three x books = the same team?

[christoph68]

ok other than the legacy run right now, why do we need 3 x-men books with
basically the same cast?

none of the books seem to mesh with each other [members talking about various missions that happened in the other books].

i kind of miss the old gold and blue teams of the 90's.

anybody else having the same thoughts as me?

[blehbeh]

ok other than the legacy run right now, why do we need 3 x-men books with
basically the same cast?

none of the books seem to mesh with each other [members talking about various missions that happened in the other books].

i kind of miss the old gold and blue teams of the 90's.

anybody else having the same thoughts as me?

Pretty much everyone does. Except the X-Editors and certain X-Writers. They've said on numerous occasions that they think "teams" as we knew them, are things of the past. The "army" of X-Men, which translates to intense focus on Cyclops, Emma Frost, and Wolverine, while other characters pop up now and again or are reduced to background decoration, is the way of the future. Suffering characterization, lack of detail, and nonsensical continuity is also the way of the future, apparently.

[tornshattered]

Don't worry, 10 years and they'll either: 1)be fired; 2)be demoted; 3)quit; 4)retire.

WW3 will be over by then so...

[Mia]

Pretty much everyone does. Except the X-Editors and certain X-Writers. They've said on numerous occasions that they think "teams" as we knew them, are things of the past. The "army" of X-Men, which translates to intense focus on Cyclops, Emma Frost, and Wolverine, while other characters pop up now and again or are reduced to background decoration, is the way of the future. Suffering characterization, lack of detail, and nonsensical continuity is also the way of the future, apparently.

Are you serious? Please tell me this view is a joke!

[$5 Milkshake]

I kinda wish we had solid teams (sorta blue/gold thing) also, but I think its mostly due to me being so freaking tired of Cyclops/Emma right now.

I thought I didn't like Emma anymore until the UXM annual, now I realize the real problem.

[Grapeweasel]

3 reasons.

Wolverine.

Wolverine.

Wolverine.

[Valjean999]

Its no different than when Spider-Man had 4 books out at the same time, in the 70s,80s, and part of the 90s. And, for a time, Superman had 4, too (dont know if he still does). And, for that matter, I know Batman has, at times, had multiple books.

[greenshoes713]

I kinda wish we had solid teams (sorta blue/gold thing) also, but I think its mostly due to me being so freaking tired of Cyclops/Emma right now.

I thought I didn't like Emma anymore until the UXM annual, now I realize the real problem.

Um what's the real problem Shake?

[.LuckyStar.]

To me the real problem is Astonishing X-Men, it comes out once in a decade, so they have to shoehorn the main cast into another book so they can be part of storylines that does matter.

[$5 Milkshake]

Um what's the real problem Shake?

She wears too much Cyclops.

[greenshoes713]

She wears too much Cyclops.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Your funny a dood.

[Steven F.]

Are you serious? Please tell me this view is a joke!

Which one...Blehbe view, or the editors view? It is really the editors view sadly.

[tetragene]

the whole "rotating cast" & "one big army" thing has really floundered so far. And I think readers are now aware of how b/s it is--considering we've seen characters like Karma, Cannonball & Dazzler who were originally lauded as being "team members" and "part of the book" relegated to being wallpaper in UXM.

AXM is going at a painfully slow rate. Painfully.

I really wish the books were team based. I'm sick of the characters fans have been clamoring for in the books being shuffled to the back, only poking their heads up every 15 panels while Cyclops pretends to manage them (when he's really only managing the same 6 characters across several books) & Emma (whom I do love) throws her boobs around. It's getting very old, very fast.

[Mia]

Which one...Blehbe view, or the editors view? It is really the editors view sadly.

I meant the editors view. Marvel really needs to get rid of their 'House of Ideas' masthead, it certainly is no longer applicable.

[Josef F.]

I could manage to write one issue a month, Warren Ellis.
Fix Up. Look Sharp.

Also, I could not manage to draw One issue a month, but some people could, Simone Bianchi.
Fix Up. Look Sharp.

[Petes Pants]

I nominate Joseph F for Astonishing Co-Writer.!

[Josef F.]

I nominate Josef F for Astonishing Co-Writer.!

I would rock that.
Lady Deathstrike would be queen of the Yakuza, and she would Screw.That.Team.Up.

Lady Deathstrike's Japanese X-Men > Forge's Chinese X-Men.

[rajincajun689]

I'm really holding out that X-Men will become a team book after legacy ends its last arc. Mike Carey is too good at writing a set team not be allowed to do it.

[SayOcean]

yeah this whole rotatiing cast thing kinda sucks...the continuity problems are annoying....i miss the blue and gold teams

[Novaya Havoc]

To me the real problem is Astonishing X-Men, it comes out once in a decade, so they have to shoehorn the main cast into another book so they can be part of storylines that does matter.

the whole "rotating cast" & "one big army" thing has really floundered so far. And I think readers are now aware of how b/s it is--considering we've seen characters like Karma, Cannonball & Dazzler who were originally lauded as being "team members" and "part of the book" relegated to being wallpaper in UXM.

AXM is going at a painfully slow rate. Painfully.

I really wish the books were team based. I'm sick of the characters fans have been clamoring for in the books being shuffled to the back, only poking their heads up every 15 panels while Cyclops pretends to manage them (when he's really only managing the same 6 characters across several books) & Emma (whom I do love) throws her boobs around. It's getting very old, very fast.

Agreed. With both.

Emma Frost must die and leave my X-Books.

[Omega Alpha]

Which are the 3 X books with one team? There's only AXM, that never comes out, and Uncanny. With only a few mutants in the world, there is no point in having 4 or 5 different teams that will only do the same thing.

And, sorry, but anyone saying that they are "missing the Blue/Gold division" is talking nonsense. Those teams had, at most, two or three stories separated from each other. Between the big megacrossovers and simply stories that used both of them, the separation never really existed after Jim Lee left. The first time you had really a proper separation between the books was with Morrison, Casey and Claremont.

[americocaine]

You got your wish its a reverse time warp back to the 90's right now with New Mutants and ANOTHER Claremont X-Project about the 90's era go figure. I always hear the X-books need to get back on par with The Avengers sales wise but its always one step backwards with this franchise.

[Seres]

There are four different teams going around at the moment, and two more on the way: Young X-Men, Uncanny X-Men, X-Force, X-Factor; and then the Starjammers in WoK, and the New Mutants. That's loads!

[Novaya Havoc]

Which are the 3 X books with one team? There's only AXM, that never comes out, and Uncanny. With only a few mutants in the world, there is no point in having 4 or 5 different teams that will only do the same thing.

And, sorry, but anyone saying that they are "missing the Blue/Gold division" is talking nonsense. Those teams had, at most, two or three stories separated from each other. Between the big megacrossovers and simply stories that used both of them, the separation never really existed after Jim Lee left. The first time you had really a proper separation between the books was with Morrison, Casey and Claremont.

Yes, but the Blue/Gold teams -- and the two books (X-Men and Uncanny) -- didn't just feature Rogue, Gambit, and Wolverine.

Now all books just feature Emma Frost, Cyclops, and Wolverine. And if they rotate someone else in, it's boring boring boring boring boring COLOSSUS.

NYET, TOVARISCH!

[Pro]

The whole problem I think I'm having with the books right now is that everything seems to be filler material until the Messiah returns.

Wait while baby jesus grows and in the meantime here's some other stories.

[SayOcean]

yeah i felt like when i read old comics and someone pops up they are gonna have something to do with the storyline...not just filler or say hey to emma, or get bitchslapped, so cyclops and his boys look cool

[Omega Alpha]

Yes, but the Blue/Gold teams -- and the two books (X-Men and Uncanny) -- didn't just feature Rogue, Gambit, and Wolverine.

Now all books just feature Emma Frost, Cyclops, and Wolverine. And if they rotate someone else in, it's boring boring boring boring boring COLOSSUS.

NYET, TOVARISCH!

AXM so far has been good in using the ensemble, there wasn't one character getting much more spotlight than the other.

As for Uncanny, Wolverine has barely appeared. Meanwhile, you had important roles (even if not necessarily all good ones) for Cyclops, Pixie, Colossus, Emma, Beast and Angel. And what if it features Cyclops, Emma or Wolverine more than some D-lister? They are more important for the X-men than Karma or Dazzler or (insert random character name here). So, yes, they will have more spotlight. Should they sacrifice some important characters to make room for random Z-listers? I think not.

[Novaya Havoc]

So, yes, they will have more spotlight. Should they sacrifice some important characters to make room for random Z-listers? I think not.

Chew glass and stab yourself with dirty infected needles.

"Important" to me equates NOT BORING AS HELL. Cyclops, Emma, Pixie, and especially Colossus have passed this threshold eons ago.

[Omega Alpha]

Maybe to you, but, just like people saying that Wolverine isn't interesting anymore, that Tony Stark is an irredeamable bastard, etc, etc, most people disagree with you, and they ain't changing things because a couple of people think that Dazzler is more interesting than all the X-men.

[Novaya Havoc]

Maybe to you, but, just like people saying that Wolverine isn't interesting anymore, that Tony Stark is an irredeamable bastard, etc, etc, most people disagree with you, and they ain't changing things because a couple of people think that Dazzler is more interesting than all the X-men.

It has nothing to do with Dazzler.

It has everything to do with Colossus, Emma, and Cyclops being boring.

[blehbeh]

To respond to the "no team" complaints, the X-Editors have said things like "well, we have AXM, X-Force, X-Factor, and Young X-Men (soon New Mutants) with set teams." And I mean, they're right. There really ARE plenty of X-Characters featured in monthly (or sort of monthly) books.

The problem is, that the current state of Uncanny and Legacy kind of make people, including myself, forget that. And for good reason. They really hyped up the "rotating cast" of Uncanny, and how great it would be, and how you'd see everyone, and everyone would get their time in the sun in this awesome book. We know that there's a million X-Men living in San Francisco as part of the X-Men. The problem, even if we get a Colossus side story, or Kurt says a few things in German, or Cannonball has a drink in a bar, is that we're only getting a taste of them. We want more, because we used to get so much more. We used to feel like part of the family. Now, we barely know anything that's going on with these characters. They're distant. We don't even know who the X-Men are anymore, literally. The writers don't bother to "let us in" like they used to, or explain little details that used to be such commonplace. I'd say it was almost better when these characters were in limbo and never seen. At least then we weren't tempted.

So, because we're having just pieces of our favorite characters dangled in our faces, a book like Legacy annoys us. Now, I think Legacy is a great book. But in a time when so many characters are basically being ignored, devoting a book solely to Xavier and whoever wanders into his quest, seems like a waste of space.

The bottom line is....Fraction's Uncanny X-Men is making the rest of the line suffer. It's a horrible failure as a flagship title. If you shut off your brain and take it for it is, it can be a decent read. But I can't wait until he's gone and they change the status quo.

