Who is the hardest/toughest Marvel Character?

[ukbondraider]

Although I have only read a few titles, my initial thought was that Cap America was one of the hardest characters.

However, I have since read Cable and Deadpool and whilst this title probably isnt a good reflection of Cable's true abilities I now think Cable must be one of the hardest characters.

Who else?

[Leebenhouse]

The Living Diamond. He's made of the hardest substance known to man. No Viagra needed.

As for the toughest, it's a cliche but the Punisher. He's just a man, but he's pretty much the toughest guy in the Marvel Universe, just give him the right weapons, and he could and would kill anybody(thats a bad guy). Or manage to jack up anybody in his way.

[B. Kuwanger]

Right on, Leebenhouse.

Cable is pretty high up there, but he has a dad and a daughter and stuff. Punisher is hardness in every way.

ukbondraider, if you like C&D, I'd actually recommend the comics before that, Cable vol. 1 issues #97-107.

[whiteshark]

1-Hulk.

2-Punisher.

3-Ghost Rider.

4-Moon Knight.

5-Spider-Man.

[FistofIron]

To me its a tie between Punisher and Moon Knight.

[2-4-5_Trioxin]

Im gonna say the punisher since he has no powers, no team mates, no backup and nothing but himself. He is just a regular guy with a shitload of guns.

[ExodusCloak]

Emma Frost it's sort of her thing personality wise and power wise.

[Brannon]

Man, I thought this was going to be about "durability" and I was all ready to make my brilliantly laid out case for the Silver Surfer and Thanos...ah, well.

[marvell2100]

This person has survived numerous injuries and maladies. This person has taken on super villains without the benefit of super powers or any kind of training. This character has seen their share of loss and grief. This person was thought dead on numerous occasions only to come back stronger than ever. Who am I talking about? Who is the hardest, toughest character in the MU? None other than...Aunt May!

[Leebenhouse]

Punisher is so hard, he could do porn.

Actually, Wolverine would be better, he's short, hairy and has a bad haircut.

(God, I hate it when people refer to tough people as "hard")

[ukbondraider]

1-Hulk.

2-Punisher.

3-Ghost Rider.

4-Moon Knight.

5-Spider-Man.

Spiderman??

I dont know who ghost rider is nor do I know who moon knight is but Spiderman isnt even close I would have thought. Wolverine would be higher in the list than spiderman and spiderman is also easily weaker than Cap America as shown in civil war.

As for Punisher, I still have to commence my reading of this character but what I do remember was how Cap America took him out with one punch in Civil War after punisher shot some villain who came to side with Cap America. I remember laughing at this the first time I read it. It made Punisher look like a complete wimp.

Anyway the reason for this post is that I am looking to collect other characters and am thinking about Cable amongst others. I quite like the look of moon knight but will wait to see if the release an oversized HC version of his few trades that are currently out. As for Ghost rider, having seen the movie with Nicholas Cage, I think I will pass.

Simply put one of my criteria is that I like reading about badass characters so would appreciate any other suggestions.

[Leebenhouse]

If you want to see badass punisher, buy the Ennis Punisher omnibus. Welcome Back Frank really put Punisher on the map as a badass.

[ukbondraider]

If you want to see badass punisher, buy the Ennis Punisher omnibus. Welcome Back Frank really put Punisher on the map as a badass.


Yep I have ordered the Omnibus book and the Punisher Max Oversized Hardcovers Vol 1-4 (and preordered vol 5).

Just waiting for them all to arrive in the post.

:smile:

[Brannon]

Not to take anything away from Ennis' Punisher, but wasn't the Punisher a bad ass LONG before Ennis even started writing comics? He seemed pretty bad-ass when Frank Miller used him in Daredevil and in that original Mike Zeck limited series. I know, I'm going old school here...

[marvell2100]

Not to take anything away from Ennis' Punisher, but wasn't the Punisher a bad ass LONG before Ennis even started writing comics? He seemed pretty bad-ass when Frank Miller used him in Daredevil and in that original Mike Zeck limited series. I know, I'm going old school here...

Yup, He was bad ass long before then. I remember Captain America vol.1 #141 where the Punisher stops Cap's shield with his gun. That was a badass moment.

[Sugarbombz]

Monet St. Croix and Jubilee.

[Leebenhouse]

Monet St. Croix and Jubilee.
How can they get hard? They're women, they don't have the equipment!!

[striderhirryu2]

Marc, I ****ing carved someone's face off, Spector Moon Knight

[MTL76]

Not to take anything away from Ennis' Punisher, but wasn't the Punisher a bad ass LONG before Ennis even started writing comics? He seemed pretty bad-ass when Frank Miller used him in Daredevil and in that original Mike Zeck limited series. I know, I'm going old school here...

True, but Ennis took him to a whole new level.

