So where do I jump into the FF?

[NickFury90]

New member here, first post.

Anyway, for awhile the only thing I would read would be the occasional Batman GN/TPB, but one day I sat down with Brubanker's Captain America Omnibus. I sat there and read damn near the whole thing for 4 1/2 hours. It was soooo good. Since then, I've been trying to get into Marvel comics. What I got so far:

Ultimate Spider-man trades: Got a few of these, none of them are great but they are pretty solid/very good. They read much better in trades. Look forward to getting some more later.

Marvel Knights Spider-Man #1-12: I'ma HUUUUUGE Mark Millar fan. I know characterization isn't his strong point, but when it comes to imagination and over-the-top action, he's the go-to guy, and I loved this TPB.

Dark Phoenix Saga: I'm mixed on the old X-men book. For one, I can that they are good quality stories, but I HAAAATE the way they are written. They have such heavy-handed narration, overwritten dialog, and endless thought bubbles all over the page. Here's an excerpt from Uncanny X-men #139:

Kitty: *thought bubble* This is crazy! Every time I see Nightcrawler I flinch. I can't seem to help myself. I want to like him, but he looks so...different. He gives me the creeps.

Nightcrawler: Kitty is hiding her feelings well, but I know I make her nervous. I've tried to break the ice, but so far, nothing's worked. I simply have to keep trying. I like her too much to give up.

Ya see what I'm saying? I just can't get into that.

Astonishing X-Men: I adored this run by Whedon/Cassaday. I really felt like everyone was a team, and they all had their own personalities. Cykes was actually a badass, Emma Frost's sarcastic tone was hilarious, Wolverine was Wolverine, Beast was great at delivering exposition and the occasional one-liner, etc. Whedon is like the opposite of Claremont, with witty minimal dialog. And Cassaday's artwork is incredible. God, I love this run. I'd take this over any "God Loves, Man Kills", "Brood Saga", etc.

Ultimate X-men #1-65: These are some pretty darn good issues for the most part. You got Mark MIllar's summer action movie mode, Bendis' characterization and idiosyncratic dialog, and Vaughn does a decent combination of both. After that...meh. Still thats 65 issues that go from anywhere from decent-to-really awesome. Ultimate War was really fun too.

Ultimates 1/2: More Mark Millar love from yours too. All the Avengers got some problems, and it fun to see them in a more realistic world. Dark cyncial humor mixed with fantastic action scenes and Hitch's extra-detailed artwork gets what might just be my favorite comic runs ever. And since I jumped on late, I don't have to ***** about the delays. Also, Sam Jackson is Nick Fury. Thats too ****ing cool.

Now I plan on getting into Daredevil, but I already got plenty of recommendations on that. Visionaries 2/3, Born Again, The Man Without Fear, Bendis' run, and Brubanker's run.

But to finally get to the POINT OF THIS THREAD, I wanted to get into Fantastic Four, but I don't know where to get up on. I heard lots of great things about Waid's run, and my fave writer Millar is on FF now so I'll get that eventually. I just want some recommendations.

Thanks for reading this newbie thread :biggrin:

[Brannon]

The Lee/Kirby and John Byrne years of FF are the best ever made, but I'm thinking you might not like the style, so I would suggest the Wade/Werdigo run as the best place to start.

Many of the classic runs from the 70's and 80's are vastly superior to the new stuff sans the dialogue. You have to remember that the creators wrote the books like that because of the younger audience at the time. I'd suggest reading stuff like Dark Phoenix Saga while ignoring the captions. That being said, I can't really grasp what was so daunting about the example you gave.

[NickFury90]

I just find it really redundant and its like that the entire time through. Its not like that for EVERY 80s issue; I really enjoyed that Spidey vs Juggernaut two-parter I read last week.

[Joe Franklin]

Jump right in. Nothing confusing about it. It's a goofy child's comic book after all.

[NickFury90]

FF was always kinda goofy to me, but I've read a few issues here and there that were fun, I just didn't know which writer to start with(Waid, JMS, Millar, etc).

[SquidSquod]

Wait for Hickman. Skip Millar's out of place F4.

[DeadXMan]

agree, FF is in a sad state right now.

[stingerman]

Yeah, wait for the new team, 569 or 570 I think.

[Ex_]

New member here, first post.

Anyway, for awhile the only thing I would read would be the occasional Batman GN/TPB, but one day I sat down with Brubanker's Captain America Omnibus. I sat there and read damn near the whole thing for 4 1/2 hours. It was soooo good. Since then, I've been trying to get into Marvel comics. What I got so far:

Ultimate Spider-man trades: Got a few of these, none of them are great but they are pretty solid/very good. They read much better in trades. Look forward to getting some more later.

Marvel Knights Spider-Man #1-12: I'ma HUUUUUGE Mark Millar fan. I know characterization isn't his strong point, but when it comes to imagination and over-the-top action, he's the go-to guy, and I loved this TPB.

