DO's and DON'T's when designing a Superheroine

[K-DoG7p7]

DO's

* Sports bra : Off the top of my head I can only remember once seeing a superheroine with a sports bra.. and that was Misfit training (Thank you Nicola)

DON'T's

* Thigh High boots (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ed/Saturngirl.jpg): Lets face it the first thing that springs to mind is stripper
* Mega Clevage (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f6/Action_Comics_639.jpg) / Boob-Hole (http://www.cleavelin.net/archives001/pgbust.jpg): It only works on PowerGirl and only when making fun of it!
* Exposed thong (http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/7030/289035-77635-grace-choi_super.jpg): the 90's are over.. no need for whale tail now..
* Skirts (http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/11275/265806-52172-supergirl.jpg): On flyers especially, but also on the more street level, how lame must it be to knock out a guy with a boner because he thought he saw something :P
* Emblems (http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/8190/272843-104219-wonder-girl_super.jpg)or Costume patterns (http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/33806/686298-painted_spider_woman_super.jpg) Framing (http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/12370/255810-11797-120023-1-manhunter_super.jpg)the boobs:.. why bother having a costume at all ?
* High Heels: WTF? who can fight in High Heels?

I wanted to say exposed Midriff too.. but just because its kinda out of style does not make it a don't for super people.. after all.. female boxers let their 6packs breathe (http://www.abcnyheter.no/files/2008-18/nfi_18930_022254900_1209409405.jpg), why shouldn't supergirl?

As you notice the DO's list is very short because everything thats not on the DON'T's list is ok.. but there is only one thing that people should really really think about..
and i know I skipped a lot.. so whine all you want and I'll update it

[DungeonmasterJim]

Bah! I scoff at this list!

http://fc72.deviantart.com/fs8/i/2005/307/f/2/oldie_but_goodie_II_by_DungeonmasterJim.jpg

My home made super-heroine.

And my webcomic features a school girl clad Wiccan in a plaid skirt.

DM Jim

[Arrogantcur]

Bah! I scoff at this list!

http://fc72.deviantart.com/fs8/i/2005/307/f/2/oldie_but_goodie_II_by_DungeonmasterJim.jpg

My home made super-heroine.

And my webcomic features a school girl clad Wiccan in a plaid skirt.

DM Jim

Congratulations, Jim, you have piqued my interest and your webcomic is going to get one more hit tonight. (Which is kinda said when other people on Saturday night are hooking up with actual people who fit that description instead of just looking at drawings of them. :redface: Oh well.)

Here's what I've always thought about superheroine costumes:

HIGH HEELS:

-Plausible for flyers
-Implausible and impractical for people who can't fly and have to run and jump and shit*

*Although when I brought this up on CXF in 2008, I got this response:


It's not that their balance is so much better than the average person, it's the shoes.

I was a competative ballroom dancer in college, and preformed routines that involved my partner picking me up, flipping me head over heels, spinning me around, etc and my job was to land those lifts in 2 1/2 in stileto heels, without loosing the beat. And I could do it... But just a few years earlier I couldn't walk across a level floor in 1/2 in heels without risking a sprained ankle. It wasn't that my balance improved that dramatically, it was that I learned to buy shoes that secured my ankle over the heel of my shoe and secured the ball of my foot in the shoe.

Heels are easy to manage just as long as your weight always comes down over the heel, the wobbling comes in when the heel of your foot is free to move independently of the heel of your shoe.

EDIT TO ADD: Still, flats just make more sense. If you break a heel in the middle of a big fight and fall down and die, then you'll probably feel even dumber than Dollar Bill did in Watchmen. Dollar Bill got shot after his cape was stuck in a revolving door.

[mgs]

DO: -make her pretty, otherwise, no one will pay attention to her.
-give her a cool superpower otherwise you will bind the writer with her lameness.
-give her long hair. she can only have short hair after you've captivated her audience with her long hair first.

--------------------------------------------------------------

DON'T: -make her old or ugly. (see above)
-permanently scar her (see above)
-make her pregnant.
-give her an anorexic stripper/porn body. (of course, sales will dictate otherwise, BUT BE STRONG!!!)

[Tetsuo_man]

ON the whole no cleavage hole rule. What if it's a Power girl homage character?

