CBR: LiveJournal Shuts Down Scans_Daily

[CBR News]

The popular online comics community Scans_Daily has been suspended by host
LiveJournal for publishing copyrighted materials without permission, a necessary
function of the community. CBR's blogs ROBOT 6 and Comics Should Be Good
report.


Full article here (http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=20241).

[Cayman]

Does anyone honestly believe Marvel and their legal department weren't aware of Scans Daily before Peter David reported it?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Does anyone honestly believe Marvel and their legal department weren't aware of Scans Daily before Peter David reported it?

From whats been said by David , Marvel didn't even have to alert the legal department before it was shut down. :wink:

[Elegance Liberty]

I can't say I'll miss the drama and the snark, but damn...

[Mr Omnis]

There goes another one of the many places that helped get me into comics.

[Ebon]

Hopefully it will resurface somewhere more stable than insanejournal. I bought a lot of new books because of that site. Recently, they were posting some of the classic Creepy stories which has really motivated me to buy those Creepy Archives that are coming out.

[chaosakita]

No! Where else am I going to find my wonderful subtext!

[Athena Bast]

There's a part of me that thinks it's going to be illegal to sit in a room with your friends and a long box and read comics and show them the cool or dumb stuff someone in the book just did.

[Radioactive Zombie]

Eh, 4chan's /rs/ can't be stopped.

[Joe Acro]

It will come back in some form. Either those behind scans_daily will rebuild it themselves or some other site will come in and fill the void.

And I hope it does come back. It's a great resource for killing time, checking out stuff I might not normally, and reviewing some things read before (without the need for pulling out a box of comics).

[Matt Algren]

There's a part of me that thinks it's going to be illegal to sit in a room with your friends and a long box and read comics and show them the cool or dumb stuff someone in the book just did.
Oh come on. Sitting in a room with friends is not the same as illegally republishing a book that came out a couple hours ago. It's just not even close to the same thing.

Scans_Daily is dead. Fuck 'em. (http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/scans_daily-is-dead-fuck-em/2009/02/28/)

[Radical_dreamer]

Maybe it's unfair of me but I'm inclined to blame Peter David- especially with his latest "DON'T SPOIL MAH COMICS. I AM RELEVANT" windmill-chase. This is the absolute height of silliness- the scans occurred on Wednesday-Thursdays, guidelines were enforced, and I picked up many a books because of their scans. It's like the guy just discovered the internet two months ago and decided to make a fuss.

At worst it lessened my incline to pick up crappy books to the same extent that flipping through a book does in a comicshop. It's genuinely silly. There were even creators who used the site themselves - Warren Ellis comes to mind, and it was always a forum for discussion.

Hate to break it to you but if people want to read your comics online- there are much simpler ways than to browse through scans and discussions of books on S_D.

This is quite literally the equivalent of removing 30-second streaming sound clips of songs from Amazon. Kudos on chasing down the enemy. :rolleyes:

[Matt Algren]

Prediction: Sales will not drop one percent because Scans_Daily shut down. Because people who claim that they bought a lot of books after they stole them are lying.

[Radical_dreamer]

Fact: Sales won't raise a decimal either because they decided to shut down S_D.

Again I tell you that those who steal comicbooks online because they do not want to purchase them do NOT use s_D.

[Ryan Day]

This is quite literally the equivalent of removing 30-second streaming sound clips of songs from Amazon.

Not, it's not literally the equivalent, or even figuratively the equivalent, because Amazon is a distributor which (presumably) is licensed to provide samples.

It's not the equivalent of banning libraries or browsing in bookstores or loaning books to your friend. It's about reproducing material without the right to do so or any sort of relationship with the owner of the material.

[littleredhat]

Hack Slash, X-Factor, Tarot Witch of the Black Rose, Madame Mirage,Blue Beatle. These are what I found on Scans Daily and these are what are in my long boxes now.

I'll miss the subtext,the crack,the contextless panels and the porn weeks.

[Charles RB]

illegally republishing a book

Which comics did scans_daily fully republish?

[howyadoin]

Oh come on. Sitting in a room with friends is not the same as illegally republishing a book that came out a couple hours ago. It's just not even close to the same thing.I'm kinda surprised it didn't fall under fair use, or the "scholarly review" loophole.