Dark Phoenix Saga: I'm mixed on the old X-men book. For one, I can that they are good quality stories, but I HAAAATE the way they are written. They have such heavy-handed narration, overwritten dialog, and endless thought bubbles all over the page. Here's an excerpt from Uncanny X-men #139:

Kitty: *thought bubble* This is crazy! Every time I see Nightcrawler I flinch. I can't seem to help myself. I want to like him, but he looks so...different. He gives me the creeps.

Nightcrawler: Kitty is hiding her feelings well, but I know I make her nervous. I've tried to break the ice, but so far, nothing's worked. I simply have to keep trying. I like her too much to give up.

Ya see what I'm saying? I just can't get into that.

Astonishing X-Men: I adored this run by Whedon/Cassaday. I really felt like everyone was a team, and they all had their own personalities. Cykes was actually a badass, Emma Frost's sarcastic tone was hilarious, Wolverine was Wolverine, Beast was great at delivering exposition and the occasional one-liner, etc. Whedon is like the opposite of Claremont, with witty minimal dialog. And Cassaday's artwork is incredible. God, I love this run. I'd take this over any "God Loves, Man Kills", "Brood Saga", etc.

Ultimate X-men #1-65: These are some pretty darn good issues for the most part. You got Mark MIllar's summer action movie mode, Bendis' characterization and idiosyncratic dialog, and Vaughn does a decent combination of both. After that...meh. Still thats 65 issues that go from anywhere from decent-to-really awesome. Ultimate War was really fun too.

Ultimates 1/2: More Mark Millar love from yours too. All the Avengers got some problems, and it fun to see them in a more realistic world. Dark cyncial humor mixed with fantastic action scenes and Hitch's extra-detailed artwork gets what might just be my favorite comic runs ever. And since I jumped on late, I don't have to ***** about the delays. Also, Sam Jackson is Nick Fury. Thats too ****ing cool.

Now I plan on getting into Daredevil, but I already got plenty of recommendations on that. Visionaries 2/3, Born Again, The Man Without Fear, Bendis' run, and Brubanker's run.

But to finally get to the POINT OF THIS THREAD, I wanted to get into Fantastic Four, but I don't know where to get up on. I heard lots of great things about Waid's run, and my fave writer Millar is on FF now so I'll get that eventually. I just want some recommendations.

Thanks for reading this newbie thread :biggrin:

Read Marvel Knights F4 by Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa. Then jump on at Hickman.

[NickFury90]

I'm definitely looking forward to Hickman's run, and the artwork looks to be fantastic too.

I"ll look into that Marvel Knight FF as well, thanks for the recommendation.

Hmm, getting mixed opinions on Millar's current run. I'm such a huge Millar fanboy I'll probably get a few issues anyway, but at least I can lower my expectations.

[DeadXMan]

I can give my summery of Millar run:

the greatest fights, you'll never see.

seriously,
Everyone vs a giant mecha painted to look like Capitan America
Doom vs Hulk Jr, Wolverine and Ultron.
should of warrant a few freaking panels:mad:

[Maestro]

Mark Millar wrote the first Ultimate Fantastic Four arc with Bendis and had his own 12 issue solo run in UFF #21-32. They are all collected in trade. In addition get Millar's Wolverine: Enemy of the State, Civil War, and Wanted too. The recent film was based on his comic. He also wrote a great Superman story called Superman: Red Son. Everyone likes that one

If you like Astonishing X-Men, you will like New X-Men by Grant Morrison too. It's the predecessor to Astonishing

[Iron Maiden]

The current arc, called "Doom's Masters" is shaping up to be a train wreck. I would wait for Hickman and Eaglesham also. You may want to try out
Dark Reign: Fantastic Four instead in the meantime.
That will be a warm up for Hickman before he starts up the regular FF title when Millar / Hitch leave (praise be!) and the artist will be Sean Chen.

[DeadXMan]

DOOM....HAS....NO...%$^&ING.....MASTER

For he is Doom!

The conquerer of both earths
Master of the dark arts and super sciences
liberator of Latviria
He has stolen the powers of the vary Gods themselves
He literally unleashed Hell on Reed and everyone he holds dear to the point where Jack Kirby himself descended to fix everything

and invented of the Pimp Cup.

For his lack of knowing this:
I demand that Millar be Tar and fathered while Land is bluged with the complete srtworks of Jack Kirby hardback

[NickFury90]

Mark Millar wrote the first Ultimate Fantastic Four arc with Bendis and had his own 12 issue solo run in UFF #21-32. They are all collected in trade. In addition get Millar's Wolverine: Enemy of the State, Civil War, and Wanted too. The recent film was based on his comic. He also wrote a great Superman story called Superman: Red Son. Everyone likes that one

If you like Astonishing X-Men, you will like New X-Men by Grant Morrison too. It's the predecessor to Astonishing

Forgot the mention I do have Wolverine Enemy of the State/Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D., Wanted, and 1985 as well.

[Karl O'Neill]

mark millar has a big fan, The threadstarter?!:eek:

I think i just died a little inside.

[Iron Maiden]

DOOM....HAS....NO...%$^&ING.....MASTER

For he is Doom!

