Was the Danger Room a Terrible Idea?

[darknessatnoon]

Bracketing the fact that the Shiar danger room was an enslaved, insane, AI, Xavier always relied a bit too much on training drills. When he finally regained the use of his legs and put on a yellow jump suit, Xavier believed all the training he had done would make him a more effective field leader than Storm. The real world proved him wrong. Similarly, Cyclops and Emma had a Danger Room-centric training regime that gave characters who didn't have the stuff the illusion that they could really fight. This got many of them killed. Emma made the same mistake with her Hellions, as did Banshee with Generation X.

Storm, on the other hand, spent years mentoring Dazzler making sure Alison was the born hero Storm sensed she was. When the time came to find her own recruits, she abandoned the training facility and recruited heroes who had proved themselves with real life experience - Psylocke, Havok, Dazzler, Longshot, Bishop, Jubilee, Sage and Gambit.

Similarly, Cable felt the New Mutants shouldn't be coddled with training drills and took them out into the real world.

Was the Danger Room a mistake? Is Cyclops making the same mistake thinking that his "army's" training drills will make them an effective fighting force?

[timbox]

If you were in charge, and actually cared about the survival of your team, would you seriously take the New or Young X-Men into real-world situations?

[darknessatnoon]

If you were in charge, and actually cared about the survival of your team, would you seriously take the New or Young X-Men into real-world situations?

I would not rely on child soldiers such as Cyclops, Iceman, Beast, Angel, Jean Grey, Havok, Polaris, Vulcan, Darwin, Petra or Sway in the first place. Adults like Storm, Banshee, Colossus, Wolverine, Nightcrawler and Thunderbird are the way to go.

[Prodigy55]

I questioned the accuracy of the Danger Room when the New Mutants training squad was able to take down the Hulk in 22 seconds.
The Paragons (!!!) also did it.

[lonewolf23k]

Uh... The whole point of the Danger Room was teaching Mutants how to fight with their powers and adapt to the chaotic situation of a battlefield. I mean, seriously, half of all the X-Men started off as kids from the suburbs; where else are they going to learn how to fight superhumans and giant robots?

[The Cool Thatguy]

The Danger Room, in addition to real battles, helped place the X-Men above every team out there in terms of training and coordination. Sure, without enough real battles, students don't do that great, but nothing is perfect.

Look at the students who made up the New Warriors. Their danger room training, combined with equipment, allowed them to become a more effective fighting force than those who were being trained in the Intiative.

[darknessatnoon]

Uh... The whole point of the Danger Room was teaching Mutants how to fight with their powers and adapt to the chaotic situation of a battlefield. I mean, seriously, half of all the X-Men started off as kids from the suburbs; where else are they going to learn how to fight superhumans and giant robots?

Longshot may have been an idiot, but even he never needed the Danger Room.

[lonewolf23k]

Longshot may have been an idiot, but even he never needed the Danger Room.

That's because Longshot spent his whole damn life under battlefield conditions, learned how to fight the hard way, and had Luck powers on top of it all.

Meanwhile, X-men like Kitty Pryde of Jubilee came from civilian backgrounds, and needed to learn the basics of combat training.

Fighting skills don't come out of the ether.

[darknessatnoon]

That's because Longshot spent his whole damn life under battlefield conditions, learned how to fight the hard way, and had Luck powers on top of it all.

Meanwhile, X-men like Kitty Pryde of Jubilee came from civilian backgrounds, and needed to learn the basics of combat training.

Fighting skills don't come out of the ether.

Jubilee handled herself in Madripoor and Genosha without any training. Because she had the right stuff.

[Tilt]

Jubilee handled herself in Madripoor and Genosha without any training. Because she had the right stuff.

And she avoided mutant hating cyborgs with bloody cyborg dingos while keeping Wolverine alive after he'd been crucified.

[Omega Alpha]

This thread is a terrible idea.

