappy home lives, most of them don't turn into raving homicidal maniacs.

I mean look at the poor boyfriend who was tapping his sister, the guy didn't ever do anything to Michael. Still, baseball bat to the head.

So all RZ did is give us the how of Michael without breeding any real sympathy (for me at least), which robs him of his mystique.

[Dennis K]

See, the movie made me understand why Michael sort of became who he was, but it didn't leave me with any sympathy for him. Lots of people grow up with crappy home lives, most of them don't turn into raving homicidal maniacs.

I mean look at the poor boyfriend who was tapping his sister, the guy didn't ever do anything to Michael. Still, baseball bat to the head.

So all RZ did is give us the how of Michael without breeding any real sympathy (for me at least), which robs him of his mystique.

I've got no problem with anybody who doesn't have any sympathy for Michael. The fact that lots of people grow up with crappy home lives but don't turn into homicidal maniacs doesn't prohibit me from having sympathy for the one in a million who it does have a detrimental effect on.

With regard to the boyfriend goes, let me tell you what my interpretation of that part of the story. It had already been established that Michael had a damaged/split psyche and when the boyfriend and the sister both abandoned him to go trick or treating on his own (and be ignored by other children) the boyfriend consigned himself to the role of yet another abuser within Michael's mind.

[Monty_Cristo]

I've got no problem with anybody who doesn't have any sympathy for Michael. The fact that lots of people grow up with crappy home lives but don't turn into homicidal maniacs doesn't prohibit me from having sympathy for the one in a million who it does have a detrimental effect on.


i respect your opinion. i can see what you like about Rob Zombie's addition to the franchise. but, from my perspective, he completely missed the point of the character. what separates Meyers from the others is his lack of humanity. Freddy is a sadist and possibly a pedophile. Jason is a mentally disabled brute w/ a traumatic childhood. Rob Zombie turned Meyers into the latter. you talk about Michael killing his sister and boyfriend because they were neglectful. that's why Jason's mom went on a killing spree. they were watching her boy. and Jason started killing people because he saw his mom get her head cut off. he's the sympathetic killing machine. Meyers is just death personified. to show him as a somewhat normal kid flies directly in the face of that. it was only scary because we didn't know why the little kid from a normal suburban family murdered his sister/why he would return after all those silent years to kill the other one. in the original, Loomis was terrified of his former patient. he came to see him as a genuine threat. that was completely unrealistic in the revamp, even with Michael being suddenly physically imposing. i'm rambling a little because i have a lot of points to get across. sorry.

[Andreas Tanis]

I totally understand any fan who says Zombie missed the point. While I enjoyed the remake, he definitely did. I understand it being a reimagining, but he could've still done it in a better way that shows how Michael was practically souless and had no reason to kill. He gave him a reason to kill....it's almost like giving the Joker a reason to kill. You don't have to do that.

[7thangel]

i could barely get through it and it confirmed my opinion that zombie makes terrible horror movies.

[Legato]

And that is why we love Tommy Jarvis.
Survived three movies and two rounds with Jason.

Zombie Jason I might add. The one that even Freddy had a hard time against in the dream world before Freddy decided to actually fight smart against Jason.

To be fair on Jason's part it was mostly PIS on how Freddy won against Jason in the dream world since the movies never mention that Jason is afraid of water

[Andreas Tanis]

The writers say they never added in the whole "I'm afrad of water secretly" aspect to Jason, and I believe them. Whoever added that in messed up big time. I can only imagine how many people were pissed at the sight of that when they saw the movie in theaters.

[Legato]

The writers say they never added in the whole "I'm afrad of water secretly" aspect to Jason, and I believe them. Whoever added that in messed up big time. I can only imagine how many people were pissed at the sight of that when they saw the movie in theaters.

One of the key reasons on how wrong that scene is that Jason was supposed to be a unstoppable force that shows no fear, none. That is one of the things that made Jason such a dangerous character

[Andreas Tanis]

There's likely so many different scenarios they could've done to stop Jason. Of all things they chose to use water. WTF?!

Still, Jason earned his badass status back with the F13 reboot. Mears made him a straight up monster.

[Monty_Cristo]

There's likely so many different scenarios they could've done to stop Jason. Of all things they chose to use water. WTF?!

Still, Jason earned his badass status back with the F13 reboot. Mears made him a straight up monster.

he's like the ultimate survivalist. those were some elaborate traps and escape routes he was using (well they are when you consider that he was mentally disabled).

[Andreas Tanis]

His disability seemed a lot more apparent in earlier movies, but in this one it seems like he wasn't as hampered intelligence wise by his disability. He actually was shown as being a thinking creature during that machete sharpening scene.

[hoffmandu]

he's like the ultimate survivalist. those were some elaborate traps and escape routes he was using (well they are when you consider that he was mentally disabled).

I'm not so sure he is mentally disabled.........he maybe deformed, but retarded? No.

[Andreas Tanis]

He was meant to be mentally retarded in the original series, but not heavily, I believe.

[Monty_Cristo]

I'm not so sure he is mentally disabled.........he maybe deformed, but retarded? No.

maybe a better description would be "feral" and "uneducated." he was described as a "mongoloid" in at least one film.

just found this. it was taken from wiki but seems quite informative.

Creating a monster

"Tom Savini applies make-up to Ari Lehman, creating his vision of Jason Voorhees.Initially created by Victor Miller, Jason's final design was a combined effort by Miller, Ron Kurz, and Tom Savini.[54] The name "Jason" is a combination of "Josh" and "Ian", Miller's two sons, and "Voorhees" was inspired by a girl that Miller knew at high school, whose last name was Van Voorhees. Miller felt it was a "creepy-sounding name", which was perfect for his character.[54] Miller initially wrote Jason as a normal looking child, but the crew behind the film decided he needed to be deformed. Victor Miller explained Jason wasn't meant to be a creature from the "Black Lagoon" in his script, and scripted Jason as a mentally disabled young boy; it was Savini who made Jason deformed.[55] Ron Kurz confirmed that Miller's version of Jason was that of a normal child, but claims that it was his idea to turn Jason into a "mongoloid creature", and have him "jump out of the lake at the end of the film".[54] Miller later agreed the ending would not have been as good if he looked like "Betsy Palmer at eight years old".[56] Miller wrote a scene where Alice is attacked in a canoe by Jason, and then she wakes up in a hospital bed. Miller's intention was to get as close to Carrie's ending as possible.[55] Savini believed having Jason pop out of the lake would be psychologically disturbing to the audience, and since Alice is supposed to be dreaming, the crew could get away with adding anything they wanted."[55]

[sam55]

Just so you all know I was not a fan of Rob Zombie's first Halloween I thought that it was weak and it wasn't shot in a way to make it feel scary, it was boring and my friends fell asleep. One friend was mad when I woke him up.

AND what makes the original so good is that you don't know too much about the Man in the mask. When you know too much then he is not as scary. The only way I'm watching this is if it's on cable so that I have the option of changing the channel.




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[Monty_Cristo]

Just so you all know I was not a fan of Rob Zombie's first Halloween I thought that it was weak and it wasn't shot in a way to make it feel scary, it was boring and my friends fell asleep. One friend was mad when I woke him up.

AND what makes the original so good is that you don't know too much about the Man in the mask. When you know too much then he is not as scary. The only way I'm watching this is if it's on cable so that I have the option of changing the channel.

i agree w/ you. but i'm going to watch this sequel just to compare and contrast. plus, there isn't much else out that's horror-related to watch. i think Trick R'Treat might be coming out around then, though. me, personally, i like the idea that whoever that little kid was before murdering his sister just kind of disappeared at some point. all that was left was some mission driven evil patiently waiting for a chance to escape the sanitarium and go on a killing spree. that would be all sorts of creepy to me; if that were my sibling or if i lived in Haddonfield. and i gotta be honest, i don't think Myers had to be Tyler Mane-sized. it makes a good visual but the original was quite imposing. or, at least, his strength made up for anything he lacked in height. what would Tyler Mane's version have done if Joe Grizzly hadn't worn his jumpsuit that day?

[Andreas Tanis]

maybe a better description would be "feral" and "uneducated." he was described as a "mongoloid" in at least one film.

just found this. it was taken from wiki but seems quite informative.

