The nature of a Hellboy

[manwiththemachinegun]

Kind of an interesting premise. But it's interesting to note what Hellboy is 'really' made out of.

Those who just watched the Hellboy movies will likely assume, (and its never stated otherwise) that Hellboy is a pure blood demon.

As we know, in the comics its a bit more complex than that, with Hellboy having a demon father and a witch for a mother.

In Biblical tales, the offspring of such a union were known as the Nephilim, great and terrible champions of evil, with their 'parents' directly imprisoned by angels, punishment to avoid the corruption of the human race itself.

While Hellboy has avoided this fate, he also has another unique heritage, his arm.

Which is the arm of an angel.

The lead watcher who created the Ogrdu Jahad, yet was filled with remorse at what he had done, and used his great power to imprison them and went to war against the Ogrdu Hem. He was destroyed by his peers, who were judged far more harshly than he. Eventually, his remnants became a holy statue in Hyperborea, slaying the the worshipers of the Black Goddess when they profaned the land. Broken, the statue's arm was the only part of it that survived, and it was lost until, for reasons still unknown, it was captured and passed on to Hellboy.

This really isn't any new information, but I thought it was quite interesting to see Hellboy as a unique 'balanced' being, with attributes of the full range of good and evil creatures across creation. He has the appearance and 'destiny' of a demon, the free will, empathy and moral compass of a human, and the strength of an angel in his indestructible arm. All without coming across as cliche like the legions of 'half man/half demon/half rutabaga' heroes that pop up all over comics.

[AbeSapien99]

I think that's pretty much the whole premise behind Hellboy. :smile: In appearance and origin he's a demon, yet here we have him fighting the good fight for the sake of humanity. Of course, had he been raised by the Nazis or Rasputin, we probably would have had a much different HB. So really, Hellboy's got the whole nature-versus-nurture thing all over him.

[manwiththemachinegun]

Yeah, and his easy going nature, diverts occasionally from the sort of brooding epicness behind Hellboy's birth. It's that contrast that really sells it. I mean, you've got the antichrist/guardian angel of Earth quipping about how "God has a tree in his neck" or how he's gonna get his new fish-man friend a ham sandwich, it hits home in the right place. :cool:

[Kees_L]

it hits home in the right place. :cool:

I surely second that.

But I'm such a coot:
upon reading stuff like 'demon' or 'Nazis and witches' or 'antichrist' I'm like 'hell yeah...!' Although on reading *angel* for a sorting term I immediately seem to go 'now ain't such a bit of a biggish word...? Not 'God'. Even 'morality' but hardly... Only on *angel* I seem to tighten up my tush a tad... Weird.
I had that upon glancing thru the novel "On Earth..." as well. Should maybe really start reading that, to ease down my 'idiom digestion' aptitude somewhat...
(I hope I wasn't speaking out of line in sharing this with you...)

[manwiththemachinegun]

No not all, in fact I credit Mike for coming up with a vision of angelic beings that aren't dorky surfer dudes in bathrobes.

Flaming, floaty skeletal presences that capture fire from the mouth of God? COOL! :eek:

It's funny how many thing Mike throws into the blender and it all seems to come out all right. Ancient myths and religions (real and imagined), creatures and monsters from pop culture, aliens, history, horror, literature, pulp 40s fiction and good old G.I. Joe/ G-Man style government action.

I really can't think of many other stories that have combined all that and is not only cool, but internally consistent. Just look at the mess at how DC and Marvel handle myth in their stories. They can't even keep their own story straight, let alone trying to bring in outside material.

[AbeSapien99]

Oh, don't get me started on Marvel and DC. I mean, I like characters from both, but I hate how terribly conviluted their universes have become. Especially with character deaths... "Superman is dead!... oh wait, no he's okay... wait no, he's dead again... oh no there he is alive again! .....and now he has a Superdog and a Superhorse............" That's what I like about series like Hellboy with only one core artist/writer - it's consistent. There are a lot of co-authors and artists for Hellboy, but everything pretty much goes through Mike first for the okay.

No not all, in fact I credit Mike for coming up with a vision of angelic beings that aren't dorky surfer dudes in bathrobes.

