BATMAN #686 *Spoilers*

[VeesFistOfDeath]

its on the DC website, but not mentioned on CBR.

[F1uke]

Yes, 686 came out today

[Blue Blazes]

yes, 3 covers too. 2 direct edition variants plus sketch variant.

[HopeLantern]

I can't get off work fast enough today... 3... more... hours....

[F1uke]

Well only 5 more weeks until part two :'-(

[B. Kuwanger]

SPOILER


Grant Morrison passed the jay to the left


END SPOILER

[Calvin Government]

Indeed it did come out.

And it was awesome.

I really enjoyed 'The Gentlemen's Gentleman's Tale' especially. Great reimagining.

[spidervenom]

I bet it's omega sanction. Just calling it.

[ultramandingo]

...........they gotta bring back the jokermobile - plus The Penny Plunderer ( !!!! )

[SpideyZERO]

I really like this issue. Very fun, and great 'retelling' of Batman's tale, and how he died

The art is beautiful

[40footwolf]

**SPOILERS**







It's pretty interesting that Batman is dying once for each "age" he existed in: We see the death of Golden Age Batman and Silver Age Batman in this issue; I'll bet next we see death of Bronze and Modern Batman in the next.

That said, something about it didn't seem quite...there. It left me hanging, and not in the positive way. I'll have faith that Part 2 will bring everything to a satisfying close.

[F1uke]

I thought this was a great issue, telling very different Batman stories from different point of views. I'm excited for the second part, if only it was sooner. I want to know who Batman was talking to throughout this.

[Retro315]

Yes, Batman is being walked through witnessing his own death, in different "incarnations" of the character.

Neil Gaiman is writing this ...

Anyone want to take odds that the female ghostly silhouette watching the "wake" along with the very obviously "Batman's" silhouette is Death of the Endless?

She seems nice enough ...

[noh-varr]

It was pretty good. But this was like a retelling of the old Many Deathes of Batman story. Was expecting something else. The car parking part was very funny though.

[Mac]

Anyone want to take odds that the female ghostly silhouette watching the "wake" along with the very obviously "Batman's" silhouette is Death of the Endless?

She seems nice enough ...

Death having a cameo in Batman would be great, IMO, but probably a bit too much.
I'm thinking it's the gypsy looking girl from the "Last Days of Gotham" arc...or Death..

[Vidocq]

Exelent issue, I was honestly sad when I reached the final page knowing that part 2 is delayed, hell even if it wasn't. The wait is going to kill me.

I enjoyed Selina's tale the most, particulary the ending, but Alfred's had a clever twist.

[Retro315]

Narrator Bruce asks early in the story "Who are you?" but gets a lot of "shushs" and "just wait" or "just watch" comments.

We get to the very last page, and Bruce asks if he's dead. She says "not yet". Bruce asks if she's Death. Response is "I don't think Death is a person, Bruce".

Who ever it is definitely seems to fit the role of a spirit guide. It's the typical "ghost of Christmas" style situation. Even more typical of TV sitcoms, where a spirit or an angel appears and shows you "what would your life be like without this person" or "what would their lives be like without you".

And I think the idea of a human trapped in an endless cycle of deaths, with his very soul forced to watch it like a bad TV clip show is appealing, especially if Death, who is supposed to be along for the "final" ride, is kind of stuck guiding him through it.

So if it actually ties into the Omega Sanction, and Gaiman is actually going to show Batman living out the progressively stranger lives, and because of that Gaiman's Death is along for the ride, that could provide DC with a hell of a way for Batman's journey from "charred husk at Darkseid's feet" to "back on Earth, but in the caveman days".

Who knows, maybe Death doesn't really appreciate dark gods playing with the rules of death.

However, if it doesn't jive with Morrison's final fate of Batman, that's cool too. We'll see, we'll see.

[DF2506]

Its been awhile since I've read a DC book and especially Batman. I heard that this book was coming out today though and thought I should get it. I believed it would be a "can't miss".

And....I was totally right!

Wow. That has to be the best comic I've read this year (so far).

Neil Gaiman's writing was excellent. I liked his dialogue and his use of these little stories to show different era's of Batman's career. I especially liked the second story, but the first one was really good too!

As for Andy Kubert, wow, that guy just gets better and better. His art is this issue is just as great as Neil's writing, maybe even more so. All of the characters look great.

I also really liked the sketch book at the end of the issue.

The only real complaint I have: the next issue isn't coming out till March?! Wha?! Really? Is this true?

I really wanted to read the next part like...next week or something. lol.

Oh well, I guess they say good things come to those who wait. lol. I'll definitly have my comic guy hold me a copy of Part 2 when it comes out!

DF2506
" Too bad Neil & Andy can't be on one of the Bat titles full time. Even if the title was late all the time it would be worth waiting for, imo."

