What do you think of Africa

[stelok]

I understand why Middle East particularly Israel, Iraq and Afghanistan get much more attention than the Africa. We often had recent discussions about the turmoil in Middle East because it affects the interests of the U.S.A

But there are recent violent crises in many african nations like Zimbabwe, Madagascar, etc. I think the media will often ignore it because the Africa's problems has no effect on the world affairs like Europe used to in 2 World Wars or Middle East currently does.


There is HIV/AIDS, other diseases, dictatorship, inter-country wars, civil wars, election violence, famine, poverty, corruption, a high crime rate and lack of democracy in any African nation, especially the post-Apartheid South Africa. More Africans have died of AIDS than the people in non-African nations.

I have already thought that Africa was a lost and hopeless cause that the U.N. shouldn't waste their international funds and assistance trying to help people stave off malnutrition and disease, as long as the incompetent, corrupt, selfish and anti-democratic leaders are still in power.

Well, I'm beginning to see Ra's Al Ghul may have been right.

do you suppose the President Obama, would bother invading sovereign African nations in order to free them from the dictators as Bush did in Iraq and Afghanistan?



I am not overlooking that also South America and some Asian nations has military juntas, poverty and corruption

[jesse_custer]

Every time I hear someone talk about Africa, it's usually negative.

This thread fits the pattern.

[thehod]

Probably Toto's greatest track.

[OverMaster]

There is HIV/AIDS, other diseases, dictatorship, inter-country wars, civil wars, election violence, famine, poverty, corruption, a high crime rate and lack of democracy in any African nation, especially the post-Apartheid South Africa. More Africans have died of AIDS than the people in non-African nations.

I have already thought that Africa was a lost and hopeless cause that the U.N. shouldn't waste their international funds and assistance trying to help people stave off malnutrition and disease, as long as the incompetent, corrupt, selfish and anti-democratic leaders are still in power.

Well, I'm beginning to see Ra's Al Ghul may have been right.


Yeah, they suffer a lot. But I'm somehow sure it's their own fault, so why to help them at all? Let's just kill them all! Why to take any REAL effort to make them better? It's just a wasted job!

Very humane.

And I say this as someone living at South America, which most people at the First World barely can tell apart from Africa. If Ra's comes after me, I'll go after you!

[Omega Alpha]

Obama could and should try to influence how things go in countries like Sudan and Zimbawe in several ways, but invading it would just be a variation of Bush. The USA are not the world's police, and, without UN sanction, shouldn't invade other countries. That only helps make the invaded nations despots into heroes and increases the anti-American hate, making the world think "who's to say where they'll stop next? They might as well be invading my country next ", which obviously can't help anything.

As for Africa specifically, they seem like a hopeless cause. Not that they are necessarily, but the steps for almost any African country to become viable are too many and too big, plus most rich countries just don't seem to think it is worthwhile.

[Jeremi]

Probably Toto's greatest track.

Damn...beat me to it.

[Matt Algren]

Wait, which one's Africa? Is that the one where everybody's upside down all the time? I don't think I'd like that.

[OverMaster]

Wait, which one's Africa? Is that the one where everybody's upside down all the time? I don't think I'd like that.

It's where lions and zebras dance 'You got to move it, move it' together.

[Shellhead]

I read a great book about Africa many years ago, titled Squandering Eden. The author traveled about Africa to get a first hand look at the different problems faced in different parts of the continent. One lasting impression was that European colonialism caused a lot of problems that have lingered long after they left. And then the cold war games between NATO and the Communist Bloc didn't help.

Here's a review (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DEEDD1F3CF93AA15752C1A9619482 60&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1) of Squandering Eden from the New York Times.

For example, it was common for colonial powers to agree upon borders based on geographical features like rivers, but often times a given group of people traditionally lived on both sides of a given river. So they end up split into two countries, possibly now at the mercy of another group that was their traditional rival or even enemy. Another problem is that there are so many languages still spoken in Africa, so communication is a challenge in running any given country.

The idea that Obama will save Africa is naive and unrealistic. Several years of tax cuts combined with military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan have drained our coffers, and now this current economic crisis practically guarantees that the U.S. doesn't have the resources to apply military troops to problems in Africa. And without military force, there is no leverage to persuade the various dictatorships in Africa to rise above the default corruption and inefficiency.

[Mac Danny]

I know it's the only place to see lions..

Where can you see Lions??
Only in Kenya
Come to Kenya we've got Lions!

Forget Norway! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkI4P6GlLgk)

[Mac Danny]

Probably Toto's greatest track.

I do miss the rains there..

[Matt Algren]

Africa would be awesome if it weren't for the Africans.

[thespianphryne]

I do miss the rains there..

Is that why you never get around to blessing them?

[Lone Ranger]

First, let me say that I hate (and I mean hate) it when someone discusses 'Africa' as a whole. From Libya to Namibia, from The Gambia to Tanzania, it is a continent filled with many countries and cultures. Each country has its own strengths and its own set of problems.