[Omega Alpha]

To respond to the "no team" complaints, the X-Editors have said things like "well, we have AXM, X-Force, X-Factor, and Young X-Men (soon New Mutants) with set teams." And I mean, they're right. There really ARE plenty of X-Characters featured in monthly (or sort of monthly) books.

The problem is, that the current state of Uncanny and Legacy kind of make people, including myself, forget that. And for good reason. They really hyped up the "rotating cast" of Uncanny, and how great it would be, and how you'd see everyone, and everyone would get their time in the sun in this awesome book. We know that there's a million X-Men living in San Francisco as part of the X-Men. The problem, even if we get a Colossus side story, or Kurt says a few things in German, or Cannonball has a drink in a bar, is that we're only getting a taste of them. We want more, because we used to get so much more. We used to feel like part of the family. Now, we barely know anything that's going on with these characters. They're distant. We don't even know who the X-Men are anymore, literally. The writers don't bother to "let us in" like they used to, or explain little details that used to be such commonplace. I'd say it was almost better when these characters were in limbo and never seen. At least then we weren't tempted.

So, because we're having just pieces of our favorite characters dangled in our faces, a book like Legacy annoys us. Now, I think Legacy is a great book. But in a time when so many characters are basically being ignored, devoting a book solely to Xavier and whoever wanders into his quest, seems like a waste of space.

The bottom line is....Fraction's Uncanny X-Men is making the rest of the line suffer. It's a horrible failure as a flagship title. If you shut off your brain and take it for it is, it can be a decent read. But I can't wait until he's gone and they change the status quo.


Well, for one thing, the AXM delays and insular feel really avoid Uncanny from becoming a completely rotating cast book. If it was regularly released and was more connected with the MU, you could have Cyclops efforts to save mutantkind, Beast trying to increase the mutant population, etc, all shown there. But it isn't, and Marvel realized before that they just can't let these characters not appear regularly in a book, like it happened in 2006/07, specially considering now that you have 5 of, if not the top 5 most popular X-men currently in the cast. So a writer like Fraction can either show what Cyclops, Emma, Beast, are doing, or ignore and let the story never be told. The coice is pretty obvious to me.

[CE_Rap]

AXM so far has been good in using the ensemble, there wasn't one character getting much more spotlight than the other.

As for Uncanny, Wolverine has barely appeared. Meanwhile, you had important roles (even if not necessarily all good ones) for Cyclops, Pixie, Colossus, Emma, Beast and Angel. And what if it features Cyclops, Emma or Wolverine more than some D-lister? They are more important for the X-men than Karma or Dazzler or (insert random character name here). So, yes, they will have more spotlight. Should they sacrifice some important characters to make room for random Z-listers? I think not.

True, but it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to have insight as to what everyone else is doing from time to time. Dazzler and Shan are good examples because they ARE at the SanFran base, so how can we never see them? This can be accomplished without being obligated to shoehorn them into the main story.

I remember everyone on these boards having joygasms because when Carey was doing the "children of the vault" arc, he had lots of "new X-Men" cameos. He wasn't t shoving Rogue's team out of the spotlight at all---on the contrary it added immense depth. CArey pretty much says "yes we're at the school, and yes, these kids are X-men, no matter how green---so YES, we will naturally see them interact from time to time."

I think that's the only argument being made. I mean, I often forget just who the hell is on this SanFran base and still considered on an x-team because they seem to always disappear. I'm not a Dazzler nut, but i gotta admit, considering she's on a few cover with an x-suit, I've kind of forgotten she's even around. And I don't need some big arc or a special story devoted to her to do that.

[MuhollandDriver]

i can see both side of the issues.

That being said...i think it can be agreed upon that Uncanny, the "flagship" title....has not lived up to expectations.

There are many reasons for this.

The Astonishing aspect is a very good point. While Whedon's run was in its own little world (especially near the end), I still felt like I was among the X-World. So far, Astonishing by Ellis feels very, very isolated from everything else.

It also needs to come out more regularly. i really don't have much patience for that..especially since the result so far is a mildly interesting plot that moves at a tiptoe pace. The witty characterizations help, but fail to compensate.

A good way to fix this? Keep Astonishing a specialty book, but have it focus on the allstar cast's motives...Emma and Scott's relationship...Beast's mission to save mutantkind...Storm's struggle to balance the X-Men and Wakanda.

That way...the Uncanny cast can be a healthy blend of allstars, cult heroes, and newcomers.

Something should be done. Uncanny is far from what the writers intended. i remember those multiple interviews..talking of rotating casts and stories, bringing Dazzler back into the fold, The New Mutants being used, etc. The read is really no different than before this "new, exciting direction".

While i don't think blame can be placed on any one thing, we readers have a right to be disappointed. Uncanny didn't deliver on its promise.

[Steven F.]

i can see both side of the issues.

That being said...i think it can be agreed upon that Uncanny, the "flagship" title....has not lived up to expectations.

There are many reasons for this.

The Astonishing aspect is a very good point. While Whedon's run was in its own little world (especially near the end), I still felt like I was among the X-World. So far, Astonishing by Ellis feels very, very isolated from everything else.

It also needs to come out more regularly. i really don't have much patience for that..especially since the result so far is a mildly interesting plot that moves at a tiptoe pace. The witty characterizations help, but fail to compensate.

A good way to fix this? Keep Astonishing a specialty book, but have it focus on the allstar cast's motives...Emma and Scott's relationship...Beast's mission to save mutantkind...Storm's struggle to balance the X-Men and Wakanda.

That way...the Uncanny cast can be a healthy blend of allstars, cult heroes, and newcomers.

Something should be done. Uncanny is far from what the writers intended. i remember those multiple interviews..talking of rotating casts and stories, bringing Dazzler back into the fold, The New Mutants being used, etc. The read is really no different than before this "new, exciting direction".

While i don't think blame can be placed on any one thing, we readers have a right to be disappointed. Uncanny didn't deliver on its promise.

This was a very good post. It really does explain what the problems are. Nice job.

[Novaya Havoc]

i can see both side of the issues.

That being said...i think it can be agreed upon that Uncanny, the "flagship" title....has not lived up to expectations.

There are many reasons for this.

The Astonishing aspect is a very good point. While Whedon's run was in its own little world (especially near the end), I still felt like I was among the X-World. So far, Astonishing by Ellis feels very, very isolated from everything else.

It also needs to come out more regularly. i really don't have much patience for that..especially since the result so far is a mildly interesting plot that moves at a tiptoe pace. The witty characterizations help, but fail to compensate.

A good way to fix this? Keep Astonishing a specialty book, but have it focus on the allstar cast's motives...Emma and Scott's relationship...Beast's mission to save mutantkind...Storm's struggle to balance the X-Men and Wakanda.

That way...the Uncanny cast can be a healthy blend of allstars, cult heroes, and newcomers.

Something should be done. Uncanny is far from what the writers intended. i remember those multiple interviews..talking of rotating casts and stories, bringing Dazzler back into the fold, The New Mutants being used, etc. The read is really no different than before this "new, exciting direction".

While i don't think blame can be placed on any one thing, we readers have a right to be disappointed. Uncanny didn't deliver on its promise.

Perfection. This is exactly what I would say, except I would do it with more expletives and accusations of steroid-fetishes and homophobia.

[CE_Rap]

give MuhollandDriver a cookie:cool:

[MuhollandDriver]

Awwww well thanks everyone. i love mint cookies :)

Go for the accusations, Novaya!

i will create a protest, with signs saying

"How dare You almost kill Anole even though he's alive and well today!"

[Novaya Havoc]

Awwww well thanks everyone. i love mint cookies :)

Go for the accusations, Novaya!

i will create a protest, with signs saying

"How dare You almost kill Anole even though he's alive and well today!"

My sign reads:

"STOP TRYING TO MAKE GHOST RIDER, BLACK PANTHER, BISHOP, OR CABLE HAPPEN! THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, GRETCHEN!!!!"

or

"PLEASE AVOID THE INEVITABLE JEAN/EMMA MADONNA/WHORE DICHOTOMY CLICHE THAT WILL CONSUME THE X-LINE THIS YEAR!!!!"

[MuhollandDriver]

My sign reads:

"STOP TRYING TO MAKE GHOST RIDER, BLACK PANTHER, BISHOP, OR CABLE HAPPEN! THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, GRETCHEN!!!!"

or

"PLEASE AVOID THE INEVITABLE JEAN/EMMA MADONNA/WHORE DICHOTOMY CLICHE THAT WILL CONSUME THE X-LINE THIS YEAR!!!!"

Bwahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

"How dare You never explored Karma's sexuality in New Mutants volume one!"

"Magma as a lava-vomiting asgardian gnome was a direct attack on my sexuality!"

"The death of Doug Rhamsey was a hate crime against a character that might have been retconned as gay many years down the road! Explain!"

[lockerogue]

i can see both side of the issues.

That being said...i think it can be agreed upon that Uncanny, the "flagship" title....has not lived up to expectations.

There are many reasons for this.

The Astonishing aspect is a very good point. While Whedon's run was in its own little world (especially near the end), I still felt like I was among the X-World. So far, Astonishing by Ellis feels very, very isolated from everything else.

It also needs to come out more regularly. i really don't have much patience for that..especially since the result so far is a mildly interesting plot that moves at a tiptoe pace. The witty characterizations help, but fail to compensate.

A good way to fix this? Keep Astonishing a specialty book, but have it focus on the allstar cast's motives...Emma and Scott's relationship...Beast's mission to save mutantkind...Storm's struggle to balance the X-Men and Wakanda.

That way...the Uncanny cast can be a healthy blend of allstars, cult heroes, and newcomers.

Something should be done. Uncanny is far from what the writers intended. i remember those multiple interviews..talking of rotating casts and stories, bringing Dazzler back into the fold, The New Mutants being used, etc. The read is really no different than before this "new, exciting direction".

While i don't think blame can be placed on any one thing, we readers have a right to be disappointed. Uncanny didn't deliver on its promise.

This post wins this thread.

[x_goalkeeper]

ok other than the legacy run right now, why do we need 3 x-men books with
basically the same cast?

none of the books seem to mesh with each other [members talking about various missions that happened in the other books].

i kind of miss the old gold and blue teams of the 90's.

anybody else having the same thoughts as me?

Maybe it is I that is missing something but what are the 3 X-Men titles that have the same cast?

I like it if there are 3 X-Men books with the core cast and different supporting cast. It is more opportunity to read about my favorite characters! :biggrin:

[eurazn]

I like it if there are 3 X-Men books with the core cast and different supporting cast. It is more opportunity to read about my favorite characters! :biggrin:

I'm sorry, x, but I have to refer you back to Muholland's post (post #34) which is officially the gold standard of this thread.