[Spiffy]

Now THAT is what a "metafictional" approach should be like. Gaiman GETS putting it all in a mythic context. Versus the nonsense we got out of Morrison.

Loved, loved, loved every word of it. Every panel. Every detail in every panel.

[esc0]

Yes, Batman is being walked through witnessing his own death, in different "incarnations" of the character.

Neil Gaiman is writing this ...

Anyone want to take odds that the female ghostly silhouette watching the "wake" along with the very obviously "Batman's" silhouette is Death of the Endless?

She seems nice enough ...

That would be great if thats the case :)

[Duy]

Now THAT is what a "metafictional" approach should be like. Gaiman GETS putting it all in a mythic context. Versus the nonsense we got out of Morrison.

Loved, loved, loved every word of it. Every panel. Every detail in every panel.

Hey, look, a high concept, with proper pacing and storytelling structure. What?

Yes, Batman is being walked through witnessing his own death, in different "incarnations" of the character.

Neil Gaiman is writing this ...

Anyone want to take odds that the female ghostly silhouette watching the "wake" along with the very obviously "Batman's" silhouette is Death of the Endless?

She seems nice enough ...

Didi would be too predictable, but then, anyone I can think of other than Kathy Kane would be, too.

[Matt Linton]

This is easily a 9 out of 10 for me. My one caveat (and it's not a complaint) is that you have to completely ignore the idea of continuity and simply read this as a standalone Batman story or wrap your head around the idea that every Batman story is "real".

Or, as Alan Moore put it years ago - "This is an Imaginary Story... Aren't they all?"

As for the art, this might be the best work Andy Kubert's ever done. He manages to capture the various incarnations of different characters without simply imitating specific artists.

Gaiman conveys a tense, dream-like mood throughout the story while also managing to tell a love story in one part and a dark, psychological thriller in another.

It does feel like part one of two, but given that I can't wait to read the last part, I don't think that's a bad thing at all.

[Duy]

Two-Face's car is genius.

[Spiffy]

This is easily a 9 out of 10 for me. My one caveat (and it's not a complaint) is that you have to completely ignore the idea of continuity and simply read this as a standalone Batman story or wrap your head around the idea that every Batman story is "real".

Or, as Alan Moore put it years ago - "This is an Imaginary Story... Aren't they all?"

As for the art, this might be the best work Andy Kubert's ever done. He manages to capture the various incarnations of different characters without simply imitating specific artists.

Gaiman conveys a tense, dream-like mood throughout the story while also managing to tell a love story in one part and a dark, psychological thriller in another.

It does feel like part one of two, but given that I can't wait to read the last part, I don't think that's a bad thing at all.
Gaiman never comes right out and says "this is a fantasy", but it becomes obvious the moment Selina encounters Joe Chill, and in case anyone misses that a hundred times after that.

It doesn't play these little games that Morrison's work does where you are supposed to guess what's real and what isn't.

As for the art? I agree. This is the best work Kubert has ever done. This is stunning. Perfect.

What really gets me, what worked SO well, was that it had a LOT of emotion in it, but it wasn't cheap or crass emotion. Comparing this with Morrison's cold approach is like basking in the tropical sun after a few months spent in the Arctic circle.

[pariah-1972]

Now THAT is what a "metafictional" approach should be like. Gaiman GETS putting it all in a mythic context. Versus the nonsense we got out of Morrison.

Loved, loved, loved every word of it. Every panel. Every detail in every panel.I completely agree with this statement 100% .

It's too bad Gaimans only on two issues but maybe they can offer to bring him back for a GN or something later.

[Arksy]

I wish Gaiman would write a hundred issues of batman. I really do. This is superb in every sense of the world.

[nepenthes]

I LOVED the cars, the the kid freaking out about Joker, all the mourners arriving one by one :biggrin:. I think in one panel Joker and Harley are even drawn in TAS style.

Is that Oliver Queen from DKR I see? ha ha

I have to say it got a bit boring in the middle of Catwomans tale though, but overall this is as good as I was expecting it to be and with an unexpected twist too. Although we should have seen the puzzle coming, alot of Gaimans work is essentially stories about stories. I didn't make the connect with the Omega Sanction. Interesting

The original "Who Killed Batman" story had tales spun by Catwoman, Riddler, Joker and Luthor. I can't wait to see Jokers take, would also love to see something from Grayson too. It bothers me part 2 is five weeks away.

The Pearl Harbour comment is intruiging. although it makes sense in terms of publishing history

What really gets me, what worked SO well, was that it had a LOT of emotion in it, but it wasn't cheap or crass emotion. Comparing this with Morrison's cold approach is like basking in the tropical sun after a few months spent in the Arctic circle.