I have visited 8 countries in Africa - Ghana, Burkina Faso, Togo, Benin, Kenya, Tanzania, Zambia and Mozambique. They are each unique, and I can't imagine painting them with the same brush.

stelhok - your argument that these people are not worth saving is insane at best, and inhumane at worst. I'm hoping it's all tongue in cheek (a la Thomas Paine's Modest Proposal - but I fear not).

Many countries in Africa have had a tough time during the post-colonial era. Much of that is due to the Colonial hangovers, the Cold War, greedy multinationals and the natural growing pains that any new democracy faces.

If democracy continues to flourish, and trade barriers begin to fall - many nations in Africa will be able to enjoy a degree of sucess.

Battlling HIV/AIDS is a major part of it - as often takes people in the primes of their lives, and this will ultimately impact an economy's productivity.

The one sweeping generalization I will say about the people with whom I've spoken in 'Africa' is that they share an unbelievable love for life and an incredible amount of optimism while living in conditions that would kill most westerners in a weekend. As a solo traveller, I've never met more giving and welcoming people than those I've met in places like Bolgatanga, Ghana or Kare, Togo.

If they handed out a Nobel Prize for ignorance, I'd suggest that you call your travel agent about flights to Sweden.

[OverMaster]

Africa would be awesome if it weren't for the Africans.

And the mosquitos. Damn mosquitos.

[Dreadstar]

I only have one question:


Are we still boycotting Sun City?

[Mac Danny]

I only have one question:


Are we still boycotting Sun City?

Why? Did they build the City on Rock and Roll?

[SOGG]

Having been to Ethiopia, South Africa, Egypt and Djibouti, I've got to second Lone Ranger's post. Damns, stelok, hitting the lambanog a little hard?

[Matt Algren]

In the interest of clarity, I feel I must point out that my posts here have been sarcastic.

[thehod]

I do miss the rains there..


Is that why you never get around to blessing them?

I'm personally a big fan of how Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti.



that's a fucking terrible lyric

[Slam_Bradley]

I almost never think of Africa.

[Dreadstar]

Africa is still a better strategy than Europe and Asia in Risk, especially if you can get South America.

[jesse_custer]

I'm hoping it's all tongue in cheek (a la Thomas Paine's Modest Proposal - but I fear not).

Jonathan Swift, you mean.

That's one of my favorite pieces of writing.

[Mac Danny]

Africa is still a better strategy than Europe and Asia in Risk, especially if you can get South America.

Australia is better to defend.. Asia leaves you open for the Kamchatka Buttfuck!

[Lone Ranger]

Jonathan Swift, you mean.

That's one of my favorite pieces of writing.

I have no idea why I typed Thomas Paine.

Typing too fast with steam coming out my ears.

[spoon_jenkins]

I only have one question:


Are we still boycotting Sun City?
No, now we are going to play Sun City!


I love that the people of Togo are Togolese. It's much better than being Togoan.

[jesse_custer]

I have no idea why I typed Thomas Paine.

Well, he's another very good writer at least.

[darkhanamaru]

I only have one question:


Are we still boycotting Sun City?

But i have to go to the World Cup!

[StoneGold]

I think it's a big continent made up of a lot of different countries, and to try to look at Africa's problems as a whole is like assuming that the problems of Canada and Panama are the same.


Apparently, Panama's primary problems are all car-seat-moving-back related.

[xgeek52]

y'know this is not the first thread i've seen about africa (not here)...and almost always they cause responses just like these...

so i tend to avoid them...

nobody talks about africa because no one can...it's too broad with -- as someone put it -- with too many countries with too many diverse cultures...

my point is when the subject of africa comes up either online or off, my first question is which country...

[midnightman2001]

Ethiopian road runner is teh fastest bird in teh world! :eek: :tongue: :biggrin:

[Libaax]

As a somalian from a country who has never had a real democracy in their history.
It makes me smile a bitersweet smile when i hear North Americans,europeans talk about africa like its one and single country.

The ignorance of the thread maker shows whats so wrong with that. Talking about like there is dictatorship,other problems in every African country.

My own father can remember the europeans who owned our country. So i think most of us are f´cked for a long time into the future too.

The sad thing is i wish i was from South Africa or some african country who has high crime rate,aids etc but no Anarky,civil war,clan,religion issues as Somalia.

[Night]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Life_Expectancy_2008_Estimates_CIA_World_Factbook. png/800px-Life_Expectancy_2008_Estimates_CIA_World_Factbook. png
Africa is the one that has parts where the life expectancy under 40. And we're worried about health care in the US... I keep a copy of this as a reminder

Then there's Bono and this social justice movement he's working with, one.org involving both the left and the right and I see some actual minds changed by what he's done.

And there's people from my old hometown out there making a difference and actually going and seeing for themselves. Starfish Kenya (http://www.starfishkenya.com/stories.html)

[dupont2005]

Africa is the one that has parts where the life expectancy under 40. And we're worried about health care in the US...


what does one have to do with the other? are you saying there is something wrong with wanting things better even though people in another hemisphere have it worse?

