X-Men: Forever - News and Discussion

[rwsmith]

oooooohhhhhhhhhh sarcasm.

You guys are right. Wolverine will always be a mega popular character. His books will always sell well. Hell, since his mere appearance is enough to sell ANY book, then it should be mandatory that he be should appear at least once in every issue of every single Marvel book so that sales will be up on those books.

On a serious note, this video interview with Joe Q actually addresses a lot of the points we've been debating in this thread regarding sales peaks and valleys on books, and how certain titles/characters see their sales settle in at much higher level than others (i.e., Spider-man, Wolverine, Avengers, X-men vs. Hercules, for example); but, regardless, as the man says, it's almost impossible to see sales stay at those peaks all the time. Just check out the first 2 and a half minutes: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=20070

I shall leave you with that, Mr. Blade X, and depart this thread since I likely won't even be buying the title (unless CC does something cool like making Cable not be Scott and Maddie's son raised in the far future). :cool:

Exactly! :} And I'm sure the Claremont Police will be there every single issue to share your extensive knowledge of an author you disdain so badly.

Um...yeah, okay (whatever the hell that means). :smile:

[Leirus]

Good idea. Then it can get cancelled even faster than it's going to anyway. :LOL:

Seriously, though, I hope he does. This should be the "fanwank" book where great Claremont creations like Sage and Thunderbird III take center stage to appease the hardcore CC followers. Let Cyclops and Jean retire, kill Wolverine, and so on and so forth.

It will be great (if you like that sort of thing).

I do not think this is aimed to fans of Claremont´s last year(s), so no Thunderbird III no Lifeguard etc etc... This is 80´s nostalgia after all...

And It is in continuity. I will read it as the dreams of Kitty Pryde while in the giant bullet.

[Come To Deathstrike]

This thread contains a dangerous level of crazy.

[chastmastr]

I will be reading it as "one of the continuities that makes more sense to me than the current stuff in 616 as well as being more enjoyable for me to read."

Make Mine Alternate-Reality Marvel! :smile:

David

[Blade X]

It means that enough people are buying them.


SEAN

No it doesn't. X-MEN #1 "sold" 7 to 8 million copies, but you could easily find hundreds of copies of that issue at just about any comic store that was around back then (and still in business) when that issue came out. Just because you see lots of Wolverine comics at the stores you frequent, DOES NOT mean that lot's of paying customers are actually buying those comics.

[Stephen Moreno]

No it doesn't. X-MEN #1 "sold" 7 to 8 million copies, but you could easily find hundreds of copies of that issue at just about any comic store that was around back then (and still in business) when that issue came out. Just because you see lots of Wolverine comics at the stores you frequent, DOES NOT mean that lot's of paying customers are actually buying those comics.

No it just means that the LCS bought a lot of copies, Marvel already got their money it's up to the stores now to push them. So Marvel sold a lot of copies of it, the LCS's just haven't yet.

[darknessatnoon]

I will be reading it as "one of the continuities that makes more sense to me than the current stuff in 616 as well as being more enjoyable for me to read."


This sentence was not enjoyable for me to read as it is a run-on and uses inappropriate quotation marks.

[Sean Whitmore]

No it doesn't. X-MEN #1 "sold" 7 to 8 million copies, but you could easily find hundreds of copies of that issue at just about any comic store that was around back then (and still in business) when that issue came out. Just because you see lots of Wolverine comics at the stores you frequent, DOES NOT mean that lot's of paying customers are actually buying those comics.

That comparison is off. Nobody making new copies of X-Men #1. But Marvel continues to commission and publish Wolverine-related comics. Companies don't do that unless they're selling.


SEAN

[Alex A Sanchez]

And Stan & Jack created them, therefore everything after it is alternate reality, isn't it?:rolleyes:

Regardless of what Claremont feels or his fans think, the characters are all Marvel's, so to not call this is just another alternate reality is bull.

:rolleyes: The X-Men were commercial failures under Stan and Jack. It wasn't until Cockrum, Wein, and Claremont got ahold of the franchise that the X-Men had any sort of significance. Who ever reads these new stories are free to interpret and give them whatever sort of significance they want to. If 800 fans want to consider X-men Forever "what really was going to happen" then no one else can tell them differently. You can't tell them what to think- telepaths aren't real. :biggrin:

[Blade X]

On a serious note, this video interview with Joe Q actually addresses a lot of the points we've been debating in this thread regarding sales peaks and valleys on books, and how certain titles/characters see their sales settle in at much higher level than others (i.e., Spider-man, Wolverine, Avengers, X-men vs. Hercules, for example); but, regardless, as the man says, it's almost impossible to see sales stay at those peaks all the time. Just check out the first 2 and a half minutes: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=20070

I shall leave you with that, Mr. Blade X, and depart this thread since I likely won't even be buying the title (unless CC does something cool like making Cable not be Scott and Maddie's son raised in the far future). :cool:

Quesada didn't say anything in that video that I didn't already know. Hell, he said many of the same things that I already said on this very thread. I also find it ironic that Quesada has touted the 90's gimmick of relying on event crossovers as a necessary evil when he has said in at least one interview that the 90's comic market was a false market in terms of sales.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who wants to see the whole thing about Cable being Scott and Maddie's son retconned.

[Blade X]

No it just means that the LCS bought a lot of copies, Marvel already got their money it's up to the stores now to push them. So Marvel sold a lot of copies of it, the LCS's just haven't yet.

Which is pretty much what I said. Just because comic stores ordered a lot of comics DOES NOT mean that there is an actual demand for the comics by actual walk in paying customers.

[Blade X]

That comparison is off. Nobody making new copies of X-Men #1. But Marvel continues to commission and publish Wolverine-related comics. Companies don't do that unless they're selling.


SEAN

My comparison is perfectly valid since I was trying to show that just because a dealer order lot's of copy's of a particular comic or order lots of comics because they feature a particular character, does not mean there is a huge demand for those comics and/or characters on the part of walk in paying customers.

[rojash]

My comparison is perfectly valid since I was trying to show that just because a dealer order lot's of copy's of a particular comic or order lots of comics because they feature a particular character, does not mean there is a huge demand for those comics and/or characters on the part of walk in paying customers.

Yes, but if the retailers weren't selling them, then they wouldn't be ordering them, therefore Marvel wouldn't be pumping them out.

Pretty logical, if you ask me.

[worstblogever]

I realize the advance solicits have been available for a bit, but I only just read them, so bear with me:

BA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That old Jim Lee poster is actually the cover? BA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

They need to channel that feeling that the past 18 years of X-Men continuity have only been a dream sequence. Really, no artist worked on the X-Men since #3, either. Jim Lee left, and Tom Grummett took over.

The key to appreciating this seems to be embracing that delusion. And many others.

[Stephen Moreno]

Which is pretty much what I said. Just because comic stores ordered a lot of comics DOES NOT mean that there is an actual demand for the comics by actual walk in paying customers.

Marvel judges the demand for the character/title by what the LCS orders. With an ongoing, an ongoing in it's say 20-30's, you have a pretty good idea of the demand for the issue, for the Wolverine one-shots you have the past 20 or so to look at. They keep printing them because they keep selling, not up to the 80's-90's gold standard that you keep going back too, but they sell.

[Optic Rage!]

This should be the "fanwank" book

You mean it's not that already?

In a funny way, i hope CC kills Scott in the first issue, just for the big LOL fest i will have.

[Blade X]

Yes, but if the retailers weren't selling them, then they wouldn't be ordering them, therefore Marvel wouldn't be pumping them out.

Pretty logical, if you ask me.

As someone who works at a comic shop, I can tell you that is not always the case. There are many factors that go into determining how many copies of a comic a particular shop orders, and things are always constantly changing..

[Waterlily]

Isn't supply determined by demand?

[Sean Whitmore]

My comparison is perfectly valid since I was trying to show that just because a dealer order lot's of copy's of a particular comic or order lots of comics because they feature a particular character, does not mean there is a huge demand for those comics and/or characters on the part of walk in paying customers.

They've been pumping out the Wolverine shlock for a long time now. Stores keep ordering them in, at the very least, sufficient amounts to make Marvel keep publishing them.

Maybe the stores aren't selling them, maybe they're just stupid, I don't know. But the logical presumption is that they're ordering them because they have reason to believe they'll sell.


SEAN

[Blade X]

Isn't supply determined by demand?

Not always. Sometimes supply is determined by POTENTIAL demand (no matter how big or small that demand may be).