Creating a monster

"Tom Savini applies make-up to Ari Lehman, creating his vision of Jason Voorhees.Initially created by Victor Miller, Jason's final design was a combined effort by Miller, Ron Kurz, and Tom Savini.[54] The name "Jason" is a combination of "Josh" and "Ian", Miller's two sons, and "Voorhees" was inspired by a girl that Miller knew at high school, whose last name was Van Voorhees. Miller felt it was a "creepy-sounding name", which was perfect for his character.[54] Miller initially wrote Jason as a normal looking child, but the crew behind the film decided he needed to be deformed. Victor Miller explained Jason wasn't meant to be a creature from the "Black Lagoon" in his script, and scripted Jason as a mentally disabled young boy; it was Savini who made Jason deformed.[55] Ron Kurz confirmed that Miller's version of Jason was that of a normal child, but claims that it was his idea to turn Jason into a "mongoloid creature", and have him "jump out of the lake at the end of the film".[54] Miller later agreed the ending would not have been as good if he looked like "Betsy Palmer at eight years old".[56] Miller wrote a scene where Alice is attacked in a canoe by Jason, and then she wakes up in a hospital bed. Miller's intention was to get as close to Carrie's ending as possible.[55] Savini believed having Jason pop out of the lake would be psychologically disturbing to the audience, and since Alice is supposed to be dreaming, the crew could get away with adding anything they wanted."[55]

Not to mention that Pamela kept Jason away from the other kids at camp because of his disability. Jason was never meant to be normal in the complete sense of the word.

[Dennis K]

I totally understand any fan who says Zombie missed the point. While I enjoyed the remake, he definitely did. I understand it being a reimagining, but he could've still done it in a better way that shows how Michael was practically souless and had no reason to kill. He gave him a reason to kill....it's almost like giving the Joker a reason to kill. You don't have to do that.


Actually (IMO) he HAD to do that because if you don't take a different approach, all you're really doing is copying either the same thing Carpenter did in original, or what the other directors did in a whole series of very shitty sequels

[hoffmandu]

Not to mention that Pamela kept Jason away from the other kids at camp because of his disability. Jason was never meant to be normal in the complete sense of the word.

Disability or deformity...........retard and retard looking are 2 different animals. I'm taking the stance of Deformed Retard Vengeance (awesome title for a flick of it's own, I know).

[Monty_Cristo]

Disability or deformity...........retard and retard looking are 2 different animals. I'm taking the stance of Deformed Retard Vengeance (awesome title for a flick of it's own, I know).

have you watched the movie Retardead? it's pretty bad.

[Monty_Cristo]

Actually (IMO) he HAD to do that because if you don't take a different approach, all you're really doing is copying either the same thing Carpenter did in original, or what the other directors did in a whole series of very shitty sequels

technically he didn't have to. he could have paid tribute to the original and just copied it; using Tyler Mane as the new Myers. that wouldn't have bothered me. but i'm, apparently, not the target audience. he also could have thought up his own idea; non-Michael Myers related. the sequels were shtty because all they were really concerned with was making money with a proven money-maker. :)

[Dennis K]

technically he didn't have to. he could have paid tribute to the original and just copied it; using Tyler Mane as the new Myers. that wouldn't have bothered me. but i'm, apparently, not the target audience. he also could have thought up his own idea; non-Michael Myers related. the sequels were shtty because all they were really concerned with was making money with a proven money-maker. :)



Paying tribute to the original and just copying it didn't really work out to well for the Psycho remake that starred Vince Vaughan (if I remember correctly). A lot of complaints at that time were along the lines of 'if you're just going to remake the original, what's the point'?

[Monty_Cristo]

Paying tribute to the original and just copying it didn't really work out to well for the Psycho remake that starred Vince Vaughan (if I remember correctly). A lot of complaints at that time were along the lines of 'if you're just going to remake the original, what's the point'?

Psycho had a completely different tone to it. it was a movie that hinged on two things; Anthony Perkins' performance and the surprise that Norman's mother wasn't real. there is no surprise in the original Halloween and the Shape's acting has more to do with the way he moves/looks.

[Phantom Druid]

Michael Myers is a force of nature, Pure EVIL incarnate. Zombie tried to explain that, and his childhood, and it sucked...hard. While I did enjoy Zombie's movie to an extent, I will agree with your comment that trying to "explain it" was not an upside to this film. Just like H.P. Lovecraft said..."The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown." That's part of what made the original scary. Explaining everything takes a certain element out of it. The original two films only made vague referances about michael. like he was simply, "pure evil" or "rage." One part mentioned something about Samhain, which might lead you to believe he was a Celtic demon or something, but still... you didn't know. It was very vague. You wondered what the hell made Michael tick. Zombie's version took the mystery and fear out of it.

[Andreas Tanis]

I don't think RZH sucked at all. Sure, like a lot of movies it had some flaws, but I don't think it was nearly as bad as people try to make it out to be. For me, it's one of my favorite Halloween movies of all time, and I'm anxiously awaiting the sequel, which looks awesome.

[Monty_Cristo]

I don't think RZH sucked at all. Sure, like a lot of movies it had some flaws, but I don't think it was nearly as bad as people try to make it out to be. For me, it's one of my favorite Halloween movies of all time, and I'm anxiously awaiting the sequel, which looks awesome.

no, it wasn't a bad movie. it was a bad reinterpretation of a classic (imo). let's say that Carpenter had never made Halloween. instead, for some strange reason, Rob Zombie had this brilliant idea for a movie and it turned out to be this new version of Halloween. that would have been enjoyable for what it was. but it wasn't Rob Zombie's idea. it was Rob Zombie trying to tweak Carpenter's idea. i don't think his tweak worked in the way that it was intended. i don't think he made Halloween better; just different.

P.S. feel free not to answer but did you grow up in the 80s? i'm trying to figure out if this is a generational thing. Halloween was made in 1978. i was born in 1979. and i've been watching horror movies since i was 5. and i'm from Illinois. so the movie stuck out to me.

[Dennis K]

P.S. feel free not to answer but did you grow up in the 80s? i'm trying to figure out if this is a generational thing. Halloween was made in 1978. i was born in 1979. and i've been watching horror movies since i was 5. and i'm from Illinois. so the movie stuck out to me.


I know you were'nt addressing me directly but I thought I'd answer anyway (I'm like that). I was born in 1963 and have been watching horror movies quite a long time as well. I used to think of Halloween as this untouchable masterpiece that should never be remade or what-have-you, until I read something that RZ said (and I'm paraphrasing here) 'just because I'm making this movie doesn't mean the original isn't still out there'

[Monty_Cristo]

I know you were'nt addressing me directly but I thought I'd answer anyway (I'm like that). I was born in 1963 and have been watching horror movies quite a long time as well. I used to think of Halloween as this untouchable masterpiece that should never be remade or what-have-you, until I read something that RZ said (and I'm paraphrasing here) 'just because I'm making this movie doesn't mean the original isn't still out there'

i have no problem with there being a remake. i just don't think it compares favorably to the original. and i'm not judging this blindly. i paid the admission price to see Zombie's picture. :')

[Eric Henson]

I used to think of Halloween as this untouchable masterpiece
I still do.

[Legato]

The Original Halloween will always stand out as one of the best. RZH has it's own thing and I respect what Rob is trying to do with it. He atleast have enough respect for Carpenter to not have his movie be connected with Carpenter's Halloween.

I just look at this movie as a alternate universe version of halloween and accept it as that

[Dennis K]

It pains me to report that alledgedly that in L.A. and N.Y.C. test screenings the movie has gotten slammed for being terrible. I hope that it's just rumors.

[The Zapper]

It pains me to report that alledgedly that in L.A. and N.Y.C. test screenings the movie has gotten slammed for being terrible. I hope that it's just rumors.

Well, the first one sucked, so it's not surprising that the second one would too.

[Monty_Cristo]

It pains me to report that alledgedly that in L.A. and N.Y.C. test screenings the movie has gotten slammed for being terrible. I hope that it's just rumors.


i still have Trick R'Treat and Sorority Row to look forward to. they can't all suck.

[Eric Henson]

It pains me to report that alledgedly that in L.A. and N.Y.C. test screenings the movie has gotten slammed for being terrible. I hope that it's just rumors.

Not suprising. Not sure this second one is even needed. The original Halloween and Halloween 2 were good enough for me. Meanwhile, I've never liked a single Zombie film and must be too narrow-minded to understand his brand of "filmaking". I don't get it. It must not be for me...

[Monty_Cristo]

Not suprising. Not sure this second one is even needed. The original Halloween and Halloween 2 were good enough for me. Meanwhile, I've never liked a single Zombie film and must be too narrow-minded to understand his brand of "filmaking". I don't get it. It must not be for me...

i actually enjoy Zombie's music. but, for whatever reason, his artistic vision doesn't translate all that well to the big screen. but there are many similarities between them; the music and his brand of "horror." i think he needs to collaborate with someone.