[Stressfactor]

I don't see a problem with a skirt as long as she's wearing excersize shorts under it. Some of the more recent depictions of Supergirl have this and I think it's fine. They give full coverage so it isn't a "panty shot".

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Storm strolled around with tall high boots for decades.

A good artist can pull anything off, really.

Even skirts of flyers.

[ScottyQuick]

Storm strolled around with tall high boots for decades.

Y'know, I wasn't going to post here, but wow. You're right. How did I not notice that?

[BnL]

Storm strolled around with tall high boots for decades.

A good artist can pull anything off, really.

Even skirts of flyers.

I bet YOU'D like to pull off the skirts of fliers.

Pervert.

[scout1279]

I like skirts on superheroines and don't really understand what's wrong with them. I never assume that they're just wearing panties under them. They're like figure skater costumes.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

I effin' adore skirts on superheroines. I ASSUME they're wearing more than panty underneath. If it's good enough for tennis pros, it's good enough for heroines.

Honestly, Mary Marvel should never 'SHAZAM' herself into gym shorts.

[Mermaid]

Not enough mermaid super heroines if you ask me *hrmph*

[Henker]

DON'T: -permanently scar her (see above)

Lies, Batgirl has proven that scars are sexy.

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2432/pic019a.jpg

[Pink Bat Maxine]

Not enough mermaid super heroines if you ask me *hrmph*

Lori Lameris and Mera should make babies.

[veracity]

Not enough mermaid super heroines if you ask me *hrmph*

Well, you've got MaryJanice Davidson's bitter Fred the Mermaid, though...not a comic.

[Mermaid]

Lori Lameris and Mera should make babies.


me and who now? :eek:

[Henker]

Don't wear earrings (especially hoop earrings) unless you want your earlobes ripped out.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

me and who now? :eek:

Lori Lameris was for a brief time Clark Kent's college sweetie.... she was in a wheelchair with a blanket over her lap. The reveal was that she was a mermaid. She showed up a lot in the Silver Age and spotally since. Mera is Aquaman's wife. She has legs but also powers.

In fairness, I could have tossed Jerro, the mer-boy into the mix. He courted Wonder Girl back when she was Diana, not Donna.

Also, IIRC, Namora was referred to sometimes as a mermaid. She had legs though.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

Don't wear earrings (especially hoop earrings) unless you want your earlobes ripped out.

That's one of the first things they tell you at my job.

[Mermaid]

Lori Lameris was for a brief time Clark Kent's college sweetie.... she was in a wheelchair with a blanket over her lap. The reveal was that she was a mermaid. She showed up a lot in the Silver Age and spotally since. Mera is Aquaman's wife. She has legs but also powers.

In fairness, I could have tossed Jerro, the mer-boy into the mix. He courted Wonder Girl back when she was Diana, not Donna.

Also, IIRC, Namora was referred to sometimes as a mermaid. She had legs though.

ohhhhh...thanks Maxi

[Beacon]

I’m absolutely for the idea of short skirts on heroines. A distracted villain is an easily defeated villain.

It still shouldn’t be a so short that it becomes a belt though.

[The Ray]

Lori Lameris and Mera should make babies.

Mera did and that kid ended up dead.

[Dragonflye]

Thigh High boots

http://sexualityinart.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/4-50.JPG

[Linkara]

I’m absolutely for the idea of short skirts on heroines. A distracted villain is an easily defeated villain.

It still shouldn’t be a so short that it becomes a belt though.

Men are not simple machines that go into drooling idiots when they see boobs. At best you have a momentary distraction before they just start shooting anyway. If you're running/flying/leaping/etc. at them and they think you're going to beat the shit out of you, they'll let loose with the bullets regardless of how sexy you are.

As for miniskirts, I don't mind as long as they have shorts under them, but a lot of artists apparently don't agree.

[Arrogantcur]

Lies, Batgirl has proven that scars are sexy.

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2432/pic019a.jpg

I'd hit that. :smile:

[Beacon]

Men are not simple machines that go into drooling idiots when they see boobs. At best you have a momentary distraction before they just start shooting anyway. If you're running/flying/leaping/etc. at them and they think you're going to beat the shit out of you, they'll let loose with the bullets regardless of how sexy you are.

