X-Men: Forever - News and Discussion

[Stephen Moreno]

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/7429/xmforev01covcolv2yq2.jpg

So today we got the announcement that Chris Claremont and Tom Grummett are doing a bi-weekly series continuing what Chris Claremont wanted to do after X-Men (vol.2) #3.

What do you expect from this series? From the initial interview here at Newsarama (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/020906-X-Men-Forever.html) it sounds like it could be a no holds bar, edge of your seat action and adventure. It kind of sounds a like a nice stylized 90's continuation of everything we loved about the later years of Chris Claremont's X-Men.

NRAMA: What can readers expect initially from X-Men Forever? Will various aspects of both the old-school "adjectiveless" X-Men and Uncanny X-Men be addressed in a single title?

CC: The readers should take nothing for granted. This iteration of X-Men is different, nothing is guaranteed, their lives are at risk. Actions—decisions, choices—have consequences and those consequences can’t simply be erased. This series will be defined by such an event, and that event will have immediate and profound—and lasting—ramifications on the X-Men as a whole. It’ll strike at the very foundation of their lives, both as superheroes and as human beings. The thing I want readers to be aware of from the start is that they should not expect anything approaching the “same-old, same-old.” I am blazing new trails, I mean to catch the readers by surprise.

So, please share your thoughts and any other news here in this thread.

[Novaya Havoc]

I expect this thread, much like the comic, to be glorious.

But in all the unintended ways.

Or maybe they are intended.

[MartinRedmond]

*submit reply*

[drwho]

I dont quite see how the first 3 issues of that series could even lead to the bad costume designs and other things shown on that cover.

[Beast]

Looking very good so far.

It's the book a lot of us fans have been asking for since he came back to Marvel.

Rogue with Ms. Marvel Powers and Ape Beast are two huge reasons for me to read it.

[darknessatnoon]

I like Baka Gambit.

Is that Wild Child, or does Wolverine get his adamantium ripped out early?

[Stephen Moreno]

I'm curious if Tom Grummett can even keep a monthly schedule, much less a bi-weekly one.

[jarrod]

Should've given him someone like Bachalo or Leonardi, then I could probably be lured into it. But, ugh Grummett...

[Novaya Havoc]

I like Baka Gambit.

Is that Wild Child, or does Wolverine get his adamantium ripped out early?

I am particularly fond of the weird amalgam redesign of Kitty Pryde.

It's like they mixed Shadowcat, Rachel Grey, and NEX SkrullDazzler into one big vomit blender.

[MartinRedmond]

I'm not crazy about the costumes though, Storm's swimsuit sucks. I liked punker Storm best. Not RuPaul Storm. Or at least stick to her classic costume. And there's no unifying color theme for the team except "obnoxious".

[drwho]

I am particularly fond of the weird amalgam redesign of Kitty Pryde.

It's like they mixed Shadowcat, Rachel Grey, and NEX SkrullDazzler into one big vomit blender.

LOL I bet it wont make you vomit as much as the cover to essential dazzler shown

[$5 Milkshake]

I like the pic alright, except the gross Sabertooth-thing in the front there. And I cant decide if that Gambit is awesome or atrocious. Its one of those two options.

[Novaya Havoc]

LOL I bet it wont make you vomit as much as the cover to essential dazzler shown

???!?! WHAT?!

I do not understand.

[MartinRedmond]

Should've given him someone like Leonardi, then I could probably be lured into it.

Leonardi is awesome on Vigilante for DC right now!!! You might miss it cause the covers are by other people and they suck ass so far. But he's as good as he ever was. ie still makes me cry with envy ;____;

[jarrod]

That's Kitty?! It absolutely screams Lois London!

[darknessatnoon]

I like the pic alright, except the gross Sabertooth-thing in the front there. And I cant decide if that Gambit is awesome or atrocious. Its one of those two options.

It is awesomely atrocious, like this comic book will be.

[Joe Franklin]

If that's SABRETOOTH! on that Tom Grummett cover, I'm buying this for sure.:cool:

[MartinRedmond]

I have to agree with Novayana. She looks horrid. Her pantyhose matches Lockheed's color. Her costume is purple and yellow? What is she? Easter? And Kittty needs big hair.

[Novaya Havoc]

That's Kitty?! It absolutely screams Lois London!

Lois London would increase sales on this comic by at least 3,000/mo.

Cat Pryde, in contrast, caused New Exiles to be cancelled, J'Rod.

[alf_to_the_rescue]

I like Baka Gambit.

Is that Wild Child, or does Wolverine get his adamantium ripped out early?

It looks like New Exiles version 2

[MartinRedmond]

That's Kitty?! It absolutely screams Lois London!

Lois needs Farah hair or she can stay in limbo.

[Hi-Fi]

I really like Rogue's hair. It's very grown-up.

I must say I'm curious to see how many drinks she had before putting on that costume, though.

[jarrod]

Lois London would increase sales on this comic by at least 3,000/mo.

Cat Pryde, in contrast, caused New Exiles to be cancelled, J'Rod.
I hate Cat Pryde. It's her fault the White Hot Palace ate Sage. :frown:

[MartinRedmond]

It looks like New Exiles version 2

Obviously, Sage is the white background, it's a continuation. Nothing ever stops with Chris.

[jarrod]

Leonardi is awesome on Vigilante for DC right now!!! You might miss it cause the covers are by other people and they suck ass so far. But he's as good as he ever was. ie still makes me cry with envy ;____;
Ugh, I'm allergic to DC. I want Leonardi back on the Xboox. :(

[Petes Pants]

Um.

I want to cosplay as ForeverGambit.

What does this make me?

[timbox]

I must say I'm curious to see how many drinks she had before putting on that costume, though.

Enough with the Rogue-hate, troll.

[jarrod]

Um.

I want to cosplay as ForeverGambit.

What does this make me?
Even more desirable.

[Henry T.]

I guess I'll check this series out since Jean and Kitty will be in it.

[timbox]

Um.

I want to cosplay as ForeverGambit.

What does this make me?

ForeverAwesome

Gambit's Pants

I can't decide.

[Waterlily]

I really like Rogue's hair. It's very grown-up.

I must say I'm curious to see how many drinks she had before putting on that costume, though.

Not enough.

[Imraith Nimphais]

But for the art...I could have been tempted to pick this up...(and the costumes are hideous...though I do wonder why Storm is in her "current" outfit...with heels).

[creaky]

What is THIS?? Gambit with a fashion sense?? Or did Pete Wisdom kill Remy and steal his stick? God, that would be the best thing ever. In any case, he's HOT.

[Optic Rage!]

What's with the horrible fucking costumes?

This just looks like Exiles - X-Men or some shit.

[Wind Rider]

Ok, I didn't see this pic before my other post...

so no Psylocke then in this book??

and Gambit is looking too cool, thank goodness that silly fushia armor is gone!

and will SOMEBODY please put Storm in another costume???

[Petes Pants]

ForeverAwesome

Gambit's Pants

I can't decide.

Needs more alliteration.

Gambits Gauchos is the only thing I can think of and it's not even accurate.

Maybe I'll abandon pants altogether. Remy's Redshirt can be my sock puppet.

[End of Time]

Those costumes look horrible!

If they're going to continue the nineties theme, they should at least adopt those now-classic costumes. Jean Grey's costume during that time is damn near legendary. What the hell is Rogue wearing?

Just pick up the Jim Lee costumes and give them a costume switch after six issues or so.

I want this to work... but Grummet isn't the artist for me.

[MartinRedmond]

Ok, I didn't see this pic before my other post...

so no Psylocke then in this book??

and Gambit is looking too cool, thank goodness that silly fushia armor is gone!

and will SOMEBODY please put Storm in another costume???

If they're gonna make Storm look refined, they should give her the costume she had in the Bad Karma arc while she was in Egypt. :D

[Henry T.]

Jean's blue/gold costume from the 90s sucked, imho. Most of the artists did not draw it well and it often appeared too bulky and conservative.

I'm glad that Jean has a new Phoenix costume for this series but the purple and red don't really go together very well.

[Stephane Garrelie]

This is the book that will make me buy Marvel again.
Excepted for occasional stuff i had dropped it totaly. Couldn't bear modern Marvel anymore, even bits of it in the work of my favorite writer.

I love the costumes of Rogue, Ororo, Jean & Gambit.
Those of Beast, Kitty & Kurt, though not as good could work well story-wise.
The one of Wildchild/Sabertooth/Idon'tknowho is good. I think it is Sabertooth. But what is he doing here?
I hope we will have Logan (with his full personality, not just the moving body of those last 15+ years) in this book too.

[Red Lotus]

I wonder if he is going do what he originally planned to do with Sinister and Gambit in this book.

[Joe Franklin]

No need to complain, if that's Sabretooth along with Ape Beast, then this just became the best book with X-Men in it's title.:cool:

Here is a quote from Claremont.

Claremont: If you want to focus down to one title, X-Men Forever offers a specific view of the X-Men from a specific point of view. It's totally different from what the other books are doing.

[alf_to_the_rescue]

I wonder if he is going do what he originally planned to do with Sinister and Gambit in this book.

X-men the end - the prequel

[timbox]

I hope CC has read this thread (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=256002). It would make for an excellent over-arching plot in this series.

[Wind Rider]

I'm thinking he's probably going to do a lot of things that he had wanted to do in this book, if he's allowed, of course.

I was really geeked before seeing this pic and after re-reading my X-Men #3 issue again... that rush of nostalgia will do it every time. But, after seeing this pic and the costumes.... (outside of Gambit), I just remembered to be cautious again.

[Bingo!]

Love it.

The 90s were about stunning art. Wonder if Grummett will up the art, or if a new inker can refine the look a bit more.

[Josef F.]

LOL. I am so happy for this series.
I am going to read the shit out of it.

[Prodigy55]

Rogue is HOT.

[HeckBoy]

So this is what GeNext was supposed to be? Not really looking to get any alt-reality titles atm, but I think it would be interesting to at least hear about the "futures" Claremont had wanted for some of the X-Men.

[david r]

David r just fainted!

[Jake V]

Fishtaco's pants just exploded.

[david r]

So today we got the announcement that Chris Claremont and Tom Grummett are doing a bi-weekly series continuing what Chris Claremont wanted to do after X-Men (vol.2) #3.

I think I've died and gone to Heaven!

[Jake V]

what's the over/under on how long this will last? I'll be generous and say 24 issues.

[Prodigy55]

I'm excited for this being just plain classic stuff.
No House of M nonsense, no Dark Reign nonsense!

[alf_to_the_rescue]

what's the over/under on how long this will last? I'll be generous and say 24 issues.

It will get relaunched then, "New X-Men Forever", sales will be boosted.

[Imraith Nimphais]

I'm thinking he's probably going to do a lot of things that he had wanted to do in this book, if he's allowed, of course.

I was really geeked before seeing this pic and after re-reading my X-Men #3 issue again... that rush of nostalgia will do it every time. But, after seeing this pic and the costumes.... (outside of Gambit), I just remembered to be cautious again.

Please, Wind Rider, would you be so kind as to enlighten me on wot happens in X-men # 3?

