I lost. Jeph Loeb won.

[Deathspider1977]

Today marks the end of my love affair with the Hulk.

Make no mistake, I've loved the Hulk for over 20 years. My first issue of the Hulk was 329. You know, with the Rick Jones Hulk and the little gamma desert creatures that could talk and stuff. Of course, when I started noticing girls, the comics sort of took a backseat to all that, but I started actively collecting again back in 1996. Onslaught had just ended, and the Hulk was acting like a thug again, and Ben Reilly had just been killed (which caused a girlish squeal of outrage from me in the barracks of Delta Company, 1/503rd Infantry in Korea). When I moved to Fort Campbell, KY, Peter David was still chugging along with the Hulk, Spidey was on the downturn, I was getting into Azrael, Nightwing, and other such things. I officially started collecting again right at Hulk 447, the post Onslaught Hulk arc, where he was getting stronger than ever, but was dying without Banner inside of him.

I was dismayed when Peter David stepped off the title. Joe Casey was an inadequate replacement. And John Byrne was even worse, for a while in 1999, I considered dropping the title (along with Spidey), but I was picking it up anyway, in the hopes that it would get better. And it did, when Paul Jenkins stepped on the title.

I got out of the Army on September 10th, 2001. The next day the world went to hell. Bruce Jones stepped on the title.

Oh, and terrorists brought down the towers, too.

But the first year wasn't so bad. But it just dragged on. The covers were spectacular, but the stories... ah, the stories. Ugh. But like a man who knows his wife is cheating on him, but doesn't have the energy to get mad, I just kept picking up the title. After all... this couldn't last forever, right?

Then finally, Peter David came back, and effectively undone everything Jones did. Then Greg Pak did Planet Hulk, and World War Hulk. Things were looking up. In fact, it was pretty damn good. I was loving the Hulk again. When Hulk kicked Iron Man's ass, I whooped with glee. The Hulk was bad-ass again, he was at the forefront, he was large, in charge, smashing folks. Things were great.

Then... Marvel just ignored everything that happened in World War Hulk. And then this Red Hulk crap. Skaar was Conan meets Planet Hulk. That was okay. But the Hulk... Jeph Loeb took over, and it turned into... crap.

The Hulk has never really been about slugfests and cartoonish absurdity. Yes, the character is essentially absurd. And it's awesome when Hulk smashes. But there's a conceit of gravitas, a concept of how anger can overwhelm you, the consequences of anger, the underlying concept of how we all wish we could unleash and be a monster, but we see how becoming that monster can destroy everything in our lives. But this... this is ridiculous. It's not 'awesome stupid fun'. If I want that, I'll play Team Fortress 2. The dialogue is stupid, everything that happened before was thrown out in favor of ridiculous fights, Betty Harpies, Wendihulks, Watchers being punched, a Mary Sue villain, 'A-Bomb', and once again, Big Dumb Hulk.

Big Dumb Hulk is retarded. That's why Peter David rarely used it. Big Dumb Hulk is supposed to be a physical manifestation of the abused, confused, and angry rejected child. Not a moron.

So after collecting every issue from 298 to 475, Volume 2 1-116, and Volume 3 1-9, I'm done. After 12 years of constant collecting, no matter how bad the Hulk was written, how dull or dumb the storyline, no matter what, I've just had enough. The 3.99 pricetag isn't that much of a problem - I'm still riding with New Avengers and Dark Avengers, and I buy Avatar books, which arn't cheap either, but I refuse to continue buying this crap. It's not Big Dumb Fun. I know what Big Dumb Fun is. It's stupid, it's insulting, and it's not worth my money or my time any more.

I still love the Hulk, don't get me wrong. The Hulk is one of the coolest characters ever, and it's a damn shame what they've done with him. I mean, I hung on with Bruce Jones, but with JR jr and Mike Deodato, the art was at least good, and the covers with pretty much Art (with the capital A). The stories were crap, but I could at least, you know, lie to myself and still justify picking it up. John Bryne, well... at least the Hulk wasn't cancelled, and it didn't last TOO long. But after 12 years, I've just left the Hulk on the shelf.

I guess I'll wait until it becomes good again.

For all those who enjoy the title, God Bless ya. I won't insult your intelligence, or your taste, or whatever. You guys go ahead and enjoy it, after all, it's just a comic book. But until Marvel takes the Hulk somewhat seriously again, I'll pass.

Thanks for reading!

[Karl Cook]

I know what you mean. I dropped it after issue #6 for exactly the same reasons you've just listed.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Three words "Oh the HUMANITY!!!" That's when I knew that Loeb's Hulk wasn't for me. I'm not buying it any more.

