Son of the Demon/Batman and Son

[pressdarlings]

How relevant is Son of the Demon to Batman and Son if at all? Is Damian the baby in SOTD? Or has this been retconned? If so, when was he conceived?

[Mia]

I would say that it was retconned. Morrison said that Damian was based on SOTD, but if you read both stories you will find that they are very dis-similar. When Morrison was asked about it, he said that he never re-read SOTD when he was writing Batman and Son. He was just going by his memories.

[dreyga2000]

It's one of those cases where the choice is really up to you...

SOTD can quite easily fit into continuity... there's nothing pain stakeningly* contradicting about it...

Assuming that it's not in-continuity then he was conceived one of the random times Bruce and Talia did the nasty...

[nepenthes]

I would say that it was retconned. Morrison said that Damian was based on SOTD, but if you read both stories you will find that they are very dis-similar. When Morrison was asked about it, he said that he never re-read SOTD when he was writing Batman and Son. He was just going by his memories.

where did you read this? I find it kinda hard to believe. if you saw it on wikipedia it's since been removed, since i checked the reference it was using and realized it was bunk.

It's vague, Batman mentions being part of a "eugenics experiment" but then in Last Rites we see them getting it on, which was always part of standard continuity anyway. I like Son of the Demon so I definitly count it as a milestone. great trade

[F1uke]

When asked about the fate of Ibn al Xu'ffasch, Batman group editor Dennis O'Neil stated the story was not canonical due to the events of Zero Hour. However, Batman & Son, a story arc written by Grant Morrison, starting in Batman #655 (July 26, 2006), follows up on Son of the Demon by using the idea of Batman's son once more. Still, the whole plot from that novel is ignored because Talia kept the baby and the way he was conceived is quite different from Barr´s story. Grant Morrison stated in an interview with Wizard that he had made some mistakes with the continuity on account of not reading the story prior to writing, but used the events of Superboy Prime's 'reality punching' in Infinite Crisis as an excuse for the errors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_the_demon

[Mia]

where did you read this? I find it kinda hard to believe. if you saw it on wikipedia it's since been removed, since i checked the reference it was using and realized it was bunk.

It's vague, Batman mentions being part of a "eugenics experiment" but then in Last Rites we see them getting it on, which was always part of standard continuity anyway. I like Son of the Demon so I definitly count it as a milestone. great trade

It was from an interview Morrison did with Wizard after the B&S finished. He said that he wrote the story based on what he remembered from having read SOTD years ago. Sorry I can't provide a direct quote. I pitched the magazine. But I do remember fans being annoyed about him being sloppy.

[pressdarlings]

When asked about the fate of Ibn al Xu'ffasch, Batman group editor Dennis O'Neil stated the story was not canonical due to the events of Zero Hour. However, Batman & Son, a story arc written by Grant Morrison, starting in Batman #655 (July 26, 2006), follows up on Son of the Demon by using the idea of Batman's son once more. Still, the whole plot from that novel is ignored because Talia kept the baby and the way he was conceived is quite different from Barr´s story. Grant Morrison stated in an interview with Wizard that he had made some mistakes with the continuity on account of not reading the story prior to writing, but used the events of Superboy Prime's 'reality punching' in Infinite Crisis as an excuse for the errors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_the_demon

How do we know Talia didn't get the baby back? It happened "off-screen".

[earl]

Whether or not it is 'in-continuity', Son of the Demon is a pretty good Batman comic.

I wish DC would reprint 'Birth of the Demon', as I read that one back when it came out and it is hard to find now.

[F1uke]

How do we know Talia didn't get the baby back? It happened "off-screen".

Right, I'm pretty sure we assume Talia DID get the baby back. I'm pretty sure everyone in the comicbook world completely ignored that storyline, and then obviously Morrison wanted to bring another forgotten character back

[Captain Jim]

I always loved the idea of Batman having a kid from Mike Barr’s Son of the Demon story. That was the initial inspiration for doing a grown-up ‘evil’ son, even though I hadn’t read the story in years and couldn’t remember what happened in it! (laughs)

http://www.talesfromthelongbox.com/2008/02/23/talking-batman-with-grant-morrison-newsarama

[jgiannantoni05]

SotD probably happened, but with one notable change. Batman was drugged into having relations with Talia.

I don't like Morrison's Damian, so I think this Batman son thing was now a mistake. Should just be abandoned, Morrison hasn't had Batman reveal the paternity, so I'm hoping Damian is just determined to be a clone of some sort.
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[Mia]

http://www.talesfromthelongbox.com/2008/02/23/talking-batman-with-grant-morrison-newsarama

Thank you CJ.

[Choppa]

It didn't happen. Just read each writer's arc as a reset since they usually ignore the main stuff from the previous' ones.

[joku2]

Damien is definitely Bruces Son

[carabas]

It didn't happen. Morrison's run and Son Of The Demon are irreconcilable.

But Batman And Son was inspired by SotD, Morrison said as much in an interview.

[nepenthes]

It didn't happen. Morrison's run and Son Of The Demon are irreconcilable.

....how so?


It was from an interview Morrison did with Wizard after the B&S finished. He said that he wrote the story based on what he remembered from having read SOTD years ago. Sorry I can't provide a direct quote. I pitched the magazine. But I do remember fans being annoyed about him being sloppy.

"That was the initial inspiration for doing a grown-up ‘evil’ son, even though I hadn’t read the story in years and couldn’t remember what happened in it! (laughs

http://www.talesfromthelongbox.com/2008/02/23/talking-batman-with-grant-morrison-newsarama

this must be the one. though something tell me after the initial 'inspiration' he would've gone back to read it again, just seems very likely considering his affection for old continuity

[carabas]

....how so?In SotD, Batùan and Talia were in love, had a (relatively) normal romance, and the kid was brought about by natural means, and in the end, the kid was given up to be raised by normal people.

In Morrison's run, Talia pretty much raped Bruce, the kid was a result of artificial insemination, and was raised by the Brotherhood Of Assassins under Talia and Ras's supervision.