Kings

[mr.brighteyes]

The episode starts with the inauguration/dedication of the new capitol city of the Kingdom of Shilo. King Silas Benjamin speaks from the heart as he tells of his love of God and the great vision that lead to the building of Shilo.

Meanwhile on a small farm Jessie Shepherd and her sons watch the dedication of the new capitol. All except David who is too busy helping Reverend Samuel with his broken down car. Thanking him for the effort Samuel wipes some oil off David's forehead and then gives him his broken watch in payment for fixing the car telling David that if he can fix it, he deserves it. The watch has the seal of the Kingdom on the back.

Two years later David and his brothers are in the Kings army on the front lines staring down the barrel of Gath's Goliath tanks. A transport gets attacked and prisoners are taken. One of them is Jack Benjamin the King's son and David disobeys orders to rescue the two hostages not knowing one of them is the King's son. In doing so David accomplishes what was thought impossible, stands up as one man and survives an attack from a Goliath and he also destroys said Goliath. In doing so David wins the thanks of a grateful King.

[the_coldest_sun]

Are you summarizing the first episode during commercial breaks? Why even bother? I can understand summarizing the overall show to get the thread started but this is just awkward to me somehow. Especially since the episode isn't even over yet.

Seems like you have some kinda thread quota.

[mr.brighteyes]

It seems in the two years that have past Silas has stopped relying on the advise of Reverend Samuel and has grown cold towards the needs of his people. Including disregarding their health care something his daughter Michelle doesn't care for.

Jack on the other hand could care less about the people unless they are girls. He appears to be the typical rich brat like Lex Luthor from Smallville or Chuck Bass from Gossip Girl.

David is a fish out of water when he is brought to the capitol for his thank you dinner.

I'm sure most of you know the story even if you didn't go to church as a small child.

A King falls out of favor with his God and so God sends his servant Samuel to the farm of Jessie in order for him to anoint a new King. Jessie brings all his sons before Samuel except for David the shepherd who is out tending his fathers flock. When God doesn't indicate any of the young men Jessie calls forth David from the fields and Samuel anoints David at the Lords request.

Later when the army is facing taunts and demands from the Giant Goliath, Philistine's greatest soldier. Visiting the front lines to bring his brothers some food David hears the challenge and decides to face it. Denying the Kings armor which is much to big for him David instead faces Goliath with a sling shot and five small stones. It turns out that David only needs one to fell the giant and after words David cuts off the mans head and parades it around on a pike in a display of his victory.

It seems that the producers are willing to stray from the source material in order to tell a better story. For instance David and Jack Benjamin seem to be destined to be enemies despite the fact that the Bible considers them more than brothers. They had what we would now call a bromance.

David plays a Grand Piano instead of a harp and fixes cars instead of tends sheep.

David and Saul will most certainly be at odds by the time the first two episodes are over however so at least we know that story element will remain intact.

Also an interesting addition to the cast of characters includes Silas's wife/the mother of his children. With no reference to her in the bible she will be the one character who has unlimited potential.

Well isn't interesting. Jack Benjamin enjoys an alternative life style and it looks like Silas has an illegitimate son. Maybe he will be the Benjamin from the Bible.

[mr.brighteyes]

Wow great first episode. The writing was really solid and the network isn't going to shy away from God and religion which I wholeheartedly approve of.

An interesting fact when David was telling his story to his brother about how he dropped his gun and surrendered before the tank blew up in front of his eyes it is remarkably similar to what happened in the bible. When David was present at the battlefield and Goliath made his challenge all the soldiers ran. Including David.

I am really looking forward to where this series might go.

[the_coldest_sun]

It seems that the producers are willing to stray from the source material in order to tell a better story. For instance David and Jack Benjamin seem to be destined to be enemies despite the fact that the Bible considers them more than brothers. They had what we would now call a bromance.

Based on the the promo showing the upcoming season, it appears they will play with this idea. I say "play" because it appears Jack will befriend David in an attempt to sabotage his image or get in his pants. :wink:

Wow great first episode. The writing was really solid and the network isn't going to shy away from God and religion which I wholeheartedly approve of.

Agreed 100%.


I am really looking forward to where this series might go.

Ditto. :smile:

[Jmacq1]

I am really looking forward to where this series might go.

Probably straight into the "cancellation" bin, followed shortly after by a "Kings: The Complete Series" DVD set.

I'm not knocking the quality of the show, and I'd watch Ian McShane in just about anything, but this show looks like it's trying to do too much and be simultaneously "everything you've seen before" and "nothing you've seen before" all rolled into one.

It's interesting, but I'm betting it's too "high concept" for most audiences. That, and it's on NBC, which to my knowledge is sucking wind in the ratings game anyhow.

[Mia]

It's interesting, but I'm betting it's too "high concept" for most audiences. That, and it's on NBC, which to my knowledge is sucking wind in the ratings game anyhow.

When I saw this thread I thought that it was joke. They are actually making a speculative fiction/alternate reality show based on a contemporary telling of the story of the David from the Bible. I would have thought that it would be too 'politically incorrect' for TV. However from what I saw on the net it sounds interesting.

But I suspect that you're right right about it not lasting past the first season. It looks too sophisticated for general audiences.



Well isn't interesting. Jack Benjamin enjoys an alternative life style and it looks like Silas has an illegitimate son. Maybe he will be the Benjamin from the Bible.

Well now we know how they are going to handle the Jonathan/David relationship.

[mr.brighteyes]

When I saw this thread I thought that it was joke. They are actually making a speculative fiction/alternate reality show based on a contemporary telling of the story of the David from the Bible. I would have thought that it would be too 'politically incorrect' for TV. However from what I saw on the net it sounds interesting.

But I suspect that you're right right about it not lasting past the first season. It looks too sophisticated for general audiences.



Well now we know how they are going to handle the Jonathan/David relationship.