Surfer dudes in bathrobes? That's a colourful way of putting it. :tongue:

I like how Mike portrays angels, too. They're not the typical beautiful person with wings we're all used to. In fact, Mike's more raw, creature-like interpretation of angels has molded my own. Still, I cringe when I hear 'angel,' I guess just due to the schema that's been associated with it for so long (the "surfer dudes in bathrobes" view).

[Kees_L]

I really can't think of many other stories that have combined all that and is not only cool, but internally consistent.

I believe mr. Mike may have wondered in his earlier career how stories and characters he sat in at, even got to what they seemed to be then (or now).
I think guys like Kirby hardly ever 'kept stuff alive or consistent' but rather started anew when they felt like it (cuz guys like Kirby could).
Maybe Hellboy was such for its' creator: working afresh and chucking only stuff in there which felt appropriate and cool and right. Maybe?:smile:
I never read the first X-Men or Avengers or FF but I guess when that was fresh it may have smelled a bit like the BPRD does nowadays.

[manwiththemachinegun]

Well, depending on your taste you may or may not like certain things. But within the context of the fictional world, if the undead spirit of Zeus pops up and starts wrecking havoc with lighting bolts over Greece, the BPRD just shrugs their shoulders and go, "Man, I hate Mondays".

The bizarre is ordinary, and so it fits.

[Ninth Hispana]

I don't know why, but more and more [while reading HB] I get the feeling we are in for a bit of a Spartacus. In dealing with Hellboy the only way, besides the world being destroyed [ and I wouldn't put that past Mike to throw at us] is if Hellboy overthrows Hell.....:cool:

[mimschkin]

It's the contrast that I really love with Hellboy. It explores both sides of a human psyche - the idea that everyone has a 'dark side', running from his past all the time. And the fact that he's different trying to lead a relatively normal life makes him all the more relatable. It's a complex yet lovable character.

[JohnThompson]

...cliche like the legions of 'half man/half demon/half rutabaga' heroes that pop up all over comics.
I think Maija might take offense at being called a cliche....:rolleyes: I credit Mike for coming up with a vision of angelic beings that aren't dorky surfer dudes in bathrobes.
I don't mind angelic surfer dudes myself-- one of the best/funniest comics I ever read that dealt with angels and demons interacting with humans was Robert Kirkman's Battle Pope. Good stuff there!

[Kees_L]

Well, depending on your taste you may or may not like certain things. But within the context of the fictional world, if the undead spirit of Zeus pops up and starts wrecking havoc with lighting bolts over Greece, the BPRD just shrugs their shoulders and go, "Man, I hate Mondays".

The bizarre is ordinary, and so it fits.

Uh-huh. Well I think what I mean is this:

To me Hellboy and BPRD really are comics (to the core), yet they aren't ordinary. Like how the Simpsons is a cartoon, but never crummy or merely kiddie or merely grown-uppy. It's just really good and creator-loved (-nursed?) without being specifically orchestrated for one audience.
For Hellboy and the BPRD real stories get written and fitted into consistency. But WITHOUT going: 'this year we'll fit Hellboy into a new costume. Spread over 11 issues, where the costume (a new leppard printed zipper coat) turns Red evil. A full-scale nemesis adventure granting us another issue or 50. Also: there will be three cameo cross-over appearances no-one would èver have dreamed...'
Without all that.
Maybe the fact that BPRD and Hellboy are a) fresh and b) creator-owned - makes it possible for them to be so great?

[noble_enough]

Well said Kees_L

[Jelio]

haha yes very well said Kees_L



-Jeremy

[manwiththemachinegun]

Yeah, the marketing crap and cross over cash ins get old after a while.

It's funny, because I think the Hellboy, Starman, Batman crossover worked really well. Probably because it wasn't over-hyped, it was just "there".

[Ontarah]

I actually think real angels (if you believe in them) would probably be insulted by the whole cutsey cherubim or surfer dude bit. In the Bible and other religious stories, the first thing they almost always say to people when they appear is "Fear not" which probably means they are terrifying beyond all getout to look at. I really like Mike's depiction of the Watchers. It's actually right on the same track as how I've generally pictured angels myself: as powerful warrior spirits, not swami types in robes or little kids with bare butts and stubby wings.

[AbeSapien99]

It's funny, because I think the Hellboy, Starman, Batman crossover worked really well. Probably because it wasn't over-hyped, it was just "there".

Yeah, plus Batman and Starman didn't really have big roles (which was pretty disappointing).