[Augusto]

What do you think of Africa?

Where the hell in the map is Wakanda?:confused:

I take your statements as very vague. Every country needs to solve their own particular problems apartheid, diamonds trade, comunication, governments corruption, education.

I don't know if this could be bad for cultural identity, but they must erase the hate between tribes inside the same country. They must learn to live peacefully.

[mgs]

Africa is so messed up, as a whole, that it will not even resemble the stability of 'european' nations for at least 3 generations from yours now.

It's problems are more ancient than what Israel and Palestine has to deal with and it's the whole continent!

In addition, it's one of the world's poorest & most underdeveloped continents and barely, 'up-to-date'.

[Night]

what does one have to do with the other? are you saying there is something wrong with wanting things better even though people in another hemisphere have it worse? Wanting is different than obsessing. For example there's a craze over "natural" things. I can count how many times I hear how much anything natural is better than anything synthetic. Natural is dying in parts of Africa. There was a time when US life expectancy was at about that level, but we have increased greatly. That's heath wealth we can share instead of keeping it all for ourselves. Everything we do affects the world around us.

[dupont2005]

Wanting is different than obsessing. For example there's a craze over "natural" things. I can count how many times I hear how much anything natural is better than anything synthetic. Natural is dying in parts of Africa. There was a time when US life expectancy was at about that level, but we have increased greatly. That's heath wealth we can share instead of keeping it all for ourselves. Everything we do affects the world around us.

we already do share, a great deal. as far as i know, more than any other nation. how much more should we share? when are we sharing enough?

[ILLUS]

America doesn't participate in African affairs because of the deep seeds of racism. We supported apartheid and colonialism for years. We still haven't even accepted our own responsibility in the deterioration of the continent.

[rick]

we already do share, a great deal. as far as i know, more than any other nation. how much more should we share? when are we sharing enough?

As a happy liberal, I'll answer that one for you.

We are sharing enough, when nobody is starving, everybody has clean water and all the kids are vacinated.

Everywhere.

In the meantime our soft and pleasent lives are at least to some degree built up on the suffering of others.

[rick]

America doesn't participate in African affairs because of the deep seeds of racism. We supported apartheid and colonialism for years. We still haven't even accepted our own responsibility in the deterioration of the continent.


America doesn't participate in African affairs?

Tell that to the parts of Africa with oil, gold or diamonds.

[section 8]

Every time the US refuses to gets involved with the affairs of other nations, the rest of the world calls us "callous" hates us for it.

Every time we do get involved, the rest of the world says we are "Interfering" and hates us for it.

I say we might as well stay home and save our money

[dupont2005]

As a happy liberal, I'll answer that one for you.

We are sharing enough, when nobody is starving, everybody has clean water and all the kids are vacinated.

Everywhere.

In the meantime our soft and pleasent lives are at least to some degree built up on the suffering of others.

what if there just isn't enough to go around, and by feeding and vaccinating an entire continent we would suffer ourselves?

[rick]

what if there just isn't enough to go around, and by feeding and vaccinating an entire continent we would suffer ourselves?

Why that would be a sad and serious problem.

Luckily, there is enough food, water and medicine to go around, and it’s just greed and politics standing in the way of it getting spread around to everyone.

[Crowforge]

So many horrible people on this forum...
I think Africa as a whole is doing pretty well despite it's troubles. You only hear bad news coming out of africa, but that's not because nothing else happens it's just what the rest of the world focuses on. Europe has dictators, war, and disease and somehow that doesn't count?
I often wonder what could the african diaspora could do to help african...

[Augusto]

what if there just isn't enough to go around, and by feeding and vaccinating an entire continent we would suffer ourselves?

The average american citizen or european eats a lot more than he needs. Obesity its becoming epidemic and public health concern in western world. Meanwhile there's people dying in starvation.

[Crowforge]

Epidemic is too strong a word.

[The Black Guardian]

Epidemic is too strong a word.
It's not strong enough. Obesity in the US qualifies as pandemic.

[section 8]

So many horrible people on this forum...
.

Be that as it may, we still ain't got nothin' on Africa :tongue:

[stelok]

Yeah, they suffer a lot. But I'm somehow sure it's their own fault, so why to help them at all? Let's just kill them all! Why to take any REAL effort to make them better? It's just a wasted job!

Very humane.

And I say this as someone living at South America, which most people at the First World barely can tell apart from Africa. If Ra's comes after me, I'll go after you!

Well, aside from your sarcastic comments, I'm sure it is the fault of their inept governments, but what if they can't help themselves? God helps those who help themselves. It's better to teach them how to fish so they would live a lifetime than feed them fish so they live a day.




stelhok - your argument that these people are not worth saving is insane at best, and inhumane at worst. I'm hoping it's all tongue in cheek (a la Thomas Paine's Modest Proposal - but I fear not).

.