[Sean Whitmore]

Isn't supply determined by demand?

Unless something drastic has changed in the years since I ran a shop.


SEAN

[Blade X]

They've been pumping out the Wolverine shlock for a long time now. Stores keep ordering them in, at the very least, sufficient amounts to make Marvel keep publishing them.

Maybe the stores aren't selling them, maybe they're just stupid, I don't know. But the logical presumption is that they're ordering them because they have reason to believe they'll sell.


SEAN

Speaking ONLY for the comic shop I work at, the following things factor in our decisions on how many copy's of a Wolverine title we order.

1. Our file customers who buy everything Marvel.

2. Our file customers who buy every X-title.

3. Our file customers who buy all Wolverine titles.

4. A tie in with a major crossover event.

5. Depending on who the creative team is working on those books.

6. Guessing what our non file customers MIGHT buy. So we sometimes order extra copy's just in case our non file customers MIGHT want to buy those comics.

7. How many copy's of the various other Wolverine books we have left on the shelf.

Things get even more difficult when our file and non file customers change their minds about whether or not to buy one or more particular Wolverine comic. It's a friggin pain in the butt.:mad:

[xgeek52]

from strictly a retailer's point of view and speaking to his own store, blade has a point...at my store the manager and i order to what the customer wants and is willing to buy...

that's why wolverine has survived the saturation that it's had...and if you notice the solicts for may almost half are books with him as the central character...

[Nachturne]

Isn't supply determined by demand?

No no no. Demand is determined by Blade X.

[Blade X]

No no no. Demand is determined by Blade X.

Admit it, you love me, don't you.:biggrin:

[DrDoom616]

Isn't supply determined by demand?

not on a first issue it isn't, it's basically down to guess work
If a LCS thinks it will sell, they will order loads, doesn't mean it will sell though.

[Joe Franklin]

Has there ever been a thread involving Claremont at CBR, that has not been derailed?

I have yet to see one.:wink: :biggrin:

[John Sage]

I am really looking forward to this title and hope that it's a success!

[SayOcean]

Located in the Search Function.
yeah i did that...came up with sh!t

[Nachturne]

I am really looking forward to this title and hope that it's a success!

Of course it will be. It's Xmen FOREVER (http://bannedforever.ytmnd.com/)

[Blade X]

yeah i did that...came up with sh!t

There's a thread dedicated to it on the X-Men forums over on the comixfan message boards.

[SynthesisNY]

Gambit is smoking on the variant cover to X-Men Forever Alpha. Sneaky Cajun. I wonder if Quesada will catch this? I know its an old image, but dont they edit out smoking images now?

[Sean Whitmore]

Gambit is smoking on the variant cover to X-Men Forever Alpha. Sneaky Cajun. I wonder if Quesada will catch this? I know its an old image, but dont they edit out smoking images now?

Maybe they'll change the cigarette to a lollipop like they do in anime.

"Mister Gambit, how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?"

"Les find out, non? Un, deux, trois...(Crunch!) Trois."


SEAN

[tunasammiches]

This looks so boring.

[tunasammiches]

This looks so boring.

[SynthesisNY]

I am so EXCITED about this book, so I'm trying to start more dialogue on here.

CC's got a different style of writing that greatly suffers went there are unexpected editorial decisions that disrupt his stories.

For example:
1. Storm pulled out of his recent Uncanny run because she got married, thus any plans for storm got cancelled.
2. He began a Hellfire Storyline, and placed Sage with Sunspot, then this got cancelled due to Whedon using the Hellfire Club. Thus, the intended story for Sage was cancelled.
3. I believe X-23 was editorially mandated to guest-appear.
4. He definitely DID NOT want to write that God Loves Part II story.
5. Beast was pulled away from his line-up in X-Treme, in which Beast was a integral character, after a whole year of plotting was already complete. Beast story cancelled.
6. Gambit is not the character he created anymore, fans want him tied to Rogue, so thus, less creative freedom in writing Gambit.

His Revolution (2000) era was even worse:
1. His initial story, starting at X-Men 100, got shortened by an issue after 100 was already in print. Thus, he never got to follow up on what he intended for Kitty Pryde.
2. It was likely more Bob Harra's idea to have a "six-month" gap. Harras lets him make all these changes in the x-universe, then the movie approaches, and he expects CC to undo all that change in like 2-3 issues.

However, I saw glimpses of classic CC in that issue in which Xavier in mourning the death of Moira, the "Good Shepard," and how Xavier helped Cecilia Reyes. I saw glimpses of classic CC in the Christmas issue before the X-Treme team departs (Storm started talking again!!! Up to that point, he had kept her in the background)

X-Treme was a treat, especially Schism and Prisoner of Fire. Though I wonder what it would have been like if he could have used characters like Jean and Beast, two of his clear favorites. What would have happened if he could have used Dani and Forge like he wanted.

My overall point: CC is a LONG-Term storyteller, he builds up plotlines slowly and subltely. Without negative editorial interference, and with absolute creative freedom, the potential is so exciting.

Even CC, at half his power, but with complete creative freedom with the characters he loves, will be better than that cr** going on in Uncanny X-Men.

[darknessatnoon]

I am so EXCITED about this book, so I'm trying to start more dialogue on here.

CC's got a different style of writing that greatly suffers went there are unexpected editorial decisions that disrupt his stories.

For example:
1. Storm pulled out of his recent Uncanny run because she got married, thus any plans for storm got cancelled.
2. He began a Hellfire Storyline, and placed Sage with Sunspot, then this got cancelled due to Whedon using the Hellfire Club. Thus, the intended story for Sage was cancelled.
3. I believe X-23 was editorially mandated to guest-appear.
4. He definitely DID NOT want to write that God Loves Part II story.
5. Beast was pulled away from his line-up in X-Treme, in which Beast was a integral character, after a whole year of plotting was already complete. Beast story cancelled.
6. Gambit is not the character he created anymore, fans want him tied to Rogue, so thus, less creative freedom in writing Gambit.

His Revolution (2000) era was even worse:
1. His initial story, starting at X-Men 100, got shortened by an issue after 100 was already in print. Thus, he never got to follow up on what he intended for Kitty Pryde.
2. It was likely more Bob Harra's idea to have a "six-month" gap. Harras lets him make all these changes in the x-universe, then the movie approaches, and he expects CC to undo all that change in like 2-3 issues.

However, I saw glimpses of classic CC in that issue in which Xavier in mourning the death of Moira, the "Good Shepard," and how Xavier helped Cecilia Reyes. I saw glimpses of classic CC in the Christmas issue before the X-Treme team departs (Storm started talking again!!! Up to that point, he had kept her in the background)

X-Treme was a treat, especially Schism and Prisoner of Fire. Though I wonder what it would have been like if he could have used characters like Jean and Beast, two of his clear favorites. What would have happened if he could have used Dani and Forge like he wanted.

My overall point: CC is a LONG-Term storyteller, he builds up plotlines slowly and subltely. Without negative editorial interference, and with absolute creative freedom, the potential is so exciting.

Even CC, at half his power, but with complete creative freedom with the characters he loves, will be better than that cr** going on in Uncanny X-Men.

I can't wait, either. I wouldn't worry about editorial interference this time around. The very concept of this book tells me that there won't be any editing going on at all.

[mikeb]

Gambit is smoking on the variant cover to X-Men Forever Alpha. Sneaky Cajun. I wonder if Quesada will catch this? I know its an old image, but dont they edit out smoking images now?

Maybe they'll change the cigarette to a lollipop like they do in anime.

"Mister Gambit, how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?"

"Les find out, non? Un, deux, trois...(Crunch!) Trois."


SEANSo Marvel is turning Gambit into...Kojak?:confused: "Who loves ya,baby"!:biggrin:

[xgeek52]

my point in all the threads dealing with claremont is that he is a writer, who has his highs and his lows and is subject to the whims (for the lack of a better word) of what his editors want...

forever will give him a shot at what he's always wanted to do with the x-men...will the editorial staff leave him along -- i dunno...i hope so...but as a retired reporter and a writer myself, i can't see that happening...

[RolandJP]

I am so EXCITED about this book, so I'm trying to start more dialogue on here.

CC's got a different style of writing that greatly suffers went there are unexpected editorial decisions that disrupt his stories.