[GozertheGozarian]

I'm kinda surprised it didn't fall under fair use, or the "scholarly review" loophole.
Hard to justify posting 11 pages as fair use.

[Charles RB]

What number of pages does count as fair use?

[Matt Algren]

Hard to justify posting 11 pages as fair use.
...on the same day as the book is released.

I mean, jeez. Just own up to it, people.

[Ryan Day]

I would tend to associate "fair use" with a review, news story, or perhaps a text book. An example of the thing being talked about.

Whereas SD, from what I saw, didn't actually have any content of its own - it was just "here's a neat comic book".

[Athena Bast]

Hack Slash, X-Factor, Tarot Witch of the Black Rose, Madame Mirage,Blue Beatle. These are what I found on Scans Daily and these are what are in my long boxes now.

I'll miss the subtext,the crack,the contextless panels and the porn weeks.

gosh, that reminds me, I'm never going to find out how that He-Man porn comic ends.

[skeetsHD]

I agree that scans_daily blatantly broke copyright regulations, and I'm shocked it lasted as long as it did. I actually said "yes!" out loud when I saw the headline.

There may be a gray line with torrents, irc, dc++, etc, but you can't post 50-100% of a comic on a web page and expect to get away with it.

Creepy "slash" warning or not.

[Corrina]

There's a part of me that thinks it's going to be illegal to sit in a room with your friends and a long box and read comics and show them the cool or dumb stuff someone in the book just did.

It depends. Can you fit thousands of people into that room? :)

[Michael P]

gosh, that reminds me, I'm never going to find out how that He-Man porn comic ends.

Skeletor?

Hung like Battle Cat.

[Charles RB]

Then for Skeletor's sake, I hope Cringer wasn't neutered.

[Agent Helix]

It's amazing the things that people will get on a moral high horse about sometimes.

[AfghanAnt]

...on the same day as the book is released.

I mean, jeez. Just own up to it, people.

I've been to the site and I've only seen a few pages ever posted on the same day the book was released and I have to honestly say it made me go to the comic store and actually buy the comic or eventually buy it in tpb form. It is obvious you have no idea what you are talking about and if your blog is any indication of your ability to comprehend, I should just forgot any future snarky comments I'll direct toward your inevitable reply.


I agree that scans_daily blatantly broke copyright regulations, and I'm shocked it lasted as long as it did. I actually said "yes!" out loud when I saw the headline.

There may be a gray line with torrents, irc, dc++, etc, but you can't post 50-100% of a comic on a web page and expect to get away with it.

Creepy "slash" warning or not.

While I agree with your first statement (legally), your "gray line with torrents" is laughable as worse and offensive at best. You honestly believe torrenting comics is a gray area but posting 6 pages of a comic isn't?

As for PAD, I feel for him but I also think his comment come off as a writer scorn rather than protector of copywrites. I am sure if he received even half the love Warren, Gail, or Kurt received at S_D, he wouldn't have acted nearly as dickish.

[Matt Algren]

Are Teela, Evil-Lyn, and the Sorceress getting a scene?

[Athena Bast]

Are Teela, Evil-Lyn, and the Sorceress getting a scene?

I think Evil-Lyn and Shadow Weaver were just getting on when things shut down.

Queen Marlena though is totally having an affair with Orko though.

[Kid Omega]

It's amazing the things that people will get on a moral high horse about sometimes.

The conversations about this, all around the internerd, are IN-SANE.

Did anyone lose their job? No. Did anyone die? Nope. Will this affect comic sales, production, creation, etc etc? No fucking way.

The only thing that happened is that some free scans are gone. Why? Because they were illegally reproduced and broke TOS for the hosting sites and for LJ.

The outrage from pissed off folks is like a thirteen year old who gets mad at his father for grounding him. "I only set fire to one doghouse, Dad! YOU"RE BEING A DICK DAD!"

Grow up, people. Have some dignity.