[david r]

Come on boys, you have Mike Carey, Matt Fraction and Warren Ellis and a whole galaxy of X-Men books to enjoy! This announcement today is something a lot of X-fans have wanted for a long while. Fans from the Jim Lee era. Fans of 1980s X-Men. Fans of Claremont and his classic run. PLEASE DON'T RAIN ON THE FUN! :smile:

[Joe Franklin]

Come on boys, you have Mike Carey, Matt Fraction and Warren Ellis and a whole galaxy of X-Men books to enjoy! This announcement today is something a lot of X-fans have wanted for a long while. Fans from the Jim Lee era. Fans of 1980s X-Men. Fans of Claremont and his classic run. PLEASE DON'T RAIN ON THE FUN! :smile:

It looks like Sabretooth is in the book, so I'm real excited to read this.:cool:

[drwho]

still how can you logically have sabretooth join the team during that time? I dont recall sabes showing any ounce of goodness up till that time. this seems like things will just be developed out of left field.

[alf_to_the_rescue]

still how can you logically have sabretooth join the team during that time?

Your first mistake is thinking there will be logic

[Joe Franklin]

still how can you logically have sabretooth join the team during that time?

I'm going to quote Matt Fraction on this one.

"It's a comic book."

[Jake V]

Come on boys, you have Mike Carey, Matt Fraction and Warren Ellis and a whole galaxy of X-Men books to enjoy! This announcement today is something a lot of X-fans have wanted for a long while. Fans from the Jim Lee era. Fans of 1980s X-Men. Fans of Claremont and his classic run. PLEASE DON'T RAIN ON THE FUN! :smile:

ok fine. I'll leave that to Claremont.

[drwho]

so past continuity except issues 1-3 is going to be thrown out the window to reflect chris's vision? that is what doesnt make sense to me

[Prodigy55]

It will be set in the past.
So dated writing techniques will not be so much dated as classic.

[Stephen Moreno]

what's the over/under on how long this will last? I'll be generous and say 24 issues.

Well if it's bi-weekly, then I can see it easily doing 24, that's a year's worth of stories. Excalibur vol 2 was what 13 issues? NEX was 24 and New Exiles was 18 so I would say 36 issues is about fair.

[drwho]

I kind of think they should of just done a revamped x-men comic about the AOA universe.

[david r]

so past continuity except issues 1-3 is going to be thrown out the window to reflect chris's vision? that is what doesnt make sense to me

No, all issues that came before 1991 are the continuity. This will pick up from the finale of Chris Claremont's original run. And remember, Chris had a vision for the X-Men that was mangled by Marvel and Bob Harras. All this book is doing is showing us Claremont's ambitious plans for the 1990s.

And I've read about those plans. Believe me folks, his plans truly were ambitious!

[drwho]

what reason could you come up with though to have sabretooth join in like the first 5 issues of that series? i for one cant think of any. maybe thats a mix of the early and future storylines?

[Joe Franklin]

so past continuity except issues 1-3 is going to be thrown out the window to reflect chris's vision? that is what doesnt make sense to me

This should answer your question.

Newsarama: Have these plans for the X-Men been laying in wait for 18 years? Or are these all new?

Chris Claremont: Plans never “lie” in wait; they go out for strolls, they get into arguments, they strike up a conversation with other ideas and the next thing you know, they have grandchildren you never saw coming. Sometimes, they find themselves attracted to a different project and make a new life for themselves, while other ideas wander in from parts unknown and take up permanent residence. Sorta like Wisteria Lane. It would be a sad thing if these ideas had been sitting in limbo for 18 years. The world that they—and we—inhabit today is far different from the one that existed in 1991-92. Can you imagine what it would be like if we were all still listening to Marky Mark and watching Kevin Costner run around in green tights? Seriously, though, there are some touchstones with these characters than remain true, regardless. That’s the foundation on which we build.

CC: Coming back to the X-Men is never difficult. Quite the contrary, it’s a true pleasure, like visiting old and dear friends. [X-Men] Forever allows me not just to pick up where I left off, but to show the reader the unexpected. Forever allows me to pick up where I left off with the freedom to take the series in whole new—and unfettered—directions. The characters here are totally up for grabs. All of the presumptions that we’ve gotten used to over time no longer apply; relationships that we’ve come to take for granted are suddenly cast in question.

CC: In both form and substance, the world of this series is very much like that of the standard 616 Marvel Universe. The setting is contemporary. The year is 2009. The original trilogy that frames the start of this series occurs just prior to the events of Forever. From that point on, anything goes. Everything is up for grabs.

[darknessatnoon]

Joe Franklin,

I am excited about this series. Please refrain from quoting senile gobbledy gook and ruining it all for me.

[stillanerd]

While the look of the characters is something to be desired, this is certainly an interesting idea--to have the guy who essentially defined the X-Men for more than a decade write a version of the comic the way he was going to take it had he choose to stay and not undergone the mess it went through during the 90s.

It's also been documented that there's been quite a few abandoned plot Chris Claremont never got around to doing, such as the Dark Wolverine Saga, in which Lady Deathstrike kills Wolverine, and he later resurfaces as an assassin for the Hand. And anyone who has read X-Men: The End knows that Gambit is actually a clone of Cyclops and Mister Sinister, so I wonder if he'll bring that angle to the series?

[$5 Milkshake]

Actually, it seems more Ultimate X-Men 2 than Exiles.

[Prodigy55]

Why are Jean and Rogue wearing dish-washing gloves?

[Joe Franklin]

Joe Franklin,

I am excited about this series. Please refrain from quoting senile gobbledy gook and ruining it all for me.

But it's what I do best around her besides being all over Sabretooth's nutz.:biggrin:

[Josef F.]

I am excited for Claremont's "I HATE HAT I WAS FIRED AND AM BITTER" book.
Maybe it will feature Elias Bogan?

[david r]

what reason could you come up with though to have sabretooth join in like the first 5 issues of that series? i for one cant think of any. maybe thats a mix of the early and future storylines?

I don't have an answer for Sabretooth being involved. I know Wolverine......should I say..... "goes missing"* in Claremont's plans for Logan. Perhaps Sabretooth plays a role in what befalls Logan early on.

Oh boy, the more I think about this. The more I can't wait till May. I have been waiting a dearly LONG time to read these adventures. My waiting has at last come true. :smile:

[Optic Rage!]

You know, i don't want to rain on the parade here but..

I really don't think this is going to be what CC really would have done after X-Men #3, It's basically him going back and making the changes he wants to make now, many years later...its basically more of a reimagination then a continuation.

The first example is the complete costume changes, and Kitty being on the team.

How long untill he kills Scott and makes Storm the leader eh? It's just going to be utter CC fan wank fan fiction.

I guess thats the point tough.

[david r]

CC: In both form and substance, the world of this series is very much like that of the standard 616 Marvel Universe. The setting is contemporary. The year is 2009. The original trilogy that frames the start of this series occurs just prior to the events of Forever. From that point on, anything goes. Everything is up for grabs.

Thank you Joe Franklin for that quote. But what is Claremont mean when he says the "original trilogy"? What trilogy?

[Stephen Moreno]

Why are Jean and Rogue wearing dish-washing gloves?

Because they just got done doing the dishes? They are women.

[david r]

I never realized clothes were so important to X-Men fans. Forget the clothes!! This series could lead to the Shadow King War. Answers to Australia, Gateway, so many damn things left unresolved from his 17 year run. I for one am looking forward to it. :biggrin:

[Prodigy55]

Don't worry david r!
I'm excited for this too!
You are not alone!

[darknessatnoon]

You know, i don't want to rain on the parade here but..

I really don't think this is going to be what CC really would have done after X-Men #3, It's basically him going back and making the changes he wants to make now, many years later...its basically more of a reimagination then a continuation.

The first example is the complete costume changes, and Kitty being on the team.

How long untill he kills Scott and makes Storm the leader eh? It's just going to be utter CC fan wank fan fiction.

I guess thats the point tough.

You are just bitter because there is no Cyclops at all. Claremont understands the reality of the X-Men and knows that Cyclops as leader is fanfic.

[drwho]

Call me crazy but werent people bitching about how cruddy the shadowking is and now im hearing people excited about him appearing in another comic.

[alf_to_the_rescue]

I never realized clothes were so important to X-Men fans. Forget the clothes!! This series could lead to the Shadow King War. Answers to Australia, Gateway, so many damn things left unresolved from his 17 year run. I for one am looking forward to it. :biggrin:

You are right. I am grateful he is getting this book. It means I dont have to drop anything again like I did with Exiles. Its win win.

[Imraith Nimphais]

While the look of the characters is something to be desired, this is certainly an interesting idea--to have the guy who essentially defined the X-Men for more than a decade write a version of the comic the way he was going to take it had he choose to stay and not undergone the mess it went through during the 90s.

It's also been documented that there's been quite a few abandoned plot Chris Claremont never got around to doing, such as the Dark Wolverine Saga, in which Lady Deathstrike kills Wolverine, and he later resurfaces as an assassin for the Hand. And anyone who has read X-Men: The End knows that Gambit is actually a clone of Cyclops and Mister Sinister, so I wonder if he'll bring that angle to the series?

Just so that you know...it's already been done...as for that bit of Gambit factoid...really?..ick...my apologies to you all (esp. you David R.) but this sounds dodgier by the minute.

[xgeek52]

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i get to read what claremont planned before marvel got stupid...

*takes a breath*

seriously i'm a claremont fan but he does have his flaws...but what he did before he left set the stage for some classic stuff...

and yeah it's just a comic book but some of you young ones didn't wait with baited breath to see what he had planned for the mighty mutants...

there will be those who don't care and there will be those who will do the usual cc bashing...

good, bad or indifferent, i'm gonna give the book a shot...

[drwho]

im thinking this is going to end up being chris's current ideas being advertised as old ideas. :tongue:

[Bingo!]

Thank you Joe Franklin for that quote. But what is Claremont mean when he says the "original trilogy"? What trilogy?

I hope each part of the trilogy is featured in giant-sized annual or graphic novel.

[Optic Rage!]

You are just bitter because there is no Cyclops at all. Claremont understands the reality of the X-Men and knows that Cyclops as leader is fanfic.

I always knew you had a warped sense of reality, this confirms it.

[david r]

Don't worry david r!
I'm excited for this too!
You are not alone!

I'm relieved to hear it. I hope some new readers give it a try.

Call me crazy but werent people bitching about how cruddy the shadowking is and now im hearing people excited about him appearing in another comic.


If you read the last two years of Claremont's classic run, the Shadow King was being built up as a BIG secret opponent. As in, "start a war with humans/mutants" kind of big. You'd have to read his last issues but he had big stuff planned with the Shadow King, and far more exciting than what's been done with Amahl Farouk since the early 1990s.

Just so that you know...it's already been done...as for that bit of Gambit factoid...really?..ick...my apologies to you all (esp. you David R.) but this sounds dodgier by the minute.

"Dark Wolverine" has been done. (Great minds think alike, Mark Millar??) But again, Claremont had plans for Logan, Madripoor and the mutants that I hope he addresses in this bi-weekly.

[darknessatnoon]

I always knew you had a warped sense of reality, this confirms it.

LOL, Andy!

Are you excited that Carmen Pryde is still alive?