[B. Kuwanger]

The Punisher had some great old school moments. His first meetings with Spider-Man, Cap, Wolverine, and Daredevil were all awesome. He's tougher as a character when Ennis writes him, but I think with the exception of stories like Millar's Civil War, he seems like a bigger badass all around in the MU.




(God, I hate it when people refer to tough people as "hard")

Hey, you made the first two sexual jokes here. I don't personally think it's that bad, but I think "hard" is better used when describing people in prison.

......

*waits for the third sex joke*

[marshal99]

Marc, I ****ing carved someone's face off, Spector Moon Knight

Moon Knight is so hard , he nearly got killed by Zaran the weapon master who often got punked by Shang Chi and who , a few months later after nearly killing Moon Knight , was seen getting his ass kicked hard by Wolverine and was often used as a lackey of batroc. :wink:

[Leebenhouse]

Hey, you made the first two sexual jokes here. I don't personally think it's that bad, but I think "hard" is better used when describing people in prison.

......

*waits for the third sex joke*

Don't you mean, in prison showers?

Where does being "hard" come from anyways?

And Moon Knight needs Marlene around to be hard. Frenchie on the other hand...:rolleyes:

[Kasper Cole]

Nick Fury is the measuring stick of being "Hard" in the Marvel universe.

[Prodigy55]

This is the correct answer. Emma would break Punisher's mind if he even thought about her the wrong way.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/40/549575-emma_super.jpg

[Kasper Cole]

Emma would break Punisher's mind if he even thought about her the wrong way

Which is why Nick fury is the correct answer..If Emma tried messing with his mind she'd just find a bunch of psychic blocks and booby traps. Nick fury was giving terrorists nightmares before most other characters were born.

[Deus ex Chris]

Nick Fury, Wolverine, and...Storm!

[ExodusCloak]

This is the correct answer. Emma would break Punisher's mind if he even thought about her the wrong way.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/40/549575-emma_super.jpg

This is correct, as for Nick Fury and his psi-blockers given enough time she could get past it she's gotten past worse and two she could just go for the diamond kick to the nuts and then mock him for being played by David Hasselhoff.

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/817/24139934hc8.jpg

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6785/236844981a8858193918lra8.jpg
http://file044a.bebo.com/15/large/2008/09/11/14/236844981a8858182594l.jpg

[Ex_]

hard as hell:

Wolverine, Frank Castle, Nick Fury, Cable, Marc Spector, Namor. All warriors. I guess I'd say Bucky too.

[MuhollandDriver]

Hard characters.....ma

Moon Knight, Punisher, Emma Frost...those are standard and correct answers.

i am glad someone mentioned Storm. That woman has the potential to be ruthless, despite her gentle nature.

Electra is another good example. Pretty hardass if You ask me.

[Kasper Cole]

Are people just naming Emma because she can turn to diamond? Is it because of her involvement in the dark illuminati? because I just don't see her being as hard as Nick, Frank, or Elektra.

[ExodusCloak]

Are people just naming Emma because she can turn to diamond? Is it because of her involvement in the dark illuminati? because I just don't see her being as hard as Nick, Frank, or Elektra.

Nope. It's down to her personality, Emma Frost is and has always been a ruthless, ice cold uber *$%&*. Even before she became an X-Men.

[Ex_]

Hard characters.....ma

Moon Knight, Punisher, Emma Frost...those are standard and correct answers.

i am glad someone mentioned Storm. That woman has the potential to be ruthless, despite her gentle nature.

Electra is another good example. Pretty hardass if You ask me.

Elektra is a good one. How is nobody agreeing with me for Namor? That dude won't quit. He'll gut you.

[Kasper Cole]

Nope. It's down to her personality, Emma Frost is and has always been a ruthless, ice cold uber *$%&*. Even before she became an X-Men.

I agree but she's not nearly as ruthless as Fury, Castle, or Elecktra. Emma still at times can't deal with guilt and probably has many sleepless night because of it, while the other three could kill a few thousand people and sleep like a baby that same night.

[marvell2100]

This is the correct answer. Emma would break Punisher's mind if he even thought about her the wrong way.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/40/549575-emma_super.jpg

I don't think Emma would want to go into Frank's mind. She'd never make it out alive. Frank is the most driven psychopath out there and I don't think Emma can handle all that hate.

[ExodusCloak]

I agree but she's not nearly as ruthless as Fury, Castle, or Elecktra. Emma still at times can't deal with guilt and probably has many sleepless night because of it, while the other three could kill a few thousand people and sleep like a baby that same night.