[Kasper Cole]

I had to drop this title too. I gave it six issues and it just never improved. I used to really like Jeph Loeb work, but lately he's just been turning out the most predictable go nowhere crap. His version of Ultimates is a joke, his Wolverine run was boring, and his run on the Hulk has been an embarrassment.He's done better, he can do better, I expect better.

It's especially sad considering how GOOD Pak's run was.

[Stantheman23]

Today marks the end of my love affair with the Hulk.

Make no mistake, I've loved the Hulk for over 20 years. My first issue of the Hulk was 329. You know, with the Rick Jones Hulk and the little gamma desert creatures that could talk and stuff. Of course, when I started noticing girls, the comics sort of took a backseat to all that, but I started actively collecting again back in 1996. Onslaught had just ended, and the Hulk was acting like a thug again, and Ben Reilly had just been killed (which caused a girlish squeal of outrage from me in the barracks of Delta Company, 1/503rd Infantry in Korea). When I moved to Fort Campbell, KY, Peter David was still chugging along with the Hulk, Spidey was on the downturn, I was getting into Azrael, Nightwing, and other such things. I officially started collecting again right at Hulk 447, the post Onslaught Hulk arc, where he was getting stronger than ever, but was dying without Banner inside of him.

I was dismayed when Peter David stepped off the title. Joe Casey was an inadequate replacement. And John Byrne was even worse, for a while in 1999, I considered dropping the title (along with Spidey), but I was picking it up anyway, in the hopes that it would get better. And it did, when Paul Jenkins stepped on the title.

I got out of the Army on September 10th, 2001. The next day the world went to hell. Bruce Jones stepped on the title.

Oh, and terrorists brought down the towers, too.

But the first year wasn't so bad. But it just dragged on. The covers were spectacular, but the stories... ah, the stories. Ugh. But like a man who knows his wife is cheating on him, but doesn't have the energy to get mad, I just kept picking up the title. After all... this couldn't last forever, right?

Then finally, Peter David came back, and effectively undone everything Jones did. Then Greg Pak did Planet Hulk, and World War Hulk. Things were looking up. In fact, it was pretty damn good. I was loving the Hulk again. When Hulk kicked Iron Man's ass, I whooped with glee. The Hulk was bad-ass again, he was at the forefront, he was large, in charge, smashing folks. Things were great.

Then... Marvel just ignored everything that happened in World War Hulk. And then this Red Hulk crap. Skaar was Conan meets Planet Hulk. That was okay. But the Hulk... Jeph Loeb took over, and it turned into... crap.

The Hulk has never really been about slugfests and cartoonish absurdity. Yes, the character is essentially absurd. And it's awesome when Hulk smashes. But there's a conceit of gravitas, a concept of how anger can overwhelm you, the consequences of anger, the underlying concept of how we all wish we could unleash and be a monster, but we see how becoming that monster can destroy everything in our lives. But this... this is ridiculous. It's not 'awesome stupid fun'. If I want that, I'll play Team Fortress 2. The dialogue is stupid, everything that happened before was thrown out in favor of ridiculous fights, Betty Harpies, Wendihulks, Watchers being punched, a Mary Sue villain, 'A-Bomb', and once again, Big Dumb Hulk.

Big Dumb Hulk is retarded. That's why Peter David rarely used it. Big Dumb Hulk is supposed to be a physical manifestation of the abused, confused, and angry rejected child. Not a moron.

So after collecting every issue from 298 to 475, Volume 2 1-116, and Volume 3 1-9, I'm done. After 12 years of constant collecting, no matter how bad the Hulk was written, how dull or dumb the storyline, no matter what, I've just had enough. The 3.99 pricetag isn't that much of a problem - I'm still riding with New Avengers and Dark Avengers, and I buy Avatar books, which arn't cheap either, but I refuse to continue buying this crap. It's not Big Dumb Fun. I know what Big Dumb Fun is. It's stupid, it's insulting, and it's not worth my money or my time any more.

I still love the Hulk, don't get me wrong. The Hulk is one of the coolest characters ever, and it's a damn shame what they've done with him. I mean, I hung on with Bruce Jones, but with JR jr and Mike Deodato, the art was at least good, and the covers with pretty much Art (with the capital A). The stories were crap, but I could at least, you know, lie to myself and still justify picking it up. John Bryne, well... at least the Hulk wasn't cancelled, and it didn't last TOO long. But after 12 years, I've just left the Hulk on the shelf.

I guess I'll wait until it becomes good again.

For all those who enjoy the title, God Bless ya. I won't insult your intelligence, or your taste, or whatever. You guys go ahead and enjoy it, after all, it's just a comic book. But until Marvel takes the Hulk somewhat seriously again, I'll pass.