For example:
1. Storm pulled out of his recent Uncanny run because she got married, thus any plans for storm got cancelled.
2. He began a Hellfire Storyline, and placed Sage with Sunspot, then this got cancelled due to Whedon using the Hellfire Club. Thus, the intended story for Sage was cancelled.
3. I believe X-23 was editorially mandated to guest-appear.
4. He definitely DID NOT want to write that God Loves Part II story.
5. Beast was pulled away from his line-up in X-Treme, in which Beast was a integral character, after a whole year of plotting was already complete. Beast story cancelled.
6. Gambit is not the character he created anymore, fans want him tied to Rogue, so thus, less creative freedom in writing Gambit.

His Revolution (2000) era was even worse:
1. His initial story, starting at X-Men 100, got shortened by an issue after 100 was already in print. Thus, he never got to follow up on what he intended for Kitty Pryde.
2. It was likely more Bob Harra's idea to have a "six-month" gap. Harras lets him make all these changes in the x-universe, then the movie approaches, and he expects CC to undo all that change in like 2-3 issues.

However, I saw glimpses of classic CC in that issue in which Xavier in mourning the death of Moira, the "Good Shepard," and how Xavier helped Cecilia Reyes. I saw glimpses of classic CC in the Christmas issue before the X-Treme team departs (Storm started talking again!!! Up to that point, he had kept her in the background)

X-Treme was a treat, especially Schism and Prisoner of Fire. Though I wonder what it would have been like if he could have used characters like Jean and Beast, two of his clear favorites. What would have happened if he could have used Dani and Forge like he wanted.

My overall point: CC is a LONG-Term storyteller, he builds up plotlines slowly and subltely. Without negative editorial interference, and with absolute creative freedom, the potential is so exciting.

Even CC, at half his power, but with complete creative freedom with the characters he loves, will be better than that cr** going on in Uncanny X-Men.

I was interested in the Sunspot Lord imperial of the Hellfire club ( replacing his father's role in the club, with the financial power he once held) Sage tutoring had a chance for some choice story developments--at the very least, it would have showed the inner workings of the HFC.

Storm and the XSE

Gambit??

The Rebuilding of Genosha.

Cecilia Reyes had a more prominent role.

The Shiar Death commando's


Yeah, Im looking forward to seeing what he can do with this alternate reality book.

[chastmastr]

I also think this will be great because of no Decimation, no Civil War, no Endangered Species, no Messiah Complex, etc. :)

[The Black Guardian]

I also think this will be great because of no Decimation, no Civil War, no Endangered Species, no Messiah Complex, etc. :)
This is the focused totality of my thoughts.

[xgeek52]

i come from a time when crossovers and events were an alien concept...i don't know if claremont had these in mind, all i know in the years that i read him HE TOLD STORIES...it's what i grew up on and it was/is what i appeciate about comics -- that there was a story...

*shrugs*

that's just me...

i'm looking to forever because it won't be involved in dark reign or the messiah war...

[jarrod]

This looks so boring.
What do you expect, it's Grummett. Ugh.


What does Marvel have against Paul Smith or Rick Leonardi? :frown:

[chastmastr]

Here's hoping, too, the X-Men get to play baseball again. And, dammit, we'll have that family dynamic again with them. The mainstream 616 present-day X-books have been trying to make them into an army... which is not at all what the X-Men are supposed to be.

I also wonder, since it looks like Sabretooth in that preview art, and he won't be appearing in the new Exiles book by Parker apparently, might that be the Age of Apocalypse/heroic Sabretooth finding a new home? Would love to see the heroic Sabretooth meet the classic Logan (and not just have ongoing mistrust either). The relationship between Victor and Betsy was sort of left hanging when New Exiles had to wrap up, though I think she's going to be stuck back in mainstream 616, alas.

Would be nice to see poor Nocturne appear somewhere too.

David

[DeadXMan]

I also think this will be great because of no Decimation, no Civil War, no Endangered Species, no Messiah Complex, etc. :)

more importantly, no onslaught or operation: zero tolerance, That's when I drop the x-books until CC came back.

as for sabertooth
CC originally had him reformed and Logan become evil thanks to the Hand brainwashing him.

I think both Betsy and Creed gets him back Betsy breaks they spell that put in ravage's body and becomes white again.

[the Hornet]

I really hope CC goes all out the way he wanted it and not get influenced by the stuff that came after him. i.e. -

1. No Kwannon and this is Betsy 's real body altered to look Asian.

2. His original plan for Gambit's origin.

3. The Gold and Blue team missions the way he planned it.

4. Did he have a hand in creating Bishop, if not, no Bishop here either.

5. The Jean and Scott relationship as he intended.

6. Dazzler and Longshot's return from Mojoland......

so many possibilities and I am going to pretend this is me reading them all back in the 90s again.:biggrin:

[chastmastr]

so many possibilities and I am going to pretend this is me reading them all back in the 90s again.:biggrin:

I'm almost literally doing that, myself. I have this arguably bizarre way of sorting and reading my back issues (http://www.comicsbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4422) which means that -- for instance -- in my continuity, the Marvel comics from the 1990s lead to the MC-2/Spider-Girl future, and the Marvel comics from around 2000 - 2004 (before Disassembled, Decimation etc.) lead to X-Men The End and GeNext as their future... so X-Men Forever will very nicely cap off the 1980s era and be its "official" future as far as I am concerned, with the possible addition of Machine Man 2020 and the Hercules minis.

(Yep, Deathlok, Killraven and the Guardians of the Galaxy are the future of the 1970s MU, too. Works for me...)

(And there was this one Fantastic Four annual showing the FF if they'd aged in real time since 1961, too...)

David
geek geek geek geek geek

[Bronze Badger]

http://webflash.ispeedway.com/online%20gallery/images/xmen%20united_jpg.jpg

[DeadXMan]

best... X-team..... ever

and looks a lot better then Land "artwork"

[Justin K.]

I've seen that image plenty of times
any cosplay X-men that hasn't been posted here before?

[RolandJP]

http://comicbookresources.com/images/solicits/marvelcomics/200907/157_X_MEN_FOREVER_4.jpg

[Azure]

What happens if this series contradicts the continuity of X-Treme X-Men?

[RolandJP]

What happens if this series contradicts the continuity of X-Treme X-Men?


I thought this series was out of current continuity. ( including X-treme)

[Joe Franklin]

What happens if this series contradicts the continuity of X-Treme X-Men?

This is a what if Claremont never left series?, which means X-Treme X-Men never existed according to X-Men Forever.

[chastmastr]

Yep! It's basically another universe than X-Treme X-Men and X-Men The End/GeNext. :smile: Which means we get to enjoy both.

[Pixie_Solanas]

best... X-team..... ever

and looks a lot better then Land "artwork"

Considering the ample face-girth aplenty in that photo, that's a dead-ringer for some Dodson artwork.

[Pixie_Solanas]

http://comicbookresources.com/images/solicits/marvelcomics/200907/157_X_MEN_FOREVER_4.jpg

Grummett actually made Kitty look interesting. I'm sold.

[Majinoaw]

What is the feeling on this book? Will it do extremely well? What do you think?

[Pixie_Solanas]

What is the feeling on this book? Will it do extremely well? What do you think?

It's happy sex in comic form. It's that good.

[darknessatnoon]

Grummett actually made Kitty look interesting. I'm sold.

He made her look like Cat Pryde - the opposite of interesting.

[Pixie_Solanas]

He made her look like Cat Pryde - the opposite of interesting.

Cat from NeX was running shoes/comfort wear. This one looks a bit more fashionable.

[Prodigy55]

CCForever91 is the best.

[darknessatnoon]

I love it! I wonder what Kitty's secret is?

I think she's having an affair with Lockheed.

[Pixie_Solanas]

I love it! I wonder what Kitty's secret is? Anyone have an speculation? Two issues of this in a month? It's like Marvel is trying to make up for Uncanny and Murder-Force by putting out two issues a month. I love you Marvel, I take back everything bad I ever said.

Your avatar is pure gold.

[jester1436]

I think she's having an affair with Lockheed.

We've known for years that Lockheed licks peanut butter from her cooter. It's obvious.

[darknessatnoon]

That is nonsense. I for one think it has something to do with her families involvement on the island of Genosha. My theory is that this ties into the secret origin of the Sentinels Claremont has been saying we will learn during the duration of this book.

I'm all for a return to the Carmen Pryde Saga. Do you think he's Genosha's new Minister of Finance?