[Andreas Tanis]

I think his visions have translated very well onto the big screen, and I think H2 is a very much needed continuation. But, then again, maybe I'm biased because with iconic slashers like Myers, I always want to see good continuations, and see what more they can do with the character to further push the character into new depths.

I'm really pumped for H2, and you can bet your candy ass I'll be in the theater on opening day watching and enjoying the movie.

[Monty_Cristo]

I think his visions have translated very well onto the big screen, and I think H2 is a very much needed continuation. But, then again, maybe I'm biased because with iconic slashers like Myers, I always want to see good continuations, and see what more they can do with the character to further push the character into new depths.

I'm really pumped for H2, and you can bet your candy ass I'll be in the theater on opening day watching and enjoying the movie.

but your a retarded agent of chaos. it says so right under your username. :confused:

[Dennis K]

The original Halloween and Halloween 2 were good enough for me.

You really liked the original Halloween II? Wow. That movie has not aged well at all IMO, and was clearly the source for turning the Michael character into a foot-dragging automaton.

[Dennis K]

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s18/maninblack2007/suck-1.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s18/maninblack2007/anniedead.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s18/maninblack2007/laurieknife.jpg

[Dennis K]

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s18/maninblack2007/laurieblood.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s18/maninblack2007/billboard.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s18/maninblack2007/lauriemichael.jpg

[Nate Grey]

You really liked the original Halloween II? Wow. That movie has not aged well at all IMO, and was clearly the source for turning the Michael character into a foot-dragging automaton.

I liked the original Halloween II just fine myself. The only "complaint" is that part 4 shows Dr. Loomis survived an explosion big enough to destroy a hospital floor, with only a burn scar on the side of his face. lol

[Monty_Cristo]

I liked the original Halloween II just fine myself. The only "complaint" is that part 4 shows Dr. Loomis survived an explosion big enough to destroy a hospital floor, with only a burn scar on the side of his face. lol

yeah, that was monty python-silly; s'only a flesh wound. i watched that one this past weekend.

[Indigo Al]

You really liked the original Halloween II? Wow. That movie has not aged well at all IMO, and was clearly the source for turning the Michael character into a foot-dragging automaton.

H2 worked for me as well. Why do you think so?

[Nate Grey]

I like them all. The only one I can do without and never see again in life is part 6. I just pretend at the end of part 5 he realized the whole thing was a ruse to keep him busy and not looking for his sister who's really alive. So he hops in the black Cadillac to go find her. :cool:

[Monty_Cristo]

I like them all. The only one I can do without and never see again in life is part 6. I just pretend at the end of part 5 he realized the whole thing was a ruse to keep him busy and not looking for his sister who's really alive. So he hops in the black Cadillac to go find her. :cool:

is 6 the one where busta rimes kicks his @$$? that one was embarrassing.

[Nate Grey]

is 6 the one where busta rimes kicks his @$$? that one was embarrassing.

No, that was #8 (H20 would technically be #7), and I stand corrected: I like to pretend #6 and #8 didn't happen.

[Legato]

No, that was #8 (H20 would technically be #7), and I stand corrected: I like to pretend #6 and #8 didn't happen.

I pretend that Myers that Busta was beating up was the crazy guy that Myers encountered in the beginning of #8.

Meanwhile Myers is probably retiring in some remote area somewhare or that he is looking for his sister's son.

However part 6 & 5 is dead to me.

[Dennis K]

H2 worked for me as well. Why do you think so?


The biggest problem I have with the original H2 is that they basically turned MM into a foot-dragging zombie. While the character may not have been a sprinter in the original, he was in no way the lead footed drone he was in the second film. I also found how some of the victims in H2 met their demise to be completely lacking in any edge of your seat thrills.

[Monty_Cristo]

The biggest problem I have with the original H2 is that they basically turned MM into a foot-dragging zombie.

he had just survived what would have killed a normal man.

[Dennis K]

he had just survived what would have killed a normal man.


Which is another of the film's fatal flaws. When Carpenter made the original he never had any intention of there being a sequel. The reason he ended the original the way he did was (and I'm paraphrasing here) that you can never really kill evil, it will always exist. JC himself admits that when the time came to write the script for Halloween II he had nothing left to say; everything he could think of he put into the first movie and that he found himself sitting in front of a typewriter with nothing to say and a six-pack of beer to try and help his creative juices start flowing. The major contribution to come out of the original Halloween II is, of course, the revelation that Laurie was Michael's sister, so at least Carpenter found one thing to say of importance.

[Indigo Al]

Which is another of the film's fatal flaws. When Carpenter made the original he never had any intention of there being a sequel. The reason he ended the original the way he did was (and I'm paraphrasing here) that you can never really kill evil, it will always exist. JC himself admits that when the time came to write the script for Halloween II he had nothing left to say; everything he could think of he put into the first movie and that he found himself sitting in front of a typewriter with nothing to say and a six-pack of beer to try and help his creative juices start flowing. The major contribution to come out of the original Halloween II is, of course, the revelation that Laurie was Michael's sister, so at least Carpenter found one thing to say of importance.

I guess he's responsible for that S'amhain speech in H2, then? I may have thought that was thrilling at the time, but it was completely unneeded.

[Dennis K]

I guess he's responsible for that S'amhain speech in H2, then? I may have thought that was thrilling at the time, but it was completely unneeded.


I'm sure he's not proud of it either.

[Monty_Cristo]

Which is another of the film's fatal flaws. When Carpenter made the original he never had any intention of there being a sequel. The reason he ended the original the way he did was (and I'm paraphrasing here) that you can never really kill evil, it will always exist. JC himself admits that when the time came to write the script for Halloween II he had nothing left to say; everything he could think of he put into the first movie and that he found himself sitting in front of a typewriter with nothing to say and a six-pack of beer to try and help his creative juices start flowing.

yeah, but that's what Rob Zombie is doing. he needed a breather after the first one. i don't see it as being a 'fatal flaw' in the original sequel. i consider Halloween 1 & 2 to be the first chapter in a book; one long movie.

[Andreas Tanis]

I don't really find anything wrong with the Halloween franchise as a whole if you exclude HR which sucked ass after the opening sequence, but even HIII was good, it just doesn't include Myer's as a staple character. Other than those two movies, I don't see what's wrong with any of the others.

[Monty_Cristo]

I don't really find anything wrong with the Halloween franchise as a whole if you exclude HR which sucked ass after the opening sequence, but even HIII was good, it just doesn't include Myer's as a staple character. Other than those two movies, I don't see what's wrong with any of the others.

i think they only got the mask "right" in a few of the movies. sometimes it was downright awful. i also didn't like the fat Myers from the Curse of Michael Myers flick.

[Andreas Tanis]

Everybody really should check out the unused H2 trailer. It's too awesome for words:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFH4bVfQT7g

[The Zapper]

Everybody really should check out the unused H2 trailer. It's too awesome for words:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFH4bVfQT7g

It still looks like a horrible movie to me.

[Andreas Tanis]

So, who all is going opening day to see this?

[Legato]

So, who all is going opening day to see this?

Maybe not on opening day but I might check it out. Looks like it may be better than the first one.

[hoffmandu]

So, who all is going opening day to see this?

I will be, that's for sure. I have my reservations about Zombies first outing with the franchise, but one scene (H1) stands out and pulls me back in: when Lori just gets inside the door and Myers appears at the door's window. Sweet IMO.

So yeah, as long as Dourif's still in, I'm fucking in.

[Andreas Tanis]

Of course Dourif's still in, and I believe he has a bigger role than in RZH.

[tjarvis]

I was in until my buddy who saw an advanced screening said it might be the worst horror movie he's seen in years.

Badly written
Badly directed
Badly acted
Full of cliches.

I'm going to sit this one out I think.

[The Zapper]

Badly written
Badly directed
Badly acted
Full of cliches.



So it's like every other Rob Zombie movie.

[Andreas Tanis]

I was in until my buddy who saw an advanced screening said it might be the worst horror movie he's seen in years.

Badly written
Badly directed
Badly acted
Full of cliches.

I'm going to sit this one out I think.

Haha, I doubt your friend saw an advanced screening, everybody always say they did, and to Zapper, why do you keep posting if you're not looking forward to the movie? The smart thing to do would be to avoid the topic altogether.