Thanks for reading!

How is the hulk one of the coolest characters ever?

[Kasper Cole]

How is the hulk one of the coolest characters ever?

Are you seriously going to argue this point? lol

[ComiXFanBoy]

i have to ask because im enjoying the title. if loeb is such a terrible writer why do his books sell so well?

(note: i dont pay much attention to the numbers but on all forums i frequent, people have stated that his books sell well)

[striderhirryu2]

Same reason Brittney Spears, Backstreet Boys, Nickelback, Creed and Milli Vanilli sell well. I'm sure no one considers their work good in any sense but there's a market for it.

[XPac]

i have to ask because im enjoying the title. if loeb is such a terrible writer why do his books sell so well?

(note: i dont pay much attention to the numbers but on all forums i frequent, people have stated that his books sell well)

I think the appeal of the book is obvious.

Great art complimenting action oriented stories with lots and lots of big fights.

It's a very simple formula that works pretty well for a Hulk book to a lot of readers.

The writing is simplistic (especially in contrast to the previous stuff), and at times suffers from questionable characterization and continuity. A lot of readers don't mind such flaws, hence the great sales.

[Kasper Cole]

i have to ask because im enjoying the title. if loeb is such a terrible writer why do his books sell so well?

(note: i dont pay much attention to the numbers but on all forums i frequent, people have stated that his books sell well)

Jeph Loeb is still a big name with a great reputation and he's been writing A list titles. Now don't get me wrong, I don't feel Jeph Loeb is a bad writer, he's just been writing badly for the past few years, sorry but there's been a huge drop in the quality of his writing since he's come back to Marvel..

[2-4-5_Trioxin]

Same here.

I picked it up for the first arc and it was god awfull. I couldnt find one thing about it I liked.

[artiepants]

sorry but there's been a huge drop in the quality of his writing since he's come back to Marvel..

i'm starting to think it's some kind of revenge/sabotage on DC's part for sending the Kuberts over on (presumably) expensive exclusives to draw, what 4-1/2 books in 2-3 years?:tongue:

[Kasper Cole]

i'm starting to think it's some kind of revenge/sabotage on DC's part for sending the Kuberts over on (presumably) expensive exclusives to draw, what 4-1/2 books in 2-3 years?:tongue:

To be fair one of them had health problems, and DC makes the mistake of trying to have artist draw monthlies/mini series and a ton of variant covers. I think that's what happened with Jones and Final Crisis.

[Libaax]

I feel for the thread maker.

I have read Hulk only since Greg Park started writing and even then i went "What the heck is this?" when i read Loeb's Hulk.

The day anyone else writes Hulk again i will be happy as alittle kid.

Lucky for me i can prolly find collections of old Hulk stories.

[edhopper]

Same here. My first Hulk artist was Herb Trimpe.
I read through last issue (only because of the Adams/Cho art). Looked at #10 in the store, sorry, I'm done.
You win Jeph.

[Kasper Cole]

I feel for the thread maker.

I have read Hulk only since Greg Park started writing and even then i went "What the heck is this?" when i read Loeb's Hulk.

The day anyone else writes Hulk again i will be happy as alittle kid.

Lucky for me i can prolly find collections of old Hulk stories.

As bad as Loeb's run has been, it's not the worst, not by a longshot IMO. The difference is just SO striking because the character was just previously used SO damn well by Pak.

[DeadXMan]

I never understood the "I hate this cause hulk is dumb again"

hey I like Joe and the professor
but Dumb hulk is what I grew up on.

The TV show: dumb Hulk
all the cartoons: dumb hulk
games: dumb hulk
movies: dumb hulk.

This is the most recognizable and profitably form of hulk for marvel. and it shows month in and month out as highest ranking non-event comic.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

i have to ask because im enjoying the title. if loeb is such a terrible writer why do his books sell so well?

(note: i dont pay much attention to the numbers but on all forums i frequent, people have stated that his books sell well)

Because casual readers will always pick up titles with a big character in them, regardless of quality, ahead of a much better written book featuring a lesser known character. This book launched around the time that a new (And pretty good) Hulk movie came out and on the surface looks pretty good. It's just a shame that the written product very quickly becomes clear to be inferior to so many other Marvel titles upon closer inspection.

But folks who only buy books with BIG NAME characters names on the cover probably don't realise that.

[DeadXMan]

maybe it actualy younger kids hot off of watching Incredible and Hulk vs that are reading Hulk?

when I went to see it there was a lot of kids with their geek parents.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

maybe it actualy younger kids hot off of watching Incredible and Hulk vs that are reading Hulk?

when I went to see it there was a lot of kids with their geek parents.