[chastmastr]

Oh and thank God, none of this "Lockheed is really a double agent for SWORD" crap. I can't believe mainstream 616 actually managed to retcon something anti-heroic into Lockheed. :mad:

Well, with Forever and the Pet Avengers books, my "classic" Lockheed fix is assured. :cool:

[chastmastr]

(I wish I knew how to get in touch with Chris to tell him how much his books have meant to me. When he had that stroke I was very sad and wondered how much time I'd have to do so, but I am glad he seems to be recovered and is doing more work.)

David

[darknessatnoon]

(I wish I knew how to get in touch with Chris to tell him how much his books have meant to me. When he had that stroke I was very sad and wondered how much time I'd have to do so, but I am glad he seems to be recovered and is doing more work.)

David

HE DID NOT HAVE A STROKE! Where did this stroke nonsense get started?

[jarrod]

I think she's having an affair with Lockheed.
You may be on to something...

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w213/jarrodand/skullfucker.jpg

[Majinoaw]

I'm going to try and get the thread back on topic, I wonder what caused Jean Grey's outburst? You don't think Claremont is building to another Phoenix Saga type story do you?

Probably so. I think Claremont has a thing for extremely powerful women...
Maybe a bit of Dark Phoenix returning?

[psycwave]

How long do you all feel it will be before CC brings in his Forever versions of Psylocke and Sage?

[Majinoaw]

How long do you all feel it will be before CC brings in his Forever versions of Psylocke and Sage?

Not long at all.

[AcesX1X]

How long do you all feel it will be before CC brings in his Forever versions of Psylocke and Sage?

well, i don't know about psylocke, but when i asked CC about sage in x-men forever, he said "be careful what you wish for."

[DeadXMan]

I think we need a re-reveiw of everything from X-men #4 to see the exact moment the x-line went to hell

[Beast]

I think we need a re-reveiw of everything from X-men #4 to see the exact moment the x-line went to hell
Well, Magneto's death and the impact of the nuclear missles he had was completely ignored.

X-Men #4 kicked off with a basketball game. And then went downhill from there.

CLAREMONT: But, the point is that the X-Men's relationship with the world is about to change markedly. The X-Men got involved in a situation where Magneto became a nuclear power and threatened to use those nukes from orbit. The reality exists that if he could do it, anyone else could do it. One might be able to fudge things in the world of 1991 and say that terrorists that threaten the safety of the world don't get away with it...but they do. That's no longer a valid argument today. You have a world which has just seen Magneto and a team of mutants steal an entire nuclear submarine's payload of nuclear missiles, establish himself as an orbital nuclear power, threaten to use those missiles and then get defeated by the X-Men. The premise that we're starting with is that the great powers of the world are probably not going to stand for that anymore.

[RolandJP]

Well, Magneto's death and the impact of the nuclear missles he had was completely ignored.

X-Men #4 kicked off with a basketball game. And then went downhill from there.

CLAREMONT: But, the point is that the X-Men's relationship with the world is about to change markedly. The X-Men got involved in a situation where Magneto became a nuclear power and threatened to use those nukes from orbit. The reality exists that if he could do it, anyone else could do it. One might be able to fudge things in the world of 1991 and say that terrorists that threaten the safety of the world don't get away with it...but they do. That's no longer a valid argument today. You have a world which has just seen Magneto and a team of mutants steal an entire nuclear submarine's payload of nuclear missiles, establish himself as an orbital nuclear power, threaten to use those missiles and then get defeated by the X-Men. The premise that we're starting with is that the great powers of the world are probably not going to stand for that anymore.

Sounds good!

[chastmastr]

We are the result of suckling from the Claremontian teat. A milk of unsubtle bondage thematics and untempered perversion. Yum!

I'll second that "yum" myself :wink: though I like Chris' writing mainly for other reasons. :smile: More the humanity and heroism and constructed-family aspect of the X-Men which I think has been lost of late.

In a way, really, the classic (pre-2005) MU's teams kind of had a sort of archetypal quality -- the Avengers more of a team focused on a goal, but who are also friends; the Defenders more of a bunch of folks who sort of hang out together; the New Mutants, a set of students; the Fantastic Four, a more or less biological family; but the X-Men, a group of outsiders, some of whom just don't have anyone else, who have formed their own non-biologically-related family household with its own dynamic, where people who don't fit in can find acceptance. I think that "family of outsiders" aspect has been part of its charm -- we didn't see the Avengers playing baseball very much, or working together to remove an old dead stump from the lawn, or such, the way the X-Men did. Even outsiders or people with checkered pasts like Wolverine or Rogue could find a home there. Little bits and pieces like Logan talking with Kurt about his faith, or the characters having breakfast together.

Sorry to wax philosophical there, but I credit Claremont's X-Men for my own sense of being able to find my own family of loved ones, after growing up in an abusive household, as well as being part of the gay community, so I'm looking forward to his new series. :smile:

David

[Blade X]

Plus, didn't he write the 'N' word several times in Kitty's dialogue?

He only had her say it three times in her dialogue, and as a way to show the parallels between the "N" word and the word "mutie". Nothing more, nothing less. Now whether or not it was a bad idea or in poor taste for CC to try and get across to the readers that the fictional slur "mutie" is just as bad as a real world racial slur, can be debated. So let's not try to twist the facts and/or make a mountain out of a mole hill in order to try and drum up hatred for a writers who's current work you do not enjoy.

[passer-by]

The comparison Kitty drew betwen the use of "nigger" and "mutie" was one of the best scenes in God Loves, Man Kills IMO. You probably remember how that scene ended - with Stevie Hunter clenching her fist and thinking "... and you'd be right" while a tear rolled down her cheek, but with a resolved face. (Great job by Brent Anderson there). It showed very clearly what the fight for Mutants rights is about.

And let's not forget the opening scene with the lynching of the kids which was an even stronger parallel.

[DeadXMan]

The comparison Kitty drew betwen the use of "nigger" and "mutie" was one of the best scenes in God Loves, Man Kills IMO. You probably remember how that scene ended - with Stevie Hunter clenching her fist and thinking "... and you'd be right" while a tear rolled down her cheek, but with a resolved face. (Great job by Brent Anderson there). It showed very clearly what the fight for Mutants rights is about.

And let's not forget the opening scene with the lynching of the kids which was an even stronger parallel.

I re-read GLMK after reading the Magneto testimate, damn, it made feel even more for Magneto.

[Winghead]

I think this is going to be the most fun book on the stands. I honestly can't wait. I hope Marvel lets him keep going with it no matter what the sales are. Let the niche fans have their fun. Claremont has made enough money, and Marvel has made enough off of him that they can allow everyone that wants this project to have it.

[Sean Whitmore]

Plus, didn't he write the 'N' word several times in Kitty's dialogue?

Look, she was just singing along to a rap song. Why was it okay for Storm and Stevie Hunter to sing along, but not Kitty?


SEAN

[david r]

What could this "secret origin of the Sentinels" be? That Chris Claremont has hinted to. Notice that Larry Trask was never killed or captured. Could Trask be making a comeback??

[david r]

david r what do you think Claremont will do with Genosha?

I've wondered if the human government, who lost power in Genosha, would eventually make a comeback. I've wondered if this was planned for the Xavier/Magneto Excalibur series. I seem to recall a rebellion going down in X-Men #1-3 on Genosha, so I bet Claremont continues the rebellion angle. If he returns to Genosha at all.

This books going to be really interesting.

[david r]

I would if the Sentinels play a role in that?

Indeed, perhaps the humans from Genosha stole some of Warlock's ashes. (Remember, Warlock died in Genosha during the X-Tinction Agenda. ) Perhaps these deposed politicians stole away some of Warlock's ashes, and used them to create a new line of "Living Sentinels". Sentinels which use the unique properties of Warlock and the Technarch. It would make an interesting challenge for the X-Men.

[david r]

I love that, I always enjoyed the way Claremont was able to tie each villain into some personal aspect of the X-Men. I really need to reread all of his work, maybe the last half of his run leading up to X-Men #1-3.

I'm rereading his run right now. It's all by coincidence. I'm curious how his original 17 year run flows into X-Men Forever; if it's a seamless flow or not.

Do you think we will learn what he had intended to do with the New Mutants?

At this point, I doubt the New Mutants will play a major role. Claremont seems intent on using core X-Men, which has been his preference during the 2000s. I think its possible in the future, some of them will play a role.

I wish we could get multiple Forever type books, maybe instead of doing it bi-weekly we could get one X-Men book, one New Mutant book.