[The Black Guardian]

I would not rely on child soldiers such as Cyclops, Iceman, Beast, Angel, Jean Grey, Havok, Polaris, Vulcan, Darwin, Petra or Sway in the first place. Adults like Storm, Banshee, Colossus, Wolverine, Nightcrawler and Thunderbird are the way to go.
Yet there are still all of these children with powers that can hurt, kill, and destroy. There's nothing else to do but stick them in a danger room, until they can be on an adult team.

[gorthon616]

I would not rely on child soldiers such as Cyclops, Iceman, Beast, Angel, Jean Grey, Havok, Polaris, Vulcan, Darwin, Petra or Sway in the first place. Adults like Storm, Banshee, Colossus, Wolverine, Nightcrawler and Thunderbird are the way to go.

But that doesn't say anything about whether the Danger Room is a good idea or not. Sure you can't compensate for real world experience with training simulations. But on the same token you aren't going to give someone real world experience (especially of the frequent end-of-all-life-on-Earth variety as superheroes frequent) as a training exercise.

[Papa Moai]

But that doesn't say anything about whether the Danger Room is a good idea or not. Sure you can't compensate for real world experience with training simulations. But on the same token you aren't going to give someone real world experience (especially of the frequent end-of-all-life-on-Earth variety as superheroes frequent) as a training exercise.
Exactly. The argument that superhero teams should recruit people with previous fighting experience instead of civilians (and in the case of X-Men, youngsters) is certainly valid. And it's true that doing well in Danger Room sessions doesn't necessarily mean someone will do well in actual battle. But that doesn't mean that training in itself isn't necessary. Even the experienced heroes benefit from training sessions.

[darknessatnoon]

This thread is a terrible idea.

I am sorry my thread hurt your feelings.

[Omega Alpha]

I am sorry my thread hurt your feelings.

I'll never forgive you.

[The Black Guardian]

Thing is, with the Danger Room, it is very much possible to give someone real-world experience.

[Gilda Dent]

Danger room training for the mutants is like practicing one's sport before competition, training in a dojo before a tournament, or war games in the military.

A skill needs to be practiced to be brought to mastery. Practice sessions may not bring you all the way, but they're going to give those who have them a head start over those who are just thrown into the field untrained.

In addition, the X-Men and New Mutants and the like aren't like, say, the Avengers, where the primary job was to team up to fight bad guys. The primary purpose of Xavier's school was, as the name implies, education, learning how to use one's powers safely and efficiently so as to avoid harming others in the process. Fighting bad guys is a very important, but secondary purpose.

Think about it this way: Suppose there is a young mutant who has the power to manipulate electrical energy. Is she going to be better off learning to cope on her own, or by being taken in by a group of people who have experience and expertise and being trained in the use of this potentially dangerous ability so that she doesn't hurt herself or anyone else along the way?

[eurazn]

That's because Longshot spent his whole damn life under battlefield conditions, learned how to fight the hard way, and had Luck powers on top of it all.

Considering he's had his memory wiped every other year, he doesn't have much of his "whole life" experience to fall back on. To this day he still hasn't needed the Danger Room.

I can't believe I'm saying something positive about Longshot. D@mn you, Darkness!

I questioned the accuracy of the Danger Room when the New Mutants training squad was able to take down the Hulk in 22 seconds.
The Paragons (!!!) also did it.

Yes, and the New X-Men did so well against the Hulk during World War Hulk! Yay, Danger Room preparation!

[darknessatnoon]

Considering he's had his memory wiped every other year, he doesn't have much of his "whole life" experience to fall back on. To this day he still hasn't needed the Danger Room.

I can't believe I'm saying something positive about Longshot. D@mn you, Darkness!


The point is that even a moron doesn't need training in the Danger Room. Did Marrow need a Danger Room? Did Cecilia Reyes? Kiden Nixon? Storm? Gambit? Dazzler? Longshot learned to get into knife fights without holograms. All these people learned on the streets. And these bitches are rough.

