X-men: Love to hate

[Justin K.]

- Who were some mutants you really liked at first, but for some reason you came to dislike them?
- What turned you away from them?
- Why? Be sure to give valid reasons too...

[KiplingKat]

Claremont's Rogue of the 1980's was a sassy X-Chick what was down to earth and down to business. She knew the costs of being a hero, had her cross to bear, yet was upbeat. She was my second favorite character.

Then Lobdell turned her into a co-dependent train wreck through the 1990's (from which she has yet recover). I can't stand her now.

[jcp011c]

Gambit started out as the mysterious bad boy, Wolverine 2.0 (minus healing factor) and the Remy relationship problems ended up nearly destroying the character. Despite the overall horribleness of the Blood Of Apocalypse storyline this actually did serve to turn the character back into a place where he is more interesting..

I wont say I started out loving Angel's character, but I've had a love/hate for him, depending on whether he is Angel of death or just Angel. His original Archangel run made him one of my favorites, even after he lost his metal wings he still had he blue skin and changes from Apocalypse apparent and affecting his life. Once that was drained away so did his interesting side of his personality. Now he's back on my hot list.

[Assemble]

I can't stand Storm. She's boring, and has boring powers... she just sucks.

The only time I can remember being into her was during the "Gold Team" days, and I liked her in AoA...

I'm glad she isn't in either core title currently.

I also don't like Blob that much, but... threat neutrilized on that one.

[Beni]

I thought Gambit was a cool character at first, until I learned he is a jerk and a crybaby! :biggrin:

[HellFrost]

:eek:




I demand compensation for my brilliance, Justin!

[The Black Guardian]

Pixie... until she started consuming other people's powers.

Bishop... until he started eating babies.

Emma... until she started crying about the Hellions.

[creaky]

I loved Pixie. :frown:

[The Black Guardian]

Yeah. I still love Pixie's visual, and if she gets rid of the butter knife and stops teleporting, I'll even be willing to forgive her tattletaling on people.

[Red Savina]

I liked Storm as a child, but to no particular writer or story's credit, I grew greatly disinterested with her character in general.

Hellion became more grating with time. I now like all of the "Young" X-Men I originally hated and vice versa.

[Raptor]

- Who were some mutants you really liked at first, but for some reason you came to dislike them?
- What turned you away from them?
- Why? Be sure to give valid reasons too...

I'll only mention one.

Gambit.

He was so suave, he looked badass, he was a ladies man. He had it all. He had some real flair with the explosions and glowing cards etc.

I even liked his marauder arc.

Sadly...Rogue who I like but am not a HUGE fan of , kinda ruined him. The relationship was far too drawn out without any real rewards for Gambit. Guess that's what happens when a tomcat gets tied down. Then he got screwed over time and again.

I was psyched when he became a horseman...then seemed to fade into thebackground again.

It hurts me to admit it, but I think the writing made me start to dislike my old favorite.

Stop screwing Gambit unless it's in the good way, poor guy needs some lovin'.

[XSE Drake]

I loved the English Betsy. Her early days as an X-Men were her best. At first timid, then slowly growing into one of the best characters on my all-time favorite X-team (the Australian team). Then she became a victim of the times by finding herself in the body of an Asian mannequin with a fondness for butt floss.

Tragic shame, really, that such a simple yet completely effective character should become so convoluted and bogged down in continuity that no one seems to dare bring her back into the fold.

[Raker616]

Cyclops for the life of me I can't figure out why anyone likes him at all, he is one of the most plain and uninteresting heroes in all of comics. His lameness was exibited perfectly in the X-movies in which he did nothing and yet the movies ruled if only the comics treated him the same way.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

You know what? I used to like Sage.

I know, it feels dirty to say it now, but once upon a time I very genuinely did. As Tessa in the Hellfire Club, and as she defected to the X-Men. I liked the idea of a Hellfire Club stalwart defecting.

I even liked her at the start of X-Treme X-men, with the new look.

But then... things began to get silly. The never referred to before (or even hinted at) ability to kick-start mutant powers? The constant use of Sage in deus ex machina situations? The constant need for the character to be praised by every other cast member, in an out of character confessional speech pattern? I was hating her long before New Excalibur, let alone New eXiles.

The bottom line is that Sage is a skilled and adept Spy, who's great in a black ops situation but should be shite on a battlefield. She may be highly trained, but she's only of normal human strength in a fight. She's fantastic at organising things and talking to computer systems, but for God's sake enough with her handing people their asses in a battle. It just wouldn't happen, the first big guy would turn up and snap her spine.

Play the character to her ACTUAL strength, or send her to limbo for the good of comicskind.

[The Fury]

Wolverine, first liked him from 90s cartoon, he was cool. Nice powers, his healing was rarely shown, which again was good.

Over time I realised a few things, the first being over publication can really piss people off. Characterisation has been lost on him years ago, too many appearences to make any real difference or story progressions.

And lastly, you are not a hero if your main offense is 6 lethal claws and you use them on anyone or thing. This murderer shouldn't even be anywhere near a hero team. He (and clone, Staberina) need to learn that they are a last resort.

Stop killing Wolverine and be a hero again.