However, to expound upon it, if your favorite characters are Cyclops, Emma, and Wolverine, then I suppose you'd be quite happy. However, the "supporting" characters have had such little development they are never suitably fleshed out or explored.

[x_goalkeeper]

I'm sorry, x, but I have to refer you back to Muholland's post (post #34) which is officially the gold standard of this thread.

However, to expound upon it, if your favorite characters are Cyclops, Emma, and Wolverine, then I suppose you'd be quite happy. However, the "supporting" characters have had such little development they are never suitably fleshed out or explored.

I like Cyclops and Emma a lot, Wolverine not so much. So maybe it is hard for me to understand any negative about the current X-titles like you are saying :smile:

[Omega Alpha]

You know, it's funny that before MC, I remember a lot of people complaining that there were too many X-books and that they would prefer to see only one, with only one team. With Legacy focusing on Xavier and AXM almost out of continuity, you can say that you have only 1 X-men book and 1 X-men team in Uncanny. And guess what? People are complaining that several characters are not getting enough spotlight. But what do you think would happen with only one X-men book?

[x_goalkeeper]

You know, it's funny that before MC, I remember a lot of people complaining that there were too many X-books and that they would prefer to see only one, with only one team. With Legacy focusing on Xavier and AXM almost out of continuity, you can say that you have only 1 X-men book and 1 X-men team in Uncanny. And guess what? People are complaining that several characters are not getting enough spotlight. But what do you think would happen with only one X-men book?

I think if there were only 1 x-book many characters would not be seen. Some characters you may wait months or years to see :eek:

[MarvelGirlBoy]

I feel sorry for you all...
Unable to appreciate the exciting adventures of Fringe Science Team.

May 2009 previews will reveal the upcoming pitched battle between hairy McLairy's troop and smallpox!
Watch out for some great character beats of everyone's favourite character, the good white Doctor, and more attempts to make Angel just as interesting as Archangel.

[ExodusCloak]

After reading Manifest Destiny and the Christmas Special, I realize why I don't want to see certain D-listers in a book for more then 3 panels. I prefer the way the line up is now.

The focus at the moment is Emma, Scott, Angel, Beast, Wolverine, Pixie and Colossus.

First story focused on the move....Emma and Scott are going to be the focus for a while (Dark Reign and X-Force). Colossus got his own backstory and Beast is getting his in the X-Club. And Magneto is coming back a long with Psylocke. The New Mutants are being taken care off.

[Novaya Havoc]

I feel sorry for you all...
Unable to appreciate the exciting adventures of Fringe Science Team.

May 2009 previews will reveal the upcoming pitched battle between hairy McLairy's troop and smallpox!
Watch out for some great character beats of everyone's favourite character, the good white Doctor, and more attempts to make Angel just as interesting as Archangel.

I love the Fringe Science Team. Since I can only get my ER fix 4 times per month, it's nice to know that via Uncanny X-Men, I can experience HIGH TENSION MEDICAL DRAMA five times per month!

[rwsmith]

As someone else mentioned regarding Wolverine, he's hardly in Uncanny at all. And Astonishing comes out so infrequently that it hardly counts IMO.

Having said that, I do think Fraction needs to spread the love around a bit more with regards to his cast. We've been seeing Colossus and Pixie get some serious screen-time, but I'd like to see more Dazzler and Karma in particular. The X-books have really lost focus on their female characters except for Emma these days. Oh, and I'd also like to see Rogue back. Don't care about Psylocke (she's too convoluted, plus ninjas are so 1990's).

With Nightcrawler quitting and Wolverine getting so much exposure elsewhere, I'd imagine we'll start to see more of the other folks running around the X-mansion. Hopefully they take a little focus off of Scott, Emma, Beast and Angel as well, seeing as how all of them appear in at least one other X-title.

[KiplingKat]

You know, it's funny that before MC, I remember a lot of people complaining that there were too many X-books and that they would prefer to see only one, with only one team. With Legacy focusing on Xavier and AXM almost out of continuity, you can say that you have only 1 X-men book and 1 X-men team in Uncanny. And guess what? People are complaining that several characters are not getting enough spotlight. But what do you think would happen with only one X-men book?

Astonishing is not out of continuity. It's not a "What if..." story.

And Astonishing is actually far better, despite it delays and occasionally dragged out action. The characterization is really good. Uncanny's is not. Ellis actually addressed *WHY* Scott has become a Magneto wannabe, unlike Bruction who does not feel such a drastic change in character needs any explanation. Ellis actually gives time to *all* the characters on the team as opposed to Brutcion who focuses on Scott, Emma, and Logan and everyone else just makes non-character developing cameos. Ellis is actually doing something truly new in Astonishing pages, new stories, with new villains and new situations. Heck he was the one who set up the fact that the X-Men are police consultants. As opposed to Bructon who just meandering through the same old stuff with a different backdrop (even though it is not actually that different, the X-Men have relocated to SF after the Mutant Massacre).

So if we're being given a choice between titles, if we have to chuck out a book Emma, Scott, and Logan on the team. I'd chuck out Uncanny. The characters in Astonishing pages actually get developed and we are actually reading new stories there.

[MuhollandDriver]

*shrug* Some of it does come down to whether You like certain characters or not.

If You are a big fan of Cyclops, Emma, and Wolverine....You are likely happier than others.

You can run objective arguments into the ground, but at the end of the day..Your subjective tastes will decide.

Personally, i like Wolverine. i don't read his solo series or his mini's. In a group team situation...i actually like him a lot. Is he overexposed? Probably. Nonetheless...since i don't read his solo or minis....and i like his character....i am fine.

Scott is OK to me. i don't sorely dislike him like some....but he has never interested me. There are times in the history of X-Men that i have found him quite unlikable...but i don't hate him like others. His huge exposure the past couple of years is something i -have- noticed...moreso than Wolverine..because he is a character i'd rather not read about in bulk. Nonetheless,that is my own subjective taste. Just because i'd be happy if he got less panel time..doesn't mean the writers should follow that. If he inspires the writers...so be it. All of this being said....i didn't mind him in Joss Whedon's run....this is an issue i will touch upon further down!

Emma is in between the two for me. With a good writer...she soars. Often...she is written as either way too placid....or unnecessarily mean spirited, unlikable, and frankly, undeserving of being where she is. Grant Morrison did great by her..it is a balancing act that few writers have accomplished since.
Matt Fraction's Dark Reign solo on her made me realize again that, if written well, i could be good with her current big exposure.

Which comes down to much of the issue! Is a comic's failure or success really about the characters, or how they are written?

X-Force has X-23 and Warpath. i've never cared about either character. The writing and characterization in this comic is so wonderful, it doesn't really matter.

i can't say the same about Uncanny.

If readers aren't happy with the storytelling, then other issues...like not liking the lead characters, the setting, etc...will become much more visible.

Young X-Men is another example of this. If the plots, characterization, and artwork were wonderful, the issues about not liking the new characters, or lamenting the loss of New X-Men characters, wouldn't have been as strong. Heck...if the run was at least decent...the backlash would have been less.

If Uncanny X-Men currently featured stories that were captivating..and if it fulfilled its rotating cast concept successfully, i believe the complaints about Cyclops overexposure would decrease significantly.

[Novaya Havoc]

*shrug* Some of it does come down to whether You like certain characters or not.

If You are a big fan of Cyclops, Emma, and Wolverine....You are likely happier than others.

You can run objective arguments into the ground, but at the end of the day..Your subjective tastes will decide.

Personally, i like Wolverine. i don't read his solo series or his mini's. In a group team situation...i actually like him a lot. Is he overexposed? Probably. Nonetheless...since i don't read his solo or minis....and i like his character....i am fine.

Scott is OK to me. i don't sorely dislike him like some....but he has never interested me. There are times in the history of X-Men that i have found him quite unlikable...but i don't hate him like others. His huge exposure the past couple of years is something i -have- noticed...moreso than Wolverine..because he is a character i'd rather not read about in bulk. Nonetheless,that is my own subjective taste. Just because i'd be happy if he got less panel time..doesn't mean the writers should follow that. If he inspires the writers...so be it. All of this being said....i didn't mind him in Joss Whedon's run....this is an issue i will touch upon further down!

Emma is in between the two for me. With a good writer...she soars. Often...she is written as either way too placid....or unnecessarily mean spirited, unlikable, and frankly, undeserving of being where she is. Grant Morrison did great by her..it is a balancing act that few writers have accomplished since.
Matt Fraction's Dark Reign solo on her made me realize again that, if written well, i could be good with her current big exposure.

Which comes down to much of the issue! Is a comic's failure or success really about the characters, or how they are written?

X-Force has X-23 and Warpath. i've never cared about either character. The writing and characterization in this comic is so wonderful, it doesn't really matter.

i can't say the same about Uncanny.

If readers aren't happy with the storytelling, then other issues...like not liking the lead characters, the setting, etc...will become much more visible. If Uncanny X-Men currently featured stories that were captivating..and if it fulfilled its rotating cast concept successfully, i believe the complaints about Cyclops overexposure would decrease significantly.

Word.

In truth, Emma was probably my #2 X-Female. I liked her a lot under Brubaker, and dug some of the character work he was hinting at between the two and their functionally dysfunctional relationship (Emma and Shanna talking in the Savage Land).

The problem is that the X-Line is HUGE on females. Call it Claremazon syndrome. And in Uncanny? All we get is Emma Frost, and at this point, I don't feel like reading the Cyclops/Emma Frost ongoing -- and that's what it is. Dressing up 1980s Kitty Pryde in Pixie wings with a soul dagger doesn't help matters much, either. Rogue's off in CareyLand? Fine. You have Storm, Dazzler, Karma, and a milieu of other females... and don't use them? You're setting yourself up for criticism.


I have no problem with these characters. Not even Wolverine. The problem I have with the book is that it's damn boring and focusing on boring characters and boring subplots. Beast and Colossus just need to quit being in Uncanny in total: did Endangered Species (sorry, Yost) not teach us anything on the narcoleptic nature of the Beast as a character?

And what is Angel doing in Uncanny? Not much, considering all of his character work is occurring in X-Force. So what's the point? Angel without a motivation is boring -- and I like Angel.

I kept saying: with this new "save the species" socio-political media war that Fraction teases at, he doesn't run with it. Instead he bores us with a Colossus/Beast/Angel (sausage snoozefest!) "Science Team" side-plot, and the ongoing relationship Madonna/Whore dichotomy that involves Dead!Jean (or Madelyne, if you prefer)/Emma/Cyclops.