There's a fair chance. It's pretty much all the Hulk that's out there.

[Kasper Cole]

I never understood the "I hate this cause hulk is dumb again"

hey I like Joe and the professor
but Dumb hulk is what I grew up on.

The TV show: dumb Hulk
all the cartoons: dumb hulk
games: dumb hulk
movies: dumb hulk.

This is the most recognizable and profitably form of hulk for marvel. and it shows month in and month out as highest ranking non-event comic.

How can someone not like Savage Hulk, the others have been great but the Savage is the go to version.

Loeb's story was jus boring and dragging along. His book just isn't worth the effort or the money. And I had SUCH high hopes for seeing Ed and Jeph together again.:frown:

[Will.S]

I dropped this just recently as well.

As much as I like the art, I just can't support it on that basis alone and same goes for the rest of Loeb's books save for the Tim Sale drawn ones which usually end up good.

[ANewHope]

Umm... You're making a mistake. Hold out another 3 issues at least.

Because guess what? I didn't spoil this in it's own thread, but the Green Hulk for the time being, has his intelligence back!

And it looks like the Son of Skaar storyline will somehow awaken the Green Scar personality. It's a real possiblity. When the Hulk and his son Skaar meet up for the first time. Hang in there.

[Kasper Cole]

I dropped this just recently as well.

As much as I like the art, I just can't support it on that basis alone and same goes for the rest of Loeb's books save for the Tim Sale drawn ones which usually end up good.

I liked Loeb and Ed on Superman/Batman, and The Witching Hour was good. Hush was really good (till the last few issues).

[Libaax]

As bad as Loeb's run has been, it's not the worst, not by a longshot IMO. The difference is just SO striking because the character was just previously used SO damn well by Pak.

No i know its not the worst and not totally horrible.


But as a totally new Hulk fan i was excited for many more good Hulk stories with Pak and co.

I found Hulk interesting for the first time thats the real loss. I thought Hulk could be only stupid,one note character until i saw the general, the tragic one in Planet Hulk and other stories after it.

[XPac]

I liked Loeb and Ed on Superman/Batman, and The Witching Hour was good. Hush was really good (till the last few issues).

Honeslty, a lot of the time I thought Loeb had the exact same problems in Superman/Batman that he does in the Hulk books.

Big fun book with lots of action and big stars, but the storytelling is on the simplistic side and the characterization and continuity at times is questionable.

[stingerman]

Guess, you didn't pick up the latest iss of Skaar?

:biggrin:

[Kasper Cole]

Honeslty, a lot of the time I thought Loeb had the exact same problems in Superman/Batman that he does in the Hulk books.

Big fun book with lots of action and big stars, but the storytelling is on the simplistic side and the characterization and continuity at times is questionable.

I agree it was fun, big action, and simplistic story, but there main difference to me is that things happened in Superman/Batman, the first three issues of the Hulk it seemed like nothing happend. I mean it had a couple of neat reveals, but they mostly just left me thinking "Is that it?"

[worstblogever]

I feel for the O.P. and agree.

And I also feel for McGuiness, for being one of the best artists out there, and busting his *ss on some of the most one-dimensional storytelling I can recall. This stuff is Marvel Adventures-Worthy.

[sHayden]

I read an issue of Rulk once. that book makes adequate TP.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I feel for the O.P. and agree.

And I also feel for McGuiness, for being one of the best artists out there, and busting his *ss on some of the most one-dimensional storytelling I can recall. This stuff is Marvel Adventures-Worthy.

I completely agree.

[marshal99]

I feel for the O.P. and agree.

And I also feel for McGuiness, for being one of the best artists out there, and busting his *ss on some of the most one-dimensional storytelling I can recall. This stuff is Marvel Adventures-Worthy.

Nah , McGuiness is a long time partner of with Loeb - from his days in superman to superman/batman. He would have been used to it - Loeb still have big name value , that's all he has currently because he's been coasting on that rep for a long while now. Loeb is capable of writing good stories but don't think his heart is in it anymore , he's just taking the easiest route.

[Westgarth J]

Erm... confession time: I buy Hulk.

I never bothered with it beforehand, though I really liked Peter David's run towards the end (it was reprinted in a UK anthology), and the trade collections of the Pak stuff were okay - not so much the build-up to Planet Hulk (which was a bit pointless and dull), but PH and WWH were great fun. I still didn't buy them as individual issues, though.