[dupont2005]

I've been to the site and I've only seen a few pages ever posted on the same day the book was released and I have to honestly say it made me go to the comic store and actually buy the comic or eventually buy it in tpb form.

regardless of what it made you go do, that comic probably stated right in the indicia that reproduction is forbidden without permission of the owner. all they had to do was get the copyright owners on board with the website and skip the comics they couldn't get permission to post

[snarkbunny]

The outrage from pissed off folks is like a thirteen year old who gets mad at his father for grounding him. "I only set fire to one doghouse, Dad! YOU"RE BEING A DICK DAD!"


Okay, this made me laugh. Thank you for that.

[LiNo]

Don't they usually say "Except for review purposes, none of the contents of this publication may be reproduced..."? I thought of S_D largely as a mass-communal-review site.

Whether they be new releases (a minority of posts from my reckoning) or decades old issues (often unavailable in trade form) the site proved a valuable, largely harmless resource for fans old and new alike.

And let's be clear here - full issues were not permitted, and that rule was policed quite forcefully as the site altogether would be at risk. So there's no comparison to pirate bay or torrents or Napster.

[EmeraldCityArcher]

Have to say I was unaware of the site. However, it does sound like they'll simply need to get some clearences from the publisher for the reviews.

Retailers have been posting 5 page samples for years now.

As for PAD it doesn't surprise me a bit...nor does his reference to the Star Trek novel which goes back to the mid 90's when he and his life partner Harlon Ellison sued AOL over the posting of copyrighted material.

At the time I worked for the largest Stock Image company in the world and dealt with IP law all day. I wrote to CBG stating that the only reason they were going after AOL was because they had deep pockets and the kid in Russia who was posting the stuff didn't! Furthermore there going after AOL was the same as you suing the City because you were in a car accident and the person who hit you used a city road.

They then went on a weeks long attack of me and Ellison (in his usual manner) launched personal attacks against me accusing me of being of low moral character because my address was a UPS Store (Keeps the crazy's away Harlan!).

I actually offered to sit down with BOTH of them and listen to their point of view...I offered 9Through Maggie Thompson) to fly anywhere, anytime for the meeting but it seemed Harlan's schedule suddenly got full (I'm sure the backlash they received from CBG readers had NOTHING to do with it! ;)

[werehawk]

I was a big fan of scans_daily and while it did walk a thin line between not to put up too much of an issue (<50%) and copyright infringement, it did serve several functions. (BTW, what does constitute infringement if reviewers/previews put up 25% of a comic - 5-6 pages; should 25% have been the limit not 50%?).

The good for comics sales:
scans_daily was a venue where you could find out certain issues had villains or guest appearances that you like so you could buy the issue and read the whole story

previews (from Newsarama, CBR and IGN) were often posted alerting new readers

You could see if the comic is utter crap and choose not to buy bad comics thus decreasing the number of bad comics and bad art (e.g. LAAAAAAAAANNNND!)

The bad for comic sales:
Some mediocre stories people may have wanted to read some of but not buy the issue

Anthology comics: b/c short tales/backups could be reprinted in full, some people may not have bought the entire issue (that's assuming people would want to pay $3-4 for an 8 page story they wanted to read anyway).

[Typo Lad]

Previews are the responsibility of the companies, not some fan somewhere. A review would be one thing, not a synopsis.

[Grazzt]

Previews are the responsibility of the companies, not some fan somewhere. A review would be one thing, not a synopsis.

Eh, I think a synopsis or recap is perfectly okay. Look at Television Without Pity (http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/index.php). They give you a synopsis within a short while of a show airing, then a full recap (plus added snark) a couple of days later. The only real issue is the scans that go up alongside the synopsis.

I like mighygodking's take on the whole mess, it's a decent read and he's happy to tear into both sides. (http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/03/01/and-i-shall-call-it-dumbassopalooza-scans_daily-and-peter-david/#identifier_0_1156)

[Augusto]

Another one bites the dust.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I posted this on YABS yesterday , and Kurt Busiek answered back being cool as he usually is. But my question was , if Scans Daily wanted to ....why not try and work a deal like Youtube.com does in a way. Its there the music labels allow music videos and some networks allow TV shows . Couldn't a Scans Daily work a deal with Marvel & DC to allow them to post 3-5 pages of a comic with links to ordering it online or subscribing ?