You take a concept like the death of a race, a "Sanctuary City" (SanFran), link up all the mutants -- including basically the premier mutant celebrity, a worldwide politician, and THE mutant billionaire (Dazzler/Storm/Angel, for those not getting the reference) -- and the best you can do is dress up Kitty Pryde in Pixie drag, give us more BEAST stories, and showcase Emma and Cyclops' special breeder melodrama every month?

Run with the damn concept. Uncanny flirts with it. Don't tease my damn hole: fist it already. I'm ready to break on through to the other side.

[KiplingKat]

In truth, Emma was probably my #2 X-Female. I liked her a lot under Brubaker, and dug some of the character work he was hinting at between the two and their functionally dysfunctional relationship (Emma and Shanna talking in the Savage Land).

Actually, I found that moment to utterly out of character for her. When has Emma ever dished Girl Talk, and with a complete stranger no less?

Whedon was the one who captured Scott and Emma's dysfunctionally-functional relationship. Brubaker turned Emma into Scott's Cheerleader GF.

[Novaya Havoc]

Actually, I found that moment to utterly out of character for her. When has Emma ever dished Girl Talk, and with a complete stranger no less?

Whedon was the one who captured Scott and Emma's dysfunctional relationship. Brubaker turned Emma into Scott's Cheerleader GF.

Madonna/Whore, Madonna/Whore, Madonna/Whore. It's the modus operandi for writers and Emma Frost. It's Emma 101, essentially.

If Emma is going to be the premier exclusive #1 X-Men Female then she needs to have some pillow talk and some female friends. Hard to do when there are no other chicks in the title, and the only ones that interact with her are a foreign dignitary (Storm) or her student (Pixie). This is why I enjoyed Bru softening her a bit, because it was taking her out of that snark-cycle.

I liked that direction for Emma, because if she's going to be the "New Matriarch" of the X-Men, writers need to stop falling back on the Madonna/Whore crutch. But that's what is happening: IS EMMA GOOD? IS EMMA BAD?! IS EMMA CRAZY!? IS EMMA REFORMED!? Welcome to frickin' 1996: PHALANX COVENANT, writers. It's over. Pick and choose. Stop falling back on the Madonna/Whore.

2009 is just going to be worse, because I smell the inevitable return of Jean (which is fine), but it's just going to be all supra-Madonna/Whore between the two, with Cyclops in the middle. Madelyne is just a taste of this "epic drama" that will unfold.

I'd rather read a comic about Psylocke working herself with a peach-flavored douche in a Dreamboat CC comic than read more about X-Writers' complete obsession with Jean/Emma and the tired ass Madonna/Whore concept, with Cyclops in the middle as some hetero Mary Sue outlet for the male writers.

[Seres]

Word.

In truth, Emma was probably my #2 X-Female. I liked her a lot under Brubaker, and dug some of the character work he was hinting at between the two and their functionally dysfunctional relationship (Emma and Shanna talking in the Savage Land).

The problem is that the X-Line is HUGE on females. Call it Claremazon syndrome. And in Uncanny? All we get is Emma Frost, and at this point, I don't feel like reading the Cyclops/Emma Frost ongoing -- and that's what it is. Dressing up 1980s Kitty Pryde in Pixie wings with a soul dagger doesn't help matters much, either. Rogue's off in CareyLand? Fine. You have Storm, Dazzler, Karma, and a milieu of other females... and don't use them? You're setting yourself up for criticism.


I have no problem with these characters. Not even Wolverine. The problem I have with the book is that it's damn boring and focusing on boring characters and boring subplots. Beast and Colossus just need to quit being in Uncanny in total: did Endangered Species (sorry, Yost) not teach us anything on the narcoleptic nature of the Beast as a character?

And what is Angel doing in Uncanny? Not much, considering all of his character work is occurring in X-Force. So what's the point? Angel without a motivation is boring -- and I like Angel.

I kept saying: with this new "save the species" socio-political media war that Fraction teases at, he doesn't run with it. Instead he bores us with a Colossus/Beast/Angel (sausage snoozefest!) "Science Team" side-plot, and the ongoing relationship Madonna/Whore dichotomy that involves Dead!Jean (or Madelyne, if you prefer)/Emma/Cyclops.

You take a concept like the death of a race, a "Sanctuary City" (SanFran), link up all the mutants -- including basically the premier mutant celebrity, a worldwide politician, and THE mutant billionaire (Dazzler/Storm/Angel, for those not getting the reference) -- and the best you can do is dress up Kitty Pryde in Pixie drag, give us more BEAST stories, and showcase Emma and Cyclops' special breeder melodrama every month?

Run with the damn concept. Uncanny flirts with it. Don't tease my damn hole: fist it already. I'm ready to break on through to the other side.

But so far he's only written six issues, and the first three of those were an introduction story for new readers to the line. After Brubaker's momentum killing Divided We Stand storyline, he's slowly reintroduced a LOT of characters into the fold. Storm, Karma, Dazzler, he's had to deal with Whedon's Astonishing finale for Colossus, he's set up Beast's science team, he put Armor X-23 and Pixie in a room together, and he formed a group which features Spiral and both Mastermind daughters and Lady Deathstrike in it. And (inadvertantly or not, who knows) he set up a storyline for New Mutants with Empath and played hints with the X-Force storylines.

That's quite a lot of stuff! You've got no patience, you have, Novaya!

[MuhollandDriver]

Word.

In truth, Emma was probably my #2 X-Female. I liked her a lot under Brubaker, and dug some of the character work he was hinting at between the two and their functionally dysfunctional relationship (Emma and Shanna talking in the Savage Land).

The problem is that the X-Line is HUGE on females. Call it Claremazon syndrome. And in Uncanny? All we get is Emma Frost, and at this point, I don't feel like reading the Cyclops/Emma Frost ongoing -- and that's what it is. Dressing up 1980s Kitty Pryde in Pixie wings with a soul dagger doesn't help matters much, either. Rogue's off in CareyLand? Fine. You have Storm, Dazzler, Karma, and a milieu of other females... and don't use them? You're setting yourself up for criticism.


I have no problem with these characters. Not even Wolverine. The problem I have with the book is that it's damn boring and focusing on boring characters and boring subplots. Beast and Colossus just need to quit being in Uncanny in total: did Endangered Species (sorry, Yost) not teach us anything on the narcoleptic nature of the Beast as a character?

And what is Angel doing in Uncanny? Not much, considering all of his character work is occurring in X-Force. So what's the point? Angel without a motivation is boring -- and I like Angel.

I kept saying: with this new "save the species" socio-political media war that Fraction teases at, he doesn't run with it. Instead he bores us with a Colossus/Beast/Angel (sausage snoozefest!) "Science Team" side-plot, and the ongoing relationship Madonna/Whore dichotomy that involves Dead!Jean (or Madelyne, if you prefer)/Emma/Cyclops.

You take a concept like the death of a race, a "Sanctuary City" (SanFran), link up all the mutants -- including basically the premier mutant celebrity, a worldwide politician, and THE mutant billionaire (Dazzler/Storm/Angel, for those not getting the reference) -- and the best you can do is dress up Kitty Pryde in Pixie drag, give us more BEAST stories, and showcase Emma and Cyclops' special breeder melodrama every month?

Run with the damn concept. Uncanny flirts with it. Don't tease my damn hole: fist it already. I'm ready to break on through to the other side.

*laughs* Holy shit :) Many good points here. i agree...the move to San Fransisco had so many different potential directions to pursue. Here we are again...Scott/Emma drama, Pixie in a tired archetype role....Beasts science fringe team..errr.....:).

That being said...i go back to my point! While these writing choices aren't particularly interesting to me.....if these choices were written well....i'd take more interest..good writing is good writing.

As for X-Females.....i completely agree with You. X-Men used to be a rarity: a place where women could truly be strong, complex, independent, human, everything. The team is now a typical alpha-male lineup. Matt Fraction even discussed this problem in an interview..so far....i'm not sure he knows how to fix it.

Yes...i know many will now use the "Claremazon" or "Mary Sue" tag.....perhaps it is deserved. You know what, though? Superman, Green Lantern, heck even Iron Man, has done ridiculously over-the-top stunts to save the day with their powers....and i don't see them getting similar labels.

Women used to be the emotional core of that comic.....it saddens me to see that go. Yes...that is my subjective view.

However...i say it again! If the writing were good...the stories engaging...if the writer took his mostly male cast in interesting places....i'd be more forgiving of these issues.

[KiplingKat]

If Emma is going to be the premier exclusive #1 X-Men Female then she needs to have some pillow talk and some female friends.

Jean and Storm didn't for most of their X-Chick careers. I think Emma's relationship with Hank was her equivalent of "girl friends", the two shared common tastes which gave them a common ground. Emma has never shown herself be one to "hang out with the girls". Now Ellis might be developing Emma and Ororo into friends, that would be a very interesting to see play out. But he seems to be doing so in a manner that is true to both their characters. (Not all women do the "girlfriends" thing, I have no shopping gene, or a shoes gene. None. Just does not interest me. I also have no interest in make up or fashion, so I don't hang out with a lot of girls. I actually have a lot more fun hanging out with guys since we share more common interests.)

I agree with most of what you are saying, I just did not find Brubaker's character work in Uncanny to be very good at all.

[Novaya Havoc]

But so far he's only written six issues, and the first three of those were an introduction story for new readers to the line. After Brubaker's momentum killing Divided We Stand storyline, he's slowly reintroduced a LOT of characters into the fold. Storm, Karma, Dazzler, he's had to deal with Whedon's Astonishing finale for Colossus, he's set up Beast's science team, he put Armor X-23 and Pixie in a room together, and he formed a group which features Spiral and both Mastermind daughters and Lady Deathstrike in it. And (inadvertantly or not, who knows) he set up a storyline for New Mutants with Empath and played hints with the X-Force storylines.

That's quite a lot of stuff! You've got no patience, you have, Novaya!

Previews are out until April.

No. It's been a long time since the gilded age of UNCANNY #500 SET TO BREAK ALL THE MOLDS!

Armor/X-23/Pixie?

May as well call it Old!Karma/Illyana/Shadowcat.
Science team? This subplot is running on E. I will never understand who in the damn universe thinks Beast is intriguing, much less why Marvel Editorial thinks it's fun!!!! to use him. When we needed a medical plot device in the olden days, CC said two Ochs! and took a shot of highland scotch as he dragged Moira MacTaggert's ass from the vault every time as needed. Beast is now this new crutch, and -- like Moira -- he's just as freakin' boring and shoehorned.

Storm/Karma/Dazzler have done jack all in Uncanny. Karma/Dazzler doing less I understand -- but Storm? A foreign politician?! When Fraction is about to push his "Proposition X" story later this year? No excuse.

But that Pixie sure is damn spunky. And the medical dramas of Beast and Colossus sure is damn riveting.

