The all-purpose Magic: The Gathering megathread

[Sanagi]

As DrewTheXenocide pointed out recently, there's a dearth of discussion of Magic, the venerable founder of CCGs, on this board. So I figured I'd just start a general discussion thread for Magic.

Just to get things moving, how about listing favorite colors and cards?

Green's the color I play most, and my favorite cards in it are Stampeding Wildebeests, Call of the Wild, and the good old Llanowar Elves.

Blue to me is about doing weird, surprising things, and breaking rules. Cunning Wish, Browse, and Vesuvan Doppelganger are my favorites here.

Black is always fun. It's great to play the bad guy. Necropotence, Soulless One, and Cuombajj Witches are my faves.

White seems to have a lack of identity lately, but it certainly has its great cards. Serra Angel, Shaman en-Kor, and Mother of Runes are standouts.

Red is easily the color I play least, as I'm just not that interested in speed and burn decks. It's hard to think of red cards that I'd really call favorites. Kilnmouth Dragon is the main one that comes to mind.

If you want to look up cards you can go to the official site (http://www.magicthegathering.com) and use their Gatherer (http://gatherer.wizards.com/) database.

[DrewTheXenocide]

As DrewTheXenocide pointed out recently, there's a dearth of discussion of Magic, the venerable founder of CCGs, on this board. So I figured I'd just start a general discussion thread for Magic.

Just to get things moving, how about listing favorite colors and cards?

Green's the color I play most, and my favorite cards in it are Stampeding Wildebeests, Call of the Wild, and the good old Llanowar Elves.

Blue to me is about doing weird, surprising things, and breaking rules. Cunning Wish, Browse, and Vesuvan Doppelganger are my favorites here.

Black is always fun. It's great to play the bad guy. Necropotence, Soulless One, and Cuombajj Witches are my faves.

White seems to have a lack of identity lately, but it certainly has its great cards. Serra Angel, Shaman en-Kor, and Mother of Runes are standouts.

Red is easily the color I play least, as I'm just not that interested in speed and burn decks. It's hard to think of red cards that I'd really call favorites. Kilnmouth Dragon is the main one that comes to mind.

If you want to look up cards you can go to the official site (http://www.magicthegathering.com) and use their Gatherer (http://gatherer.wizards.com/) database.
FINALLY! A real M:TG thread. cools. I've been outta the loop for while, but I usually stick with mono-black. My zombies kick ass. 'Cept I've found that it's a tad too slow, 'cause it keeps getting pummeled by my friend's Elf deck. Then again, I haven't played since Legions soo yeah...

[Spiff]

We should get a group together and use Netdraft and Apprentice to get some games going :)

Mirrodin block was very eh, but I think Kamigawa is pretty fun and bombtacular, although nothing very over the top (ie, nothing to beat Mirrodin block's Affinity deck).

[Celisasu]

I haven't played magic in a long long time. People were telling me how counterspell got restricted or banned or something awhile back and the thought running through my head was "wtf?" especially after they showed me assorted insta kill cards.


When I did play Magic I was one of those horrible evil permission players who's games would take forever. Unless I was playing the goblins. I did like my goblins.

[DrewTheXenocide]

How many of us actually have cards with those funky "new" boarders? Anyhoo, I think I wanna get back into it, so any recommendations? Do they still sell those 50 card boosters like they did with the Oddessy set?

[Sanagi]

I haven't played magic in a long long time. People were telling me how counterspell got restricted or banned or something awhile back and the thought running through my head was "wtf?" especially after they showed me assorted insta kill cards.
That didn't happen. The only counterspell that's ever been restricted is Mana Drain, and only in the new Type 1.5 format.

How many of us actually have cards with those funky "new" boarders? Anyhoo, I think I wanna get back into it, so any recommendations? Do they still sell those 50 card boosters like they did with the Oddessy set?
A lot of people were upset over the new borders, but I don't mind them. I do think it was unfortunate that the new ones just aren't as cool as the game deserves, imho. There was the problem of the artifact border looking like the white border, which they have fixed... But also, I think the new red border looks hands-down worse than the old one. On the plus side, the new black border is a big improvement. The old swamp bubble motif was never that great. I am eager to see the new gold border, when they get around to making it.

But I don't own any cards with the new border. It just happens that my gaming cash ran dry around the time of Scourge. Unhinged may change that.

[DrewTheXenocide]

I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate not having anyone to play with. I mean, the closest of my friends who play magic are liike, a fifteen minute walk away from me...and that's if I powerwalk. My local comic book store doesn't hold Magic Tourneys anymore, 'cause everyone's into Yu-Gi-Oh, and they only do tourneys by requests from their customers...and they're only a handful of us who actually play. And to add more to this somewhat anti-magic conspiracy that plauges us all...the nearest actual card store has moved across town. *sigh* I miss Junior HIgh School, where we'd all play at lunch. Curse you Yu-Gi-oh! CURSE YOU!!!!

[Dizzy D]

Not having somebody to play with sucks indeed (see my problem with Mythos, Middle-Earth and Vampire. I do have friends and family who play Magic though)

Haven't played in about a year or so, but my brother and his girlfriend recently restarted, so I'll probably follow them soon.

My favourite decks are mono-white. I seriously started collecting around the time of Mercadian Masquerades and my Rebel deck is still my strongest. Decent creatures with strong protective spells and abilities.

A blue-white deck that is based on Shifting Skies (turns all permanents into the colour of your choice), Rebel Scouts (2 life for each black or red creature your opponent controls) and Protection from Black cards is another favourite of mine.

I stopped collecting around Apocalypse, then briefly got into it again with Mirrodin.

Green and Red: I don't use them much. They can be fun to play, but my playing style is more suited to white, white/blue or blue/black. I have some mono green and mono red decks ready and at least one of them is competitive, but they just don't appeal to me so much.

[Bobthedead]

I just dont have the money to spend on the cards. When I was into Magic (a few years ago, or more) I played blue/black decks that forced my hand into my graveyard and provided me with quick ways of finding Dance of the dead, or any other reanimation card that had a low casting cost. With putrid imp and restless dreams I could get some real nice cards into play. Crosis the Purger was a fav of mine. Even though I only had the colors to play his ability (black, blue and red legendary Dragon) I could get him out on the second turn half the time. I needed one more copy of him and my deck would have been complete.

(Example of getting Crosis out the second turn. You have to draw 1or two land, one if your next draw turns out to be land, a putrid imp, crosis and Dance of the Dead 'casting cost of two'. Play Putrid imp first turn, then next turn if you have your secound land out sac crosis for imps ability and cast dance of the dead)

If I felt like doing the math I would figure out what the chances of that where, but if I manaweaved my deck good I usually got Crosis out by the fourth turn)

All these new cards I just cant get into. Its not the same game when the same effects and abilities I played with in the past cost so much less mana, and there are so many more powerful cards. Feels unbalanced, so now I tend to only enjoy playing old decks.

[Sanagi]

Reanimation is a classic. My old favorite was a Skull of Orm deck with Animate Dead and Dance of Many, but that's slow by today's standards. A great new resource for animator decks are the landcycling creatures, especially the amazing Twisted Abomination, which I would put four copies of in every black deck if I had enough of them. Oh yeah, and Chainer, Dementia Master. I have a Chainer deck that I just love. "I'll take your Serra Angel... But for me, she's a 5/5 black nightmare angel."

[Voncaster]

I think Mirrodin ruined the game for me. I played a red control deck (red burn) and it was pretty good. I devoted all 15 sideboard slots to artifact hate, and I could still only muster a 50% record against affinity. That deck is so broken its rediculous. Untill Affinity leaves I'm staying out of magic.

I try and limit myself to playing mono red decks. It keeps my deck building simple and my costs down. I also like Suicide black...pretty much fast aggro decks are my favorite deck types. But I hate Affinity, its just a dumb powerful deck that will screw the metagame for a solid two years. That was some pretty good crack R&D was smoking when they came up with Affinity.

My favorite colors from top to bottom
RED I like burn and red weenie rushing
BLACK I like creatures and the card drawing of black
WHITE Great Weenie color, the rival of red...some great matches playing against white. My best deck ever was a White Rebel deck from Mercadian Masques.
GREEN It was my favorite as a newbie, but the lack of removal in green steered me towards red and black later.
BLUE I started playing in Mercadian Masques, when blue was just rediculously over powered. Rishadan Ports and a billion counter spells made sure that I could never successfully play my fat creatures. I have hated blue when I started and I still do. I realize its powerful, but pure control is not my cup of tea.

[Sanagi]

That was some pretty good crack R&D was smoking when they came up with Affinity.
Actually, Affinity itself wouldn't be broken if they hadn't made the artifact lands. In an Affinity deck all the lands are like free Sol Rings.

[Spiff]

The problems with affinity is that it's ridiculously fast, and has multiple threats in Cranial Plating, Disciple, and Ravager/Atog. We'll see if Kamigawa's Imi Statue does anything against Affinity, although I doubt the much touted Cranial Extraction would put a dent in affinity. Samurai of the Pale Curtain or Horobi, Death's Wail would do some good against affinity, although I'm not sure what kind of deck they'd fit in.

And there're always Kamigawa block tournaments, and sealed games. Sealed is probably the best way to play Magic tournament wise, so you won't see dumb things like Affinity.

[GozertheGozarian]

Anymore, I use either monowhite soldier/knight first strike with crest of arms or a monogreen elf with the coat. That is, until they restricted the coat.

[Sanagi]

Anymore, I use either monowhite soldier/knight first strike with crest of arms or a monogreen elf with the coat. That is, until they restricted the coat.
Coat of Arms restricted? In what format? Tribal?

I haven't played a tournament in ages... Lessee... Weatherlight. That was a while ago. Mostly I play casual type 1. The new 1.5 format is intriguing to me for that reason. I'm waiting to see what happens with that.

[DrewTheXenocide]

Coat of Arms restricted? In what format? Tribal?

I haven't played a tournament in ages... Lessee... Weatherlight. That was a while ago. Mostly I play casual type 1. The new 1.5 format is intriguing to me for that reason. I'm waiting to see what happens with that.
There used to be a site that I frequented...ahh..I can't remember the name of it. It'd have cards for plenty of series. I used it manily for reference on what cards i wanted to add to my deck...They showed a picture of the card, what it did, and all the restrictions on it. Anybody have any idea what I'm talking about?

[Sanagi]

There used to be a site that I frequented...ahh..I can't remember the name of it. It'd have cards for plenty of series. I used it manily for reference on what cards i wanted to add to my deck...They showed a picture of the card, what it did, and all the restrictions on it. Anybody have any idea what I'm talking about?
Not sure exactly... But gatherer (http://gatherer.wizards.com/) will do that.

[Spiff]

I just flipped through the new Champs decklists, and saw that Kamigawa hasn't done a whole lot to stop affinity.

Heck, Kamigawa wasn't used all that much, other than some of the Legendary Lands, some random legends, or Sakura Tribe Elder for Tooth and Nail.

But really, nothing seems to stop the affinity onslaught.

[Sanagi]

Wow. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/feature/236)
Also, yahoo.

[sehthan]

My zombies kick ass. 'Cept I've found that it's a tad too slow...
Well, that's appropriate. Call me old-fashioned, but zombies should be slow...