Man I really am an idiot or at least I was off my game last night. First I thought the briefly mentioned Abner was the Husband of Bathsheba (David's future mistress) and I was wrong about that and for some reason I was mistaking confusing Benjamin (the youngest son of Jacob) with Jonathan the son of Saul.

And I have no problem with Jack being portrayed as a homosexual as long as they make the other kid Jonathan from the bible and have his relationship with David like that portrayed in the bible.

[Frank]

I thought the first show was tremendous as well as all the actors involved. I could watch Ian McShane reading the phone book and still be entertained. I also liked the possible involvement of the supernatural.

One problem I have is that I think they should have put this show alongside Heroes on Mondays. It's more the target demographic than freakin Medium.

[Ontir]

I think you're right. A Kings, Heroes, Medium line-up could be a winner.
The main challenge for the show, is that some are uneasy about using a Bible story as a a basis for a prime-time soap. After that there's the basic idea that this takes place on an Earth with completely different countries, but it still has Franz Liszt. Usually if you see a set-up like this, the characters are living on a Battlestar or something. Some may have a harder time wrapping their brains around the alt.earth idea.

I thought the show worked, and really like the cast. I expect Susannah Thompson will turn out to be more Catherine De Medici than Jackie Kennedy. Eamonn Walker is always tremendous, and he's more than capable of standing up to the King. Dylan Baker is always a wonderful SOB, and I think this show will give him a chance to really shine.

[Toonimator]

After that there's the basic idea that this takes place on an Earth with completely different countries, but it still has Franz Liszt. Usually if you see a set-up like this, the characters are living on a Battlestar or something. Some may have a harder time wrapping their brains around the alt.earth idea.
I didn't get all the Biblical David parallels at first (especially not from the ads for the show, which seemed to pimp it as "What if the United States had a king?"), but popped onto this thread during the commercials and went "Oh, ok...". So I was pretty lost: "Golbia? Gath? If this is supposed to be some weird fractured USA, who the hell chose those names? Renaming New York "Shiloh" after being rebuilt? Nobody in American society of the last century would do that... or, at least, they wouldn't win public support of 'em."

So that put the history bug in me, wanting to know the backstory of these nations, the Unification Wars, and where their history diverged from ours basically, and if there HAD been an actual "United States" (or even a Bible) somewhere in the past. That'll probably wind up hampering my enjoyment of the series, though. Yet with Galactica, I just accepted that a spacefaring civilization with faster-than-light travel basically looked just like ours, for day-to-day stuff had no more advanced tech than we do, had names like Bill and Sam, and the only really quirky things about 'em were that they cut the corners off all their papers and frames, and the military wore tank tops over muscle shirts under their uniforms. :tongue:

[mr.brighteyes]

I didn't get all the Biblical David parallels at first (especially not from the ads for the show, which seemed to pimp it as "What if the United States had a king?"), but popped onto this thread during the commercials and went "Oh, ok...". So I was pretty lost: "Golbia? Gath? If this is supposed to be some weird fractured USA, who the hell chose those names? Renaming New York "Shiloh" after being rebuilt? Nobody in American society of the last century would do that... or, at least, they wouldn't win public support of 'em."

So that put the history bug in me, wanting to know the backstory of these nations, the Unification Wars, and where their history diverged from ours basically, and if there HAD been an actual "United States" (or even a Bible) somewhere in the past. That'll probably wind up hampering my enjoyment of the series, though. Yet with Galactica, I just accepted that a spacefaring civilization with faster-than-light travel basically looked just like ours, for day-to-day stuff had no more advanced tech than we do, had names like Bill and Sam, and the only really quirky things about 'em were that they cut the corners off all their papers and frames, and the military wore tank tops over muscle shirts under their uniforms. :tongue:


Gilboa, Gath and Shiloh were names from the Bible plus Gilboa is a town in Schoharie County, New York, United States

Gath http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gath_(city)

Shiloh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiloh_(Biblical_city)




BTW
The March 15th, 2009 NBC premiere of Kings "was the lowest-rated program between 8 and 11 p.m. on a major broadcast network", garnering a 1.6 rating/4 share, below ABC, CBS, and Fox. [15]. This was significantly lower than the ratings for NBC's programming on the previous Sunday, a Saturday Night Live clip show and a segment of Celebrity Apprentice [16]. MediaWeek magazine noted that "one year earlier in this block, the second half of a two-hour edition of Dateline and a repeat of Law & Order was considerably stronger at an average 6.3/10 in the overnights." [17] TV.com speculated that NBC underpromoted the show causing the lackluster pilot episode rating [18]. However, TVWeek described (in detailed interviews with NBC executives) an innovative three-phase marketing push on behalf of "Kings", and stated that NBC was "going out of its way since November to market 'Kings' to so-called cultural tastemakers, hoping they’ll help spread the word to the masses." [19]

[Toonimator]

Gilboa, Gath and Shiloh were names from the Bible plus Gilboa is a town in Schoharie County, New York, United States
Thanks, I kinda figured out they were Biblical names before the show was over. Remember, I popped onto this thread where you summarized the Biblical story while the show was still on for me :)

Gilboa as a town name doesn't surprise me, but choosing it as the name of your nation just seems a little weird to me. Of course, it's probably due to being brought up with OUR history and names and all that stuff... in my mind, if the US fractured and became several different nations, most would probably adopt variations of their former state names, or capitals, or perhaps old Native American names.

Of course, there's no real evidence that there ever was a "USA" in the world of Kings. North America could've remained a series of colonies for a long while, and while American accents would've carried on they'd still be British/French/Spanish subjects, and history of the last couple hundred years at least would be greatly altered, which could easily lead to new nations forming under various systems of government including kingships, and moreover religiously-backed kingships like in the past, and could include Biblical names.