I'd probably say she's more so then two of the three you mentioned since two of those deal on a street level. As White Queen the circles she ran in and the people she dealt with were far shadier then any common street thug.
Emma Frost not only toyed with peoples lives and ruined them but she killed people as well and to my knowledge has not regreted any of it because in her mind they all deserved it. In fact not once has Emma felt guilty about killing someone. The only thing Emma regrets is not being able to save her students and that's something that came out in the 90's. She was on the brink of turning Storm into a vegetable. Emma killed her Hellfire Goons left right and center for failing her. She killed a horse and Firestars friend in order to turn her into a weapon against Selene. Selene and herself placed a bet on one of her goons and his head exploded and she didn't even wince. She killed her sister and we had an entire issue on her making Batman her lap dog and how she only wishes she'd have killed her sooner. Emma's only regrets are her students everything she's done in her past have been for her own self interests and she doesn't regret any of that.
If you were to go back and read her first appearances, Emma was one of the few X-Villians who you could actually say was written as pure evil especially her motivation. It's one of the reasons why her redemption took like 15 years real time. There was not a shred of nobleness in her character until much later in her comic book career(Classic X-Men) where CC and Louise tried to make her more human. Nowdays certain aspects of her past are forgotten and she's been watered down a bit but she can still give Wolverine a run for his money in the callousness department. You don't need to chop people up to be considered hardcore or psychotic.

As for ruthlessness...she's far more sadistic then Fury and Elektra. And even Wolverine since she has kind of usurped his spot as controversial member of the X-Men.

I don't think Emma would want to go into Frank's mind. She'd never make it out alive. Frank is the most driven psychopath out there and I don't think Emma can handle all that hate.

Emma's delved into 8 billion tortured minds before it would be very easy for her barring plot induced stupidity.

[B. Kuwanger]

Frank Castle has killed a higher number of people than Emma has known. Even in her Hellfire Club days, which honestly Frank has comes into contact and slew the likes of dozens of times over the years. I like Emma but without her powers, she would be some lame rich girl. With feelings.

Elektra is a good one. How is nobody agreeing with me for Namor? That dude won't quit. He'll gut you.
I love Namor, but I dunno. He takes a lot of crap. Everyone is always turning on him, because he's there to be turned on.

Moon Knight is so hard , he nearly got killed by Zaran the weapon master who often got punked by Shang Chi and who , a few months later after nearly killing Moon Knight , was seen getting his ass kicked hard by Wolverine and was often used as a lackey of batroc.
If you wanna factor power into things, tough guy Wolverine has beaten both Zaran and Shang Chi, but got tooled by Wonder Man and Sentry, the least toughest Avengers ever.

[ExodusCloak]

Frank Castle has killed a higher number of people than Emma has known. Even in her Hellfire Club days, which honestly Frank has comes into contact and slew the likes of dozens of times over the years. I like Emma but without her powers, she would be some lame rich girl. With feelings.


Of course Frank has killed more people, but I would think that killing people on occasion, driving people to brink of insanity or putting them in a position(Bankrupting) where they'd commint suicide, torturing people, manipulating children and turning them into child soldiers and enjoying it is just as hardcore/sadistic. She's also started wars between countries because she was bored. As well as ordered assassinations on leaders of other countries.

Off topic: But has Frank actually come across the Hellfire Club? It's possible but I'm just curious since I own most of the HC appearances and I don't think he'd live to tell the tale if he'd ever come across any version of the Inner Circle barring the first one that was made up of humans. Also the fact that the members of the Inner Circle are kept secret. Not even the Avengers knew.
Maybe he came across a few no-named goons.

[Kasper Cole]

I'd probably say she's more so then two of the three you mentioned since two of those are more street level.

If anything them being street level makes them harder than Emma. It's one thing to be tough and cutthroat when you have superpower and a bottomless bank account, it's another to be a normal human and having some of the biggest names in the criminal underworld afraid to even mention you name.

As White Queen the circles she ran in and the people she dealt with were far shadier then any common street thug.

They don't just deal with common street thugs, Frank Castle will (and has) go after anybody who is or contributes to violent criminals. Elektra has run ins with the Hand and Hydra.


Emma Frost not only toyed with peoples lives but she killed people as well and to my knowledge has not regreted any of it because in her mind they all deserved it. In fact not once has Emma felt guilty about killing someone. The only thing Emma regrets is not being able to save her students and that's something that came out in the 90's. She was on the brink of turning Storm into a vegetable. Emma killed her Hellfire Goons left right and center for failing her. She killed a horse and Firestars friend in order to turn her into a weapon against Selene. Selene and herself placed a bet on one of her goons and his head exploded and she didn't even wince. She killed her sister and we had an entire issue on her making Batman her lap dog and how she only wishes she'd have killed her sooner. Emma's only regrets are her students everything she's done in her past have been for her own self interests and she doesn't regret any of that.
If you were to go back and read her first appearances, Emma was one of the few X-Villians who you could actually say was written as pure evil especially her motivation. It's one of the reasons why her redemption took like 15 years real time. There was not a shred of nobleness in her character until much later in her comic book career where they watered her down a bit but even now she still gives Wolverine a run for his money.

