Do you like the way Advanced Aliens are portrayed as petty and warlike

[Tobys]

Do you like the way Advanced Aliens are portrayed as petty and warlike.

I think its a bit unrelaistic.

Our world sucks because of diseases and death and ignorance.
Science is the light in the dark that can combat all these ills.

So I really find the portayal of the Kree and Skrulls unrealistic races that technologically advanced would pretty much have to be peacefull as scientific advance requires tonnes of cooperation. And with scientific understanding comes a basic level of morality through learning about how other creatures work and feel and respect for ecosystems and your own mortality.

I just dont like the way the intergalactic beings act like England and Scotland (which is noth of englan for you americans) did in the 17th century.

Has anyone else EVER picked up or thought about this in Marvel Comics

[Lord Moon]

My mileage for Secret Cooperation would be limited.

Are the English the Kree? Are the Welsh the Badoon?

[muppet1962]

Do you like the way Advanced Aliens are portrayed as petty and warlike.

I think its a bit unrelaistic.

Our world sucks because of diseases and death and ignorance.
Science is the light in the dark that can combat all these ills.

So I really find the portayal of the Kree and Skrulls unrealistic races that technologically advanced would pretty much have to be peacefull as scientific advance requires tonnes of cooperation. And with scientific understanding comes a basic level of morality through learning about how other creatures work and feel and respect for ecosystems and your own mortality.


Sir, by your logic we in the 20th century would be less petty and warlike than people of centuries past because we have more advanced science. However, looking at the scope of history, it is clear that all manner of crime, hatred, atrocities, and war continue today as they have since man first started recording our crimes, hatreds, atrocities, and wars.

[Tobys]

no because he still have a HUGE way to go on the science front.

And we are less warlike,

some of us have morals while back in cavemen times no one did.

Religion is one of the big problems in fact maybe that explains it as in the MU many god like beings actually do exist, such as the ones the skrulls worship. So like people in the real world they cant really come into their own.

[Omega Alpha]

The reason as to why the Kree and the Skrulls developed so much technologically was exactly because of their centuries old war. So, yeah, it's reasonable to portray them as petty and in love with war.

[Kasper Cole]

The reason as to why the Kree and the Skrulls developed so much technologically was exactly because of their centuries old war. So, yeah, it's reasonable to portray them as petty and in love with war.

That, and there actually have been peaceful alien societies but the Kree, the Skrulls, the Shi'ar or Galactus always wipes them out. Silver Surfer comes form a peaceful planet, they're out there, they just don't last very long.

[Crowforge]

Aggression is a natural phenomenon, it makes perfect sense that aliens would be aggressive. As for advancement, they're only advanced compared to us, we are only running around with the brains of cavemen it's not that hard to outsmart us. What I don't buy is that they'd care all that much about us.

[Westgarth J]

The Kree and the Skrulls are typical of fictional alien races in that they represent their people as a whole - they aren't just a nation-state like the US or UK that have expanded into space leaving the rest of their world behind, they're a unified people and they tend to be warlike against outside interests. It's not improbable - if alien life existed - that they could unite beyond their differences, push their level of science and technology to a certain level that allowed them intergalactic travel, but then get bogged-down in territorial disputes with other races and end up with right-wing governments running their empires who push policies of aggressive expansion.
And, of course, you could look at it on a smaller scale - the portrayal of the Japanese/Germans in Marvel's (then Timely) war comics, or the portrayal of the Vietnamese/Koreans later. We know these are one-dimensional portrayals of rich cultures, but for the purposes of storytelling, sometimes all you need is someone to show up and shoot a gun at the hero to give them a push to action. If the Kree/Skrull War arc of Avengers had Cap and Iron Man going into space to make friends and start diplomatic overtures leading to an amicable settlement, that would make a rather dull comic. Likewise, if the Klingons had all been space-hippies, Kirk wouldn't have been much of a hero - he'd have been that asshole who ruined space for everyone else and banged everyone's mom/sister.

[leebrown1990]

The skrull orginally were a peaceful race, until they were pitted against the Kree. There very early evolutionary path was determined by militaristic conflict between different branches of the species, to establish the dominant branch. But that's common. Then religous fanatacisim wormed its way into their culture, even way before SI. So there history is pretty well balanced, leaning towards the aggresive side of things simply for enteraintments sake.

As for the Shiar, with an empire so large there bound to come into contact with other planets, races, species etc were peacful means cant solve their problems. The military stance of the shiar is pretty much dependant on who's sitting on the throne at the time, so again I'd say there not overly potrayed as aggressors.

The Kree may have always been milatiristic, but there have also been constantly peacful species throughout the marvel universe. All in all I wouldn't say all of the advanced races are potrayed as over militaristic.