I know it sounds inhumane, but you feed the hungry people who can't still even feed themselves so they can live one more day of misery?
To prolong their misery or to end their misery....which is more inhumane? Well, as a supporter of euthanasia, I feel it is more compassionate to end their pains. By the way, my opinion was in favor of ending Terri Schiavo's life support.

[stelok]

So many horrible people on this forum...
I think Africa as a whole is doing pretty well despite it's troubles. You only hear bad news coming out of africa, but that's not because nothing else happens it's just what the rest of the world focuses on. Europe has dictators, war, and disease and somehow that doesn't count?
I often wonder what could the african diaspora could do to help african...

Only Eastern Europe, especially Serbia and Kosovo has dictators, war, poverty and disease, thanks to 50 years of commie oppression. It proved communism will never work.
Western Europeans hasn't had a war with each other since WWII. Civil War in Portugal during 1970's is only an internal conflict and doesn't count. If Wesern Europeans had a war today, it was always with a country that isn't Western European.

Western Europe hasn't had a dictator since the Spaniard Franco died.

Western Europe in general is a stable democracy with a strong economy.

[stelok]

So many horrible people on this forum...
I think Africa as a whole is doing pretty well despite it's troubles. You only hear bad news coming out of africa, but that's not because nothing else happens it's just what the rest of the world focuses on. Europe has dictators, war, and disease and somehow that doesn't count?
I often wonder what could the african diaspora could do to help african...

Only Eastern Europe, especially Serbia and Kosovo has dictators, war, poverty and disease, thanks to 50 years of commie oppression. It proved communism will never work.
Western Europeans hasn't had a war with each other since WWII. Civil War in Portugal during 1970's is only an internal conflict and doesn't count. If Wesern Europeans had a war today, it was always with a country that isn't Western European.

Western Europe hasn't had a dictator since the Spaniard Franco died.

Western Europe in general is a stable democracy with a strong economy.

[Mac Danny]

Here is my uneducated 2 cents, but I speak from the gut. The gut filled with Truth.

The only way the US gets involve in anything any more is because that country has something we want and another superpower (China, Russia, Etc) isn't involved in.

Moral responsibility doesn't exist in the halls of power any more, I don't really know if it ever has.

IMO US foreign policy has been for the last 8 years, "what can I get in exchange for my help." and "OOH Shiny! I WANT"

[Libaax]

Stelok is ****** genius comparing western europe to Africa.

There are countries in africa who are rich as hell,stable. But no people like you focus only on the negative part.

Egypt makes more than film industry in hollywood yearly on the tourism to Pyramids.

[Matt Algren]

I know it sounds inhumane, but you feed the hungry people who can't still even feed themselves so they can live one more day of misery?
To prolong their misery or to end their misery....which is more inhumane? Well, as a supporter of euthanasia, I feel it is more compassionate to end their pains.
That's one of the dumbest and most offensive things I've read today. It's early, but still... That's just fucked up.

By the way, my opinion was in favor of ending Terri Schiavo's life support.
Yeah, so was I. What does that have to do with your insane plan of killing off all the people of Africa?

[Mac Danny]

Yeah, so was I. What does that have to do with your insane plan of killing off all the people of Africa?


Hey.. I have the final solution! Why kill them when they can be useful as guinea pigs for medical experiments or doing the kinds of labor people don't want to do... OH wait..

His logic is flawed and sad. I say we take steps to make sure he doesn't breed ad save the world from his misery.

[Lone Ranger]

I'm still recovering from the insanity of stelhok's statements.

Whether or not you support the Schiavo death - I do not see how it is remotely comparable to the fate of an entire continent.

In one case, a court rule that for all intents and purposes, the person was already dead and that since she couldn't make a decision for herself - pulling the plug was the correct thing to do.

What you are proposing is that some organization is put in charge of walking from city to city, village to village, throughout Africa and saying "It looks like you'll have a relatively challenging life. We understand that you still want to live and contribute to the world and that you love you family very much - but trust us, it's better this way".

And then either gunning them down or distributing Kool Aid?

Crazy talk and terrible logic are a bad combination.

[yollyP.]

Too much has been said. Why not start a little prayer (whatever beliefs or no beliefs at all) as long as the intent is good, this I know is the greatest way to start helping the needy...by the way, it should be coupled with action. Prayer or intentions without action is like giving food without the food itself - just a picture I may say:frown:

[Mac Danny]

I'm still recovering from the insanity of stelhok's statements.

Whether or not you support the Schiavo death - I do not see how it is remotely comparable to the fate of an entire continent.

In one case, a court rule that for all intents and purposes, the person was already dead and that since she couldn't make a decision for herself - pulling the plug was the correct thing to do.

What you are proposing is that some organization is put in charge of walking from city to city, village to village, throughout Africa and saying "It looks like you'll have a relatively challenging life. We understand that you still want to live and contribute to the world and that you love you family very much - but trust us, it's better this way".

And then either gunning them down or distributing Kool Aid?