I was kinda into magic for a while way back around '95. That's a long time ago in gaming years and I'm barely following much of this conversation. Heh. Still have roughly a shoebox worth's of cards, but I only play very rarely when I get together with some out-of-town friends. I refuse to buy new cards, but they play a bit more regularly and have built up their arsenals a bit since the old days. I really can't compete with them anymore, but it's still fun to play.

My favorite card back in the day was Rabid Wombat, but my stupid friends would always kill or steal it as soon as I'd bring it into play. Never got to do anything cool with that card...

[Spiff]

Wow. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/feature/236)
Also, yahoo.

I just hope the card doesn't suck like the first two did.

And by "doesn't suck," I mean "constructed playable." Although Forgotten Ancient really hurt because it was sooo close to not sucking :( And I guess Crucible of Worlds gets play in T1 (and only T1...), but it's a very boring card.

[Sanagi]

Well, that's appropriate. Call me old-fashioned, but zombies should be slow...

I was kinda into magic for a while way back around '95. That's a long time ago in gaming years and I'm barely following much of this conversation. Heh. Still have roughly a shoebox worth's of cards, but I only play very rarely when I get together with some out-of-town friends. I refuse to buy new cards, but they play a bit more regularly and have built up their arsenals a bit since the old days. I really can't compete with them anymore, but it's still fun to play.

My favorite card back in the day was Rabid Wombat, but my stupid friends would always kill or steal it as soon as I'd bring it into play. Never got to do anything cool with that card...
Yeah, you have to love the Wombat, but it is sadly a terrible card. Expensive for its size? Check. Useless on its own? Check. Relies on other cards that are useless on their own? Check. By design, sets you up for painful setbacks? Check.

Oh, and speaking of zombies:

4x Carrion Feeder
4x Festering Goblin
2x Putrid Imp
2x Skinthinner
2x Withered Wretch
2x Nantuko Husk
3x Phyrexian Ghoul
1x Zombie Trailblazer
1x Graveborn Muse
1x Undead Warchief
3x Soulless One
4x Grave Defiler
4x Noxious Ghoul
4x Gempalm Polluter
1x Unholy Grotto
22x Swamp

[DrewTheXenocide]

Yeah, you have to love the Wombat, but it is sadly a terrible card. Expensive for its size? Check. Useless on its own? Check. Relies on other cards that are useless on their own? Check. By design, sets you up for painful setbacks? Check.

Oh, and speaking of zombies:

4x Carrion Feeder
4x Festering Goblin
2x Putrid Imp
2x Skinthinner
2x Withered Wretch
2x Nantuko Husk
3x Phyrexian Ghoul
1x Zombie Trailblazer
1x Graveborn Muse
1x Undead Warchief
3x Soulless One
4x Grave Defiler
4x Noxious Ghoul
4x Gempalm Polluter
1x Unholy Grotto
22x Swamp
Is that your deck? Mine is similar...probably just altered the Legions zombie deck too.. I'm surprised that you have Graveborn Muse on there. I dunno if it's just me, but, I honestly don't know how to use it. I mean... doesn't it drain your life if it isn't in the graveyard? And those Gempalm Polluters are the best though. I don't even use them as creatures. Just cycle 'em...and you can take away a good chunk o' your opponent's health. Kicks ass.

[Sanagi]

Is that your deck? Mine is similar...probably just altered the Legions zombie deck too.. I'm surprised that you have Graveborn Muse on there. I dunno if it's just me, but, I honestly don't know how to use it. I mean... doesn't it drain your life if it isn't in the graveyard? And those Gempalm Polluters are the best though. I don't even use them as creatures. Just cycle 'em...and you can take away a good chunk o' your opponent's health. Kicks ass.
Graveborn Muse is the kind of card you have to design your deck around, and you're right, it doesn't really belong here. Honestly, the main reason I still have it in here is because I like the artwork. At its best, it's a very strong card, as a sort of Hill Giant with a Necropotence attached. In here I don't really need it since I have the goofy-named-but-awesome Grave Defilers. Still, it's not bad because I can feed it to the various Husks, Ghouls and Feeders as soon as it gets out of hand. And yes, Gempalm Polluters are amazing, especially with Unholy Grotto. I just wish I had more Twisted Abominations so I could spare a couple for this deck.

[DrewTheXenocide]

Graveborn Muse is the kind of card you have to design your deck around, and you're right, it doesn't really belong here. Honestly, the main reason I still have it in here is because I like the artwork. At its best, it's a very strong card, as a sort of Hill Giant with a Necropotence attached. In here I don't really need it since I have the goofy-named-but-awesome Grave Defilers. Still, it's not bad because I can feed it to the various Husks, Ghouls and Feeders as soon as it gets out of hand. And yes, Gempalm Polluters are amazing, especially with Unholy Grotto. I just wish I had more Twisted Abominations so I could spare a couple for this deck.

Btw, I found the site i was talkin' bout before...www.anycraze.com

I looked up "Unholy Grotto" and...HOLY BUH-JEEZUS!! That would totally be great in my deck...but alas, 'tis rare. Are there any other black cards that have a similar effect?

[Sanagi]

Btw, I found the site i was talkin' bout before...www.anycraze.com

I looked up "Unholy Grotto" and...HOLY BUH-JEEZUS!! That would totally be great in my deck...but alas, 'tis rare. Are there any other black cards that have a similar effect?
Lots of 'em...Volrath's Stronghold will do the same for any type of creature for a little more mana, while Haunted Crossroads and Mortuary are the closest non-land analogs. But Unholy Grotto is definitely the one you want for the zombie deck because, as a land, it doesn't take up space in your deck that could be used for zombies, and the one mana difference over the Stronghold matters in an aggressive deck. If I had one or two more Grottos they would absolutely go in my deck. I would stop at three because I usually need two black mana in my opening hand in order to play Withered Wretch or two little guys on turn two.

By the way, the craziest thing about the Grotto... You can cycle a Polluter and respond by putting him on top of your deck, thus drawing him off his own cycling ability. This works because the discard is a cost and happens before the cycling ability resolves.

[DrewTheXenocide]

Lots of 'em...Volrath's Stronghold will do the same for any type of creature for a little more mana, while Haunted Crossroads and Mortuary are the closest non-land analogs. But Unholy Grotto is definitely the one you want for the zombie deck because, as a land, it doesn't take up space in your deck that could be used for zombies, and the one mana difference over the Stronghold matters in an aggressive deck. If I had one or two more Grottos they would absolutely go in my deck. I would stop at three because I usually need two black mana in my opening hand in order to play Withered Wretch or two little guys on turn two.

By the way, the craziest thing about the Grotto... You can cycle a Polluter and respond by putting him on top of your deck, thus drawing him off his own cycling ability. This works because the discard is a cost and happens before the cycling ability resolves.
Hmmm...damn, there don't seem to be any good new zombies anymore. All that's come out recently are these new "Nim" creatures that pander towards artifact users.

[Dizzy D]

Hmmm...damn, there don't seem to be any good new zombies anymore. All that's come out recently are these new "Nim" creatures that pander towards artifact users.

Nims are yesterday's news. From what I've seen, Rats are the new black creature to use:

Relentless Rats 1BB (Creature — Rat, Uncommon)
Relentless Rats gets +1/+1 for each other creature in play named Relentless Rats.
A deck can have any number of cards named Relentless Rats. 2/2

Marrow-Gnawer 3BB (Legendary Creature — Rat Rogue, Rare)
All Rats have fear.
, Sacrifice a Rat: Put X 1/1 black Rat creature tokens into play, where X is the number of Rats you control. 2/3

Nezumi Graverobber (Creature — Rat Rogue, 1B, Uncommon)
1B: Remove target card in an opponent's graveyard from the game. If no cards are in that graveyard, flip Nezumi Graverobber. 2/1
Nighteyes the Desecrator (Legendary Creature — Rat Wizard)
4B: Put target creature card in a graveyard into play under your control. 4/2

Nezumi Shortfang (Creature — Rat Rogue, 1B, Rare)
1B, tap: Target opponent discards a card. Then if that player has no cards in hand, flip Nezumi Shortfang. 1/1
Stabwhisker the Odious (Legendary Creature — Rat Shaman)
At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, that player loses 1 life for each card fewer than three in his or her hand. 3/3

(Plus various other Rat-creatures)

[DrewTheXenocide]

Relentless Rats 1BB (Creature — Rat, Uncommon)
Relentless Rats gets +1/+1 for each other creature in play named Relentless Rats.
A deck can have any number of cards named Relentless Rats. 2/2


Meaning it can break the four card limit rule? Oooh, that's quite nifty.

[Sanagi]

Meaning it can break the four card limit rule? Oooh, that's quite nifty.
I couldn't decide whether to be happy or angry about it. Happy because it's a cool idea, or angry because I have a Plague Rats deck that is now obsolete as well as illegal.

Yeah, zombies are out. They had their day in the sun. Er, swamp.

[Spiff]

Nims are yesterday's news. From what I've seen, Rats are the new black creature to use

Actually, if you want to talk competitively, the new black creature to use would be Kokusho, the Evening Star, or Disciple of the Vault if you're running affinity. And...that would be it. But it does seem like Monoblack control is viable again.

Too bad Green looks like it got the shaft again, even if the best constructed card (arguably) in Champions came from Green. Where's the fat, efficient, Ravenous Baloth style beats?

[Pedalhome]

I'm pumped about some of the Kamigawa white cards. They look deadly:

http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/mtgcom/fcpics/features/CHK74870_KondaLordOfEiganjo.jpg

[Spiff]

I'm pumped about some of the Kamigawa white cards. They look deadly:

http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/mtgcom/fcpics/features/CHK74870_KondaLordOfEiganjo.jpg

Having actually played with Konda in his best environment (limited), I can say that he really isn't all that. He's a giant wall, but he only does 3 a round, and can be easily chumped. I'm not saying you DON'T play him in limited, because he's very bomby and is ridiculously hard to deal with, but I'd rather have a Kabuto Moth or Kitsune Blademaster, personally.

White weenie still won't be played competitively, sadly, even with the affinity hosing Samurai of the Pale Curtain. A shame, really, as WW was always a fun deck to play.

[DrewTheXenocide]

I'm pumped about some of the Kamigawa white cards. They look deadly:

http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/mtgcom/fcpics/features/CHK74870_KondaLordOfEiganjo.jpg
Wow, it looks like I REALLY gotta get back into the game 'cause I have no idea what set that symbol that looks like two axes making a "pi" symbol stands for.

[Spiff]

Wow, it looks like I REALLY gotta get back into the game 'cause I have no idea what set that symbol that looks like two axes making a "pi" symbol stands for.

It's Champions of Kamigawa, the newest set out.

The symbol is supposed to be a Japanese shrine building thing. Don't know the proper name.

[Sanagi]

It's Champions of Kamigawa, the newest set out.

The symbol is supposed to be a Japanese shrine building thing. Don't know the proper name.
That would be "torii." (http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2059.html)

[Sanagi]

Okay, here's a topic for discussion. What's the most annoying deck you've ever played against? And by annoying I don't just mean overpowered... I mean irritating by design.

A friend of mine has a coin-flip deck. It wins with Chance Encounter, and I have to give it some points for style for that. But first of all, having to flip a coin all the damn time gets old. Also, it's really aggravating to try and attack through multiple Impulsive Maneuvers. And it's frustrating to lose because you literally aren't lucky enough. I don't even want to think about what it'd be like with Krark's Thumb.