[stillanerd]

Just so that you know...it's already been done...as for that bit of Gambit factoid...really?..ick...my apologies to you all (esp. you David R.) but this sounds dodgier by the minute.

I figured it was, since some of Claremont's unused ideas ended up being adopted in other stories. Not only did Mark Millar use that idea in the Wolverine comic, but it was also partly utilized when Wolverine "died" (actually a Skrull) and became the new Death for Apocalypse's Horsemen in "The Twelve" story arc. I'm just thinking that it's very likely Claremont is going to kill off Wolverine in this series to make way for Sabretooth to take his place on the team, which I admit I wouldn't be all that keen on.

And yes, since Claremont wrote X-Men: The End, one has to presume this is exactly what his origin for Gambit was all along.

[Stephen Moreno]

I never realized clothes were so important to X-Men fans. Forget the clothes!! This series could lead to the Shadow King War. Answers to Australia, Gateway, so many damn things left unresolved from his 17 year run. I for one am looking forward to it. :biggrin:

The Dark Wolverine Saga is the one that I hated the sound of.

That being said I am curious are we to expect Claremont's style to revamp back to the way he was back in 1991 or are we to expect more things like New Exiles or New Excalibur?

[david r]

I can understand why newer X-fans are scratching their heads. For those not steeped in Claremont's classic run, this may seem no big deal. For those experienced in Claremont's run, (or even the Outback X-Men era ), this bi-weekly is what we've been waiting for.

It's the answer to many people's dreams. And reality is better than dreams.

[alf_to_the_rescue]

If you read the last two years of Claremont's classic run, the Shadow King was being built up as a BIG secret opponent. As in, "start a war with humans/mutants" kind of big. You'd have to read his last issues but he had big stuff planned with the Shadow King, and far more exciting than what's been done with Amahl Farouk since the early 1990s.


Psi war!!!!!!! It was pretty damn good involving the Shadow King and Psylocke!

[$5 Milkshake]

I can understand why newer X-fans are scratching their heads. For those not steeped in Claremont's classic run, this may seem no big deal. For those experienced in Claremont's run, (or even the Outback X-Men era ), this bi-weekly is what we've been waiting for.

It's the answer to many people's dreams. And reality is better than dreams.

The problem is, it doesn't feel real. Its a "What If" story, or an Elseworlds tale or something. None of this actually happened, the franchise moved in a different direction. So at this point it's no better than fanfic.

[darknessatnoon]

Did CC ever have plans for Carmen Pryde?

I want him to become a corrupt accountant for the Kingpin.

His death on Genosha was cheap. It was tragic that Kitty had to see it on tape.

[xgeek52]

*bows to david r*

well said...

[Optic Rage!]

LOL, Andy!

Are you excited that Carmen Pryde is still alive?

Yeah, i was so excited i almost shit myself.

[david r]

The problem is, it doesn't feel real. Its a "What If" story, or an Elseworlds tale or something. None of this actually happened, the franchise moved in a different direction. So at this point it's no better than fanfic.

I understand your argument. My only answer is remember, Claremont had a vision for the X-Men, which he'd been laying out for years. BEFORE Lobdell. Or Fabian or Seagle or Kelly or Grant. I am NOT putting down those other great writers. I'm just saying many fans consider Claremont's 17 year run the seminal run for X-Men. And have waited patiently to see CC's vision play out.

So yes, at the end of the day, it doesn't nullify the 1990s X-Men comics. But it gives us Claremont's original ambitious epic for the mutant world. :smile:

[Imraith Nimphais]

Well...I am not a "newer" x-fan by any stretch of the imagination...but I am still scratching my head...for me, it's not so much about the direction of the characters but more about the art and costumes...sorry Steven Moreno, I just cannot "forget the clothes"...as shallow as that sounds, I really am not feeling it.

[limerick]

Thank you Joe Franklin for that quote. But what is Claremont mean when he says the "original trilogy"? What trilogy?
David,I would guess the trilogy being referred to is X-men #1,2 &3 which were his last issues and which would precede this alternate reality series.

Personally,I'd prefer Claremont to be given a bunch of X-characters not currently featured and seeing what he could do with them in 616.The Mimic,Colossus(whose out of the loop a bit),Rusty Collins--those sort of characters.Give him a bunch of people we like and make him make uslove them like he used to do.

Forget the alternate realities and alternate versions of existing characters.If he goes back to basics and stops trying to undo other writers corruption of what he rightly sees as his characters ,he can be great again.I really believe that despite "New Exiles".

[limerick]

The problem is, it doesn't feel real. Its a "What If" story, or an Elseworlds tale or something. None of this actually happened, the franchise moved in a different direction. So at this point it's no better than fanfic.
Spot on!...

[f4faith]

I understand your argument. My only answer is remember, Claremont had a vision for the X-Men, which he'd been laying out for years. BEFORE Lobdell. Or Fabian or Seagle or Kelly or Grant. I am NOT putting down those other great writers. I'm just saying many fans consider Claremont's 17 year run the seminal run for X-Men. And have waited patiently to see CC's vision play out.

So yes, at the end of the day, it doesn't nullify the 1990s X-Men comics. But it gives us Claremont's original ambitious epic for the mutant world. :smile:

That is not what his interview says though. It says he's going to start writing basically where XM1-3 left off - take those old ideas you are talking about which have now changed and gone off in different directions as they have spun around in his mind for all these years and mixed with the fact that it is now nearly 2 decades later and he's going to write this new alternate story starting at XM3 not his old original epic.

That is not to say it will be bad but it is not going to be a direct story as to what he was originally going to do back in 1990 at the end of XM3. It is something totally new starting from XM3 which explains the new costumes and probably drastic change from the XM Gold and Blue ideas that was started in XM1-3. Shame since the XM Gold and Blue was what drew me in at the time. It's the only time I liked Cyclops.

[Imraith Nimphais]

David,I would guess the trilogy being referred to is X-men #1,2 &3 which were his last issues and which would precede this alternate reality series.

Personally,I'd prefer Claremont to be given a bunch of X-characters not currently featured and seeing what he could do with them in 616.The Mimic,Colossus(whose out of the loop a bit),Rusty Collins--those sort of characters.Give him a bunch of people we like and make him make uslove them like he used to do.

Forget the alternate realities and alternate versions of existing characters.If he goes back to basics and stops trying to undo other writers corruption of what he rightly sees as his characters ,he can be great again.I really believe that despite "New Exiles".

This was wot I was hoping for as well...alas! alak!...however, I am resolved to approach this with some trepidation.:frown:

[Omega Alpha]

I understand your argument. My only answer is remember, Claremont had a vision for the X-Men, which he'd been laying out for years. BEFORE Lobdell. Or Fabian or Seagle or Kelly or Grant. I am NOT putting down those other great writers. I'm just saying many fans consider Claremont's 17 year run the seminal run for X-Men. And have waited patiently to see CC's vision play out.

So yes, at the end of the day, it doesn't nullify the 1990s X-Men comics. But it gives us Claremont's original ambitious epic for the mutant world. :smile:

I think that Claremont's problem, for things I've read about him and what he said himself, is that he just can't... let... go. So, the stories didn't go as he previously intended, so what? Move on. I think he should be trying new stuff, specially non X-men related.

Compare him to PAD, for example: the latter's run in X-factor ended abruptly after 20 issues, and several years later he was given the chance of writing it again. And what did he do? Stuff completely different, even if using one or another old idea. And he also isn't trying to write Hulk only, or only Hulk stories, despite staying on the book on his first run for almost as long as Claremont did in Uncanny, and being arguably as acclaimed.

[limerick]

This was wot I was hoping for as well...alas! alak!...however, I am resolved to approach this with some trepidation.:frown:
I agree--it looks like "New Exiles" repackaged and relaunched

[darknessatnoon]

I wonder if Stevie Hunter will be back? Colossus had tried to kill her very recently.

[XSE Drake]

Why is Matt Murdock dressed like Dracula?

[Wind Rider]

Please, Wind Rider, would you be so kind as to enlighten me on wot happens in X-men # 3?

Quick synopsis -- This the 3rd part in the X-Men's battle against Magneto. In the previous 2 issues, the eventual Blue Team went to stop Magneto, who has raised nuclear weapons out of the ocean, from destroying Genosha. Instead, they were overwhelmed and taken back to Asteroid M/Avalon and brainwashed into that they really want to be there.

So now in this issue "Fallout", Storm & her eventual Gold Team plan strategies to stop Magneto, the Acolytes, and beat the Blue Team, but they don't have much hope. Still, they got to try, so the Gold Team plus Xavier, Forge and Banshee sneak their way to the asteroid via a upgraded "Invisible glider" to attempt the search and rescue and stop Magneto. Meanwhile, the Blue Team is living it up like they are at Club Med -- all except Wolverine who seems to have lost his mid control and is ready for fighting... and Beast notices this. He goes off and discovers Moira Mactaggert is a prisoner in a metal suit of Magneto's design.

We see that Magneto still isn't in the best of health after taking some serious adamantium slicing from Wolverine back in Genosha. Since "Kick" hasn't been invented yet, he's getting a power boost from Fabian Cortez instead who is secretly trying to kill Mags anyway.

The Gold Team arrives and the Blue Team is waiting for them. Beast tattled, of course. Fighting breaks out and and eventually the Blue Team comes to themselves. Moira tries to tell magneto that Cortez is killing him, but Magneto is still bitter over the manipulation that Moira did while he was a baby and isn't hearing her. Acolytes and Mags against the X-Men. Xavier and Magneto dialog their philosophies. Cortez is shown to be a traitor who was really trying to kill Mags. The asteroid takes major damage from some of the nukes going off. Magneto and Xavier dialog philosophies some more while everything is burning up around then. Eventually Magneto is like, "get out of here, I'm staying" and he forces the X-Men back into their invisible glider and seals the hatch. They take off before the asteroid explodes and goes down in a blaze of glory. The assumption is that Magneto and his faithful Acolytes are dead.

Xavier dialogs philosophy some more to the X-Men as they all stand like poster models listening.... They head home.... Classic Claremont story.

It's after this issue that the Blue and Gold teams are official in their separate books, but mainly, #3 was the last issue Claremont wrote for adjectiveless X-Men (I believe).

[Joe Franklin]

im thinking this is going to end up being chris's current ideas being advertised as old ideas. :tongue:

I agree.

It will be some old ideas, mixed with some mostly new ideas from Claremont.

Grummett is not drawing dozens of unused Uncanny X-Men Claremont scripts that Marvel had locked up in a safe from 1991until now afterall.

[darknessatnoon]

Grummett is not drawing dozens of unused Uncanny X-Men Claremont scripts that Marvel had locked up in a safe from 1991until now afterall.

Do you think he's too good for that or something?

[Stephen Moreno]

I think we need to give this book a chance, we're finally gonna get CC to write the X-Men, his X-Men the way he wanted. This is New Exiles alternate versions, this isn't future versions of their kids or some British team he doesn't enjoy writing, it's not editorially mandated, this is his sandbox. This is his home, he built the playground he's about to play in, if anyone knows this time period it's him. I say we give him a chance.

[Joe Franklin]

Do you think he's too good for that or something?