Crazy talk and terrible logic are a bad combination.


I think the Janjaweed is already on top of this one.

[stelok]

I apologize deeply for causing a huge misunderstanding. I am never serious about all the talk of genocide. As a matter of fact, I am totally against genocide. I only wrote those terrible thoughts in this thread when I was in a very depressed and pessimistic mood today. What a terrible person I am, for letting my pessimism influence my morals.

I've never been to Africa before. But a long ago I have made friends with an Ethiopian immigrant in the USA. He was such a cool pal.

I am from the Philippines, a third world country. Philippines is maybe different from Africa, but we always have seen so much corruption, greed, poverty and hunger here. Whenever I take a walk through the city, I would usually encounter many poor beggars including kids and of course I give money, an average of twenty pesoes to each beggar, except when I need my money. But even so there are a lot more of those needy people in this city, in other cities and in the countryside. It is completely naive to think you can save everyone. The U.N. can't save everyone in third world countries. That is why I think it may be a noble but hopeless cause. But judging by their smiles, I knew many of them really love life no matter how hard it is. but not all of them. 12 years ago, I saw some apparently half-dead homeless guy crawling on the street with such a sad face. as we drove past him on our way to home. But I was just a kid and I don't know how to help somebody I don't know. Besides the driver wouldn't help either. I wondered if the homeless guy loved life as well.

[Augusto]

Well, aside from your sarcastic comments, I'm sure it is the fault of their inept governments, but what if they can't help themselves? God helps those who help themselves. It's better to teach them how to fish so they would live a lifetime than feed them fish so they live a day.

.

Don't use God here, because by that logic, Jesus would had jumped out of the cross and walk way.

[SOGG]

Dude, if you have a driver in the Philippines, you can clearly afford a map and maybe an Atlas. Africa is not a country.

[OverMaster]

Every time the US refuses to gets involved with the affairs of other nations, the rest of the world calls us "callous" hates us for it.

Every time we do get involved, the rest of the world says we are "Interfering" and hates us for it.

I say we might as well stay home and save our money

Holy gross overstatements, Batman.

[OverMaster]

Well, aside from your sarcastic comments, I'm sure it is the fault of their inept governments, but what if they can't help themselves? God helps those who help themselves. It's better to teach them how to fish so they would live a lifetime than feed them fish so they live a day.


Have you ever tried to overthrow a dictatorial government? Do you think it's as easy as to just sit back at home playing your Wii while people across the ocean barely has enough to eat? And even supposing they do it, building an efficient government from scratch afterwards is nearly impossible. Welcome to the real world.

Also, *you* are the one saying Ra's al Ghul is right, and you call *me* sarcastic?

[OverMaster]

What you are proposing is that some organization is put in charge of walking from city to city, village to village, throughout Africa and saying "It looks like you'll have a relatively challenging life. We understand that you still want to live and contribute to the world and that you love you family very much - but trust us, it's better this way".

And then either gunning them down or distributing Kool Aid?

Crazy talk and terrible logic are a bad combination.

I say we just send Hulk's villainess Mercy down there and let her take care.

[Gumbo Maximillian]

Don't know if its true but one of the statements I've seen before when people post reasons why you should go vegan is that the grain used to feed animals in the UK alone would be enough to feed everybody on the planet.

And thats just one area of the planet with that level of potential resources there.

The sad thing isn't that there are problems all over the world, people dying, people not having resources to better their lives etc....

The sad thing is there are a ridiculous amount of resources, food, etc....and people still don't fix or care about the problems.

Its kind of like in the US how 2% of the population owns 60% of the wealth.

There is literally no reason for poverty to exist if people wanted it to end, no reason anybody should have to go without or be brutalized over medical bills etc....

The world is a sad cruel place, not because it has to be....but because people are some fucked up pieces of trash when it comes down to it.

[StoneGold]

Here is my uneducated 2 cents, but I speak from the gut. The gut filled with Truth.

The only way the US gets involve in anything any more is because that country has something we want and another superpower (China, Russia, Etc) isn't involved in.

Moral responsibility doesn't exist in the halls of power any more, I don't really know if it ever has.

IMO US foreign policy has been for the last 8 years, "what can I get in exchange for my help." and "OOH Shiny! I WANT"

Not so much during the Clinton years. Unless you can tell me what the strategic purposes of Sarajevo and Somalia were.


But outside of those two, I'll grant you. And you can probably take out Sarajevo, as that involved white people.

[SOGG]

Have you ever tried to overthrow a dictatorial government? Do you think it's as easy as to just sit back at home playing your Wii while people across the ocean barely has enough to eat? And even supposing they do it, building an efficient government from scratch afterwards is nearly impossible. Welcome to the real world.

Also, *you* are the one saying Ra's al Ghul is right, and you call *me* sarcastic?

We actually did -- in 1986. But I'm betting that this guy's too young to remember that. This is why it irritates me when I hear my countrymen speak like this. Espescially the young'uns who have never been teargassed or water cannon'd.