I actually think real angels (if you believe in them) would probably be insulted by the whole cutsey cherubim or surfer dude bit. In the Bible and other religious stories, the first thing they almost always say to people when they appear is "Fear not" which probably means they are terrifying beyond all getout to look at

Haha, but even if they were kinda cutesy, wouldn't you be a little spooked if a winged person descended from the sky in a beam of light? ;)

[manwiththemachinegun]

I actually think real angels (if you believe in them) would probably be insulted by the whole cutsey cherubim or surfer dude bit. In the Bible and other religious stories, the first thing they almost always say to people when they appear is "Fear not" which probably means they are terrifying beyond all getout to look at. I really like Mike's depiction of the Watchers. It's actually right on the same track as how I've generally pictured angels myself: as powerful warrior spirits, not swami types in robes or little kids with bare butts and stubby wings.

You're preachin to the choir here. :biggrin:

Tyreal from Diablo is another cool example of a being you don't want to screw with. The fact you can't see his face makes him all the more mysterious.

It is going to be interesting though what happens if, or when, Hellboy is ever forced to activate that demonic army he's fated to inherit. It's supposed to be used against heaven, and I can only imagine what the apocalypse drawn by Mike would look like. :cool:

[Ontarah]

It is going to be interesting though what happens if, or when, Hellboy is ever forced to activate that demonic army he's fated to inherit. It's supposed to be used against heaven, and I can only imagine what the apocalypse drawn by Mike would look like. :cool:

Yea, I've a feeling that might be on along towards the end of the story, but surely he would come back and draw that himself? I doubt he'd want someone else to be the last one to draw Hellboy. Oh, well, that's fifteen years away by his own count even if a part of me is rabid with anticipation to see just what the end might be.

[Jr. Wormwood]

I actually think real angels (if you believe in them) would probably be insulted by the whole cutsey cherubim or surfer dude bit. In the Bible and other religious stories, the first thing they almost always say to people when they appear is "Fear not" which probably means they are terrifying beyond all getout to look at. I really like Mike's depiction of the Watchers. It's actually right on the same track as how I've generally pictured angels myself: as powerful warrior spirits, not swami types in robes or little kids with bare butts and stubby wings.

Well said, Ontarah.

In Revelations there are beings said to dwell near God's throne who are anything BUT cutesy. Strange combinations of animals with too many limbs and eyes, all with an intense knowledge and appearance. Definitely nothing cutesy here, but more similar to the demons one would find in Mike's many sketchbooks.

[AbeSapien99]

Even some descriptions have at least one of the angels with a body of tongues. :eek:

[Ontarah]

I don't know if anyone has read it, but a book I read and liked as a kid called A Wind in the Door by Madeleine L'Engle has got a really cool depiction of an angel named Proginoskes. He is sort of half-way between the surfer dudes and the whole "wrath of God" bit. He is mellow and not particularly terrifying but also really bizarre looking, an amalgamation of too many wings and eyes that is described as looking like a "drive of dragons." This isn't the best picture on earth, but it gets the general idea across. L'Engle is the same author who wrote a Wrinkle in Time and for anyone who hasn't read her stuff I really recommend it.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/39/Windinthedoorhb.jpg

[Jr. Wormwood]

I definitely remember that series of books. I also seem to recall a mention recently of a movies being made based on the trilogy.

As a kid, I had three books in this series. Was it limited to a trilogy? I can't seem to remember.

Thanks for the reminder! I've been meaning to read these again for some time now...

[Ontarah]

I definitely remember that series of books. I also seem to recall a mention recently of a movies being made based on the trilogy.

As a kid, I had three books in this series. Was it limited to a trilogy? I can't seem to remember.

Thanks for the reminder! I've been meaning to read these again for some time now... I hadn't heard anything about movies, but that will be really awesome if it's the case. I'll have to go look some stuff up about that. And yes, originally, I believe it did consist of a trilogy comprised of A Wrinkle in Time, A Wind in the Door, and A Swiftly Tilting Planet. Now, however, they've gone and stuck a couple other books in there called Many Waters and An Acceptable Time. They call the lot the Time Quintet. Those other two are okay, but I didn't like them as much as the original trilogy as they aren't about the same characters. Many Waters does have a bunch of stuff about angels and demons in it though.