[MuhollandDriver]

But so far he's only written six issues, and the first three of those were an introduction story for new readers to the line. After Brubaker's momentum killing Divided We Stand storyline, he's slowly reintroduced a LOT of characters into the fold. Storm, Karma, Dazzler, he's had to deal with Whedon's Astonishing finale for Colossus, he's set up Beast's science team, he put Armor X-23 and Pixie in a room together, and he formed a group which features Spiral and both Mastermind daughters and Lady Deathstrike in it. And (inadvertantly or not, who knows) he set up a storyline for New Mutants with Empath and played hints with the X-Force storylines.

That's quite a lot of stuff! You've got no patience, you have, Novaya!

i have even fallen into the "But it was the first arc" trap. i did with Young X-Men.

Then...i think about new series that are wonderful from issue one. Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain Britain and the MI13, Agents of Atlas.......

Is "but it's only been six issues!" really a solid excuse?

Novaya makes some great points on Emma. Poor Wonder Woman has often fallen into this...being written from a man's point of view....not her own point of view. The same is often done with Emma and many female characters.

For the poster who said that Storm didn't have female friends during her time as a fulltime X-Man...not true. Anyone remember the reunion in Inferno with her and Jean? It was touching. How about the issue with she and the other female members at a club....Dazzler encouraging Storm to dance with a dancer. Even the bizarre "mother/daughter" relationship with Kitty counts for something.

All that being said....An interesting relationship between Emma and Storm has been developing across the comics. The Storm mini even touched upon it.

i stated that a friendship between the two could be interesting...and several people scoffed! Hate to say i told You so......err...*ducks*

[KiplingKat]

For the poster who said that Storm didn't have female friends during her time as a fulltime X-Man...not true. Anyone remember the reunion in Inferno with her and Jean? It was touching.

That's true, I forgot about that.

But Jean was not around for most of Storm's time with the X-Men. Storm became closer to Logan than Jean.

How about the issue with she and the other female members at a club....Dazzler encouraging Storm to dance with a dancer.

That is not really a friendship. That's a single issue. Even after Dazzler joined the team in the outback, Dazzler interacted more with Rogue and Psylocke than Storm.


Even the bizarre "mother/daughter" relationship with Kitty counts for something.

Good point. She did have female friendships. But it wasn't stereotypically "dishing girl talk" like Brubaker made Emma do. Storm and Kitty had a friendship that was built on who they were as opposed to warping the character to fit some weird ideal of women some guy has. Honestly at points I began to feel sorry for the women around Brubaker during his X-run because his writing of the X-women did not reflect a very positive attitude towards females in general.

[Seres]

Previews are out until April.

No. It's been a long time since the gilded age of UNCANNY #500 SET TO BREAK ALL THE MOLDS!

Uncanny #500 sent Magneto into Space, where he will never be heard from again. Surely we can celebrate that?

Armor/X-23/Pixie?

May as well call it Old!Karma/Illyana/Shadowcat.

Armor is the princess of Astonishing and Pixie the princess of Uncanny and X-23 the princess of X-Force! Also, what with Illyana living in limbo and Shadowcat in space, it would be hard to have those three take up their old places.

Science team? This subplot is running on E. I will never understand who in the damn universe thinks Beast is intriguing, much less why Marvel Editorial thinks it's fun!!!! to use him. When we needed a medical plot device in the olden days, CC said two Ochs! and took a shot of highland scotch as he dragged Moira MacTaggert's ass from the vault every time as needed. Beast is now this new crutch, and -- like Moira -- he's just as freakin' boring and shoehorned.

So you're saying these characters should be... sidelined?

Storm/Karma/Dazzler have done jack all in Uncanny. Karma/Dazzler doing less I understand -- but Storm? A foreign politician?! When Fraction is about to push his "Proposition X" story later this year? No excuse.

Later this year! So who knows who'll come up to complain about it? Northstar was hinted as joining the team, after all....

But that Pixie sure is damn spunky. And the medical dramas of Beast and Colossus sure is damn riveting.

I like your optimism here. And Pixie is great! Lone Pixie supporter on CBR, right here.

And Uncanny hasn't been bad straight out the gate. It's just been ordinary, with signs of improvement as each new issue comes out. It's better than it was before! Shi'ar Empire? Too light on Hepzibah. Extremists? Blurgh. Science Teams with characters called Dr Nemesis in them? This is the future.

[Omega Alpha]

*shrug* Some of it does come down to whether You like certain characters or not.

If You are a big fan of Cyclops, Emma, and Wolverine....You are likely happier than others.

You can run objective arguments into the ground, but at the end of the day..Your subjective tastes will decide.

Personally, i like Wolverine. i don't read his solo series or his mini's. In a group team situation...i actually like him a lot. Is he overexposed? Probably. Nonetheless...since i don't read his solo or minis....and i like his character....i am fine.

Scott is OK to me. i don't sorely dislike him like some....but he has never interested me. There are times in the history of X-Men that i have found him quite unlikable...but i don't hate him like others. His huge exposure the past couple of years is something i -have- noticed...moreso than Wolverine..because he is a character i'd rather not read about in bulk. Nonetheless,that is my own subjective taste. Just because i'd be happy if he got less panel time..doesn't mean the writers should follow that. If he inspires the writers...so be it. All of this being said....i didn't mind him in Joss Whedon's run....this is an issue i will touch upon further down!

Emma is in between the two for me. With a good writer...she soars. Often...she is written as either way too placid....or unnecessarily mean spirited, unlikable, and frankly, undeserving of being where she is. Grant Morrison did great by her..it is a balancing act that few writers have accomplished since.
Matt Fraction's Dark Reign solo on her made me realize again that, if written well, i could be good with her current big exposure.

Which comes down to much of the issue! Is a comic's failure or success really about the characters, or how they are written?

X-Force has X-23 and Warpath. i've never cared about either character. The writing and characterization in this comic is so wonderful, it doesn't really matter.

i can't say the same about Uncanny.

If readers aren't happy with the storytelling, then other issues...like not liking the lead characters, the setting, etc...will become much more visible.

Young X-Men is another example of this. If the plots, characterization, and artwork were wonderful, the issues about not liking the new characters, or lamenting the loss of New X-Men characters, wouldn't have been as strong. Heck...if the run was at least decent...the backlash would have been less.

If Uncanny X-Men currently featured stories that were captivating..and if it fulfilled its rotating cast concept successfully, i believe the complaints about Cyclops overexposure would decrease significantly.

Cyclops is less overexposed (if they, or any of them really is) than Stark was during and post CW and Osborn is now. But they appear in a lot of books for the same reason of both of them: because he is the guy running the show, and that requires him to appear a lot. A lot of his appereances are playing the role of X-men's leader, like in Young X-men (I imagine he will appear in that capacity in New Mutants too) and in X-force.


Astonishing is not out of continuity. It's not a "What if..." story.


That's why I said almost out of continuity.


And Astonishing is actually far better, despite it delays and occasionally dragged out action. The characterization is really good. Uncanny's is not. Ellis actually addressed *WHY* Scott has become a Magneto wannabe, unlike Bruction who does not feel such a drastic change in character needs any explanation. Ellis actually gives time to *all* the characters on the team as opposed to Brutcion who focuses on Scott, Emma, and Logan and everyone else just makes non-character developing cameos. Ellis is actually doing something truly new in Astonishing pages, new stories, with new villains and new situations. Heck he was the one who set up the fact that the X-Men are police consultants. As opposed to Bructon who just meandering through the same old stuff with a different backdrop (even though it is not actually that different, the X-Men have relocated to SF after the Mutant Massacre).

So if we're being given a choice between titles, if we have to chuck out a book Emma, Scott, and Logan on the team. I'd chuck out Uncanny. The characters in Astonishing pages actually get developed and we are actually reading new stories there.

Oh, I agree that AXM is better, even if Ellis is disappointing me. But it's not a choice. They can appear in both, because of the insular aspect of AXM, the fact it's barely ever released, etc. While in Uncanny, Fraction is dealing with stuff that has to be dealt with. You can't just have these characters ignoring the rest of MU. He's just not doing it as well as he should for the most part.


Actually, I found that moment to utterly out of character for her. When has Emma ever dished Girl Talk, and with a complete stranger no less?

Whedon was the one who captured Scott and Emma's dysfunctionally-functional relationship. Brubaker turned Emma into Scott's Cheerleader GF.

Did Emma sounded different than normally in the Savage Land? Well, she was for weeks in a honeymoon of sorts with the love of her life in a paradisiac place very removed from the rest of the world. Out of character would be if she didn't acted or sounded differently than usual.

Not that I think Brubaker's run was exceptional or even good; heck, I had even dropped the title during the Extremists arc, returning from MC. But his characterization for both was fine.

[Novaya Havoc]

i have even fallen into the "But it was the first arc" trap. i did with Young X-Men.

Then...i think about new series that are wonderful from issue one. Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain Britain and the MI13, Agents of Atlas.......

Is "but it's only been six issues!" really a solid excuse?

Novaya makes some great points on Emma. Poor Wonder Woman has often fallen into this...being written from a man's point of view....not her own point of view. The same is often done with Emma and many female characters.

For the poster who said that Storm didn't have female friends during her time as a fulltime X-Man...not true. Anyone remember the reunion in Inferno with her and Jean? It was touching. How about the issue with she and the other female members at a club....Dazzler encouraging Storm to dance with a dancer. Even the bizarre "mother/daughter" relationship with Kitty counts for something.

All that being said....An interesting relationship between Emma and Storm has been developing across the comics. The Storm mini even touched upon it.

i stated that a friendship between the two could be interesting...and several people scoffed! Hate to say i told You so......err...*ducks*

I don't see Storm/Emma having a good relationship, and that is totally a good angle. And that is called forward momentum regarding characterization. The fact Storm isn't even around to tell Emma to CHECK YOSELF BEFO YOU WRECK YOSELF is a tragedy. Instead, Emma is just queen bee, and we just have insight only into her sex life with Cyclops (again: thanks straight men! I learn so much from you!).

They should have some sort of relationship, no matter if it's good or bad. I don't see homegirls being besties and downing Ben & Jerry's like a bat out of hell together anytime soon, but this is glossed over. And for what?! FOR BEAST! UGH! REMOVE BEAST FROM ALL COMICS! GIVE HIM TO CC ALREADY!

That aside... I feel you. If Emma is gonna be Queen Bee, homegirl needs some allies and stop being less dickmatized by "Slim" Summers' slim peen.

That's true, I forgot about that.

But Jean was not around for most of Storm's time with the X-Men. Storm became closer to Logan than Jean.



That is not really a friendship. That's a single issue. Even after Dazzler joined the team in the outback, Dazzler interacted more with Rogue and Psylocke than Storm.