[SOGG]

Don't know if its true but one of the statements I've seen before when people post reasons why you should go vegan is that the grain used to feed animals in the UK alone would be enough to feed everybody on the planet.

And thats just one area of the planet with that level of potential resources there.

The sad thing isn't that there are problems all over the world, people dying, people not having resources to better their lives etc....

The sad thing is there are a ridiculous amount of resources, food, etc....and people still don't fix or care about the problems.

Its kind of like in the US how 2% of the population owns 60% of the wealth.

There is literally no reason for poverty to exist if people wanted it to end, no reason anybody should have to go without or be brutalized over medical bills etc....

The world is a sad cruel place, not because it has to be....but because people are some fucked up pieces of trash when it comes down to it.

This I agree with -- except the veganism. There is enough grain to feed everyone in the world right now -- even with meat eaters. The problem is unsustainable practices and -- as you allude to -- there are people who benefit from there being poverty.

Think.... subsidies and why there is so much arable land that isn't being tilled.

[Augusto]

I say we just send Hulk's villainess Mercy down there and let her take care.

World War Hulk 2: Smashing Africa.

[RolandJP]

I understand why Middle East particularly Israel, Iraq and Afghanistan get much more attention than the Africa. We often had recent discussions about the turmoil in Middle East because it affects the interests of the U.S.A

But there are recent violent crises in many african nations like Zimbabwe, Madagascar, etc. I think the media will often ignore it because the Africa's problems has no effect on the world affairs like Europe used to in 2 World Wars or Middle East currently does.


There is HIV/AIDS, other diseases, dictatorship, inter-country wars, civil wars, election violence, famine, poverty, corruption, a high crime rate and lack of democracy in any African nation, especially the post-Apartheid South Africa. More Africans have died of AIDS than the people in non-African nations.

I have already thought that Africa was a lost and hopeless cause that the U.N. shouldn't waste their international funds and assistance trying to help people stave off malnutrition and disease, as long as the incompetent, corrupt, selfish and anti-democratic leaders are still in power.

Well, I'm beginning to see Ra's Al Ghul may have been right.

do you suppose the President Obama, would bother invading sovereign African nations in order to free them from the dictators as Bush did in Iraq and Afghanistan?



I am not overlooking that also South America and some Asian nations has military juntas, poverty and corruption

When One considers the history of Africa, statements like yours can be seen as ignorant.


Western Civilization was built off of the natural resources and the peoples of Africa. Now that Africa is all but depleted these same superpowers look back at the nation with contempt.

Like a robber that has broken into a home, stole everything of value and enslaved its inhabitants. What else would you expect the robber to say? "The house is useless."

China doesnt think so.
Japan doesnt think so.
Egyptians in the Sudan do not think so?


In the future, with new oil deposits discovered, as well the need for trees and lumber, Africa will dominate the world's consciouse once again. Till then, let Aids destroy the people, supply rebel with weapons, and destabilize--hopefully they will kill each other off, so that the right people can rule, yes??


PATHETIC!!!!

[mgs]

Africa is not a country.
isn't that what Republican Palin thought too?

[Omega Alpha]

Africa is not a country.

Heh? I thought the countries of the world were:

Good Ol' US of A
Latin America
Africa
Europe
Russia
Middle East
China
Japan
Asia
Australia

Have I missed something?:confused:

[Libaax]

When One considers the history of Africa, statements like yours can be seen as ignorant.


Western Civilization was built off of the natural resources and the peoples of Africa. Now that Africa is all but depleted these same superpowers look back at the nation with contempt.

Like a robber that has broken into a home, stole everything of value and enslaved its inhabitants. What else would you expect the robber to say? "The house is useless."

China doesnt think so.
Japan doesnt think so.
Egyptians in the Sudan do not think so?


In the future, with new oil deposits discovered, as well the need for trees and lumber, Africa will dominate the world's consciouse once again. Till then, let Aids destroy the people, supply rebel with weapons, and destabilize--hopefully they will kill each other off, so that the right people can rule, yes??


PATHETIC!!!!

Can be seen as ignorant ? Thats putting it way too mildly.

People talking like that make me angry. I dont care if you are from another third world country. That makes it even more ignorant !!!

Like you say colonialism wasnt the africans fault. We didnt say to the europeans please come and destroy us,take everything.

[Mac Danny]

Not so much during the Clinton years. Unless you can tell me what the strategic purposes of Sarajevo and Somalia were.


But outside of those two, I'll grant you. And you can probably take out Sarajevo, as that involved white people.

and filled the important #2 criteria. Don't piss off CHINA oe RUSSIA!

[OverMaster]

Heh? I thought the countries of the world were:

Good Ol' US of A
Latin America
Africa
Europe
Russia
Middle East
China
Japan
Asia
Australia

Have I missed something?:confused:

You missed Atlantis, you fool!

[chaosakita]

I've been to Africa...8 hours in Morocco was pretty fun. And I want to go to Mauritius too, which is the richest country in Africa...and incidentally, is mostly made up of Indians.