Are you asking if I like Grummett's art style?

If so, I have been a fan of Grummett since he was drawing the Titans in the 1980's.

[Joe Franklin]

I say we give him a chance.

Why would somebody pass up a comic book with Sabretooth in it?:confused:

[Stephen Moreno]

Why would somebody pass up a comic book with Sabretooth in it?:confused:

Because it's Sabertooth.

[Assemble]

Claremonts Exils part two.

[Assemble]

Because it's Sabertooth.

Dang. Boom snap clap.

[KiplingKat]

We see that Magneto still isn't in the best of health after taking some serious adamantium slicing from Wolverine back in Genosha. Since "Kick" hasn't been invented yet, he's getting a power boost from Fabian Cortez instead who is secretly trying to kill Mags anyway.

Actually, Magneto did not know what Cortez was doing at that time. He thought Cortez was a healing him, when in fact all Cortez was doing was jacking him up so much it didn't hurt anymore. Moira saw it, Magneto did not.

It's a minor quibble, I know, but people have tried to use that incident as "Magneto was addicted to Cortez power boosts and therefore Magneto has an addictive personality so writing him as a drug addled idiot is within character", when in fact Magneto had no idea what Cortez was doing to him.

[Wind Rider]

Actually, Magneto did not know what Cortez was doing at that time. He thought Cortez was a healing him, when in fact all Cortez was doing was jacking him up so much it didn't hurt anymore.

It's a minor quibble, but people have tried to use that incident as "Magneto was addicted to Cortez power boosts", when in fact Magneto had no idea what Cortez was doing to him.

I know he thought he was being healed and not addicted to Cortez's powers. I've just always thought the "Kick" concept was funny and was just using it in being funny. :biggrin:

[KiplingKat]

I know he thought he was being healed and not addicted to Cortez's powers. I've just always thought the "Kick" concept was funny and was just using it in being funny. :biggrin:

I know. :smile: I was just clarifying things for folks who hadn't read the issue and might get confused. No criticism intended.

[Blade X]

This looks interesting. I'll definitely be checking this series out.

That being said, there are both pros and cons to this series.

CONS
1. The costumes look like crap.

2. This book is out of continuity and will MOST LIKELY result in MOST comic fans ignoring this book since it "does not count". So this book MIGHT end up not selling well at all.

3. There are just too many damn X-books, and most fans either are sick to death of the X-Men or can't afford to by ALL or MOST of the X-books. This will also hurt sales on this book.

4. Sabretooth being on the team.

5. The bi-weekly schedule is DEFINITELY going to hurt sales on this book.

6. This book runs the risk of becoming more of a "vanity project" for CC's own personal creative vision of the characters, instead of being a project that BEST SERVES the characters and not BREAK THEM.. In a nutshell, CC needs to act as a "caretaker" to these characters to ensure that these characters will be viable for future generations of readers,movie goers,and TV watchers.

7. High expectations on the part of SOME fans may lead to disappointment after they read this series. So don't get your hopes up folks that this book will be the greatest story ever told. Go in reading this book and expecting NOTHING "spectacular" or "groundbreaking". This is just CC writing the X-Men again, so you know what to expect from his writing (both the good and the bad). Trust me, you can enjoy a book better if you lower your expectations.

PROS
1. This series will most likely negate the bad and stupid stories that came after CC's first run of the books (including some bad stories written by CC himself when he later returned to the books). So no more WOLVERINE ORIGINS,the DRACO,Emma and Scott romance,DEADLY GENESIS,Mutant population explosion,Mutant Town,Prof X long lost evil female fetus twin,Wolverine Marrying Viper,black ops X-Force,cat Beast,and Storm/BP marriage.

2. One X-title set in it's own continuity.

3. This just MIGHT be the X-title for those people who haven't been all that happy with everything that has happened in the X-books over the last 10 to 18 years.

4. Even though this is a "what If" kind of story, this is the type of "cold reboot" that should be done with ANY Marvel (or DC) superhero comics that the editors wish to "fix" or return to basics.

5. If (and that's a BIG "IF") this book is successful (in terms of sales), Marvel will do other FOREVER books.

[Prodigy55]

PROS
3. This just MIGHT be the X-title for those people who haven't been all that happy with everything that has happened in the X-books over the last 10 to 18 years.

5. If (and that's a BIG "IF") this book is successful (in terms of sales), Marvel will do other FOREVER books.

While I don't really hate what's happened in the last 10-ish years, it would be nice to see how certain things done differently would change the X-Universe, so I'm going to follow this series.

LOL at #2, because there will probably be a Wolverine: Forever book.
However, I would love to see an Avengers: Forever.

[Omega Alpha]

However, I would love to see an Avengers: Forever.

Dude...


http://www.cardscomicscoins.com/usrimage/cat49.jpg

[darknessatnoon]

Dude...


http://www.cardscomicscoins.com/usrimage/cat49.jpg

Best book ever.

[Prodigy55]

Dude...


http://www.cardscomicscoins.com/usrimage/cat49.jpg

LOL :P
But this looks silly.
Is it any good?

[darknessatnoon]

LOL :P
But this looks silly.
Is it any good?

This post makes me very sad.

[alf_to_the_rescue]

LOL :P
But this looks silly.
Is it any good?

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Leirus]

Best book ever.

With one of my faves. I love Pacheco.

Please, god, if you are here somewhere, let this series be good.

I loved original Claremont´s run. Absolutely. And I have been utterly disappointed one and once again in later years. Please, please, let this be good...

[chastmastr]

I am so, so happy about this series. :) As I mentioned elsewhere, this one, GeNext, and X-Men/Wolverine: First Class (with Exiles too) gives me a nice array of classic-style mutant stories to read. :biggrin:

David

[mattbib]

Sorry, I have no hope for this series, largely because of the art, so I'll be passing.

If it turns out I'm wrong and everyone loves it I may check it out in trade.

[Leirus]

Sorry, I have no hope for this series, largely because of the art, so I'll be passing.

If it turns out I'm wrong and everyone loves it I may check it out in trade.


If this destroys my image of the 80s x-men my earth will be broken

[Valeria Kementari]

Best book ever.

I second that, Avengers Forever it's the Avengers Bible :D

[Prodigy55]

Best book ever.

This post makes me very sad.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With one of my faves. I love Pacheco.

Please, god, if you are here somewhere, let this series be good.

I loved original Claremont´s run. Absolutely. And I have been utterly disappointed one and once again in later years. Please, please, let this be good...

LOL!
I guess everyone liked it then.
I'll look into it.

[darknessatnoon]

I second that, Avengers Forever it's the Avengers Bible :D

It makes the recent stories look like they've been drawn and written by third graders.

[chastmastr]

3. This just MIGHT be the X-title for those people who haven't been all that happy with everything that has happened in the X-books over the last 10 to 18 years.
That's me, though it's actually more since mid-2004. It's all in my sig below, and not a lot has changed regarding that. (I liked Morrison's stories in one way, and Claremont's in another, but I don't like the stuff from Disassembled/Decimation/Civil War/etc. on at all.) So I am very happy to have more stories in the vein that I like. :)

David

[Blade X]

Best book ever.

CORRECTION. ONE of the best books ever.:smile:

[darknessatnoon]

CORRECTION. ONE of the best books ever.:smile:

Shut up, BladeX.

[Omega Alpha]

LOL!
I guess everyone liked it then.
I'll look into it.

Liked it? It's perhaps the best Avengers story ever written! Certainly at least in the top 3.

[Blade X]

LOL :P
But this looks silly.
Is it any good?

HELL YES it's good. No, scratch that, it's GREEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAT.:smile:

[Blade X]

Shut up, BladeX.

CORRECTION,. You meant to say "Shut up BLADE X" (with a space):smile:

[beserkerclaw]

I understand why some people like the idea but im gonna give my Opinion why i personally dont.

Because its a what if title. it doesnt add to the X-Men IMO its Claremonts way to do many thing unfettered by continuity and while thats fine to me there is no point to it, i rather read the continuing evolution of the charactors i love which is what im doing. good luck to though who will get this it just not for me:smile:

[Joe Franklin]

i rather read the continuing evolution of the charactors i love which is what im doing.

This is what the book is about. It's the continuing evolution of the characters you love, but under Claremont's pen as if he never left the X-Men in 1991.

If you didn't read Claremont's 70's-80's X-Men, you problably don't know what the old school X-Men are all about, so I understand your disinterest.

This book is for old school X-Men fans.

[long live jean grey]

Aside from a couple of the costumes, what's not to love?

No hate for Xavier.

No Emma-Scott sex scenes in every issue.

No stupid "Messiah Baby"

No renegade Bishop

No Three-In-One

Grant Morrison= Didn't happen. Which means Jean is alive

Beast isn't a lion.

No House of M

No "No More Mutants. Okay maybe a couple or 198 or maybe more than that."


Basically the X-Men could be fun.

No more "OMG The X-Men are Sooooo Edgy Now. Look they even have a Kill Squad! That's BAD-A!"

Cyclops (hopefully) will no longer be what I like to call "General Kill"

Storm might be an actual participating member of the X-Men.


Basically everything that's going on with the X-Men right now won't be happening in this series. YES!!!

[beserkerclaw]

actully i have read Claremonts run and i liked i was just stating my Opinion not bashing people for likeing it i was just saying i dont like the idea thats all more power to the people who deside to get it:smile:

[Joe Franklin]

actully i have read Claremonts run and i liked i was just stating my Opinion not bashing people for likeing it i was just saying i dont like the idea thats all more power to the people who deside to get it:smile:

I know you weren't bashing my friend, but you said you like to read about the continuing evolution of the X-Men, and this is what this book is all about. You misunderstand the very premise of the book.

[Flâneur]

CORRECTION,. You meant to say "Shut up BLADE X" (with a space):smile:

No, he meant to say 'Shut up, Blade X.'

I love it when someone tries to anal retentively correct someone else but uses less precise grammar. Remember your commas!

[x_goalkeeper]

I am not sure how I will like this series.

It seems like a nice idea for good reading, but for me I can not really afford to buy more titles aside from the ones I am routine in buying.

I may start to read it if everyone else says it is good.. but it is just my thinking at this time :smile:

[Blade X]

No, he meant to say 'Shut up, Blade X.'

I love it when someone tries to anal retentively correct someone else but uses less precise grammar. Remember your commas!

You are correct. However, I wasn't correcting his grammar, I was correcting him mispelling my user name. My user name isn't "BkadeX", it's "Blade X".:smile:

[Flâneur]

You are correct. However, I wasn't correcting his grammar, I was correcting him mispelling my user name. My user name isn't "BkadeX", it's "Blade X".:smile:

I don't believe he said "BkadeX", either.

[Sugarbombz]

I wonder if Cecelia or other post Claremont characters he enjoyed will be in this.

[metalgorgomon]

Newsarama put in some update:

It begins in May 2009 with X-Men Forever Alpha, collecting X-Men Vol. 2 Issues #1-3, plus a new eight-page story. Then X-Men Forever will begin with a new #1 issue in June.

Wonder what the eight page story is about..

[Flâneur]

I wonder if Cecelia or other post Claremont characters he enjoyed will be in this.