This would not be a bad thing. I think it's possible if X-Men Forever is a success, we WILL SEE creators returing to start up other FOREVER-themed titles. I have my wish list of possibilities. :tongue:

[Sean Whitmore]

At this point, I doubt the New Mutants will play a major role.

If I understand the "rules" (that this picks up after X-Men #3), there shouldn't be a New Mutants anymore, right? Cable would have disbanded them.

X-Men and X-Force came out close together, so I forget which happened first.


SEAN

[david r]

You think that time has changed a lot of CC's intentions for the characters?

I think we will get parts of what Claremont originally intended for the X-Men. But also completely new stuff. This isn't the early 90s, and so much has been done with the X-characters since then.

I wish it was a true continuation. I went through the Abandoned Plot threads and the Dark Wolverine Saga and Gambit's origin sound brilliant.

All I can say is, Claremont truly had ambitious plans for the 90s. This is one of the core reasons Marvel and he had a parting of the ways. In my heart of hearts, I wish X-Men Forever was going to give us exactly 100% what CC had originally intended. But I'll be happy with what I get. I can only hope for that much.

[Babylon23]

Just found this thread. Can't imagine how I missed it. I'm really looking forward to this book.

You think that time has changed a lot of CC's intentions for the characters? I wish it was a true continuation. I went through the Abandoned Plot threads and the Dark Wolverine Saga and Gambit's origin sound brilliant.

Chris has stated that he won't just be returning to those abandoned plots and that there will be a lot of new surprises in the book. Personally, I'd love to see the Dark Wolverine story he originally had planned, but given that Enemy of the State used similar concepts, he may just abandon that story completely.

re: Psylocke. Personally, I hope we see the return of non Asain Psylocke. I loved pre-ninja Betsy.

re: New Mutants. The NEw Mutants should definitely be X-Force by this point. They're still in the early stages of their proactive agenda.

[david r]

If I understand the "rules" (that this picks up after X-Men #3), there shouldn't be a New Mutants anymore, right? Cable would have disbanded them.

X-Men and X-Force came out close together, so I forget which happened first.


SEAN

X-Force #1 indeed came out BEFORE that Magneto/Jim Lee story. So Cable did disband the New Mutants. However, a creative writer could do any number of things with this situation. Undo it, or play a new path for the X-Force. What role will Cable and his X-Force have in this X-Men Forever world? Time will tell.

[david r]

I remember at X-Men #1-3 had a huge impact on Moria, where do you guys think her character will go? A love triangle almost seemed to be developing between her and Banshee and Xavier.

I hadn't actually considered that. A big revelation hits Moira in the Magneto adventure. In #4, Moira has a nervous breakdown and leaves the team. That was by Byrne/Lee. I'll be curious to see if Claremont delves into her subplot, at all.

I could definitely see a love triangle between Moira, Charles and Sean Cassidy. Nice thinking, CCForever91. However, I think Xavier would clearly step aside for the obvious romantic team of Moira and Banshee. Charles is not a player.

[Babylon23]

Here's one that seems to have been forgotten. Before X-Men #1, all of the members who'd died fighting the Adversary were invisible to technological detection. I wonder if we'll see that idea return.

[Babylon23]

The only reason I think Charles won't step aside is that in that preview he looked more confident and bold, the death of Magneto clearly has shaken him.

I also hate to bring up this name for fear of bringing in trolls, but do you think he'll address Tessa and the Hellfire Club?

Tessa will definitely play a role. There's no doubt about it. I get the feeling it will be very different than the one she's had since X-Treme X-Men though.

[david r]

Here's one that seems to have been forgotten. Before X-Men #1, all of the members who'd died fighting the Adversary were invisible to technological detection. I wonder if we'll see that idea return.

This has been a real stickler for me. The subplot of "invisible to technological detection", along with the mysteries of Gateway and Australia. I kind of doubt we'll see any resolution to these, at least at the start of this book. It would just be too much backstory/continuity from Claremont's original run. There's a whole lot of theories on *why* Roma's spell was broken. It was never adequately explained.

Will Claremont resolve the issue?? I hope for one arc (or maybe an Annual) that finally lays the whole Outback X-Men era to rest. Explaining Gateway and the other unresolved questions from that period.

[Beast]

Moira should grab her assault rifle from the pantry and join the team.

[Sean Whitmore]

IHowever, I think Xavier would clearly step aside for the obvious romantic team of Moira and Banshee. Charles is not a player.

Yeah, Chuck had just come back from a reeeeeeeeally extended vacation. He must have realized Moira wasn't gonna be waiting for him.

Could mean we see the return of whatserface, Gabrielle Heller?


SEAN

[david r]

I also hate to bring up this name for fear of bringing in trolls, but do you think he'll address Tessa and the Hellfire Club?

I think Claremont has a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT of stuff planned for the Hellfire Club. No doubt about it. We got to see some of it in his 2004-2006 return to Uncanny X-Men. But as usual, it never went anywhere. Hopefully, in X-MEN FOREVER, it will!!!! :smile:

[RolandJP]

I also hate to bring up this name for fear of bringing in trolls, but do you think he'll address Tessa and the Hellfire Club?


I hope so. Man, I wish It were June already!! Someone build a time machine and get me a copy of X-Forever.

[Babylon23]

This book sounds like it's going to be very politically driven. The X-Men are thrust into the situations based on Magneto being a nuclear threat. I can see Tessa fulfilling a major role in that kind of environment.

Also, there was a lot going on in regards to Senator Kelly, Sentinels and the Hellfire Club before Claremont left. Once again, I can see Tessa playing a major role in relation to that as well.

My timeline is a little sketchy here, but wasn't Magneto the leader of the Hellfire Club before his death. I remember him usurping Sebastian Shaw not long after Inferno but can't remember much more than that. Maybe if there's a power vacuum at the top Tessa could seize control of the club.

[chastmastr]

I could definitely see a love triangle between Moira, Charles and Sean Cassidy. Nice thinking, CCForever91. However, I think Xavier would clearly step aside for the obvious romantic team of Moira and Banshee. Charles is not a player.

Or... perhaps... Moira would step aside for... :wink:

...

Just kidding!! :tongue:

David
still wants that Logan/Exiles-Sabretooth pairing

[Leogam]

I want to see the Dark Wolverine, Shadow King Epic & the Nightcrawler Origin the most to be told in X-Men:Forever like he intended. In addition why are Kitty & Kurt around they are supposed to be with Excalibur & the New Mutants already turned into X-Force.

1) Dark Wolverine: Wolverine gets his heart ripped out by Lady Deathstrike in the heat of battle. Logan dies, and stays dead until Uncanny X-Men #294, when he is resurrected as the Master Assassin for the Hand. The X-Men must count him as a deadly adversary. Wolverine does the Hand's dark deeds, unleashing the inner beast like never before.
Jean Grey secretly infilitrates the Hand to try to break the Hand's spells. To find the Logan buried within him, Jean allows herself to be seduced by Logan. This breaks off the rapport between Cyclops and Jean Grey, with long-term implications for their later relationship. Finally, a major confrontation occurs between Wolverine and the X-Men. In a major physical fight pitting Wolverine against Colossus, Peter Rasputin rips out Wolverine's claws from their roots! The Hand fit Wolverine with new claws, they work only sporadically. Plus, the adamantium within Wolverine begins to "seep" out all over his body. In the end, Logan must stand and confront the inhuman monster that he has become--Logan would battle himself over the goodness of his soul, the warrior of his soul fighting this demon he has become ,and he would win. The adamantium would flake off and he would stand reborn as a totally natural being. His bones and claws would be virtually unbreakable.