[Legato]

Haha, I doubt your friend saw an advanced screening, everybody always say they did, and to Zapper, why do you keep posting if you're not looking forward to the movie? The smart thing to do would be to avoid the topic altogether.

Hey people have a right to Hate. Still doesn't change my mind about seeing the movie

[The Zapper]

and to Zapper, why do you keep posting if you're not looking forward to the movie?

Because I can, and because I'm still pissed about how much the first one sucked. In other words, I do what I want.

[Legato]

I was disappointed but I got over it

[anavrin0901]

As soon as I leave work this Friday I am hitting this one up in the theater. It looks a bit weird from the previews but I will give it the benefit of the doubt, write up a little review and share my thoughts here. I loved the first film, except when Myers pushed in Loomis' eyes and then the next time we see him he is fine. What's up with that?

[Legato]

As soon as I leave work this Friday I am hitting this one up in the theater. It looks a bit weird from the previews but I will give it the benefit of the doubt, write up a little review and share my thoughts here. I loved the first film, except when Myers pushed in Loomis' eyes and then the next time we see him he is fine. What's up with that?

Im just waiting on how the hell they are going to explain Myers surviving a bullet to the head. It looked like Laurie had him at point blank range in the ending of the first one

[Monty_Cristo]

Im just waiting on how the hell they are going to explain Myers surviving a bullet to the head. It looked like Laurie had him at point blank range in the ending of the first one

No Prize: they used to make halloween masks out of kevlar?

[Andreas Tanis]

Humans can survive some pretty gnarly stuff, not hard to believe Myers' can survive a gunshot wound to the head even if he's not supernatural.

[xnef1025]

No Prize: they used to make halloween masks out of kevlar?
LOL. Headshots are harder to pull off than the movies make it look. It's possible(though unlikely) for the bullet to hit the curve of the skull in such a way that it caroms off and just leaves a nasty, bloody scalp wound. That's why professionals double tap. Reduces the odds of unlikely down to near impossible.

[Andreas Tanis]

Saw the movie today and loved it...it was great. I like it more than the original, and I think it's the better film of the two. Don't hate me for it, it's just my opinion. But I feel it's the better movie. I thought it had pretty great acting, intense kills, and it was a new addition to the Halloween series. It took the series to the next level if you ask me.

[anavrin0901]

I was looking forward to this film with much anticipation as I loved Zombie's direction on the first one and it is once again being released on the weekend of my Birthday.

How did I like it? I had to put it in writing so here's a link below to read my rants as it is too long to post here (no spoilers):

Brian's Halloween II Monster Bash (http://whysoblu.com/?p=2487)

[Donald M.]

I was looking forward to this film with much anticipation as I loved Zombie's direction on the first one and it is once again being released on the weekend of my Birthday.

How did I like it? I had to put it in writing so here's a link below to read my rants as it is too long to post here (no spoilers):

Brian's Halloween II Monster Bash (http://whysoblu.com/?p=2487)

Also, posting it here would mean missing another chance to pimp your blog.

[anavrin0901]

Also, posting it here would mean missing another chance to pimp your blog.

:(

Wow...I am trying to be really good.

OK...next time I will just post the entire review here for you to see.

Trust me. I am not trying to sell anything here. I just want to debate about reviews and opinions. Next time sir, the entire review will be posted here with no links whatsoever. I promise!

[Legato]

After reading this review I am even more convinced of seeing Inglorious Basterds instead

[tjarvis]

The Final Destination pulled in 3 million dollars more than H2 yesterday. Which is kind of surprising to me. Halloween is a marquis franchise compared to the FD films. Maybe the 3D gimmick helped push it over the top.

[anavrin0901]

The Final Destination pulled in 3 million dollars more than H2 yesterday. Which is kind of surprising to me. Halloween is a marquis franchise compared to the FD films. Maybe the 3D gimmick helped push it over the top.

I would have to agree...I think the 3d gimmick works to FD's benefit.

And to the reader above...I agree...I think your best bet would be the Inglorious B movie...let me know how it is. I heard it is good!

[The Zapper]

The Final Destination pulled in 3 million dollars more than H2 yesterday. Which is kind of surprising to me. Halloween is a marquis franchise compared to the FD films. Maybe the 3D gimmick helped push it over the top.

Or maybe people remember how shitty the last Halloween was and skipped this one. I know I did.

[anavrin0901]

There were some flaws, I admit, but Rob Zombie's first Halloween movie was a total bomb. This new one is though.

[EZMOHR]

IT wasn't bad, it wasn't great. I thought it was alright except for the ending. I was downright convinced that Haywire from Prison Break (for those who don't know the show, he was the guy pestering Loomis at the book signing,) was gonna be Michael Myers in this one. Myers felt off in this one...and it would've been "different" to have the fanboy be Michael Myers (hell, Silas Wier Mitchell is a huge guy in real life too, not Tyler Mane huge....but a freakin big man.) But yeah, Myers didn't feel like Myers in this one, and I convinced myself that it was gonna be Haywire as Michael Myers and that he did indeed die at the end of the first Halloween.

[Legato]

Or maybe people remember how shitty the last Halloween was and skipped this one. I know I did.

Or maybe they just like FD. Otherwise it wouldn't have made four movies. Some people like the FD concept so that has more to do than them seeing it because "Halloween Sucks"

[Andreas Tanis]

Or maybe they just like FD. Otherwise it wouldn't have made four movies. Some people like the FD concept so that has more to do than them seeing it because "Halloween Sucks"

I'd say go see H2 and form your own opinion of it. I did, and I really enjoyed the movie. I'll likely go to see it again next weekend.

[Legato]

I'd say go see H2 and form your own opinion of it. I did, and I really enjoyed the movie. I'll likely go to see it again next weekend.

Someday I might. Nornally I would have said to hell with it and see the movie anyway but I really want to see Inglorious Basterds. Nothing against RZ but QT has a better track record of movies and the word of the mouth concerning his movies is usually well praised.

IMO RZ could make a good horror movie director with some experience under his belt. Just that when it comes to dialogue Im afraid that is the one trait that he falls short on. The first Halloween was kinda hard to sit through because of the dialogue alone. I dont think it would hurt RZ to hire a better script writer for his future films

[Andreas Tanis]

Someday I might. Nornally I would have said to hell with it and see the movie anyway but I really want to see Inglorious Basterds. Nothing against RZ but QT has a better track record of movies and the word of the mouth concerning his movies is usually well praised.

IMO RZ could make a good horror movie director with some experience under his belt. Just that when it comes to dialogue Im afraid that is the one trait that he falls short on. The first Halloween was kinda hard to sit through because of the dialogue alone. I dont think it would hurt RZ to hire a better script writer for his future films

If anything, I'd say check out both. I have no doubts that Inglorious Basterds is a great movie, but I was much more looking forward to H2, and that's why I chose to see that instead of anything else.

But, it's up to you in the end. I thought the movie was a true thrill ride and fun to watch for my first Halloween movie in theaters.

[JohnPopa]

I enjoyed H2 more than I expected, I didn't especially like Zombie's first movie and thought this one looked much worse. Really, though, it chugs along pretty well -- there are a lot of weird and outright silly moments, to be sure, but I thought it was pretty well shot, and the kills were violent without being comically gory. It's not a classic but I enjoyed more of it than I didn't.

[choptop]

I think your best bet would be the Inglorious B movie...let me know how it is. I heard it is good!

sorry to say but its not. :(

[Donald M.]

sorry to say but its not. :(

Happy to say not everyone agrees.

[anavrin0901]

Oh wow...heard such good things about Inglorious B's, but it just did not look appealing to my tastes. I will give it a rent one day.

[Donald M.]

Oh wow...heard such good things about Inglorious B's, but it just did not look appealing to my tastes. I will give it a rent one day.

Yeah, one dude says it's not good. So much for all those people saying otherwise!

[Legato]

Oh wow...heard such good things about Inglorious B's, but it just did not look appealing to my tastes. I will give it a rent one day.

Tarantino's recent films, post-Kill Bill, has been more average lately. His movie Death Proof was boring during the first act but did pick up a bit during the car chase scene.

Still I find Grindhouse to be pretty disappointing for a Tarantino flick. Not bad but I was hoping it would be as memorable as Pulp Fiction or Reservoir Dogs

Im going to see it regardless though

[Nate Grey]

The kills were better and more brutal, and Michael Myers seemed more, well, Jason-esque in the strength department (your mileage may vary but that worked for me). A couple of things bothered me, though:

Michael Myers having the, well, delusion / hallucination of his mother and his younger self was weird but I got used to it. Then Laurie started having them too...okay, kinda stretching it but I can buy it. But when they were having a sort of SHARED delusion / hallucination / whatever, that was pushing it. "Mom" demands "Say you love me" and Myers (real Myers) nudges Laurie as if to make her comply like he heard it too? Hmm. Not sure about that. Were they spirits, or they shared a psychic link, or...? I don't mind things being unknown, but don't bring up NEW questions to leave unanswered when you've been given leeway until that point. Or at least that's how I felt. Not too much of a deal breaker, but still annoying.