The character she is now isn't who she was then. She does feel a degree of guilt over her past deeds, otherwise she wouldn't even be an X-man. Most of the stories about Emma the past decade or so have delt with her wanting to redeem herself on some level.

As for ruthlessness...she's far more sadistic then Fury and Elektra. And even Wolverine.
Ruthlessness and sadism are two different things. If this was just about being sadistic Bullseye and the red skull would be the top choices. Emma is by no means more ruthless than Fury or Frank. Like I said most of the things you mentioned her doing was a long time ago, her simply being an X-men shows that some of the edge she had is gone.

Emma's delved into 8 billion tortured minds before it would be very easy for her barring plot induced stupidity.

It wasn't as if it was easy for her to do that and she has been show to atleast need time to get past certain mental block. To my knowledge she can't get past psy scramblers at all.

Emma Frost is without a doubt hard, tough, whatever you want to call, but she's not in the top tier of those categories.

[B. Kuwanger]

Off topic: But has Frank actually come across the Hellfire Club? It's possible but I'm just curious since I own most of the HC appearances and I don't think he'd live to tell the tale if he'd ever come across any version of the Inner Circle barring the first one that was made up of humans. Also the fact that the members of the Inner Circle are kept secret. Not even the Avengers knew.
Maybe he came across a few no-named goons.

I don't think so. I also don't recall him coming across any X-Men besides Wolverine.

[ExodusCloak]

If anything them being street level makes them harder than Emma. It's one thing to be tough and cutthroat when you have superpower and a bottomless bank account, it's another to be a normal human and having some of the biggest names in the criminal underworld afraid to even mention you name.
They don't just deal with common street thugs, Frank Castle will (and has) go after anybody who is or contributes to violent criminals. Elektra has run ins with the Hand and Hydra.

The point I was trying to make was that the people Emma hung out with during her Hellfire days would have been the bosses of the people that Frank and Elektra dealt with.

The character she is now isn't who she was then. She does feel a degree of guilt over her past deeds, otherwise she wouldn't even be an X-man. Most of the stories about Emma the past decade or so have delt with her wanting to redeem herself on some level.
Ruthlessness and sadism are two different things. If this was just about being sadistic Bullseye and the red skull would be the top choices. Emma is by no means more ruthless than Fury or Frank. Like I said most of the things you mentioned her doing was a long time ago, her simply being an X-men shows that some of the edge she had is gone.

See again that's not entirely true. If you were to go to the X-boards and ask why a lot of people dislike Emma Frost it's more so the reason that she's gotten a golden ticket into the X-Club without proving herself. During those years of redemption in Gen X Emma did prove herself. But on the last few issues she went and murdered an Agent investigating the death of her sister whom she murdered so she pretty much reverted and a few months later gets an invite into the X-Men.

The edge is actually still there, the writers just play it in such a way that she still has to watch herself now that she's an X-Men. For example Sublime falling out a window...did Emma throw him or did Martha make him jump? Snapping of Cassandra Nova's/Xavier's neck...even Wolverine was shocked. She also didn't feel bad when Exodus's lungs were sliced up in the MC.
Emma's interests have always been herself and her students. Yes she feels guilty but it's not about killing people who she thought deserved to die. You could probably say the same thing about Frank, the people he goes after are people he thinks deserve to die.

It wasn't as if it was easy for her to do that and she has been show to atleast need time to get past certain mental block. To my knowledge she can't get past psy scramblers at all.

Depends on the mental block. Emma has no problem breaking normal mental blocks. Artifical ones take time but she's broken Sentinel O.N.E's psy blockers and the Marauders Psi-Scramblers.

Emma Frost is without a doubt hard, tough, whatever you want to call, but she's not in the top tier of those categories.

I guess we'd have to disagree there about that last bit. Unlike most of the people mentioned in the thread she prefers not to get her hands dirty but I definitely think she's more hardcore then Elektra.

[marvell2100]

Emma's delved into 8 billion tortured minds before it would be very easy for her barring plot induced stupidity.

As Sabretooth and Wolverine has proven many times before, telepaths have a hard time dealing with psychotic, strong willed individuals and Frank is one such individual.

As far as Emma killing people, her body count can't touch what Frank does in one day. Killing without compunction? Again, no one better than Frank He endures pain without the benefit of a healing factor. It doesn't matter what circles she or anybody else runs in. We're not talking about badass debutantes here. Pound for pound I would put Frank at the top of the hardest/toughest list with Spidey right beside him. While Spidey doesn't kill he endures alot more than most heroes stronger than him. The heroe than comes closest to these two would be Thor. He's gone to Hel, lost his face in the process and came out alive.