2) Shadow King Epic: Chris Claremont's original plans for the Shadow King epic did not stop at the Muir Island Saga. They weren't meant to lead all the way to Uncanny X-Men #300. The evil Shadow King would take possession of key members of the Hellfire Club (Selene, Emma Frost and Sebastian Shaw) and manipulate them. He had taken control of Donald Pierce (see XXM Annual #1) and therefore controlled the Reavers in Australia. He mind-controlled Moira McTaggart and through her, controlled the Muir Isle Mutants. The Shadow King had operatives within the U.S. government (including Carol Danvers) and was maneuvering them into position.
Plus, Senator Robert Kelly was going to make a Presidential bid in 1992 (the year this story would play out.) Elements of Kelly's story were later shown in Dream's End. But the most dire threat of all was the Shadow King would have captured Gateway and thru the mysterious Aboriginie, was trying to access Dreamtime. If the Shadow King gained access to Dreamtime, he would be nearly unstoppable. Claremont wanted to stack the cards so heavily in the SK's favor, it would take nearly every living X-Men to stop him. An epic three years in the making.
Claremont has said he wanted the world to come to the brink of war between humans and mutants, with the Shadow King at the heart of it. He would be stoking the flames of racism and hatred for his own ends and desires. The horrible nightmarish world dreamed of in Days of Future Past seemed to be poised to happen. This would all culminate in Uncanny X-Men #300 when Charles Xavier would make a final stand against the Shadow King. Possibly, the SK would be using Legion against Xavier. Somehow, Xavier would stop and kill the Shadow King once and for all. But Charles would face the ultimate sacrifice...his life. In his place, Gateway and a reluctant Magneto would take up the mantle. (Although that would change cause Magneto dies in X-Men #3)
Following the Shadow King story and the death of Charles Xavier, CC wanted the X-Men to find themselves in a far more dangerous world than ever before. Villainous mutants were willing to be more ruthless and lethal than previously. They were willing to go to far greater lengths to achieve their evil goals, and the cost in human lives would not matter. Could the good mutants withstand this threat??
Charles Xavier's death would have had deeper implications. Claremont felt it was time for the X-Men to "grow up." Just like when a parent dies and the children must face the world on their own, and sink or swim, Chris felt it was time for Xavier's Students to face the world without the Dreamer there to guide the way. Could the X-Men and the pursuit of Xavier's Dream survive in a dangerous world WITHOUT Charles Xavier there to lead them??

3) Also, he wanted to show mutants used by the human population, like commodities. Mutants would be traded and sold as objects by corporations or powerful individuals, to be used for their own ends. (We saw some of this with the origin of Omega Red.)

4) Return of British Psylocke: Chris Claremont's original idea for Psylocke was to have her die by Vargas' sword in X-Treme X-Men, only to return in her original British body. In this way, Claremont could erase the Crimson Dawn and other character elements from her. Claremont also proposed resurrecting Colossus in XXM, but this was all nixed by Joe Quesada and "Dead is Dead".

5) Nightcrawler Origin: Nightcrawler was to be the "child" of Destiny and Mystique Destiny was the "mother" and Mystique the "father". Mystique would abandon him after child-birth because of his appearance. She then suffers a nervous breakdown, mental collapse.

6) Rachel Grey has no Father: In Excalibur (1st Series) Moira discovers unusual anomalies in Rachel's DNA. If Claremont had continued with Excalibur it would have been revealed that Rachel would be the daughter of Jean Grey and the Phoenix with no father. This would result in the Phoenix Trinity of the Mother, the Daughter and the Phoenix.

7) Chris Claremont's original plans for Gambit were he was to join the X-Men, but later stand revealed as a traitor. Remy and Mr. Sinister are connected in an unusual way. Both are the bizarre byproducts of a young mutant child Cyclops met at the orphanage. Gambit is the "positive" side, while Sinister is the "negative" side. The young boy is 8 years old, but ages only 1 for every 10 years. Gambit would have been manipulated by Sinister for his own devious schemes.

8) X-Men: Year Zero: Chris proposed this mini-series to deal with the time frame between Charles Xavier losing his legs and X-Men #1 (1963). Origins of his relationship with Sage , Sebastian Shaw, his recruitment of Jean , their adventures together, back-story concerning Logan and his gradual decision to form the X-Men. Marvel passed on the proposal.

9) Claremont/Byrne plans Chris Claremont and John Byrne planned in their run together, to have Wolverine and his love Mariko become engaged. At the day of their wedding, in front of X-Men and friend alike, Sabretooth would leap out at the altar and slash Mariko into shreds. Wolvie and 'Tooth would fight it out, but Creed would escape. Meanwhile, Mariko would survive the initial assault but be hospitalized with grave wounds. Jean Grey, trying to aid Logan in his despair, would psychically help Logan enter Mariko's consciousness. Logan would realize that she is completely brain dead. Nothing left of his lover remained. Logan would then flip off the life-support system keeping Mariko alive. He would say, "She ain't meat." And walk out. Wolverine would then go on a hunt to find and avenge her death. His quest: to capture and kill his father, Sabretooth! And he would be succesful in killing Sabretooth, once and for all.

10) Another lost Byrne/Claremont plot was the fall-out of Dark Phoenix, as originally envisioned. If Jean Grey had indeed lived, but lost the Phoenix Force, Chris and John had planned for Uncanny X-Men #150 in which Magneto would capture Jean Grey. But his plan would be to offer her back the Phoenix Force. She could wield the supreme power again. Apparently, the attraction of all-ultimate power would be very seductive to Jean still. Plus, John Byrne has stated that he and Claremont planned for Magneto to do something so despicable and heinous in #150, that Erik could NEVER EVER be redeemed again.

11) Destiny's Diaries: Chris Claremont said at a convention that he had planned the Destiny's Diaries plot back in 1989! It would have happened in the early 1990s and been the fall-out of Destiny's death in Uncanny X-Men #255.

[Beast]

You don't have to keep reposting the same information....

Anyway:
In addition why are Kitty & Kurt around they are supposed to be with Excalibur & the New Mutants already turned into X-Force.
Again, What Magneto did threatening the world with nukes and his death actually mattered.

The events of X-Men #1-#3 arn't glossed over like they were in 1991.
The X-Men don't shrug it off and play basketball ala X-Men #4.

Everyone returns to the mansion for Magneto's memorial. Kitty was close to Magneto, see the Holocaust Museum where they talked about things before Freedom Force came to arrest Magnus.

[Stephane Garrelie]

I think Claremont has a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT of stuff planned for the Hellfire Club. No doubt about it. We got to see some of it in his 2004-2006 return to Uncanny X-Men. But as usual, it never went anywhere. Hopefully, in X-MEN FOREVER, it will!!!! :smile:

I hope so too.

[RolandJP]

Just found this thread. Can't imagine how I missed it. I'm really looking forward to this book.



Chris has stated that he won't just be returning to those abandoned plots and that there will be a lot of new surprises in the book. Personally, I'd love to see the Dark Wolverine story he originally had planned, but given that Enemy of the State used similar concepts, he may just abandon that story completely.

re: Psylocke. Personally, I hope we see the return of non Asain Psylocke. I loved pre-ninja Betsy.

re: New Mutants. The NEw Mutants should definitely be X-Force by this point. They're still in the early stages of their proactive agenda.

Isnt the point behind this series..the fact CC can disregard other plotlines..and run the X-men as he intended. Without linking to other titles..past, present or future continuity.

[worstblogever]

Isnt the point behind this series..the fact CC can disregard other plotlines..and run the X-men as he intended. Without linking to other titles..past, present or future continuity.

Yes, now he can start "The Arena" and resurrect Masque as a drag queen with his servant, Poster Boy years earlier, when he originally intended to.

[RolandJP]

Yes, now he can start "The Arena" and resurrect Masque as a drag queen with his servant, Poster Boy years earlier, when he originally intended to.

Im starting to wonder..if the arena was wish fulfillment for certain fans...Because that storyline is like brought up all the time. Im a CC zombie and I dont dwell on the story arc that much.

[worstblogever]

Im starting to wonder..if the arena was wish fulfillment for certain fans...Because that storyline is like brought up all the time. Im a CC zombie and I dont dwell on the story arc that much.

You can say some have a fetish for it, I suppose.


I think it might be because it's could be the "Snakes on a Plane" of Claremont's career. People enjoy it because they appreciate it for being... well... so bad it's entertaining to watch and laugh at.

[Home made ectoplasm]

I think it might be because it's could be the "Snakes on a Plane" of Claremont's career. People enjoy it because they appreciate it for being... well... so bad it's entertaining to watch and laugh at.

That is not my motivation. I enjoy it for the reason I would enjoy any comic. It was good.

[Sean Whitmore]

Im starting to wonder..if the arena was wish fulfillment for certain fans...

Only if it was one of those Monkey Paw wishes that turn all evil on you.


SEAN

[worstblogever]

That is not my motivation. I enjoy it for the reason I would enjoy any comic. It was good.

Your consistency is admirable. CC should look up to you.

[AcesX1X]

i really did love storm: the arena. it was great fun storytelling and it really let us see storm as a woman instead of some stuffy goddess character.

i also like the different version of masque and even guido carosella was in it. the arena also had lila cheney's house in it right? amazing.

and the way storm and tessa interact in the story. you can really see the bonds of friendship that go deep.