If such a thing happened in reality, you'd think Silas would be more aware of the story and not follow the same path of Saul (seeing David as a rival rather than a friend and son-in-law/heir). If Jack's unfit for whatever reason and Silas wants David to fulfill his butterfly-blessed destiny, all he has to do is make sure David and Michelle hook up, and make Michelle queen with David as the king. But that'd be too easy, he's gonna jealously guard his power even though David's not after it and probably wouldn't even know what to do with even a bit of it (well, besides publicly support health care reform)

[Jared]

There probalby was no U.S. An article about the show in Time says that democracy never developed in this world.

I haven't seen it yet, I'll have to check it out on Hulu. I don't expect it to last, either. It seems like a concept that would only work on cable.

I didn't see a whole lot of advertising for it, and much of what I did gave me the wrong impression. For months, I thought the show as about Ian McSchane playing some sort of businessman. It's only in recent weeks that I realized he was a literal king.

[the_coldest_sun]

I do agree it was marketed pretty badly. I only learned of it after someone posted a clip of it here on this messegeboard asking what this show was called. I watched the clip and saw Ian McShane. He alone was enough to get me to watch. Then I read more about the concept of a modern David & Goliath, and I was more interested. Aside from maybe 1 or 2 commercials (not that I watch a lot of TV, and only Heroes in NBC), I didn't really hear much else about it.

[titanfan]

I accidently turned to this show expecting Celebrity Apprentice. After watching (mostly going "WTF"_ for 30 minutes, I still had no idea what it was about and had to go online to figure it out. (NBC's King's website isn't very helpful)

I am honestly offended by this show's *existence*. How can a show with Ian McShane be so bad? This is one of the worst things I've ever seen on TV and is really indicative of why NBC is doing so poorly in the ratings.

[noh-varr]

I really don't know what I think about this show. I love Ian McShane, and really most of his scenes were strong just on his presence. But the rest, I don't know. I felt David himself was pretty meh, and would be content with just offing him and focusing on Gilboa's political system instead. It premiering in last place though means it won't last, which is really what I thought, so I will just enjoy McShane while I can and hope the next thing he's involved with has an actual run and the rest of the show pulls me in.

[Kirayoshi]

I came in about halfway through this show. Was unaware of its existence(way to go, NBC marketers), and only stopped in mid-channelhopping because I saw Ian McShane. Found the show interesting and maybe worth a second look, but the religious symbolism was laid on with a trowel. Seriously;

A flock of butterflies landing in a ring on David's head, resembling a crown?

[Chandler Bing]Could you BE any more obvious?[/Chandler Bing]

[the_coldest_sun]

I came in about halfway through this show. Was unaware of its existence(way to go, NBC marketers), and only stopped in mid-channelhopping because I saw Ian McShane. Found the show interesting and maybe worth a second look, but the religious symbolism was laid on with a trowel. Seriously;

A flock of butterflies landing in a ring on David's head, resembling a crown?

[Chandler Bing]Could you BE any more obvious?[/Chandler Bing]

The butterfly thing was pretty important to show because at least twice in the first half of the show (which you missed) the King would start his speeches talking about how this exact thing happened to him and how he knew God had chosen him to rule. It was important to show it happening to David now that King Silas was turning his back on God and the people. It was also important to show King Silas witnessing the event happening to David because he knew exactly what it meant. I loved Ian's expression when he realized what was happening even if David didn't.

[Nate Grey]

I liked it. And let me join in the chorus of others saying the best thing about it is Ian McShane. He's essentially a king who's time is over (the preacher actually told him this verbatim). His slow fall from grace is what will keep me watching.

I like the lead, but he's so...naive to the point that I don't get how he hasn't killed himself accidentally by now. True, I did miss the first 30 minutes, so maybe that explains it.

Also nice to see Wes Studi again.

I honestly don't see this lasting however long NBC thinks/hopes it'll last. It would make a better maxi series, I think, but something that could last five seasons (or even two), I doubted.

[joemagnum611]

I just watched this and thought that it was pretty good. I hope that NBC and the fans give it a chance. Ian McShane is great and I like the whole David vs Goliath vibe it had to it. I don't know the guy's name that plays David but the more I watched him the more I got a vibe that I was seeing Our next Captain America. He has a nice look kinda like Matt Damon and I think that you need a little known actor to play Cap and I think he at least has the look.

[malephoenix]

It's interesting, but I'm betting it's too "high concept" for most audiences.

But I suspect that you're right right about it not lasting past the first season. It looks too sophisticated for general audiences.

Double Quoth for Truth.

I'm enjoying it. And it will probably be cancelled, because of the above reasons.




An interesting fact when David was telling his story to his brother about how he dropped his gun and surrendered before the tank blew up in front of his eyes it is remarkably similar to what happened in the bible. When David was present at the battlefield and Goliath made his challenge all the soldiers ran. Including David.

I'm not sure where exactly you're getting this idea, but in the Biblical Account, David didn't run at all. At first, he wasn't even at the actual battle lines. And when he faced Goliath, there was literally not even a shred of hesitation. This was probably just thrown into the show for a "zig instead of zag" moment.

[mr.brighteyes]

Double Quoth for Truth.

I'm enjoying it. And it will probably be cancelled, because of the above reasons.




I'm not sure where exactly you're getting this idea, but in the Biblical Account, David didn't run at all. At first, he wasn't even at the actual battle lines. And when he faced Goliath, there was literally not even a shred of hesitation. This was probably just thrown into the show for a "zig instead of zag" moment.

Yes he did

1 Now the Philistines gathered their forces for war and assembled at Socoh in Judah. They pitched camp at Ephes Dammim, between Socoh and Azekah. 2 Saul and the Israelites assembled and camped in the Valley of Elah and drew up their battle line to meet the Philistines. 3 The Philistines occupied one hill and the Israelites another, with the valley between them.