Dr. Loomis was so unnecessary and annoying this time around. He was such a greedy bastard that his about face at the end felt...unlikely. Him quietly calling himself an asshole just before he heard of the standoff, what, that was supposed to be enough to make his change of heart believable? It might have been better to let Loomis stay dead from the first movie. The sheriff played by Brad Dourif seemed to fit the role more of original series Loomis. To that end, what purpose, if any, did this version of Loomis serve, if any?

Hated that the hospital massacre was a dream sequence since it was so good. But then again, there was no way for Laurie to otherwise conceivably escape.


I think ultimately I liked part 1 better. This is an interesting closing chapter, though, unless they decide to make a part 3.

[Nate Grey]

Tarantino's recent films, post-Kill Bill, has been more average lately.

Recent films post-Kill Bill? Until Inglorious Bastards, Death Proof was it. He was a "special guest director" on Sin City but not sure how that would count exactly.


His movie Death Proof was boring during the first act but did pick up a bit during the car chase scene.

Still I find Grindhouse to be pretty disappointing for a Tarantino flick. Not bad but I was hoping it would be as memorable as Pulp Fiction or Reservoir Dogs

Okay, it looks like you're using Grindhouse and Death Proof interchangeably.

[Legato]

Recent films post-Kill Bill? Until Inglorious Bastards, Death Proof was it. He was a "special guest director" on Sin City but not sure how that would count exactly.



Okay, it looks like you're using Grindhouse and Death Proof interchangeably.

Sorry:redface: I mean Death Proof mostly

[anavrin0901]

Yeah, one dude says it's not good. So much for all those people saying otherwise!

Wow! I really get cut down to size in here. What I really meant to say was it did not look appealing to me and I was surprised that someone did not like it after all the positive buzz I heard about it. After all, I am probably the one dude who did not like District 9.

[The Zapper]

After all, I am probably the one dude who did not like District 9.

You do realize you're on the internet right?

[Donald M.]

Wow! I really get cut down to size in here. What I really meant to say was it did not look appealing to me and I was surprised that someone did not like it after all the positive buzz I heard about it. After all, I am probably the one dude who did not like District 9.

That makes sense.

An yeah, you aren't the one dude who didn't like District 9.

You might be the one dude who didn't tell everyone else why they shouldn't like District 9.

[Andreas Tanis]

The kills were better and more brutal, and Michael Myers seemed more, well, Jason-esque in the strength department (your mileage may vary but that worked for me). A couple of things bothered me, though:

Michael Myers having the, well, delusion / hallucination of his mother and his younger self was weird but I got used to it. Then Laurie started having them too...okay, kinda stretching it but I can buy it. But when they were having a sort of SHARED delusion / hallucination / whatever, that was pushing it. "Mom" demands "Say you love me" and Myers (real Myers) nudges Laurie as if to make her comply like he heard it too? Hmm. Not sure about that. Were they spirits, or they shared a psychic link, or...? I don't mind things being unknown, but don't bring up NEW questions to leave unanswered when you've been given leeway until that point. Or at least that's how I felt. Not too much of a deal breaker, but still annoying.

Dr. Loomis was so unnecessary and annoying this time around. He was such a greedy bastard that his about face at the end felt...unlikely. Him quietly calling himself an asshole just before he heard of the standoff, what, that was supposed to be enough to make his change of heart believable? It might have been better to let Loomis stay dead from the first movie. The sheriff played by Brad Dourif seemed to fit the role more of original series Loomis. To that end, what purpose, if any, did this version of Loomis serve, if any?

Hated that the hospital massacre was a dream sequence since it was so good. But then again, there was no way for Jamie to otherwise conceivably escape.


I think ultimately I liked part 1 better. This is an interesting closing chapter, though, unless they decide to make a part 3.

You mean Laurie, right? Jamie was her daughter in the previous franchise. And I think they should definitely make a sequel, whether Zombie is attached or not. But he most likely will leave the franchise seeing as he completed his vision. In any case, it'd be great if the same cast were to return, especially Mane, Compton, & Dourif. Would be cool if Dourif's Brackett became this series' Loomis.

[Nate Grey]

You mean Laurie, right?

Ugh. A thousand apologies. Yes, Laurie. Not sure how I made that mistake. :redface: I'll go back and change it.


And I think they should definitely make a sequel, whether Zombie is attached or not. But he most likely will leave the franchise seeing as he completed his vision. In any case, it'd be great if the same cast were to return, especially Mane, Compton, & Dourif. Would be cool if Dourif's Brackett became this series' Loomis.

Brackett seems like he already is. He fits the mold, essentially, of what the original Loomis fit, which makes NuLoomis unnecessary and just annoying. Maybe in part 3 Loomis won't be back (fingers crossed).

As for a part 3, Not sure how Michael could have survived, unless they go the coma route. But I wouldn't be surprised if at the scene when they put the body on the morgue truck Brackett shots a few rounds in Michael's head, just in case.

Or, they could go a different route and have Laurie be the new Michael Myers in a way. She'd mysteriously grow to be 7 feet tall and full of muscle. That's one way to bring Tyler Mane back, though he'd have to wear fake boobs.

[tjarvis]

Well those who want a third movie are in luck:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2009/08/halloween-3d-coming-in-summer-2010.html

[EddieMunster]

Is Mike's father ever brought up or is that Ronnie guy from the first movie supposed to be his dad?

[EddieMunster]

And how did he survive being shot in the face?

[Andreas Tanis]

Ugh. A thousand apologies. Yes, Laurie. Not sure how I made that mistake. :redface: I'll go back and change it.



Brackett seems like he already is. He fits the mold, essentially, of what the original Loomis fit, which makes NuLoomis unnecessary and just annoying. Maybe in part 3 Loomis won't be back (fingers crossed).

As for a part 3, Not sure how Michael could have survived, unless they go the coma route. But I wouldn't be surprised if at the scene when they put the body on the morgue truck Brackett shots a few rounds in Michael's head, just in case.

Or, they could go a different route and have Laurie be the new Michael Myers in a way. She'd mysteriously grow to be 7 feet tall and full of muscle. That's one way to bring Tyler Mane back, though he'd have to wear fake boobs.

I doubt he would do that considering they'd believe he's dead after the stabbing, which he could come back from.

I think that'd be a terrible idea. Laurie should never be the killer, and it wouldn't make sense for her to be Michael's size if she were the killer. Just bring Michael back as the killer and Laurie as the protagonist.

[choptop]

Happy to say not everyone agrees.

no way! not everyone agrees with me!!!!!! news to me. :wink:

[Andreas Tanis]

Have you seen the movie yet?

[choptop]

Have you seen the movie yet?

Halloween 2 no not yet going to see it soon as i can im not a fan of the first 1 but the new one looks good.

[Andreas Tanis]

Cool, I'd definitely recommend going to see it.

[kmeyers]

So I just saw this, and while I disliked it for several reasons the one that stuck out to me the most was remembering what someone in this thread had said before I saw the movie...

Something like "Rob Zombie should have remade Friday the 13th, instead."

Watching Halloween 2, that's exactly what it felt like he was doing. Jason Voorhies is the kid that kills for his mother. This would work more as the back-story for Jason, but it doesn't really work for Michael Myers.

Well, at least not for me.

[Monty_Cristo]

So I just saw this, and while I disliked it for several reasons the one that stuck out to me the most was remembering what someone in this thread had said before I saw the movie...

Something like "Rob Zombie should have remade Friday the 13th, instead."

Watching Halloween 2, that's exactly what it felt like he was doing. Jason Voorhies is the kid that kills for his mother. This would work more as the back-story for Jason, but it doesn't really work for Michael Myers.

Well, at least not for me.

yeah, it would suck @$$ if they did a crossover and they just kept showing Jason and Michael's moms egging them on during the fight. that would be lame as hell. he's the Shape/a methodical killing machine. there shouldn't be much delving into his inner psyche.

[Andreas Tanis]

Considering the visions of his mom were a figment of his imagination, Michael's mom wasn't really egging him on to kill, especially since she's not the type of person to do so. The visions were intended to show how far into insanity Michael has sunk after the gunshot wound to the head.