The conquerer of both earths
Master of the dark arts and super sciences
liberator of Latviria

Don't say that conqueror stuff in the BP thread ... they insist that they weren't included. They blindly believe Hudlin that Emperor Doom should have a footnote to say oh, everyone but Wakanda.



He has stolen the powers of the vary Gods themselves
He literally unleashed Hell on Reed and everyone he holds dear to the point where Jack Kirby himself descended to fix everything

and invented of the Pimp Cup.

For his lack of knowing this:
I demand that Millar be Tar and fathered while Land is bluged with the complete srtworks of Jack Kirby hardback

There should be a scene like in the old Frankenstein movies, angry fans with torches converging on Scotland :biggrin:

[Skeets]

Read Waid's run.

[Magneto Rocks]

If you're a Millar fan, you'll probably love his run despite the critics. I've spoken to few people who are Millar fans and don't. It's not his best, but it's pretty damn good, and the best FF has been since Waid/Ringo.

[Shot]

The current run has been a lot of fun and if you're a Millar fan you'll probably enjoy it. Not his best work, but it's the best the FF has been in quite awhile.

[Ullar]

Skip the Millar run get Dark Reign FF and jump on with Hickman. You should also read Kick-Ass its one of the few Millar books I like.

[NickFury90]

Skip the Millar run get Dark Reign FF and jump on with Hickman. You should also read Kick-Ass its one of the few Millar books I like.

I wanted to wait and get Kick-Ass when its complete(if it ever gets complete), I know its only 6 issues. I felt the same way about War Heroes too.

Thanks for the suggestions everybody.

[Brannon]

If you're a Millar fan and really don't care that much about the characters, by all means pick up his run. I was just assuming that you were more interested in trying to sample the "Best of the FF."

[Elayis]

Don't listen to everybody else; Millar's FF is awesome. Although this IS my first FF writer (besides JMS's issues in the Road to Civil War TPB), and also my favorite writer, so I'm a little biased. If you loved Ultimates, than you'll like this. I'm still not a big fan of the FF, but I like what Millar is doing. Hitch's art in my opinion has dropped in quality, but not by much. I think it's because he has to get the issues in on time, so he can't spend as much time as he did on Ultimates. Plus, I think Paul Mounts colors don't really work for Hitch.

[NickFury90]

Don't listen to everybody else; Millar's FF is awesome. Although this IS my first FF writer (besides JMS's issues in the Road to Civil War TPB), and also my favorite writer, so I'm a little biased. If you loved Ultimates, than you'll like this. I'm still not a big fan of the FF, but I like what Millar is doing. Hitch's art in my opinion has dropped in quality, but not by much. I think it's because he has to get the issues in on time, so he can't spend as much time as he did on Ultimates. Plus, I think Paul Mounts colors don't really work for Hitch.

Millar fans unite! Thats quite the pull list you got there, you're burning a hole in your wallet like you got pick-pocketed by the Human Torch lol

[Iron Maiden]

Don't listen to everybody else; Millar's FF is awesome. Although this IS my first FF writer (besides JMS's issues in the Road to Civil War TPB), and also my favorite writer, so I'm a little biased. If you loved Ultimates, than you'll like this. I'm still not a big fan of the FF, but I like what Millar is doing. .


And therein lies the rub... generally speaking, those who are FF fans first are not on board with it. For example, it says a lot when the fellow who runs FFplaza.com, a cyber friend of mine, has such distaste for the current state of affairs that he doesn't even bother with it anymore. This is a guy who owns everything since FF#1 and a lot of offshoots. A number of "old timers" at an FF board I moderate have either dropped it or just Byrne steal it.

Millar's writing is what bothers me...the sudden proposal to Debbie by Ben, a character that is so underdeveloped we don't even care because Millar doesn't seem to care too much about her either. Why not show the scene where Ben met her family instead of just talk about it? And it's just now dawning on her that her life is going to be dramatically different with Ben? There's just no depth there.

Like another poster says, there's a fight between Doom and the new Defenders... and we don't even see it! Forty assorted superheroes knocked out by Robocap and we don't see that either. But they all magically get revived at the same time.

But most of all, he's screwed the pooch with Doom and this addition to his backstory of having a master. It's a poor way to retro-fit your new character into the Marvel Universe. OOOOO, he's so bad, Doom is scared of him! They destroy planets with the wave of a hand. Smells too much like Abraxas and his campaign to destroy the multiverses.


Hitch's art in my opinion has dropped in quality, but not by much. I think it's because he has to get the issues in on time, so he can't spend as much time as he did on Ultimates. Plus, I think Paul Mounts colors don't really work for Hitch.

I agree and usually Mounts does nicely on other titles, with the late Mike Wieringo especially on his run on the FF. Hitch has been inconsistent to me. At times Sue looks pretty good but there's one image of her early in the run when her nose looks like an anteater's. The splash page of the infamous 40 superheroes was a confusing mess especially when it occured around the time of Mark Bagley's much better splash page in MA last year when the Avengers stormed Castle Doom.