[tetragene]

Rogue, I loved-loved-loved her in the 90's cartoon. A sassy bitch that was southern as all get out dealing with a lot of turmoil but never for once letting it show through to others. Reading up on 80's X-Men Rogue was great too. Then I dunno, the 90's had its moments of good Rogue but for me she just severely lost her cool/fun factor since the mid 90's on. Mike Carey does a pretty good job with her, but I still haven't been won over again.

Psylocke, British Betsy was awesome. Prim & proper & frail, but longing to be a tough-as-nails warrior so she could feel more secure in her position within the group. She had the heart for it, but physically she did not fit the bill whatsoever. She was so creative with her powers and I loved when she gained armor to make up for her lack of physical strength/defense. Then that ninja b/s happened and she has never recovered. And to me it's ironic that the writer that made British Betsy so enjoyable has made Asian Besty so barf-inducing

[Omega Alpha]

Storm seemed a cool character until the Brood Saga (granted, I only read that stories much later, when I already disliked her). Then Claremont transformed her in the prototype of his Amazons and the character never recovered.

Mystique used to be cool, but it seems clear she's a one (or two) trick pony now: all her stories revolve around Rogue and her mommy issues or questioning if she's good or evil, always ending with her backstabbing everyone.

[KiplingKat]

I'll put in a vote for Besty as well. "English Rose" Besty was unique and cool. "Elektra Rip-Off" Besty is boring. And to make matters worse, the last ten to 15 years, they have replaced her character development with jacking around with her power set. Complete waste of a what started out a great character.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I'll put in a vote for Besty as well. "English Rose" Besty was unique and cool. "Elektra Rip-Off" Besty is boring. And to make matters worse, the last ten to 15 years, they have replaced her character development with jacking around with her power set. Complete waste of a what started out a great character.

Another reason why I keep on saying it's time to let her go home.

[f4faith]

Cyclops -

I never loved the character but I liked him ok. I certainly felt he had a role to play as one of the X-Men's decent field tacticians. I always felt he was a crap boyfriend and really had no vision of his own but that did not take away from his role as an X-Man.

But since he really proved what a crap lover he is and has now decided like Bush that the ONLY way to deal with a tough issue is his I'm right your wrong secrets and attack first and death squads, I lothe him. Add to the fact, he's obviously trying to copy his tough/cool guy act from his latest "romantic" joke of a relationship/interest while acting like he's the only one who'll get blamed if he just keeps it secret (right - I'm sure Norman and his ilk would be so reasonable), and Marvel treats his stupid decisions like putting all the mutants on the lawn after House of M as can do no wrong because they slobber on him like the X-Men can't exist without him, and put him in every book, I actually avoid nearly everything he is in.

I can say similar things about Emma. Use to love her in Gen X as the bad girl who now and then cares but still pretty much is without morality or class but now that she's come to take over the X-Men books and is just the "good girl" in love with Scott who can do bad now and then, I can't stand her.

[timbox]

Cyclops Cyclops Cyclops Cyclops Cyclops Cyclops Cyclops Cyclops Cyclops Cyclops Cyclops Cyclops Cyclops Cyclops Cyclops Cyclops Cyclops Cyclops

[MartinRedmond]

I was psyched when he became a horseman...then seemed to fade into thebackground again.

Stop screwing Gambit unless it's in the good way, poor guy needs some lovin'.

Me too! Gambit / Rogue screwed both characters for me, though it helps they're completely uncreative about ways to screw each other while avoiding skin to skin contact.

[MartinRedmond]

I liked Scott until he started crippling teenagers as discipline. And the way he dumped Jean, he was a total backstabbing pussy who ran away crying when Jean (the one who wore the pants in their couple) confronted him. Wolverine was equally douchy during GM's run, but it completely ruined Scott for me regardless.

[rwsmith]

Cable - My second favorite character when I started out reading X-men comics. My first issue was X-men #1 by Claremont and Lee and Wolverine was already my favorite character from reading a Spider-man story that guest-starred him. At any rate, after reading X-men #1, I went and bought some back issues including some Uncanny books during The X-Tinction Agenda. Cable immediately stood out to me as being a total badass, and quickly became my second favorite Marvel character.

I then bought X-Force #1 because of him and continued to have a great affinity for the character until after X-Cutioner's Song. I thought he died in a very heroic way at the end of that crossover, and---while the revelation that he was a clone of Scott's son (who had gone mad after being raised by Apocalypse in the far future) needlessly complicated him---it was a nice swansong for this character that I liked so much. So I accepted that and moved on...

Then, however, they bring him back, introduce the whole Askani hot mess, retcon Cable being the clone and make him the original, and (the final straw) launch the Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix where Scott and Jean (who was not even his mother) went to the future and raised him just so Marvel's first couple of the X-books wouldn't look like bad parents! I immediately washed my hands of him and decided that the character I enjoyed died at the end of X-Cutioner's Song...