As for miniskirts, I don't mind as long as they have shorts under them, but a lot of artists apparently don't agree.


You’d think that I could make that comment in the forum for the writer that wrote “that one Giganta scene” in the Atom without having people taking it TOO seriously. ;-)

Still, I suppose I’ll take the bait and point out that most superheroines are supposed to be skilled enough at fighting (and stealth and/or speed and/or evasion) that a “momentary distraction” is all they need. It might not work on a competent villain but I’m sure the average straight male mugger is going to be too busy ogling Black Canary’s fishnet-covered legs to be ready when one of them hits him with a high kick.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

Men are not simple machines that go into drooling idiots when they see boobs. At best you have a momentary distraction before they just start shooting anyway. If you're running/flying/leaping/etc. at them and they think you're going to beat the shit out of you, they'll let loose with the bullets regardless of how sexy you are.

As for miniskirts, I don't mind as long as they have shorts under them, but a lot of artists apparently don't agree.

Also, some men are gay.

Also, some villians are women.

Also, some of the women villians are straight.

Also a straight male villian who can be distracted by a skirt probably isn't gonna go far in his chosen field of villianny. And he could probably be handled by any street cop with a centerfold.

[Arrogantcur]

A couple of gay villains: Cannon and Saber (http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2008/10/09/thursday-whos-who-cannon-and-saber/).

They wouldn't be distracted by Black Canary. :wink:

[titanfan]

-give her long hair. she can only have short hair after you've captivated her audience with her long hair first.

Agreed 100% on this. I know short hair is more practical for crimefighting, but long hair and not being totally hideous is a plus. I would read Manhunter and want to shout to Kate Spencer: "Grow out your hair!"

Pretty much the only superheroines I like with shorter hair are Katana and Oracle--and both started with longer hair initially....

[Melbourne Mew Mew]

* Skirts (http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/11275/265806-52172-supergirl.jpg): On flyers especially, but also on the more street level, how lame must it be to knock out a guy with a boner because he thought he saw something :P

There's somebody who'd like a word with you on that subject...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p263/ajdynon/motivator7245457.jpg

[Pink Bat Maxine]

Agreed 100% on this. I know short hair is more practical for crimefighting, but long hair and not being totally hideous is a plus. I would read Manhunter and want to shout to Kate Spencer: "Grow out your hair!"

Pretty much the only superheroines I like with shorter hair are Katana and Oracle--and both started with longer hair initially....

Hair? HAIR? Really?

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Agreed 100% on this. I know short hair is more practical for crimefighting, but long hair and not being totally hideous is a plus. I would read Manhunter and want to shout to Kate Spencer: "Grow out your hair!"

Pretty much the only superheroines I like with shorter hair are Katana and Oracle--and both started with longer hair initially....


Personaly, Wonder Woman and Storm nonwithstanding, I prefer my women with short hair.

It´s probably a quirk on my wiring, my theory is that growing up I always had a crush on older women who tend to favour short, practical hair.

You´re gonna get a kick outta this, but the main reason why I like Powergirl is not because of the watermelons or the legs that go all the way up but because when I was first introduced to the character, she had this absolutely cute short haircut that made me go "- Aww..."

[Pink Bat Maxine]

Personaly, Wonder Woman and Storm nonwithstanding, I prefer my women with short hair.

It´s probably a quirk on my wiring, my theory is that growing up I always had a crush on older women who tend to favour short, practical hair.

You´re gonna get a kick outta this, but the main reason why I like Powergirl is not because of the watermelons or the legs that go all the way up but because when I was first introduced to the character, she had this absolutely cute short haircut that made me go "- Aww..."

Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!! I thought I was the only one!

Mooney's Supergirl had the most adorable 'do as well. Short and girly.

[Paradox]

Melbourne Mew Mew scares me:

There's somebody who'd like a word with you on that subject...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p263/ajdynon/motivator7245457.jpg

That's not "badass", that's horribly horribly Freudian! :eek:

[thehod]

High Heels: WTF? who can fight in High Heels?

Black Canary can...

http://www.heromachine.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/flashblackcanary.JPG

[Arrogantcur]

Black Canary can...

http://www.heromachine.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/flashblackcanary.JPG

Haha, touche! Who wrote that?