Also at the end of the day who wants to read comic after comic about peacful first contacts and glactic senates having lunch together. War is alot more fun to read about , and the politcis as a result of war will generally again be more intresting than in peacful times.

[2-4-5_Trioxin]

Well these comics are written by humans and our scope is a bit limited so we can only write within the limits of what were able to. So you basically have peacefull and hatefull with varying degrees of that inbetween and not much else really.

Plus, if the aliens werent violent and such how would fighting them be interesting and why would we be fighting them?

I think its a bit unrelaistic.


Aliens, super powers and galaxy threating wars and such are realistic? Besides, comics arent real and when you start injecting to much reality and reason into them you might as well quit reading because your just sucking all the fun out of them. There is no meaning or deep philisophical reasoning in them, they are comic books for entertainment.

[XPac]

I'm more a believer in the Babylon 5 model of the universe, that the Star Trek one. I don't see technology as eliminating mankinds short comings.

We'll always have the same problems. We'll always have war and discease and racism and flat out stupidity. We'll still be as stupid, the only difference being we're being stupid why flying around in space ships.

And that applies to alien races too.

[Tobys]

hmm mixed bag of answers so far. I dont mean Science cures societies ills.

But to get to a spacefaring level of tech faster then light type stuff.

You would have to be REALLY cooperative and objectivly intelligent which would result in morallity.

[hunter_peterson]

You have very,very flawed logic.

Science has never been something that is an innately positive phenemenon. Hell, Eienstien accidentally made the atomic bomb possible. Our history has consistantly proven that our baser urges; sex, violence, gain, pleasure, have been the major force for advancement. Competition is also the usual cause for scientific innovation; Russia vs. USA in the space race, and any two or more competing companies.

Morals are only the societal expectations ,as well as religious want and need manifested in a system of choices, not to mention the primal urges I already listed. Science would not impact this much. Aliens are people too, probably, so they would most likely have to be militarised to spread beyond their homeworld. Survival of the fittest, the Darwinistic principle, dictates that they would be unable to advance to this stage without the weaker members of the race dying off.

I no way should cooperation be assumed as a required part of scientific advancement. It often only takes someone clever to publish something in a science journal to advance a field. And as for intelligence; we today are no more intelligent than the early homo sapiens. They invented all basic tools, for christ's sake. We only elaborate on past knowledge. ("I am lucky that I have been able to stand on the shoulders of giants."- Isaac Newton) Most probably alien races would be no smarter than us, maybe slightly, if at all.

Ugh. Wall of text vs. naivety.

EDIT: Also, while I'm still up; intelligence and morality do not have any correlation. Intelligence is a natural quality you are born with, and morality is a set of checks and balances, a series of guidelines that are picked up in the course of a lifetime. There are no innate morals, and a genius can be a sociopath while an idiot can be a charity worker.

EDIT #2: Oh, and on a final note, read Gulliver's Travels to read more about reason vs morality. It's a major theme of the story.

[Shyft]

Humans will still be as vicious and mean and stupid once we get into space. We can't even get along with people of other skin colours, we have no chance if another race discovers us.

[Leebenhouse]

IT's all the military industrial complex at work. So much civilian use technology is derived from military technology. Computers, nuclear power, plastics, all results of the military-industrial complex.

So why wouldn't a warlike species be more advanced, especially if they put all their science into building better weapons, of course there will be civillian applications that are advanced because of that.

[Alan2099]

Do you like the way Advanced Aliens are portrayed as petty and warlike.
Yes

I think its a bit unrelaistic.
So are people with green skin that can bench press Idaho when they get mad enough, people that shoot lasers out of their eyes, guys flying around the city in a cape and tights, and and all that other neat superhero stuff. If I wanted realism, I'd turn on the news.

Our world sucks because of diseases and death and ignorance.
That's a highly naive way of thinking.

Science is the light in the dark that can combat all these ills.
And that's an even more naive one. Dangerously naive.

[Jake V]

It always sort of rang false to me how all these alien civilizations behaved like it was the 13th century. But then, I guess imagining a completely alien society is a lot more difficult than aping a society we can read about in history books.

[hawkeye comeback]

Ya know if we in the far distant future get that technology we will be raping and pillaging alien planets and taking anything we can for ourselves and then when we meet a race as sophisticated as ourselves who could fight back we'll stop and talk for self presevation.

I don't see humans running into another alien race ever by the way but hypthetically this is.

[Kyle_Ion]

Do you like the way Advanced Aliens are portrayed as petty and warlike.

that is a yes

I think its a bit unrelaistic.