The most annoying deck of my own design was probably one I made around the time of Mirage. It used Unsummon effects to stuff cards in my opponent's hand, and Memory Lapse, Disempower, and Aether Well to stop them from drawing any new cards. I once made someone draw the same Juggernaut three times, while killing them with Man-o-war. How evil. I'm so proud.

[Spiff]

Okay, here's a topic for discussion. What's the most annoying deck you've ever played against? And by annoying I don't just mean overpowered... I mean irritating by design.

Stasis decks and anything that has the Power Nine, as you wait 15 minutes for your first turn.

Single handedly made me refuse to play T1.

[DrewTheXenocide]

When Slivers came back for a while a year or so ago, my friend made a sliver deck. It was totally annoying 'cause he had these cards (forgot what they were called) that made him gain life per each sliver he had. He also combined these with the mistforms...so the ending score would be 1 hundred something to zero.

[Sanagi]

When Slivers came back for a while a year or so ago, my friend made a sliver deck. It was totally annoying 'cause he had these cards (forgot what they were called) that made him gain life per each sliver he had. He also combined these with the mistforms...so the ending score would be 1 hundred something to zero.
Hee hee... I love slivers. Crystalline Sliver is one of the biggest warning signs you can see on the second turn. I never was able to make a particularly effective sliver/mistform deck, though.

Here's my sliver deck.

5 COLOR UTILI-SLIVER
4x Winged Sliver
4x Muscle Sliver
4x Crystalline Sliver
3x Hibernation Sliver
3x Acidic Sliver
2x Essence Sliver
3x Ward Sliver
1x Sliver Queen
3x Bloodline Shaman
2x Swords to Plowshares
2x Unearth
1x Orim's Thunder
2x Dismantling Blow
1x Patriarch's Bidding
1x Lotus Petal
1x Sol Ring
1x Plains
1x Island
1x Forest
1x Coastal Tower
3x Underground River
1x Karplusan Forest
1x Elfhame Palace
2x Brushland
1x Caves of Koilos
1x Llanowar Wastes
1x Shivan Reef
1x Treva's Ruins
1x Dromar's Caverns
1x Crosis's Catacombs
1x Darigaaz's Caldera
1x Rith's Grove
3x Gemstone Mine
1x Undiscovered Paradise

[DrewTheXenocide]

I was in the city a couple days ago, and the comic book store had a sale! I got two packs of twenty cards all spanning from Uzra stuff to Oddesy (although I got an eigth edition in there, my first new boarder card!), with one rare each and a couple of uncommons, and the rest commons for a buck each! (I also got a VAn and Hitomi figures for 3 bucks.) SOme good stuff includes Crackling Fiend and for some reason, a buttload of Kavus.

ANyhoo, I just remembered, my friend had a white weenie deck based on the white deck that came out for seventh edition. That was a purty annoying one..considering he was a cheese-o who used those circle of protection thingies...and of course my zombie deck doesn't have any anti-enchantment cards. Cheese-o.

[Sanagi]

I was in the city a couple days ago, and the comic book store had a sale! I got two packs of twenty cards all spanning from Uzra stuff to Oddesy (although I got an eigth edition in there, my first new boarder card!), with one rare each and a couple of uncommons, and the rest commons for a buck each! (I also got a VAn and Hitomi figures for 3 bucks.) SOme good stuff includes Crackling Fiend and for some reason, a buttload of Kavus.

ANyhoo, I just remembered, my friend had a white weenie deck based on the white deck that came out for seventh edition. That was a purty annoying one..considering he was a cheese-o who used those circle of protection thingies...and of course my zombie deck doesn't have any anti-enchantment cards. Cheese-o.
You could still kill him with Gempalm Polluter, or Shepherd of Rot or Vengeful Dead if you use them, since Circles of Protection don't work against life loss.

In red, I love having Flaring Pain around to stop damage prevention. My favorite use for it was in my Call of the Wild deck, where it would get milled into my graveyard so I could flash it back later.

[Dizzy D]

Okay, here's a topic for discussion. What's the most annoying deck you've ever played against? And by annoying I don't just mean overpowered... I mean irritating by design.

A friend of mine thought it was fun to use a deck in casual play that was solely based on one card to win: Battle of Wits:

Battle of Wits 3UU
Enchantment
Rare

At the beginning of your upkeep, if you have 200 or more cards in your library, you win the game.

The wizard who reads a thousand books is powerful. The wizard who memorizes a thousand books is insane.

Imagine, the 'fun' of watching somebody keep giving himself draw-card abilities so he can finally find that 4 of 300+ cards in his deck that he needs to win.... and who needs to reshuffle his deck everytime he uses those abilities...

He didn't win, but his turns took like 10 minutes every single time.

[Sanagi]

A friend of mine thought it was fun to use a deck in casual play that was solely based on one card to win: Battle of Wits:

Battle of Wits 3UU
Enchantment
Rare

At the beginning of your upkeep, if you have 200 or more cards in your library, you win the game.

The wizard who reads a thousand books is powerful. The wizard who memorizes a thousand books is insane.

Imagine, the 'fun' of watching somebody keep giving himself draw-card abilities so he can finally find that 4 of 300+ cards in his deck that he needs to win.... and who needs to reshuffle his deck everytime he uses those abilities...

He didn't win, but his turns took like 10 minutes every single time.
Yeah, when I made a Battle of Wits deck I specifically avoided shuffling effects and focused on card drawing, out of respect for my fellow players' patience.

I always wanted to make a sixty-card Wits deck, but the method will have to wait as I can't stay online at the moment.

[DrewTheXenocide]

I always wanted to make a sixty-card Wits deck, but the method will have to wait as I can't stay online at the moment.

How would you do that, considering Battle of Wits needs AT LEAT two hundred something caards to work?

[Spiff]

If you look hard enough, I believe there was a Battle of Wits deck that won a fairly major tournament, like a Pro Tour tournament or some such.

If not won, got top 8'ed, which is still respectable.

[Sanagi]

"Cram School"
*NOTE* This is a casual-only deck; it doesn't work under tournament rules.
*NOTE 2* I haven't actually made this deck, so it would definitely need playtesting.
3x Battle of Wits
3x Mirari
3x Cunning Wish
3x Mind Over Matter
1x Feldon's Cane
1x Soldevi Digger
1x Reminisce
4x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
4x Intuition
4x Impulse
1x Tolarian Academy
4x Mind Stone
4x Mishra's Factory
16x Island

And having written that I can already see that this design needs refining, but it's an idea. Anyways, you get Tolarian Academy with at least six artifacts in play. You cast Cunning Wish and copy it with Mirari, getting a Cunning Wish and any random instant. You discard the instant to Mind Over Matter to untap Academy. Then repeat this process about 200 times. Now use Feldon's Cane(or Digger or Remnisce) to put all those cards into your deck. Cast Battle of Wits and (hopefully) win.

[Sam]

I can't rattle off exactly what's in it, but I have a badass arcbound deck. A couple Arcbound Overseers to drop a +1/+1 token on virtually every single one of my creatures every upkeep. Arcbound Crushers, which are perhaps the most ludicrously overpowered creature in the game if you're playing an artifact-heavy deck -- I've had the things clocking in around 70/70 by the end of the game on more than one occasion. And let us not forget the Platinum Angel, the wondrous artifact creature whose special ability is, "As long as Platinum Angel is in play, you cannot lose the game and your opponent cannot win the game."

Now add in 4 Flights, and Wonder (as long as Wonder is in your graveyard, all your creatures can fly), and you're attacking your opponent with gigantic colorless flying trample creatures that get bigger every round. And if one of them dies, you just take its entire power and toughness and drop it on another one of your creatures. Throw in several Reshapes to bring out any artifact I want, and Sculpting Steels to instacopy any artifact in play, and it's a pretty ridiculous deck.

What is really scary, however, is that my brother and all our friends are way, way more into Magic than I am, and have decks that can tear that one to pieces.

[DrewTheXenocide]

If anybody plays with the newer sets, can anybody recommend me a set with really good black cards? Oh, and do they still have those 75 card boosters out? Muchos gracias!

[Spiff]

If anybody plays with the newer sets, can anybody recommend me a set with really good black cards? Oh, and do they still have those 75 card boosters out? Muchos gracias!

You probably won't find better black cards than in Torment.

I think Wizards has been trying to get some suicide black or monoblack control type cards out there, but the only one that's been somewhat successful is monoblack control (Cranial Extraction and Death Cloud are the big cards there).

[DrewTheXenocide]

You probably won't find better black cards than in Torment.

I think Wizards has been trying to get some suicide black or monoblack control type cards out there, but the only one that's been somewhat successful is monoblack control (Cranial Extraction and Death Cloud are the big cards there).
Mm hmm..alright. THanksees. Okay, so howsabout any color? Whaddyour favorite newer sets/colors in those sets? And by newer, I mean that wacky boarder newer.

[Sam]

If anybody plays with the newer sets, can anybody recommend me a set with really good black cards? Oh, and do they still have those 75 card boosters out? Muchos gracias!

Champions of Kamagawa has some excellent black cards, actually. They came up with a rather cool black-only gimmick. They have a variety of cool, nifty new Demon Spirits, but more importantly, the Ogre creature cards in Champions are centered around summoning and gaining power from Demons.

Basically, there's a bunch of Demon cards that have various negative effects -- sacrifice a creature every upkeep or what have you -- that are turned off if you have an Ogre in play. And likewise, there are a bunch of Ogres that gain abilities when Demons are in play, or give you the ability to play Demon cards faster.

My favorite being Blood Singer (or Blood Speaker or something like that), an Ogre Shaman. Sacrifice him to bring any Demon card out of your library and into your hand. Whenever you play any Demon card, it comes back out of your graveyard and into your hand. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Combine Kamagawa Ogres with some of the old-school Demons, and you can put together a pretty scary deck. Lord of the Pit is back, and this time it's personal.

[DrewTheXenocide]

Ah, crapshot...they Kamigawa doesn't have any mono black premade decks...although it appears that they DO have those 75 card boosters out for it. Hmm...quite something to look into.

[Sanagi]

The first Unhinged cards revealed! There's only four but they're already cracking me up.

http://cards.mtgnews.com/Find/Spoilers/UH/Unhinged_Spoiler.html

A creature with exponential power and toughness? A creature that can change its artist credit? This is going to be too much fun...

[Sanagi]

It's finally happened. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mf15)

[DrewTheXenocide]

That flying rhino thingy looks quite silly.

[Sanagi]

That flying rhino thingy looks quite silly.
Huh? You mean the Phelddagrif? It's a hippo. I like the Questing Phelddagrif better, but the original's great, too. They're both a blast in multiplayer games.

[Sanagi]

MTGnews.com has pics of the Unhinged basic lands... Not as snazzy a design as the ones from Unglued, but it's certainly a cool concept - Basically, the card is all art.

[sehthan]

The swamp and the forrest are particularly cool.

[Sanagi]

They remind me a lot of the Urza's Saga lands, but that's not a bad thing. John Avon did those too(except, I think, forest and plains), and they're some of my favorites. That glow he adds to the color really captures the feeling of a place where magical energy is stored.

[Sanagi]

This (http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Cheatyface) might turn out to be my all-time favorite card...

[GozertheGozarian]

Newbies of the game rejoice!

[DrewTheXenocide]

"...but if an opponent catches you right away, that player may remove Cheatyface from the game."

Hah, like he'll catch me. It's not like nobody ever falls for the "hey look over there" trick anymore.

