Barbara Gordon poll

[frostedone]

Would you like her to become Batgirl again if she gets healed?

Personally I wouldn't mind it if she got healed but i do NOT want her to be Batgirl again. It would be a step backwards for her. You wouldn't see Dick Grayson become Robin again.

Besides Cassandra Cain is a great Batgirl.

[Liberty Belle Fan]

Never liked Oracle - I'm fine with being part of the Internet minority and saying Please bring back Batgirl.

[nepenthes]

Heal

stay as Oracle

[jester1436]

I can't say I have any interest in her becoming Batgirl again. I probably would get an "All-Star Batgirl" with her in it, but otherwise, it just seems like a backwards step since she redefined herself outside of being a Bat.

And ability/disability wise, I just don't think comics have enough well represented disabled characters. I think of Professor Xavier in the X-Men, whose ability to walk has been yanked back and forth, over and over for years. Disability is an identity fragment that gets so little attention in comic books and Oracle is really the only character to effectively pull it off for me.

[DonC]

John Ostrander struck gold when he made Barbara Oracle. But I would read Barbara's past adventures over Cassandra Cain any day of the week. Cain does nothing for me.

[Den]

Heal her, let her stay as Oracle. No reason in a comic book universe that she can't use wireless in a high tech cowl to do a bit of rooftop crime fighting AND still be connected to the network.

[Rev. Calibos]

Never thought I'd say this but I want to keep her in the chair as Oracle.

She's made a much greater impact as Oracle then she ever could have as Batgirl and she brings much more to the table as Oracle then she ever could as Batgirl.

As Batgirl she's just one more street level vigilante who can join Nightwing, Robin, Jason Todd, Batwoman, Batgirl, Huntress, etc.

How many bruisers does the Bat family need, lol?

She's a much more interesting character as Oracle and is far more useful to the franchise in her current role. Giving her her legs back and putting her back into costume would be pointless.

[Alex Smith]

John Ostrander struck gold when he made Barbara Oracle. But I would read Barbara's past adventures over Cassandra Cain any day of the week. Cain does nothing for me.

My thoughts exactly.

[DLH1970]

It's amazing to me that people assume putting Babs back in costume and walking would be the end to her abilities as Oracle. Her computer skills are a part of her character now. That shouldn't change just because she could walk.

Leaving her in the wheelchair keeps her in a supporting role to other characters 90% of the the time. Putting her back into costume (as Batgirl or Oracle) will focus her back as a main character. There are a lot of layers to Babs that would make more interesting then just another costumed member of the Bat family.

[Rev. Calibos]

It's amazing to me that people assume putting Babs back in costume and walking would be the end to her abilities as Oracle. Her computer skills are a part of her character now. That shouldn't change just because she could walk.

Leaving her in the wheelchair keeps her in a supporting role to other characters 90% of the the time. Putting her back into costume (as Batgirl or Oracle) will focus her back as a main character. There are a lot of layers to Babs that would make more interesting then just another costumed member of the Bat family.



The thing is......putting her back into costume makes her one amongst many (Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, Batwoman, Huntress, etc....) but as Oracle she has an entire niche all on her own.


Allowing her to regain the use of her legs won't take away the skills she plies as Oracle but I can't see what benefit there is in adding one more body into the already stuffed Bat Family.

She fills a unique role in the DCU and that is part of the reason why Birds of Prey has lasted 125+ issues. She was never a supporting character in that book, she was the lead. (at least that's my impression of it) She had a number of field agents but the most important, most vital part of that book was Barbara.

Without her there was no BoP. They could have had any number of female supporting characters join the book, it wouldn't have been the same at all without Oracle filling the role she's best suited for.

[Cayman]

The thing is......putting her back into costume makes her one amongst many (Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, Batwoman, Huntress, etc....) but as Oracle she has an entire niche all on her own.


Allowing her to regain the use of her legs won't take away the skills she plies as Oracle but I can't see what benefit there is in adding one more body into the already stuffed Bat Family.

She fills a unique role in the DCU and that is part of the reason why Birds of Prey has lasted 125+ issues. She was never a supporting character in that book, she was the lead. (at least that's my impression of it) She had a number of field agents but the most important, most vital part of that book was Barbara.

Without her there was no BoP. They could have had any number of female supporting characters join the book, it wouldn't have been the same at all without Oracle filling the role she's best suited for.

BoP ends this week. It's time for Barbara to move on to the next stage of her life which should be to reclaim her Batgirl identity.

[Rev. Calibos]

BoP ends this week. It's time for Barbara to move on to the next stage of her life which should be to reclaim her Batgirl identity.


That identity is being filled by someone else at present who, if we recall, received a full blessing from Barbara to use the moniker.

Barbara 'reclaiming' the her identity as Batgirl wouldn't be the next stage in her life, it would be revisiting a former stage of her life, one that has already passed.

She's a better, more well rounded character as Oracle.

Consider this.....what would benefit Gotham more....a Batgirl who's a decade removed from not only physical combat but from walking returning to patrol the streets along side Nightwing....and Robin.....and Batgirl....and Batwoman.....and Jason Todd.....and Huntress..... and Spoiler.....or an Oracle who can continue filling a vital role to not only Gotham but all of the DCU?

They've got more than enough bodies on the street.....they need someone like Oracle to be the brain of the organization more than ever with Bruce out of the picture.

She'll do more good in that capacity than she ever could putting the tights back on.

[Cayman]

That identity is being filled by someone else at present who, if we recall, received a full blessing from Barbara to use the moniker.

Barbara 'reclaiming' the her identity as Batgirl wouldn't be the next stage in her life, it would be revisiting a former stage of her life, one that has already passed.

She's a better, more well rounded character as Oracle.

Consider this.....what would benefit Gotham more....a Batgirl who's a decade removed from not only physical combat but from walking returning to patrol the streets along side Nightwing....and Robin.....and Batgirl....and Batwoman.....and Jason Todd.....and Huntress..... and Spoiler.....or an Oracle who can continue filling a vital role to not only Gotham but all of the DCU?

They've got more than enough bodies on the street.....they need someone like Oracle to be the brain of the organization more than ever with Bruce out of the picture.

She'll do more good in that capacity than she ever could putting the tights back on.

There's no reason Barbara cannot fulfill the function of Oracle while also being Batgirl. She's not a decade removed from physical combat - she has continued to train and has had to fight for herself in recent times.

As Batgirl, we will see Barbara in an ongoing book. As Oracle, we'll see the character pop up occasionally in books whenever a superhero needs to google something.

Jason Todd and Cassandra are both completely unnecessary.

[FemGeek]

There's no reason Barbara cannot fulfill the function of Oracle while also being Batgirl. She's not a decade removed from physical combat - she has continued to train and has had to fight for herself in recent times.

As Batgirl, we will see Barbara in an ongoing book. As Oracle, we'll see the character pop up occasionally in books whenever a superhero needs to google something.

Jason Todd and Cassandra are both completely unnecessary.

Realistically she would have a very, very difficult time fighting with the use of her legs again, and even find it difficult walking. Despite keeping fit and training regularly, she can't move her legs, at all, so the muscles are wasted, the nerves are numb, she is unused to movement. She would also have to get reaquainted with her centre of gravity and her posture.
As Oracle, she has a role. If she returned to Batgirl she would really only have die-hard Babs-Batgirl fans, the character is too gimicky and outdated for the modern Batverse. And in her current role, she's seen a lot of action, throughout the DCU, most notably in BoP. She's not a character that will be sidelined.
And i don't know much about Jason Todd, but Cass isn't an unnecessary character. She's Batgirl, and a damn good one at that. Modern, unique and alot of potential (if not being ruined).

[Rev. Calibos]

There's no reason Barbara cannot fulfill the function of Oracle while also being Batgirl. She's not a decade removed from physical combat - she has continued to train and has had to fight for herself in recent times.

Right, from the confines of her wheelchair, a wheelchair that she will no longer be using should she regain the use of her legs.