[kmeyers]

Considering the visions of his mom were a figment of his imagination, Michael's mom wasn't really egging him on to kill, especially since she's not the type of person to do so. The visions were intended to show how far into insanity Michael has sunk after the gunshot wound to the head.

Really?

Ridiculous.

I wanna see Jason vs Michael...MOM'S VERSION!

Im sorry, this was fucking bad.

edit...uh...Jason's mom was dead and a vision(insane voice in his head) The visions were a shitty rip off of Jason and his motivation to kill. Unoriginal garbage.,again.

[Monty_Cristo]

Really?

Ridiculous.

I wanna see Jason vs Michael...MOM'S VERSION!

Im sorry, this was fucking bad.

edit...uh...Jason's mom was dead and a vision(insane voice in his head) The visions were a shitty rip off of Jason and his motivation to kill. Unoriginal garbage.,again.

yeah, it's one thing to have them used for Jason. he's an undead short bus kid. but Meyers shouldn't be looking to mommy for anything. it's all about him needing his wife in the movie as more than random stripper/victim.

[Andreas Tanis]

Again....

She was a figment of his imagination. As in she was never really telling him to do anything, it was all a hallucination perceived in his head.

[kmeyers]

Again....

She was a figment of his imagination. As in she was never really telling him to do anything, it was all a hallucination perceived in his head.

Again...please explain how that's any different from Jason. At all.

[Indigo Al]

Really?

Ridiculous.

I wanna see Jason vs Michael...MOM'S VERSION!

Im sorry, this was fucking bad.

edit...uh...Jason's mom was dead and a vision(insane voice in his head) The visions were a shitty rip off of Jason and his motivation to kill. Unoriginal garbage.,again.

I'm in the process of doing a write up, since I just got back from watching it - but I have to say, the bit with Sherri Moon as a unicorn fairy princess in the woods gave a little visual poetry to an otherwise standard Rob Zombie celebration of sadistic extremes and trailer-trash nihillism.

EDIT: And no, the slasher with mommy issues and visions isn't original, but the execution was a bit of saving grace.

Also, while we're at it, can we throw in Mrs. Loomis from Scream 2 into your Rumble with Mrs. Vorhees and Sheri Moon?

[Andreas Tanis]

Loomis wasn't anything like Courtney Cox's character, if that's what you're implying. What he did is something that a lot of people would've done in real life. Scream didn't start the whole "person involved writes book to profit greatly," reality did.

[Indigo Al]

Loomis wasn't anything like Courtney Cox's character, if that's what you're implying. What he did is something that a lot of people would've done in real life. Scream didn't start the whole "person involved writes book to profit greatly," reality did.

Not what I'm implying - I'm name checking psycho-slasher mom Mrs. Loomis, one of the two killers in Scream 2.

And Malcolm McDowell's Dr. Loomis was a pointless waste of a character.

[Monty_Cristo]

Loomis wasn't anything like Courtney Cox's character, if that's what you're implying. What he did is something that a lot of people would've done in real life. Scream didn't start the whole "person involved writes book to profit greatly," reality did.

freudian slip huh?

[Andreas Tanis]

Not what I'm implying - I'm name checking psycho-slasher mom Mrs. Loomis, one of the two killers in Scream 2.

And Malcolm McDowell's Dr. Loomis was a pointless waste of a character.

I wouldn't say that, but I will say that the character wasn't utilized as greatly as he could've been.

[kmeyers]

I wouldn't say that, but I will say that the character wasn't utilized as greatly as he could've been.

That's an incredible understatement.

[Andreas Tanis]

It may be, but I still enjoyed seeing Loomis in the movie. However, I suspect Dourif's Brackett will take Loomis' place in this franchise.

[kmeyers]

It may be, but I still enjoyed seeing Loomis in the movie. However, I suspect Dourif's Brackett will take Loomis' place in this franchise.
did you work on this move, and profit from it? Because this movie was really that bad.

Rob Zombie should be fired...out of a CANNON INTO THE SUN.

[Legato]

Melodramatic much?

[kmeyers]

Melodramatic much?

no. I just think crappy things suck...even if it will be remade in 3d.

[Andreas Tanis]

I don't have profitted from the movie or worked on it to have enjoyed it. Don't try to throw your opinion around as fact and try to force it on others. Really, don't go there.

[Indigo Al]

Hopefully Rob will give it a rest with Michael Myers......

Now: bring on Halloween III: Children of the Silver Shamrock!!!!!

[Andreas Tanis]

I hope he doesn't give it and a rest and returns, I like that he's adding something new to the franchise and not rehashing what we've already seen, which so many people would've done if they got a hold of the franchise.

[NathanielEssex]

did you work on this move, and profit from it? Because this movie was really that bad.

Rob Zombie should be fired...out of a CANNON INTO THE SUN.

LOL!! That's fuckin awesome.

[Andreas Tanis]

I fail to see how that's "awesome" at all.

How do you all believe the whole Halloween 3D thing will work out? I'm open to it, but I hope it doesn't end up rushed, especially since it's supposed to be out sometime next year.

[hoffmandu]

did you work on this move, and profit from it? Because this movie was really that bad.

Rob Zombie should be fired...out of a CANNON INTO THE SUN.

Did you like the first installment? Are you a Zombie fan at all? The guy made great strides from Corpses to Rejects. I expect the same from H1 to H2.

[Andreas Tanis]

When are you planning on seeing H2?

[kmeyers]

I hope he doesn't give it and a rest and returns, I like that he's adding something new to the franchise and not rehashing what we've already seen, which so many people would've done if they got a hold of the franchise.
Right...it was so awesome that they have to do part 3 in 3D to compete with other terrible movies that beat it in the box office this weekend.

Bad script, bad directing, bad acting, bad dialog? Screw it! Who needs any of that? Just redo it in 3D, and hopefully no one will notice this time!

[kmeyers]

Did you like the first installment? Are you a Zombie fan at all? The guy made great strides from Corpses to Rejects. I expect the same from H1 to H2.

No, I hated his first Halloween for making Michael Myers just a normal serial killer profile case, and the second was even worse and a total Jason Voorhies rip off.

[Indigo Al]

Did you like the first installment? Are you a Zombie fan at all? The guy made great strides from Corpses to Rejects. I expect the same from H1 to H2.

You're absolutely right about Corpses and Rejects, both films which I like. But that style of horror, which works for both those films, really made the Halloween remakes tedious.

The more I think about it though, the more I liked the Michael's mom phantasmagoria - especially that Last Supper scene.

[Andreas Tanis]

Honestly, I think the reason why a lot of people didn't like RZH was because of the fact that there was too much going on, in a way. Rob Zombie himself has said he originally wanted the entire movie to focus on Michael's childhood but the studio wanted it to be more Carpenter esque and thus, it felt like two movies jammed into one. While I loved the movie and it's one of my favorite horror movies to date, it could've been better.

As for Michael's mom being in H2, believe it or not, I absolutely loathed and hated this idea when it was first rumored and then shown in the trailer. I was pissed Sherri was returning, but I warmed up to the idea overtime, and I think it turned out great. She did a great job, and she reinforced my belief that her acting is just steadily improving overtime.

[choptop]

Cool, I'd definitely recommend going to see it.

ok just saw it.......................it wus ok not as bad as the first but what wus up with the Ghost? and the ending?

[Fatguy]

Well, I got around to seeing this, and I thought it was terrible. The use of shaky kill cam and extreme close ups during the "action" made me want to throw things at the screen. You couldn't even tell what the hell was going on half the time. It was just a muddled mess.

The one saving grace was Dourif, who I thought was great. I enjoyed him AND his character. Its just a shame he's trapped in this terrible movie.

[Legato]

Well I finally saw it. The trailers I saw of the movie got me interested in seeing it. The highlight of the film trailer was Myers killing people in the hospital just to get to Laurie.

Imagine my disappointment when actually seeing that scene it just ends up being nothing but a dream. I honestly dont get the situation with the ghost either. Myers is a psychotic bastard but he doesn't need a ghostly image of a woman to guide him.

The situation of Laurie slowly going insane would have been good but I wasn't too fond of how it got executed on screen.