4 A champion named Goliath, who was from Gath, came out of the Philistine camp. He was over nine feet [a] tall. 5 He had a bronze helmet on his head and wore a coat of scale armor of bronze weighing five thousand shekels ; 6 on his legs he wore bronze greaves, and a bronze javelin was slung on his back. 7 His spear shaft was like a weaver's rod, and its iron point weighed six hundred shekels. [c] His shield bearer went ahead of him.

8 Goliath stood and shouted to the ranks of Israel, "Why do you come out and line up for battle? Am I not a Philistine, and are you not the servants of Saul? Choose a man and have him come down to me. 9 If he is able to fight and kill me, we will become your subjects; but if I overcome him and kill him, you will become our subjects and serve us." 10 Then the Philistine said, "This day I defy the ranks of Israel! Give me a man and let us fight each other." 11 On hearing the Philistine's words, Saul and all the Israelites were dismayed and terrified.

12 Now David was the son of an Ephrathite named Jesse, who was from Bethlehem in Judah. Jesse had eight sons, and in Saul's time he was old and well advanced in years. 13 Jesse's three oldest sons had followed Saul to the war: The firstborn was Eliab; the second, Abinadab; and the third, Shammah. 14 David was the youngest. The three oldest followed Saul, 15 but David went back and forth from Saul to tend his father's sheep at Bethlehem.

16 For forty days the Philistine came forward every morning and evening and took his stand.

17 Now Jesse said to his son David, "Take this ephah [d] of roasted grain and these ten loaves of bread for your brothers and hurry to their camp. 18 Take along these ten cheeses to the commander of their unit. [e] See how your brothers are and bring back some assurance [f] from them. 19 They are with Saul and all the men of Israel in the Valley of Elah, fighting against the Philistines."

20 Early in the morning David left the flock with a shepherd, loaded up and set out, as Jesse had directed. He reached the camp as the army was going out to its battle positions, shouting the war cry. 21 Israel and the Philistines were drawing up their lines facing each other. 22 David left his things with the keeper of supplies, ran to the battle lines and greeted his brothers. 23 As he was talking with them, Goliath, the Philistine champion from Gath, stepped out from his lines and shouted his usual defiance, and David heard it. 24 When the Israelites saw the man, [B]they all ran from him in great fear.

It may have been brief but he did.

[malephoenix]

There may be some scholarly debate that I'm unaware of, I'll admit to that. But the phrase "they all ran in great fear" (I can't tell the version - is that TNIV?) doesn't mean that "every Jewish person ran away."

This is a crude job, but think of it like this: There are two hills. On one hill is camped the Israelites and on the other, the Philistines. Down in the middle is what we would call the front lines. David and all the people up on the hill didn't run. But the soldiers down on the battle lines were terrified.

That's part of the point of the whole story. David wasn't frightened at all. He was surprised at how not even one man was willing to go and fight for the God that his family had taught him would protect them, no matter what.

[jessecuster3]

I enjoyed it, and will give it a few more episodes. I thought they tried to hard to equate Dylan Baker's character to Dick Cheney, I also am getting a huge Carmela Soprano vibe from McShane's wife on the show. They could have named the David character anything, but Shepherd, really? Why not just call him Jesus and get it over with?

[Expletive Deleted]

They could have named the David character anything, but Shepherd, really? Why not just call him Jesus and get it over with?And, for that matter, why not just call McShane's character Saul? I can understand dropping some of the more archaic biblical names (Saul's wife, for example), but why swap Saul for Silas?

[mr.brighteyes]

I enjoyed it, and will give it a few more episodes. I thought they tried to hard to equate Dylan Baker's character to Dick Cheney, I also am getting a huge Carmela Soprano vibe from McShane's wife on the show. They could have named the David character anything, but Shepherd, really? Why not just call him Jesus and get it over with?

You do realize that David was a shepherd right? what did you want his last name to be? David Giantkiller, David Slingshot, David Harper (in retrospect that one might have worked.)

[the_coldest_sun]

I loved it even more re-watching it on Hulu. There were many little things I didn't pick up on upon first viewing. Like how Silas had his general secretly kill the politician at his table that spoke out against him. Watching it a second time made me realize why I really like this show. It reminds me of a book series called "A Song of Ice & Fire" by George RR Martin, only modern and biblical. There's a lot of players, conspirators, king has bastard(s), etc. If anyone's read A Game of Thrones, Dylan Baker and his character's sister quite reminded me of Jaime and Cersei Lannister (but i doubt these two are sleeping together--ick, incest!). Jack (is that his name? the king's gay son) reminded me of a combination between Joffery Baratheon and Viserys Targaryan. David reminds me of Jon Snow, and the moment between David and Reverend Samuel at the banquet reminded me of Jon Snow's conversation with Tyrion Lannister at King Robert's banquet in Winterfell. Now, I'm not saying that Kings ripped off the book series. Not at all. I'm only saying that this show has everything I loved about the "A Song of Ice & Fire". And that's a good thing.

I do agree that his show being too sophisticated may be it's undoing. There are a lot of things casual viewers will miss and/or not understand. A show like this would've benefited on something like HBO, etc. Hopefully ratings will improve because I really like this show (even after just seeing the 1st episode) and I want to see it at least complete it's first season to wrap things up nicely. If they can do that, I'll at least be happy. Multiple seasons could possibly ruin what may be a perfect first season (I'm looking at you, Heroes!). :mad:

[Frank]

I think you're right. A Kings, Heroes, Medium line-up could be a winner.

More like Chuck, Heroes and Kings. I think Chuck has appeal with the super-hero fans. And Medium is more like chick-centric(even if there are supernatural elements). I think Kings has big ideas and testosterones and would go well again for sh fans.

The main challenge for the show, is that some are uneasy about using a Bible story as a a basis for a prime-time soap. After that there's the basic idea that this takes place on an Earth with completely different countries, but it still has Franz Liszt. Usually if you see a set-up like this, the characters are living on a Battlestar or something. Some may have a harder time wrapping their brains around the alt.earth idea.