Considering that he was restricted in New Exiles, I'm guessing not.

[Deadpooligan]

I spoke to Claremont when he was signing a handful of books for me.

"I'll leave you with a hint.", he said. "Why are there no old mutants?"

I stand there and think about it as he signs one of five X-Men #1 covers. I point to one. "Magneto's pretty old. Holocaust survivor, de-aged sure, but bro's pushing 80 by now."

And he goes, "No no, older than that."

And I said, "There's Apocalypse. Or Selene."

And he says, "Is Apocalypse a mutant...?" with a very cavalier look in his eye.

And Peter David leans over and says. "Yes, yes he is. They established that fact not long after [Louise] Simonson created him."

I'm confused as to the crypticness. Or if what CC's implying makes sense at all.

[Omega Alpha]

This is what the book is about. It's the continuing evolution of the characters you love, but under Claremont's pen as if he never left the X-Men in 1991.

If you didn't read Claremont's 70's-80's X-Men, you problably don't know what the old school X-Men are all about, so I understand your disinterest.

This book is for old school X-Men fans.

But the thing is that this isn't 70's or 80's Claremont writing, but rather 2009 Claremont writing... Plus, from what I've read about his abandoned plots (which he certainly is going to recycle), most of them sounded lame honestly.

[david r]

Claremont's tan. He's rested. He's ready! It's time for the real X-Men story to get going again!! :tongue:

[Sean Whitmore]

I spoke to Claremont when he was signing a handful of books for me.

"I'll leave you with a hint.", he said. "Why are there no old mutants?"

I stand there and think about it as he signs one of five X-Men #1 covers. I point to one. "Magneto's pretty old. Holocaust survivor, de-aged sure, but bro's pushing 80 by now."

And he goes, "No no, older than that."

And I said, "There's Apocalypse. Or Selene."

And he says, "Is Apocalypse a mutant...?" with a very cavalier look in his eye.

And Peter David leans over and says. "Yes, yes he is. They established that fact not long after [Louise] Simonson created him."

I'm confused as to the crypticness. Or if what CC's implying makes sense at all.

Ha! I love this story.

It's like Claremont is a standup comedian saying, "People are so lazy nowadays, I'm surprised they don't just put peanut butter and jelly in the same jar." And Peter David's in the audience shouting back, "They have that now. Smucker's makes it. It's called Goober Grape, it's good."


SEAN

[david r]

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/7429/xmforev01covcolv2yq2.jpg

I'm curious as to Nightcrawler and Kitty Pryde's inclusion here. It was very well established they were Excalibur members back then, and I wonder how it'll be explained them coming over?

Of course, this photo doesn't say this will be the lineup 6 months later. Claremont even said this same thing back then. An ever changing lineup.

[Flâneur]

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/7429/xmforev01covcolv2yq2.jpg

If Sabes is replacing Wolverine, does that mean Jean and Creed are going to hook up in the Dark Sabretooth saga?

[ExodusCloak]

Makes sense considering that the majority of people on the internet pretty much wanted Chris Claremont to stay in a little corner of the MU away from 616 continuity, for obvious reasons I won't be picking it up but if it makes his fans happy then more power to Marvel. I'm happy just as long as he stays in his corner.

Never know though even back then in the 80's he had long dry spells.

[Stephane Garrelie]

I'm pretty sure that Claremont will want to surprise us. So there may be some of his abandonned plots but i think also that he will try to do new stuff, today stories but in his universe. True to the soul of what were his X-Men.
Don't forget how it was back then: No matter when we were, the marvel universe started 10 years ago from "now".
X-Men 3 probably was only a few month before X-Men: Forever.
Which means it now takes place in early 2009 or late 2008, " a few month ago" from June 2009's X-Men: Forever #1

[Grunty]

So they try to give Claremont another book which he can use to show his versions of old X-men stuff?

So this time it's basicly a: "You can start where you left, last time." concept.

I wonder how long this one will last before being canceled again for low sales, one or two years?
Well at least this way they won't ruin a whole series to give him a title.

Also another title set in the90's continuity and it's yet again to early for an appearance by my favorit.
On the other hand considering how he pretends she never existed there wouldn't be a chance for her anyway.

[rwsmith]

C'mon, let Claremont's fans enjoy this. I'm happy for them. It's a win-win in my book, as it gives them something to be excited about so that maybe they'll stop whining and crying about too much Wolverine in the books I actually buy.

[Tilt]

im thinking this is going to end up being chris's current ideas being advertised as old ideas. :tongue:

I am afraid of this...big time.

That is not what his interview says though. It says he's going to start writing basically where XM1-3 left off - take those old ideas you are talking about which have now changed and gone off in different directions as they have spun around in his mind for all these years and mixed with the fact that it is now nearly 2 decades later and he's going to write this new alternate story starting at XM3 not his old original epic.

That is not to say it will be bad but it is not going to be a direct story as to what he was originally going to do back in 1990 at the end of XM3. It is something totally new starting from XM3 which explains the new costumes and probably drastic change from the XM Gold and Blue ideas that was started in XM1-3. Shame since the XM Gold and Blue was what drew me in at the time. It's the only time I liked Cyclops.

I'm feeling the false advertising premise here. Is it new or old, if it's deviating from the old then it is still new, right?


I agree.

It will be some old ideas, mixed with some mostly new ideas from Claremont.

Grummett is not drawing dozens of unused Uncanny X-Men Claremont scripts that Marvel had locked up in a safe from 1991until now afterall.

I wish!! :(


With one of my faves. I love Pacheco.

Please, god, if you are here somewhere, let this series be good.

I loved original Claremont´s run. Absolutely. And I have been utterly disappointed one and once again in later years. Please, please, let this be good...

I'm going to pick it up, despite many reservations, and if I don't love it I'm dropping it.


I'm pretty sure that Claremont will want to surprise us. So there may be some of his abandonned plots but i think also that he will try to do new stuff, today stories but in his universe. True to the soul of what were his X-Men.
Don't forget how it was back then: No matter when we were, the marvel universe started 10 years ago from "now".
X-Men 3 probably was only a few month before X-Men: Forever.
Which means it now takes place in early 2009 or late 2008, " a few month ago" from June 2009's X-Men: Forever #1

Dude, I totally am lost on that time scale thing up there..huh??

But anyways, sometimes his ideas for surprising us really have been seriously unpleasant surprises. I don't want new just for news sake, I want good too. I want satisfying resolutions to long interweaving plot arcs like the old days. I want stories that build on each other and make sense without having to log online and check what he intended us to see in that fight panel that didn't come across because of whatever.

What I don't want is Kitty with that horrible short hair again, I don't want Rogue in a costume that looks a bit too much like Bakka Rogue's vomitus last one. I don't want possessions every issue, or characters being shoehorned into molds that don't fit them because CC just needs a wide-eyed newbie or hard-as-nails warrior woman. I don't want yet another Sabertooth on the x-team story unless it's AOA 'tooth we already have. I mean, I lived through "the glow" stuff, the X-Factor stuff, AOA/Exiles, his time on Rogues team..it's been done, we get it-enough already. What direction is there left to go with that plot? Either he embraces the good for some reason or he is a constant risk and is going to kill them when they let their guard down. What is there left to explore?

Keep in mind, this pre-emptive whining is from one of his long time fans who has read almost every x-thing he's ever put out (not Genext because not one of those characters even remotely appeals to me) and was very let down first by Revolution, than by some of the Uncanny reload issues, then by most of New Excalibur, and then by New Exiles. To be fair I've enjoyed New Exiles quite a bit more than New Excalibur but in a totally b-comic/campy/ironic way, despite what was done to poor Sage through that random sometimes amusing mostly head-scratching run.

Why couldn't he just start out with the blue and gold teams in the costumes they had and then work from there? Start the story off from a place we know understand and remember fondly. An 8 page whatever is not going to fill in the gap (has he learned anything from the 6 month gap that everyone hated?) from #3 to the pic we have seen. I will by this, but I can't say if I'll stick with it.

Claremont has a chance to really do something awesome here...I hope he doesn't screw it up with ego or by trying to be like contemporary comic book writes of today. Part of me thinks this could only work with the rest of the creative team from that time. I mean from the letterers to the editors, to me that is probably what it would take to make this really work. It's not going to feel the same without that same collaboration of thoughts talent and ideas. Just my thoughts so far, but yes this basic idea is appealing to me. The execution is what scares me.

[Beast]

I spoke to Claremont when he was signing a handful of books for me.

"I'll leave you with a hint.", he said. "Why are there no old mutants?"

I stand there and think about it as he signs one of five X-Men #1 covers. I point to one. "Magneto's pretty old. Holocaust survivor, de-aged sure, but bro's pushing 80 by now."

And he goes, "No no, older than that."

And I said, "There's Apocalypse. Or Selene."

And he says, "Is Apocalypse a mutant...?" with a very cavalier look in his eye.

And Peter David leans over and says. "Yes, yes he is. They established that fact not long after [Louise] Simonson created him."

I'm confused as to the crypticness. Or if what CC's implying makes sense at all.
Well, outside of Selene and Apocalypse he does have a point.

So I'm intrigued by what he's cooking up in regard to that aspect.

[Tilt]

Well, outside of Selene and Apocalypse he does have a point.

So I'm intrigued by what he's cooking up in regard to that aspect.
Is he implying that either someone was killing any older born mutants or that something happened that began the mutant births?

[Beast]

Is he implying that either someone was killing any older born mutants or that something happened that began the mutant births?
I think he's going for the mutant births angle. But the other is certainly an option.

If he goes the birth option, it's possible he could be establishing why the mutant X-Gene has evolved so that it doesn't manifest in most cases until puberty. Outside of a few throwbacks like Beast, Nightcrawler, Madrox. Something that PAD touched on a bit in X-Factor.

[Stephane Garrelie]

Dude, I totally am lost on that time scale thing up there..huh??

But anyways, sometimes his ideas for surprising us really have been seriously unpleasant surprises. I don't want new just for news sake, I want good too. I want satisfying resolutions to long interweaving plot arcs like the old days. I want stories that build on each other and make sense without having to log online and check what he intended us to see in that fight panel that didn't come across because of whatever.

What I don't want is Kitty with that horrible short hair again, I don't want Rogue in a costume that looks a bit too much like Bakka Rogue's vomitus last one. I don't want possessions every issue, or characters being shoehorned into molds that don't fit them because CC just needs a wide-eyed newbie or hard-as-nails warrior woman. I don't want yet another Sabertooth on the x-team story unless it's AOA 'tooth we already have. I mean, I lived through "the glow" stuff, the X-Factor stuff, AOA/Exiles, his time on Rogues team..it's been done, we get it-enough already. What direction is there left to go with that plot? Either he embraces the good for some reason or he is a constant risk and is going to kill them when they let their guard down. What is there left to explore?

Keep in mind, this pre-emptive whining is from one of his long time fans who has read almost every x-thing he's ever put out (not Genext because not one of those characters even remotely appeals to me) and was very let down first by Revolution, than by some of the Uncanny reload issues, then by most of New Excalibur, and then by New Exiles. To be fair I've enjoyed New Exiles quite a bit more than New Excalibur but in a totally b-comic/campy/ironic way, despite what was done to poor Sage through that random sometimes amusing mostly head-scratching run.