This movie is just proof that Rob Zombie should never write a script, as a script writer he is pretty horrible. He could make a decent director with a few years of experience but if Rob Zombie ever does another Halloween movie then he should have someone else write the script, someone that is actually good

Now Im not hating Rob Zombie here. I actually felt that Devil's Rejects was a huge improvement over House of 1,000 Corpses and I was hoping that Halloween II would be like Devil's Rejects that it became a improvement over the first movie. I was wrong

I do like Scout Taylor-Compton as Laurie more than Jamie Lee Curtis. I felt that she actually brought some character into Laurie, gave Laurie a more define personality. While Curtis from the first Halloween movie was just plain wooden IMO. She developed better in H2O though

[Andreas Tanis]

The purpose of the visions was to show how messed up he was from the bullet, and like all villains, they have something that, to them, justifies their killing, and for Michael it happened to be his mom guiding him, even though she was never really there.

For me, I loved both movies, but this one was a big step up over the first, and I feel like it's the best of the entire series of Halloween movies. As for Laurie, I definitely agree. In the original first two she was a boring character. In Rob Zombie's movies, she's like a real girl and we actually see the effects of the first movie weighing down on her.

[4thHorseman]

I honestly don't know how I felt about the movie. The killings were ruthless, and I liked that. The hospital scene was pretty predictable in terms of it being a dream (I'm getting tired of seeing this stuff in movies...), and I felt there was a mix of Halloween 5 or 6 in there with Laurie seeing things Michael sees. Another psychic connection between the two (though...it was between Michael and his niece right?).

I think my biggest complaint might actually be with the movie theater, but it may be the movie in general. Too dark. It was hard to tell what the hell was going on because I couldn't see it half the time. And let's not even talk about the strip club murder. Even if I could see it, it was shot so chaotically I wouldn't have been able to enjoy it.

[Monty_Cristo]

The purpose of the visions was to show how messed up he was from the bullet, and like all villains, they have something that, to them, justifies their killing, and for Michael it happened to be his mom guiding him, even though she was never really there.

For me, I loved both movies, but this one was a big step up over the first, and I feel like it's the best of the entire series of Halloween movies. As for Laurie, I definitely agree. In the original first two she was a boring character. In Rob Zombie's movies, she's like a real girl and we actually see the effects of the first movie weighing down on her.

doesn't sound half as strong as Laurie's showing in Halloween H20. what you're describing is a ripoff of the stuff done with Jamie. right?


Honestly, I think the reason why a lot of people didn't like RZH was because of the fact that there was too much going on, in a way. Rob Zombie himself has said he originally wanted the entire movie to focus on Michael's childhood

and that seriously sounds like a good idea to you?

[Monty_Cristo]

Well I finally saw it. The trailers I saw of the movie got me interested in seeing it. The highlight of the film trailer was Myers killing people in the hospital just to get to Laurie.

Imagine my disappointment when actually seeing that scene it just ends up being nothing but a dream. I honestly dont get the situation with the ghost either. Myers is a psychotic bastard but he doesn't need a ghostly image of a woman to guide him.

The situation of Laurie slowly going insane would have been good but I wasn't too fond of how it got executed on screen.

This movie is just proof that Rob Zombie should never write a script, as a script writer he is pretty horrible. He could make a decent director with a few years of experience but if Rob Zombie ever does another Halloween movie then he should have someone else write the script, someone that is actually good

Now Im not hating Rob Zombie here. I actually felt that Devil's Rejects was a huge improvement over House of 1,000 Corpses and I was hoping that Halloween II would be like Devil's Rejects that it became a improvement over the first movie. I was wrong

I do like Scout Taylor-Compton as Laurie more than Jamie Lee Curtis. I felt that she actually brought some character into Laurie, gave Laurie a more define personality. While Curtis from the first Halloween movie was just plain wooden IMO. She developed better in H2O though

Devil's Rejects was fun and huge leap up from his House of 1,000 Corpses debut, imo. but, in a way, they were two different genres. House was a slasher flick. Devil's Rejects was like a, for lack of a better description, modern western; bad guys on the run from the law. i'm curious to see what an actual Rob Zombie western would be like. people expect horror from him because he's got "Zombie" in his name. but i don't think he's all that great at horror; at least the suspense part of it.

[Monty_Cristo]

Well, I got around to seeing this, and I thought it was terrible. The use of shaky kill cam and extreme close ups during the "action" made me want to throw things at the screen. You couldn't even tell what the hell was going on half the time. It was just a muddled mess.

The one saving grace was Dourif, who I thought was great. I enjoyed him AND his character. Its just a shame he's trapped in this terrible movie.

Dourif's just a great character actor. his performances have stood out positively in some really crappy movies i.e. Graveyard Shift. i can remember his rant about traitorous rats in Vietnam, vividly.

[Andreas Tanis]

doesn't sound half as strong as Laurie's showing in Halloween H20. what you're describing is a ripoff of the stuff done with Jamie. right?



and that seriously sounds like a good idea to you?

No, not necessarily, because it was done in a different way and if there was a psychic link it wasn't as strong as the one between Jamie & Michael.

It could've been, so I'd have to say that yes, it does sound like it could've been a good idea.

[kmeyers]

No, not necessarily, because it was done in a different way and if there was a psychic link it wasn't as strong as the one between Jamie & Michael.

It could've been, so I'd have to say that yes, it does sound like it could've been a good idea.
You are totally reaching..but ok.

[Legato]

I got the vibe that Zombie was borrowing plots from Halloween Four and possibly Five.

Like Laurie from RZH slowly going mad till the ending hinted that she could end up like Myers. Just like when Jamie was going mad then the ending of Halloween Four showed that Jamie was going to continue Myers's Legacy.

Also the psychic connection thing was definitly directly from Halloween 5.

This makes one wonder if Laurie could fight it or will she end up exactly like Myers and go on a killing spree herself. I remember this idea happened in a Halloween comic long ago. The ending of the comic had revealed that Laurie became some kind of copycat killer like her brother so I wonder if thats the vision that Zombie wanted for Laurie

This brings me back to my statement that the idea sounds interesting on paper but one has to excecute the idea really well to make the people buy into the storyline.

[Legato]

Devil's Rejects was fun and huge leap up from his House of 1,000 Corpses debut, imo. but, in a way, they were two different genres. House was a slasher flick. Devil's Rejects was like a, for lack of a better description, modern western; bad guys on the run from the law. i'm curious to see what an actual Rob Zombie western would be like. people expect horror from him because he's got "Zombie" in his name. but i don't think he's all that great at horror; at least the suspense part of it.

I could see Zombie doing crime movies. Devil's Rejects was considered as such more than 1,000 Corpses. Zombie is great when he is doing his own work but doing stuff like Halloween well it's understandable that he wont get that much praise. People are expecting him to fail on the possible remake of The Blob when rumors got out that he is interested in remaking it. The Blob was an average movie at best, not as good as Carpenter's Halloween. Now I did happen to like the 80's remake of The Blob.

I'd go see a western movie made by Rob myself. I know he could make his version of a western pretty damn gritty

[Andreas Tanis]

Rob himself said the intetion was to show Laurie dealing with the effects of what happened rather than appearing to be totally fine. He never intended for the storyline to go down a path where Laurie would become the killer, and this all came from him.

Also, how am I reaching? Because I have a different opinion than you? I don't recall saying anyone is reaching for not liking RZH or H2, so don't go down that route. Try to be mature about it, kmeyers.

[Monty_Cristo]

Rob himself said the intetion was to show Laurie dealing with the effects of what happened rather than appearing to be totally fine.

Halloween H20 did this. and, truthfully, Laurie didn't seem all that "ok" in Halloween 2.

[Legato]

Halloween H20 did this. and, truthfully, Laurie didn't seem all that "ok" in Halloween 2.

Laurie went waaaay off the deep end in Resurrection. Or as I would call the actual ending of H2O. Post Laurie's death I ignore completly

[Monty_Cristo]

Laurie went waaaay off the deep end in Resurrection. Or as I would call the actual ending of H2O. Post Laurie's death I ignore completly

yeah, i always overlook that one because of the ending. but he did track her down in the loony bin.

[Andreas Tanis]

Laurie in H20 didn't seem that okay, but I think Rob dealt with the effects better, though Jamie was pretty awesome in H20 & the beginning of the shitfest known as HR. All in all, I just prefer Scout's interpretation of the character.

[Monty_Cristo]

Laurie in H20 didn't seem that okay, but I think Rob dealt with the effects better, though Jamie was pretty awesome in H20 & the beginning of the shitfest known as HR. All in all, I just prefer Scout's interpretation of the character.

fair enough. but i don't think she can hold a candle to Jamie Lee Curtis. talking about scream queens, i doubt many are going to remember Scout. most people recognize Jamie Lee Curtis as that actress from Prom Night or Halloween (or True Lies). Scout gave a real non-performance in that other horror movie 'Wicked Things.'