Then I heard how bad the new Hulk was and checked it out. Like Onslaught Reborn before it, I now buy the title religiously, and though it doesn't surpass itself in entertaining awefulness with each issue like Reborn did, Hulk is still entertaining as knuckle-dragging spectacle, and doesn't pretend to be anything other than that.
Do I acknowledge it as being 'not good' in the traditional sense? Yes.
Do I still buy it and perpetuate the cycle of employment for Loeb? Also yes.
I suspect that a great deal of the sales for this title may also be for the same reason - this doesn't make these sales any less valid as a purchase, it just means that the audience for the book perhaps isn't composed of ignoramuses but of people who buy comics to be entertained one way or another.

These things come in cycles - the next writer to come along will undo what has been done here, or retcon Loeb's storyline into an alternate timeline or something like that. I think the original poster has the right idea of simply not buying the book if it isn't to his taste and coming back to the character when it's something he's interested in supporting financially. Otherwise, it doesn't seem worth it to get po'd at something so inconsequential as a comic book story - and it is just a story, as characters can die, become gay, get older, marry, have kids, go live in space or whatever, and within a couple of panels of a new writer's tenure that can all be undone like it never happened - sometimes literally if the 'alternate/rebooted timeline' storyline gets trotted out. Nothing is permanent in comics.
On the other hand, if you really feel the need to do something, make an effort to push people into buying one of Marvel's other titles instead of Hulk and try being constructive instead of simply hating. It'll be better for you in the long run.

[MathC]

First three issues were great. Dumb fun. But then it kept being dumb. I don't want a Hulk comic that is plunged into irrelevance and idiocy. I want a Hulk comic that is fun, relevant to what's hapenning in the marvel world and deeper than what it is right now, with the OCCASIONAL dumb Hulk story-arc.

I keep buying the title though because i still hope it'll get better, I want it to. But if Loeb does not fix his writting after the Defenders vs Offenders arc, I'll drop the title.

[DrDoom616]

i have to ask because im enjoying the title. if loeb is such a terrible writer why do his books sell so well?

(note: i dont pay much attention to the numbers but on all forums i frequent, people have stated that his books sell well)

This book sells so well because every issue has variant covers which a lot of people buy

[DrDoom616]

I never understood the "I hate this cause hulk is dumb again"

hey I like Joe and the professor
but Dumb hulk is what I grew up on.

The TV show: dumb Hulk
all the cartoons: dumb hulk
games: dumb hulk
movies: dumb hulk.

This is the most recognizable and profitably form of hulk for marvel. and it shows month in and month out as highest ranking non-event comic.

Yes, I agree that Dumb Hulk is the original and best known Hulk

But this drivel is not really about Hulk at all, it's about Rulk

Hulk is kind of a secondary character in his own book, which sucks.

[DeadXMan]

could it be that people like the book and don't post on forums?

[Kasper Cole]

could it be that people like the book and don't post on forums?


Pretty much. I don't fault anyone for liking the book, to each their own, but myself, someone who has been a life long Hulk Fan and a Jeph Loeb fan, I'm HIGHLY dissappointed. I'm actually more dissappointed by ths current hulk series than I was with Final Crisis.

[Zomling]

I know what you mean. I dropped it after issue #6 for exactly the same reasons you've just listed.

Likewise, although I think I lasted until #7.

Like the OP I've collected the Hulk for years (on and off since '77) but I've stopped, hopefully not forever, but at least until they get a decent creative team on the book.

[agrich]

I agree, but I'm a little surprised that this is the first time you've quit the book. The first issue I bought on the newsstands was 236; my run goes all the way back to the 150s. Since that time I've quit about four or five times, each time quite deservedly:

- When Byrne left, in the middle of a story, after issue 319. There was a year's worth of horrible, horrible issues in there with Al Milgrom (a fine inker, but..) doing the art and I have no idea who was writing it, if anyone. David didn't come on until 330, turning things around. But consider, that stretch between Byrne and David was actually longer than Loeb's run thus far.

- When David left. The next few issues were kind of a mess.

- A few issues into Byrne's dismal run on the relaunched book.

- A few issues into Jenkins' run. I think it was the "Demon dogs" or something that pushed me over the edge.

- The end of Bruce Jones' run. I really liked it for a while, but somewhere around the time he brought Betty back in a different body, it was time to go.

I guess my point is the Hulk has had plenty of other low points before. Eventually, though, writers leave and other writers arrive and things get better. Loeb will move on eventually, and there will be hope again.

[madrox1977]

Well I also dropped Hulk as of last month, I just cant read this drivel after the Pak run.
Will probably buy it in trade if i find it in a sale somewhere, and just hope that once day the "Incredible hulk" will return and "Jeph Loeb writes what he wants" will be cancelled.