[OverMaster]

I posted this on YABS yesterday , and Kurt Busiek answered back being cool as he usually is. But my question was , if Scans Daily wanted to ....why not try and work a deal like Youtube.com does in a way. Its there the music labels allow music videos and some networks allow TV shows . Couldn't a Scans Daily work a deal with Marvel & DC to allow them to post 3-5 pages of a comic with links to ordering it online or subscribing ?

I highly doubt it, mostly because both companies have their own webpages for it, and because both of them would demand exclusive arrangements anyway.

[americocaine]

who cares about the spoilers posted at this site when 90% of stories published these days are crap.

plus most of the entries that didnt deal with the latest issues were random entries that didnt make a lick of sense.

[Weapon Ick]

I'm lucky that I can afford to buy all the comics I want so I never read scans_daily for spoilers. I read it every day but I wasn't a member. I just really enjoyed the commentary and being exposed to new comics I didn't know about.

What I loved most about scans_daily was how I was never the only one to see pervy subtext in comics. S_D could find sex in just about any comic. So my question is does anyone know of another comic book forum that's like that? Something that isn't as "family friendly" as CBR?

[dupont2005]

Don't they usually say "Except for review purposes, none of the contents of this publication may be reproduced..."? I thought of S_D largely as a mass-communal-review site.

Whether they be new releases (a minority of posts from my reckoning) or decades old issues (often unavailable in trade form) the site proved a valuable, largely harmless resource for fans old and new alike.

And let's be clear here - full issues were not permitted, and that rule was policed quite forcefully as the site altogether would be at risk. So there's no comparison to pirate bay or torrents or Napster.

10 pages seems like more than review purposes. not that i don't understand how a 10 page preview could help sell a comic, the preview on myspace for the joker hardcover is what made me go buy it, but at the same time, the owners of the copyright have the final say. i like when i get to see a few interior pages before i buy a comic too, especially since i buy online. if the publisher does not want me to have a 10 page preview it's their call though

[zilch]

Yes, i download comics.

No, i don't download new comics (normally).

I download older stuff that can't be found elsewhere, like old Quality books, golden age DC stuff, ect.

I will not download something that i can buy in an affordable format. So until we get a Showcase featuring Tomahawk or a Sally O'Neil Policewoman Archive or a Human Bomb or Robotman Omnibus, i'll get em and enjoy em.

(And there are a lot of countries overseas that dont get English versions and downloading is just about the only way they can get them.)

[jlund]

(BTW, what does constitute infringement if reviewers/previews put up 25% of a comic - 5-6 pages; should 25% have been the limit not 50%?)

There are a bunch of requirements for what constitutes fair use, only one of them being the portion of the work. I know for text, that portion's usually 10% or 1,000 words, whichever is shortest (I don't know that there's actually a statute somewhere defining it, but that seems to be the standard most places I've seen). So even if you could make an argument for scans_daily based on the other requirements of fair use, 50% was almost certainly too much. I don't know how it works for comics, but assuming 10% is probably safe, which means with your average comic, you're talking maybe 2-3 pages. In aggregate. On top of that, though, there are TOS conditions by most hosting sites concerning copyrighted work, which may make one page too much.

On a cynical level, I think we all realize that this won't stop people from telling creators to die in a fire, or spoiling stories, or getting illegal scans. But I'm having a hard time understanding the outrage I've seen around the internets. Creators and publishers shouldn't be hated for trying to protect their copyrights.

[dupont2005]

I will not download something that i can buy in an affordable format.

well it don't get more affordable than free

[Matt Algren]

Yes, i download comics.

No, i don't download new comics (normally).

I download older stuff that can't be found elsewhere, like old Quality books, golden age DC stuff, ect.

I will not download something that i can buy in an affordable format. So until we get a Showcase featuring Tomahawk or a Sally O'Neil Policewoman Archive or a Human Bomb or Robotman Omnibus, i'll get em and enjoy em.

(And there are a lot of countries overseas that dont get English versions and downloading is just about the only way they can get them.)
You're a hero!

[lonewolf23k]

Well, Scans Daily didn't stay dead long. It just moved.