I never thought about the Bible. Maybe it's because i'm not that religious but I never saw the connection and my imidiate comparision was more with the current United States especialy the Bush regime. Making the country into a Kingdom at war is more than fitting.

But again the alternate reality idea is something super-hero fans would easily accept. They really should put out Kings after Heroes.

I thought the show worked, and really like the cast. I expect Susannah Thompson will turn out to be more Catherine De Medici than Jackie Kennedy. Eamonn Walker is always tremendous, and he's more than capable of standing up to the King. Dylan Baker is always a wonderful SOB, and I think this show will give him a chance to really shine.

I thought the cast was pretty good as well. But i've seen so many shows were everything was there from great cast with great chemistry and a solid concept and seeing it fail(two i'm thinking about were the sitcom "The Class" and the Fox show "Reunion"). Hopefully NBC give it more time to find an audience. They've always been more patient with their shows than other networks and along the way a buzz is created and it ends up being breakout hits like Scrubs and The Office.

[Toonimator]

More like Chuck, Heroes and Kings.
It's NBC though, so pretty soon it'll be Chuck, Heroes, and Jay Leno. :tongue: It's how NBC is finally solving their "What can follow Heroes?" dilemma rather than let any of the promising shows they tried build an audience over time.

[felix77]

If the Ratings slide after last week's disasterous opening. I'll give this 6-10 episodes tops.

Anyone know where I can find a preview for the next episode?

[JCAll]

I'm actually sorry I missed it now. I saw the commercial a thousand times and got nothing out of it but wasted but baseless drama and tits. Perhaps if someone in television learned to put together a commercial properly I wouldn't miss out when somethng clever finally comes along.

[the_coldest_sun]

Brian Cox... DAMN this show keeps getting better!

[mr.brighteyes]

The two guards are obviously the comedy relief of show. They remind me of either the guards from Pirates Of The Caribbean or The Two Loser Pirates from the same movie.

Silas's daughter is smoking hot she has a natural beauty to her that I haven't seen since Alexis Bledel first showed up on my radar.

I like the guy they cast as the opposing king.

It is interesting that Abbadon is in Ghena or Hell. In Revelations Abbadon is the Angel Of The Abyss.

It is also interesting to learn that Silas didn't kill the king he who's land he took. apparently there are several people still alive. It's likely that this is what caused him to lose favor with God.

1 Samuel 15:2 (KJV) Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
15:3 >Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.


It's amazing this show ever saw the light of day. Not just with how controversial it is but also with how much money they had to have spent on it. The Palace alone must have cost a fortune. I'm curious weather or not the pilot of this series matches the pilot of Lost in the cost of the thing.

I'm curious to know what Michelle's vow was. A vow of Celibacy maybe. Is she betrothed to another.

Word is that Macaulay Culkin is playing the King's Nephew.

[the goddamn batman]

Kings is controversial?

[the_coldest_sun]

I like the guy they cast as the opposing king.

"Ventuuuuraaaa."
"yes, Satan? Oh Im sorry, you sounded like someone else." :biggrin:

Agreed, and I also like who they cast as his general.

[West Mantooth]

Brian Cox... DAMN this show keeps getting better!

That whole scene was so awesome!

I kept thinking he was writing the bible.:smile:

[mr.brighteyes]

Kings is controversial?

Well in an anti theistic society it is.

[the goddamn batman]

...but we don't live in an anti theistic society.

[the_coldest_sun]

That whole scene was so awesome!

I kept thinking he was writing the bible.:smile:

Yeah, ditto. Althought I also thought about the way the King has someone take dictation was a form of Silas' writing of the bible as well. Brian Cox writing it in a remote, forgotten prison cell is much better. :smile:

[West Mantooth]

Yeah, ditto. Althought I also thought about the way the King has someone take dictation was a form of Silas' writing of the bible as well. Brian Cox writing it in a remote, forgotten prison cell is much better. :smile:

Our bible is a composite of different versions, some telling the same story with varying accounts.

[mr.brighteyes]

...but we don't live in an anti theistic society.


we're not that far off

[Mia]

Well in an anti theistic society it is.

While the show is clearly based partly on a modern telling of King David from the Bible. I can also see that they are using great chunks of Shakespeare's King Lear and McBeth and Hamlet. The country's set up reminds me very much of some of the European monarchies they have in Northern Europe (ie. Sweden, The Netherlands,Denmark). I would love to see a map of the country.

The religion/refrences to God are not that overt or heavy handed. And they are used they are used it's more along the lines of having a personal relationship with the Creator. Remember in episode one. Silas said that 'It was not popular to refer to God'. So the use of God in the show is more along the lines of the characters own personal relationship with him. The country is not partly a theocracy and the general population is not being forced to worship God.

The premise of the show is very interesting. However I'm having a problem with the execution. The David parts are weak. And in many ways the show reminds me of your typical soap about a rich familiy running a multi-billion dollar company.

[West Mantooth]

The premise of the show is very interesting. However I'm having a problem with the execution. The David parts are weak. And in many ways the show reminds me of your typical soap about a rich familiy running a multi-billion dollar company.

I worry about this. If by some miracle this manages a second season, I hope they use the political overtones to explore the characters rather than staying confined to the soap opera family dynamics. It hasn't gotten bad yet.

It would be great to see David deal with his community being handed over for the treaty by returning home for an arc or two.

The David part is boring because the actor Chris Egan doesn't have much charisma.

[the goddamn batman]

we're not that far off

I totally disagree.

[felix77]

Bad news. Another rating slide last night. This will be gone soon.
http://tvbythenumbers.com/category/ratings/nielsen-overnight-tv-show-ratings

As badly as NBC’s Kings premiered last week, it was down another 19% in the 18-49 demo in its first one hour edition.