[Sanagi]

I love how it just says "You may sneak this card in to play..." That phrase seems to give you permission to go to any length to get the card on the table. I wonder what the FAQ will say about it... Like, can you stack it underneath a land and then just slide it out later?

One thing's for sure, it's awesome in multiplayer. People won't even look your way until it comes back to your turn, and suddenly they realize you have a whole team of efreets.

[Sanagi]

Mtgnews.com got a bunch more cards in their Unhinged spoiler. Ever wondered what a "Mox Lotus" would do? Well, it adds infinity mana to your mana pool. Though I think my favorite out of these is the "Old Fogey" - a dinosaur that has nine obsolete abilities. There's also a card that gains enormous power from its own flavor text.

[DrewTheXenocide]

I just want another type of Big Furry Hariy Monster thingy. That thing rocked.

[Sanagi]

I just want another type of Big Furry Hariy Monster thingy. That thing rocked.
So far no multi-card cards have been revealed. There's a card that costs a million mana, though.

Woo! Lots more cards at MTGnews.

[Sanagi]

I love it.

Now I Know My ABC's - 1UU
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control permanents with names that include all twenty-six letters of the English alphabet, you win the game.
The quick onyx goblin jumps over the lazy dwarf.

[Sanagi]

Togglodyte - 3
Artifact Creature - Golem
Togglodyte comes into play turned on.
Whenever a player plays a spell, toggle Togglodyte's ON/OFF switch.
As long as Togglodyte is turned off, it can't attack or block, and all damage it would deal is prevented.
4/4
Illus. Dan Frazier

Damn. I really, honestly, I'm-totally-not-kidding came up with an ability that worked like this and was called "toggling."

[sehthan]

Man of Measure - http://forums.mtgnews.com/images/smilies/mana1.gifhttp://forums.mtgnews.com/images/smilies/manaw.gifhttp://forums.mtgnews.com/images/smilies/manaw.gif
Creature - Human Knight
As long as you're shorter than an opponent, Man of Measure has first strike and gets +0/+1.
As long as you're taller than an opponent, Man of Measure gets +1/+0.
2/2
Illus. Edward P. Beard Jr.
Common
Now they need a card that lets you change the height of a player...

[Sanagi]

I had a comic shop gift certificate lying around since my birthday, so I got a bunch of Unhinged... Wooo! I got a Time Machine! (http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=time+machine)

:evilsmile

[DrewTheXenocide]

I had a comic shop gift certificate lying around since my birthday, so I got a bunch of Unhinged... Wooo! I got a Time Machine! (http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=time+machine)

:evilsmile
Pick a creature with a really high manna count and go... "under the authority of Wizards of the Coast, you are hereby MINEE for the duration of X games! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA...what? No, you may not use the bathroom."

[Sanagi]

The Magic Decks Thread

Got decks? Discuss!

Anyone wanting to identify a card mentioned on this thread, consult WotC's Gatherer at http://gatherer.wizards.com/


---------
"Legendary Dragons"

DRAGONS
2x Kilnmouth Dragon
1x Darigaaz, the Igniter
1x Dromar, the Banisher
1x Rith, the Awakener
1x Treva, the Renewer
1x Jugan, the Rising Star
1x Keiga, the Tide Star
1x Kokusho, the Evening Star
1x Ryusei, the Falling Star
1x Yosei, the Morning Star
1x Rorix Bladewing
1x Lightning Dragon

TRICKS
2x Captain Sisay
1x "Ach! Hans, Run!"
1x Defense of the Heart
2x Temporal Aperture
1x Eladamri's Call

UTILITY/DEFENSE
1x Collective Restraint
1x Crosis's Charm
1x Darigaaz's Charm
1x Dromar's Charm

MANA
2x Birds of Paradise
3x Rampant Growth
3x Fertile Ground
4x Harrow
1x Sulfurous Springs
1x Karplusan Forest
1x Salt Marsh
1x Shivan Oasis
1x Rith's Grove
1x Urborg Volcano
13x Forest
2x Mountain
1x Swamp
1x Island
1x Plains

I have somehow managed to not ever get Crosis, the Purger, or he would be in here. Bladewing the Risen would also be nice. Anyways, this is a deck I'm very happy with. Its most impressive trick is using Sisay to amp up a Kilnmouth Dragon capable of nuking a player in one shot. However, it is more often victorious in the mid-to-late-game once it has established its mana and starts casting big annoying flier after big annoying flier. More reasonable and elegantly designed decks have simply crumbled before the onslaught, especially with Ach! Hans, Run! in play. Thanks to the amazingly versatile dragon charms, the deck has a way to combat the most dangerous threats without devoting much deck space to it.

The deck has its flaws. Obviously, it is on the slow side and won't stand up to fast swarm or combo decks. It relies on having a diverse collection of mana in play, so land destruction aimed at its off-colors will likely cripple it. Still, it holds up well in casual games and is great for multiplayer, although more Propagandas would greatly improve it in that situation.

This would be a strong design to adapt to Highlander, as well. There's plenty of mana acceleration out there to fill in the gaps. The extra Sisay and Aperture slots would go to Demonic and Vampiric Tutors. Replace a Kilnmouth with a dragon of your choice(Viashivan, for example, is great and barely got cut when I brought in the Kamigawa dragons).

[Moonbeam]

rock on --

I don't know all those cards and don't have time to look them all up, but from what I do know (combined with your description), that's a fun deck!

I've only been playing a year, and honestly, I don't play that much. But I love creating decks and trying them out what I get the chance.

I have a few decks. Some are just standard stuff (white weenie, control, elf, red cheese), but there are a couple I like a lot because they're unique. I don't have a list with me, but my favorite deck is the one I call my "Culling" deck because it's just a bloodbath. It's a Type 1 deck that has four Nevinrall's Disks in it, as well as a slew of Buried Alives. I try to get as many creatures into the graveyards as possible, then whip out my Mortivores and Llurgoyfs, which have power and strength based on the number of creature cards in graveyards. I have a couple enchantments that are based on number of graveyard creatures too, and I put things in the graveyard like Insidious Bookworm, Genesis and Brawn so they benefit me. I know it can be pretty easily beaten by something that just removes graveyards from the game, but it's still a lot of fun to play around with. I'll post the exact cards when I get a chance.

I've been wanting to develop a deck around the four Maros I have as well as a couple Spellbooks I've picked up. Just haven't had a chance to research cards that put a lot of cards in your hand. If you've got any advice on cards that would be good combined with Maro, I'd love to hear about them.

[DrewTheXenocide]

What's with 1-2 per card? Isn't the basic rule of thumb 3-4? That is ufcourse unless you don't have 3-4 o' that card.

I'd post my deck, but I'm too ashamed to show how little work went into it.

[Satans Rubber Duck]

I would post my deck up, but it's basically a modified themed deck. One of the Fifth Dawn ones, it works from having lots of little Artifacts that keep coming back from the grave.

I'm a Magic n00b. Only been paying about one, maybe two months.

[Sanagi]

What's with 1-2 per card? Isn't the basic rule of thumb 3-4? That is ufcourse unless you don't have 3-4 o' that card.

I'd post my deck, but I'm too ashamed to show how little work went into it.
In general it's definitely better to make a deck as consistent as possible and include four copies of all important cards. In this case, I find that the parts are pretty redundant - it doesn't matter what dragon I draw, nor what method I draw to fetch them/put them into play. And I enjoy the variety.

Also, the legendary status of most of the dragons means I don't want to draw duplicate copies.

Though the final improvements I'd make to the deck if I got around to it would follow your suggestion - Another copy each of Sisay and Kilnmouth. Don't know what I'd cut out.

I would post my deck up, but it's basically a modified themed deck. One of the Fifth Dawn ones, it works from having lots of little Artifacts that keep coming back from the grave.

I'm a Magic n00b. Only been paying about one, maybe two months.
That's a great deck to start with, though! Fun and quite strong for a preconstructed deck.

[Sanagi]

"Ach! Hans, Run! It's the Little Girl!"

IMPORTANT CARDS
4x "Ach! Hans, Run!"
4x Oath of Druids
4x Wall of Blossoms
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Tinder Wall
4x Laughing Hyena
2x Temporal Aperture

FUNNY THINGS
1x Llurgoyf
1x Little Girl
1x Richard Garfield
1x Noble Benefactor
1x Veteran Explorer
1x Camel
1x Grave Defiler
1x Wall of Dust
1x Our Market Research (etc.) Elemental
1x Pygmy Hippo
1x Wall of Kelp
1x Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil
1x Joven's Ferrets
1x Angry Mob

LANDS
4x Forbidden Orchard
4x Gemstone Mine
6x Forest
3x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Island
1x Swamp

This is a deck idea that a friend of mine and I were joking about tonight. In order to get your opponent(s) to laugh, and thereby trigger your Laughing Hyenas, use creatures that sound funny when combined with "Ach! Hans, Run!" (http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?url=/global/images/magic/unhinged/Ach_Hans_Run.jpg&name=%E2%80%9CAch![Hans,[Run!%E2%80%9D) Llurgoyf is included to complete the in-joke. (http://gatherer.wizards.com/gathererlookup.asp?set=IceAge&name=lhurgoyf)

If you don't draw "Ach! Hans, Run!" you can always use Oath of Druids to bring out Richard Garfield and go nuts. Oh, and don't forget to use Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil every time you search your deck!

[DrewTheXenocide]

My friend and I created this deck outta some cards I had lying around:

Creatures:
1xWall of Water
1xSage Aven
2xMistform Stalker
2xMistform Shrieker
2xBog Wraith
2x Mistform Dreamer
4xMistform Wall
3xImage Crafter
1xMistform Mutant

Enchantments:
1xCrown of Suspicion
1xScreams of the Damned
1xScavenged Weaponry
2xLevitation
1xMistform Mask

Instants:
1xSpell Blast
1xDeluge
3xCounterspell
1xGhastly Demise
1xSkeletal Scrying
1xSmother
1xDark BAnishing

Sorceries
1xCoercion
1xMind Rot
2xOstracize
1xMutilate
1xPeer Pressure (*)
1xEndemic Plauge (*)
1xRestless DReams
1xMind Sludge

Lands
10xSwamp
10xIsland

Yeah, I know. It doesn't follow the rule of thumb I posted a couple posts back. Oh well, like i said, it was made up of cards lying around. It actually plays really well. I playtested it and beat my friend tiwce in a row. Although it seems like it only works well on a deck that's centered around 1 type or creature.

[Jagatai_Khan]

Well, I only recently got back into it, but I like this game. and I like White decks, since nobody I know seems to like that color. Plus it's all about healing and holy crap and pureness and angels and whatnot. And it has those cute little suns as the mana symbol.

Anyways, what are some good preconstructs I could get? I'm interested in White most of all, and I saw one at the store today called "Life Boost", a 60 card Preconstruct deck. Is it worth getting? Are there any other good preconstructs I could get? They don't necessarily have to be white.

It really needs to be a preconstruct deck, since I don't have the money to just buy the main set and buy boosters until I get enough to make a decent deck. I"m poor.

[Sanagi]

Well, I only recently got back into it, but I like this game. and I like White decks, since nobody I know seems to like that color. Plus it's all about healing and holy crap and pureness and angels and whatnot. And it has those cute little suns as the mana symbol.