Of course its unrealistic its all taking place in comic book series

[Joe Franklin]

Do you like the way Advanced Aliens are portrayed as petty and warlike.

I think its a bit unrelaistic.


Bwahahahahaa.....................:biggrin:

Space Aliens unrealistic?

What evidence do we have to support your claim? Only goofy science fiction stories.

Advanced Space Aliens are only a figment of mankind's fun and vivid imagination.

[entzauberung]

While I don't really agree with the original poster (if the aliens aren't warlike, where is the conflict going to come from?) but I do agree that it's boring that most of these alien empires are warlike in the exact same way - masculine, militaristic societies vaguely resembling colonial Europe who have mastered space travel but still base their chain of command on hereditary principles or vague prophecies.

[Gitaroo_Dude]

While I don't really agree with the original poster (if the aliens aren't warlike, where is the conflict going to come from?) but I do agree that it's boring that most of these alien empires are warlike in the exact same way - masculine, militaristic societies vaguely resembling colonial Europe who have mastered space travel but still base their chain of command on hereditary principles or vague prophecies.

Well, what else is there?

Off the top of my head, the only other dominant representation of Alien life is Xenomorph-like Aliens that share a hivemind and are usually ruled by a Queen. And I think the Brood is like that in the Marvel universe.

While there's plenty of possibilities for peaceful alien races, I can't think of many different ways to spin aggressive or antagonistic alien forces.

[Henker]

Advanced technology only means it's easier to kill larger numbers of people.

[Joe Franklin]

Advanced technology only means it's easier to kill larger numbers of people.

Yep.

Cave men didn't have the technology to destroy all living the creatures on the earth, but 21st century man sure does.

Simple is much less deadly.

[skrullover]

To answer the original poster:

If evolution progresses on other planets in a similar way as here on Earth, then we must presume looking at nature, and man kind's history, that most advnaced species will be what you consider "war-like". It is the concept of "survival of the fittest", and it is an essential component of evolving to an advanced being in the first place. Technology and science don't "cure" this, as it is not something that is wrong. It is the way the universe works. So I would say Marvel is spot on with most of their playful theories (and thats all they are).

Further, what is ironic about the post, is that in order technology to advance society must "need" something. The greatest needs are often defense of your territory and people. The biggest technological advances of the past 100 years (cell-phones, internet, GPS, and on and on) ALL came from the military. In fact, most of our technology comes from war.

One could say without war nothing would be as it is today.

[celticguy]

Do you like the way Advanced Aliens are portrayed as petty and warlike.

I think its a bit unrelaistic.

I just dont like the way the intergalactic beings act like England and Scotland (which is noth of englan for you americans) did in the 17th century.

Has anyone else EVER picked up or thought about this in Marvel Comics


Unrealistic based on your experience with aliens?

Didn't the Xmen deal with a race that was nice to the earth? the Watcher is a pretty nice guy usually. Nova has made some nice pals.

I think there are good and bad people in all the races shown. Kind like on earth.

[chaosakita]

Where have lots of our human technological advancements come from?

War.

[chaosakita]

Where have lots of our human technological advancements come from?

War.

[Jake V]

Where have lots of our human technological advancements come from?

War.

Which ones are those?

[StoneGold]

Thing you're forgetting, the peaceful races all already got their asses kicked by the warlike ones.




Well, that or eaten by Galactus.

[StoneGold]

Which ones are those?

Silly Putty and M&Ms.

[HVulpes]

War is a big tech advancer, but there are others.

The many reason the aliens are made to be warlike empires are likely a throwback to the enemies of the sixties and maybe the forties. Communists and the Japanese Empire. (Note the Kree, Skrull and Shi'ar Empires!)

One could link it to the progression of Lex Luthor. In the 30-70, he was an evil scientist as people were afraid of science running amok. Especially radioactive materials and bombs, which might explain some storylines with nukes with Lex or the evil Radioactive material of Kryptonite.

In the eighties, we feared big business. So Lex was turned from a Mad Scientist to Evil Corperate. He didn't make the advance tech, he paid for it. Plus he owned most of the banks, businesses, media and land in Metropolis.

In 2000, we started to fear the government. So what does Lex become? President, of course.

So any day now I expect Lex to revert to Evil Corperate and become a major mover with Banks, given opinions of banks and other compnaies.

This might be an interesting idea to do with the Skrulls. Put them on the back burner for a couple of years, out of sight and mind. Then have the heroes deal with some financial problems or problems connected with the business world. Iron Man suits keep popping up on the black market, someone is selling super power which just happen to be the same kind as many heroes, villains are getting tip offs against the heroes.