Agreed :smile:

[im399unot]

Yes, Batman is being walked through witnessing his own death, in different "incarnations" of the character.

Neil Gaiman is writing this ...

Anyone want to take odds that the female ghostly silhouette watching the "wake" along with the very obviously "Batman's" silhouette is Death of the Endless?

She seems nice enough ...


It has to be Death, I agree Sir.

[nepenthes]

oh noes! I just went to re-read my issue....and realized i left it on the bench where i was eating sushi at the bus stop :frown:. i hope someone appreciates it. goddamn sushi

[Jkid099]

Great issue. I think Gaiman is writing it so it can be both read from a "mythic, looking at the loss of the Dark Knight in a honorable way" and "Bruce experiencing the Omega Sanction." He probably won't have it explicitly said that it's the Sanction, however. Either way, entertaining.

[mofo]

it was.....alright
art was good
story was....a little bizarre
but its got my interest piqued
definitely gonna pick up the next issue

and i support the other poster's thought of having gaiman on a 100 issues of Batman....should be very different

[Dave Hackett]

I was really underwhelmed by this one. I am a huge Gaiman fan, but this just didn't seem up to snuff, mostly because it plays like a rehash of the Sandman arcs "World's End" and the "Wake". The Alfred story was very interesting, but the Catwoman one didn't work for me. I also think Andy Kubert was a bad choice for artist. Each character and story are supposed to reflect a different Batman era, but Kubert really fails to convey that well as they all still look like Kubert characters. They should have gone with a different artist for each segment or got someone like Williams III who really can switch styles up.

Maybe my expectations were too high.

Here's hoping the second issue is better.

[Seraku]

I liked it because it felt like a bit of a rehash of Sandman, which is never a bad thing.

[Karl O'Neill]

I'll have to read this issue a few more times. it was a great issue, just a tad bit mindblowing in a good sort of way.

I found morrison's work to be easier to understand, but i get that this is a silver age what if story.

Kubert knocked the art out of the park

[Seraku]

so who else thinks this might be in the dreaming?

I mean the joker is obviously from the DCAU, we get Golden Age Catwoman, damian is there, Babs is in a wheelchair, I think I see some people from DKR.

[ducklord]

I haven't read this yet, since I only get to pick up comics every other week these days, but, I'll chip in my 2 bits about Bruce's mysterious guide...

Unless Bruce Wayne is really and truly capital-D DEAD, I kinda doubt Gaiman's gonna use Death of the Endless here. I remember back when Superman died, someone wanted to have Death featured in a funeral procession, so they asked Gaiman for permission. He's reported to have asked "Is he really dead? No? Then she's not there."

Now, he could have softened his opinion over the years, or maybe she'll be there representing the "death of a particular perspective" or some such artsy-fartsy twaddle, but I tend to think it's much more likely that his guide is going to be someone a bit more important to him, like, say, his MOM.

Mike

[Duy]

I haven't read this yet, since I only get to pick up comics every other week these days, but, I'll chip in my 2 bits about Bruce's mysterious guide...

Unless Bruce Wayne is really and truly capital-D DEAD, I kinda doubt Gaiman's gonna use Death of the Endless here. I remember back when Superman died, someone wanted to have Death featured in a funeral procession, so they asked Gaiman for permission. He's reported to have asked "Is he really dead? No? Then she's not there."

Now, he could have softened his opinion over the years, or maybe she'll be there representing the "death of a particular perspective" or some such artsy-fartsy twaddle, but I tend to think it's much more likely that his guide is going to be someone a bit more important to him, like, say, his MOM.

Mike
Don't think it's Death, since they already teased "I don't think Death is a person." If it were Didi, she'd come right out and say it.

The only one I want it to be is Kathy Kane. She's the only one whom I think would be a nice surprise, and would really fit in with the theme of different versions of Batman coexisting.

[Kiryu]

Two-Faces scene was probably one of my favorite scenes with him in a comic. I never felt the comic version lived up to the Greatness of The Animated Series.

[Retro315]

I haven't read this yet, since I only get to pick up comics every other week these days, but, I'll chip in my 2 bits about Bruce's mysterious guide...

Unless Bruce Wayne is really and truly capital-D DEAD, I kinda doubt Gaiman's gonna use Death of the Endless here. I remember back when Superman died, someone wanted to have Death featured in a funeral procession, so they asked Gaiman for permission. He's reported to have asked "Is he really dead? No? Then she's not there."

Now, he could have softened his opinion over the years, or maybe she'll be there representing the "death of a particular perspective" or some such artsy-fartsy twaddle, but I tend to think it's much more likely that his guide is going to be someone a bit more important to him, like, say, his MOM.

Mike

I don't know ... Batman's a very zen guy, and he's also very accessible from a goth standpoint. He's seen the "empty blackness" through those Thogal "near death" experiences, he's seen all sorts of things ...

Part of his deep, deep understandings of himself and life/death may grant him a little "special access" in that regard ...

What I'm saying is that if ANYBODY in the mainstream DCU gets to interact with Death, it'd be Batman.

[Greg Anderson]

Two-Faces scene was probably one of my favorite scenes with him in a comic. I never felt the comic version lived up to the Greatness of The Animated Series.

Which comic version have you been reading!? :confused:

[jerrymcl89]

I don't know ... Batman's a very zen guy, and he's also very accessible from a goth standpoint. He's seen the "empty blackness" through those Thogal "near death" experiences, he's seen all sorts of things ...

Part of his deep, deep understandings of himself and life/death may grant him a little "special access" in that regard ...

What I'm saying is that if ANYBODY in the mainstream DCU gets to interact with Death, it'd be Batman.

Death has interacted with characters who didn't die before, most recently her appearance in "Madame Xanadu". I think Gaiman mostly is just resistant to her being used by other writers.

I think it's not supposed to be her, based on the "I don't think Death is a person" line. I think Gaiman put that in because he figured that would be who everyone thought it was. I don't have any good guesses as to who it actually is, though.

[The Lucky One]

Two-Face's car is genius.

All the little details were genius, really. Kirk Langstrom being told he can sit on the left or the right (allies vs. villains) was terrific. And that billboard on the first page that managed to be both an homage to Bill Finger and a dirty joke -- "If you can't type it, finger it!" -- nice. :biggrin:

So, anyone want to lay odds on how the Joker is going to kill the kid next issue and make it hilarious?

-D

[The Lucky One]

I found morrison's work to be easier to understand

This is the first time that sentence has been uttered in the history of comics. :wink:

-D

[longshot3]

Two-Face's car is genius.

I agree, I loved that car. The piece-of-junk half had me cracking up

[Spiffy]

I found morrison's work to be easier to understand, but i get that this is a silver age what if story.

Really?

I found this infinitely easier to understand. I STILL haven't figured out certain parts of RIP months later, but I think I got everything that was happening in this story the first time through. Well, at least everything I think we were supposed to "get", since the identity of Bruce's spirit guide isn't supposed to be obvious yet. Overall, the setup for this story was very simple, very basic, and it worked.

I mean what else COULD we conclude from a "public" wake for Batman, with Alfred greeting people, Joe Chill guarding the door, TWO Catwomen, the Joker walking in and practically sitting down next to Barbara Gordon, and all of that even before we got into these weird alternate versions of Batman's life and death?

Not that simplicity is always a virtue, but in the hands of someone like Gaiman it is.

[CMBMOOL]

I must say this was a great issue, despite the fact of not truly own a copy. :frown:


Still the stories were interesting and nice nods to the various life times of Batman. :redface:

Even the golden age bit and the Joker bits were worth it. :tongue:

[Trey]

Really good issue, I don't think this is the Omega Sanction as Batman in the comic is actually dead, not living through these events. I don't think Gaiman would use another writer's idea.

Is that Jim Lee's Joker, after Alfred put on the makeup? We have Timm joker and Quinn, Mazzuchilli Year One Batman, DKR Ollie, what else? Is one of the Riddlers, Frank Gorshin Riddler?

[Vidocq]

Really good issue, I don't think this is the Omega Sanction as Batman in the comic is actually dead, not living through these events. I don't think Gaiman would use another writer's idea.

Is that Jim Lee's Joker, after Alfred put on the makeup? We have Timm joker and Quinn, Mazzuchilli Year One Batman, DKR Ollie, what else? Is one of the Riddlers, Frank Gorshin Riddler?

Yeah, the one who approaches Selina is Gorshin's Riddler. Also the Joker with the car was Golden Age Joker as done by Bob Kane.

Also the Red Hood (Joker's Redhood not Jason's) is seen at the begining when Selina enters the room.

[stillanerd]

One thing about Neil Gaiman is that in the vast majority of his work, most of what he writes are stories that are, essentially, about stories. This issue was no different. In a lot of ways, "Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader?" thus far reads very much like an earlier Batman story "A Black and White World" Gaiman did for Batman Black and White #2. In that story, Batman and the Joker take a "time out" from the comic and go "backstage" to discuss the nature of their roles. Here, we get a "funeral" of Batman in which various incarnations of Batman's allies and rogues from various eras in Batman's history, including multiple versions of the same character in some cases, to tell their version of how Batman died, all while the real Batman is looking on with some mysterious spirit guide who, I guess, is Death from the Sandman series.

On one level, for those keeping track of recent continuity, it's very likely this is the result of the Omega Sanction that Darkseid hit Batman with, and that Bruce is seeing variations of his life and death prior to his body landing in the prehistoric past as we saw in the last issue of Final Crisis. But on another level, this is another opportunity for Gaiman to once again show us the nature of story. As Batman observes, one of his deaths is akin to how Robin Hood died, while another is a take on "the Butler did it" cliche in mystery fiction. But as the Batman in "Alfred story" says, even if Batman was all built on a lie, he would still be Batman and would never truly die.

And that's the point. There are so many different versions of the character attending Batman's "funeral" and so many versions of how he "died" because there are so many different Batman stories, just as there are so many different stories and legends about King Arthur, or Robin Hood, or Gilgamesh or any other larger than life heroic figure of legend and myth. And just as legends have variations of an "origin" story, they also have variations of a "death" story. And because of this, legends live on. Batman, even though he may "die" is no different.

This issue, I think, beautifully explores this, with some great nods to earlier eras of Batman for long time fans, with some references newer fans would recognize that, unlike Morrison's RIP, don't get in the way or distract from the story. Not to mention the terrific artwork by Andy Kubert and the touches he brings in. For example, seeing the various guest from Dark Knight Returns version of Oliver Queen, Bruce Timm's Joker, the original Red Hood, Gorshin's Riddler, what I assume is Zorro himself. Likewise the repeated motiff of the villains and their cars, including a very clever take on the "Two-Face mobile." It's another example of how a comic book medium can have the advantage of working hand-in-hand with the story, as these surreal depictions of Gotham (complete with Airships), Crime Alley, the funeral parlor, and the guests serve to emphasize the dream like quality of the story Gaiman is telling. Best of all, even Batman's "death" and "funeral" is a mystery for Batman to solve. Hopefully, the delay to the second part in Detective Comics won't kill the momentum of what is, no doubt, a fitting love letter to the Caped Crusader.

[Duy]

Yeah, the one who approaches Selina is Gorshin's Riddler. Also the Joker with the car was Golden Age Joker as done by Bob Kane.


No, that's 70s Joker, the one with his own series. Kane's Joker wore black.

[VincentClarkson]

If it's not Death, I'll be disappointed.

[Spiffy]

If it's not Death, I'll be disappointed.
I don't think it really has to be Death, at least Death in the sense of it being Gaiman's established character. It could be a more abstract version.

I mean from what I recall, Gaiman's been nothing but annoyed on the few occasions when Death, the character, has been ported over to the DCU. It might be different if he himself were doing it, but I don't think he'd feel compelled to do so.

[Matt Linton]

It's really not Death. One, Death is too obvious for there to be any mystery about it. Two, Gaiman all but has the characters make the point that it's not Death.

If nothing else, the "I don't think Death is a person" line is a clear giveaway, since Death has never been portrayed as being coy about who and what she is.

[Seraku]

Death has never been portrayed as being coy about who and what she is.

indeed. at first I thought maybe Death passed like Morpheus to Daniel, but I figured Gaiman would never do that off panel

[Maestro]

Alfred as the Joker, now that was funny

[Duy]

indeed. at first I thought maybe Death passed like Morpheus to Daniel, but I figured Gaiman would never do that off panel

Death is also the one member of the Endless incapable of doing it.

[Seraku]

Death is also the one member of the Endless incapable of doing it.it's late, so sue me :tongue:

[Mister Mets]

An incredible issue.

Very clever. Gorgeous art. Fascinating twists. And the small moments were excellent (such as the travails of the guy who wanted to watch cars for money.)

Certainly on par with Morrison's best.

[Choppa]

oh noes! I just went to re-read my issue....and realized i left it on the bench where i was eating sushi at the bus stop :frown:. i hope someone appreciates it. goddamn sushi

Indeed, sushi has ruined many lives.

[Choppa]

Someone explain this to me. Are these original stories or did they happen in these other eras or something?

[Sean Walsh]

Someone explain this to me. Are these original stories or did they happen in these other eras or something?

It's an almost other-worldly mixture of reality and imagination. Gaiman tends to enjoy that kind of storytelling, and he tends to do well in luring people into enjoying them.

Some have suggested that it might be an effect of Bruce experiencing the Omega Sanction (between when Darkseid zapped him and he died/showed up in the past)

[Red_Knight]

Someone explain this to me. Are these original stories or did they happen in these other eras or something?

These are original stories, and while they did not "really" happen in any era of Batman, each vignette seems to recall a specific era in Batman's history. Catwoman's tale bears a distinctive Golden Age feel in regard to her relationship to Batman, while Alfred's story is at the very least artistically reminiscient of the Silver Age.

As far as I "get" it so far, Gailman is basically "closing the book" on Batman in all the various interpretations he has gone through over the years, while "our" Batman, whose knowledge is restrained to official DCU canon, is watching in confusion.

At least that's how I understand it. Hope that helps!

[F1uke]

There has been a lot of talk that people think that the different retelling of Batman's life by Alfred and Selina so far is each a different life he had to live because of the Omega Sanction.

I personally would like to believe this a stand alone last Batman story, and that him being killed by Darkseid will be left out of it.

What do you think?

[Choppa]

Well what's with all this Omega Sanction stuff? I read FC and SB, but apart from Darkseid saying that Batman won't be able to outrun it, how does everyone know so much about how the Sanction works? Did I miss an issue somewhere?? Was I supopsed to read the Jack Kirby omnibus before reading FC??

[DarKye]

Well what's with all this Omega Sanction stuff? I read FC and SB, but apart from Darkseid saying that Batman won't be able to outrun it, how does everyone know so much about how the Sanction works? Did I miss an issue somewhere?? Was I supopsed to read the Jack Kirby omnibus before reading FC??

The Omega Sanction stuff comes from Seven Soldiers. That's the first time we get to see "Boss Dark Side".

[Jkid099]

Well what's with all this Omega Sanction stuff? I read FC and SB, but apart from Darkseid saying that Batman won't be able to outrun it, how does everyone know so much about how the Sanction works? Did I miss an issue somewhere?? Was I supopsed to read the Jack Kirby omnibus before reading FC??

As indicated before, it comes from Seven Soldiers: Mister Miracle, as well as from some of Jack Kirby's Fourth World stories. The Omega Sanction has been recently defined as "the death that is life." Instead of outright killing a person, it hurls them through reality and forces them to experience a succession of increasingly worse lives / deaths.

Since "Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader?" has Batman narrating in confusion over this wake where his death has been described in different and increasingly bizarre fashions, it has been suggested that this is the result of the Omega Sanction.

[Sean Walsh]

Is that really his first name?

Like, it was mentioned years ago, or is this something new?

According to Neil Gaiman & BATMAN #686, Alfred's dad was named JARVIS Pennyworth.

:wink: :biggrin:

[Choppa]

As indicated before, it comes from Seven Soldiers: Mister Miracle, as well as from some of Jack Kirby's Fourth World stories. The Omega Sanction has been recently defined as "the death that is life." Instead of outright killing a person, it hurls them through reality and forces them to experience a succession of increasingly worse lives / deaths.

Since "Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader?" has Batman narrating in confusion over this wake where his death has been described in different and increasingly bizarre fashions, it has been suggested that this is the result of the Omega Sanction.



So the physical body dies and the conscience transfers elsewhere? What's with the Batman person in FC #7 then?

[IvCNuB4]

At the NYCC, DC said that would be explained "soon" ....

[Choppa]

Is that really his first name?

Like, it was mentioned years ago, or is this something new?

According to Neil Gaiman & BATMAN #686, Alfred's dad was named JARVIS Pennyworth.

:wink: :biggrin:



Wiki says that pre-crisis his origin was simliar to that of the one in issue 686

The Pre-Crisis comics (i.e., comics published by DC Comics between 1938 and 1986) established Alfred as a retired actor and intelligence agent who followed the deathbed wish of his dying father, Jarvis, to carry on the tradition of serving the Wayne family.

[Choppa]

At the NYCC, DC said that would be explained "soon" ....

I'll make sure to hold my breath for that...:rolleyes:

[Captain Jim]

its on the DC website, but not mentioned on CBR.

What the heck is this supposed to mean? :confused:

[VincentClarkson]

If nothing else, the "I don't think Death is a person" line is a clear giveaway, since Death has never been portrayed as being coy about who and what she is.

I disagree. If anything, it just means Death doesn't think of herself as a person.

It's Death.

[Karl O'Neill]

Jarvis pennyworth:biggrin:

is that a sly ref to jarvis from the avengers?

[IamtheRock3]

really good issue

Dont think it death, even though it would be awesome

But death seem like a lady who would be straightforward and say

"Yes I'm Death"

could be some incarnation of death.

[Zombie Uatu]

Loved this issue, need to sit and read it again for all the nuance tomorrow.

Just a thought - is it possible all these people for whom Batman is their life's purpose are gathered not to mourn his passing, but to effect his resurrection, somehow?

[Superbeast]

Death having a cameo in Batman would be great, IMO, but probably a bit too much.
I'm thinking it's the gypsy looking girl from the "Last Days of Gotham" arc...or Death..

They had Daniel the Sandman in JLA, why not Death in Batman?

[Spiffy]

They had Daniel the Sandman in JLA, why not Death in Batman?
Because from what I recall Gaiman has never been all that happy about his characters being borrowed for the mainline DCU. Even if he's the one doing the borrowing, I don't see him going against that stand.

[Duy]

I disagree. If anything, it just means Death doesn't think of herself as a person.

It's Death.
Let's dissect this.

Bruce: Are you Death? (This is Bruce flat out asking if the person he is talking to is the abstract personification of Death.)
Woman: I don't think Death is a person, Bruce. (Since Bruce never once referred to her as a person, and he flat-out asked her if she was Death, I think we can safely say that this woman is saying that she IS a person, and that she's not Death.)
Bruce: Then tell me who you are. Tell me what's going on.
Woman: You're the world's greatest detective, Bruce. Why don't you figure it out? (But of course, if she were Death, Bruce has already figured it out. She says he hasn't, so she's not Death.)

The whole exchange was to diffuse any sort of tease that it was Death of the Endless. The only way she can be Death of the Endless now is if Death of the Endless suddenly became coy and misdirecting, neither of which she's ever been.

If you still insist she's Death of the Endless, when Detective comes out, and she's revealed to be otherwise, you owe me a cookie.

[carabas]

I'm calling it now: It's Desaad in a wig.

Or maybe Talia. Seems like she should be there (even Damian and his grandpa showed up), but I don't see her anywhere.

Of course, who I want ti to be is Sasha Bourdeaux, but I reckon there's not much chance in that, even though she is vaguely deadish at the moment.

[davepaton]

Great great stand alone issue of batman. Would recommend to everyone. Just wish I didnt have to wait 5 weeks for part 2 :(

[Vidocq]

Maybe it's Martha Wayne.

[Chad]

Maybe it's Martha Wayne.

This is what I think as well for several reasons:

1. Joe Chill is present because "I was here at the start of it all. I'm not going to miss the end". If he's here because of his placement in and importance to Batman's history, then Thomas and Martha have to make an appearance.

2. The issue distinguishes between Batman and Bruce Wayne as if they're seperate individuals. Although Batman is in the coffin Alfred tells Kirk Langstrom that "Mr Wayne is unable to be with us tonight". "It was your death...or at least it was Batman's" comment to Bruce's spirit suggests that there is a distinction between the two identities. If those gathered around Batman are important enough to him to account for their presence, then who is important enough to be with Bruce? (who she refers to as 'Bruce' and not 'Batman' or 'Mr Wayne')

3. "Shh". This sounds like a mother sushing her child for speaking up when he should be paying attention. "I don't think Death is a person, Bruce" sounds like the kind of idea a parent would want to impart to her child to shape his view of the world.

4. "Why are we here?" "Why? Bruce, you never left". If Bruce never left Crime Alley (which would help explain why he sounds like an inquisitive eight year old child throughout this story) then neither did his parents. His mom should be right next to him - and she is (if this is Martha Wayne).

So, I want to second Vidocq and say this is Martha Wayne...











...or Poison Ivy.

[Chad]

Alfred's story is at the very least artistically reminiscient of the Silver Age.

I suspect this was just a great coincidence, but I liked how Alfred had to....











SPOILERS













...paint over his moustache to apply his Joker make-up.

[stillanerd]

^^^
Actually, someone made a great point that it was a tongue-in-check nod to the campy Batman TV series and Ceasar Romeo playing the Joker. It was well known behind the scenes that Romeo refused to shave his mustache under any circumstances, so the make-up people had to apply extra grease-paint in order to cover it up. Of course, the whole idea of Alfred actually being the Joker in order to give Bruce a "Moriarty" was absolutely brilliant to begin with.

This is what I think as well for several reasons:

1. Joe Chill is present because "I was here at the start of it all. I'm not going to miss the end". If he's here because of his placement in and importance to Batman's history, then Thomas and Martha have to make an appearance.

2. The issue distinguishes between Batman and Bruce Wayne as if they're seperate individuals. Although Batman is in the coffin Alfred tells Kirk Langstrom that "Mr Wayne is unable to be with us tonight". "It was your death...or at least it was Batman's" comment to Bruce's spirit suggests that there is a distinction between the two identities. If those gathered around Batman are important enough to him to account for their presence, then who is important enough to be with Bruce? (who she refers to as 'Bruce' and not 'Batman' or 'Mr Wayne')

3. "Shh". This sounds like a mother sushing her child for speaking up when he should be paying attention. "I don't think Death is a person, Bruce" sounds like the kind of idea a parent would want to impart to her child to shape his view of the world.

4. "Why are we here?" "Why? Bruce, you never left". If Bruce never left Crime Alley (which would help explain why he sounds like an inquisitive eight year old child throughout this story) then neither did his parents. His mom should be right next to him - and she is (if this is Martha Wayne).

So, I want to second Vidocq and say this is Martha Wayne...

...or Poison Ivy.

That would be clever if it was Martha Wayne, and I especially like those "clues" you pointed out that suggest this. Plus it would be refreshing to get a story that would bring his mother into focus. Often times whenever Bruce reflects upon his the murder of his parents, we more often than not get more insight and reflection with regards to Thomas Wayne, but hardly any insight into Martha Wayne. One would think that the death of Bruce's mother and what effect she had on him growing up would be just as important as the death of his father and the role he played. Not to mention, there is a nurturing aspect to the woman co-narrating with Bruce.

[Chad]

often times whenever Bruce reflects upon his the murder of his parents, we more often than not get more insight and reflection with regards to Thomas Wayne, but hardly any insight into Martha Wayne. One would think that the death of Bruce's mother and what effect she had on him growing up would be just as important as the death of his father and the role he played.

As much as I love the classic issue in which Batman finally tracks down Joe Chill, it really seemed unsettling that after solving the crime, the casebook he closes is entitled "The Murder of Thomas Wayne". I realise that this same issue retconned Martha Wayne's murder so that she died from a weak heart and not a gunshot, but I think it set a precedent for later issues in which her death wasn't given the gravitas it deserved. Brave and the Bold 184 for instance, had Batman coming across evidence that suggested that his father was a criminal himself. Although he had no reason to believe that his mother was involved as well, Batman nevertheless decided that he no longer had any reason to be a crimefighter.

Alfred: Ah, Sir, might I suggest that while Mr Wayne did not carry himself entirely above reproach in this matter, Martha Wayne's reputation remains untarnished-

Batman: Marsha Wayne? Who the Hell is Marsha Wayne?

[Arctica-0]

This is excellent. I started getting comics today and got this along with Watchman and Batman : The Long Halloween : The Absolute Edition hardcovers. :tongue:

[Sean Whitmore]

I loved that Kirk Langstrom was invited to sit on either side of the aisle. :smile:


SEAN

[Karl O'Neill]

Neil Gaimen will be in the book story called chapters in dublin this coming tuesday at 5.pm

[TROUBLEZ]

Best Batman comic I've read in a long time!

The Alfred story was great! It was like getting 2 1/2 issues worth of stories in one.

[vickvega]

After reading the first trade of Sandman Im convinced that The Black Glove is John Dee aka Dr. Destiny!

[Lew Moxon]

Best Batman comic I've read in a long time!

The Alfred story was great! It was like getting 2 1/2 issues worth of stories in one.

I agree completely. I would add, that my love of the Golden Age, made the catwoman story just as good as the Alfred story.
I wish the second half would arrive soon. But I must be patient.

This almost makes the getting zapped by Darkseid thing worth it.

Almost.

[JumpingJupiter]

Wake me up when we get back to stories about Batman instead of stories about the Batman character.

[dreyga2000]

stories about Batman instead of stories about the Batman character.

Wait... what??
:confused:

[JumpingJupiter]

I'm uber bored of the meta stuff. It gives me a major case of "are we there yet?"

[fin5]

What did you all think of this,i liked it but a bit confused Batman Died in Final Crises 6 right
Is Batman dead or somewhere in time thats what i have been hearing also,the stores by tthe people who know him was very off.Im sure it will all make sence when part 2 comes

[whiteshark]

Now after a few good years without readin Batman stories.
I just bought Batman#686 to see how were the stories going.

And have to say i was suprised to see,that the Batman stories are alright.

Dont have much of a clue with what`s going on in the story.
Batman in a coffin?(:confused: ).
But asides that the story and art was fairly good.
Although you can not get a bad story with Neil Gaiman writing,and Andy Kubert in the art,and Scott Williams doing the inks.

I apoligize if a thread related to Batman#686 was already created but i didnt found one,so i just created this one.

[amidcars]

Really good issue, I don't think this is the Omega Sanction as Batman in the comic is actually dead, not living through these events. I don't think Gaiman would use another writer's idea.

Is that Jim Lee's Joker, after Alfred put on the makeup? We have Timm joker and Quinn, Mazzuchilli Year One Batman, DKR Ollie, what else? Is one of the Riddlers, Frank Gorshin Riddler?

[amidcars]

I must say this was a great issue, despite the fact of not truly own a copy.


Still the stories were interesting and nice nods to the various life times of Batman.

[Drcharles]

This issue is in conjunction with Detective # 853

Can someone please say, without me having to read all these threads,
Is Batman/Bruce Wayne actual Dead or not ?
and if hes not where is he ?

[Karl O'Neill]

I believe ign comics will have a preview up soon for the second part of this story. stay tuned.

[4thHorseman]

This issue is in conjunction with Detective # 853

Can someone please say, without me having to read all these threads,
Is Batman/Bruce Wayne actual Dead or not ?
and if hes not where is he ?

No. He was sent to the past.

[Drcharles]

No. He was sent to the past.

Cheers............Thanks

[LtMarvel]

How do we know it's not the future?

[carabas]

Why would he be in the future if he was shown with Anthro, doing cave-paintings?