The final fate of Tim Drake

[HopeLantern]

In anticipation of the final issue of "Robin" coming out this week, as well as Battle For the Cowl, what would you like to see ultimately happen to Tim Drake? Although Dick Grayson seems to be highly favored to win BFTC, it is still possible that he does not want the title of "Batman", especially given that he feels that Bruce/Batman are irreplaceable. Tim has a different philosophy and will think Gotham needs a Batman. However, some readers take issue with Tim assuming the mantle given his age, stated to be around 17.

After BFTC, what would you like to see happen with Tim Drake, and why? Personally, I'd love for Tim to become the new "Nightwing". I think that might allow for a lot of unique stories to follow with Tim stepping into his own and becoming a type of amalgamation between Dick and Bruce.

[HeckBoy]

In anticipation of the final issue of "Robin" coming out this week, as well as Battle For the Cowl, what would you like to see ultimately happen to Tim Drake? Although Dick Grayson seems to be highly favored to win BFTC, it is still possible that he does not want the title of "Batman", especially given that he feels that Bruce/Batman are irreplaceable. Tim has a different philosophy and will think Gotham needs a Batman. However, some readers take issue with Tim assuming the mantle given his age, stated to be around 17.

After BFTC, what would you like to see happen with Tim Drake, and why? Personally, I'd love for Time to become the new "Nightwing". I think that might allow for a lot of unique stories to follow with Tim stepping into his own and becoming a type of amalgamation between Dick and Bruce.As much as I like Tim as Robin right now, I think it'd be nice to see him "graduate" to a more mature identity to fit his seemingly new philosophy on crime fighting. I don't know what he'd be call, but he should get his own original identity for once instead of "replacing" a Nightwing or even Red Robin.

[Matt-M-McElroy]

Red Robin would cool with me, even in a "part-time" supporting role where he helps out when something big is going on or others are off doing something out-of-town.

-Matt

[Cayman]

Tim's a great Robin. At this point in the character's history, I wouldn't really want to see him assume a new role.

[Red Lotus]

In anticipation of the final issue of "Robin" coming out this week, as well as Battle For the Cowl, what would you like to see ultimately happen to Tim Drake? Although Dick Grayson seems to be highly favored to win BFTC, it is still possible that he does not want the title of "Batman", especially given that he feels that Bruce/Batman are irreplaceable. Tim has a different philosophy and will think Gotham needs a Batman. However, some readers take issue with Tim assuming the mantle given his age, stated to be around 17.

After BFTC, what would you like to see happen with Tim Drake, and why? Personally, I'd love for Tim to become the new "Nightwing". I think that might allow for a lot of unique stories to follow with Tim stepping into his own and becoming a type of amalgamation between Dick and Bruce.


I kind of see it playing out that way. Dick doesn't want to be Batman and doesn't think anyone should replace Bruce. Tim thinks Dick should be the new Batman. Then during BFTC because some thing happens to Tim, Nightwing will see that he has to be Batman. I just dont see BFTC ending with out Tim or Dick being killed off or being put on the side lines for awhile. Forcing the other to be Batman.

[Brian Cronin]

I like Tim as Robin, but it really does appear as though Red Robin is his future.

-Brian

[Rev. Calibos]

I would like Tim to remain as Robin for the time being.

He's 'graduated' into a greater role by being the best Robin possible......which is all he wanted to do in the first place.


Nightwing was always the one that was being groomed to take up the mantle of Batman should anything happen to Bruce and should that be the result of BFTC Dick's going to need Tim to continue filling that role.

[Don't pee in the (Dead)pool]

I voted for Tim becoming Batman.
I know it's not the popular choice but I certainly think it would shake the Bat-mythos up--- a lot.
Tim is now approaching the age at which Bruce first set out as Batman. Bruce has already said that Tim's detective skills far surpass his own at that age. Bruce has personally passed on his skills and training to Tim aswell as Dick.
Dick's the popular choice to replace Bruce as Batman, I'll admit that, but Tim would be the better choice for me.
Dick's worn the mantle before, it's Tim's turn now.

[B. Kuwanger]

I see Bruce as Batman and Tim as Robin, and my hope is that things will change as little as possible.