[DeadXMan]

I agree, but I'm a little surprised that this is the first time you've quit the book. The first issue I bought on the newsstands was 236; my run goes all the way back to the 150s. Since that time I've quit about four or five times, each time quite deservedly:

- When Byrne left, in the middle of a story, after issue 319. There was a year's worth of horrible, horrible issues in there with Al Milgrom (a fine inker, but..) doing the art and I have no idea who was writing it, if anyone. David didn't come on until 330, turning things around. But consider, that stretch between Byrne and David was actually longer than Loeb's run thus far.

- When David left. The next few issues were kind of a mess.

- A few issues into Byrne's dismal run on the relaunched book.

- A few issues into Jenkins' run. I think it was the "Demon dogs" or something that pushed me over the edge.

- The end of Bruce Jones' run. I really liked it for a while, but somewhere around the time he brought Betty back in a different body, it was time to go.

I guess my point is the Hulk has had plenty of other low points before. Eventually, though, writers leave and other writers arrive and things get better. Loeb will move on eventually, and there will be hope again.


there's no hope for you, Hulk is the hightest non event book when it comes out. Loeb like writing it, Ed like drawing it.

also, look at how bad have B/S have been since he left.

[Kasper Cole]

also, look at how bad have B/S have been since he left.

The drop in quality of that book is almost identical to the drop in quality of Hulk stories...

[agrich]

there's no hope for you, Hulk is the hightest non event book when it comes out. Loeb like writing it, Ed like drawing it.

also, look at how bad have B/S have been since he left.

I admit I don't even know what B/S is. Batman/Superman?

I used to like Loeb quite a bit back in the Long Halloween days.

Regardless, writers move on all the time. A year or two from now, at most, Loeb will have told all the Hulk stories he has in him -- some would argue he already did, before he even started writing it :) -- and he'll move on. If I had a dollar for every creator who said something like, "I've got the next two years planned out" and left six months later, well, I'd have a lot of dollars.

[carabas]

The drop in quality of that book is almost identical to the drop in quality of Hulk stories...Batman/Superman was never actually good. It used the by now standard Loeb Formula: a mystery, an A-list cast, A-list artists, cobbled together from bits and pieces of better comics.

And it had US President Lex Luthor, who is using a cloned body because his original died from Kryptonite poisoning, shoot liquid Kryptonite in his veins so he could brawl it out with Superman for every news crew in the galaxy to see.

[Kasper Cole]

Batman/Superman was never actually good. It used the by now standard Loeb Formula: a mystery, an A-list cast, A-list artists, cobbled together from bits and pieces of better comics.

And it had US President Lex Luthor, who is using a cloned body because his original died from Kryptonite poisoning, shoot liquid Kryptonite in his veins so he could brawl it out with Superman for every news crew in the galaxy to see.

I disagree I thought it was good. I kinda agree with you on how things ended though, the biggest problems I have with Loeb is that he finishes very poorly. Getting to the end is fun but the actual ending is meh. In the Hulk getting to the end wasn't fun at all, it was just boring.

[Comet Man]

I feel for the O.P. and agree.

And I also feel for McGuiness, for being one of the best artists out there, and busting his *ss on some of the most one-dimensional storytelling I can recall. This stuff is Marvel Adventures-Worthy.

You can't be serious. Believe me, there's no need to feel for McGuiness. The man is obviously having a blast on this book, not to mention, making lots of money off of it.

[Scavenger]

This stuff is Marvel Adventures-Worthy.

Woah..check yourself!

The MA Line..especialy MA Avengers is one of the best things Marvel has going right now!


You can't be serious. Believe me, there's no need to feel for McGuiness. The man is obviously having a blast on this book, not to mention, making lots of money off of it.

Yeah..let's be honest for an Artist of McGuiness' style, page after page of big superhero slug fests is likely golden time. I doubt he's complaining (just like no one complains about the art on the books..just the writing).

[CMBMOOL]

Umm... You're making a mistake. Hold out another 3 issues at least.

Because guess what? I didn't spoil this in it's own thread, but the Green Hulk for the time being, has his intelligence back!

And it looks like the Son of Skaar storyline will somehow awaken the Green Scar personality. It's a real possiblity. When the Hulk and his son Skaar meet up for the first time. Hang in there.
Yeah, in the pages of Mighty Avengers.

Still the chances for Loeb's Hulk to tie into Pak's Planet Skarr are slim to none. :frown:

To me I blame Loeb's work on the She-Hulk in this series being the reason that the She-Hulk series is now cancelled. :mad:

[Joe Franklin]

I think the appeal of the book is obvious.

Great art complimenting action oriented stories with lots and lots of big fights.

It's a very simple formula that works pretty well for a Hulk book to a lot of readers.


Correct.

It's like an event book for me. Tons of guest stars, great art, and goofball stories. It's a drunken party on paper where even the nerds get laid by the dumb drunk hot chick.:cool:

[B. Kuwanger]

I never understood the "I hate this cause hulk is dumb again"

hey I like Joe and the professor
but Dumb hulk is what I grew up on.