[thehod]

Haha, touche! Who wrote that?

Mark Waid.

[Arrogantcur]

Mark Waid.

http://www.gangsterbb.net/emoticons/clap.gif There needs to be a "Mark Waid Is Awesome (But you already knew that)" thread.

[Paradox]

Heh, yeah that was one of the funnier bits of JLA: Year One (which had quite a few funny bits). :biggrin:

[Dazzler]

I respectfully disagree with the "nothigh high boots" thing. Storm rocked that shit back in the day. She, alone, makes them awesome.

--Dazz

[K-DoG7p7]

Black Canary can...

http://www.heromachine.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/flashblackcanary.JPG

yes but if there is one thing we know about dinah.. its that she always regrets her old costume choices :P

[Paradox]

She might actually be regretting it there, but she ain't takin' that crap from a guy with handles on his head. :biggrin:

[PatrickG]

Skirts rock and I see them as a cosmetic part of the tradition almost as much as capes. If you start making costumes TOO practical, you aren't doing super-heroes anymore, you're doing people with super-powers in athletic gear.

IMO, it's all about the class and contour of the design. A good super-hero costume has maybe three colors in it, low detail, doesn't demand a particular art style (it should remain simple enough to remain intact whether it's being illustrated by a Sunday funnies style artist, a manga artist, a 90s cross hatch fiend, a photo realistic tracer, 70s Marvel House style, Bruce Timm "animated" style, Tim Sale or Frank Miller's sketch and ink blot approaches, etc.) and genre specific flourishes that trace their roots back to 1940s athletes and circus performers.

In terms of thigh highs, I think thigh highs + thong are overdone to the point of fetish.

But thigh highs in general are a fine way to create the geometric design of a super-hero costume, which is essentially (aside from capes, skirts, boots and gloves), the only thing that keeps super-heroes from looking like anatomically deficient Barbie/Ken-style nudes.

Thigh highs work. Thigh highs + swim suits? Eh... I think that only works if the character is intentionally sexing themselves up, whether male or female.

But I always thought Parallax, Extant, Deadpool, Storm and Phoenix all rocked the thigh high boot look without delving into boot fetish territory.

Thigh highs + bikini seem weird. Thigh highs as a geometric design can add a pirate-like flair or be a nice costume alternative to briefs for a simple geometry that makes the legs stand out from the torso, even in low detail panels.

You know why Super Mario wears overalls? Because it made his arms stand out in 8 bit sprite form.

A good super-hero costume has that kind of sensibility, allowing you to see a character's pose and sense of action even when they're a low detail figure in the background.

[Adam C]

Personally I'd just settle for all superhero comic artists learning how to give their characters a realistic bust, waist line, and dispense with those heels. (What was Alex Ross thinking when he whipped up that Batwoman costume?) That alone would be a major step forward (as sad of a fact as it is).


Personaly, Wonder Woman and Storm nonwithstanding, I prefer my women with short hair.

...as do I. It is so hawt...

[suedenim]

I effin' adore skirts on superheroines. I ASSUME they're wearing more than panty underneath. If it's good enough for tennis pros, it's good enough for heroines.


Right! I don't see why people assume Supergirl's wearing something significantly different from what a cheerleader, tennis player, or figure skater might wear, most of whom "fly" to some extent.

[The Ray]

We need more BBW superheroines. We have Amanda Waller, but…eh. We need more big beautiful hotness.

[Arrogantcur]

We need more BBW superheroines. We have Amanda Waller, but…eh. We need more big beautiful hotness.

They'd probably need to have powers that don't require them to be in good shape (telepathy, for instance) or they'd need to be BBW due to muscle mass rather than fat.

With somebody like Wondy or Supergirl, they're not always drawn with muscles (although they should be, and have been drawn that way without making them look masculine or anything) but a woman who keeps herself in shape without seriously bulking up has the same approximate build as most pictures I've seen of those two.

[shrike]

I'm still waiting for male super heroes to start sporting some more flesh. Not that I'd want it, but would be funny.

[K-DoG7p7]

I'm still waiting for male super heroes to start sporting some more flesh. Not that I'd want it, but would be funny.

like Namor? or
Tyroc?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/21/Tyroclosh.jpg

Mike Grell should design all character from now on :P

[The Ray]

They'd probably need to have powers that don't require them to be in good shape (telepathy, for instance) or they'd need to be BBW due to muscle mass rather than fat.