Why couldn't he just start out with the blue and gold teams in the costumes they had and then work from there? Start the story off from a place we know understand and remember fondly. An 8 page whatever is not going to fill in the gap (has he learned anything from the 6 month gap that everyone hated?) from #3 to the pic we have seen. I will by this, but I can't say if I'll stick with it.

Claremont has a chance to really do something awesome here...I hope he doesn't screw it up with ego or by trying to be like contemporary comic book writes of today. Part of me thinks this could only work with the rest of the creative team from that time. I mean from the letterers to the editors, to me that is probably what it would take to make this really work. It's not going to feel the same without that same collaboration of thoughts talent and ideas. Just my thoughts so far, but yes this basic idea is appealing to me. The execution is what scares me.

I certainly hope he will not try to look like contemporary books.
What i mean is that the story will take place in 2009 and will be about the reality of 2009. Not about the way modern writers write, not about currently in fashion style of stories, just about stories taking place in the world of 2009. The one we live in.
What i am hoping for is classic writing, with the quality of Claremont's 80s work.
This time this is really his universe and his X-Men.
No something changed beyond recognition.
The 10 years thing: A Roy Thomas rule from the 70s; No matter if the story took place in 1974 or 1977, the Marvel universe fictively started 10 years before.

If we applie it here: Stan Lee/Jack Kirby stories now maybe takes place in 1999/2000, Roy Thomas & co from 2001 to 2003, most of Claremont run is maybe supposed to have happened... say... from 2004 to 2008/9 ... X-Men #1-#3 in late 2008 or early 2009. A few month before June 2009 X-Men Forever #1.
At least that is what i suppose.

[SynthesisNY]

Can Grummett keep up with biweekly? I'd love for Claremonet to work with Salvador Larroca again, they inspire each other.

If that's the 8 member team on the cover, the women dominate!

the men (visually) look similar, with the exception of Gambit whose redesign I'm surprisingly liking.

beast and nightcrawler look alike and both have agility
beast and the possible sabretooth look animal like.

I'm hoping he brings back classic Wolverine and Colossus, and don't let the females overdominate.

[Joe Franklin]

Claremont's X-Men Return Forever IGN Interview

http://comics.ign.com/articles/952/952385p1.html

[Novaya Havoc]

Claremont's X-Men Return Forever IGN Interview

http://comics.ign.com/articles/952/952385p1.html

I don't trust Claremont interviews.

I remember when he said Dazzler would be noir in New Excalibur.

I didn't realize "noir" was redefined as "bulldyke." I should consult Oxford for clarity.

[darknessatnoon]

Claremont's X-Men Return Forever IGN Interview

http://comics.ign.com/articles/952/952385p1.html

The Search for Fabian Cortez. I wonder if his sister/ex wife, Maria Pilar Cortez (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=211907), will show up?

[chastmastr]

I do wish this were spinning more out of Fall of the Mutants, when the X-Men had become "legends" after saving the world on TV and apparently dying, X-Factor had "come out" as mutants themselves and had a huge parade in their honor, and the New Mutants had realized the time had come to be the new X-Men. It really looked some new growth and development of the concept had happened then, and I felt a bit cheated that nothing really came of that. (Of course, he might still deal with those issues in this series anyway, I just wasn't happy with the Australia business, with Inferno, etc.)

Still, I am looking forward to this series a LOT. :)

David

[Charybdis4]

I'm definitely going to give this a go, even though the art looks a bit iffy.

There are lots of "plus" points for me:

1) Jean actually back in a series & not just being used as a prop for Emma to make another barbed quip.

2) Ms Marvel Rogue

3) The fact that the Hellions (particularly Tarot & Catseye) are still alive & Emma is on the darkside.

There are a few low points though...

1) The potential that Jubilee will be around....

2) Bishop & his hideous mullet.

the main factor however is......

WILL THIS MEAN THAT KARMA ESCAPES HER FATE OF BEING LOCKED IN THE LAUNDRY ROOM FOR 18 YEARS??????

[Bingo!]

I spoke to Claremont when he was signing a handful of books for me.

"I'll leave you with a hint.", he said. "Why are there no old mutants?"

I stand there and think about it as he signs one of five X-Men #1 covers. I point to one. "Magneto's pretty old. Holocaust survivor, de-aged sure, but bro's pushing 80 by now."

And he goes, "No no, older than that."

And I said, "There's Apocalypse. Or Selene."

And he says, "Is Apocalypse a mutant...?" with a very cavalier look in his eye.

And Peter David leans over and says. "Yes, yes he is. They established that fact not long after [Louise] Simonson created him."

I'm confused as to the crypticness. Or if what CC's implying makes sense at all.
PAD seems to be annoyed with CC's statements at NYCC.
Well, outside of Selene and Apocalypse he does have a point.

So I'm intrigued by what he's cooking up in regard to that aspect.

Selene obviously consumes them. Have you noticed how youthful she's been?

And although its an interesting point, hasn't it been semi-established that mutants are the Earth's defense mechanism to ward off alien threats? I will enjoy seeing where Claremont takes this.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

In theory this SHOULD be the best thing ever. Claremont doing the history of the X-Men in the 90s the way that he wanted. But I suspect that's NOT what we'll be getting here. Looking at that cover image I'm reserving judgement, but feeling very negative.

That really better NOT be Sabretooth.

[psycwave]

This will be the most magnificent X-title to date. I have faith in CC.

[Joe Franklin]

That really better NOT be Sabretooth.

If it's not Sabretooth, then I'm not buying it.:mad:

[Joe Franklin]

CBR News: Can you run down the lineup for us, please?

Claremont: Charles Xavier, Nicholas Fury, Scott Summers, Jean Grey, Hank McCoy, Kurt Wagner, Kitty Pryde, Anna Raven, Remy LeBeau and two characters who must, for the present, remain surprises.


Surprise characters, Storm and Sabretooth?:confused:

[The Sword Is Drawn]

If it's not Sabretooth, then I'm not buying it.:mad:

It's not that I dislike Sabretooth, Joe. It's that if that is Creed he's been modelled into BEING Wolverine again. And I hate that more than words. Creed should BE Creed. Not a placeholder for anybody else.

[Bingo!]

If it's not Sabretooth, then I'm not buying it.:mad:

Wildchild?

And ouch. If that's the promotional art for X-Men Forever, I'll pass. This looks like New Exiles Unimagined.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Wildchild?

And ouch. If that's the promotional art for X-Men Forever, I'll pass. This looks like New Exiles Unimagined.

That's just Grummett's art style. Some love it others hate it.

[Joe Franklin]

I'm glad Claremont is using Nick Fury in this book. Nick is a gun totin b@dass.

[Joe Franklin]

And ouch. If that's the promotional art for X-Men Forever, I'll pass. This looks like New Exiles Unimagined.

Well, Grummett worked on Exiles with Claremont afterall.:wink:

http://www.emeraldcitycomics.com/uploaded_images/newexiles-777495.jpg

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Well, Grummett worked on Exiles with Claremont afterall.:wink:

http://www.emeraldcitycomics.com/uploaded_images/newexiles-777495.jpg

Ah, the now infamous Cat 'doe-eyed-take-me-from-behind' artwork...:rolleyes:

It's seems so long ago (That I dropped New Exiles).

[Joe Franklin]

Ah, the now infamous Cat 'doe-eyed-take-me-from-behind' artwork...:rolleyes:



Sabretooth was about to, but he settled for Psylocke instead.:biggrin:

[Maestro]

hey, I want to see the 90's costumes return!! and Wolverine, c'mon

[Bingo!]

Well, Grummett worked on Exiles with Claremont afterall.:wink:


I know. It just won't look like something new. If there was a different artist, I would be more excited.

[darknessatnoon]

Ah, the now infamous Cat 'doe-eyed-take-me-from-behind' artwork...:rolleyes:

It's seems so long ago (That I dropped New Exiles).

She's decided that this is the perfect spot for her grave.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

She's decided that this is the perfect spot for her grave.

Couldn't agree more...

[Tilt]

CBR News: Can you run down the lineup for us, please?

Claremont: Charles Xavier, Nicholas Fury, Scott Summers, Jean Grey, Hank McCoy, Kurt Wagner, Kitty Pryde, Anna Raven, Remy LeBeau and two characters who must, for the present, remain surprises.


Surprise characters, Storm and Sabretooth?:confused:

Yeah, weird...and no mention of Colossus either. Who else is missing in the usual suspects from back then..Iceman, Archangel, Psylocke, Jubilee, Bishop, the missing Excalibur characters, all of X-Factor and X-Force..and the scattered leftover New Mutants.

[Joe Franklin]

Here is some more info from a Wizard Magazine Claremont interview.

WIZARD: Is X-Men Forever going to focus on solely the Blue Team of characters depicted in those first three issues of X-Men?

CLAREMONT: There is no Blue Team and no Gold Team. We are focusing in on a group of characters who are defined by the circumstances and situation that the X-Men find themselves in. They are getting a new regular member of the team, a sort of quasi-government figure by the name of Nick Fury.

WIZARD: Wow! He was actually in the first three issues of X-Men when they came out.

CLAREMONT: And, oddly enough, he's sticking around! A guy that looks like he's going to live forever could be considered a quasi-mutant. But, the point is that the X-Men's relationship with the world is about to change markedly. The X-Men got involved in a situation where Magneto became a nuclear power and threatened to use those nukes from orbit. The reality exists that if he could do it, anyone else could do it. One might be able to fudge things in the world of 1991 and say that terrorists that threaten the safety of the world don't get away with it...but they do. That's no longer a valid argument today. You have a world which has just seen Magneto and a team of mutants steal an entire nuclear submarine's payload of nuclear missiles, establish himself as an orbital nuclear power, threaten to use those missiles and then get defeated by the X-Men. The premise that we're starting with is that the great powers of the world are probably not going to stand for that anymore.

WIZARD: A couple of characters you created towards the end of your original run on Uncanny, like Gambit, have had origins implemented that differ from your original intentions. Are these original back stories going to appear now?

CLAREMONT: The Gambit in X-Men Forever is the Gambit who was in Uncanny up to #278 and X-Men #1 through #3. He's technically not even an official X-Man. He's just been hanging around for a bunch of weeks and, as we establish in the preview, he's not even sure he wants to stay. He's playing it by ear. Circumstances will arise that may make up his mind for him, but everything is considerably more fungible. Nothing in this is going to be like what you're used to seeing.

[mikeb]

CBR News: Can you run down the lineup for us, please?

Claremont: Charles Xavier, Nicholas Fury, Scott Summers, Jean Grey, Hank McCoy, Kurt Wagner, Kitty Pryde, Anna Raven, Remy LeBeau and two characters who must, for the present, remain surprises.