The TV show: dumb Hulk
all the cartoons: dumb hulk
games: dumb hulk
movies: dumb hulk.

This is the most recognizable and profitably form of hulk for marvel. and it shows month in and month out as highest ranking non-event comic.

I grew up with the 90s Hulk cartoon, some of Peter David's run, renting the 60s cartoon, reading reprints of 60s Hulk, watching re-runs of the Bixby show, saw both films and played two Hulk videogames. Most of the time Hulk was dumber than a suitcase full of milk*. I don't think there was ever a time where I could scribble out the words or go on mute and have the stories actually be better.

And then the poor dummy has to share his dumb story with Rulk...

*if Hulk is dumb in a game, it's kinda your fault, haha.

[Comet Man]

This'll be a neverending argument. I just feel bad for the ones who don't enjoy it.

I think you just need to let your hair down, loosen up, and just enjoy the hell out of it. It's not gonna hurt you - I promise.:wink:

[carabas]

I disagree I thought it was good. I kinda agree with you on how things ended though, the biggest problems I have with Loeb is that he finishes very poorly. Getting to the end is fun but the actual ending is meh. In the Hulk getting to the end wasn't fun at all, it was just boring.The ending is an integral and very important part of a good story.
No matter how good the build-up, if the ending is bad, the whole of it suffers. Plotholes only become plotholes when they aren't resolved.

[B. Kuwanger]

I think you just need to let your hair down, loosen up, and just enjoy the hell out of it. It's not gonna hurt you - I promise.I wish I could enjoy this book, too. But it's not like Silver Age comics or however people try to put it to explain why it doesn't read well. To me there's no shaking that above all, it's Loeb being lazy and turning in half a book to a big time artist and getting all this money. What I wish is that I could stop seeing Loeb in back of me with his hands around my neck coaxing me to "go on and let your brain go" every time I try this comic.

[Kasper Cole]

The ending is an integral and very important part of a good story.
No matter how good the build-up, if the ending is bad, the whole of it suffers. Plotholes only become plotholes when they aren't resolved.

I disagree, in serialized entertainment it's possible to get away with a piss poor ending and still have the things that precede it be enjoyable.

[Zero Hunter]

I think I have just read too many good version of the Hulk over the years to ever enjoy something as tired as the old "Hulk Smash" version anymore. Unless it is written by a really great writer who put a new twist on it, and Loeb just isn't that guy. Loeb is basically just redoing the mystery Hulk angle that was going on when Rick Jones was turned into a Hulk befroe David came on board.

[carabas]

I disagree, in serialized entertainment it's possible to get away with a piss poor ending and still have the things that precede it be enjoyable.They're read serialised only once. After the story is complete, it no longer is serialised but read in one go.

[DeadXMan]

so let's review:

EIC: Happy with Hulk
Writer : is happy to be on hulk
artist: happy to be on hulk
retailer: happy with hulk
diamond: happy with hulk
Share holders: happy with Marvel
majority of readers without OCD: happy with hulk

a few borderline narcissistic specs in the grand scale of the universe : not happy with the Hulk.


you lost. we won accept change. :tongue:

[Superbeast]

so let's review:

EIC: Happy with Hulk
Writer : is happy to be on hulk
artist: happy to be on hulk
retailer: happy with hulk
diamond: happy with hulk
Share holders: happy with Marvel
majority of readers without OCD: happy with hulk

a few borderline narcissistic specs in the grand scale of the universe : not happy with the Hulk.


you lost. we won accept change. :tongue:

If by "OCD" you meant to put "actually got interested in the Hulk due to Planet Hulk and WWH and then were disappointed to see him being sidelined to push Rulk and the mystery of his identity that WILL NEVER EVER EVER END and for the title to suddenly slip into it's own self contained continuity despite using other Marvel characters", that's a fair summary.

[DeadXMan]

no

Obsessive completion disorder.


the group your are referring to are those that need to 80% of past hulk stories.

especially the Stan lee days.

[Lord Moon]

the group your are referring to are those that need to 80% of past hulk stories.


Please add word that makes this sentence less mysterious. Unless you are going to reveal it 24 posts later as an ongoing plotline.

[DeadXMan]

only if you're gonna give me $9.99 a post

[coconutphone]

Well said Original poster.

[desanth]

I read Hulk 10 and I can see why you'd drop the Hulk title. Nothing interesting happening, its not painstakingly bad but its not anything but a setup for a brawl. And who knows how long a smart hulk will stick around, much less how smart he'll be with Loeb writing. Loeb just hasn't done anything really good in the past few years.