The heroes start to uncover the secrets till the nasty truth is revealed... Skrullco! The skrulls have been using their powers to amass a fortune as mercenaries, spies and brokers of physical and non-physical goods.

Just a thought. This would have to happen some two to five years in the future at least, to avoid Skrull fatigue. Opinions?

War advances Tech, Profit advances War and/or Tech.

[Kusanagi]

To be fair to Alien races in Marvel why would the peaceful Alien races bother with earth. Watching it for two seconds you can instantly see the population is a group of violently powered psychotic apes. :tongue:

If I was a peaceful race I'd stay as far away as possible. So really the only races we see in mass in comics, and not just acting as an extra, are those that see Earth as something they can capitalize on i.e. Warlike races.

[StoneGold]

To be fair to Alien races in Marvel why would the peaceful Alien races bother with earth. Watching it for two seconds you can instantly see the population is a group of violently powered psychotic apes. :tongue:


I dunno, Uatu seems to get a kick out of it.

[Tikal]

Which ones are those?

the internet was made by the military
traditionally... but not always i admit
military = war or preparation for war

the idea that science = peace is stupid

some of the most brilliant mines were put to use to create bombs weapons, biological weapons... hell hitler was basically responsible for the affordable car (vw). I want to say he also did the first television transmission.
War, conquerors, evil do not equal dumb and primitive.

[celticguy]

Silly Putty and M&Ms.


and beef jerky

[celticguy]

the internet was made by the military
traditionally... but not always i admit
military = war or preparation for war

the idea that science = peace is stupid

some of the most brilliant mines were put to use to create bombs weapons, biological weapons... hell hitler was basically responsible for the affordable car (vw). I want to say he also did the first television transmission.
War, conquerors, evil do not equal dumb and primitive.

and Tang and velcro

[StoneGold]

and Tang and velcro

I think you're off a bit on those two. Even if you switched to the space race from war. Velcro was created by the Swiss.

[Expletive Deleted]

I think you're off a bit on those two. Even if you switched to the space race from war. Velcro was created by the Swiss.The space race could be seen as part of the Cold War.

[The Batman]

1) Given that we're talking about alien races that shapeshift and fly and benchpress cars while still looking, more or less, like human beings, I think that an aggressive foreign policy seems an odd place to draw the 'realism' line.

2) Given that so much scientific progress has resulted from war or the preperation for war or, as is the case for the space race, as a proxy to war, I've got to agree that the notion that a scientifically advanced people are a peaceful people is a touch naive.

3) For a truly advanced civilization, one capable of interstellar/intergalactic faster than light travel, wiping us out might merit as much consideration, brutality, and remorse as stepping on an ant or crushing a spider does for us. Or, if the bug metaphor isn't to your liking, perhaps the colonialism one will be?

[celticguy]

I think you're off a bit on those two. Even if you switched to the space race from war. Velcro was created by the Swiss.

Well NASA is a somewhat Military orginzation and the space race in the 1960's was military driven.

Could have sworn velcro came from NASA but I would not bet anything on it. Not that into Fashion even bad fashion.

[voltron]

Advanced technology only means it's easier to kill larger numbers of people.

i agree with this
the 20th century has killed more people in war, than in the history of mankind
the 20th century came up with things like genocide
because of technology, one person can now kill millions
people like Pol Pot, Mao Tse, etc etc

*edit - hmmm....reading this part again it seems a little off, but the main point still stands

as long as their is pride, greed and selfishness
there will always be war, and people will always be petty
and with

so unless you find a totally selfless race, these things will be there

disease? science cant even sure a common cold
if u take evolution as your viewpoint
then viruses will always be around, because they will always evolve and survive.
death, it will be impossible to totally eliminate death
unless you go down the path of clones and the such, but then it isnt you is it?
and ignorance?
education is being trumpeted as the big saviour of the people
the common answer to any problem is "EDUCATION!"
but it just means i know more ways to be selfish and greedy and proud.
everyone knows rape is wrong, but it keeps happening

i think the op is being a little naive
science doesnt change a person
it never has, it never will

[Joe Franklin]

Which ones are those?

Nuclear fusion.

Bio-chemicals.

Gun powder projectile weapons.

Radar

Computers

And the list goes on forever.........................

[hunter_peterson]

The aquaducts. Heh.

[Laminator_X]

It's the warlike ones that carve out empires and try to invade the Earth. The planet of fulfilled workers with pleasant hobbies having pot-luck discussion nights doesn't show up in adventure stories very often. Space is full of peaceful aliens minding their own business off panel.

[Filthy Mutie]

Sure.

The passive races got beat-up by the aggressive, warlike empires and got their tech stolen. Makes sense.