It seems to me the Danger Room is for soft mutants who aren't cut out to be real heroes.

[Novaya Havoc]

Dazzler took down the Hulk without Danger Room experience. I think Dazzler has only been in the Danger Room twice. But since she has the right stuff and was born a hero, she's done far more than any of the Danger Room lackeys.

[timbox]

X-23 obvioulsy didn't need the danger room.

Armor probably didn't either, she was stuck with those kids.

[timbox]

Dazzler took down the Hulk without Danger Room experience. I think Dazzler has only been in the Danger Room twice. But since she has the right stuff and was born a hero, she's done far more than any of the Danger Room lackeys.

The Danger Room doesn't cover how to utilize your hot body in combat.

[caney]

I think the danger room is totally necessary. If your goal is to train mutants to control their powers so that they're not dangerous to themselves or others, then the danger room is an ideal place for them to practice safely. If your goal is to create a team of mutants to go out into the world and protect humanity from "evil" mutants, then the danger room is again a great place for them to gain experience before taking on a real challenge with real dangers.

As mentioned, no training exercise can ready someone for every possible circumstance, but sending mutants into battle without any training experience at all would be the same as sending a new police officer into the line of fire on their first day without teaching them how to shoot a gun or work with other officers as a team. That would be highly irresponsible.


X-23 obvioulsy didn't need the danger room.


LOL, and now she's the model mutant. (Plus she kinda did have a danger room like experience in what they've shown of her training)

[Charlotte DeBlr]

Yes, and the New X-Men did so well against the Hulk during World War Hulk! Yay, Danger Room preparation!

Well, the thing with Hulk was that Wallflower's "calming pheromones" (and apparently Pixie's "pixie dust") were tailor-made to calm him. Conviniently, none of the two were around in Hulk comics when WWH came (and we don't know how exactly the other squads did in that Hulk simulation- only the results of two who had "anti-Hulk" mutants in it.

The squad in WWH was pretty much "Brute force" only (not to say adult X-psis tried anything creative on Hulk, but then...we're talking pointless sales-driven crossover and inventing reasons for someone's performation is dull).

Though I don't know how would those fare against the "super Hulk now packaged with the biggest jobber aura ever" (conviniently the only two metas with empathic\pheromone powers left in the world during WWH were villains and had no business in taking Hulk).

[AdamYJ]

I would not rely on child soldiers such as Cyclops, Iceman, Beast, Angel, Jean Grey, Havok, Polaris, Vulcan, Darwin, Petra or Sway in the first place. Adults like Storm, Banshee, Colossus, Wolverine, Nightcrawler and Thunderbird are the way to go.

Here's a question. Why is it that when young people like Peter Parker (in the '60s), Robbie Baldwin (in the '80s and '90s) and Kate Bishop (now) go out into battles and stuff, they're just "young super-heroes", yet when it's X-Men then they're "child soldiers"? It kind of paints things in a negative light.

[Novaya Havoc]

Peter Parker was not recruited by a nefarious cripple and shoved into a "danger" room to please his mentor. The X-Men were recruited and exploited. Professor Xavier even wanted to molest Jean Grey -- ever since Issue #1. Hence, "child soldiers."

And let us not speak of the horrors Xavier placed upon the young, impressionable Tessa, who was locked away from the other children and sold into sexual slavery.

[darknessatnoon]

Peter Parker was not recruited by a nefarious cripple and shoved into a "danger" room to please his mentor. The X-Men were recruited and exploited. Professor Xavier even wanted to molest Jean Grey -- ever since Issue #1. Hence, "child soldiers."

And let us not speak of the horrors Xavier placed upon the young, impressionable Tessa, who was locked away from the other children and sold into sexual slavery.

Correct. There is nothing that is not psycho and creepy about the Professor's recruitment strategy, children and the "danger room."

[gorthon616]

The point is that even a moron doesn't need training in the Danger Room. Did Marrow need a Danger Room? Did Cecilia Reyes? Kiden Nixon? Storm? Gambit? Dazzler? Longshot learned to get into knife fights without holograms. All these people learned on the streets. And these bitches are rough.

