Final Crisis 7 Monthes later

[ANewHope]

I finally took the time and devoted my Friday evening to tackling this.

From my understanding, the Flashes brought Death upon Darkseid. They ran beyond time to take him out. Luthor gains control over what's left of the anti-life soliders, shows up and joins for the first time ever and helps Superman.

By freeing Wonder-Woman from the anti-life equation, it severed Darkseid's connection to everyone who was infected by the anti-life equation.

What's left of the heroes, work together to build the Miracle Machine from Superman's memory. Which releases the music of the Life Equation, reverting everyone who was infected back to normal.

But I was confused.... I know I'm missing part of the story. Who is Mandrak? We got this vampire God which would have been cool, but it literally came out of nowhere.

We have a scene where Superman approaches Metron's chair where he talks about "Element X", then suddenly the Vampire guy appeared.

I'm baffled from this point onward.

I thought the Green Laterns were trying to make it back to stop Darkseid. Why are they STaking the vampire and singing in unison!!!

Why were 50 alternate superman's gathered to take down Mandrak, I completely missed this sub-plot.

If anyone could explain or clear it up, that would be great.

[pryde15]

Didn't you already make this thread only to have it closed?

[ANewHope]

Umm.. Why was my first thread closed? Was it the wtf happened lol in the title? Because I think it represents my first opinion of final crisis 7 after reading it.

But if you actually read the post, it was well thought out

I couldn't find any other final crisis threads besides Infinite Crisis vs Final Crisis or Onslaught vs FInal Crisis threads.

There's no discussion whatsoever of this issue. none.

But if there is, then please bring it up, because I can't find any.

[ANewHope]

There's also the death of Bruce Wayne that I would consider is quite important.

At the end of final crisis 7, it looks like there's a silhouette of Batman in the prehistoric era. Don't ask me how this happened.

But there's so much that could be examined and no one has bothered to. I would have never found out about the Doctor Hurt being the Devil in Batman Rip unless everyone had analyzed it and taken it apart.

[Calybos]

Just treat it like an Elseworlds story. No explanations are needed because none of it really happened and it will have zero consequences in the ongoing titles.

[ANewHope]

Just treat it like an Elseworlds story. No explanations are needed because none of it really happened and it will have zero consequences in the ongoing titles.

And what exactly was the Final Crisis? Was it the end of the Celestial's interfering with the multiverse? It took one of them being exiled to Earth to discover what.... the meaning of life?

It isn't really clear what happened and what didn't happen. Was it the character waking up in his sleep? Who started as a fast food employee and became the Judge of all Evil? It's the story of the Final Crisis.

So what actually happened? And how much of it was temporary?

Batman did die right?? LoL so confusing.

[rabidpete]

Batman is lost in time, Dr Hurt is not the devil! RIP and Final Crisis were completely non-sensical, but it's ok 'cos it's Grant Morrison and it's supposed to be like that.

[Red_Knight]

But I was confused.... I know I'm missing part of the story. Who is Mandrak? We got this vampire God which would have been cool, but it literally came out of nowhere.

In short, Mandrak was the first Monitor to ever explore the Multiverse. However, he got addicted to and corrupted by his desire for "stories", i.e. the life of the characters.

We have a scene where Superman approaches Metron's chair where he talks about "Element X", then suddenly the Vampire guy appeared.

Basically, that was the DCU's interpretation of the devil climbing up from hell to end the world. When Mandrak shows up in FC#7, the DCU is pretty much destroyed. Earth has been devastated by Anti-Life, and both time and space have quite literally collapsed. The few remaining heroes experience what Superman refers to a "Cosmic Midnight". At this point, Mandrak has consumed pretty much all there is. Now, he appears to claim Superman as his final prize.


I thought the Green Laterns were trying to make it back to stop Darkseid. Why are they STaking the vampire and singing in unison!!!

That's really up to interpretation, but the way I read it, the GLs never made it back to Earth to confront Darkseid due to the time-space distortation his rise caused. Instead, thanks to Nix Uaton, they showed up at just the right moment to take on Mandrak. Also, they aren't singing; -- they are reciting the GL pledge.

Why were 50 alternate superman's gathered to take down Mandrak, I completely missed this sub-plot.