[Legato]

fair enough. but i don't think she can hold a candle to Jamie Lee Curtis. talking about scream queens, i doubt many are going to remember Scout. most people recognize Jamie Lee Curtis as that actress from Prom Night or Halloween (or True Lies). Scout gave a real non-performance in that other horror movie 'Wicked Things.'

Definitly True Lies, if anything for the strip tease scene.

I doubt Scout's career would take off in the same manner that Jamie Lee Curtis's career did. Personally I hope something good would come out of Danielle Harris's career. She is a underrated actress IMO

[Monty_Cristo]

Definitly True Lies, if anything for the strip tease scene.

I doubt Scout's career would take off in the same manner that Jamie Lee Curtis's career did. Personally I hope something good would come out of Danielle Harris's career. She is a underrated actress IMO

yeah, she's suprisingly good for a child actress. i thought Halloween would have been it for her. she's wise to keep it to small parts, though i.e. Urban Legend.

[Andreas Tanis]

I woudn't say Scout's career won't take off, but I do think at this juncture JLC is the better actress, but still didn't have the better Laurie. I actually think Scout showed some acting chops in H2 (which I thought she wouldn't) and if she keeps on the right path she could have a great career ahead of her.

As for Danielle Harris, I'm pretty sure the only thing that halted her career was the fact that she had a stalker and she was kind of scared to do anything because of how he'd randomly resurface and stalk her, but now that the whole ordeal is over, I expect her to have a good career.

[Fatguy]

I think my biggest complaint might actually be with the movie theater, but it may be the movie in general. Too dark. It was hard to tell what the hell was going on because I couldn't see it half the time. And let's not even talk about the strip club murder. Even if I could see it, it was shot so chaotically I wouldn't have been able to enjoy it.

Yeah, I had the EXACT same problem. I wondered if it was the theater too. I mean, I know the movie was shot kind of muted and dark, but my viewing was extra dark. But maybe it WAS just the movie. if so, what an awful choice. That strip club scene may as well have been blank reel.

But I agree. Even if I could see it, it was so shaky that I would have been annoyed anyways. Its like they had seizing epileptics as cameramen.


Dourif's just a great character actor. his performances have stood out positively in some really crappy movies i.e. Graveyard Shift. i can remember his rant about traitorous rats in Vietnam, vividly.

lol yeah. Its crazy how different he is in everything, which is definitely the mark of a great character actor.


Definitly True Lies, if anything for the strip tease scene.

I doubt Scout's career would take off in the same manner that Jamie Lee Curtis's career did. Personally I hope something good would come out of Danielle Harris's career. She is a underrated actress IMO

I thought Danielle Harris was good in both of Rob's movies. Even as a kid, I thought she did well. I wouldn't mind seeing her getting more work. I thought Scout was just ok.

[Andreas Tanis]

Saw the movie for the second time yesterday with my bro, and loved it even more.

[tjarvis]

So I theatre hopped into the movie yesterday, no way in hell I was going to pay for it after what I had heard, and yeah, it was that bad.

Which is a shame, because I wanted to like it. I don't go watch a movie expecting to hate it.

The movie started off okay, not great, but not horrible. Michael seeing visions of his dead mother was horribly deriverative of Jason Vorhees (who was a rip off of Michael, how's that for irony), but I could deal with it.

The second half of the film falls apart. First off, the dialogue is just painful. Not every character has to speak like a horny sailer on a bender. It's called character type, and they should really try to create more than one.

Right around the time Laurie started sharing visions with Michael I through up my hands in disgust. The movie just violated its own internal logic. I'm not sure what Zombie was going for there. Is he hinting at something supernatural like a psychic connection? Doesn't work. The whole point of the first movie was to strip Michael of his supernatural connection and create the psychology behind the character. So it makes no sense to hint at it now. Or maybe Rob was trying to say that insanity was genetic marker in the Myers family. If that was the case, then why didn't Mom or older sister show any signs of it in the first film? Again, there's no consistent internal logic.

And can someone tell me what the hell the point of Loomis was in this movie? He did nothing to advance the story other than let Laurie know she was Myers sister. Talk about a waste of a good actor.

I know that last shot was supposed to be creepy, with Laurie and her mom, but the entire theatre just started laughing when they saw it. How does she even remember what her mom looks like?

I'll try to end on a positive note. I think Danielle Harris does a very good job with what little she's given to do. I kind of wish the movie would have focused on Annie to be honest.

And, as others have said, Brad Douriff does a great job in the movie. He really is a gifted character actor.

[Andreas Tanis]

Meh, considering you didn't even pay to see the movie, I don't give a damn about your opinion. I don't care if you love or hate the movie, but I respect anyone's opinion who didn't bootleg or "theater hop" to see the movie.

[tjarvis]

Meh, considering you didn't even pay to see the movie, I don't give a damn about your opinion. I don't care if you love or hate the movie, but I respect anyone's opinion who didn't bootleg or "theater hop" to see the movie.

Fair enough. You were kind of pre-disposed to enjoy the film, so it's a rather mutual feeling. I honestly don't feel like it's a film worth the average movie goers money.

[Andreas Tanis]

I think it is, so we have differing opinions, but whether or not you think it's worth other people's money, that doesn't mean you should bootleg or "theater hop". I think the new Final Destination looks like a crappy movie, but if I decided to watch it, it'd be on DVD or something. I'm not going to cheat people out of money, even if it's a film I may not care for. I'll pay real money, and see it, and then see what my opinion is afterwards.

[Nate Grey]

Fair enough. You were kind of pre-disposed to enjoy the film, so it's a rather mutual feeling.

Um, I wanted to like the movie and was downright disappointed in it and still agree with Andreas Tanis. If you think its gonna be crap don't see it or wait till it comes on cable 4 years from now, don't bootleg it/theater hop. What kind of crap is that?


I honestly don't feel like it's a film worth the average movie goers money.

Who made you the spokesperson for average movie goers? I'm an average movie goer and you don't speak for me.

[Andreas Tanis]

It's just that; crap. I hate people who do that, even if they do it on a movie I absolutely loathed.

And I love when people speak for the average movie goer. It's like they instantly know what's going on inside everyone's mind.

[Indigo Al]

Yikes, no no no --- unfortunately, Scout's Laurie Strode just came across as a one-note, shrilly, stringy-haired unwashed meth-addict (the entire cast looked like gross meth addicts) who was .... so traumatized by her first encounter with Michael Myers that she sleeps under a poster of Charles Manson? The build up towards her discovery that she's Michael's brother was completely flat and uneffective, further killing any sense of drama whatsoever. She was a horror victim that I could not feel for even in the slightest, unlike Jamie Lee Curtis's Laurie, or any other number of beleaguered babysitters from Nightmare on Elm Street all the way down to Scream.

Andreas - please remember, this is no attack on you or your opinions. Believe it or not, I found things to like in the movie too.

[Fatguy]

Who made you the spokesperson for average movie goers? I'm an average movie goer and you don't speak for me.

Oh jeez, oversensitive much?

[Andreas Tanis]

Not oversensitive, there's always someone who seems to think they can speak for everyone.

And Indigo, I definitely don't take that as an attack on my opinions. No harm done.

[jesse_custer]

Meh, considering you didn't even pay to see the movie, I don't give a damn about your opinion. I don't care if you love or hate the movie, but I respect anyone's opinion who didn't bootleg or "theater hop" to see the movie.

So you would respect a misinformed, factually incorrect opinion over an articulate, accurate one, provided that the latter was produced by a person who theater hopped?

That's pretty silly.

[Monty_Cristo]

i only speak for people with good taste. :biggrin:

[anavrin0901]

I am just curious what happened to Michael at the end of 2 now? And how did he survive the end of 1?

[Fatguy]

Not oversensitive, there's always someone who seems to think they can speak for everyone.

You really think that "I honestly don't feel like it's a film worth the average movie goers money. " is him speaking for everyone? It's his opinion.

And he's totally right. It was NOT worth the money. At all.

[Dennis K]

While I found some truly remarkable moments in the film, overall it was disappointing. Way too much SZ, horse, completely unlikable Loomis, unlikable Laurie, the new young Michael.


I'm hoping Halloween 3D will be more satisfying overall.

[Andreas Tanis]

H2 will be re-released in theaters for Halloween. Here is the official TV spot for the re-release:

http://www.shocktillyoudrop.com/news...s.php?id=12424