[Village Idiot]

As for PAD it doesn't surprise me a bit...nor does his reference to the Star Trek novel which goes back to the mid 90's when he and his life partner Harlon Ellison sued AOL over the posting of copyrighted material.

At the time I worked for the largest Stock Image company in the world and dealt with IP law all day. I wrote to CBG stating that the only reason they were going after AOL was because they had deep pockets and the kid in Russia who was posting the stuff didn't! Furthermore there going after AOL was the same as you suing the City because you were in a car accident and the person who hit you used a city road.

They then went on a weeks long attack of me and Ellison (in his usual manner) launched personal attacks against me accusing me of being of low moral character because my address was a UPS Store (Keeps the crazy's away Harlan!).

I actually offered to sit down with BOTH of them and listen to their point of view...I offered 9Through Maggie Thompson) to fly anywhere, anytime for the meeting but it seemed Harlan's schedule suddenly got full (I'm sure the backlash they received from CBG readers had NOTHING to do with it! ;)

Ellison won that case, though, didn't he? The court agreed with him, AOL was smacked down, and you were, ultimately, wrong. Congrats on that.

[liminal_lad]

Does anyone honestly believe Marvel and their legal department weren't aware of Scans Daily before Peter David reported it?

Peter David?

I always had a high opinion of him because of his writing until the day I commented on a board about an X-Factor plot reminding me of a television show's subplot. He made a jerky response and I apologized. I thought "Well, at least he interacts with his fans!" Then I read his anti-spoilers manifesto and thought "Well, it seems a little ridiculous but I guess I kind of get it..."

After reading this blog post, this it's hard for me to see him as anything other than a smug jerk who's amazing when he's good but also puts out a fair amount of crap, such as most of his She Hulk run and the last year of X-Factor. Ultimately, I should just enjoy his work and not think about the man behind it.

Reading this makes me like Gail Simone ever more though.

[liminal_lad]

Without annotated scan posts, how will we ever understand another Morrison epic?

[streator]

bummer. i would visit the site now and then to kill some time.

[mugiwara]

I don't know if it's related or not, but I can't access anymore to Peter David's blog. I directs me to the google research page everty time I try.
It's probably just me, but could somebody try to see if it works?
Thanks.

[liminal_lad]

I don't know if it's related or not, but I can't access anymore to Peter David's blog. I directs me to the google research page everty time I try.
It's probably just me, but could somebody try to see if it works?
Thanks.

I noticed that starting around 9:45(PST) last night -- it may have been overwhelmed by comments/traffic?

[BYC]

I generally blame internet for these things. People on the net get things far too easily and complain equally easily when those free things are taken away.

Companies going overboard doesn't help, but as the legal publisher, I forgiven them a bit more.

That being said, I'd happily steal when I'm on the webs as well. I just don't have a shitsstorm about it when it's closed to me.

[Michael P]

I don't know if it's related or not, but I can't access anymore to Peter David's blog. I directs me to the google research page everty time I try.
It's probably just me, but could somebody try to see if it works?
Thanks.
In what has to be a proof for the existence of God's sense of humor, there was a site update/overhaul scheduled for this weekend. The blog is now located at www.peterdavid.net.

[mugiwara]

In what has to be a proof for the existence of God's sense of humor, there was a site update/overhaul scheduled for this weekend. The blog is now located at www.peterdavid.net.

Oh. Thanks. To be honest I was begining to fear that some jackass crashed the site.

[worstblogever]

In all things, moderation.

Discussing an issue that comes out the same day, via review with a summary, is a summary.

With Marvel giving 5-7 pages of the comic away already for free in online previews, that leaves what, 15-17 more, on average? If scans daily was posting 10 or 11 pages of comics that came out that same day... well, damn. Maybe someone should step in.

There's discussion, and then there's just giving away someone's product for free.

I've been doing issue reviews/summaries on CBR now since I joined the site in 2006, and I have to say honestly, PAD asked a lot, for asking that no one, anywhere would discuss his latest X-Factor arc online. Someone, somewhere, was going to do it.