There's a world of difference in the sort of hand to hand combat she is accustomed to wheelchair bound and the type of combat she'll experience as Batgirl again, no?



As Batgirl, we will see Barbara in an ongoing book. As Oracle, we'll see the character pop up occasionally in books whenever a superhero needs to google something.

In BoP Oracle was the lead character in an ongoing book and was able to hold that title together nicely for 125+ issues.

In her previous identity of Batgirl.....not so much, lol.

A few guest spots in Detective/Batman......popped up in DC Comics Presents I think......oh, gave Supergirl's eulogy in the Crisis.

Nothing else is coming to mind.


Jason Todd and Cassandra are both completely unnecessary.

Yet they're both there and both figure heavily into BFTC.

So, again, what does more good.....a Barbara Gordon contributing as Oracle, a vital role that's she's held for some time now......or after the 'shazam' moment when she can walk again, a Barbara throwing on some tights after and joining the dozen other crime fighters that are already out there?

Keeping in mind to that unless 'shazam' they magically allow her to grow accustomed to standing/walking/running/leaping/etc. again instantly there's going to be a period where she's going to be useless as she's going to have to re-acclimate herself with having her legs back.

[Cayman]

Right, from the confines of her wheelchair, a wheelchair that she will no longer be using should she regain the use of her legs.

There's a world of difference in the sort of hand to hand combat she is accustomed to wheelchair bound and the type of combat she'll experience as Batgirl again, no?





In BoP Oracle was the lead character in an ongoing book and was able to hold that title together nicely for 125+ issues.

In her previous identity of Batgirl.....not so much, lol.

A few guest spots in Detective/Batman......popped up in DC Comics Presents I think......oh, gave Supergirl's eulogy in the Crisis.

Nothing else is coming to mind.




Yet they're both there and both figure heavily into BFTC.

So, again, what does more good.....a Barbara Gordon contributing as Oracle, a vital role that's she's held for some time now......or after the 'shazam' moment when she can walk again, a Barbara throwing on some tights after and joining the dozen other crime fighters that are already out there?

Keeping in mind to that unless 'shazam' they magically allow her to grow accustomed to standing/walking/running/leaping/etc. again instantly there's going to be a period where she's going to be useless as she's going to have to re-acclimate herself with having her legs back.

Barbara can train to get back in action. She is focused and in good shape. Dozens of superheroes have quickly recovered from injuries that in the real world would keep them sidelines. Hell, Batman should be unable to move given how many injuries he suffers.

[Cayman]

Realistically she would have a very, very difficult time fighting with the use of her legs again, and even find it difficult walking. Despite keeping fit and training regularly, she can't move her legs, at all, so the muscles are wasted, the nerves are numb, she is unused to movement. She would also have to get reaquainted with her centre of gravity and her posture.
As Oracle, she has a role. If she returned to Batgirl she would really only have die-hard Babs-Batgirl fans, the character is too gimicky and outdated for the modern Batverse. And in her current role, she's seen a lot of action, throughout the DCU, most notably in BoP. She's not a character that will be sidelined.
And i don't know much about Jason Todd, but Cass isn't an unnecessary character. She's Batgirl, and a damn good one at that. Modern, unique and alot of potential (if not being ruined).

No more gimmicky than Nightwing or Robin or Cassandra or anybody other superhero.

[Rev. Calibos]

Barbara can train to get back in action. She is focused and in good shape. Dozens of superheroes have quickly recovered from injuries that in the real world would keep them sidelines. Hell, Batman should be unable to move given how many injuries he suffers.

Yet he returns from those injuries to the state he was in before.....namely an Olympic caliber athlete.

Barbara has spent many, MANY years in a wheelchair.That's her condition currently, that's her 'default' state at this point.

Bruce 'comes back' from his multiple, frequent injuries because he's in remarkable shape, his 'default' state is strong enough that coming back to it is relatively simple.

Barbara is in good shape......well, the top half of her is in remarkable shape.

Her 'default' state is 'lower body doesn't operate'.

Losing her legs wasn't just a simply injury.....it changed her life.

Figure this, even with a 'shazam' moment returning her to the land of the walking, she has to learn how to WALK again. Her upper body is in fine shape, now she just has to figure out how to leap from a tall building and use her utility rope to swing to the next rooftop........oh, she should probably get comfortable with 'running' first before she attempts patrols.....

She CAN do it....the question is whether or not she'll be able to do it during BFTC .....which should be a 'no'.

[Cayman]

Yet he returns from those injuries to the state he was in before.....namely an Olympic caliber athlete.

Barbara has spent many, MANY years in a wheelchair.That's her condition currently, that's her 'default' state at this point.

Bruce 'comes back' from his multiple, frequent injuries because he's in remarkable shape, his 'default' state is strong enough that coming back to it is relatively simple.

Barbara is in good shape......well, the top half of her is in remarkable shape.

Her 'default' state is 'lower body doesn't operate'.

Losing the loss of her legs wasn't just a simply injury.....it changed her life.

Figure this, even with a 'shazam' moment returning her to the land of the walking, she has to learn how to WALK again. Her upper body is in fine shape, now she just has to figure out how to leap from a tall building and use her utility rope to swing to the next rooftop........oh, she should probably get comfortable with 'running' first before she attempts patrols.....

She CAN do it....the question is whether or not she'll be able to do it during BFTC .....which should be a 'no'.

Barbara re-learning to use her legs can be part of what makes her book an interesting read.

[zomg]

There's no reason Barbara cannot fulfill the function of Oracle while also being Batgirl.
It's amazing to me that people assume putting Babs back in costume and walking would be the end to her abilities as Oracle.

Right, do tell how the Oracle is suppose to help the DCU when she's beating up some low level thugs in a Gotham alley while someone is hacking the JLA database?

I'm sorry I can't see how someone can be the Oracle and yet at night be Batgirl considering being Oracle seems like a 24h job. Furthermore I really don't see how being Batgirl adds to the character.

[Cayman]

Right, do tell how the Oracle is suppose to help the DCU when she's beating up some low level thugs in a Gotham alley while someone is hacking the JLA database?

I'm sorry I can't see how someone can be the Oracle and yet at night be Batgirl considering being Oracle seems like a 24h job. Furthermore I really don't see how being Batgirl adds to the character.

Computing is very mobile these days. Barbara can access her computers from a variety of locations. She could also take on Wendy as an apprentice so that there is always someone there to maintain the control system.

Batgirl can continue to have the international focus she had when coordinating Dinah and the lesser agents. I don't see Batgirl spending her time fighting street crime in Gotham as her experiences as Oracle have opened her eyes to injustices all over the world, and she has a great pilot in Zinda.

[Rev. Calibos]

Barbara re-learning to use her legs can be part of what makes her book an interesting read.

If they go that route.......but I'm betting that we'll immediately see her, from Jump Street, taking out multiple opponents, breaking up robberies etc. with maybe some small mistakes and a thought balloon reading (careful Barbara.....we have to get used to this again.......) without any time spent on the actual re-hab.

Meanwhile.....you could have a fantastic series called 'Oracle' that could give Barbara her SECOND title to star in that would showcase her serving the DCU in the capacity that she's filled for some time now while she trains to grow accustomed to regaining the use of her legs again.

But fans and DC don't want that.....they want a return to the old costume regardless of how strong of a character she's become WITHOUT the cowl.

[DLH1970]

In BoP Oracle was the lead character in an ongoing book and was able to hold that title together nicely for 125+ issues.

In her previous identity of Batgirl.....not so much, lol.

A few guest spots in Detective/Batman......popped up in DC Comics Presents I think......oh, gave Supergirl's eulogy in the Crisis.

Nothing else is coming to mind.

BoP has always been an ensemble book. Oracle has been used well because Babs is a great character, but I could argue that Black Canary was more of the lead as far as action goes most of the time. I for one would like to see the focus go solely to Babs, instead of reading .... Oracle sends BC on a Mission, Oracle gives Nightwing info on a suspect, Oracle gives Batman an address. That is what a supporting character does.

[Cayman]

If they go that route.......but I'm betting that we'll immediately see her, from Jump Street, taking out multiple opponents, breaking up robberies etc. with maybe some small mistakes and a thought balloon reading (careful Barbara.....we have to get used to this again.......) without any time spent on the actual re-hab.

Meanwhile.....you could have a fantastic series called 'Oracle' that could give Barbara her SECOND title to star in that would showcase her serving the DCU in the capacity that she's filled for some time now while she trains to grow accustomed to regaining the use of her legs again.

But fans and DC don't want that.....they want a return to the old costume regardless of how strong of a character she's become WITHOUT the cowl.

Well, yes, because the identity of Batgirl is a great, iconic and beloved one. The experiences Barbara has had as Oracle and in BoP will make her an even better Batgirl than she was before the shooting. She is now a master of technology and a strong coordinator and leader. I don't believe an Oracle series would sell. Frankly, watching someone sit at a computer is not that interesting. Many of us already spend our days sitting at a computer at work.

[Rev. Calibos]

Well, yes, because the identity of Batgirl is a great, iconic and beloved one. The experiences Barbara has had as Oracle and in BoP will make her an even better Batgirl than she was before the shooting. She is now a master of technology and a strong coordinator and leader. I don't believe an Oracle series would sell. Frankly, watching someone sit at a computer is not that interesting. Many of us already spend our days sitting at a computer at work.



That's the thing though, the Oracle title DID sell and it sold well for 125+ issues.

Birds of Prey, team book or no, revolved around our former Batgirl Barbara Gordon.

She got top billing in that book and it sold pretty well and lasted long past what I thought it was going to when I heard about its debut.

[zomg]

Computing is very mobile these days. Barbara can access her computers from a variety of locations. She could also take on Wendy as an apprentice so that there is always someone there to maintain the control system.While surfing and checking your email is very mobile these day I can't say the same for hacking governmental databases. And why not take an apprentice as Batgirl instead of Oracle, in fact why not have her in a mentor role for Batgirl similar to Bruce and Terry in Batman Beyond? Works perfectly IMO.

Also I still haven't seen a proper answer: what would add to Barbara Gordon's character if she's Batgirl again? Absolutely nothing.

[Rev. Calibos]

BoP has always been an ensemble book. Oracle has been used well because Babs is a great character, but I could argue that Black Canary was more of the lead as far as action goes most of the time. I for one would like to see the focus go solely to Babs, instead of reading .... Oracle sends BC on a Mission, Oracle gives Nightwing info on a suspect, Oracle gives Batman an adress. That is what a supporting character does.

Yet she was the most important part of the book, that's why Barbara was the constant throughout.

Black Canary fulfilled the physical role that Barbara couldn't......but anyone could have replaced Canary and the BoP would still be able to move forward. Remove Oracle from the team and all of a sudden the entire thing grounds to a halt, lol.

In fact, looking at the relationship between Canary and Oracle as far as the team dynamic....which is more of a supporting character, the one that's interchangeable with any number of other characters (Black Canary, Huntress, Barda, Zatanna, etc.) or the character that holds it all together?

[Cayman]

That's the thing though, the Oracle title DID sell and it sold well for 125+ issues.

Birds of Prey, team book or no, revolved around our former Batgirl Barbara Gordon.

She got top billing in that book and it sold pretty well and lasted long past what I thought it was going to when I heard about its debut.

It actually revolved around the team of Barbara and Dinah.

It never sold that well and it really plummeted after the concept of the book was changed and Black Canary was ousted. The Oracle and her amazing friends concept sunk the book.

[Cayman]

While surfing and checking your email is very mobile these day I can't say the same for hacking governmental databases. And why not take an apprentice as Batgirl instead of Oracle, in fact why not have her in a mentor role for Batgirl similar to Bruce and Terry in Batman Beyond? Works perfectly IMO.

Also I still haven't seen a proper answer: what would add to Barbara Gordon's character if she's Batgirl again? Absolutely nothing.

Being Batgirl again does add to the character as it makes Barbara a more active participant in the DCU and restores one of DC's most loved characters to her proper place in the mythos. It shows a triumph over adversity and the opportunity to use the skills she has developed over the years of being sidelined in combination with her superhero skills to be a better Batgirl than ever before.

[DLH1970]

Yet she was the most important part of the book, that's why Barbara was the constant throughout.

Black Canary fulfilled the physical role that Barbara couldn't......but anyone could have replaced Canary and the BoP would still be able to move forward. Remove Oracle from the team and all of a sudden the entire thing grounds to a halt, lol.

In fact, looking at the relationship between Canary and Oracle as far as the team dynamic....which is more of a supporting character, the one that's interchangeable with any number of other characters (Black Canary, Huntress, Barda, Zatanna, etc.) or the character that holds it all together?

Just because the team around her changes doesn't mean she isn't in the supporting role. Prof. X formed the X-Men and he's not the main character.

Barbara Gordon is too good of a character to leave on the sidelines. No matter what outfit she wears, she should not be used only to sit behind a computer. She has more potential then that.

[Rev. Calibos]

It actually revolved around the team of Barbara and Dinah.

It never sold that well and it really plummeted after the concept of the book was changed and Black Canary was ousted. The Oracle and her amazing friends concept sunk the book.

How did they 'sink' a book that lasted 125+ issues and is only being canceled because the entire Bat line of books is getting an overhaul?

The title sold well, otherwise it wouldn't have lasted for over a decade.

[Cayman]

How did they 'sink' a book that lasted 125+ issues and is only being canceled because the entire Bat line of books is getting an overhaul?

The title sold well, otherwise it wouldn't have lasted for over a decade.

It was a lower-tier book even in its heyday and the numbers for the last year have been lousy.

[Rev. Calibos]

Just because the team around her changes doesn't mean she isn't in the supporting role. Prof. X formed the X-Men and he's not the main character.

Barbara Gordon is too good of a character to leave on the sidelines. No matter what outfit she wears, she should not be used only to sit behind a computer. She has more potential then that.

And it certainly shouldn't matter what the title of the book is then either.

I'm all for an Oracle series, even if we DO see her regain the use of her legs.

The problem with making it a 'Batgirl' series is that she isn't Batgirl and she hasn't been Batgirl for quite some time.

She's a much better Oracle and if she does get to walk again, if she does get to take a more active, physical role in the DCU I applaud that effort, that takes nothing away from her skills as Oracle and,quite honestly, will only complement the skills that she gained from her time in the chair.

The thing is though, she's Oracle now, not Batgirl. The role is already taken, taken with Barbara's blessing no less.....and to get back into that costume would be a gigantic step backwards.

As much as EVS seems to think that a Batgirl series showcasing Barbara in her old duds 'would be like printing money, derp a derp...' it wouldn't be the best move for the character considering how much she's grown out of the cowl.



What I'd prefer (and what would make more sense) is a Oracle series that shows us a Barbara Gordon growing accustomed to her legs once more and re-learning how to walk/jump/run/etc. again. The entire series could show us just how much of an asset Barbara is with her skills as Oracle AND her growing skills as a hand to hand combatant.....but to immediately throw her back into costume again this early would be a huge blunder.

[Rev. Calibos]

It was a lower-tier book even in its heyday and the numbers for the last year have been lousy.


Right, a lower tier book that lasted over a decade.


A new Batgirl series would last for, oh, probably a year after a strong initial showing after we get, what, 3, 4 covers showcasing Barbara in her old duds.

After the first 4 or 5 issues, after fans realize 'Holy crap.....this doesn't make any sense....how is she able to do that back flip over those criminals after not being able to walk for the better part of a decade?' the initial 'Oooh! The old Batgirl is back!' buzz will have worn off and the sales will taper off.

But yes, those first issue will have sold like hotcakes.

[Cayman]

Right, a lower tier book that lasted over a decade.


A new Batgirl series would last for, oh, probably a year after a strong initial showing after we get, what, 3, 4 covers showcasing Barbara in her old duds.

After the first 4 or 5 issues, after fans realize 'Holy crap.....this doesn't make any sense....how is she able to do that back flip over those criminals after not being able to walk for the better part of a decade?' the initial 'Oooh! The old Batgirl is back!' buzz will have worn off and the sales will taper off.

But yes, those first issue will have sold like hotcakes.

I think a Batgirl series would sell considerably more than Birds of Prey ever did.

[Rev. Calibos]

I think a Batgirl series would sell considerably more than Birds of Prey ever did.

Initially, sure......

A handful of Variant covers right off the bat, maybe a sketch one.....the book would sell very, very well......until....oh, I'd say around issues 7 or 8.

At that point a comic book fan base already flooded with Bat Titles will start to look at the hefty list and say 'Well, we HAVE to keep Detective and Batman....I want to keep Batman and Robin and Red Robin.....hmmm...what else.....Batgirl or Batwoman? Meh, drop them both...'


The point is they already had a good thing with BoP. A consistent selling book, a well written title that had roots in the Batman side of the house but existed all on it's lonesome as its own entity......the book did remarkably well during its decade plus of existence.

As 'Batgirl' Barbara will be enveloped back into the Batman portion of the DCU and will be just another face in the crowd.......Nightwing....Robin...Jason Todd....Batgirl.....Spoiler.....Batwoman.....Huntr ess......and now Batgirl V2.

She made a much greater impact as Oracle. Does that mean that she can't do it as Batgirl? No way to tell, but I'd be willing to bet that a 'Batgirl' series will probably do 20 issues and out.

[Cayman]

Initially, sure......

A handful of Variant covers right off the bat, maybe a sketch one.....the book would sell very, very well......until....oh, I'd say around issues 7 or 8.

At that point a comic book fan base already flooded with Bat Titles will start to look at the hefty list and say 'Well, we HAVE to keep Detective and Batman....I want to keep Batman and Robin and Red Robin.....hmmm...what else.....Batgirl or Batwoman? Meh, drop them both...'


The point is they already had a good thing with BoP. A consistent selling book, a well written title that had roots in the Batman side of the house but existed all on it's lonesome as its own entity......the book did remarkably well during its decade plus of existence.

As 'Batgirl' Barbara will be enveloped back into the Batman portion of the DCU and will be just another face in the crowd.......Nightwing....Robin...Jason Todd....Batgirl.....Spoiler.....Batwoman.....Huntr ess......and now Batgirl V2.

She made a much greater impact as Oracle. Does that mean that she can't do it as Batgirl? No way to tell, but I'd be willing to bet that a 'Batgirl' series will probably do 20 issues and out.

I don't agree. I think a Batgirl title would be a consistent seller.

[Spiffy]

To me the best option has ALWAYS been "Healing her is fine, but she should stay as Oracle."

Not that I think they HAVE to. Only that DC can't resist tinkering with things to create a status change. They compulsively feel they NEED to do that to make new story directions. I don't always like it, but I accept it.

Babs being handicapped was important, no doubt. It created a ton of good material and made an important statement. But at the same time, the REAL statement, the bigger one, was less about her handicap and more about how she was making a bigger difference with her brain than with her legs. And that message can only be reinforced if she's finally given an actual CHOICE and still chooses her brain.

There's your status change--your story arc. Brains over legs. As a voluntary choice this time, not as a rebuilding of her life.

[Cayman]

There's your status change--your story arc. Brains over legs. As a voluntary choice this time, not as a rebuilding of her life.

Why can't she use both?

[Rev. Calibos]

I don't agree. I think a Batgirl title would be a consistent seller.


And it will be.....for about a year or so.

Then, once that 'Holy shit, it's Batgirl! The Old one! And she can walk again! And fight crime!' wears off her title will join the other, what, 8 Batman related monthlies?

What is it about Barbara that would make her solo title a 'consistent seller'?

Honestly, unless you can name some outstanding silver age Batgirl stories.....the best Barbara Gordon stories are those post Killing Joke when she became Oracle.

Everything significant she's done in her career has been as Oracle.....in fact, I'd wager that her career didn't really begin until AFTER Killing Joke.

Again, there's no reason to call the title 'Batgirl' as she isn't Batgirl anymore. You can have an awesome, as you say consistent selling title without calling her Batgirl and instead calling it the more apt 'Oracle'.

[Spiffy]

Why can't she use both?

She can. But its a matter of where she puts the most energy and how she defines herself.

[Cayman]

And it will be.....for about a year or so.

Then, once that 'Holy shit, it's Batgirl! The Old one! And she can walk again! And fight crime!' wears off her title will join the other, what, 8 Batman related monthlies?

What is it about Barbara that would make her solo title a 'consistent seller'?

Honestly, unless you can name some outstanding silver age Batgirl stories.....the best Barbara Gordon stories are those post Killing Joke when she became Oracle.

Everything significant she's done in her career has been as Oracle.....in fact, I'd wager that her career didn't really begin until AFTER Killing Joke.

Again, there's no reason to call the title 'Batgirl' as she isn't Batgirl anymore. You can have an awesome, as you say consistent selling title without calling her Batgirl and instead calling it the more apt 'Oracle'.

Because Barbara is a terrific character. She is among the most intelligent of comic characters and she has a global perspective that is rare among superheroes, most of whom seem content to police their own cities. She can combine the kinetic action of street heroes like Nightwing with a knowledge of communications and technology that is rare in the superhero world. She is not limited to the streets of Gotham or Bludhaven. She can take the reader into areas of the DCU that are generally neglected. And she'll look great doing it because she has a classic, iconic look.

[Rev. Calibos]

Because Barbara is a terrific character. She is among the most intelligent of comic characters and she has a global perspective that is rare among superheroes, most of whom seem content to police their own cities. She can combine the kinetic action of street heroes like Nightwing with a knowledge of communications and technology that is rare in the superhero world. She is not limited to the streets of Gotham or Bludhaven. She can take the reader into areas of the DCU that are generally neglected. And she'll look great doing it because she has a classic, iconic look.


And she can do all of those things because of her time as Oracle.

Going back to pick up the Batgirl mantle would be a step backwards.......there's nothing stopping her from doing everything you described if she was Oracle.....so what does it matter that she's called 'Batgirl'? What does it matter that she's in the costume?

If the book is going to be about what you just described then why can't it be called 'Oracle' and have at it?

If the pitch you gave actually described what the monthly would be I would buy it in a heartbeat because Barbara Gordon, Oracle, is a character I care about and would love to see get the spotlight all on her own.

What I DON'T want to see is the past 20 years of continuity wiped away for the sake of a gimmick event. Cassie is doing a great job continuing the legacy of Batgirl....and Barbara gave her her blessing to do so.

It wouldn't make a lick of sense to put Barbara back into the costume and role of Batgirl again. She can carry a title all on her own WITHOUT that and it would be great.

So why in the world does it HAVE to be called Batgirl? Why does she HAVE to be in the suit?

The title you described sounds good enough on its own......she doesn't need the 'holy shit' factor of putting her back in the suit.

Putting her in the suit, calling her Batgirl.....they're short term forced 'event' gimmicks that add nothing of substance.

[Cayman]

And she can do all of those things because of her time as Oracle.

Going back to pick up the Batgirl mantle would be a step backwards.......there's nothing stopping her from doing everything you described if she was Oracle.....so what does it matter that she's called 'Batgirl'? What does it matter that she's in the costume?

If the book is going to be about what you just described then why can't it be called 'Oracle' and have at it?

If the pitch you gave actually described what the monthly would be I would buy it in a heartbeat because Barbara Gordon, Oracle, is a character I care about and would love to see get the spotlight all on her own.

What I DON'T want to see is the past 20 years of continuity wiped away for the sake of a gimmick event. Cassie is doing a great job continuing the legacy of Batgirl....and Barbara gave her her blessing to do so.

It wouldn't make a lick of sense to put Barbara back into the costume and role of Batgirl again. She can carry a title all on her own WITHOUT that and it would be great.

So why in the world does it HAVE to be called Batgirl? Why does she HAVE to be in the suit?

The title you described sounds good enough on its own......she doesn't need the 'holy shit' factor of putting her back in the suit.

Putting her in the suit, calling her Batgirl.....they're short term forced 'event' gimmicks that add nothing of substance.

It has to be called Batgirl because that's who she is. It's her suit. Barbara returning to her Batgirl identity is a correction, not an event. Barbara needs to conceal her civilian identity.

I'm not advocating a wiping of continuity. Barbara's time as Oracle is important in her development and part of what would make her one of the DCU's greatest and most effective heroines in the role of Batgirl. She can continue to play the role of Oracle in the DCU as needed. She doesn't lose any of her knowledge or intelligence just because she returns to her costume.

[Rev. Calibos]

It has to be called Batgirl because that's who she is. It's her suit. Barbara returning to her Batgirl identity is a correction, not an event. Barbara needs to conceal her civilian identity.

No, she WAS Batgirl, she IS Oracle.

One could just as easily argue that the end result of BFTC is the return of Dick Grayson to his role as Robin. It's who he is, it's his suit.



The REAL Batgirl is Cassie. If it's all about the suit we can just hand the old suit to her, she can swing around as Batgirl in that classic, sleek costume and wham, problem solved.


I'm not advocating a wiping of continuity. Barbara's time as Oracle is important in her development and part of what would make her one of the DCU's greatest and most effective heroines in the role of Batgirl. She can continue to play the role of Oracle in the DCU as needed. She doesn't lose any of her knowledge or intelligence just because she returns to her costume.

Yet there's no need for her to return to her role as Batgirl.......it's already taken.

[Cayman]

No, she WAS Batgirl, she IS Oracle.

One could just as easily argue that the end result of BFTC is the return of Dick Grayson to his role as Robin. It's who he is, it's his suit.



The REAL Batgirl is Cassie. If it's all about the suit we can just hand the old suit to her, she can swing around as Batgirl in that classic, sleek costume and wham, problem solved.




Yet there's no need for her to return to her role as Batgirl.......it's already taken.

Cassie is in no way worthy to wear the classic Batgirl uniform. The ugly Hot Topic Scarecrow thing she wears now better suits her character. Placing Cassie in the true Batgirl's suit is just a mockery.

Nightwing didn't have his career interrupted by the Joker so he has no reason to reclaim the Robin identity.

[Robert318]

Count me among the number who would like Barbara to remain in her wheelchair and continue in her role as Oracle. Barbara may be my absolute favorite female character in all of comics and this is because she is written as such an amazing person. Without the use of her legs, she demonstrates strength (physical and emotional), independence, intelligence, kindness, tactical abilities...I can't even list all the traits I admire her for. What I think I like best is that she is one of the few female characters who stands on her own and doesn't need a male character to help validate her. She may have her occasional romance with Dick Grayson, but she is the stronger one in that relationship as well. In her wheelchair, in her current role, she is far more compelling to me than most of the other bat-characters. I am going to purchase her mini-series coming up and Battle for the Cowl...not any of the supporting books. If DC announced an Oracle ongoing, I would pick that up. If they announced Barbara would star in a Batgirl book, I wouldn't bother. As Batgirl, she would just blend in with Batwoman, Cassandra Cain Batgirl, and Huntress. As Oracle she represents someone completely different who stands on her own.

[Cayman]

Count me among the number who would like Barbara to remain in her wheelchair and continue in her role as Oracle. Barbara may be my absolute favorite female character in all of comics and this is because she is written as such an amazing person. Without the use of her legs, she demonstrates strength (physical and emotional), independence, intelligence, kindness, tactical abilities...I can't even list all the traits I admire her for. What I think I like best is that she is one of the few female characters who stands on her own and doesn't need a male character to help validate her. She may have her occasional romance with Dick Grayson, but she is the stronger one in that relationship as well. In her wheelchair, in her current role, she is far more compelling to me than most of the other bat-characters. I am going to purchase her mini-series coming up and Battle for the Cowl...not any of the supporting books. If DC announced an Oracle ongoing, I would pick that up. If they announced Barbara would star in a Batgirl book, I wouldn't bother. As Batgirl, she would just blend in with Batwoman, Cassandra Cain Batgirl, and Huntress. As Oracle she represents someone completely different who stands on her own.

In other words, all women characters are identical unless they are in a wheelchair.

[Seraku]

she should definitely stay Oracle, don't care one way or the other if she walk while doing it.

[Robert318]

In other words, all women characters are identical unless they are in a wheelchair.

Not exactly what I'm saying, but this is certainly a character whom writers have been forced to write differently for. They can't do the knock-down, drag-em out fights they do for the other women. Barbara has not been written as a male character with breasts, as other female characters have turned into. She hasn't been made dependent on whatever male character happens to be playing the role of love interest. There is something about this character that writers have added more dimensions to her and made her stand out. For me, I think it is Barbara being in that wheelchair that gives the writers a different perspective.

[Captain Jim]

By and large, I think I prefer the status quo. But I have a hard time getting too worked up about it one way or another, because DC has obviously made their decision. Whatever it is, I'll give it a fair chance.

[Captain Jim]

BoP ends this week. It's time for Barbara to move on to the next stage of her life ...

Which she certainly will. We just don't know what it is yet. But I'm looking forward to reading the Oracle mini-series and finding out. :smile:

[Henker]

I'd rather see Barbara stay as Oracle. Cassandra is a far more effective Batgirl than Barbara ever was. Likewise, Babs is more effective in the Oracle role. Going back to being Batgirl feels like a downgrade to the character, not an upgrade.

[Rev. Calibos]

Cassie is in no way worthy to wear the classic Batgirl uniform. The ugly Hot Topic Scarecrow thing she wears now better suits her character. Placing Cassie in the true Batgirl's suit is just a mockery.


Who cares? The series wouldn't be about Cassie, the series would be about Barbara.

What would it matter what outfit she wears or what she's called?

If she regained the use of her legs, if she took on a more active role in the DCU would you still buy the book if she wasn't in the suit and the title wasn't called Batgirl?




Nightwing didn't have his career interrupted by the Joker so he has no reason to reclaim the Robin identity.

The Robin identity was most certainly interrupted by the Joker when he beat Jason to 'death' with a crowbar.

At that point Bruce needed a Robin more than ever. It would have made perfect sense for Dick to step down from his Nightwing identity and reclaim the title of Robin. It's his identity, it's 'his' suit.....it would make perfect sense for Grayson to step back into that role again.......wouldn't it?


Come to think of it, no it wouldn't make sense for him to do that.

Why is that?

[Robert318]

Who cares? The series wouldn't be about Cassie, the series would be about Barbara.

What would it matter what outfit she wears or what she's called?

If she regained the use of her legs, if she took on a more active role in the DCU would you still buy the book if she wasn't in the suit and the title wasn't called Batgirl?

The Robin identity was most certainly interrupted by the Joker when he beat Jason to 'death' with a crowbar.

At that point Bruce needed a Robin more than ever. It would have made perfect sense for Dick to step down from his Nightwing identity and reclaim the title of Robin. It's his identity, it's 'his' suit.....it would make perfect sense for Grayson to step back into that role again.......wouldn't it?

Come to think of it, no it wouldn't make sense for him to do that.

Why is that?

It wouldn't make sense for Dick to have become Robin again because he had already evolved past that point in his character and for him to return to it would have been a big step backwards. Just like Barbara has evolved past being Batgirl and it makes more sense for her to continue moving forward as Oracle.

[Deathstroke]

I think I would prefer her to remain how she is now.

But I think healing her would be fine as long as she is Oracle.