Good point. But it wasn't stereotypically "dishing girl talk" like Brubaker made Emma do. Storm and Kitty had a friendship, but it was built on who they were as opposed to warping the character to fit some weird ideal of women some guy has. Honestly at points I began to feel sorry for the women around Brubaker during his X-run because his opinion of women was not very positive.

Storm renovated her life. She found Jesus (aka Heterosexuality) post Claremont and is now a different woman.

Storm was the only X-Homegirl Dazzler would talk to in the solo days, and she was butch as hell (foreshadowing on Dazz's pay-for-play proclivities? I think so!). Regardless, reference above.

Emma cannot be queen bee, have no friends, and experience no conflict. Someone will cut that bitch in diamond form and sell her broken bits to pawn shops for a hot $50 dolla bill at this rate. Emma and the Madonna/Whore dichotomy is so TIRED. She's been a "good guy" for a decade now. Run with it. Jesus.

[KiplingKat]

Oh, I agree that AXM is better, even if Ellis is disappointing me. But it's not a choice. They can appear in both, because of the insular aspect of AXM, the fact it's barely ever released, etc. While in Uncanny, Fraction is dealing with stuff that has to be dealt with. You can't just have these characters ignoring the rest of MU. He's just not doing it as well as he should for the most part.

But why does he have to deal with it with characters that are being showcased better somewhere else? Can't he form a different team? I mean gawd knows there are enough X-Men out there...

So for instance instead of actually moving up the New Mutants to the main team, making them X-Men at last, they are in another "New Mutants" title while they give Scott, Emma, and Logan multiple X-Titles.

Did Emma sounded different than normally in the Savage Land? Well, she was for weeks in a honeymoon of sorts with the love of her life in a paradisiac place very removed from the rest of the world. Out of character would be if she didn't acted or sounded differently than usual.

Yeah, it would be for her. We are not talking about "Miss Romantic", and while she may open up to Scott, she sure as heck is not going to open up to a complete stranger. Had Emma been "woobie-ing" in bed to Scott, I would have bought it. But not to Shana.

Not that I think Brubaker's run was exceptional or even good; heck, I had even dropped the title during the Extremists arc, returning from MC. But his characterization for both was fine.

She and Scott went underwent dramatic character changes between Whedon's hands and Brubaker's. And it wasn't until Ellis took the characters on in Astonishing that any explanation was provided for their change. Which means Brubaker was just writing them badly and Ellis had to come up with his excuse.

[KiplingKat]

Emma cannot be queen bee, have no friends, and experience no conflict. Someone will cut that bitch in diamond form and sell her broken bits to pawn shops for a hot $50 dolla bill at this rate. Emma and the Madonna/Whore dichotomy is so TIRED. She's been a "good guy" for a decade now. Run with it. Jesus.

She does have friends, she has Hank. I'm a little confused. You seem to want the break Emma out of "Madonna/Whore" stereotype in order to put her into stereotypical friendships with women? Women not all "Desperate Housewives" and "Sex in the City".

[Novaya Havoc]

She does have friends, she has Hank. I'm a little confused. You seem to want the break Emma out of "Madonna/Whore" stereotype in order to put her into stereotypical friendships with women? Women not all "Desperate Housewives" and "Sex in the City".

Yes.

Women having friendships with other women is stereotypical.

And me getting some damn ass with some random at a bar is stereotypically gay.

I fail to see your point here, ironic hyperbole aside. This has nothing to do with the obsession with Madonna/Whore.

[MuhollandDriver]

Cyclops is less overexposed (if they, or any of them really is) than Stark was during and post CW and Osborn is now. But they appear in a lot of books for the same reason of both of them: because he is the guy running the show, and that requires him to appear a lot. A lot of his appereances are playing the role of X-men's leader, like in Young X-men (I imagine he will appear in that capacity in New Mutants too) and in X-force.



Everyone is aware of why. That doesn't take away from people's preferences. There really isn't even an argument here. Nothing to argue about. i just wish such a character was one that i enjoyed reading about more. i'm sure You'd feel the same if it were other characters. i even said that my opinion shouldn't dictate what writers do. i just wish the execution was better.

[Pach!]

It doesnt bother me at all but now with Legacy changing and the New Mutants being a team of X-men (with none of those you are mentioning) we will have 3 "teams" so it should change soon.

[Novaya Havoc]

It doesnt bother me at all but now with Legacy changing and the New Mutants being a team of X-men (with none of those you are mentioning) we will have 3 "teams" so it should change soon.

Just like the JOYOUS RAPTURE that was to occur with Uncanny #500?

Andres. I am doctor from England. I wish to rent the apartment at your place. I have hot daughter and wish to forward you $5,000 USD to secure it. Please forward me checking account information and I shall make good promise to you. I have PHD in MacroBiology Studios. I need to relocate!!!


... Don't fall for scams.

[Omega Alpha]

But why does he have to deal with it with characters that are being showcased better somewhere else? Can't he form a different team?

Who do you expect to deal with M-Day, Dark Reign, etc, other than the people that lead the X-men? Should we see Rockslide decide what the X-men should do next?



Yeah, it would be for her. We are not talking about "Miss Romantic", and while she may open up to Scott, she sure as heck is not going to open up to a complete stranger. Had Emma been "woobie-ing" in bed to Scott, I would have bought it. But not to Shana.

I can see where you're coming from, but like I said, honeymoon for weeks, no one will ever know what she did or said there, etc. It can be slightly out of character, but not really completely.

And Emma is more as the type that pretends to be completely pragmatic and unromantic rather than actually being. Heck, in House of M, her heart's wish wasn't being Queen of the World or a multibillionaire, but being married to Scott and taking care of kids that needed help (and it was all hers; Scott's appereantly was never going to the orphanage and being manipulated by Sinister).
e


She and Scott went underwent dramatic character changes between Whedon's hands and Brubaker's. And it wasn't until Ellis took the characters on in Astonishing that any explanation was provided for their change. Which means Brubaker was just writing them badly and Ellis had to come up with his excuse.

Brubaker wrote them for only a few issues, and they were on a romantic break on the Savage Land. Scott's changes were well shown and developed in Messiah Complex, and Whedon's own run. But I agree that Ellis is showing them better than both him and Fraction.

[Pach!]

Just like the JOYOUS RAPTURE that was to occur with Uncanny #500?

Andres. I am doctor from England. I wish to rent the apartment at your place. I have hot daughter and wish to forward you $5,000 to secure it. Please forward me checking account information and I shall make good promise to you. I have PHD in MacroBiology Studios. I need to relocate!!!


... Don't fall for scams.

What do you mean? Are you saying that even those books will focus on the same characters?

New Mutants is a different team of X-men. Scott, Beast, Emma, Wolverine and Colossus are not starring that book.

Or are you implying that the Legacy book is going to focus on them? Because I dont think so either. It will probably be Rogue and some other people.

X-force has a completely different cast

so ignoring, astonishing that will be 4 books with 4 teams of X-men.

[Omega Alpha]

Everyone is aware of why. That doesn't take away from people's preferences. There really isn't even an argument here. Nothing to argue about. i just wish such a character was one that i enjoyed reading about more. i'm sure You'd feel the same if it were other characters. i even said that my opinion shouldn't dictate what writers do. i just wish the execution was better.

Well, who would it be? Even if I liked, say, Iceman or Rogue more than I like Cyke, that doesn't mean I would prefer reading them being in charge of the X-men, because that's not who they are, nor makes sense for them to be in that position. Likewise, I like Daredevil more than Stark, but the former wouldn't make a good director of SHIELD (nor that the latter did, of course).

But, yeah, I agree that the execution in Uncanny could have been better. Though it's great in X-force.

[Novaya Havoc]

What do you mean? Are you saying that even those books will focus on the same characters?

New Mutants is a different team of X-men. Scott, Beast, Emma, Wolverine and Colossus are not starring that book.

Or are you implying that the Legacy book is going to focus on them? Because I dont think so either. It will probably be Rogue and some other people.

X-force has a completely different cast

so ignoring, astonishing that will be 4 books with 4 teams of X-men.

I do not buy that anyone will give a dam whit about "NEW MUTANTS -- 20 YEARS LATER!!!" like the Gaboner that might be happening now. There's a reason bitches like Dani Moonstar, Magma, and others didn't graduate to X-Force. There's a reason Illyana died of Mutant AIDS. It's called "Bitches hate gnarly teens all obsessed with Twitter." I give NEW NEW NEW NEW Mutants 8 months before it's on the precarious chopping block. Novelty only goes so far. Look at M&M Minis. HOW MANY OF THOSE DO YOU SEE IN STORES NOWADAYS?!

X-Force is great.

X-Factor is written by a self-professed Communist (LONGSHOT!!!).

I fail to see the dramatic!!!! change to the X-Line. Bitches will be static as long as the Cable/Bishop roided-up saga anchors down the line. So I fail to see this prohophetic shift in the status quo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBVUlgG8Lm8).

I HAVE HOT DAUGHTER SEND YOU PICS FOR CHECKING ACCOUNT NUMBER!!! I AM DOCTOR FROM UK!!!!!

Stick to the stuff you knooowww... stick to the status quooooo....

[KiplingKat]

Yes.

Women having friendships with other women is stereotypical.

And me getting some damn ass with some random at a bar is stereotypically gay.

I fail to see your point here, ironic hyperbole aside. This has nothing to do with the obsession with Madonna/Whore.

My point is what I am getting from what you are saying is you think Emma needs "girlfriends" (in quotes, like her dishing with Shana in the Savage Land, which is a pretty stereotypical view of female relationships) in order to develop as a character. That is what I am getting from what you are saying. If that is not what you are saying, then I have misunderstood and I apologize.

My response to that understanding is: Not all women and not all female friendship are like that, that stereotypical "Sex in the City/Desperate Housewives" way of seeing women, and you seem to be wanting to move her from one stereotype to another.

Again, if I have understood what you were saying, I apologize.

[Novaya Havoc]

My point is what I am getting from what you are saying is you think Emma needs "girlfriends" (in quotes, like her dishing with Shana in the Savage Land, which is a pretty stereotypical view of female relationships) in order to develop as a character. That is what I am getting from what you are saying. If that is not what you are saying, then I have misunderstood and I apologize.

My response to that understanding is: Not all women and not all female friendship are like that, that stereotypical "Sex in the City/Desperate Housewives" way of seeing women, and you seem to be wanting to move her from one stereotype to another.

Again, if I have understood what you were saying, I apologize.

If you're bringing up Metamucil in the City or Desperate to be Fingerbanged Housewives, then you're falling into the Madonna/Whore dichotomy.

Leave this place.

[Seres]

Stick to the stuff you knooowww... stick to the status quooooo....

Your definition of Status Quo is unacceptable (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kiYAIM4N_A).