[ExodusCloak]

As Sabretooth and Wolverine has proven many times before, telepaths have a hard time dealing with psychotic, strong willed individuals and Frank is one such individual.

As far as Emma killing people, her body count can't touch what Frank does in one day. Killing without compunction? Again, no one better than Frank He endures pain without the benefit of a healing factor. It doesn't matter what circles she or anybody else runs in. We're not talking about badass debutantes here. Pound for pound I would put Frank at the top of the hardest/toughest list with Spidey right beside him. While Spidey doesn't kill he endures alot more than most heroes stronger than him. The heroe than comes closest to these two would be Thor. He's gone to Hel, lost his face in the process and came out alive.

Wolverine has artificial psi-blockers as well as mental ones from Xavier. Sabertooth has artifical ones. Their healing factors/scarred tissue also provides protection from telepathic probing everything else eg. Mind Blasts are fair game. Frank has none of those and Emma has gotten Wolverine 3 types already.

I'm not sure we're both using the same type of definition of hard here. Since you'd consider Spidey above Emma let alone above others like Moon Knight. Emma's survived genocide.

I was thinking more on the lines of anti-heroes when I saw this thread as in how far will one go to get something done and who will do it with the most style(Which is a personal preference I guess). That's my definition of "hardest" anyway.

[marvell2100]

Wolverine has artificial psi-blockers and as well mental ones from Xavier. As does Sabertooth. Their healing factors/scarred tissue also provides protection from telepathic probing everything else eg. Mind Blasts are fair game. Frank has none of those.

I'm not sure we're both using the same type of definition of hard here. Since you'd consider Spidey above Emma let alone others like Moon Knight. Emma's survived genocide.

I was thinking more on the lines of anti-heroes when I saw this thread as in how far will one go to get something done and who will do it with the most style(Which is a personal preference I guess). That's my definition of "hardest" anyway.

Emma survived M-Day because she got lucky not because of anything she did.

Hardest to me would be the person who can endure the most pain, who will stop at nothing to get the job done and can mix it up with the best of them in a brawl, regardless of style.

[ExodusCloak]

Emma survived M-Day because she got lucky not because of anything she did.

Hardest to me would be the person who can endure the most pain, who will stop at nothing to get the job done and can mix it up with the best of them in a brawl, regardless of style.

I wasn't counting M-Day as genocide. Was talking about Genosha and the 16 million mutants that the sentinels killed.

[Kasper Cole]

The point I was trying to make was that the people Emma hung out with during her Hellfire days would have been the bosses of the people that Frank and Elektra dealt with.

Oh ok, I'm not disputing that Emma ran with more influential and powerful people, it just doesn't make her harder than anyone (or softer for that matter).

See again that's not entirely true. If you were to go to the X-boards and ask why a lot of people dislike Emma Frost it's more so the reason that she's gotten a golden ticket into the X-Club without proving herself. During those years of redemption in Gen X Emma did prove herself. But on the last few issues she went and murdered an Agent investigating the death of her sister whom she murdered so she pretty much reverted and a few months later gets an invite into the X-Men.

I think Emma got into the X-Men too easily also, hell it irks me that some of those snot nosed knuckleheads in new warriors consider themselves former X-men. I was pointing out that Emma wants to be an X-Man and a big part of her wanting that is so she can prove she's a better person. Think of all the times she's been shown referring to herself as a horrible/bad person, and she does so with regret, she's not just talking about the kids that have died on her watch, she's talking about specific deeds that she had done.

The edge is actually still there, the writers just play it in such a way that she still has to watch herself now that she's an X-Men. For example Sublime falling out a window...did Emma throw him or did Martha make him jump? Snapping of Cassandra Nova's/Xavier's neck...even Wolverine was shocked. She also didn't feel bad when Exodus's lungs were sliced up in the MC.

She has an Edge, just not as much as she used to, being with Scott has changed her, much of her ruthlessness came from her not giving a damn about anyone but herself but now she cares too much, she's not as detached as the others I mentioned are.

Emma's interests have always been herself and her students. Yes she feels guilty but it's not about killing people who she thought deserved to die. You could probably say the same thing about Frank, the people he goes after are people he thinks deserve to die.

As I stated above, Emma cares about a lot more now in terms of people and what said people think of her.

Depends on the mental block. Emma has no problem breaking normal mental blocks. Artifical ones take time but she's broken Sentinel O.N.E's psy blockers and the Marauders Psi-Scramblers.

If Anybody would have top of the line mental blocks and psy scramblers it would be Nick "Bat-God aint got nothing on me" Fury.

[Alan2099]

When thinking of the toughest, hardest, whatever, I think about the guys that even without any powers, weapons, or anything like that, will keep coming no matter how badly you beat them down and still put a world of hurt on ya'. the guy that you'd have to kill to stop, because hurting them just isn't going to work, break bones, saw of a limb, these guys are going to keep coming.