In the end, Scans Daily was apparently a place that felt they were above dialing it back, and that's where the axe fell. LJ isn't wrong for doing it when Marvel Legal went after him, and Marvel's in the right for defending their published materials. If fans want to find another way to get their comics online, maybe they should try finding out if there's another way to get 'em. If hulu.com is now a way to watch TV online... maybe there's a way to petition Marvel to follow suit on their website with a new downloadable comics. If they release them the day of publcation, though, they effectively end their print publication.

It's the same phenomenon that's killing the newspaper business, really. Is there a perfect solution, from a business standpoint? Apparently not. But S_d was over the line, to be sure.

[howyadoin]

Without annotated scan posts, how will we ever understand another Morrison epic?We could always try reading them.

[liminal_lad]

We could always try reading them.

I was mostly kidding, but I do seriously believe Final Crisis DID NOT work fully without annotated posts or access to Wikipedia. I suppose it would also work if you were a sixty-year-old with photographic memory who's read everything DC has ever published and has a PhD in the Philosophy of Science.

[Tony Bang]

I was mostly kidding, but I do seriously believe Final Crisis DID NOT work fully without annotated posts or access to Wikipedia. I suppose it would also work if you were a sixty-year-old with photographic memory who's read everything DC has ever published and has a PhD in the Philosophy of Science.

Or if you used those handy critical thinking skills.

[That JonoGuy]

Or if you used those handy critical thinking skills.

Why waste time doing that, when you get get someone else to do it for you.

[BYC]

My god, first S_D, now Pirate Bay!

These senseless attacks must stop! Where will I get my free comics?

[howyadoin]

I was mostly kidding...Fair enough. We've had many years of Morrison-bashing here at CBR, sometimes even from people who write for the site. And it's always of the penetrating and insightful "whoa, that guy must be on drugs! Am I right, fellas? Am I right?" variety.

Hence my response.

[Tony Bang]

My god, first S_D, now Pirate Bay!

These senseless attacks must stop! Where will I get my free comics?

Since internet theft is no longer available to us, we must learn from our elders and return to actual physical theft.

[That JonoGuy]

Since internet theft is no longer available to us, we must learn from our elders and return to actual physical theft.

I wonder what kind of statistics there are concerning the physical theft of comics. With the internet I wonder if people still go that route.

[BYC]

Regular theft will never go out of style. Scans aren't worth much money at this time, but books are, even if it's not much.

I vaguely remember reading on Yahoo or something that a "fine" copy of Action 1 is being sold, and it is expected to go for $30,000 or so.

[liminal_lad]

Or if you used those handy critical thinking skills.

Why waste time doing that, when you get get someone else to do it for you.

But you can't think critically without context -- It's like expecting Anthro to understand the importance of Metron's symbol -- he can intuitively grasp some of it, but he'd need to understand Fourth World super science to really get it. While he's not stupid, he still has the educational background of a cave man.

Final Crisis required a knowledge of the Fourth World, obscure DC characters and chaos or literary theory that most of us don't have -- without the internet or a Kirby omnibus, the context just isn't there.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Fair enough. We've had many years of Morrison-bashing here at CBR, sometimes even from people who write for the site. And it's always of the penetrating and insightful "whoa, that guy must be on drugs! Am I right, fellas? Am I right?" variety.

Hence my response.

Just because you understand it, doesn't mean it makes sense!

[Michael P]

I've been doing issue reviews/summaries on CBR now since I joined the site in 2006, and I have to say honestly, PAD asked a lot, for asking that no one, anywhere would discuss his latest X-Factor arc online. Someone, somewhere, was going to do it.


He never said don't discuss it. He said, don't spoil the ending. There was plenty in both issues 39 and 40 to discuss without giving away the ending to either issue.

[worstblogever]

He never said don't discuss it. He said, don't spoil the ending. There was plenty in both issues 39 and 40 to discuss without giving away the ending to either issue.

It's still a lot to hope. I mean, it's not quite sure those shocking twists are say, "Snape kills Dumbledore (http://pottercrash.ytmnd.com/)" but I see your point. It's still hard to discuss something, and hope the entire population of the world doesn't, well... spoil.

Especially in a thread marked, "Spoilers".