[Majinoaw]

i really did love storm: the arena. it was great fun storytelling and it really let us see storm as a woman instead of some stuffy goddess character.

i also like the different version of masque and even guido carosella was in it. the arena also had lila cheney's house in it right? amazing.

and the way storm and tessa interact in the story. you can really see the bonds of friendship that go deep.

Two thumbs up for a great story.

[AcesX1X]

Two thumbs up for a great story.

i agree, majinoaw. who was your favorite character in the arena?

[darknessatnoon]

I think this is going to be the most fun book on the stands. I honestly can't wait. I hope Marvel lets him keep going with it no matter what the sales are. Let the niche fans have their fun. Claremont has made enough money, and Marvel has made enough off of him that they can allow everyone that wants this project to have it.

They should just print it for free! Who cares about profits!?

[Majinoaw]

i agree, majinoaw. who was your favorite character in the arena?

Storm. I think we got to see a different side of her. She truly is a great character when someone puts some effort into writing her.

[Majinoaw]

They should just print it for free! Who cares about profits!?

They should. Anything to keep the goodness going.

[Shaid O Gray]

You can say some have a fetish for it, I suppose.


I think it might be because it's could be the "Snakes on a Plane" of Claremont's career. People enjoy it because they appreciate it for being... well... so bad it's entertaining to watch and laugh at.

I still cling to my theory that the people who really liked it are younger readers who never saw the dozen other hero-as-a-gladiator-in-an-arena that CC already HAD done by then.

So we probably shouldn't fault the youn'g'uns :biggrin:

Although even then the story wouldn't have done much for me I think. I can MAYBE buy Storm as getting a taste for the arena battles (Although even then just barely) but suddenly as a gal who wants to hang out in nightclubs all the time while dressed like RuPaul on crack?? Don't see it. Nor how that makes for a gripping yarn.

Oh and I still don't know WHY Masque was suddenly a woman either...

[AcesX1X]

Oh and I still don't know WHY Masque was suddenly a woman either...

masque has a progressive attitude.

[Majinoaw]

masque has a progressive attitude.

Masque? Who is Masque? Didn't Cable kill Masque back in X-Force 7 or 8...

[Shaid O Gray]

Masque? Who is Masque? Didn't Cable kill Masque back in X-Force 7 or 8...

He got better.

Then prettier.

Then uglier again. All for no reason for he(or she) is MASQUE!! Beyond reason!! (*Dramatic music*)

Nah I got nothing. Marvel's been sloppy on this one.

[Pixie_Solanas]

masque has a progressive attitude.

Or felt like being completely and utterly fierce, for once in his miserable existence.

[Bolebeau]

I'm wondering why Kitty is in this. I mean, besides the obvious fact that Claremont loves her and is using this book as an excuse to write her.

Wasn't she still off in England after Claremont's initial run on the books ended, with no sign of her returning? I mean, they're selling this as a continuation of Claremont's original run, right? And yet there's likely not going to be much of a logical progression between the end of his run and the start of this.

[Pixie_Solanas]

I'm wondering why Kitty is in this. I mean, besides the obvious fact that Claremont loves her and is using this book as an excuse to write her.

Wasn't she still off in England after Claremont's initial run on the books ended, with no sign of her returning? I mean, they're selling this as a continuation of Claremont's original run, right? And yet there's likely not going to be much of a logical progression between the end of his run and the start of this.

Answer's right there.

[Home made ectoplasm]

Excalibur is now non Canon and Corrected. Kitty is no longer required in the UK.

[RolandJP]

He got better.

Then prettier.

Then uglier again. All for no reason for he(or she) is MASQUE!! Beyond reason!! (*Dramatic music*)

Nah I got nothing. Marvel's been sloppy on this one.

I guess Lady mastermind is progressive.

[passer-by]

I'm wondering why Kitty is in this. I mean, besides the obvious fact that Claremont loves her and is using this book as an excuse to write her.

Wasn't she still off in England after Claremont's initial run on the books ended, with no sign of her returning? I mean, they're selling this as a continuation of Claremont's original run, right? And yet there's likely not going to be much of a logical progression between the end of his run and the start of this.It was mentioned somewhere in the previous 58 pages that X-Men Forever actually starts a few months after the events of X-Men #3 and it will be gradually explained what happened during that gap.

So wait and see. The first issue isn't even out yet.

[chastmastr]

I still hope we get Logan and Mariko together without her dying.

[Babylon23]

I'm wondering why Kitty is in this. I mean, besides the obvious fact that Claremont loves her and is using this book as an excuse to write her.

Wasn't she still off in England after Claremont's initial run on the books ended, with no sign of her returning? I mean, they're selling this as a continuation of Claremont's original run, right? And yet there's likely not going to be much of a logical progression between the end of his run and the start of this.

In the preview pages, all of the x-characters have shown up at the mansion in the aftermath of Magneto's death. It's not that big a stretch to say that with the political climate changed due to Magneto's actions, Kitty and Kurt have chosen to stay at the mansion and rejoin the X-Men.

[Beast]

In the preview pages, all of the x-characters have shown up at the mansion in the aftermath of Magneto's death. It's not that big a stretch to say that with the political climate changed due to Magneto's actions, Kitty and Kurt have chosen to stay at the mansion and rejoin the X-Men.
Plus, Kitty would want a hand in going after Fabian Cortez.

Kitty and Magnus were fairly close back in the day. See the Holocaust Memorial issue of Uncanny especially. When they talk and he tells her how to go before the panel to ask about relatives.

[DeadXMan]

I still hope we get Logan and Mariko together without her dying.
good catch

[Mystique25]

Plus, Kitty would want a hand in going after Fabian Cortez.

Kitty and Magnus were fairly close back in the day. See the Holocaust Memorial issue of Uncanny especially. When they talk and he tells her how to go before the panel to ask about relatives.

what issue was that? I remember reading it, but I don't remember the issue.

[passer-by]

what issue was that? I remember reading it, but I don't remember the issue.Uncanny X-Men #199.

[stillanerd]

Has anyone posted a link to Marvel's five page preview to X-Men Forever #1 yet?

http://www.marvel.com/digitalcomics/titles/X-Men_Forever_Digital_Preview.2009.1

Some of it appears to be classic X-Men tropes, such as the implication that Jean may love Logan more than she loves Scott and that this scares her. But other stuff already is tweaked as Rogue and Gambit's real names are slightly different, Angel uses an image inducer to hide his Archangel appearance, etc..

[Sean Whitmore]

Picard, huh?

See, now I can't stop thinking of him as related to Xavier.


SEAN

[Bolebeau]

Picard, huh?

See, now I can't stop thinking of him as related to Xavier.


SEAN

Same here. I find the last name rather... silly. I mean, it could be the last name Claremont always intended for him (when was it revealed to be LeBeau?) but it's just... weird.

[Sean Whitmore]

Same here. I find the last name rather... silly. I mean, it could be the last name Claremont always intended for him (when was it revealed to be LeBeau?) but it's just... weird.

LeBeau (did it used to have an X at the end?) was first revealed by Bishop in X-Men #8, I believe. So it was likely a Nicieza/Byrne/Lobdell/whoever the hell thing.

What's weird about the preview is that somebody is mentally referring to Gambit by his real last name. Guess he's a lot more open in this reality.


SEAN

[worstblogever]

LeBeau (did it used to have an X at the end?) was first revealed by Bishop in X-Men #8, I believe. So it was likely a Nicieza/Byrne/Lobdell/whoever the hell thing.

What's weird about the preview is that somebody is mentally referring to Gambit by his real last name. Guess he's a lot more open in this reality.


I find CC's intentions for Gambit to be frightening after seeing Aquambit, son of Sue Richards and Namor from New Exiles.

Really, he could do anything with the guy, from where I'm sittin'. Don't know if any of it would make sense or be interesting, though.

[Canemacar]

The Picard is likey just an alias. Chances are CC threw it in as a joke since Remy's father is named Jean-luc.

[Sean Whitmore]

The Picard is likey just an alias. Chances are CC threw it in as a joke since Remy's father is named Jean-luc.

Suddenly Peter David is writing the book. :smile:


SEAN

[worstblogever]

Suddenly Peter David is writing the book. :smile:

No, supposedly PAD knows that the plotline about there not being any "old" mutants, one of Claremont's biggest plot points to be covered in X-Men:Forever ignores all continuity, including that which Claremont wrote himself. Rumor is, he corrected CC on that during a recent con while he was talking to a fan and promoting it to a fan, from what I heard.