[Nite-Wing]

You know whats even worse Marvel realizes its gotten to be just a big dumb fight book each and every month that it does come out and they don't care. Instead they make references to blog sites like the kid who probably hated Greg pak's run because he didn't get how the Hulk wasn't fighting people like Thor, Iron man, and Wolverine.
I mean has it even been explained why the Hulk regressed into the dumb Hulk???
No, because Loeb's work for Marvel makes no sense and I can't believe that they gave him the keys to the Ultimate universe.

[rajincajun689]

so let's review:

EIC: Happy with Hulk
Writer : is happy to be on hulk
artist: happy to be on hulk
retailer: happy with hulk
diamond: happy with hulk
Share holders: happy with Marvel
majority of readers without OCD: happy with hulk

a few borderline narcissistic specs in the grand scale of the universe : not happy with the Hulk.


you lost. we won accept change. :tongue:

It's called an opinion. Everyone's entitled to one, ya fascist.

[Mark_S]

so let's review:

EIC: Happy with Hulk
Writer : is happy to be on hulk
artist: happy to be on hulk
retailer: happy with hulk
diamond: happy with hulk
Share holders: happy with Marvel
majority of readers without OCD: happy with hulk

a few borderline narcissistic specs in the grand scale of the universe : not happy with the Hulk.


you lost. we won accept change. :tongue:

I think you should remember that the next time a change that you don't like occurs in a title. True the editors and the writers do what they do for money and the shareholders like the money too. No problem there. But this success also feeds into the arrogance that many writers and comic companies have that they can do anything that they want to a character and people will buy it. Not good in the long run.

Mark_S

[Treqqor]

I think you should remember that the next time a change that you don't like occurs in a title.

Guess what. Like life, the word you would use is "cyclical".

I dropped the title with Bruce Jones' run. I did no like it at all. I came back after, and am still enjoying the book. Maybe the next writer will be like Bruce Jones and scare me away again. The GREAT thing about this ongoing medium is a new writer will be on the book after that and I might be back. There's ALWAYS another writer around the corner, ALWAYS the chance to create stories we love and/or stories we hate. Rinse. Recycle. Repeat.

And we're all still alive.

[Comet Man]

I think you should remember that the next time a change that you don't like occurs in a title. True the editors and the writers do what they do for money and the shareholders like the money too. No problem there. But this success also feeds into the arrogance that many writers and comic companies have that they can do anything that they want to a character and people will buy it. Not good in the long run.

Mark_S

Except I feel that the editors and writers have made the title great again, but you haven't. That's the way it is. Some will like it, and some won't. Not everybody can be pleased. Obviously in this case, lots of people are pleased. There's nothing arrogant about that. It's only arrogant when they continue to do things that people don't like, and continue to do it even when the book doesn't sell. They're not going to judge whether or not people like it by a few opinions on the internet, they're going to judge it by how it sells. If you continue to buy a book you hate, then that's your fault.

[Flinkman]

i have a Hulk title on my pull list for the first time in my entire comic book reading life.

i'm sorry so many people don't enjoy it...but i do.

[Lord Moon]

only if you're gonna give me $9.99 a post

I'll wait for the trade

[Leocomix]

Go Jeph, we are with you. Your Hulk rocks.

[DrDoom616]

Go Jeph, we are with you. Your Hulk rocks.

Actually

Go away Jeph, we are not with you. Your Hulk sucks.

[DrDoom616]

Let's put it to the vote

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=258940

[steve2275]

For all those who enjoy the title, God Bless ya. I won't insult your intelligence, or your taste, or whatever. You guys go ahead and enjoy it, after all, it's just a comic book.

Thanks for reading!
thanks 4 the blessing

[Lord Moon]

I can see both sides of the argument: thus I should be banned from the Internet.

[Westgarth J]

Only the entertaining parts, Lord Moon - you shall simply have to frequent somewhere more sensible on the web, and I wish you all the best in finding it.

The golden rule of internet is this: everyone on the internet is wrong. If you want to get this book cancelled, everyone just has to say they love it and hope that it continues forever.

[DeadXMan]

I'll wait for the trade

trade will be $300


I'm a floppy man:tongue:

[Comet Man]

Let's put it to the vote

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=258940

Ha! You vote with your wallet.

Looks like most of the people who buy it don't come to this site, and all the people that hate it do. :biggrin:

[Lord Moon]

Only the entertaining parts, Lord Moon - you shall simply have to frequent somewhere more sensible on the web, and I wish you all the best in finding it.


I looked. There wasn't. I'm back.

[Expletive Deleted]

I was going to say "talk about comics, not each other," but this really isn't going anywhere.