Surprise characters, Storm and Sabretooth?:confused:

Something odd about that list: no codenames.Also from what I remember, Rogue did not use the name "Anna Raven" until the very late 1990's.Is Mr. Claremont going to reveal Rogue's real name is Anna Marie Raven?:confused: In Rogue's short lived 2005 solo series it revealed her real first and middle was Anna Marie but no last name was given...:smile:

[darknessatnoon]

Something odd about that list: no codenames.Also from what I remember, Rogue did not use the name "Anna Raven" until the very late 1990's.Is Mr. Claremont going to reveal Rogue's real name is Anna Marie Raven?:confused: In Rogue's short lived 2005 solo series it revealed her real first and middle was Anna Marie but no last name was given...:smile:

Claremont will never acknowledge the "Marie" as that was not the name he wanted for her.

[Blade X]

I don't believe he said "BkadeX", either.

And you would be wrong. Go read his post if you don't believe me.

[chastmastr]

Maybe in this continuity Logan finally ends up with Mariko after all... fingers crossed...

[Stephane Garrelie]

Grummett is an excellent artist and i'm very happy with that choice.
Now i doubt he will be abble to do 2 issues a month, so there certainly will be other artists for the story-arcs he will not draw.

A few i'ld like:
Rick Leonardi
Gerry Bingham
Bill Sienkievicz
Ryan Sook
Ron Lim
Bob Layton
John Romita Jr
Daniel Accuna
The guy that draws X-Force.
Ron Frenz
Pat Broderick
etc....

[Dusty.]

Honestly, who's the person who decided to make this bi weekly? It will be the death of this series, and should be the end of whoever's career that made such a dumb decision AGAIN. How'd that work out for New Exiles?

Claremont was doing fine on his last run on Uncanny X-Men, especially when Alan Davis was the artist. Who has done better?

I don't see success here. I'll check it out, but I don't plan on buying a bi-weekly series with mediocre art on the issues that Grummett doesn't draw, which will be about half. And while Grummett is good, there are a long list of better artists ahead of him.

[stillanerd]

CBR News: Can you run down the lineup for us, please?

Claremont: Charles Xavier, Nicholas Fury, Scott Summers, Jean Grey, Hank McCoy, Kurt Wagner, Kitty Pryde, Anna Raven, Remy LeBeau and two characters who must, for the present, remain surprises.


Surprise characters, Storm and Sabretooth?:confused:

I know Nick Fury had a big role in X-Men vol. 2 #1 -3 in asking for the X-Men's help, but if Claremont is suggesting that Fury is actually one of the original mutants because of his longevity? I don't know about that. Maybe it will be, more or less, the X-Men become is secret black ops mutant squad under SHIELD or something.

Yeah, weird...and no mention of Colossus either. Who else is missing in the usual suspects from back then..Iceman, Archangel, Psylocke, Jubilee, Bishop, the missing Excalibur characters, all of X-Factor and X-Force..and the scattered leftover New Mutants.

Well, Bishop, IIRC, came after Claremont left, so he probably won't even make an appearance in this series. And notice also there's no mention of Logan, either.

Maybe in this continuity Logan finally ends up with Mariko after all... fingers crossed...

Actually, if his original Dark Wolverine saga was anything to go by, Logan and Jean end up being lovers after she tries to help him turn back to being a good guy via her telepathic powers. Which, as a consequence, causes her psychic rapport with Scott to sever completely and allowing herself to have one with Logan.

[Blade X]

But the thing is that this isn't 70's or 80's Claremont writing, but rather 2009 Claremont writing...

.........who is writing pretty much the exact same way as he did back in the 70's and 80's (except he's less wordy now).

Like I said in another thread, CC's writing style hasn't changed, the tastes of many (NOT ALL) older fans have changed.

[Blade X]

Well, outside of Selene and Apocalypse he does have a point.

So I'm intrigued by what he's cooking up in regard to that aspect.

Wolverine,Sabretooth,Mystique,Destiny,the Externals,and Namor are pretty old. There is also that hidden group of mutants from X-MEN HIDDEN YEARS.

[Sean Whitmore]

Maybe in this continuity Logan finally ends up with Mariko after all... fingers crossed...

That's an interesting thought.


Wolverine,Sabretooth,Mystique,Destiny,the Externals,and Namor are pretty old. There is also that hidden group of mutants from X-MEN HIDDEN YEARS.

Yeah, when you have to start ignoring all these examples for it to work, CC's point starts to get a little muddled.


SEAN

[Hi-Fi]

A Sean Whitmore appearance! X-Men Forever really is big news.

[Sean Whitmore]

A Sean Whitmore appearance! X-Men Forever really is big news.

I must admit, as much as I wanna goof on it (because come ON), I'm also mighty curious.


SEAN

[Prodigy55]

I will be all over this series.

I'm not even joking about this.
I'm geniuinely excited.

[Bronze Badger]

You couldn't pay me to read this book.

[alf_to_the_rescue]

I will be all over this series.

I'm not even joking about this.
I'm geniuinely excited.

Remember to wipe it down after you've been all over it. That is good hygiene.

[SynthesisNY]

Speculations on how Sabretooth could become an X-Man?

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Remember to wipe it down after you've been all over it. That is good hygiene.

Although the page quality will never quite be the same...

[Joe Franklin]

Honestly, who's the person who decided to make this bi weekly? It will be the death of this series

Sadly, I agree.:frown:

The bi-weekly schedule will lead to many cheap craptacular no name artist fill-ins, which leads to sales figures around 20K per issue, which leads to not published very long.

People don't buy fringe comic books, with low quality no name artists, in today's crowded market.

[B. Kuwanger]

If a character is at risk and that character dies, that character is dead, now and forever. And we make that clear right off the bat, if for no other reason than that the preview begins with a memorial service for Magneto.

He is indeed dead. I killed him – he stays dead.

Changed my mind, I'm not so optimistic.

[Blade X]

Maybe that's not Sabretooth, but is the kid from the 2nd EXCALIBUR series (the Genoshia series) who had super strength and agility and razor sharp claws.

[Kalen O.]

Originally Posted by Chris Claremont
If a character is at risk and that character dies, that character is dead, now and forever. And we make that clear right off the bat, if for no other reason than that the preview begins with a memorial service for Magneto.

He is indeed dead. I killed him – he stays dead.

Aaaaaaaaaand there's my problem with Claremont. That doesn't read as a little bitter or at least passive aggressive to anyone else?

Its like he's never acknowledged that he did WORK FOR HIRE on X-Men. It wasn't a creator owned property of his. He was always intended to be just one writer of many. Other peoples' contributions to the franchise are still every bit as valid as his, whether they fit in his grand plan or not, and he just does not seem to get this.

If you don't want people screwing with the ideas you put forward, don't use them in a work for hire project. That's the nature of the business.

[B. Kuwanger]

Yeah, before I read the IGN interview, I'd already had a picture in my head of Jean and Cyclops flying off into space. Probably with Wolverine.

[Beast]

Wolverine,Sabretooth,Mystique,Destiny,the Externals,and Namor are pretty old. There is also that hidden group of mutants from X-MEN HIDDEN YEARS.
Well, he alread said not counting Magneto.
And this is before those rveeals about a lot of those folks happened.
Especially since the whole Wolverine/Sabretooth birthday thing is still in play.

[Blade X]

Aaaaaaaaaand there's my problem with Claremont. That doesn't read as a little bitter or at least passive aggressive to anyone else?


That didn't sound bitter to me. However, it did sound more like he was more interested in leaving "his mark" on the X-Men instead of acting like a TEMPORARY CARETAKER for the characters (which is what ALL work for hire creators are SUPPOSED to be). It's this type of mentality that has contributed to screwing up many Marvel and DC superhero characters/titles. That being said, this is a type of "WHAT IF" title, so it is OK for CC to leave his "mark" on these characters (although I hope he will think more long term then that).

[Josef F.]

This book is sounding better and better.

[david r]

CLAREMONT: And, oddly enough, he's sticking around! A guy that looks like he's going to live forever could be considered a quasi-mutant. But, the point is that the X-Men's relationship with the world is about to change markedly. The X-Men got involved in a situation where Magneto became a nuclear power and threatened to use those nukes from orbit. The reality exists that if he could do it, anyone else could do it. One might be able to fudge things in the world of 1991 and say that terrorists that threaten the safety of the world don't get away with it...but they do. That's no longer a valid argument today. You have a world which has just seen Magneto and a team of mutants steal an entire nuclear submarine's payload of nuclear missiles, establish himself as an orbital nuclear power, threaten to use those missiles and then get defeated by the X-Men. The premise that we're starting with is that the great powers of the world are probably not going to stand for that anymore.


First of all, thank you Joe Franklin for all the interviews. :smile: Okay folks, I judge from what Chris Claremont has divulged, his premise here is the governments of the world (Russia, India, China and the United States) are going to come down HARD on mutants. If you reread X-Men #1-3 you can see the seeds being planted for this. Magneto steals those nuclear bombs, detonates one over Soviet airspace (!!!) and the X-Men saved the day.

Except........as Claremont states in these interviews, there are repercussions. My guess is: we're gonna see a worldwide manhunt for mutants, launched by the human governments of the world. Something we've never seen before, not even in Operation Zero Tolerance. This does tie into Claremont's original plans for Uncanny X-Men. And the villain stoking all this anti-mutant mayhem will be a certain *shadowy* nemesis.

[Kalen O.]

That didn't sound bitter to me. However, it did sound more like he was more interested in leaving "his mark" on the X-Men instead of acting like a TEMPORARY CARETAKER for the characters (which is what ALL work for hire creators are SUPPOSED to be). It's this type of mentality that has contributed to screwing up many Marvel and DC superhero characters/titles. That being said, this is a type of "WHAT IF" title, so it is OK for CC to leave his "mark" on these characters (although I hope he will think more long term then that).

Well right. I was referring to the fact that he'd intended for Magneto to actually die in Avalon's crash and stay dead, and it sounded like he was being pissy about Lobdell bringing him back later. It read as 'I killed him - he stays dead.'

*Shrugs* But yeah. I have no problem with him doing what he wants in this book, I just dislike how he comes off (to me) as acting like his X-Men stories are the only worthwhile ones.

[Flâneur]

Wolverine,Sabretooth,Mystique,Destiny,the Externals,and Namor are pretty old. There is also that hidden group of mutants from X-MEN HIDDEN YEARS.

This is Claremont continuity only so all of that can be ignored at will.

[Flâneur]

Selene obviously consumes them. Have you noticed how youthful she's been?

You know, that's probably exactly it. She is the mutant that Claremont established as old while the others weren't established as immortal in the CC initial Uncanny run. She's also a favourite villain of his.

[That JonoGuy]

I'm still a bit confused as to the time frame this book will take place in. From what I have read it seems to me that this book isn't set in continuity from issues 1 to 3, but those issues are kind of an introduction to the X-Men in this new universe.

I was bit skeptical about this book, but after reading a few interviews it seems like this will certainly be something to look at. I like that he would have no problems killing, maiming or using any other such tortures on the characters. It's about time to see the X-Men live with some consequences.

[That JonoGuy]

Well right. I was referring to the fact that he'd intended for Magneto to actually die in Avalon's crash and stay dead, and it sounded like he was being pissy about Lobdell bringing him back later. It read as 'I killed him - he stays dead.'

*Shrugs* But yeah. I have no problem with him doing what he wants in this book, I just dislike how he comes off (to me) as acting like his X-Men stories are the only worthwhile ones.