When it comes down to that, Punisher, Fury,. Wolverine, Namor, Thing, and Thor are the ones that come to mind. Emma would just end up in a corner cryin if she had to deal with the stuff they've had to deal with.

Emma's a cold hearted B**ch but that doesn't make her tough.

[Raptor]

When thinking of the toughest, hardest, whatever, I think about the guys that even without any powers, weapons, or anything like that, will keep coming no matter how badly you beat them down and still put a world of hurt on ya'. the guy that you'd have to kill to stop, because hurting them just isn't going to work, break bones, saw of a limb, these guys are going to keep coming.

When it comes down to that, Punisher, Fury,. Wolverine, Namor, Thing, and Thor are the ones that come to mind. Emma would just end up in a corner cryin if she had to deal with the stuff they've had to deal with.

Emma's a cold hearted B**ch but that doesn't make her tough.

I'd have to agree. Though I agree Spider-Man should be on the list also.

If we're reffering to ability to withstand stress, Psylocke, Jubes, or Meltdown...maybe Angel.

I'd put Cap and Daredevil in the running.

My top picks. Nick Fury, then Punisher, then Wolverine.

[marvell2100]

I wasn't counting M-Day as genocide. Was talking about Genosha and the 16 million mutants that the sentinels killed.

Was Emma even on Genosha when that happened? I don't think Emma or too many others could survive the kind of life that Frank lives. Frank's whole life has been a war and he doesn't get back up or someone to cover him.

[Expletive Deleted]

Was Emma even on Genosha when that happened?Yes. The attack triggered her secondary mutation, and the X-Men found her holding the body of one of her students.

[marvell2100]

Yes. The attack triggered her secondary mutation, and the X-Men found her holding the body of one of her students.

Didn't know that. Thanks.

[Desmodus]

How can Emma be in the toughest/hardest bracket when Scott didn't even tell her about the hit squad he was assembling?

She's not tough, she's just a bitch.

The Punisher, Moon Knight and Daredevil are my picks.

[princekilderkin]

for shear ability to keep going against a more powerful adversay and never give up, the Thing, always the heart of a lion.

for ability to take damage and pain (as appose to being invunerable) Wolverine and Hulk

for shear courage against all odds, Captain America and Thor.

but for the character i think is written to deliberatly show this quality i would say cable or Wolverine

[Limited edition]

The punisher, Wolverine, and the Hulk are my picks.

[RolandJP]

BLADE

He is so tough he managed to break Marvel's 20 year track record of god awful movies and be the first Marvel U character to do well on the big screen.

[jrc_burgess]

1. Magneto; crazily powerful in his abilities so hes tough there but also he faces constant defeat of his plans, the deaths of his first child and wife. Another child gone mad partly due to his actions and destroyed his dream of mutant supremacy. Son and heir hates him. Widely vilified around the world. Depowered/weakened/seriously injured/comatosed all the time. But still comes through it all.

2. Cable; entire life one long painful struggle against impossible odds but never gives up. The recent arc in his own series really underlines this aspect of him. I love the world weary soldier thing.

3. Peter Wisdom; suffered horribly throughout his life. Much loss. But still 100% devoted to his role. The importance of him being an agent of the government and NOT a superhero I think is really important with him. A real case of the guy who does what has to be done.

[cable guy]

Punisher
Cable
Wolverine
Hulk
Captain America

[Agamemnon]

Frank Castle wins this hands down, with Wolverine in second place. Spider-Man might sound like a strange choice but he has shown he can take as much pain, emotional and physical, as anyone in the MU. As well as the anguish in his personal life, Spidey is regularly shot, battered, electrocuted, bounced off walls, etc., but he keeps getting up and getting on with the job.

[Ferago]

Shouldn't Deadpool get some points here? He's constantly getting blown apart, and makes a joke out of it.

Punisher and Nick Fury are the toughest though. They don't even have healing factor or any of that junk.

[Jeff-E]

Punisher
Nick Fury
*sigh* Wolverine :rolleyes:

I hate throwing him on this list, but he fits. These 3 I think really could be tortured to death and probably never scream, let alone give up information they may have. Things like that are what I think about when it comes to "hardness" of a character. That and what they've endoured and kept going, and these 3 have seen lots of crap and still keep on, keepin on. Emma i.m.o. doesn't even rank, throw an inhibiter collar on her and drag her to a flea market or a soup kitchen and she'd give you the X Mansions security codes to get out of a situation like that. Her upper crust high society attitude and beliefs would be her downfall. As was stated earlier she's not really that hard, she's just a bitch. Spiderman almost went up also, just because of the sheer amount of crap he has taken over the years and he keeps fighting and keeps going. The three up top have him beat, but as far as non soldiers go, Peter would definitely be up there.

[Henker]

Punisher, no question.

[Tobys]

Punisher
Nick Fury
*sigh* Wolverine :rolleyes:

I hate throwing him on this list, but he fits. These 3 I think really could be tortured to death and probably never scream, let alone give up information they may have. Things like that are what I think about when it comes to "hardness" of a character. That and what they've endoured and kept going, and these 3 have seen lots of crap and still keep on, keepin on. Emma i.m.o. doesn't even rank, throw an inhibiter collar on her and drag her to a flea market or a soup kitchen and she'd give you the X Mansions security codes to get out of a situation like that. Her upper crust high society attitude and beliefs would be her downfall. As was stated earlier she's not really that hard, she's just a bitch. Spiderman almost went up also, just because of the sheer amount of crap he has taken over the years and he keeps fighting and keeps going. The three up top have him beat, but as far as non soldiers go, Peter would definitely be up there.

Course you have to dsitinguish between Pre and post OMD spidey.

Like back when he had moral integrity.... and a wife

[Alan2099]

Like back when he had moral integrity.... and a wife
Right. Now he just has the moral integrity, no wife, and a bunch of people that use every excuse possible to slam the book by overexagerating and and complety making up all sorts of crazy complaints ... expecially when the topic isn't about OMD to begin with.

[Trey]

Hardness : an attribute characterized by physical and mental toughness due to living in hostile urban environments

Frank Castle, 'nuff said
Wolverine (mental and physical torture, hated by humanity, used and abused, yet in the end, the best there is at what he does)

Thor (kicking ass in Asgard since the Dark Ages) In the end, no matter the odds, he will beat you down, with fists or a hammer. your choice.

[Alan2099]

Shouldn't Deadpool get some points here? He's constantly getting blown apart, and makes a joke out of it.

Yeah, but he's crazy. That doesn't count.

[sHayden]

I'm going to step into the Frank Castle camp on this one.
My logic goes back to the days of Punisher Armory
Look at the entries from his POV. Detailed and meticulous stats of guns, knives, and other instruments to do his job.
Plus, it's about never backing down. Even if Cap or Daredevil is kicking his teeth down his throat, Castle never surrenders. He is in it until the end.

[SpCtre]

1. Nick Fury

2. Frank Castle

3. Steve Rogers

[SpCtre]

1. Nick Fury

2. Frank Castle

3. Steve Rogers

[Tobys]

Right. Now he just has the moral integrity, no wife, and a bunch of people that use every excuse possible to slam the book by overexagerating and and complety making up all sorts of crazy complaints ... expecially when the topic isn't about OMD to begin with.

there is no 'overexagerating' dealing with Satan to prolong the life of someone who wants to die is immoral its that simple all the way through.

[Deus ex Chris]

Storm. Duh.

[GalactaSurfer]

Hardness : an attribute characterized by physical and mental toughness due to living in hostile urban environments

Frank Castle, 'nuff said
Wolverine (mental and physical torture, hated by humanity, used and abused, yet in the end, the best there is at what he does)

Thor (kicking ass in Asgard since the Dark Ages) In the end, no matter the odds, he will beat you down, with fists or a hammer. your choice.

You can add to that list Luke Cage! Aint no one harder than the unbreakable man!

[Alan2099]

there is no 'overexagerating' dealing with Satan to prolong the life of someone who wants to die is immoral its that simple all the way through.

Sure there is. You just did so.

[Libaax]

Not to take anything away from Ennis' Punisher, but wasn't the Punisher a bad ass LONG before Ennis even started writing comics? He seemed pretty bad-ass when Frank Miller used him in Daredevil and in that original Mike Zeck limited series. I know, I'm going old school here...


Of course he was badass before. But when people think the Punisher in Civil War with Cap America wannabe costume is a wuss then you show them some bleak,hardcore Max Punisher story.

People have short memory they wont remember old school runs if its not their favorite character anyway.

[sHayden]

You can add to that list Luke Cage! Aint no one harder than the unbreakable man!

It's unbreakable skin. Couldn't you still do horrible internal damage to him?

[celticguy]

For me a person who is hard is not jsut tough but willing to do the wrong thing for the right reason

Frank Castle
Moonknight
Nick Fury
Namor

[jubilees_boyfriend]

I know someone else mentioned her- but I'm going to say that Jubilee would fit the list. She isn't the hardest or toughest, but she is up there with all of the deaths, kidnappings, and torturing she has endured. Not to mention her confrontations against Sauron, Mandarin, the Hand, Sabertooth, Lady Deathstrike, Magneto, Bastion, Juggernaut, etc at such a young age back then.

[jackdaw53]

Blimey O"Riley. Isn't it obvious that its Aunt Petunia's favorite blue eyed nephew. Toughest by far... not in the modern sense of being cruel to others... but in sense of taking all life's knocks, getting up and fighting on.