Which, is all sorts of funny and awesome.

[Sean Whitmore]

Huh. I was just looking back earlier in the thread to find that PAD quote, and I see Claremont name-checked "Remy LeBeau" as being on his roster.

So Canemacar may be right on the money.


SEAN

[worstblogever]

Huh. I was just looking back earlier in the thread to find that PAD quote, and I see Claremont name-checked "Remy LeBeau" as being on his roster.

So Canemacar may be right on the money.

I can't even remember which thread had that "overheard at the con" quote. I remember hearing about it a month ago, or so.

[SpiralSixArms]

He is changing peoples names? Right. Great. Of all the things that irritated me about the X-line it was people's names. Also, an image inducer!!! What a REVLOLUTIONARY idea. Oy Gevult..

[Sean Whitmore]

I can't even remember which thread had that "overheard at the con" quote. I remember hearing about it a month ago, or so.

Well, yeah, it was right here. :smile:


I spoke to Claremont when he was signing a handful of books for me.

"I'll leave you with a hint.", he said. "Why are there no old mutants?"

I stand there and think about it as he signs one of five X-Men #1 covers. I point to one. "Magneto's pretty old. Holocaust survivor, de-aged sure, but bro's pushing 80 by now."

And he goes, "No no, older than that."

And I said, "There's Apocalypse. Or Selene."

And he says, "Is Apocalypse a mutant...?" with a very cavalier look in his eye.

And Peter David leans over and says. "Yes, yes he is. They established that fact not long after [Louise] Simonson created him."

I'm confused as to the crypticness. Or if what CC's implying makes sense at all.

Ha! I love this story.

It's like Claremont is a standup comedian saying, "People are so lazy nowadays, I'm surprised they don't just put peanut butter and jelly in the same jar." And Peter David's in the audience shouting back, "They have that now. Smucker's makes it. It's called Goober Grape, it's good."


SEAN

[worstblogever]

Well, yeah, it was right here. :smile:


That Whitmore guy and his "Goober Grape" references is effing hilarious.

[Sean Whitmore]

That Whitmore guy and his "Goober Grape" references is effing hilarious.

Well, thank God someone said it.

If I'd said it, it woulda been tacky.


SEAN

[chastmastr]

CC may have already planned an Apocalypse "revelation" which explains (in this continuity) that he isn't really a mutant...

[kk1]

I can't believe this book is happening, years ago I was wishing they could just start over from when Uncanny split into 2 books and to read it's actually going to happen is just mind blowing. I left the X-books after AOA and thought I'd never read them again but I'm hoping for the best and going to give this a try. This has so many things going for it that I hated when I quit, namely NO CROSSOVERS and a dozen other spin-off books I have to read to know what's going on, so many changes to the characters don't have to be undone or can be ignored. I have very high hopes for this book, it's either going to be really good or a huge disappointment, though I'm leaning toward the former. I'd really like to enjoy reading X-men comics again since nothing that I've read about what has happened since I stopped reading has ever made me regret stopping.

Anyone have a rough idea of which issue #'s the other X-books were on at the time of X-men #3, so I can get up to speed on what was going on and had and hadn't happened to all the characters at that point?

[kk1]

I c t b e l i e e t

[Valeria Kementari]

I can't believe this book is happening, years ago I was wishing they could just start over from when Uncanny split into 2 books and to read it's actually going to happen is just mind blowing. I left the X-books after AOA and thought I'd never read them again but I'm hoping for the best and going to give this a try. This has so many things going for it that I hated when I quit, namely NO CROSSOVERS and a dozen other spin-off books I have to read to know what's going on, so many changes to the characters don't have to be undone or can be ignored. I have very high hopes for this book, it's either going to be really good or a huge disappointment, though I'm leaning toward the former. I'd really like to enjoy reading X-men comics again since nothing that I've read about what has happened since I stopped reading has ever made me regret stopping.

Anyone have a rough idea of which issue #'s the other X-books were on at the time of X-men #3, so I can get up to speed on what was going on and had and hadn't happened to all the characters at that point?

Uncanny 281 came out with X-Men 1, but the events in that book happened alongside X-Men 4-5. I'd recommend you re-read the Muir Island Saga, Uncanny 279-280/X-Factor 68-70

[kk1]

Thanks valechan.

[david r]

Anyone have a rough idea of which issue #'s the other X-books were on at the time of X-men #3, so I can get up to speed on what was going on and had and hadn't happened to all the characters at that point?

Excalibur was around #42, as Alan Davis began writing the title. The whole team were still in England, but it's very likely Kurt and Kitty would return home for Magneto's funeral. (As well as learning the X-Men are still......ALIVE!!)

X-Factor was around #71, and Peter David's run was beginning. This is where Havok, Polaris, Strong Guy and Madrox wind up. The events here were really separate from the other X-books.

X-Force had reached issue 5. Rob Liefeld and Fabian Nicieza were the creative team, and spearheading Cable's new pro-active group of mutants. I don't know exactly what was going on in the book though.

[chastmastr]

Ah, so basically it might share continuity up till the end of the prior runs on X-Factor and Excalibur. I wonder if X-Force, being so new, might not exist in the X-Men Forever continuity, so it would be roughly up to the end of New Mutants before diverging.

[MartinRedmond]

I suggest keeping it simple, with X-Men 1 2 3, they're reprinting it this month. When I used to suggest he finish his run, I had the end of X-Tinction Agenda in mind, but this is just as good since it's kind of a continuation and a fresh start. Why overcomplicate it?

[chastmastr]

Well, in my own case, it happily provides a nice closure to the [DANGER, WILL ROBINSON! TOTAL GEEK ALERT!] Earth-Shooter continuity other than just snipping it off after Fall of the Mutants, but I'm still keeping that post-FotM stuff as part of Earth-DeFalco which leads to the MC-2 future. (In the same way is anyone really reading this? Didn't think so, but what the heck Earth-Thomas leads up to Deathlok, Killraven and Guardians of the Galaxy, and save yourselves! Just skip to the next post! Earth-Jemas leads to the future of X-Men The End and GeNext, and Earth-Lee more or less can lead to that one 1998 FF annual where Ben goes to this alternate world where the FF started in 1961 and aged normally. So X-Men Forever God, he just won't shut up, will he? Run! Run while you still can! It's not too late! gives a nice closure to the Shooterverse, rather than the kind of sporadic Machine Man/Iron Man 2020 aieeeeeee and Hercules miniseries, and/or that one What If in which Jocasta gave Scarlet Witch her body so Wanda and the Vision could be together, but that was mutually exclusive to Machine Man abandon all hope, ye that enter here and the MM stuff was really better written, so --

. . .

Hey, where'd everybody go? :confused:

[david r]

Well, in my own case, it happily provides a nice closure to the [DANGER, WILL ROBINSON! TOTAL GEEK ALERT!] Earth-Shooter continuity other than just snipping it off after Fall of the Mutants, but I'm still keeping that post-FotM stuff as part of Earth-DeFalco which leads to the MC-2 future. (In the same way is anyone really reading this? Didn't think so, but what the heck Earth-Thomas leads up to Deathlok, Killraven and Guardians of the Galaxy, and save yourselves! Just skip to the next post! Earth-Jemas leads to the future of X-Men The End and GeNext, and Earth-Lee more or less can lead to that one 1998 FF annual where Ben goes to this alternate world where the FF started in 1961 and aged normally. So X-Men Forever God, he just won't shut up, will he? Run! Run while you still can! It's not too late! gives a nice closure to the Shooterverse, rather than the kind of sporadic Machine Man/Iron Man 2020 aieeeeeee and Hercules miniseries, and/or that one What If in which Jocasta gave Scarlet Witch her body so Wanda and the Vision could be together, but that was mutually exclusive to Machine Man abandon all hope, ye that enter here and the MM stuff was really better written, so --

. . .

Hey, where'd everybody go? :confused:

:biggrin: Hey, I read the whole thing! You could argue that there is an Earth-Claremont, where the events he had planned for X-Men actually came to pass. Instead of the Lee/Lobdell/Nicieza run. Where what happened in the 1980s/early 90s actually lead somewhere. I am hoping X-Men Forever shows us that path not taken.

[boodha]

Well, I would like that, too. But I think CC is going in a whole new direction, judging by his interviews, without going back to old plotpoints.