I find it funny that he is now all about the dead staying dead. Where was this when he killed, then brought Psylocke back to life.

[passer-by]

Claremont has a chance to really do something awesome here...I hope he doesn't screw it up with ego or by trying to be like contemporary comic book writes of today. Part of me thinks this could only work with the rest of the creative team from that time. I mean from the letterers to the editors, to me that is probably what it would take to make this really work. It's not going to feel the same without that same collaboration of thoughts talent and ideas. Just my thoughts so far, but yes this basic idea is appealing to me. The execution is what scares me.My thoughts exactly. I'll get at least the first trade, because I'm pretty nostalgic of CC's first run - and I'd rather forget the rest of his X-Men stories post-1991.

And I don't care about continuity. If the book is as good as the 1976-1991 run, that will be MY X-Men continuity. Possibly coupled with that New Mutants book coming out now.

Wonder what his take on The Twelve storyline could be. He had been preparing it for quite some time in the late 80s.

I'll take a "What If... Chris Claremont had never left the X-Men book?" over almost everything written from 1991 onwards. But again, IF this book is written by the "good" Claremont and not by his evil twin that came back in 2000. :biggrin:

This may be the book that will get me back to collecting the X-Men. Very good editorial decision. Marvel wins either way. If the sales are high, they'll have found something to keep CC busy with and they'll get praise from fans like me. If the sales are low, they'll be entitled to say, "OK, old-school-CC fans, we gave it a try. Didn't work. Sorry. We did all we could. Now stop whining about us not giving CC a chance to write what he's best at. Next item on the agenda, please".


EDIT: And it'll be interesting to see if CC takes into account his X-Men The End story. If yes, then Wolverine should be on the team.

[passer-by]

Yeah, weird...and no mention of Colossus either. Who else is missing in the usual suspects from back then..Iceman, Archangel, Psylocke, Jubilee, Bishop, the missing Excalibur characters, all of X-Factor and X-Force..and the scattered leftover New Mutants.Nothing says that the starting line-up will remain unchanged. If the book sells well, we could see some more names.

[B. Kuwanger]

Ah, that's not so bad, then. I didn't know Mags was supposed to die in his old story, so it's not as weird as I thought.

This is Claremont continuity only so all of that can be ignored at will.

Weren't both Namor and Apocalypse both known as really old mutants while CC was writing? I know Namor was.

[SkinFromBone]

I don't want to be interested in buying this, but I am. Kind of.

[Flâneur]

Weren't both Namor and Apocalypse both known as really old mutants while CC was writing? I know Namor was.
Apocalypse was established as a mutant during the Uncanny run by not in the Uncanny run so I doubt CC feels any great obligation to go with it. I also don't know if his ancient Egypt age thing was thoroughly covered until later.

I imagine CC would also just say Namor isn't really a mutant. Not CC established so not something he'll hold himself to since he's treating it as if it was a creator owned piece.

[darknessatnoon]

First of all, thank you Joe Franklin for all the interviews. :smile: Okay folks, I judge from what Chris Claremont has divulged, his premise here is the governments of the world (Russia, India, China and the United States) are going to come down HARD on mutants. If you reread X-Men #1-3 you can see the seeds being planted for this. Magneto steals those nuclear bombs, detonates one over Soviet airspace (!!!) and the X-Men saved the day.

Except........as Claremont states in these interviews, there are repercussions. My guess is: we're gonna see a worldwide manhunt for mutants, launched by the human governments of the world. Something we've never seen before, not even in Operation Zero Tolerance. This does tie into Claremont's original plans for Uncanny X-Men. And the villain stoking all this anti-mutant mayhem will be a certain *shadowy* nemesis.

Oh you mean Mister Sinister, who is an evil 10 year old boy? Yeah, heard it all before. Snore!

I seriously hope he's planning on ditching some of those "unfinished" plot ideas that people have been talking about for years, otherwise this book is going surpass all his recent absurdity. And I hope that Nick Fury as a quasi-mutant comment was a joke. Nick Fury is a drug addict.

[Blade X]

Well right. I was referring to the fact that he'd intended for Magneto to actually die in Avalon's crash and stay dead, and it sounded like he was being pissy about Lobdell bringing him back later. It read as 'I killed him - he stays dead.'

I don't think he was being "pissy" about Lobdell bringing Magneto back to life, since that was MOST LIKELY and editorial and/or marketing decision. Heck, he even said that none of these characters will actual die in the regular continuity.

I think it's also a safe bet that if (and that's a big "IF") this book becomes a huge sales hit and out sells the 3 main core X-titles, there's no way in hell Marvel is going to allow CC to permanently give MANY of these characters (especially the popular ones) a permanent ending. Heck, I don't think even CC would be willing to give them a permanent ending.

[Blade X]

I find it funny that he is now all about the dead staying dead. Where was this when he killed, then brought Psylocke back to life.

remember, Psylocke was NEVER supposed to be PERMANENTLY dead.

CC is most likely talking about those deaths that he intended to be permanent from the start to stick, NOT false or fake deaths that he never intended to stick.

[Stephane Garrelie]

Not a Claremont interview but an interesting point of view, that fit what i'm thinking myself:
To people worried about the Anna Raven thing, John Byrne answered:
http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30174&PN=1&TPN=2
"John Byrne
Byrne Robotics CEOPosted: 07 February 2009 at 8:19pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Charles Xavier, Nicholas Fury, Scott Summers, Jean Grey, Hank McCoy, Kurt
Wagner, Kitty Pryde, Anna Raven, Remy LeBeau and two characters who
must, for the present, remain surprises.

••

Chris has always had a fondness for calling the characters by their "real"
names. He even dedicated his first published novel to the X-Men, by their
first names.

Referring to Rogue as "Anna Raven" is his personal affectation, not
necessarily something in the book. Wait and see. "

[steve2275]

I have to agree with Novayana. She looks horrid. Her pantyhose matches Lockheed's color. Her costume is purple and yellow? What is she? Easter? And Kittty needs big hair.
those r LEGGINGS not pantyhose
dont EVER confuse the two
PISSES ME OFF

[Novaya Havoc]

That didn't sound bitter to me. However, it did sound more like he was more interested in leaving "his mark" on the X-Men instead of acting like a TEMPORARY CARETAKER for the characters (which is what ALL work for hire creators are SUPPOSED to be). It's this type of mentality that has contributed to screwing up many Marvel and DC superhero characters/titles. That being said, this is a type of "WHAT IF" title, so it is OK for CC to leave his "mark" on these characters (although I hope he will think more long term then that).

Claremont tried to destroy Dazzler to "get back" at Jim Shooter.

"WHAT?! A SHOEHORNED GRAPHIC NOVEL WITH DAZZLER RELEASING A MOVIE THAT WILL BE A BREAKTHROUGH FOR MUTANTS?! Suck my culo, Shooter -- I'm creating LILA CHENEY!!!!"

He is no caretaker of mine. He is not my Shepherd, and I will never join His flock.

[Novaya Havoc]

Chris has always had a fondness for calling the characters by their "real"
names. He even dedicated his first published novel to the X-Men, by their
first names.

See? More Dazzler hate. This is why he always butchers her rull name as "Allison Blair" and never mentions the mutant with the most glorious real name ever: Lois London.

I shall destroy CC.

[MartinRedmond]

Enjoy it for what it is, no one that matters cares about minor continuity mistakes from satelite books that don't matter.:biggrin:

[MartinRedmond]

I find it funny that he is now all about the dead staying dead. Where was this when he killed, then brought Psylocke back to life.

Right, in a 30 year long carreer. He's brought one character back to life. He's the biggest hypocrite the world has ever known.

[david r]

With this series, I can die happy. :smile:

[Stephane Garrelie]

With this series, I can die happy. :smile:

And me i can read a Marvel book again.
This is what i wanted. The comicbook of my dreams.
Couldn't be more happy about that.:smile:

[Petes Pants]

I'm so happy to see you all so happy.

[david r]

And me i can read a Marvel book again.
This is what i wanted. The comicbook of my dreams.
Couldn't be more happy about that.:smile:

I learned about this book while I was at work. Afterwards, I was walking around in a daze for awhile. :tongue: I hope my co-workers did not notice. :biggrin: Honestly, I wished Marvel had done this in 2000. Give Chris Claremont his own playground, and let him do whatever he wants. It worked for 17 years. I hope it works now.

[Omega Alpha]

Honestly, I wished Marvel had done this in 2000. Give Chris Claremont his own playground, and let him do whatever he wants. It worked for 17 years. I hope it works now.

Well, to be fair, Marvel didn't let him alway do whatever he wanted back then, and it more than once it turned out to be a good idea (like in DPS).

[david r]

What's great for me is I'm reading his classic Uncanny X-Men run right now. So I can read straight into this new book and judge how it "flows" with his original run. Alas, no Jim Lee.

[That JonoGuy]

Right, in a 30 year long carreer. He's brought one character back to life. He's the biggest hypocrite the world has ever known.

Yeah, because I'm not allowed to use an example. My bad.:rolleyes:

[Joe Franklin]

I find it funny that he is now all about the dead staying dead. Where was this when he killed, then brought Psylocke back to life.

Claremont was only talking about this new book, not the rest of the Marvel titles he has written in the past.

Dead means dead only applies to Claremont's X-Men Forever, as he made clear in more then one interview.

[Stephen Moreno]

The problem with this book is that it is not going to be a true continuation of his plans. His plans, originally, were suppose to fit into a serial, ongoing medium, this is not that. You get nice advantages with out of continuity stories since you can work with absolutes, like killing Magneto for good. It just isn't going to be a true continuation.

[Joe Franklin]

The problem with this book is that it is not going to be a true continuation of his plans. His plans, originally, were suppose to fit into a serial, ongoing medium, this is not that. You get nice advantages with out of continuity stories since you can work with absolutes, like killing Magneto for good. It just isn't going to be a true continuation.

You are correct, and Claremont said the same in multiple interviews.

[Stephen Moreno]

You are correct, and Claremont said the same in multiple interviews.

It seems that it needs to be repeated to some here because you folks are under the (de)illusion that it's a true follow up.

http://www.toplessrobot.com/Wolverine_55_0023-24.jpg

[Blade X]

Claremont tried to destroy Dazzler to "get back" at Jim Shooter.

"WHAT?! A SHOEHORNED GRAPHIC NOVEL WITH DAZZLER RELEASING A MOVIE THAT WILL BE A BREAKTHROUGH FOR MUTANTS?! Suck my culo, Shooter -- I'm creating LILA CHENEY!!!!"

He is no caretaker of mine. He is not my Shepherd, and I will never join His flock.

But....but....Dazzler SUCKED as a character before she joined the X-Men.:evilsmile:

[Blade X]

Claremont tried to destroy Dazzler to "get back" at Jim Shooter.

"WHAT?! A SHOEHORNED GRAPHIC NOVEL WITH DAZZLER RELEASING A MOVIE THAT WILL BE A BREAKTHROUGH FOR MUTANTS?! Suck my culo, Shooter -- I'm creating LILA CHENEY!!!!"

He is no caretaker of mine. He is not my Shepherd, and I will never join His flock.

But....but....Dazzler SUCKED as a character before she joined the X-Men.:evilsmile: