Revenge of the Decepti-neocons

[Gothos]

Apologies if this was touched on in that daunting political thread--

For a while I was puzzled as to why a number of Republicans (not necessarily neocons as such, but certainly fellow travelers) were opposing bailouts for big business.

At first I thought they were just motivated to get pork for their constituents.

Then, a chance remark by someone-- maybe Ron Paul, who thinks that in the last eight years we haven't given the free market a fair chance-- made me realize:

It's all about the tax-cut Benjamins.

The economic crisis hasn't changed a thing. The plutocrat puppeteers are still cracking the whip at the neocons and any fellow travelers (including Dems, too) in order to try to make those tax breaks for the wealthy permanent, just as Bush kept counseling up to the bitter end.

That probably tied in to another reason to oppose bailout, too: the people needing bailout aren't the ones who are funding future campaigns.

OK, now shoot it full of holes.

[Calybos]

No, you're pretty much on target. A large portion of Republican leadership is now fully committed to what used to be a "fringe" economic diatribe: Tax Cuts for the Rich Are Magic.

You might enjoy a book called "The Big Con" by Jonathan Chait, which discusses that very point.
http://tinyurl.com/atjnel

[section 8]

That probably tied in to another reason to oppose bailout, too: the people needing bailout aren't the ones who are funding future campaigns.


No, you're pretty much on target. A large portion of Republican leadership is now fully committed to what used to be a "fringe" economic diatribe: Tax Cuts for the Rich Are Magic.


2nd rule of politics: "Dance the one who brought you to the ball"

[Kevinroc]

2nd rule of politics: "Dance the one who brought you to the ball"

That's essentially what the GOP are doing. Even though the one they brought to the ball have taken out a gun and shot many of the other guests in the legs and laughed as they limp around trying to get help.

[Gothos]

No, you're pretty much on target. A large portion of Republican leadership is now fully committed to what used to be a "fringe" economic diatribe: Tax Cuts for the Rich Are Magic.

You might enjoy a book called "The Big Con" by Jonathan Chait, which discusses that very point.
http://tinyurl.com/atjnel

Thanks for the book recommendation. I'll add it to my long list.

[MacQuarrie]

But isn't the massive bailout of failing corporations every bit as much of a "trickle-down" approach as tax cuts? What's the difference whether we hand the rich buckets of bailout money or just cut their taxes? Either way, the middle class is screwed.

[Gothos]

2nd rule of politics: "Dance the one who brought you to the ball"


From one POV that might be the voters...

[Michael P]

From one POV that might be the voters...

It's so very cute that you think that.

[Gothos]

It's so very cute that you think that.

Did you see me say that it was MY point of view?:tongue:

[jhota]

some may be objectivists or miniarchists and actually believe in unregulated laissez-faire capitalism. in other words, "if you fail, you fail."

[Bob Violence]

This is the 2nd consecutive election the GOP has had their asses handed to them. They've lost the Presidency, the Senate, and by 2010, they'll lose their ability to filibuster. You'd think such a losing streak would make them reconsider some of their wackier ideas, but it seems to have the opposite effect.

[Pariah74]

I think the Republican party is about to fracture. We have a two party system but the two parties aren't always Repubs and Dems...and won't always be either.

I think that a lot of republicans, especially the younger ones are shifting more toward the Ron Paul ideas, or the core beliefs that the party claims to have...but really doesn't. IMO that's a good thing...and if Mr. Paul would just get himself a taller and more square-jawed charisma machine he would appeal to more of the uh...more easily swayed members of the party. A pretty face can sway a lot of votes...just look at Palin! And if you had a pretty face that was actually making sense it could be a winning combination.

Currently tho, the Republicans haven't figured out that it's not 1996 anymore and the world has moved on. The way you win an election has changed.

[Gothos]

This is the 2nd consecutive election the GOP has had their asses handed to them. They've lost the Presidency, the Senate, and by 2010, they'll lose their ability to filibuster. You'd think such a losing streak would make them reconsider some of their wackier ideas, but it seems to have the opposite effect.

That's why I favor the idea that the modern equivalent of Tammany bosses are cracking the whip on the asses of the politicians. The bosses can't entertain any thought beyond, "I must keep as much of my capital as I can!" Kevin Phillips' AMERICAN DYNASTY was a good book for understanding the aristocratic bases behind current neocon thought. Gotta get round to his THEOCRACY someday.

And though I replied facetiously to the thing about POV, the truth is that, yes, that's the POV that the politicians themselves *should* have, and the voters as well, but dirty deals and special interests have always made inroads no matter how well-informed the electorate is, and probably always will. For the modern voter the question is not, "Will my candidate steal the golden eggs?," because they all will, in some way or other. The question is, rather, will the candidate be stupid enough to kill the goose that lays the eggs?

[friginator]

I think the Republican party is about to fracture.

That would be great, except then the Democrats would rule everything. It's sort of a monkey's paw situation. The turkey's always a little dry.

[KevinTBrown]

The Grand Ol' Party has become the Grand Ol' Partypoopers... as well as the party of "NO".

[Grazzt]

That would be great, except then the Democrats would rule everything. It's sort of a monkey's paw situation. The turkey's always a little dry.

Not necessarily. Our conservative party practically disintegrated about fifteen years back. A grassroots right-wing party filled the vacuum and now they've absorbed the old conservatives. They're the party in power now.

[section 8]

The Grand Ol' Party has become the Grand Ol' Partypoopers... as well as the party of "NO".

I always called them the "No Fun" party

[KevinTBrown]

This article (http://www.alternet.org/story/117537/) may explain why the Republicans are running scared right now....

[Pariah74]

double post

[Pariah74]

Not necessarily. Our conservative party practically disintegrated about fifteen years back. A grassroots right-wing party filled the vacuum and now they've absorbed the old conservatives. They're the party in power now.

This is sort of what I was thinking about when I was writing that...though I don't know that it was just the events of 15 years ago that damaged the party. Once the high & mighty are swept back to the dark corners in which they belong, and the party finally finally finally admits that supply side economics don't work, the conservatives may actually get my votes again. Reagan had some good ideas on variations in trickle down theory but the problem has been that the GOP has picked out what they liked and discarded the important bits like reducing government spending and reducing income tax on labor. Oh they kept the idea of reducing taxes on capital gains tho!

In the end both sides of the aisles have sound economic theories...but when you inject greed and lack of oversight into the equation everything folds.

The biggest problem from the previous administration wasn't the policies...it was the lack of oversight. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? No?


The question I want answered is why, if the bank bailout was paid for with tax dollars, haven't the people who have been paying their mortgages faithfully been given a drop in either the interest rates or principle?

You know if you used the bailout money to ease or erase the debts of people who have been paying these companies on time for 15 or 20 years, they would be likely to borrow again. And that would stimulate the economy too...as well as benefit "Joe the Plumber"

[KevinTBrown]

By the way, just to put a picture on when the Republicans play politics, this is what happens:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/photos/uncategorized/2009/02/07/jobsrecessionssm_2.jpg