Anyways, what are some good preconstructs I could get? I'm interested in White most of all, and I saw one at the store today called "Life Boost", a 60 card Preconstruct deck. Is it worth getting? Are there any other good preconstructs I could get? They don't necessarily have to be white.

It really needs to be a preconstruct deck, since I don't have the money to just buy the main set and buy boosters until I get enough to make a decent deck. I"m poor.
I haven't looked at recent precons too much, but like I said to Satan's Rubber Duck(great handle, by the way) the Fifth Dawn one revolving around cheap artifacts is a great one. I think it's mainly blue with a bit of white.

The official MTG site has decklists for all the precons. Start at the list of all expansion sets (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=magic/products/cardsets), go into whatever set you're interested in and you should find them in there. The nice thing is you can even click on the card names to see what they are, at least in the more recent expansions.

Let's see... Life Boost (http://www.wizards.com/magic/displaythemedeck.asp?set=8e&decknum=3&lang=en) looks pretty weak. Ivory Cup. Healing Salve. These are not good cards. Glorious Anthem is a good rare, but that's about it.

Glancing through some of the recent ones, "Way of the Warrior" (http://www.wizards.com/magic/displaythemedeck.asp?set=chk&decknum=4&lang=en) looks like a good mono-white deck. Lots of good critters in there. The snake theme deck (http://www.wizards.com/magic/displaythemedeck.asp?set=chk&decknum=2&lang=en) is very good, too. A friend of mine played it against me the other night and it was quite formidable and won against one of my non-preconstructed decks.

[DrewTheXenocide]

Well, I only recently got back into it, but I like this game. and I like White decks, since nobody I know seems to like that color. Plus it's all about healing and holy crap and pureness and angels and whatnot. And it has those cute little suns as the mana symbol.

Anyways, what are some good preconstructs I could get? I'm interested in White most of all, and I saw one at the store today called "Life Boost", a 60 card Preconstruct deck. Is it worth getting? Are there any other good preconstructs I could get? They don't necessarily have to be white.

It really needs to be a preconstruct deck, since I don't have the money to just buy the main set and buy boosters until I get enough to make a decent deck. I"m poor.
A kick-ass white preconstructed deck is the 7th edition Armada deck. Tres sweet.

[Jagatai_Khan]

A kick-ass white preconstructed deck is the 7th edition Armada deck. Tres sweet.

Are those still on the shelves? I don't go to comic/game stores, they're full of yucky greasy-haired basement dwellers.

It needs to be something I can get at one of the major bookstores like Hastings, Barnes + Noble, Books A Million, etc. Some normal place like that. (They do carry magic, but only a small selection.)

[Sanagi]

Are those still on the shelves? I don't go to comic/game stores, they're full of yucky greasy-haired basement dwellers.
Well, that's kind of like trying to be a jockey while refusing to ever go into a stable.

It needs to be something I can get at one of the major bookstores like Hastings, Barnes + Noble, Books A Million, etc. Some normal place like that. (They do carry magic, but only a small selection.)
The only comparable alternative is to shop online.

[billdo75]

I was into MTG mainly during Urza Block. I had this fun, casual blue deck built with Horseshoe Crabs and Hermetic Studies, with counterspells for protection (of course). Ah, that deck was fun. Unfortunately, I only had 1 Opposition for that deck. Since Urza, I pretty much stick to playing the championship decks and precon decks. Precon decks are pretty weak, but they're fun.

[DrewTheXenocide]

Are those still on the shelves? I don't go to comic/game stores, they're full of yucky greasy-haired basement dwellers.

It needs to be something I can get at one of the major bookstores like Hastings, Barnes + Noble, Books A Million, etc. Some normal place like that. (They do carry magic, but only a small selection.)

What Sanagi said. heh

Herm, you could look into the preconstructs of eighth edition.

Nice avatar, btw.

[Jagatai_Khan]

Well, that's kind of like trying to be a jockey while refusing to ever go into a stable.
.\

Um, well considering that I've gotten all my RPG books and other geek stuff from mainstream bookstores for freaking ever and it's never been a problem... I think it's more like refusing to go to the shady, by-the-docks, crackhouse stable as opposed to the nice, clean respectable stable.

[Sanagi]

I love cards that make you think about deck-building in new ways, so I had to try making a deck around Monkey Monkey Monkey (http://gatherer.wizards.com/gathererlookup.asp?set=Unhinged&name=monkey_monkey_monkey), although at the moment I only have two(despite it being common, sheesh).

"monkeyS monkeyS monkeyS"

THEME
2x Monkey Monkey Monkey
1x Uktabi Kong

"S"
1x Scavenger Folk
3x Skyshroud Elf
2x Spectral Bears
4x Simian Grunts
3x Squallmonger
3x Serpentine Basilisk
3x Skirk Marauder
3x Spirit Link
1x Seal of Cleansing
1x Sylvan Library
1x Squirrel Farm
1x Saproling Cluster
1x Flock of Rabid Sheep
4x Acorn Harvest

LAND
2x Terminal Moraine
2x Ravaged Highlands
1x Rith's Grove
1x Tinder Farm
12x Forest
4x Mountain
2x Plains


One thing I've learned already is this deck hates Control Magic and Clones, because it has no way of fighting back against its own Monkey Monkey Monkeys except to pray for a Serpentine Basilisk.

[DrewTheXenocide]

Many matches make more madcap monkey mayhem.

Damn straight they do!

[Sanagi]

Sadly, I couldn't find enough good "M" cards to make the deck around MMM's own initials... When I realized that there are abundant "S" token creatures, that became the obvious direction. Not to mention I get to combo an Unhinged card with two Unglued cards(Flock of Rabid Sheep and Squirrel Farm).

[Jagatai_Khan]

Anybody ever played with the "Sky Slam" 8th edition Core deck? Is it any good? They've got it at a local shop here for cheap. It's only a 40 card deck, so I'd have to flesh it out with some more blue cards I'd buy from a buddy.

It seems to be pretty much just flying creatures, most of which can cause the opponent to discard cards. Worth getting?

[Sanagi]

Anybody ever played with the "Sky Slam" 8th edition Core deck? Is it any good? They've got it at a local shop here for cheap. It's only a 40 card deck, so I'd have to flesh it out with some more blue cards I'd buy from a buddy.

It seems to be pretty much just flying creatures, most of which can cause the opponent to discard cards. Worth getting?
Lessee... it's a decent base for a deck. The rares aren't very good, but it's got lots of flying dudes, which can sometimes win games against decks that didn't plan to deal with them. Thieving Magpies are good, but it could use more card drawing, something like Treasure Trove. More counterspells would be good, too. More Air Elementals(or something similar) would help.

In blue decks like this you have to aim for a mid-to-late-game victory because your creatures aren't as good as other colors. Counterspells are vital to this strategy because they let you slow the other guy down and stop major threats from getting through. Decks with this strategy have traditionally splashed white for better fliers like Serra Angel, and removal spells like Disenchant to deal with problem cards that slip by your counterspells.

[Gabriel]

\

Um, well considering that I've gotten all my RPG books and other geek stuff from mainstream bookstores for freaking ever and it's never been a problem... I think it's more like refusing to go to the shady, by-the-docks, crackhouse stable as opposed to the nice, clean respectable stable.

Consider the fact that D&D has been around for about 20 years more than M:tG... plus they're books so they would be in a book store. To get the good selection of cards you have to go to a card store. Besides the only places that really have greasey-haired-basement-dwellers hanging out are places that have tables set out to play on. Find a nice sports card shop, they usually have Magic there and sports fans shower more. :)

I took most of my casual decks apart to fill my binders (I love building my decks out of almost nothing but rares... it intimidates people who have never played against me before ;) )

As for tourny decks, I play Tooth & Nail (with Urza-tron lands), and Affinity. Pretty standard.

[Sanagi]

The spoiler for Betrayers of Kamigawa is coming together on MTGnews.com. One card that sticks out is:

Mirror Gallery
Cost - 5
Artifact
The legend rule does not apply.
It's not surprising to see this after Champions gave us the Brothers Yamazaki. When obvious rule-breaking cards like this get printed, it's always fun to think about the possibilities(compare Eon Hub, for instance).

Sadly, in this case, I know it's not a good card, because I had a deck based around a very similar trick that no longer works, and wasn't all that good in the first place, but was definitely better than Mirror Gallery.
Conspiracy
Cost - 3BB
Enchantment
As Conspiracy comes into play, choose a creature type. Creatures you control and creatures you own that are not in play are of the chosen type.
Before the legend rule revamp that got rid of the legend creature type, you could use this to remove legendary status, as well as open new creature-type possibilities. Consider:

"the clonus horror"
(an obsolete deck)
4x Clone
1x Vesuvan Doppelganger
4x Muscle Sliver
4x Crystalline Sliver
2x Winged Sliver
1x Conspiracy
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Citanul Flute
1x Sliver Queen
1x Dromar, the Banisher
1x Dakkon Blackblade
1x Rubinia Soulsinger
1x Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
2x Creeping Mold
2x Birds of Paradise
4x Harrow
2x Rampant Growth
2x Mana Cylix
2x Elfhame Palace
1x Llanowar Wastes
1x Caves of Koilos
10x Forest
4x Swamp
2x Plains
2x Island
1x Mountain

Admit it, the idea of six flying, untargetable Dakkon Blackblades marching onto the battlefield makes you smile.

Too bad Sliver Overlord didn't exist at the time I made this deck, as it would have been the best use for it.

Oh, and before you ask, Clone doesn't target.

Anyways, one strategy this deck follows which is still useful for Mirror Gallery is the use of Clones rather than multiple copies of legends. If you put four copies of legends in your deck, they will be useless at times when you fail to draw Mirror Gallery or if it is destroyed. This is known as the "Celestial Dawn effect" - deck design which relies too much on a single card in order to function without it. Clones, on the other hand, can still be played to copy your opponents' creatures. This also frees up deck space to follow a toolbox strategy, i.e. tutoring/Citanul Fluting for whatever single card is useful at the time.

Mirror Gallery may not be as good as pre-revamp Conspiracy, but it's still fun to have two copies of the same legend in play. Too bad you can't combine them with Muscle Sliver and Crystalline Sliver any more, but hey, that's the drawback of playing the most complex and ever-changing game in the world.

[DrewTheXenocide]

Huh, on my next trip to the coimic book store, I'm gonna pick up a deck and fat pack from the same set. I was thinking of getting the Mirroden Fat pack and the Bait and Bludgeon deck. I'm really depressed about how little love black is getting recently. Ever since the new boarders came around, there've been like, two mono black preconstructs. ACK! I also might just sneak in a little Unhinged booster, and surprise my friends next time we play.