You also seem unwilling to accept that there are other groups of X-Men, because they are all made up of characters you do not like.

[MuhollandDriver]

Well, who would it be? Even if I liked, say, Iceman or Rogue more than I like Cyke, that doesn't mean I would prefer reading them being in charge of the X-men, because that's not who they are, nor makes sense for them to be in that position. Likewise, I like Daredevil more than Stark, but the former wouldn't make a good director of SHIELD (nor that the latter did, of course).

But, yeah, I agree that the execution in Uncanny could have been better. Though it's great in X-force.

i don't have a problem with Scott as leader. i'd personally prefer Storm...but Scott is fine. The problems many people are expressing aren't really even about Scott..if they think about it.

Again....it comes down to the writing...which..it seems...many of us agree on more than we realize.

[Novaya Havoc]

You also seem unwilling to accept that there are other groups of X-Men, because they are all made up of characters you do not like.

No. I refuse to accept crappy stories. This is why all of Dreamboat CC's titles fail, why Young X-Men fail, and why Cable/Moon Knight/Bishop MINI/Ghost Rider fail more than a quadriplegic trying to pole dance at a titty bar.

You know this to be true, Seres.

[KiplingKat]

Who do you expect to deal with M-Day, Dark Reign, etc, other than the people that lead the X-men? Should we see Rockslide decide what the X-men should do next?

No, but Canonball and Nightcrawler both have experience as team leaders, both have shown themselves successful as team leaders.

Their leadership experience has been determinedly ignored by the many X-writers for a long time. Just because you need a leader for an X-Team, that does not mean it has to be Cyclops or Storm.

I can see where you're coming from, but like I said, honeymoon for weeks, no one will ever know what she did or said there, etc. It can be slightly out of character, but not really completely.

And Emma is more as the type that pretends to be completely pragmatic and unromantic rather than actually being. Heck, in House of M, her heart's wish wasn't being Queen of the World or a multibillionaire, but being married to Scott and taking care of kids that needed help (and it was all hers; Scott's appereantly was never going to the orphanage and being manipulated by Sinister).

I agree that Emma puts out a cold front and is softer underneath, but she has always viewed other women as competitors, or at least views them with mistrust. Her first positive relationship was with her brother. She gets along with men easier. So even if she was drowning in romance, I don't see her opening up like that to a complete stranger and certainly not a woman.

Brubaker wrote them for only a few issues, and they were on a romantic break on the Savage Land. Scott's changes were well shown and developed in Messiah Complex,

No, they weren't. Scott acted like a complete idiot in Messiah CompleX, spent the entire crossover behind everyone else instead of getting in front of what was happening as he would have normally done. And some of his decisions were utterly nonsensical.

So a nano-virus takes over the Sentinels to make them attack the mansion, just after Bishop shows up, and after Mystique and Omega Sentnel/Mailce have turned on the team, while Danger is loose and running around, and Scott sends a bunch of blade wielders to go after one of the most powerful telekinetics on the planet who regularly carries many, many firearms, because he just came back from the dead...like so many other X-men have done?

I mean seriously, What. The. Hell.

And really, "I'm going to think of Cable and that will make me a moron" is just not enough of an explanation for how the character was protrayed.

and Whedon's own run.

Whedon *did* develop the character extremely well. He took all the little disparate pieces of the character and put them back together in a extremely cool package. But Brubaker just threw that all out the window as soon as he got his hands on him.

But I agree that Ellis is showing them better than both him and Fraction.

Yes, Ellis has actually bridged the gap between Whedon's Cyclops and Bruction's Cyclops.

[KiplingKat]

If you're bringing up Metamucil in the City or Desperate to be Fingerbanged Housewives, then you're falling into the Madonna/Whore dichotomy.

Leave this place.

I'm sorry, but that did not respond to what I said. Did I misunderstand what you were saying, moving Emma from one stereotype to another, or not.

[MuhollandDriver]

No. I refuse to accept crappy stories. This is why all of Dreamboat CC's titles fail, why Young X-Men fail, and why Cable/Moon Knight/Bishop MINI/Ghost Rider fail more than a quadriplegic trying to pole dance at a titty bar.

You know this to be true, Seres.

Yep. We can go on about how a certain character does or doesn't belong....how the team needs to be the allstars...or that it needs more cult characters....when it comes down to it....we all want stories with great writing.

A wonderful story can make characters You don't even like shine..or at least become more digestible.

We haven't been getting that from Uncanny...hence these discussions.

[lockerogue]

Quick correction on Danger. Danger was in SWORD custody during Messiah Complex.

[KiplingKat]

A wonderful story can make characters You don't even like shine..or at least become more digestible. .

Heck, PAD has practically made a living doing that.

[KiplingKat]

Quick correction on Danger. Danger was in SWORD custody during Messiah Complex.

Was she? Well, there certainly more viable suspects than Cable running around, in fact one of them was staring Scott right in the face.

[Omega Alpha]

No, but Canonball and Nightcrawler both have experience as team leaders, both have shown themselves successful as team leaders.

Their leadership experience has been determinedly ignored by the many X-writers for a long time. Just because you need a leader for an X-Team, that does not mean it has to be Cyclops.

Like I said, this is the book in which the X-men interact with the main MU and the rest of the X-universe. Cyclops is the leader of the X-men as a whole as much as what Xavier is; have Nightcrawler or Cannonball as leader here wouldn't accomplish tbe purpose .

And after MC (or even House of M), the concept of several X-men teams doesn't make much sense, with so few mutants. They are not a superhero team anymore, or at least not only one, but rather the representatives of an entire race that is on the verge of being extincted. No point in having Blue/Gold/Orange/Pink teams. They are now divided differently: the X-men are still X-men, but you have a fringe science team trying to reverse the effects of M-day, a black ops team, etc.

Actually, think about it better, this already begun with Morrison. But with mutantkind expanding, there was more room for several X-men teams doing a lot of different stuff.



I agree that Emma puts out a cold front and is softer underneath, but she has always viewed other women as competitors, or at least views them with mistrust. Her first positive relationship was with her brother. She gets along with men easier. So even if she was drowning in romance, I don't see her opening up like that to a complete stranger and certainly not a woman.

Oh, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. The only X-woman I remember her getting along fine from the start was Rogue in Milligan's godawful run, but then it makes sense; since Rogue can't touch anyone, she isn't competition. Her views were certainly shaped because of her years in Hellfire Club, were women were competition more often than not.

That said, Shana wasn't really competition, she was already softened up because of the occasion, etc.


No, they weren't. Scott acted like a complete idiot in Messiah CompleX, spent the entire crossover behind everyone else instead of getting in front of what was happening as he would have normally done. And some of his decisions were utterly nonsensical.

I don't want to begin again the same arguments of MC. Even because, as clearly shown, the X-men won: they nearly destroyed the Marauders, defeated the Purifiers, and got the baby. Whatever he was doing was a success.

[lockerogue]

Was she? Well, there certainly more viable suspects than Cable running around, in fact one of them was staring Scott right in the face.

In recent Legacy issue. Which I haven't gotten because this town doesn't have a comic shop. But anyway Danger escaped during Secret Invasion.

[KiplingKat]

Like I said, this is the book in which the X-men interact with the main MU and the rest of the X-universe. Cyclops is the leader of the X-men as a whole as much as what Xavier is; have Nightcrawler or Cannonball as leader here wouldn't accomplish tbe purpose .

Um...why? For instance, I think X-Factor would be more willing to work with Sam than they would with Scott.

And if you have Cyclops being the grand high mucky-muck in one book, why is he being a team leader in others? If he is going to be handling all the various X-team, should he be in only one book and not going on field missions? Shouldn't he be staying in one place in order to coordinate?

And after MC (or even House of M), the concept of several X-men teams doesn't make much sense, with so few mutants.

Yet someonehow, we still have enough mutants around to fill over half a dozen different titles, with plenty of characters to spare. So if they are going to drop down to a single team, they should drop down to a single title.

They are not a superhero team anymore, or at least not only one, but rather the representatives of an entire race that is on the verge of being extincted. No point in having Blue/Gold/Orange/Pink teams. They are now divided differently: the X-men are still X-men, but you have a fringe science team trying to reverse the effects of M-day, a black ops team, etc.

I'm not sure what this has to do with why two titles focus on the same characters?

Actually, think about it better, this already begun with Morrison. But with mutantkind expanding, there was more room for several X-men teams doing a lot of different stuff.

There were already multiple X-titles when Morrison showed up on the scene. X-Men did not "expand" because of him. And M-Day did not take out that many named characters. That was part of the fan criticism of it.

To be honest, I think what you're saying is nonsensical. But I don't want to begin again the same arguments of MC. Even because, as clearly shown, the X-men won: they nearly destroyed the Marauders, defeated the Purifiers, and they got the baby. Whatever he was doing was a success.

Because there was some serious Plot Induced Stupidity on the villain's part. And given that they had to send the baby into the future, Xavier ended up shot in the head, and the X-Men abandoned Rogue, I would not call that one a "Win" for the X-Men.

[KiplingKat]

In recent Legacy issue. Which I haven't gotten because this town doesn't have a comic shop. But anyway Danger escaped during Secret Invasion.

Ah, you're right I forgot about that.

[KiplingKat]

Again....it comes down to the writing...which..it seems...many of us agree on more than we realize.

Agreed. I'm quibbling over the fine points, not the big issue, which "Uncanny is not living up to it's promise."

[Novaya Havoc]

Quick correction on Danger. Danger was in SWORD custody during Messiah Complex.

LOL OMG YOUR AVATAR!!!

Those Foxxy's Funyuns indeed.

[lockerogue]

LOL OMG YOUR AVATAR!!!

Those Foxxy's Funyuns indeed.

I LOVE YOURS TOO!!!

That show should have never been canceled.

[Omega Alpha]

Um...why? For instance, I think X-Factor would be more willing to work with Sam than they would with Scott.

And if you have Cyclops being the grand high mucky-muck in one book, why is he being a team leader in others? If he is going to be handling all the various X-team, should he be in only one book and not going on field missions? Shouldn't he be staying in one place in order to coordinate?


Like I said, Scott is THE leader of the X-men. If X-factor would be more willing to work with Sam, Pixie or Scott, it doesn't matter, because Scott is the team leader. Likewise, it doesn't matter if (insert random character name here) would be more willing to work with say, Tony Stark, the Sentry or Norman Osborn, because Osborn is the guy in charge of the MU right now, and has to appear in more books.

And there is only ONE X-men team. The others are subdivisions for a specific purpose. Scott doesn't go into field missions with any of those.

In anyway, Xavier stayed in the mansion because he couldn't walk and even when he could, field leading wasn't his speciality, he would add more off the field than by going into the battles usually. That's not the case with Scott.