Also guys, when was the last pre-colonial time that sub-Saharan Africa had a united government anywhere the size of any country in Western Europe? Just curious.


Probably Toto's greatest track.

OLIVIA's cover of it was pretty good; everyone should go listen to it.


As a happy liberal, I'll answer that one for you.

We are sharing enough, when nobody is starving, everybody has clean water and all the kids are vacinated.

Everywhere.

In the meantime our soft and pleasent lives are at least to some degree built up on the suffering of others.

How much are you sharing?


The average american citizen or european eats a lot more than he needs. Obesity its becoming epidemic and public health concern in western world. Meanwhile there's people dying in starvation.

Heh, mostly among lower income people. OMG CLASSISM!!!


In the future, with new oil deposits discovered, as well the need for trees and lumber, Africa will dominate the world's consciouse once again. Till then, let Aids destroy the people, supply rebel with weapons, and destabilize--hopefully they will kill each other off, so that the right people can rule, yes??

How many of the countries in African have proven oil reserves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_proven_reserves)?

Oh, and how much have you tried to help this situation?

[Kid Kamikaze10]

How many of the countries in African have proven oil reserves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_proven_reserves)?


Around twenty from your said list.

Three of them are above the US: Algeria, Libya, and my lovely country, Nigeria.


Man... This thread is showing quite a bit of ignorance...


If only Nigeria hadn't gotten put into military rule for all those years... These discussions would be much different. (instead of being a budding Democratic nation, it might have been more than that)

[chaosakita]

Around twenty from your said list.

Three of them are above the US: Algeria, Libya, and my lovely country, Nigeria.


Man... This thread is showing quite a bit of ignorance...


If only Nigeria hadn't gotten put into military rule for all those years... These discussions would be much different. (instead of being a budding Democratic nation, it might have been more than that)

Algeria and Libya are are Saharan countries though.

Nigeria has a lot of oil, but obviously, that wealth has not been equally distributed. Who is to blame for that?

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Algeria and Libya are are Saharan countries though.

Nigeria has a lot of oil, but obviously, that wealth has not been equally distributed. Who is to blame for that?

Greedy businessmen and some corrupt politicians...

Let's not act like the wealth is being "equally distributed".... Well, anywhere.

Especially not the US, among other first-world countries.


Same could be said about greedy businessmen and corrupt politicians as well.

[chaosakita]

Greedy businessmen and some corrupt politicians...

Let's not act like the wealth is being "equally distributed".... Well, anywhere.

Especially not the US, among other first-world countries.


Same could be said about greedy businessmen and corrupt politicians as well.

Well if those are the same everywhere, since Nigeria has so much oil, why isn't it like the UAE or Qatar or something?

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Well if those are the same everywhere, since Nigeria has so much oil, why isn't it like the UAE or Qatar or something?

Ever hear of the Biafra War, and it's aftereffects?


That's why. Military juntas ruined the nation for almost fourty years. Nigeria's rebirth started in 99, and it's quickly becoming a better nation.

On a side note, Abuja is one of the most beautiful cities in Africa, IMO.

[Aaron Kashtan]

Also guys, when was the last pre-colonial time that sub-Saharan Africa had a united government anywhere the size of any country in Western Europe? Just curious.

I'm not sure why you ask, but...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songhai_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Ethiopia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bambara_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kongo_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulu_Kingdom

[chaosakita]

Ever hear of the Biafra War, and it's aftereffects?

Seems to have been caused by cultural conflicts. Or is there more to that?


That's why. Military juntas ruined the nation for almost fourty years. Nigeria's rebirth started in 99, and it's quickly becoming a better nation.


Um, like this (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=68&art_id=nw20070424223012889C546506)?


On a side note, Abuja is one of the most beautiful cities in Africa, IMO.

Compared to what?


I'm not sure why you ask, but...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songhai_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Ethiopia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bambara_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kongo_Empire

Hmm...

That's interesting. I can see that lack of military power was one of the reasons for colonization.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Seems to have been caused by cultural conflicts. Or is there more to that?

Internal greed from sectional interests
External greed from the first-world
Cultural conflicts



Um, like this (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=68&art_id=nw20070424223012889C546506)?

Do you want to how bad it was before? Yeah, it still has problems; there's plenty that can be done to improve Nigeria, especially in it's politics, but compared to what it was, there has been a definite improvement.



Compared to what?

Compared to the other African countries I've been to and/or seen. Again, my opinion.

[Pól Rua]

I like the bit with the monkeys.

[StoneGold]

I like the bit with the monkeys.

And don't forget the parts with the savage white men who rule it like kings.

[Aaron Kashtan]

Hmm...

That's interesting. I can see that lack of military power was one of the reasons for colonization.

I think it was not so much lack of military power as lack of industrial technology. The Zulu Kingdom had one of the most highly organized and professional armies of its time.