Any other recommended preconstructs from the Mirrodion set?
(Y'know, this includes stuff from Fifth Dawn and Darkstell)

[Gabriel]

Drew- Check out the green precon from 5th Dawn it has Eternal Witnesses in it. :) Any deck with Witness is a good deck

Sanagi- I would rather use Mirror Gallery than Conspiracy.
Conspiracy: only changes creature types.
Mirror Gallery: does not remove legendary "creature type," it basically removes legendary from ALL PERMANENTS. That includes Tolarian Academy and Gaea's Cradle! :D

[edit]New preview card today: Shining Shoal. Imagine the possibilities!
http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/mtgcom/fcpics/features/af50_shining424478.jpg

Genju of the Realm - BUWGR
Legendary Enchant Land
2: Enchanted Land becomes a legendary 8/12 Spirit creature with trample until end of turn. It's still a land.
When enchanted land is put into a graveyard from play, you may return Genju of the Realm to owner's hand.
Rare

[DrewTheXenocide]

So when Betrayers of Kamigawa first came out, I got the "Dark Devotion" deck which includes such: (list taken from anycraze.com (http://www.anycraze.com/show_product.asp?category=m_&title=Betrayers+of+Kamigawa))

2 Bile Urchin
1 Bloodthirsty Ogre*
3 Takenuma Bleeder
3 Villainous Ogre*
1 Blood Speaker*
2 Scourge of Numai
1 Yukora, the Prisoner
2 Painwracker Oni*
1 Deathcurse Ogre*
3 Hearth Kami*
1 Shinka Gatekeeper
1 Initiate of Blood*
1 Sokenzan Bruiser*
2 Frost Ogre
1 Heartless Hidetsugu
1 Mark of the Oni
2 Oni Possession*
2 Call for Blood
2 Swallowing Plague*
1 Kumano’s Blessing
1 Overblaze
2 Torrent of Stone
14 Swamp*
10 Mountain*

The deck basically consists of Ogres, Demons and a hand ful of spirits (oh my!) for the creatures, and this nifty cool "Arcane" thingy majiggy for sorceries and instants. Some "splice" cards allow a player to combine the effects of one spell to another, without having to actually play it. It's like banding for sorceries and instants! What's the matter with it is that it moves way too slow. Considering the fact the Creatures to the Demons that make said creatuers stronger (the main point of the deck, apparently) ratio is like five: one, or something silly like that. So I added two Aether Flashes (http://www.anycraze.com/showcard_full.asp?id=7ERU172&pp=magic_search) to hold off any annoying smaller creatures my opponent pulls out.

Any other recommendations to make it faster?

Oh, and by the way the new Betrayers of Kamigawa precons are hella fun to play with. The black RAt deck and the Blue Ninja deck both have creatures with "ninjitsu". I'm not sure if this ability has been out since Champions, but it's really nifty. It allows a creature that was declared un-blocked to be switched out in place of a stronger creature that usually has other effects on it for a lower amount than it's regular summoning cost. Tres cool!

Edit: Does anyone happen to know if Aether Flash targets?

[Sanagi]

Aether Flash doesn't target.

I'll look at the deck tomorrow, right now I need to sleep and I know I'll be up forever if I start thinking about Magic!

[Gabriel]

The first thing I would do is take out the Shinka Gatekeeper (that guy really blows!). Maybe you could add a couple of Rend Flesh to the deck. It is creature removal and it is arcane. Frostling is also a good early drop to help you stall until you can get some of your bigger creatures out. I'd also take out a couple of the bad ogres (like the Deathcurse Ogre and the Bloodthirsty Ogre) and replace them with Blood Speakers). Then I would replace the Painwacker Oni with Gutwrencher Oni (I'd rather have to discard a card than sacrafice a creature because I may run out of cards in my hand, but as long as the Painwracker is in play I have a creature to sac).

Hope that helps. If you have more good rare black and red cards let me know. All of my suggestions were for common or uncommons.

[Flawless P]

The Magic Decks Thread

Got decks? Discuss!

Anyone wanting to identify a card mentioned on this thread, consult WotC's Gatherer at http://gatherer.wizards.com/


---------
"Legendary Dragons"

DRAGONS
2x Kilnmouth Dragon
1x Darigaaz, the Igniter
1x Dromar, the Banisher
1x Rith, the Awakener
1x Treva, the Renewer
1x Jugan, the Rising Star
1x Keiga, the Tide Star
1x Kokusho, the Evening Star
1x Ryusei, the Falling Star
1x Yosei, the Morning Star
1x Rorix Bladewing
1x Lightning Dragon

TRICKS
2x Captain Sisay
1x "Ach! Hans, Run!"
1x Defense of the Heart
2x Temporal Aperture
1x Eladamri's Call

UTILITY/DEFENSE
1x Collective Restraint
1x Crosis's Charm
1x Darigaaz's Charm
1x Dromar's Charm

MANA
2x Birds of Paradise
3x Rampant Growth
3x Fertile Ground
4x Harrow
1x Sulfurous Springs
1x Karplusan Forest
1x Salt Marsh
1x Shivan Oasis
1x Rith's Grove
1x Urborg Volcano
13x Forest
2x Mountain
1x Swamp
1x Island
1x Plains

I have somehow managed to not ever get Crosis, the Purger, or he would be in here. Bladewing the Risen would also be nice. Anyways, this is a deck I'm very happy with. Its most impressive trick is using Sisay to amp up a Kilnmouth Dragon capable of nuking a player in one shot. However, it is more often victorious in the mid-to-late-game once it has established its mana and starts casting big annoying flier after big annoying flier. More reasonable and elegantly designed decks have simply crumbled before the onslaught, especially with Ach! Hans, Run! in play. Thanks to the amazingly versatile dragon charms, the deck has a way to combat the most dangerous threats without devoting much deck space to it.

The deck has its flaws. Obviously, it is on the slow side and won't stand up to fast swarm or combo decks. It relies on having a diverse collection of mana in play, so land destruction aimed at its off-colors will likely cripple it. Still, it holds up well in casual games and is great for multiplayer, although more Propagandas would greatly improve it in that situation.

This would be a strong design to adapt to Highlander, as well. There's plenty of mana acceleration out there to fill in the gaps. The extra Sisay and Aperture slots would go to Demonic and Vampiric Tutors. Replace a Kilnmouth with a dragon of your choice(Viashivan, for example, is great and barely got cut when I brought in the Kamigawa dragons).
really I am a Dragon Legend fiend like everytime I bought an invasion pack I got a new DL... I have Crosis Treva, Dromar and 1 other.

[Flawless P]

Mirror Gallery
Cost - 5
Artifact
The legend rule does not apply.

I so made this card up only I called it the cloneing vat.... thats BULL!

[Gabriel]

Here is my current "casual" deck:
Creatures:
3x Meloku the Clouded Mirror
2x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
4x Llanowar Elves (because my Birds are occupied)
1x Khamal, Fist of Krosa
1x Bringer of the Blue Dawn
1x Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
1x Dawnstrider
1x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1x Darksteel Colossus

Spells
4x Accumulated Knowledge
4x Counterspell
2x Crop Rotation
1x Sylvan Scrying
1x Moment's Peace
1x Worldly Tutor
1x Kodama's Reach
1x Rude Awakening

Enchantments and Artifacts
4x Horn of Greed
1x Words of Wilding
1x Future Sight

Land
1x Gaea's Cradle
3x Tropical Island
3x Reflecting Pool
4x City of Brass
7x Island
6x Forest

The Crop Rotation and Sylvan Scrying are just for grabbing the Cradle. Once I have Meloku, Azusa, Cradle in play I can produce huge ammounts of mana which I real like to spend on Khamal's overrun ability. Everything else is just icing on the cake incase the fun combo doesn't work out.

[Sanagi]

Drew, re: Dark Devotion deck: A top-heavy deck in terms of mana costs. There's very little that costs one or two mana and way too much that cost three or more. I'd try to take out creatures in favor of creature destruction or direct damage spells. I wouldn't use Aether Flash as it also comes out too late, but along those lines Pyroclasm or Slice and Dice would be excellent. Some mana acceleration on turn 2 would be great, like Talisman of Indulgence, Fire Diamond, Charcoal Diamond, Mind Stone, etc.

[DrewTheXenocide]

Some mana acceleration on turn 2 would be great, like Talisman of Indulgence, Fire Diamond, Charcoal Diamond, Mind Stone, etc.


I don't get how some of these necessairily work kas manna acceleration though. For example, Fire Diamond costs two to pay, and comes in to play tapped and all it does is add one mountain to your mana pool. Why don't you just play a regular mountain, for free, and comes in untapped?

[Sanagi]

I don't get how some of these necessairily work kas manna acceleration though. For example, Fire Diamond costs two to pay, and comes in to play tapped and all it does is add one mountain to your mana pool. Why don't you just play a regular mountain, for free, and comes in untapped?
You can only play one land a turn, so artifact mana of any kind increases the mana available to you on any turn after you play it. Fire Diamond lets you play something that costs four mana on turn three, five mana on turn four, etc. The Dark Devotion deck's main plan seems to be to play a large-ish creature on turn four or five and win with it, using kill spells to remove blockers. If that creature comes out a turn sooner, your victory also comes one turn faster. That's a big deal.

[DrewTheXenocide]

You can only play one land a turn, so artifact mana of any kind increases the mana available to you on any turn after you play it. Fire Diamond lets you play something that costs four mana on turn three, five mana on turn four, etc. The Dark Devotion deck's main plan seems to be to play a large-ish creature on turn four or five and win with it, using kill spells to remove blockers. If that creature comes out a turn sooner, your victory also comes one turn faster. That's a big deal.


OOHHH!!! Never looked at it that way. Sweet. Gotta pick up some of these artifact lands. Anyway, that was just the precon. I made a buncha tweaks and changes before hand, but I didn't have my deck onhand. Anyhoo, here's the deck with my changes:

Card Name Mana Cost
Takenuma Bleeder 2B Ogre Shaman
Takenuma Bleeder 2B Ogre Shaman
Initiate of Blood 3RR Ogre Shaman
Painwracker Oni 3BB Demon Spirit
Painwracker Oni 3BB Demon Spirit
Bile Urchin B Spirit
Bile Urchin B Spirit
Bile Urchin B Spirit
Frost Ogre 3RR Ogre Warrior
Frost Ogre 3RR Ogre Warrior
Heartless Hidetsugu 3RR Ogre Shaman
Scourge of Numai 3B Demon Spirit
Scourge of Numai 3B Demon Spirit
Yukora, The Prisoner 2BB Demon Spirit
Villainous Ogre 2B Ogre Warrior
Villainous Ogre 2B Ogre Warrior
Blood Speaker 3B Ogre Shaman
Hearth Kami 1R Spirit
Hearth Kami 1R Spirit
Swallowing Plauge XBB Arcane
Swallowing Plauge XBB Arcane
Devouring Greed 2BB Arcane
Horobi's Whisper 1BB Arcane*
Horobi's Whisper 1BB Arcane*
Overblaze 3R Arcane*
Torrent of Stone 3R Arcane*
Torrent of Stone 3R Arcane*
Call for Blood 4B Arcane
Call for Blood 4B Arcane
Aether Flash 2RR
Aether Flash 2RR
Blessing of Leeches 2B
Oni Possesion 2B
Oni Possesion 2B
Genju of the Fens B
Mark of the Oni 2B
14 Swamps
10 Mountains

(It looks kinda weird 'cause I just copied and pasted it from a spreadsheet)

Thanks for all the advice all! Once I tweak my deck with all of the advice I have, I will finally be able to open up tons of cans of whoop-ass! woot woot!

[Gabriel]

It still looks like you have a few too many 4+ casting cost spells. Maybe some Terrors and/or Echoing Decay would help?

[Sanagi]

I keep meaning to add to this thread but I've been busy lately. I've got lots of decks I could talk about... I have like 25 made right now, and probably a dozen old designs worth mentioning.

[yeoman]

I'll have to see if I can dip up and post my Squirrel deck. Amazing sick and powerful.

[Sanagi]

Angel's Trumpet

3x Angel's Trumpet
1x Riptide Mangler
2x Thieving Magpie
2x Waterspout Djinn
4x Propaganda
2x Mana Leak
2x Keep Watch
2x Treasure Hunter
1x Benalish Knight
4x Opal Gargoyle
4x Pacifism
1x Hobble
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Change of Heart
2x Humble
2x Disenchant
2x Afterlife
1x Faerie Conclave
10x Island
13x Plains


Angel's Trumpet is a great card. It changes creature combat fundamentally, forcing creatures to either attack or become a useless liability. It makes attacking an irresistable choice by punishing those creatures who sit on the sidelines. For decks that aren't prepared to deal with it, it can be surprisingly lethal. The fact that it drives the game into action makes it a particularly fun multiplayer card.

The downside of making attack so attractive is obviously that you may be on the other end of that attack. The one-card solution to this is Propaganda(or Windborn Muse), already a great card on its own. But that alone isn't enough. Pacifism is cruel, especially in single-player games where you can use them to nullify most of the threats that appear. Afterlife adds insult to injury. Your opponent plays a creature, taking a point of damage from Angel's Trumpet at the end of his turn. Then on the next turn when he gets to attack with the creature, you kill it and give him a new creature so he gets stung by the Trumpet again. Single points of damage were never so satisfying.

Now, you are going to get hit by your own Trumpet from time to time, there's hardly any getting around that. But you can minimize this by employing creatures that can be played during your opponent's turn(Benalish Knight) or that will most likely not be creatures until your opponent's turn(Opal Gargoyle). Still, it's worth a little pain to get out a Magpie or a Waterspout Djinn.

If you don't draw the Trumpet(or the Tutor), the deck plays as a fairly straightforward creatures & removal formula. Neutralize potential blockers and ride Waterspout Djinn to the victory. It's really better with a Trumpet, though, the creature base isn't that strong here aside from the Djinn and Riptide Mangler.

This deck could stand to see some improvement(hey, I can't fix up all my decks, I wouldn't know where to start). It really needs some multi-lands, preferably ones that don't come into play tapped, like Flooded Strand. It should have a fourth Angel's Trumpet. More Manglers would be good. The Humbles could come out, as they're more of a "rub it in" trick than something that really helps you win. A few more counterspells to protect Propaganda would be smart. Finally, a few copies of Akroma's Vengeance would really complete the deck, allowing you to remove enemy forces too imposing to let run wild with the Trumpet, and cycling when you don't need it.

[Gabriel]

You should put the new white Propagandas in your deck... that would be mean (unless your play group uses a lot of alternate win conditions).

[Sanagi]

Cycle of Violence
4x Llanowar Elves
1x Bloated Toad
1x Yavimaya Elder
3x Spike Feeder
1x Genesis
1x Weatherseed Treefolk
4x Krosan Tusker
3x Invigorating Boon
3x Break Asunder
1x Emcee
3x Noble Templar
1x Rune of Protection: Red
1x Rune of Protection: Green
2x Spirit Cairn
2x Astral Slide
2x Clear
2x Radiant's Judgment
2x Nantuko Monastery
2x Treetop Village
4x Tranquil Thicket
4x Secluded Steppe
2x Blasted Landscape
2x Plains
9x Forest

This is a pretty strong deck. It can play awkwardly when given a bad draw but it has three great things going for it: It contains lots of good cards that interact in strong ways, it can always cycle to find what it needs, and it makes very good use of its mana.

The basic premise is to cycle stuff and get extra effects from it while you set up your hand just the way you want. I intentionally avoided going too far along the path-well-traveled that is Astral Slide but it's too good a card to leave out completely. Invigorating Boon is a heap of fun and tends to be your path to victory. Put the counters on lands or Spike Feeders if you can. Spirit Cairn is less well-known but interacts just fine with cycling to give you little flying dudes. It should be noted that this is the only specific defense against flying that the deck has. I've been considering fixing this flaw; Blinkmoth Nexus would be the rich man's option, Scryb Sprites the poor. My original version of this deck actually used Emerald Dragonfly - points for style, not so much for wins, but it is amusing to make a big green creature with flying and first strike. And that has great artwork.

The deck features cameos by some of green's best creatures - Genesis and Weatherseed Treefolk are the guys to have when you're sick of your big monsters getting killed. Yavimaya Elder and Spike Feeder, on the other hand, know how to die with style. Llanowar Elves need no introduction. And Krosan Tusker may be the best green land-searcher ever, and works nicely with Genesis.

On the white side you've got only Noble Templar, an excellent card that is even better with a stack of +1/+1 counters on it, and the Emcee, who's mostly there for humor value, though it is pretty nice to get 3/3 Spike Feeders for no additional cost.

There's also some land-creatures. Treetop Village is the preferred target for counters since it has trample, but the Nantuko Monastery can be nasty, too, and it won't be any trouble to reach threshold.

This is one of my favorite decks right now. It's not quick or consistent enough to be tournament-worthy but it's great in casual games.

Oh yeah, and it needs dice. Lots of dice.

[Sanagi]

Okay, so I've been screwing around with Yet Another AEther Vortex (http://gatherer.wizards.com/gathererlookup.asp?set=Unhinged&name=yet_another_%C6ther_vortex), one of the coolest and most broken cards in Unhinged(My only complaint is the name... Really, it's funny for about five seconds, and then it's just awkward. So I call it the YAAE Vortex for short[that's pronounced "Yay Vortex"]). I only got my first copy of it in a trade last thursday so I haven't come up with much of a deck yet, but I'm enjoying the attempt. Here's some of the tricks I've come up with so far.

Claws of Gix and Zuran Orb - With the YAAE Vortex in play, Claws of Gix is like an Unfulfilled Desires that gains life instead of costing it. Oh, and it's kind of like a Sneak Attack, too, only much better. Zuran Orb, however, can be even more broken with a series of lands on top of your deck, because you can change those lands into Lotus Petals that you didn't even have to draw. Even better with Dwarven Ruins and such. And it finally, at long last, turns Lotus Vale into Black Lotus. The Orb is more situational, though, and might need a devoted YAAE combo deck to be really good.

Feldon's Cane - Another way to keep from stalling, and it brings back anything you recklessly killed with the Claws.

Orcish Spy - With one of these guys on top of your library, you can do some insane things. He can rearrange himself beneath the other cards, and once you trash those other two cards(with Claws or whatever) he comes right back, untapped, so you can do it again. Also consider the Spy's traditional pal, Soldier of Fortune, for getting out of jams where you can't do anything with the cards. EDIT: Doesn't work! RTFC!

Mana Vault, Grim Monolith, Basalt Monolith - These are great when played off the top of your deck and disposed of with Claws, and they help get the YAAE Vortex out in the first place. Essential.

Mise, Predict, Foreshadow, Ray of Erasure, etc. - These are obviously much better with YAAE Vortex in play, and they work with Orcish Spy, too.

Possible combo deck with Mons's Goblin Waiters, but the 1/2 mana thing makes it too weak otherwise.

Another combo deck with twenty or so Tims?
(http://gatherer.wizards.com/gathererlookup.asp?name=prodigal_sorcerer)
Fling is pretty good when you don't have to draw or pay for the Leviathan you're flinging.

Any thoughts? I might have to buy some cards to get a good deck together, it's too much fun to screw around with.

[Sanagi]

Okay, forget what I said about Orcish Spy. I forgot that the whole reason why it sucks is because you can't rearrange the cards. So use Soothsaying instead, or draw/discard creatures like Merfolk Looter or better yet, Artful Looter.

Add Goblin Sharpshooter to the list of YAAEV/Claws combos, though.

[Briareos]

Anyone wishes to learn how to play lemme know. There are a couple fan made programs out there that let you play over the net.

[Mole_mans_revenge]

Anyone wishes to learn how to play lemme know. There are a couple fan made programs out there that let you play over the net.


i play MTG. Ive been playing for about 4 years now and am pretty good i would say.

[Sanagi]

More on Yet Another Aether Vortex (YAAE Vortex)

The card I was looking for to make this deck work is Sensei's Divining Top. Not only is it a decent card on its own, with the vortex out it can move things in and out of play for one mana, and if it's the top card it can rearrange or draw itself easily, or continually draw/rearrange itself so that you effectively draw a card for every one mana you spend. I don't have any tops, but I proxied some because I wanted to try it out. One of the proxies bears a sloppy rendition of Topman from Megaman 3. Yay.

Here's the moderately less random decklist I'm working with now:

"Topman"
2x YAAE Vortex
4x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Feldon's Cane
2x Claws of Gix
1x Zuran Orb
1x Soldevi Digger
1x Goblin Bombardment
2x Pyromania
2x Mons's Goblin Waiters
1x Soldier of Fortune
2x Goblin Tutor
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
2x Dwarven Scorcher
1x Shock Troops
1x Wall of Fire
2x Wall of Junk
1x Fire Imp
1x Bogardan Firefiend
1x Frazzled Editor
1x Risky Move
1x Lithophage
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Scorched Ruins
1x Mana Vault
1x Basalt Monolith
1x Fire Diamond
1x Keldon Necropolis
1x Shivan Gorge
1x Maze of Shadows
4x Smoldering Crater
2x Forgotten Cave
3x Dwarven Ruins
11x Mountain

Risky Move, Lithophage and Glacial Chasm are there to be manipulated in and out of play at my convenience by the top. I thought Risky Move was particularly amusing - passing control of the top card of my deck to other players? Seriously weird. I threw in a menagerie of creatures to hold the fort while I set this stuff up.

Eventually, the deck can create infinite mana with Scorched Ruins as the only card left in the library(not all that hard to do), Zuran Orb, Soldevi Digger, and the top, though I don't have any particularly good outlet for this(Digger + Waiters + Pyromania works, but is a bit silly). Cinder Elemental would be good.

This version of the deck is actually capable of winning, though it's still awkward and very vulnerable to counterspells... I really should find room for Shunts.

[Sanagi]

Hey, Drew, they're talking about your deck. :)
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/jm96

[Sanagi]

"I Bet You No One Will Read This Deck List"
4x Battle of Wits
1x Thought Lash
1x Richard Garfield, Ph.D.
1x Homarid Spawning Bed
1x Free-for-All
1x Recall
1x Traveler's Cloak
1x Shadow Rift
1x Leap
1x Lingering Mirage
4x Browse
3x Treasure Trove
4x Compulsion
1x Merfolk Looter
1x Cephalid Looter
1x Mesmeric Trance
1x Staff of Domination
1x Emmessi Tome
2x My First Tome
3x Whispers of the Muse
4x Brainstorm
1x Diminishing Returns
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Concentrate
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Bribery
1x Carnivorous Death Parrot
2x Wall of Tears
1x Fog Bank
1x Waterfront Bouncer
3x Man-o-War
2x Time Elemental
2x Vodalian Illusionist
1x Puppeteer
3x Spiny Starfish
1x Skywing Aven
2x Raven Familiar
1x Serrated Biskelion
1x Stronghold Biologist
1x Stronghold Machinist
1x Ambassador Laquatus
2x Zuran Spellcaster
1x Rootwater Hunter
1x Suq'Ata Firewalker
2x Glacial Wall
3x Wall of Air
3x Phantom Monster
4x Keeneye Aven
2x Pendrell Drake
1x Mindless Automaton
1x Johnny, Combo Player
1x Hydromorph Gull
1x Silver Wyvern
1x Illusionary Wall
3x Air Elemental
1x Mahamoti Djinn
3x Shoreline Ranger
1x Thundercloud Elemental
1x Palinchron
3x Flood
1x Twitch
4x Choking Tethers
2x Capsize
1x Boomerang
1x Repulse
3x Undo
2x Ray of Command
1x Ether Well
1x Repel
1x Evacuation
1x Wash Out
3x Frozen Solid
1x Binding Grasp
1x Abduction
2x Control Magic
4x Confiscate
4x Counterspell
3x Miscalculation
3x Memory Lapse
1x Mystic Veil
2x Exclude
2x Forbid
4x Circular Logic
2x Dissipate
1x Deflection
2x Dismiss
1x Spell Counter
4x Sea Scryer
4x Mind Stone
3x Sky Diamond
1x Cephalid Coliseum
3x Lonely Sandbar
4x Remote Isle
1x Crystal Vein
4x Svyelunite Temple
71x Island

Ah, Battle of Wits (http://gatherer.wizards.com/gathererlookup.asp?set=Odyssey&name=battle_of_wits), the card that's broken on the occasion that you actually draw it.

This kind of deck comes with reliability issues built in - you need a ridiculous number of lands to ensure that you draw enough of them, and in the process you open yourself up to a whole new scale of mana screw possibilities. Obviously, you also need a large number of cards that serve interchangeable roles, so that in practice the decklist is more like:

25x counterspells
25x card-drawing things
50x creatures
50x other junk(including Battle of Wits)
100x mana

This simple scheme allows the deck to win a lot of the time simply through the classic scheme of playing solid fliers, countering anything threatening, and drawing lots of cards. Battle of Wits obviously cuts the game shorter, and Richard Garfield and Johnny are about equally as good.

What I love about this deck is the number of underrated cards it uses. Things like Vodalian Illusionist, Homarid Spawning Bed, and good old reliable Phantom Monster - cards that tend to get edged out of decks by more competitive options, now given a chance to shine. I almost want to make 250-card mono-color decks in other colors just for the hell of it.

Not to mention I get to use stupid things like Thought Lash. And Illusionary Wall, what an insane card. The cost is painful, but sometimes it just shuts down the attack phase until you have the game under control.

One thing I've tried to do here is avoid shuffling effects when possible. If you've ever played against a 250-card deck where half the mana is fetch-lands, you'll appreciate this.

[DrewTheXenocide]

I'm not sure whether or not this belongs in the book forum, even though I highly doubt it, but sorries if it does...

Anybody here ever read the actual M:tG books? Are they any good? My friend pointed out to me that the cards actually follow the book continuity and stories, which I find quite cool. And if so, any recommendations on where to start reading?

[GozertheGozarian]

I have a few of them, though they were bought more for the promo cards than anything else.

[Sanagi]

I liked "The Brothers' War," but in general the MTG books are a little too fanfic-ish for my tastes. I haven't tried any of the more recent novels, though, so I can't really talk about them.

The Brothers' War is about Urza and Mishra, how they came to power, and the war between them. Not only is it fun to see the first real storyline in Magic unfold in novel form, I found it to be well-written and the characters interesting.

[Sanagi]

"GHJPQUXZ"

4x Groundskeeper
2x Veteran Explorer
2x Quirion Explorer
2x Zephyr Falcon
3x Hydromorph Guardian
2x Juniper Order Druid
1x Our Market Research Shows That Players Like Really Long Card Names So We Made this Card to Have the Longest Card Name Ever Elemental
1x Azure Drake
2x Quirion Trailblazer
1x Jungle Patrol
2x Zephid
3x Now I Know My ABC's
1x Excavation
3x Phantom Wings
3x Jeweled Amulet
1x Sunstone
2x Constant Mists
3x Dream Cache
1x Archaeological Dig
2x Ancient Spring
2x Jungle Basin
10x Snow-Covered Forest
6x Snow-Covered Island

Recently I picked up a few Now I Know My ABC's (http://gatherer.wizards.com/gathererlookup.asp?set=Unhinged&name=now_i_know_my_abc[s) and knew I had to try to make a deck, despite lacking any copies of the obvious combo card, the card with no name, and having only one Longest Card Name Ever Elemental. At first it seemed a rather unlikely win condition, but three revelations quickly followed which brightened the deck's future.

1. Now I Know My ABC's counts itself. It has eleven unique letters in its name that you will never have to worry about in any deck you build around it. Instead of needing 26 letters to win, you only need 15.

2. Now I Know My ABC's counts lands...

3. ... such as Snow-Covered Lands. Between Now I Know My ABC's, Snow-Covered Island, and Snow-Covered Forest, the only letters I don't have are G, H, J, P, Q, U, X, and Z.

The result is a deck that contains a lot of substandard cards, but is not to be underestimated. Over the weekend it won a multiplayer game, piloted by a friend of mine, thanks in particular to Hydromorph Guardian, which stopped a lightning bolt headed for Quirion Trailblazer.

I loved being able to put Jungle Patrol in a deck at long last.

EDIT: After today, this deck is two for two. Scary.

[DrewTheXenocide]

Savoirs of Kamigawa is out! Anyone try it yet? Good? Not so good?

[Sanagi]

Savoirs of Kamigawa is out! Anyone try it yet? Good? Not so good?
I haven't been buying cards lately...

Just reading the spoiler, it seemed like the power level was pretty high compared to other recent sets. There's a new Fork, this time in blue. The black version of Stampeding Wildebeests screams out for deck design possibilities.

By the way, those looking for wacky cards that will never be printed should read this article. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/af74)

[Sanagi]

Thought I'd point out, for those who don't keep up with this sort of thing, that 9th Edition has some very surprising reprints, mainly Kird Ape and Hypnotic Specter.

See this page (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=magic/expansion/9e) for info and spoilers.

[DrewTheXenocide]

I don't like the new art for Serra Angel. Seventh Edition Serra Angel was sexier.

[Sanagi]

All the angel warrior artwork in Magic just looks the same to me. I stick with the original. (http://gatherer.wizards.com/gathererlookup.asp?set=FourthEdition&name=serra_angel)

[DrewTheXenocide]

This should probably go in the deck thread, but whatever. I'm trying to make a deck off of the blue/white precon from Savior's called "Soratami's Wisdom". It plays off having as many cards in your hand as possible. Anybody know any good beefier creatures that benefit from having a larger hand than the rest?

Oh yeah, and I'd like to keep this deck type 2.

[Sanagi]

This should probably go in the deck thread, but whatever. I'm trying to make a deck off of the blue/white precon from Savior's called "Soratami's Wisdom". It plays off having as many cards in your hand as possible. Anybody know any good beefier creatures that benefit from having a larger hand than the rest?

Oh yeah, and I'd like to keep this deck type 2.
The various maros (http://gatherer.wizards.com/?first=1&last=100&term=*%2F*&Field_PT=on&setfilter=SaviorsofKamigawa&colorfilter=All&typefilter=All&output=summary&sort=name&x=42&y=19) in Saviors should fit the bill.

[Sanagi]

The nearest thing to the original dual lands. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/arcana/887) Read the type line: "Land - Forest Plains." Pretty interesting. It seems they're really pushing the power level on dual lands. These look to be the best duals since at least the Onslaught fetchlands.

[Sanagi]

So the Ravnica spoiler is coming together at MTGnews ( http://www.mtgnews.com ) and it's looking to be a very unusual set. The idea is that there are guilds representing color pairs, and each has its own trademark ability. This means a lot of new abilities in the coming block.

Some notable cards so far:

Hunted Dragon gives your opponent some knight tokens, but it's got haste so it could end the game right away. Could be pretty strong.

Warp World basically blows up the world and replaces it with Eureka-ville.

Elves of Deep Shadow is being reprinted. An old favorite of mine, but that was mainly due to the artwork.

Autochthon Wurm, if I'm reading this correctly, costs fifteen mana but you can tap creatures to reduce the cost.

[movieman7]

Hmmmm, interesting

:rolleyes:

[Gabriel]

There is a new Wall of Blossoms. A 2/5 wall for 1GG that lets you draw a card when it comes into play.
And check out Argus Kos (God, I hope they bring back Lightning Angel!)
http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/mtgcom/fcpics/features/reirav_agruspreview.jpg

[DrewTheXenocide]

Wow, it ain't all that expensive either. Nice.

[Gabriel]

Here is today's preview card:
http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/mtgcom/fcpics/features/mf58_nei9sb9z56dl0v30.jpg

Imagine the possiblities. To save him from dying you can put his draw ability on the stack and then put the top card of your library into your graveyard and return him to your hand. :)

[Sanagi]

I like the blurred colors in the border trim for the new gold cards, but they still don't look as cool as the old gold border. The new one looks too plain.

[DrewTheXenocide]

I don't get it.

[Sanagi]

MTGnews has a bunch of cards now, about two thirds of the set. I'm looking through it right now.

I don't get it.
Basically, you can skip drawing a card to regrow a card with Dredge, but you have to mill yourself for some number of cards.

[Sanagi]

Spoilers for anyone who wants to remain in the dark about this set at the prerelease...

Auratouched Mage - For six mana, this white creature lets you get a creature enchantment out of your deck and put it on him. Pretty impressive with Mythic Proportions(11/11 trample for six mana in white!), although Academy Researchers is still the better combo there.

"Concerted Effort - 2WW
Enchantment
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, if a creature you control has flying, all creatures you control gain flying until end of turn. The same is true for fear, first strike, double strike, landwalk, protection, trample, and vigilance." Wow. I love this card. It's like Sliver World.

There's a 9/9 Leviathan that's sort of like a Nesting Wurm from hell.

Telling Time is an interesting spin on Brainstorm...

I'm waiting for a Transmute card that costs 3UU so it can be used with Battle of Wits. EDIT: I just realized you can use the black card that costs 3BB...

Terraformer is just so wrong.

[Sanagi]

Recollect is Regrowth for one more mana. Surprising, but I suppose Elven Cache was never that playable.

Circu, Dimir Lobotomist is evil.

There's a big milling theme going on here. They seem to be pushing for that to be a viable path to victory. There's some cards that can force opponents to draw cards, too.

Phytohydra. It gets +1/+1 counters instead of taking damage. You will see one of these get huge.

[Sanagi]

"Target creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
Target creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
Target creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn."

Yes, that is the text of a single card.

Woah... Shadow of Doubt is a card-searching hoser. It simply stops anyone from searching libraries for a turn. Weird.

And there's a creature that mills instead of damaging, and gets twice as powerful each time it does it.

"Vulturous Zombie -
Creature - Plant Zombie
Flying
Whenever a card is put into an opponent's graveyard from anywhere, put a +1/+1 counter on Vulturous Zombie.
3/3"
Note "from anywhere."

Whew... This is looking like a very powerful set.

[Gabriel]

OMFG! It's a Juzam Djinn!
Moroii - 2UB
Creature - Vampire
Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 1 life.
4/4
Rare

[Sanagi]

OMFG! It's a Juzam Djinn!
Moroii - 2UB
Creature - Vampire
Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 1 life.
4/4
Rare
It's better. It flies and it doesn't cost a hundred bucks.

I think the vulture one is better, though.

[Gabriel]

I want to try RW in the new type 2 (maybe RBC... block constructed), but I don't think it'll be good enough. It needs Goblin Legionaire and Lightning Angel.
BU & BG are going to be nuts!

[Sanagi]

I