FC really comes down to symbolism. It's good vs. evil, life vs. anti-life, story vs. end. In the DCU, the ultimate symbol of goodness and hope is Superman. So, within the context of FC, Mandrak is pretty much his ultimate opposite, -- the final symbol for darkness and greed. Superman, the first comic book hero, is "story"; Mandrak , who prolongs his life by sucking the life out of everything, is "end. So, IMHO, it makes perfect sense for the Supermen of the Multiverse to gather in order to take on this ultimate evil.

If you want to know more about Mandrak and the Supermen of the Multiverse, make sure you get Superman Beyond. It's 2 extra-sized issues, written by Morrison, and really pretty much essential to the overall story of FC.

Hope that helps.

[ANewHope]

I'm going to have to hunt down those issues. Superman Beyond. Thanks Red Knight.

And one last thing, if Doctor Hurt isn't the Devil, how did he know that Batman wouldn't make it back? That sounds pretty omniscient to me.....

[Red_Knight]

I'm going to have to hunt down those issues. Superman Beyond. Thanks Red Knight.

And one last thing, if Doctor Hurt isn't the Devil, how did he know that Batman wouldn't make it back? That sounds pretty omniscient to me.....

Note: "The" devil is not omniscient. He just has limited supernatural powers. Not really important in this context, but my inner Christian demands I set this right. :tongue:

Anway, Dr. Hurt was the devil. Morrison has plainly said so. That was his intention. It´s just that some folks don't want to see it that way.

[ANewHope]

Now I can focus on my accounting class. Final Crisis was driving me nuts lol.

I can move on with life and sleep peacefully. Thanks

[T Hedge Coke]

It's probably worth noting that Mandrakk coming out of virtually nowhere in-series and the treatment of the Monitors' narrative as tangential is important to what Final Crisis is dealing with, the nature of stories. That was Superman's story and we weren't there for it (if we were just following one through seven of FC). We want the full arcs, the lead ins, the follow-through, but life isn't like that, life, personal experience, intersects with other people's narratives all the time, you don't always get an asterisk and footnote explaining what back issue of another series your boyfriend started cheating on you or terrorists began their plan to blow up a subway tunnel.

By issue seven, stories are intersecting like mad and we're put in the context of the characters involved, none of whom have a complete picture on the fly, but like us, the survivors can pretty much piece together the whole.

"None of it really happened" doesn't actually mean anything. It's a fictional story. In the story, what was in the panels happened. In the greater DCU of current continuity, well, yes, it happened, and the fallout's already hitting the bat-titles.

"Nonsensical" implies there isn't a narrative thread you can logically follow, and that's simply not true. You can map the thing A to B through to Z. And there's a thematic pattern and resonance being established - at the most basic, good vs evil, at more involved level there's the nature of story vs the neurotic lockdown and restraint of the continuity-mad, or as blatant as just because everyone tells you there's no hope, there's always hope - and using the word nonsensical implies no effort (much less competence) on the part of any of the storytellers involved. The writer clearly had intent and took care to achieve that intent. The artists were obviously trying to represent certain visuals, settings, people and events, in their drawings. The colorist wasn't randomly selecting colors, but plainly knows what colors Superman's costume should be. The letterer... well, there was the weird cannot-do-German-fonts bit, but mostly, those are real words, presumably the ones the writer wrote to be placed there, and they make sentences and meaning.

You don't have to like the comic, you don't have to enjoy the techniques being employed, and it may bother you that it's in current continuity, but those aren't reasons to presume it's nonsensical because you can't remember what happened issue to issue or you simply don't like what happened. I don't like what happened to Barbara Gordon some years ago in an Alan Moore comic, and I don't care for most of the techniques they employed in that comic narratively and artistically (I don't hate them, either), but I accept The Killing Joke has ramifications in other books and events in that shared universe, and that there was intent and it wasn't just a juxtaposition of random scribbles and automatic writing.

[rabidpete]

Note: "The" devil is not omniscient. He just has limited supernatural powers. Not really important in this context, but my inner Christian demands I set this right. :tongue:

Anway, Dr. Hurt was the devil. Morrison has plainly said so. That was his intention. It´s just that some folks don't want to see it that way.

Really? I'de like to read that. Where can I find that interview?