With somebody like Wondy or Supergirl, they're not always drawn with muscles (although they should be, and have been drawn that way without making them look masculine or anything) but a woman who keeps herself in shape without seriously bulking up has the same approximate build as most pictures I've seen of those two.

Yeah. If the character is powerless, then they should stay in Olympic level physical conditioning (which doesn't mean waifer thin either), but if you can lift a truck without a problem then I wouldn't mind seeing different body types on different characters.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I'm still waiting for male super heroes to start sporting some more flesh. Not that I'd want it, but would be funny.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8580/namor.gif

http://www.gistudios.com/images/Artists/Atkins/Marvel_Hulk.jpg
http://namtab.com/jla/contestvartox.gif

http://www.marveldirectory.com/pictures/individuals/k_1d/kazar.gif

[Henker]

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3886/cosmicboygrell.jpg

[thehod]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/flex_mentallo/flexmentall.jpg

[shrike]

None of those are REAL superhero outfits until they creep up the asscrack.. at least thats what Ed Benes taught me.

[Paradox]

suedenim makes me ask:

Right! I don't see why people assume Supergirl's wearing something significantly different from what a cheerleader, tennis player, or figure skater might wear, most of whom "fly" to some extent.

My question is why the "spanky pants" that cheerleaders, tennis players or figure skaters wear is considered any freakin' different than underwear. You see exactly the same amount of flesh and contour (unless the undies in question are a thong or something).

[K-DoG7p7]

Igle has deliberatly drawn Supergirl with what looks like shorts under her skirt.. while every one else seems to have gone a more... thong like direction..

[Corrina]

My question is why the "spanky pants" that cheerleaders, tennis players or figure skaters wear is considered any freakin' different than underwear. You see exactly the same amount of flesh and contour (unless the undies in question are a thong or something).

Well, the way some of these are drawn, it's definitely implied there's nothing under the skirt. Or, if there is, it's a thong.

Heck, a number of superheroines are drawn with thongs already, if they're wearing bodysuit costumes.

[scout1279]

Igle has deliberatly drawn Supergirl with what looks like shorts under her skirt.. while every one else seems to have gone a more... thong like direction..

Guedes drew her with shorts under the skirt also.

[K-DoG7p7]

Guedes drew her with shorts under the skirt also.

at Tonys request yes.. so Igle is not alone thats true.. but its only those two that do that..

[Paradox]

Corrina diverts:

Well, the way some of these are drawn, it's definitely implied there's nothing under the skirt. Or, if there is, it's a thong.

Heck, a number of superheroines are drawn with thongs already, if they're wearing bodysuit costumes.

That wasn't really what I was asking, though. I was speaking generally, not about comic art.

[Beacon]

We need more BBW superheroines. We have Amanda Waller, but…eh. We need more big beautiful hotness.

I’ve always kind of had a soft spot for the Golden Age Red Tornado. She was sort of the Rosie the Riveter of superheroines. Of course – since she’s one of the few GA heroes that hasn’t been kept young by magic/powers/timetravel/ect – the best we can hope for out of her now is “badass grandma” and most writers treat her like a joke if they remember her at all.

[suedenim]

I’ve always kind of had a soft spot for the Golden Age Red Tornado. She was sort of the Rosie the Riveter of superheroines. Of course – since she’s one of the few GA heroes that hasn’t been kept young by magic/powers/timetravel/ect – the best we can hope for out of her now is “badass grandma” and most writers treat her like a joke if they remember her at all.

She's actually pretty spry for someone who, logically, should be pushing triple digits in age by now (chances are a woman already being called "Ma" in 1940 wasn't all that young even then....)

[JKCarrier]

I’ve always kind of had a soft spot for the Golden Age Red Tornado. She was sort of the Rosie the Riveter of superheroines.

I would really like to see a modern-day version of Red Tornado. A big, burly inner-city mom who gets fed up with the gangs running the neighborhood (and the incompetent/corrupt police who let it happen). She puts on a makeshift costume and goes out to clean up the streets. That's about as primal a superhero concept as it gets. You could play it goofy or gritty. Tons of potential.