[ojjo]

From what ive seen in origins and omens from nightwing, dick will be bats with damian as robin + Nightwing series wont continue, but red robin was announced as a new series.
Im guessing thats Red Robin's Tim, since it wouldn't make sence to make dick red robin and abandon the nightwing identity and jason isnt popular enuff to suport a series of his own.

Just my thought in it all

[Super Buddies Forever]

It feels like they've been setting up Tim to be Batman over the last few years. They killed his father, they killed Spoiler (albeit undone when they realized what a cock-up that situation was), and they killed Superboy. They've brought tragedy to a character that didn't have it before, that was motivated to be Robin solely based on his desire to do good and his adulation of Batman.

So based off what appears to be long-term planning, Tim is going to be Batman. So of course, this means that Tim will be killed off. He was introduced in the '90s, after all, and we've got to have a dead Robin somewhere in the canon.

[nepenthes]

yeah he's gonna be Red Robin, as cheesy as that sounds. I just hope they redesign the costume.

[Spiffy]

For me its either the "Robin" or "Nightwing" resolutions, since "Red Robin" is a joke and I just won't buy a Batman his age.

That said, I've had this awful fear that what they might ACTUALLY do is sacrifice him. A dead Tim being the goad to drive Dick into obsessive Batman mode. Of course he'd likely not STAY dead for more than a few years, but OH the outrage it will create on the Internet, and maybe even some mass media buzz.

[Mac]

After BftC, I'm seeing Tim become a lot more angsty and what not, pushing him to become Red Robin.
Tim's certainly gotten enough time as Robin and him moving away from the sidekick role is definitely becoming more of an issue. However, I don't see Tim becoming Batman just yet. Not that he couldn't, but he really doesn't seem 'ready' for it. What with the aforementioned newer angsty "I'm a superhero, I do what I want" persona.

[Seraku]

Red Robin, obviously.

Also why is the first one an option?
http://comics.ign.com/articles/952/952432p1.html

New Robin after Tim Drake? Yes.

[Sizzle]

I just don't understand all the unnecessary change. Tim is a great Robin, he's very popular and has carried Robin, Young Justice, and Teen Titans during his tenure.

Didio is running DC into the ground. Way too many changes that were for no reason. Jason should be dead! Barrys sacrifice in COIE should of stood and he should not be back. Bart should of never been the Flash.

I hope after it's all said and done, the Robin at Batman's side in Batman #700 should be Tim.

[Captain Jim]

While I'm perfectly happy to have him remain as Robin, I don't think that's going to happen. I definitely don't want to see him as Batman. I could accept him as Red Robin (and would actually prefer him in that role over Jason Todd) or any other new identity, as long as they don't kill him off--which would make me very, very upset.

[Mac]

I think it would be completely anti-climatic and down right stupid to kill off Tim at this point. After all the recent character build up in Search For A Hero, it seems like they're pointing for Tim to develop into a more mature, complicated hero who's developing some questionable hero ethics.
They've basically been hinting at Robin evolving into RR, so for BftC to kill off Tim would just be....again, stupid. Although it wouldn't be surprising for Didio to order a body count and say Tim needs to be included.
I certainly think Daniel is going to surely impress with this story, I doubt he'll need a body count to do that.

[Spiffy]

While I'm perfectly happy to have him remain as Robin, I don't think that's going to happen. I definitely don't want to see him as Batman. I could accept him as Red Robin (and would actually prefer him in that role over Jason Todd) or any other new identity, as long as they don't kill him off--which would make me very, very upset.
I'm curious Jim, what you see as the defining qualities of Red Robin vs. Robin? Have we ever gotten a very good explanation of why such a person is necessary?

And it makes we wonder how this character is going to be unchained from the crapped up history given to it by Jason Todd. I don't think it CAN be. One appearance by Robin LOOKING Red Robinish in his own book certainly has suggested this direction for the character, but it still doesn't do much to tell me WHY they are going this direction and what they hope to accomplish.

[Seraku]

most people (re: non regular readers) inherently look at Robin and think a joke (re: that Family Guy joke, the movies), so they likely see upgrading Tim as the natural next step, and they figure they might as well use Alex Ross' old design instead of making him the new Nightwing.

[Deathstroke]

I vote for Tim staying as Robin.

I would think he's too young to take over as Batman and since we never know what DC is going to do to Nightwing I can't see voting for Tim taking over that identity.

[HopeLantern]

For me its either the "Robin" or "Nightwing" resolutions, since "Red Robin" is a joke and I just won't buy a Batman his age.

That said, I've had this awful fear that what they might ACTUALLY do is sacrifice him. A dead Tim being the goad to drive Dick into obsessive Batman mode. Of course he'd likely not STAY dead for more than a few years, but OH the outrage it will create on the Internet, and maybe even some mass media buzz.


Yeah, that's actually my fear, too. Jason Todd fought Tim a few issues ago in "Robin" and wildly attacked him. Also there is the line in Batman #666, which Barbara says in reference to Damien "causing the death of a good friend", which I always took to be Tim, not Dick. I'm hoping they go with the Tim as "Nightwing" option as previously stated, but I'm predicting Tim actually wins BFTC but gets seriously wounded, forcing Dick's hand.

After the BFTC panel, I have a lot more confidence in Daniels pulling off a great story. But I'm not sure what the whole "Red Robin" thing is yet. If it is Jason Todd, I'm surprised Didio thinks he could support a series on his own although he will be a major player in BFTC. If "Red Robin" turns out to be Tim... I suppose that too could be an epic telling of the "next phase" of Tim's life. I just think the "Nightwing" concept is cool, and that the identity shouldn't just disappear from DC mythos.

[stillanerd]

The way I think things are going, I think it will be revealed that Tim Drake believes that he was being groomed personally by Bruce to become his successor as Batman in case anything happened to him, but that Dick Grayson trumps him because he thinks Tim is still too young and not ready for that kind of responsibility and burden (which could be the reason given as to why Nightwing becomes the "new Batman" because even though he doesn't want it, he feels it's not only necessary but that no one else is ready for the job). So Tim ends up adopting the Red Robin identity. I initially thought it would go to Jason Todd, but recent previews from Battle for the Cowl clearly show he's become the gun-totting "Batman."

And remember what Red Robin was intended as in Kingdom Come. According to Mark Waid and Alex Ross, Red Robin was essentially their version of a "grown-up Robin" one that honored his beginnings as Robin but also had a more Batman quality to make him more intimidating (Ross basically said the Red Robin mask was basically the one from the Tim Burton Batman movie without the pointy ears). So considering that Tim has become darker over time, almost becoming a "Batman Jr." but is still too young to actually be Batman, him being Red Robin could be a compromise.

[Grievous]

I just think the "Nightwing" concept is cool, and that the identity shouldn't just disappear from DC mythos.

It's not - the Kryptonian Nightwing is going to be a focus of Action Comics. I think that makes it even more likely the identity will be retired, at least for now, in the bat family.

[shaxper]

I think the logical development would be for Tim to become Red Robin or take on a similar persona that pays homage to his roots yet is an entity apart from Batman. Tim's development in his own title as of late has focused on the tremendous change that he's undertaken. He has grown up quickly and either needs to become his own man or snap back into boyhood with Bruce's return. Continuing on the middle road would be frustrating.

As much as Robin has always been my favorite character, regardless of who's behind the mask, the concept has outlived its usefulness. Batman no longer benefits from having a Robin and Robin clearly no longer needs a Batman.

Then again, DC never does what's logical...

[Choppa]

It's not - the Kryptonian Nightwing is going to be a focus of Action Comics. I think that makes it even more likely the identity will be retired, at least for now, in the bat family.

Isn't that where Dick got the name from?

[Choppa]

Leave him as Robin. There's a whole new generation of kids who associate Tim with Robin from Teen Titans, it would just be stupid to get rid of him in that role. But if they have to change that, give him a break, really. There's too many young crime fighters running around in the bat-verse anyway.

[Grievous]

Isn't that where Dick got the name from?

Technically, but this is not the same guy though. Supposedly the new NW has a surprising identity.

I am not saying they can't both coexist (the NW from Action Comics and one in the Bat titles), rather that DC will use it as an excuse. It just sounds like something they would do.

[gorthon616]

It would be kind of interesting, if they both took on the role of "Batman" feeling that they are worthy successors (plus, doesn't really make a difference if there are two roaming around?).

However, Tim and Dick both have very different viewpoints of what the world needs. Tim likely leaning towards a sort of modern paranoia vibe, where he walks more questionable lines to preserve the greater good. Dick being more restrained and conventional, reminiscent of the "good old days."

At first, they work mutually share the Batman resources, but as time goes on conflicts between the two arise and it suddenly comes to a head. Which is around when Bruce comes back.

I highly doubt I am right, but it was just a thought.

[Spiffy]

Technically, but this is not the same guy though. Supposedly the new NW has a surprising identity.
Connor Kent is a surprising identity? Not that I'm working off any conclusions based on actual spoilers, but people have been yap-yaping with the Connor Kent = Nu Nightwing, Linda Danvers = Nu Flamebird conclusions for a while now.

[Henker]

I'm guessing he's going to stay as Robin. He's good in that role, and fans accept him (unlike Jason Todd).

[Captain Jim]

In my earlier post, I neglected to say that I really can't see Tim becoming Nightwing. There just doesn't seem to be any reason for it. Nightwing doesn't really have a legend that has to be maintained, unlike Batman. And the fact that we're getting a new Nightwing in Action Comics at the same time that Dick's book is cancelled makes it all the more unlikely.

At first I thought Tim would become Red Robin, based on his brief time in that costume in the previous issue of his book. But he was back in his regular Robin costume by the end. And Lying in the Gutters, when they originally predicted the Red Robin title, said it would feature Jason Todd. And so far, it's been right on everything about this (which isn't to say that DC couldn't have changed their mind on this over the last several months).

However, since we know we are getting a Red Robin title, I'm hoping it's Tim, because I really don't care for Jason and don't think he needs an ongoing title.

[shaxper]

I'd be amazed if they're going to have Tim continue as Robin and Jason become Red Robin. Visually, the characters are too redundant. It would be interesting to see the two team up, though. Tim has been more and more Jason-like in the past few issues. I'd like to see him use Jason as a sounding board for his own development while Jason seeks some form of redemption with Tim's help. Could make for an excellent limited series if done right.

[Grievous]

Connor Kent is a surprising identity? Not that I'm working off any conclusions based on actual spoilers, but people have been yap-yaping with the Connor Kent = Nu Nightwing, Linda Danvers = Nu Flamebird conclusions for a while now.

I actually have not been following the discussions, I was unaware Connor is the front runner. I just remember an article stating that it was going to be surprising.

[Spiffy]

I actually have not been following the discussions, I was unaware Connor is the front runner. I just remember an article stating that it was going to be surprising.
Nu Nightwing appears to have tactile telekinesis. Nu Flamebird appears to be able to shoot flames out of her hands.

In other words, if they want this to be "surprising" they aren't doing a very good job of it so far.

Unless this is the biggest fake out ever.

[Buried Alien]

I'd be amazed if they're going to have Tim continue as Robin and Jason become Red Robin. Visually, the characters are too redundant. It would be interesting to see the two team up, though. Tim has been more and more Jason-like in the past few issues. I'd like to see him use Jason as a sounding board for his own development while Jason seeks some form of redemption with Tim's help. Could make for an excellent limited series if done right.

Jason and Tim would make for an interesting dynamic (duo) because among the Robins, they have interacted the least. Just a few years ago, such a scenario was unthinkable.

When Jason was Robin, he had interactions with Dick from time to time. We understood the relationship between the first two Robins (at turns friendly and fraternal and adversarial and strained). Although reluctant to accept Jason as his successor at first, Dick took a big brother approach to Jason and was genuinely devastated when he learned of Jason's demise.

What of Tim's relationship with Jason? So far, nothing substantial has been established. In his early years as Robin, Tim learned to respect his predecessor (because of the ultimate price he paid as the previous Robin), but also to learn from Jason's shortcomings. Since Jason's return, they've only fought each other. We have yet to see how a calm, nonconfrontational, nonhostile interaction between these two Robins would go.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[MrPalen]

Ugg the mere fact that Jason Todd is running around alive stops me from getting into this stuff.

[nepenthes]

Since Jason's return, they've only fought each other. We have yet to see how a calm, nonconfrontational, nonhostile interaction between these two Robins would go.

yeah this is what I'd like to see

[Ben Reilly#6]

I'd really prefer it if Tim kept the mantle of Robin indefinitely. Of all the holders of the title, of all the people that think Robin's a permenant sidekick position, Tim's really made the role his own. I really can't imagine anyone else taking over for him. Especially not Damian.

Unfortunately I know DC doesn't feel the same way, so if they really feel the need to "upgrade" him, at least let him become Red Robin, and don't pull any fast ones on us (as in, kill him off).

And here's an odd thought: what if instead of killing him off, he winds up getting crippled and becomes Oracle's assistant/replacement? I really hope that's not the case, but if it suddenly occured to me, I know it's already passed through the mind of someone at DC.

[Choppa]

Technically, but this is not the same guy though. Supposedly the new NW has a surprising identity.

I am not saying they can't both coexist (the NW from Action Comics and one in the Bat titles), rather that DC will use it as an excuse. It just sounds like something they would do.

No I meant didn't Dick get the name Nightwing from the original one from the Superman universe? Not the new one.

Also, as for Conner, if you read the back up in Adventure #0 it shows Conner reemerging from the dead presumably as part of Blackest Night.

[HopeLantern]

A spoiler thread for Robin 183 is up now here (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=257816). After reading it, I've changed my opinion. I think Tim will become the new Red Robin.

[Will J.]

I'd be cool with him becoming Red Robin.

Actually, as long as he's around period, I'll be reading.

[nepenthes]

^ that's what the ending seems to imply. and if the signals are correct and Dick Grayson is NOT the new Batman, where left with none other than.....Jason Todd?

[nepenthes]

after the Battle of the Cowl teaser poster was released i couldn't help thinking how cool it would be if Tim and Harley became a new Dynamic Duo together

[shadejford]

Tim should get his own original code name. He should form a personna that's entirely his own. And because of his past, he will always be a part of "The Batman Family." I like how he's been using the Bat-Signal to make people think Batman is still keeping an eye on things.

[nepenthes]

I agree. a new bird related identity would be far better than Red Robin. why an Elseworlds Alex Ross version from ten years ago is the automatic default I don't understand. I thought the Coutdown would have killed it for good. someone better have a good reason.

[celticguy]

Tim should get his own original code name. He should form a personna that's entirely his own. And because of his past, he will always be a part of "The Batman Family." I like how he's been using the Bat-Signal to make people think Batman is still keeping an eye on things.

you know Arsenal is just sittingthere I think it is a great superhero name. Maybe Tim or Jason could pick up that mantle once everyting shakes out and Bruce is back. Assuming Damien become Robin otherwise Time should stay Robin for life.

Edit and if neither of them use Arsenal maybe conor hawke should.

[Accroître]

I would like to see him as Batman and Dick as Red Robin. Jason could die by falling on a pencil - I think that is a worthy death for him.

[Spiffy]

I would like to see him as Batman and Dick as Red Robin. Jason could die by falling on a pencil - I think that is a worthy death for him.

Yes! Dick as Red Robin! That's a suggestion I haven't seen yet! Good show! :rolleyes:

I also nominate Harvey Dent as the new Nightwing. And Cassandra Cain can murder Steph and become the new Spoiler, when Babs takes back Batgirl. The new Oracle will be the pencil who murdered Jason, which is secretly the Calculator's brain, digitized, and shoved into a pencil shaped memory module.

[Captain Jim]

you know Arsenal is just sittingthere I think it is a great superhero name. Maybe Tim or Jason could pick up that mantle once everyting shakes out and Bruce is back. Assuming Damien become Robin otherwise Time should stay Robin for life.

Edit and if neither of them use Arsenal maybe conor hawke should.

I don't think the name Arsnel fits any of the bat-crew, seeing that they don't use weapons. I'd rather see Roy take the name back; "Red Arrow" sucks.

[40footwolf]

I really hope he'll become Batman.

That kid has earned it.