[Augusto]

It's so good to have african fellows in this thread. First hand opinions are always worthy. :cool:


I'm not sure why you ask, but...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songhai_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Ethiopia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bambara_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kongo_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulu_Kingdom

You forgot Zamunda and its royal family.

http://photos-p.friendster.com/photos/87/70/14560778/7984579158919l.jpg





Originally Posted by Kid Kamikaze10
On a side note, Abuja is one of the most beautiful cities in Africa, IMO.


Compared to what?


Why do you care about that? What's wrong if he thinks Abuja is a beautiful city?

Anybody can say his city its a beautiful place without comparison.

[ottoscorzato]

What do I think of Africa?

I'm a fan. Lots of lions. I like lions.

[Crowforge]

No, you think you like lions. There are no bars between you and the lions in africa. Well, unless you're in a zoo.

[Paradox]

There is often a nice solid car in the way, though. :biggrin:

[Sean Walsh]

I hear they have outdoor cafes there, where waiters and customers are often mauled by tigers and lions.

At least, that's what Monty Python has led me to believe...

[SOGG]

That's interesting. I can see that lack of military power was one of the reasons for colonization.

Yes. Especially since the Ethiopians, lacking modern equipment , fucking trounced the Italians, who couldn't be arsed to abide by an international treaty (sound familiar). And would have utterly destroyed them again if the Italians didn't get support from all the 'superiour' European nations.

[SOGG]

Greedy businessmen and some corrupt politicians...

Let's not act like the wealth is being "equally distributed".... Well, anywhere.

Especially not the US, among other first-world countries.


Same could be said about greedy businessmen and corrupt politicians as well.

Word that. Let's examine Gini Index by Country, shall we?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

The likely suspects lead the pack: Japan, Denmark, etc, which appear to be alien civilisations that have done away with income inequality. But.... are those Ethiopia, Morocco and Ghana ... actually displaying a greater wealth distribution than the US? (EU Data not available)
Oh wow. Is that

[Titan76]

Yes. Especially since the Ethiopians, lacking modern equipment , fucking trounced the Italians, who couldn't be arsed to abide by an international treaty (sound familiar). And would have utterly destroyed them again if the Italians didn't get support from all the 'superiour' European nations.
There's also the fact that the Europeans did there best to pit the tribes against each other in a Civil War way and then would come in, take over after each side beat the crap out of the other side.

[Nabhori]

Before I add my input please stop calling it 'Africa'. Africa is not a country its a continent, where not all people are black, speak the same language, have the same weather, animals, trees, vegetation, culture, military etc.

With that said, I disagree that Africa (as a continent) is a lost cause. Too much (mostly 90%) of the good parts of African nations is never shown and when it is, its "Lions, Tigers and Bears.." in other words feeding the stereotype. Yes there are issues and yes I agree, nations are like businesses, they will mostly only get involved where thier interest is involved. We here about Zimbabwe all the time because it affects our nation (G.Britain) but nothing about other places. We go on about WW2 like every nation in the world fought, meanwhile around DR.Congo there is about 6 nations involved in problems which will equate t a WW, yet less and less light is shed.

Botttom line, think free and outside the box. "Doveryai no Proveryai" - it's russion Google it!

[chaosakita]

Yes. Especially since the Ethiopians, lacking modern equipment , fucking trounced the Italians, who couldn't be arsed to abide by an international treaty (sound familiar). And would have utterly destroyed them again if the Italians didn't get support from all the 'superiour' European nations.

All right then.

Well, too bad none of that military power helped their economy.


The likely suspects lead the pack: Japan, Denmark, etc, which appear to be alien civilisations that have done away with income inequality.

Japan is a pretty homogenous society though.


Before I add my input please stop calling it 'Africa'. Africa is not a country its a continent, where not all people are black, speak the same language, have the same weather, animals, trees, vegetation, culture, military etc.

So it wouldn't be legitimate if I decided to ask people "What do you think of North America?"


Botttom line, think free and outside the box. "Doveryai no Proveryai" - it's russion Google it!

Wow, way to be not pretentious there!


Are you saying we must blame Nelson Mandela?

Mandela was great, but I can't say the same for the rest of the leaders.

[Nabhori]

Chaosakita - No it's not prententious, you percieve the way you do. The question is why did you take it that way, hmmm think you should check yourself.

"So it wouldn't be legitimate if I decided to ask people "What do you think of North America?" "

It's hard to speak to people who can't things in context, if you misunderstand that, that's unfortunate.

PS: There are better ways to ask for an explanation or put a suggestion forward than the way you did.

[chaosakita]

Chaosakita - No it's not prententious, you percieve the way you do. The question is why did you take it that way, hmmm think you should check yourself.

You went to tell people to go look up something while it has a applicable English translation.


It's hard to speak to people who can't things in context, if you misunderstand that, that's unfortunate.

Way to be not be a hypocrite.


PS: There are better ways to ask for an explanation or put a suggestion forward than the way you did.

Those are no fun though D:

PS: There are better ways to address people people then the way you did. :D