Yet someonehow, we still have enough mutants around to fill over half a dozen different titles, with plenty of characters to spare. So if they are going to drop down to a single team, they should drop down to a single title.


And which title would it be? AXM, so you would only have an X-men book every 3 months? Or should they cancel it, even though you're saying that you liked it.

The purpose of each title is easily understandable:
AXM- Reduced cast, not particularly tied in with continuity.
Uncanny- Bigger cast, continuity-heavy, X-men intereact with the rest of the X-universe and the MU.



Because there was some serious Plot Induced Stupidity on the villain's part.

Nope, they won because, well, they were better prepared after their initial shocks, and, unlike the villains, they were unified into a single team, led by Cyke, while the others were fighting among themselves.



And given that they had to send the baby into the future, Xavier ended up shot in the head, and the X-Men abandoned Rogue, I would not call that one a "Win" for the X-Men.

The X-men didn't abandoned Rogue. She left on her own free will, just like the rest of the team, that was "disbanded" after it. And they could have kept the baby, but she better off with Cable (or so they thought). And Xavier being shot in the head is what I call a win:biggrin: (although he still survived).

[Omega Alpha]

Agreed. I'm quibbling over the fine points, not the big issue, which "Uncanny is not living up to it's promise."

Me neither. We can all agree on that one.

[Novaya Havoc]

I LOVE YOURS TOO!!!

That show should have never been canceled.

Seriously. I love Toot and Xandir. Toot is the best, but the fat jokes got TIRED. I wanted more Betty Boop parody!

THEM'S FOXXY'S FUNYUNS!!!

HELP!!! SHE'S ATTACKING ME AS IF I WERE THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE!!! /Clara
Oh, it's ON BITCH!!! /Foxxy

[KiplingKat]

Like I said, Scott is THE leader of the X-men. If X-factor would be more willing to work with Sam, Pixie or Scott, it doesn't matter, because Scott is the team leader. Likewise, it doesn't matter if (insert random character name here) would be more willing to work with say, Tony Stark, the Sentry or Norman Osborn, because Osborn is the guy in charge of the MU right now, and has to appear in more books.

And there is only ONE X-men team. The others are subdivisions for a specific purpose. Scott doesn't go into field missions with any of those.

Uhm...The only "subteam" the X-Men have is X-Force. Everyone else is kinda doing their own thing. X-Factor is not under Cyclops control, in fact they don't trust him anymore. Cable is not under Cyclops control. Legacy is Xavier and others characters doing his/their own thing.

anyway, Xavier stayed in the mansion because he couldn't walk and even when he could, field leading wasn't his speciality, he would add more off the field than by going into the battles usually. That's not the case with Scott.

No, he stayed in the Mansion because Scott wouldn't let him help. Remember, he offered to help Scott during MC, and Scott yelled at him.

And which title would it be? AXM, so you would only have an X-men book every 3 months? Or should they cancel it, even though you're saying that you liked it.

The purpose of each title is easily understandable:
AXM- Reduced cast, not particularly tied in with continuity.
Uncanny- Bigger cast, continuity-heavy, X-men intereact with the rest of the X-universe and the MU.

Why should they cancel their most successful book? When Astonishing does come out, it outsells Uncanny.

Nope, they won because, well, they were better prepared after their initial shocks, and, unlike the villains, they were unified into a single team, led by Cyke, while the others were fighting among themselves.

I would call sending out a hit squad on Cable and Bishop undermining everything they did "fighting amongst themselves".

They managed to come out of MC with a "Draw" because Cable contacted Professor X and told him what was going on.


The X-men didn't abandoned Rogue.

She left on her own free will, just like the rest of the team, that was "disbanded" after it. And they could have kept the baby, but she better off with Cable (or so they thought). And Xavier being shot in the head is what I call a win:biggrin: (although he still survived).

Uhm, yeah, yeah they did.

They attacked the Marauders in the arctic "We've come for the baby and Rogue!" And when they found out the Marauders didn't have the baby, they just left and didn't talk about Rogue again, nor did they go looking for her afterwards. They had no word from her that she "left of her own free will" as far as Scott knows, she's still captured.

And they were forced to send the baby into the future with Cable in order to prevent their enemies from coming at them again and again.

[Novaya Havoc]

All of this continuitywonk bores me. Save it for a Professor Michael Carey thread.

[lockerogue]

Seriously. I love Toot and Xandir. Toot is the best, but the fat jokes got TIRED. I wanted more Betty Boop parody!

THEM'S FOXXY'S FUNYUNS!!!

HELP!!! SHE'S ATTACKING ME AS IF I WERE THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE!!! /Clara
Oh, it's ON BITCH!!! /Foxxy

LOL

My favorites were Foxxy, Toot, Woldoor, and Xandir. My favorite episodes are "Drawn Together Babies" and "A Very Drawn Together After School Special".

Chocalandra Love.

[Novaya Havoc]

LOL

My favorites were Foxxy, Toot, Woldoor, and Xandir. My favorite episodes are "Drawn Together Babies" and "A Very Drawn Together After School Special".

Chocalandra Love.

My favorite scene is Toot all drunk on AA and she bust a bottle of rum and says:

"OMG!!! CAPTAIN MORGAN!!! YOU'RE BLEEDING!!! I'LL SAVE YOU!!!! *lick lick lick*"

<3

[Prodigy55]

I'm so over Beast, Angel and Colossus.
I think they're just a waste of space in Uncanny.
Colossus is all "grr... my sister is gone, I'm going to beat up Russians"
And Beast/Angel are all "grr... mutants are gone. We're going to round up Nazis and Canadians"

WHAT.
EV.

[Joe Franklin]

I'm really holding out that X-Men will become a team book after legacy ends its last arc. Mike Carey is too good at writing a set team not be allowed to do it.

I hope so too.

I am very close to removing Legacy from my pull file if it doesn't have a larger character roster pretty soon.

[Kira]

When I think of a rotating cast I think of the show Justice League Unlimited; the viewer was treated to an almost entirely new cast from episode to episode. There was an overall storyline that strung together all the different stories and that is what made the show feel as if we were viewing one very big story instead different individual stories. Uncanny is attempting to do this but it seems as if the X office is afraid to really let the concept go wild. Thus Uncanny is just a bunch of A listers with one or two guest stars who provide scenery.
Imagine if Uncanny was written in a way that in one Arc you could have Emma, Cyclops, Storm and etc. as the main stars and then in the next arc cannonball, moonstar, dazzler, surge and nightcralwer as the leads.

[eurazn]

You know, it's funny that before MC, I remember a lot of people complaining that there were too many X-books and that they would prefer to see only one, with only one team.

Who are these people?!?! I don't recall any of these sorts of complaints, but I would gladly debunk those misguided thoughts in a second!

I feel sorry for you all...
Unable to appreciate the exciting adventures of Fringe Science Team.

May 2009 previews will reveal the upcoming pitched battle between hairy McLairy's troop and smallpox!
Watch out for some great character beats of everyone's favourite character, the good white Doctor, and more attempts to make Angel just as interesting as Archangel.

I hope Sage's first generation computer makes an appearance!!!

I love the Fringe Science Team. Since I can only get my ER fix 4 times per month, it's nice to know that via Uncanny X-Men, I can experience HIGH TENSION MEDICAL DRAMA five times per month!

The Fringe Science team will be so compelling that the teams will be reworked at the next relaunch! We'll have ER (X-Force), House (X-Men Legacy), the Practice (Astonishing), and Grey's Anatomy (Uncanny) all together at once!

For the poster who said that Storm didn't have female friends during her time as a fulltime X-Man...not true. Anyone remember the reunion in Inferno with her and Jean? It was touching. How about the issue with she and the other female members at a club....Dazzler encouraging Storm to dance with a dancer. Even the bizarre "mother/daughter" relationship with Kitty counts for something.

But Jean was not around for most of Storm's time with the X-Men. Storm became closer to Logan than Jean ... Even after Dazzler joined the team in the outback, Dazzler interacted more with Rogue and Psylocke than Storm.

Wolverine was MIA for a big chunk of that time in the Outback and I can only recall one issue in which they had a "heart-to-heart" chat; most of his time was spent admiring her leather jacket.

And as far as the BFF relationships go, Betsy is perturbed over your assertion Logan was closer to Storm than she was during their time in the Outback:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/wairata/bff.jpg

For those not familiar, the scenes above happened right after the X-Men left Australia by going through the Siege Perilous.

When I think of a rotating cast I think of the show Justice League Unlimited; the viewer was treated to an almost entirely new cast from episode to episode. There was an overall storyline that strung together all the different stories and that is what made the show feel as if we were viewing one very big story instead different individual stories. Uncanny is attempting to do this but it seems as if the X office is afraid to really let the concept go wild. Thus Uncanny is just a bunch of A listers with one or two guest stars who provide scenery.
Imagine if Uncanny was written in a way that in one Arc you could have Emma, Cyclops, Storm and etc. as the main stars and then in the next arc cannonball, moonstar, dazzler, surge and nightcralwer as the leads.

That's a VERY good comparison. That show is a fantastic example of how the concept can truly WORK.

[Joe Franklin]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/wairata/bff.jpg


This was when Jim Lee had style, and did not draw stiff posed characters that all looked the same.

I miss the old school Jim Lee art.:frown:

[Christopher O]

More Storm, Dazzler, Karma, and some Northstar would be nice.

[greenshoes713]

LOL OMG YOUR AVATAR!!!

Those Foxxy's Funyuns indeed.

I LOVE YOURS TOO!!!

That show should have never been canceled.

I love both your avatars!

[Raptor]

i can see both side of the issues.

That being said...i think it can be agreed upon that Uncanny, the "flagship" title....has not lived up to expectations.

There are many reasons for this.

The Astonishing aspect is a very good point. While Whedon's run was in its own little world (especially near the end), I still felt like I was among the X-World. So far, Astonishing by Ellis feels very, very isolated from everything else.

It also needs to come out more regularly. i really don't have much patience for that..especially since the result so far is a mildly interesting plot that moves at a tiptoe pace. The witty characterizations help, but fail to compensate.

A good way to fix this? Keep Astonishing a specialty book, but have it focus on the allstar cast's motives...Emma and Scott's relationship...Beast's mission to save mutantkind...Storm's struggle to balance the X-Men and Wakanda.

That way...the Uncanny cast can be a healthy blend of allstars, cult heroes, and newcomers.

Something should be done. Uncanny is far from what the writers intended. i remember those multiple interviews..talking of rotating casts and stories, bringing Dazzler back into the fold, The New Mutants being used, etc. The read is really no different than before this "new, exciting direction".

While i don't think blame can be placed on any one thing, we readers have a right to be disappointed. Uncanny didn't deliver on its promise.

Well said, though you forgot to mention firing Whedon out of a cannon into space.