[Rev. Calibos]

It wouldn't make sense for Dick to have become Robin again because he had already evolved past that point in his character and for him to return to it would have been a big step backwards. Just like Barbara has evolved past being Batgirl and it makes more sense for her to continue moving forward as Oracle.

Exactly. When Jason Todd took over Robin the backlash was pretty severe because everyone still associated that role solely with Dick Grayson. Plus, Jason was a horrid Robin, lol.

When Tim took over enough time had past since Jason's death and Grayson taking up the role of Nightwing that the transition was a lot smoother......the fact that Tim was a better fit for Robin certainly helped too.

When considering Batgirl we have to be completely honest......what impact did Barbara have as the character?

I can't think of a single instance from her time in costume that really stands out save for her eulogy for Supergirl during the Crisis.

Is her time as Batgirl 'iconic' because of what she accomplished or the snazzy costume?

If the answer is only 'the costume' then the best route would be to take that 'iconic' part of Batgirl and apply it to the current Batgirl, Cassandra Cain.

She's done a lot more during her time in costume, she's developed into a fantastic character that better compliments the role of Batgirl then Barbara ever did. If we take the already great current Batgirl and place her in the 'iconic' costume everybody should be happy.

That would leave Barbara with the opportunity to move forward as Oracle or as something else entirely, but that's the most important part: Moving forward.

To resume the role of Batgirl would be a gigantic step backwards at this point. We already have a great Batgirl in Cassandra Cain and we've had her for about a decade now.

[carabas]

I think part of this is just nostalgia, but a big part is also pure sexism.

How dare she be a succesfull female character and not dance around in skintight spandex, striking provocative poses just like every other female superhero in comics.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I think part of this is just nostalgia, but a big part is also pure sexism.

How dare she be a succesfull female character and not dance around in skintight spandex, striking provocative poses just like every other female superhero in comics.

I kinda think it's the reverse. The writers are little more than fanboys who want to play with the toys they grew up with. But in doing so, either don't know or don't care that they're taking a strong female character backwards as a character.

[joel221]

I was torn between leaving Barbara in the chair and allowing her to walk again. One one hand, it's pretty cool that DC has such a prominent heroine and key figure in the Batverse in a minority role (physically handicapped) that is not very well represented in comics. (Fortunately, the other example everyone has heard about is Prof. X, an even more important figure.) For those who have no option of leaving their chairs and who have achieved a great deal despite that, I'm loathe to vote against a character that mirrors and inspires such achievement.

On the other hand, I recognize that Barbara is a comic character and cannot remain in one position for ever. For better or worse, characters that persist continue to evolve. I think there are still many good Oracle stories that can be told while she is in a chair, but there are also many new possibilities if she is able to walk and fight crime after time and experience have added a lot to her maturity and skills. I really like Barbara either way, and I voted for her healing but remaining Oracle.

I also really like Cassandra Cain. I purchased every issue of her solo series and have enjoyed reading and sharing them with friends. Cassandra's commitment to the Bat mantle, her many struggles (with naivete, an abusive past, an often neglectful new father (in Bruce), and an inability to communicate nuanced understanding), her heroic heart, and her innocence made her a very compelling character for me. I love redemption stories, and Cassandra's series had so many redemptive qualities. One even occasionally saw her pure heart impress and convict Bruce.

Then OYL happened. I'm not sure if I'll ever see the Cass I knew in comics again, but part of me hopes I will. Due to that possibility, I don't want her to be replaced as Batgirl by someone else. The concept of Cass was so good, and the concept of Oracle is so good, I don't want to lose either. I just want to see good writers continue to enliven and spin tales using those two concepts.

[Henker]

If the answer is only 'the costume' then the best route would be to take that 'iconic' part of Batgirl and apply it to the current Batgirl, Cassandra Cain.

She's done a lot more during her time in costume, she's developed into a fantastic character that better compliments the role of Batgirl then Barbara ever did. If we take the already great current Batgirl and place her in the 'iconic' costume everybody should be happy.
Cassandra has worn Barbara's costume before. I didn't really fit her like the current costume does.

[Rev. Calibos]

Cassandra has worn Barbara's costume before. I didn't really fit her like the current costume does.

This is true.....but if it's all about the iconic costume then putting it on Cass briefly before giving her an updated amalgamation between her old suit and the classic Batgirl outfit should make everyone happy.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

I think that either giving Cassandra an open face mask like Barbara's, or just losing the stupid stitching (some artists do), that Cassie's sleek costume with the yellow silhouette is better than most of Barbara's renditions as Batgirl, particularly the grey body suit costume. The sleeker version with the same black cowl and body suit, in the style of Alex Ross or Terry Dodson, does look a lot better. Barbara's television costume had purple gloves and boots, matching her cowl and body suit, not unlike Cassie's costume with the black gloves, boots, suit and cowl.

Either way, the stitching makes her look either fetishist or make-shift. She is a legitimate member of the Bat Family and has been for years, Robin has gone through several costume changes, they tweaked Barbara;s costume, and Nightwing had several, Cassie deserves a slight tweak/redesign to refine her.

[frostedone]

So 76% of fans do not want Barbara to become Batgirl again.

Sounds good to me.

Barbara was Batgirl, NOW she is Oracle.

She gave Cassandra the blessing to be Batgirl and she does a great job.

[Cayman]

So 76% of fans do not want Barbara to become Batgirl again.

Sounds good to me.

Barbara was Batgirl, NOW she is Oracle.

She gave Cassandra the blessing to be Batgirl and she does a great job.

CBR does not contain the entirety of fandom.

[Captain Jim]

So 76% of fans do not want Barbara to become Batgirl again.

Based on what? The results of this poll? All this proves is that 76% of the people who voted in this poll don't want her to become Batgirl again. It says nothing about "fans" in general.

And even if it did, DC doesn't care two whits about the result of your poll.

[Rev. Calibos]

CBR does not contain the entirety of fandom.

No, it doesn't.....but what it DOES do is give us a litmus for comicdom as a whole.

Consider who's voting in the poll....comic fans. Comic fans who saw the topic 'Barbara Gordon Poll ', had their interest piqued and then decided to throw their two cents in.

It's not scientific by any means but what we have here is a perfectly random assortment of comic book fans who decided to vote and for this small, select group of fans they'd rather not see Barbara resume the role of Batgirl.

It doesn't matter to DC at all what we want, they're going to put out whatever books they think will sell. If they think a Batgirl series with Barbara Gordon under the cowl they're going to do it regardless, as they should.

[DLH1970]

Another thing this poll indicates is that a lot of fans would like to see Babs walk again. Whether she returns as Batgirl or stays as Oracle. I would also bet that a lot a people that voted for her to stay as Oracle would check out a comic that featured her as Batgirl. If it's well written, the fans will stick around.

[Ben Reilly#6]

I still don't see what's so hard about giving her the ability to walk again and keeping her as Oracle, albeit in a slightly more expanded role. I mean, it should be obvious. Then again, it took DC 50 years to add pants to the Robin costume, and another ten to give it a better color scheme, so...

[The Cool Thatguy]

I still don't see what's so hard about giving her the ability to walk again and keeping her as Oracle, albeit in a slightly more expanded role. I mean, it should be obvious. Then again, it took DC 50 years to add pants to the Robin costume, and another ten to give it a better color scheme, so...

DC currently suffers from a lack of imagination. They were gonna kill Nightwing because he'd grown past his role as Robin but couldn't be Batman. The idea that Dick would be an equal to Bats never occured to them.

[Karl O'Neill]

They better not change her. she should remain in the wheel chair.

[d newton]

DC currently suffers from a lack of imagination. They were gonna kill Nightwing because he'd grown past his role as Robin but couldn't be Batman.
From the Infinite Crisis hardcover:
"We originally talked about killng Nightwing".
"Dan focused on offing Nightwing, but we all felt it was just the wrong character".
"Nightwing would have been a mistake".

[frostedone]

Based on what? The results of this poll? All this proves is that 76% of the people who voted in this poll don't want her to become Batgirl again. It says nothing about "fans" in general.