[StoneGold]

My god, first S_D, now Pirate Bay!

These senseless attacks must stop! Where will I get my free comics?

Pirate Bay is up, just really slow.

[dupont2005]

I was mostly kidding, but I do seriously believe Final Crisis DID NOT work fully without annotated posts or access to Wikipedia. I suppose it would also work if you were a sixty-year-old with photographic memory who's read everything DC has ever published and has a PhD in the Philosophy of Science.

sounds like something i'd rather just not read

[Kid Omega]

But you can't think critically without context -- It's like expecting Anthro to understand the importance of Metron's symbol -- he can intuitively grasp some of it, but he'd need to understand Fourth World super science to really get it. While he's not stupid, he still has the educational background of a cave man.

Final Crisis required a knowledge of the Fourth World, obscure DC characters and chaos or literary theory that most of us don't have -- without the internet or a Kirby omnibus, the context just isn't there.

You know, an awful lot of literature references stuff.

I guess that's as far as I want to go with this. But you might stay away from the TS Eliots or Pynchons of the world if Morrison is too confusing. Good grief...

[liminal_lad]

You know, an awful lot of literature references stuff.

I guess that's as far as I want to go with this. But you might stay away from the TS Eliots or Pynchons of the world if Morrison is too confusing. Good grief...

I actually studied English Lit -- there's a huge difference between "referencing stuff" and "requiring outside knowledge for comprehension." You can enjoy most literature without knowing its allusions -- knowing them just enhances your understanding and the appreciation -- but FC didn't make sense without knowing DC's full history, except for when you had to ignore continuity because it didn't fit into the story he wanted to tell.

But yeah, I'm tired of arguing about it too.

[Kid Omega]

I actually studied English Lit -- there's a huge difference between "referencing stuff" and "requiring outside knowledge for comprehension." You can enjoy most literature without knowing its allusions -- knowing them just enhances your understanding and the appreciation -- but FC didn't make sense without knowing DC's full history, except for when you had to ignore continuity because it didn't fit into the story he wanted to tell.

But yeah, I'm tired of arguing about it too.

Well, here we disagree. I know jack and shit about most DC comics, and I thought it was terrific.

[Angelophile]

In all things, moderation.

Discussing an issue that comes out the same day, via review with a summary, is a summary.

With Marvel giving 5-7 pages of the comic away already for free in online previews, that leaves what, 15-17 more, on average? If scans daily was posting 10 or 11 pages of comics that came out that same day... well, damn. Maybe someone should step in.

There's discussion, and then there's just giving away someone's product for free.

The rules, as they were, stated that posts could contain up to half an issue. That meant that if scans had already been posted from an issue, you had to include them in the total.

So, if someone made a post of 11 pages from a 22 page comic, no one else was allowed to make a post with the other 11 pages. 11 pages was the max, across multiple posts.

That included previews. If a 5 page preview had already been posted, or was available, only another 6 pages from that issue could be posted. Generally speaking, a fair number of posts were linking to official preview material anyway.

So, in theory, 17 pages of a 22 page comic couldn't be posted. The mods, and indeed members, were pretty hot on that. 11 pages total.

Now, back to the argument that 11 pages is beyond fair use anyway, but it's best to try and clarify that. Already people are stating that full issues were posted and that's not the case.

[liminal_lad]

Just an aside -- I got involved in the discussion at peterdavid.net -- I don't know if I've ever totally lost respect for anyone that quickly. Neocons, rabid fanboys and a creator with the biggest chip on his shoulder I have ever seen.

And X-Factor was so good! How does that work?!?

[howyadoin]

Just an aside -- I got involved in the discussion at peterdavid.net -- I don't know if I've ever totally lost respect for anyone that quickly. Neocons, rabid fanboys and a creator with the biggest chip on his shoulder I have ever seen.You haven't checked out Byrne Robotics yet?

[Paradox]

liminal_lad has a wonder:

And X-Factor was so good! How does that work?!?

Creative potential has little to do with one's actual personality, maybe? That's why I separate work from man. I even like a lot of Byrne's work, and there's no question he's a braying ass.

EDIT: Ha! Sort of kind of Coke to howy!