[malephoenix]

The religion/refrences to God are not that overt or heavy handed. And they are used they are used it's more along the lines of having a personal relationship with the Creator. Remember in episode one. Silas said that 'It was not popular to refer to God'. So the use of God in the show is more along the lines of the characters own personal relationship with him. The country is not partly a theocracy and the general population is not being forced to worship God.


That's ironic for me; I've been feeling the exact opposite since the show's pilot, but I've been hoping to wait for a few more episodes to really see what's up. It seems to me that "God" in the show is used largely as God is used in reality. As a political tool, as a hot-button, at the most - as a philosophy. There is a void of personal relationship with God.

King Silas talks about God granting him the kingship, but he cares more about what God can do for him than how much he can praise God, or serve man in God's name. (Of course, since this series skips the early days of King Saul, it's a fairly accurate representation of how Saul behaved around this time.)

And most of all, David himself has no personal relationship with God. He's just young and naive. One of the main themes of the Biblical account was how much David was a man "after God's own heart." But even though that phrase might be used in the television series, he's empty of an intimate relationship with God:

-In the Biblical account, David faced Goliath because he was so sure of God's protection and victory that God didn't even have to tell him to go.
-In the series, he was just afraid and it was all luck and an accident.

-The original David spends a great deal of his personal time praising God.
-In the series, he doesn't seem to even know anything about God.

-The real David has deep personal convictions about how to behave in his personal life. (Albiet he does some deeply dastardly things, because the Bible shows it's characters realistically - warts and all.)
-For the series, David just behaves as most guys his age. He has a noble heart, but it's born out of "doing the right thing" more than "my desire is to glorify God."

Anyone else think about this issue, yet? I'm curious what other watchers think.

[West Mantooth]

Good points.

I was curious about the tank incident. The whole thing was an accident.

It's fun to look at these "signs" in modern day where people seem to have less ability to invoke divine intervention as oppose to the biblical teachings. King Silas even admits to still trying to interprete the signs instead of following whatever the signs say.

[sneggz]

Man, i am really loving this show. But, whats up with Michelle? Why'd she have to ditch David?

[the_coldest_sun]

Man, i am really loving this show. But, whats up with Michelle? Why'd she have to ditch David?

I didn't understand that at first because I had to leave the room, but tonight's recap showed Silas telling her something like "Don't forget about your promise...", meaning there's some secret the two share, possibly a betrothed or something similar.

Tonight's episode shows she always seems to push suitors away even if they're worthy. Silas probably made her promise that she would never marry someone who threatens his throne or the people's favor.

In other news, that Prince ain't no punk.

[felix77]

According to the Biblical version, Saul's son is a big friend of David's.
Is the show following this parallel as well?

[the_coldest_sun]

According to the Biblical version, Saul's son is a big friend of David's.
Is the show following this parallel as well?

Not really. Then again, you have to ask yourself which of Silas's son may have the biblical connection with David in the show?

I thought tonight's episode was really good, showing the struggles Silas battles with in being king. His decision to give up his "real" family clearly was a hard one for him to make. No matter his decision, he ends up looking like an ass. He truly seems to want peace and believes he's doing the right thing, but he doesn't understand what God wants from him. He's confused and conflicted. I like how they handle God in this show. He isn't stuffed down the viewers' throats, but He's involved enough to have close relationships with the characters.

BTW, I SOOO want that painting of Ian McShane the reverend Samuel shifted. :biggrin:

[Frank]

I sort of wish this show would drop God-this, God-that and the supernatural bend would be more fantasy-oriented.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

I like how they handle God in this show. He isn't stuffed down the viewers' throats, but He's involved enough to have close relationships with the characters.


That probably depends more on the viewer's individual beliefs. I feel like the concept of a god is being forced on the viewer because you have to either accept that there's a god or suspend your disbelief in order to watch the show.

Even when Silas questioned god when he was talking to Samuels on the road it was reconciled by him hitting the deer.

[West Mantooth]

Not really. Because Silas, besides Samuels, is the only one really attempting to read anything as a sign from God. Everyone else simply believes in Silas. There is no sense of a firm God in any of this. Even the producers had changed everyone's names and made the situations a big muddier. We would have had to guess as to what was a sign and what wasn't.

[felix77]

The ratings sucked again last night.

Is NBC cmmited to showing the rest of the Episodes? Or are they going to replace it midway?

[the_coldest_sun]

That probably depends more on the viewer's individual beliefs. I feel like the concept of a god is being forced on the viewer because you have to either accept that there's a god or suspend your disbelief in order to watch the show.

Even when Silas questioned god when he was talking to Samuels on the road it was reconciled by him hitting the deer.

But that's what I actually like about how they handle God in this show. What I meant by "stuffing Him down our throats" is that they aren't preaching how good God is and that we should all worship him. In the show, Silas and Samuel believe strongly in God's existence ... and frankly, thanks to the whole sacrifice thing, God kinda seems like a jerk.

And I love that.

Personal beliefs aside, you have to take God in this show for whatever the show portrays him as. In this show/world, God does exist (according to Silas and Samuel) and he behaves as this show/world portrays him. It has nothing to do with the God that may or may not exist in OUR world.

[the goddamn batman]

I don't believe in god, myself, and have no problem with how it's handled in the show.

[the goddamn batman]

Man, tonight's episode was one of the best so far! Anyone still watching?

[Blueferret]

I love this show. Too bad it doesn't look long for this world.

[West Mantooth]

Oh, "those people" and their land! Will it ever end?lol:rolleyes:

Michelle getting caught was a little lame but I'm glad they addressed the entire giving away Port Prosperity.

[Push You Down]

I enjoy the show.. but they really are fouling up.... David is probably the most boring character and it, much like Deadwood is ABOUT Ian McShane. Bullock on Deadwood atleast had some good character arcs and bits.. this David has nothing.