And even if it did, DC doesn't care two whits about the result of your poll.

I think I worded that wrong, sorry about that.

What I meant was that 76% of people on CBR want to keep her as Oracle, not all comic book fans. I got carried away I guess.

All that said, I know that DC doesn't care about internet polls, but what can people do to reach out to them? Granted they have a forum on their site, but I doubt they look at it much.

In short how can fans get DC to listen to their suggestions without us nagging them or asking them at cons?

[The Cool Thatguy]

Honestly, I'd like to know where this demand for a Babs Batgirl is coming from. We've had Oracle for two decades now, with her own series and I've barely seen a peep. Even after she showed up in the cartoons.

[FemGeek]

Honestly, I'd like to know where this demand for a Babs Batgirl is coming from. We've had Oracle for two decades now, with her own series and I've barely seen a peep. Even after she showed up in the cartoons.

I've been wondering that myself. Yeah Babs as Batgirl has always had her die-hard fan base, all characters have super-fans. But I have no idea how this Babs crusade came about these last couple of months. Theres been no indication of a return of Old Batgirl anywhere that I can find, and I haven't seen a shred of evidence to support a Babs-Batgirl return.

[carabas]

But I have no idea how this Babs crusade came about these last couple of months. Theres been no indication of a return of Old Batgirl anywhere that I can find.DC canceled Birds Of Prey, announced an Oracle: The Cure mini, and his now announced a Batgirl ongoing, without telling anyone which Batgirl.

[Spiffy]

Okay, lets examine this a different way. A theoretical. IF DC ignores the upset internet rumblings about making Babs back into Batgirl... (and lets treat that as a separate, more advanced scenario than simply making her walk again) how many folks here would simply refuse to buy it?

To be honest... I personally wouldn't go that far. Versus, lets say, another shot at Cassandra Cain Batgirl but written again by Adam Beechen, which I might buy only if I planned to use it as toilet paper. I'd be displeased by a Babs Batgirl at this point, but I wouldn't rank my upset at fanatical levels.

I wonder if that's how DC perceives the risk. That a lot of people might be upset, but nobody will be hopping mad. In return, they'd scoop up a lot of casual fans who may not have read the Batgirl character in years. A tricky proposition though, since the Babs version of Batgirl never actually had her own book (she had miniseries but never an ongoing).

[DLH1970]

Okay, lets examine this a different way. A theoretical. IF DC ignores the upset internet rumblings about making Babs back into Batgirl... (and lets treat that as a separate, more advanced scenario than simply making her walk again) how many folks here would simply refuse to buy it?

To be honest... I personally wouldn't go that far. Versus, lets say, another shot at Cassandra Cain Batgirl but written again by Adam Beechen, which I might buy only if I planned to use it as toilet paper. I'd be displeased by a Babs Batgirl at this point, but I wouldn't rank my upset at fanatical levels.

I wonder if that's how DC perceives the risk. That a lot of people might be upset, but nobody will be hopping mad. In return, they'd scoop up a lot of casual fans who may not have read the Batgirl character in years. A tricky proposition though, since the Babs version of Batgirl never actually had her own book (she had miniseries but never an ongoing).

This is kind of my point. Fans of Babs as Oracle will still check out a seies based on her as Batgirl (if it's written well). They may prefer her as Oracle, but people would still be interested. That's all that DC really cares about.

As far as "why for this sudden call to return her to Batgirl", I think it's been more of a call to have her walk again. DC probably figures that as long as she's walking she might as well be in her most iconic persona.

[theNighteye]

as a huge batgirl (barbara gordon) fan this is so controversial for me. Part of me wants her to go back in the field and part of me wants her to stay as oracle. that doesn't mean she has to stay in the wheel chair. what she should do is get back together with nightwing. they promised each other way back in the 2nd nightwing annual. promises should be kept.

[Captain Jim]

DC canceled Birds Of Prey, announced an Oracle: The Cure mini, and his now announced a Batgirl ongoing, without telling anyone which Batgirl.

Add to that the fact that they said the sales on the Cassandra mini were disappointing and probably did not warrent a follow-up series.

Plus, a year or so ago, Didio informally polled fans at some of the conventions on who came to mind when he yelled out various names. When he yelled "Batgirl", the majority of the people yelled back Barbara Gordon.

Plus we know that Didio is on a crusade to bring back what he considers the "iconic" (read: silver age) verision of their characters. Like Hal Jordan and Barry Allen.

Plus, in recent issues of BOP, Barbara has been lamenting how much the "chair" has restricted her (especially after her fight with the Joker).

Plus, in the "omens" page of the "Origins and Omens" back-up feature in the final issue of Nightwing, we see Barbara in her Batgirl costume.

Naw, on second thought, you're right, FemGeek. There's no evidence to support this notion at all. :rolleyes:

[Captain Jim]

I think I worded that wrong, sorry about that.

What I meant was that 76% of people on CBR want to keep her as Oracle, not all comic book fans. I got carried away I guess.

Not trying to pick on you, honest, but you still have it wrong. As I said above, it simply indicates that 76% of the people who voted in the poll have that preference. Not nearly all the people on CBR participated.

[Captain Jim]

No, it doesn't.....but what it DOES do is give us a litmus for comicdom as a whole.

Consider who's voting in the poll....comic fans. Comic fans who saw the topic 'Barbara Gordon Poll ', had their interest piqued and then decided to throw their two cents in.

It's not scientific by any means but what we have here is a perfectly random assortment of comic book fans who decided to vote and for this small, select group of fans they'd rather not see Barbara resume the role of Batgirl.

It doesn't matter to DC at all what we want, they're going to put out whatever books they think will sell. If they think a Batgirl series with Barbara Gordon under the cowl they're going to do it regardless, as they should.

Hardly "perfectly random." We're talking about registered users who visited this forum on CBR and chose to vote. And it's a pretty well known fact that comic fans who post on the internet do not represent the majority of people who buy comic books (and are, in fact, a small, decidedly opinionated percentage of the entire number).

[Spiffy]

Hardly "perfectly random." We're talking about registered users who visited this forum on CBR and chose to vote. And it's a pretty well known fact that comic fans who post on the internet do not represent the majority of people who buy comic books (and are, in fact, a small, decidedly opinionated percentage of the entire number).
To be fair Jim I DO think that there's an pretty complex relationship between opinion on boards like this and the "real world".

I agree that opinions here don't have much basis to the greater reality of opinions outside of fandom. They may match, they may not.

What I DO think is true though is that opinions on places like this tend to drive industry trade talk--stuff that appears in articles, which is read by people who put in book orders, etc. It's kind of like, the forums help drive the media, and then the media drives the people who DO matter.

So it matters, I think, it's just far from conclusive. And a lot of other things can change in other links of the chain. For example, the media can decide to be contrary and take a stand against what they read on the forums, for example. Although its worth noting that even then, they are taking their cues, their agenda, from the Net Chatter. They are just flip flopping on it. The forums are still creating the debate.

[Trey]

I voted for Barbara to don the cape once more.

Now, I have no attachment to other Batgirls or to Oracle. My exposure to her has been the Year One story, and the 60's TV show. Along with The Killing Joke.

The one factor that has always endeared me to her character is that she is the daughter of Commissioner Gordon. This connection adds another element to her. The cop's daughter. Who is also a vigilante, and can use information to fight crime.

Also, she is much more marketable to a general audience than Cain or Oracle. Batgirl: The Movie would clean up at the box office. That may also factor into bringing back the one, true Batgirl.

About how old is Oracle portrayed to be in BOP?

[FemGeek]

DC canceled Birds Of Prey, announced an Oracle: The Cure mini, and his now announced a Batgirl ongoing, without telling anyone which Batgirl.

This happened recentely, long after the debates had started. Plus, all of that seems to me that they're gonna ditch Barbara completley. BoP are moving books. Theres not really any need to say which Batgirl it is as there is one Batgirl. Plus she'll be appearing with her own team in Streets of Gotham, and also the collected mini is on sale first week of June, a preety good time for a catchup before her new series.