It seems to me the Danger Room is for soft mutants who aren't cut out to be real heroes.

I'm sure there are a long list of dead mutants who would have thought that the Danger Room would have helped them not be so dead.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Damnit, Darkness, I thought you knew better than actively encourage and praise anything that is Dreamboat-related.

Better yet, waltz inside a dojo, challenge a black belt and astonish him/her with the 'right stuff'. Please do post pictures once you've made it back from the ER.

[Mundungus]

Training exercises are important. If you drop a bunch of kids into a hostile environment and expect them to know what to do just because they can fire lasers out of their butt then you are a poor leader and mentor.

Think of it like a vocational school. The X-Men are being taught their skills in the safe confines of a school environment but the skills learned compliment their foray into real world environments.

The X-Men are trained to deal with a variety of cases. There should be emphasis put on a competent knowledge of human psychology and criminology with martial arts and military combat training.

Or they should be written by Paul Cornell to emphasize that their years of training were worth a damn.

[Papa Moai]

Considering he's had his memory wiped every other year, he doesn't have much of his "whole life" experience to fall back on. To this day he still hasn't needed the Danger Room.
I think we can assume that this was Jason Bourne type amnesia, where the skills and learned insticts still largely remain.

The Did Marrow need a Danger Room? Did Cecilia Reyes? Kiden Nixon? Storm? Gambit? Dazzler? Longshot learned to get into knife fights without holograms. All these people learned on the streets. And these bitches are rough. Most if not all of those people continued to train and learn after they joined the X-Men. This improved their skills not only as indivituals but especially as team-members.

It seems to me the Danger Room is for soft mutants who aren't cut out to be real heroes.People start training in the Danger Room with various amounts of previous experience. But they all come out of the Danger Room as better fighters than they went in. Not to mention that the ones with plenty of previous skills have it largely because of their previous training.

[DivaSparkles]

The Danger Room was a good idea only if you support the enslavement of intelligent life.

Are you pro-slavery?

[Prodigy55]

The only mutant who benefitted from Danger Room training is obviously Pixie. She was able to take down the Hulk at a young age and grew to become the strongest X-Woman of all time. Taking out enemies none of the others could handle.

http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo245/mustafe9/PixieHulk.jpg

[DeadXMan]

The Danger Room was a good idea only if you support the enslavement of intelligent life.

Are you pro-slavery?

only if they're Norwegian lesbians that feed me grapes and can sing

:wink: :tongue:

[Chris Lang]

The Danger Room is intended for training exercises. You don't just suddenly wake up, and are instantly capable of taking down Sentinels, N'Garai demons, mutant masters of magnetism, and so on. You need to train to develop reflexes, think on your feet, and use mutant powers or other nearby resources in clever ways to save the day.

So all in all, the Danger Room is a good idea ... except in the X-Men Forever universe if X-Men Forever #5's twist is any indication. But we've gone into that in the X-Men Forever threads.

However, it IS good that at least some writers acknowledge that the Danger Room has 'safety levels', so that the really inexperienced have less risk of serious injury during a training exercise.

[just another user]

The only mutant who benefitted from Danger Room training is obviously Pixie. She was able to take down the Hulk at a young age and grew to become the strongest X-Woman of all time. Taking out enemies none of the others could handle.

http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo245/mustafe9/PixieHulk.jpg

lol, that picture...

Better yet, waltz inside a dojo, challenge a black belt and astonish him/her with the 'right stuff'. Please do post pictures once you've made it back from the ER.

You can challenge me Darkness, I wouldn't put you in the ER, it would be bad form to abuse my powers. I haven't hospitalised anyone yet, 'cos I haven't needed to. When you get a black belt you also get a zen-like tranquillity.

only if they're Norwegian lesbians that feed me grapes and can sing

:wink: :tongue:

I don't get it.