[jesse_custer]

Deadwood was about much more than Ian McShane, although Swearengen would be my pick for best character in television.

[felix77]

"NBC is pulling the low-rated Kings from its Sunday-night timeslot, effective this week, and moving it to Saturday nights at 8 p.m. ET/PT, according to The Hollywood Reporter."
http://scifiwire.com/2009/04/nbc-to-dethrone-kings-fro.php#more

Cancellation here we come.

[sneggz]

Damnit.

13 episodes were made correct? Hopefully they'll either let em all air or hurry up and release the boxset.

[End of Time]

NBC set the show up to fail.

So far everybody I've spoken to, or convinced to watch Kings, has been extremely positive about the whole thing.

Kings is original and fresh, and it's something that doesn't fall into the same traps as other shows have fallen in. Unlike Lost this show isn't dangerously slow on answers and plot. Unlike Heroes it isn't spiralling out of control trying to change the status quo with each new episode.

But NBC hasn't promoted this show in any shape or way, they've condemned it from the start.

That's the sound of reviewers everywhere it seems "We love this show, we want it to succeed, you really should be watching this, but we know it's not going to last for more than one season."

[Alex]

NBC set the show up to fail.

So far everybody I've spoken to, or convinced to watch Kings, has been extremely positive about the whole thing.

Kings is original and fresh, and it's something that doesn't fall into the same traps as other shows have fallen in. Unlike Lost this show isn't dangerously slow on answers and plot. Unlike Heroes it isn't spiralling out of control trying to change the status quo with each new episode.

But NBC hasn't promoted this show in any shape or way, they've condemned it from the start.

That's the sound of reviewers everywhere it seems "We love this show, we want it to succeed, you really should be watching this, but we know it's not going to last for more than one season."


I think the problem is the cost to produce episodes.
30 Rock had great reviews, but horrible, horrible ratings for its 1st season, and they renewed it. It continued to do bad in it's second season, and they renewed it again. I don't know how it's doing now, i never cared for it, but i think the ratings picked up after two seasons of almost cancelation.

But there's no way it costs as much to make as Kings.

[the goddamn batman]

...NBC made an expensive show and shot themselves in the foot by practically ignoring the fact that they were airing it.

I really hope networks keep making decisions like this and run themselves into the ground.

[jesse_custer]

Unlike Lost this show isn't dangerously slow on answers and plot.

I would argue Lost has too much plot.

[End of Time]

I would argue Lost has too much plot.

never said it didn't have any... I said it was too slow. There are forty stories going on, but none of them are going anywhere.

[the_coldest_sun]

So correct me if I'm wrong, but was there no Kings this past weekend?

I knew the new day was Saturdays but it didn't come one at 7 or 8.
Then on Sunday, it was Dateline (or something like it) with a commercial advertising Kings' new night on Saturdays.

[Blueferret]

So correct me if I'm wrong, but was there no Kings this past weekend?

I knew the new day was Saturdays but it didn't come one at 7 or 8.
Then on Sunday, it was Dateline (or something like it) with a commercial advertising Kings' new night on Saturdays.

I think it had to do with Easter.

[Shadowfax32]

There was no Kings on April 12. It has officially moved to Saturdays.

[the_coldest_sun]

So, no responses to the new episode? This show is so dead. =(

[the goddamn batman]

I liked it. I keep watching, but it's hard to get invested knowing it's going to end in a couple episodes.

[the_coldest_sun]

Thats true. I really really like this show, but its future is uncertain and its more than likely we won't even get a conclusion to this season.

[the_coldest_sun]

Crap, I didn't realize this show was on hiatus. I missed yesterday's episode only to find out today there was no yesterday episode. Why NBC? WHY?! :(

[the goddamn batman]

Because NBC is run by fucking idiots.

[Alex]

I liked it. I keep watching, but it's hard to get invested knowing it's going to end in a couple episodes.

Yeah, i heard there won't be a new episode shown until mid june.
So, if we are lucky we will get to see how the first season ends, but that's it, it's done.

[Blueferret]

According to this article, it's a mid-summer show now.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i5a22d4d608ec4c253837271d68a79080

[the_coldest_sun]

Yeah, Hulu shows it listed to return June 14th.

http://www.hulu.com/kings

[the goddamn batman]

Wow! So you moved a struggling show to the lowest viewed night of television and it didn't do well there either? That's fucking shocking.

It's almost like NBC have no interest in it succeeding... :wink:

[the_coldest_sun]

Wow! So you moved a struggling show to the lowest viewed night of television and it didn't do well there either? That's fucking shocking.

It's almost like NBC have no interest in it succeeding... :wink:

Yep. I can't count the endless number of commercials I've seen for their other new show Southland but where the hell are all the Kings commercials? I've only seen ONE in my entire life--and what was when they aired it on Sunday when the show was SUPPOSE to already be on letting the fans know it moved to Saturdays.

[the_coldest_sun]

Well, the show's back and aired two fantastic episodes already that no one is watching or commenting on. NBC didn't pick Kings up for a second season, but at least they'll finish airing what's left. Plus the DVD set comes out in September.

[West Mantooth]

Damn this show is freakin amazing. I'm partly glad it's cancelled cause their's no way they could have kept this level of writing up for seasons.

The Queen's diatribe to Michelle in the mirror was dead-on.

[The Zapper]

I don't know why, but I'm still watching this show. I'm a big fan of Ian McShane, so that must be it.

[the_coldest_sun]

I'm still watching it because I love this show. But yes, Ian McShane is a big part of why too. But like Mantooth, I will have to view its cancelation as a blessing or risk seeing the show's overall quality reduced to utter crap ala Heroes (which had a fantastic 1st Season).

With the Brotherhood and Sabbath Queen episodes, I find myself starting to like Prince Jack a whole lot more. There's tons of depth to his character once you start to realize why he is the way he is, and I find myself empathizing with him.