Add to that the fact that they said the sales on the Cassandra mini were disappointing and probably did not warrent a follow-up series.

Plus, a year or so ago, Didio informally polled fans at some of the conventions on who came to mind when he yelled out various names. When he yelled "Batgirl", the majority of the people yelled back Barbara Gordon.

Plus we know that Didio is on a crusade to bring back what he considers the "iconic" (read: silver age) verision of their characters. Like Hal Jordan and Barry Allen.

Plus, in recent issues of BOP, Barbara has been lamenting how much the "chair" has restricted her (especially after her fight with the Joker).

Plus, in the "omens" page of the "Origins and Omens" back-up feature in the final issue of Nightwing, we see Barbara in her Batgirl costume.

Naw, on second thought, you're right, FemGeek. There's no evidence to support this notion at all. :rolleyes:

Perhaps DiDio listenened to fans properly and had giving Cass her actual 2nd title, the mini didn't sell all that badly for something so despised.
I recall DiDio mentioning Babs would never walk while he was in charge. He just got rid of Batman, thats not very silver-age -ove of him, superman status quo is changing completely, I doubt we''ll be seeing Dick prancing around in silver-age short shorts anytime soon. Didio has brought back a couple silver-age things, but mostly he's moving forward.
Those recent issues of BoP are leading to Babs self-pitying seclusion in her mini, which could end in her death, retirerment, robotisism, or walking.
The panel in the Nightwing backup is in red, most often a bad thing. It looked kind of like a photograph too, since it seemed to have fingerprints (or possibly raindrops) on it.
So yeah, no real evidence. No real reson to kill Cass off, no reason Babs should be Batgirl again.

[Rev. Calibos]

Hardly "perfectly random." We're talking about registered users who visited this forum on CBR and chose to vote And it's a pretty well known fact that comic fans who post on the internet do not represent the majority of people who buy comic books (and are, in fact, a small, decidedly opinionated percentage of the entire number).

This is true, but I consider CBR to be a forum with a wide variety of fans, not just hard core folks.

But let's assume that 99% of folks here are the hard core type, the folks that make up that small, small percentage of comic fandom as a whole.....what do we think of when we think of 'the rest of comicdom as a whole'?

The folks who buy casually, who pick up titles now and then, might not have 20 longboxes in the closet but they make do, lol.

Who do they consider to be Batgirl? Barbara Gordon who has been out of action and in a wheel chair for 20 years or Cassandra Cain, a vital character in the Bat Family who carried her own title to nearly a hundred issues and who is currently playing a large role in the upcoming BFTC?

If you asked a casual fan who they consider to be Batgirl, what would the response be?

Secondly,as a casual fan, what interest would they have in picking up a title with yet ANOTHER female member of the Batman family? We already have Cassandra who, again, had a successful book, a successful mini and playing a large role in BFTC, we have Batwoman who is newer but has made quite an impact due to her sexual orientation and will star in the revamped Detective.....what need is there for a third Bat-chick?

[celticguy]

I

About how old is Oracle portrayed to be in BOP?

based on the last nightwing at least older than 22. i would say 26 or 27.

[Libaax]

For me there are different reasons she should stay being Oracle and not be healed.

She is much more important as Oracle who helps alot of heroes as only she can. Also the tragic past show the risk of the job.

You cant belittle that by healing and making her another vigilante after so many years.

I have liked Babs for so long cause she has gone from a street level hero to doing what she can as Oracle.

[Libaax]

This is true, but I consider CBR to be a forum with a wide variety of fans, not just hard core folks.

But let's assume that 99% of folks here are the hard core type, the folks that make up that small, small percentage of comic fandom as a whole.....what do we think of when we think of 'the rest of comicdom as a whole'?

The folks who buy casually, who pick up titles now and then, might not have 20 longboxes in the closet but they make do, lol.

Who do they consider to be Batgirl? Barbara Gordon who has been out of action and in a wheel chair for 20 years or Cassandra Cain, a vital character in the Bat Family who carried her own title to nearly a hundred issues and who is currently playing a large role in the upcoming BFTC?

If you asked a casual fan who they consider to be Batgirl, what would the response be?

Secondly,as a casual fan, what interest would they have in picking up a title with yet ANOTHER female member of the Batman family? We already have Cassandra who, again, had a successful book, a successful mini and playing a large role in BFTC, we have Batwoman who is newer but has made quite an impact due to her sexual orientation and will star in the revamped Detective.....what need is there for a third Bat-chick?


I have read Batman and superhero comics in general only since 2005 and despite i like the cold,different Cassandra, Barbara will always be The Batgirl.

Not because i have backread few stories in year one vien where she was Batgirl. Because of her place in Bat family history.

Just like how Dick are Robin to many fans despite him being Nightwing for so long.

I

[carabas]

.....Naw, on second thought, you're right, FemGeek. There's no evidence to support this notion at all. :rolleyes:I think they're on a fishing expedition with this. Dangle nice bait in front of the Batgirl nostalgics and see how much of an opposition we get from the progressives, and then see if we think Babs-as-Batgirl is worthwhile, or stick with Oracle for now and try again in a few years.

This happened recentely, long after the debates had started. These debates have been ongoing for as long as there has been an internet.

[Spiffy]

So BOP #127's Origins and Omens section pretty much gives this one away. DON'T buy that issue if you want to be surprised.

[F1uke]

Heres a link to the Last Bird's of Prey issue spoilers/discussion:

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=257831

[Rev. Calibos]

I have read Batman and superhero comics in general only since 2005 and despite i like the cold,different Cassandra, Barbara will always be The Batgirl.

Not because i have backread few stories in year one vien where she was Batgirl. Because of her place in Bat family history.

Just like how Dick are Robin to many fans despite him being Nightwing for so long.

I

And for me Hal Jordan will always be the 'real' Green Lantern despite all of the great stuff that Kyle has done......and I suspect there are much older fans who, after Hal's debut, still considered Alan Scott to be the 'real' Green Lantern.

When it comes to Nightwing and Barbara however, they've surpassed their original roles significantly.

The DC universe is a much better place because of Grayson's progression from Robin to Nightwing. The DC universe is a much better place because of Barbara's progression from Batgirl to Oracle.

We can still honor and enjoy their origins, the foundations of these great characters, but to see them regress back into what they were before would be a mistake. Dick Grayson is Nightwing, Barbara Gordon is Oracle......to put her back into a suit and join an already flooded pool of vigilantes in Gotham (Batgirl, Batwoman, Huntress, Robin, Nightwing, etc. ) would be nonsensical. Even if she regains the use of her legs she'd be a better Oracle.

[Libaax]

And for me Hal Jordan will always be the 'real' Green Lantern despite all of the great stuff that Kyle has done......and I suspect there are much older fans who, after Hal's debut, still considered Alan Scott to be the 'real' Green Lantern.

When it comes to Nightwing and Barbara however, they've surpassed their original roles significantly.

The DC universe is a much better place because of Grayson's progression from Robin to Nightwing. The DC universe is a much better place because of Barbara's progression from Batgirl to Oracle.

We can still honor and enjoy their origins, the foundations of these great characters, but to see them regress back into what they were before would be a mistake. Dick Grayson is Nightwing, Barbara Gordon is Oracle......to put her back into a suit and join an already flooded pool of vigilantes in Gotham (Batgirl, Batwoman, Huntress, Robin, Nightwing, etc. ) would be nonsensical. Even if she regains the use of her legs she'd be a better Oracle.'


I couldnt agree more. I like both Dick and Babs origins and history as Robin,Batgirl but they have grown alot into NW,Oracle.

Im actually scared of the idea of healing Barbara and destroying Oracle persona.

I enjoy everytime i see her as Oracle, one reason i have read BOP.

Batgirl is Cassandra now and i hope she gets her chance with someone alot better than Beechen. No wonder her recent mini failed sales wise.