Countless battle honors show that... not least.. his fight against the Hulk in FF25. Everybody in the universe (and his dog too) knew the Hulk was a darn sight stronger than the Thing. Well maybe everybody except Ben Grimm himself... and he fought on and on against near impossible odds. Just like he always does.

[GalactaSurfer]

It's unbreakable skin. Couldn't you still do horrible internal damage to him?

Yep and hes bounced back from that. When your talking about hard and hero Luke Cage fits the bill.

[Exo]

I'm suprised Ares hasn't been mentioned. He's (arguably) an immortal Punisher.

[Leebenhouse]

It's unbreakable skin. Couldn't you still do horrible internal damage to him?

Actually it's steel-hard skin, and steel isnt anywhere near as hard as diamond. Plus, it used to be that Cage still felt whatever was hitting him, so though bullets couldnt break his skin, they still hurt him.

And you had to use a laser to operate on him.

Heck, Cage had a villain that could take him down with a seven-barrelled shotgun!

[4sake]

I know someone else mentioned her- but I'm going to say that Jubilee would fit the list. She isn't the hardest or toughest, but she is up there with all of the deaths, kidnappings, and torturing she has endured. Not to mention her confrontations against Sauron, Mandarin, the Hand, Sabertooth, Lady Deathstrike, Magneto, Bastion, Juggernaut, etc at such a young age back then.

I agree completely

[Kasper Cole]

Actually it's steel-hard skin, and steel isnt anywhere near as hard as diamond. Plus, it used to be that Cage still felt whatever was hitting him, so though bullets couldnt break his skin, they still hurt him.

And you had to use a laser to operate on him.

Heck, Cage had a villain that could take him down with a seven-barrelled shotgun!

Nah, he's been upgraded to unbreakable for like the past 5 years or so. Which makes sense, everybody else was getting power upgrades but him, I mean damn even past pot pete got upgrades lol.

[Libaax]

Frank Castle

Daredevil - He is a tough fighter who has taken alot of beating physicly and alot more mentally. He is a survivor.

Bucky - tough ever since he became Winter Soldier and the loss years. Hope he goes back to Winter Soldier after Cap America days.

Elektra

[Sabaition]

Blimey O"Riley. Isn't it obvious that its Aunt Petunia's favorite blue eyed nephew. Toughest by far... not in the modern sense of being cruel to others... but in sense of taking all life's knocks, getting up and fighting on.

Countless battle honors show that... not least.. his fight against the Hulk in FF25. Everybody in the universe (and his dog too) knew the Hulk was a darn sight stronger than the Thing. Well maybe everybody except Ben Grimm himself... and he fought on and on against near impossible odds. Just like he always does.

I agree... If your talking toughest mentally, it's gotta be Ben Grim aka THING!!! However most might try to argue this due to his recent PUNCHING BAG sats he's gotta the last few years.

Anyone who doesnt know just look for Marvels Thing series called "And they shall call him... CHAMPION!!!" where Ben effectively earn the toughness stamp.

If you mean just phyically that I see it like this...

He's a guy who is possibly as tough as Thor, thing is Thor has something he doesnt... Armor!!! No one every takes armor into account. Watch what I mean and really think about it.

Juggernaut: Doesnt feel the pain, thats not tough, that's lack of feeling

Hulk: He's crazy... Crazy isnt' tough, it's just crazy and doesnt know better

Kursed: Dark Armor

Thor: Armor and sometimes bloodlust alil tough and crazy

ect...

This guy fights Sky Fathers, Demons and Magical Weapons made to kill him. Yet he keeps going, fighting and dragging himself into battle. When told he would die if he continued to fight a God, he smiled... SMILED and kept punching.

He's trained heroes and has even battled against odds while weakened AND drunk. Shoot, he beat the Blood Brother... While NAKED!!!

He has near Thing level mental toughness, near Cap America level courage and Thor level opponents without the armor or extra powers. Take away his care free attitude and you realize this is one tough dude... Hopefully when his book ends everyone else will have new perspective because I dont recall seeing his name once. My vote,

The Lion of Olympus... HERCULES!!!

[FistofIron]

I'm suprised Ares hasn't been mentioned. He's (arguably) an immortal Punisher.

I'm suprised I forgot to mention him.:confused:

[rwsmith]

hard as hell:

Wolverine, Frank Castle, Nick Fury, Cable, Marc Spector, Namor. All warriors. I guess I'd say Bucky too.

I agree with this list except for Namor. He's too prissy IMO. Oh, and what about Dr. Doom? That guy is hard as hell. In fact, he's escaped from hell before!

[Deus ex Chris]

I agree with this list except for Namor. He's too prissy IMO. Oh, and what about Dr. Doom? That guy is hard as hell. In fact, he's escaped from hell before!

Being prissy doesn't preclude being tough.