[Ontir]

I'm hoping it finds a home on cable. It's easier to keep quality there, because it's more expected than in broadcast.

[the_coldest_sun]

I just saw the new episode. Continues to be great. Made me like Jack even more, finally admitting his that he loved that guy not only to his mother but himself as well. I knew he'd sacrifice his secret for his sister's (which was something I hoped he would eventually do in this series--throw himself to the wolves to protect someone else), however I'm a little miffed about him having to play "character" once again by marrying that other girl (her name escapes me) but I'm interested to see how that plays out.

I'm also eager to see how Andrew became at odds with the royal family. I really hope that they do at least 1 episode that focuses on him and tells the story of what exactly happened to force the king to exile him.

[sneggz]

Ok, this episode was friggin intense. Silas' breakdown and the gun at the end? Just epic.

[West Mantooth]

Man, now I'm really glad they aren't going to have a second season because McShane as king was the best part. If he goes now, I'm not really interested in Chris Egan's ability to carry a show solo.

[the_coldest_sun]

Wow...that ending, just wow.

Jack Benjamin continues to grow. I love how they've treated his character, from being an entitled whiney party boy to having some independent thought and nobility. I mean yeah he's still taking orders from his uncle but that outburst in the courtroom was all him. That was dope.

It's crazy how throughout the series, I wanted to like the king--and have for a majority--but now after everything he's been doing, I want him dead. He's been loosing his mind/security gradually and now he's totally flipped his lid...in public display no less. That was great.

With Michelle being pregnant and the king offering mercy if pleading guilty, I got a chilled reminder of Eddard Stark (from the book A Game of Thrones), and feared David may share the same fate, which really up'd the tention for me throughout this episode. Then Jack interrupts everything, that completely took me by surprise (I mean I figured he'd break eventually--or hoped--but I didn't think he'd do it out in the open like that).

Can't wait to see how this all goes down.

[Ugoff]

Wow...that ending, just wow.

Jack Benjamin continues to grow. I love how they've treated his character, from being an entitled whiney party boy to having some independent thought and nobility. I mean yeah he's still taking orders from his uncle but that outburst in the courtroom was all him. That was dope.

It's crazy how throughout the series, I wanted to like the king--and have for a majority--but now after everything he's been doing, I want him dead. He's been loosing his mind/security gradually and now he's totally flipped his lid...in public display no less. That was great.

With Michelle being pregnant and the king offering mercy if pleading guilty, I got a chilled reminder of Eddard Stark (from the book A Game of Thrones), and feared David may share the same fate, which really up'd the tention for me throughout this episode. Then Jack interrupts everything, that completely took me by surprise (I mean I figured he'd break eventually--or hoped--but I didn't think he'd do it out in the open like that).

Can't wait to see how this all goes down.

I agree. I am very grateful I decided to tune into this show recently. I started watching maybe 5 or 6 episodes ago. While I'm disappointed it won't be renewed, I'm ok with that now. Sometimes I show can lose it's greatness if it's kept alive. At least we get a full story. A beginning, middle, and end. So many of our beloved genre shows have suffered a worse fate. Actually I wish we had more shows like Harper's Island, where your garaunteed a full story without fear of cancellation. And what a great story and amazing ride Kings has been! It's definitely epic.

[the_coldest_sun]

Hehe, Silas pulled a "Perez Hilton".

=P

[the_coldest_sun]

Okay...now I'm REALLY confused about Andrew's role in all this. What's his angle?! Only 1 more episode left and things are really kicking into high gear. Great to see Brian Cox again, with more screen time and dialogue. Thomasina is awesome and loyal to the bone. I like her a lot. That was pretty cold what Silas did to Jack for forgiveness. So many inappropriate lines from Silas, which was just too badass. "Your mouth's touched worse things", "That's the second time your mother's gave you life." Crazy, I love it. I want to talk about it all but there's so many spoilers.

What did everyone else think?

[West Mantooth]

Jack's character arc has been the best. I enjoy him way more than David or Allison. There really haven't been any outright villains just people doing villainous things to each other by stepping over someone else.

[sneggz]

Son of a bitch! I want a season 2 damnit!

[West Mantooth]

A bit uneven, but that may be more from me wishing it was a full series finale instead of an ending.

[the_coldest_sun]

dammit!! I just saw the finale today.

I, too, was hoping for a series finale rather than a cliffhanger (if this was to be the end of it). I mean it was a great episode but it was bittersweet knowing there's not going to be a conclusion. >_<

When the queen started announcing Michelle's punishment, I immediately went "you back-stabbing bitch!" until she said "no less than 1 year", then I went ooooohhh. She's helping her cover up the pregnancy. I love Michelle's facial reaction as she's hearing this. She looks SO confused, like she's not sure what emotion she should be feeling because she's feeling so many things at once.

Argh, I really want to see it finished.

[End of Time]

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Damnit!

One more double length episode... maybe three, or four, a miniseries... a movie... something to give this show the closure it deserves!

[wolfpack4x1]

was a new king part two really the last episode. because i want more. maybe the scifi channel will pick it up but I doubt it. i was hoping for something like that for jericho

[Alex]

I'm so glad the show got axed with an ending that was clearly a lead in to the next season.
Maybe they will pull an hbo move and say it reached it's logical conclusion.

[the_coldest_sun]

So I picked up the DVD set today. I haven't put it on yet, but I'm pretty disappointed that (like when it aired) NBC didn't even attempt to market it. There were no shelf space for it at Walmart and I had to asked a second person at Best Buy to look for it in the stockroom (because the website said it was in stock and the first employee blew me off cus apparently she never heard of it). Not only that, but there are basically no special featurettes. Just ONE episode commentary and deleted scenes scattered throughout.

NBC just had/has no love for this series and it breaks my heart. At least I should be thankful it even got a DVD release.