That is until Mike Carey had him join up with Rogue's team during his X-men run and reminded me of why I liked him so much in the first place. No Askani crap. No mutant messiah. Just a hardened soldier from the future fighting alongside his fellow mutants to make the world better. :cool:

[Mia]

As everyone has stated. Cyclops. Never really loved the character. Found him stiff and self-righteous. However I found him tolerable. However my dislike of him has shot up when he started to mess around on Jean. And his current attempt to play 'bad ass' strategist is really pathetic.

I loved Emma from the get go. However I must say that I got extreemly turned off by the character when they transformed her into a home wrecking skank whose sole purpose is to cling to her boyfriend. She used to be much better than that.

Gambit, Storm and Psylocke. Still love the characters. But can't find anything to get excited about now. They all seem to be treading water.

[Red Savina]

Mia reminded me that I also I feel like Nightcrawler and Colossus have been treading water for a long time. I think they are staples as the blue elf and the big metal guy but do not add much else anymore. Their characters could disappear and the dynamic or tone of their respective books would not change at all.

I also think Mystique has downgraded. She has softened up too much just as Emma Frost has. I think the edge these women had are now gone.

I also concur that Rogue went from awesome to only tolerable under Carey. It was an improvement, but I want more of her personality back.

[Justin K.]

Wolverine, first liked him from 90s cartoon, he was cool. Nice powers, his healing was rarely shown, which again was good.

Over time I realised a few things, the first being over publication can really piss people off. Characterisation has been lost on him years ago, too many appearences to make any real difference or story progressions.

And lastly, you are not a hero if your main offense is 6 lethal claws and you use them on anyone or thing. This murderer shouldn't even be anywhere near a hero team. He (and clone, Staberina) need to learn that they are a last resort.

Stop killing Wolverine and be a hero again.

I'd have to agree with this. When I first started reading the comics, I enjoyed Wolverine.
He's now appearing in so many books, many that don't even play a role in the main canon stories (minis)
So many minis, and he comes off as unkillable, regenerating from a single blood cell is just dumb.
His origin... now don't get me started on that. That's been changed so many times
Too many writers wanna write him and he's just lost his cool... well except in X-Force :tongue:

[Prodigy55]

I thought this was about characters that we loved to make fun of.
Like Rachel Grey.
And Lila Cheney.

[Justin K.]

I thought this was about characters that we loved to make fun of.
Like Rachel Grey.
And Lila Cheney.

What's so bad about Lila?

[Prodigy55]

What's so bad about Lila?

Pretty much everything.

[Justin K.]

Pretty much everything.

Can I have a less vague answer please.

[Prodigy55]

Can I have a less vague answer please.

Her powers.
Her hair.
Her face.
Her "romance" with Sam.
Trying to sell Earth as slaves.
Stealing stuff.
Being ugly.
Her face.
Getting together with Sam again.
Her face.

[Hakael]

Pixie... great as a once and a while supporting player, the one always front and center isn't very appealing.

Storm... Dunno, just don't dig her that much anymore.

[lockerogue]

I used to like Cyclops when I was kid. Mainly because I thought someone shooting beams out their eyes was cool. But then I started reading the comics and started to dislike him. I think he's an okay character but he is certainly last on my list of X-Characters.

I loved HFC club I thought she was amazing. I never got the chance to read Generation X. I plan on reading it soon. I thought Morrison's Emma was okay. At times she came off way to bitchy and that whole falling in love with and stealing other people's men was out character IMO. Milligan changed all of that when he started writing her and I fell in love with character. And now I dislike her again simply because I'm sick of seeing her and would much prefer that she be single or with Banshee. Even though I never read Gen X those 2 seem perfect together.

[Prodigy55]

lockerogue
They are kinda perfect together.

I really liked Emma in both Generation X and New X-Men even though they were pretty different.

[ExodusCloak]

Edit.......

[ExodusCloak]

I used to really like Storm, I don't know I think after they(Claremont) started shoving so many job facets into her I kind of got bored. It wasn't so much that they were adding to her personality wise more so that they just kept allocating different job talents to her and prayed that it worked. Which IMO it did for a while but it started becoming really counterproductive as Storms personality suffered while her natural talents(Powers, Picking Locks) seemed to define her.

[darknessatnoon]

I used to really like Storm, I don't know I think after they(Claremont) started shoving so many job facets into her I kind of got bored. It wasn't so much that they were adding to her personality wise more so that they just kept allocating different job talents to her and prayed that it worked. Which IMO it did for a while but it started becoming really counterproductive as Storms personality suffered while her natural talents(Powers, Picking Locks) seemed to define her.

OMG

Stop hating on the GODDESS?! Are you insane? She can do anything from picking a lock to beating up Sabretooth to altering the world's climate systems. She has also been known to use electricity (one of the four fundamental forces) to create time portals!

[Wind Rider]

Oh, this is a great topic!

Cyclops -- I didn't really know much about him when I first started reading X-Men, other than him being a leader. He was over in X-Factor and it seemed like a rehash of the 1st gen team, so I really wasn't interested. The only old issue I had of him at the time was the one where Storm beat him for leadership in #201. He was over on X-Factor, which I didn't read initially, and didn't come back til later. He was cool as leader of the Blue Team and was a good field strategist. I actually liked his team better before Bishop joined the Gold Team. He soon married Jean and all seemed okay, even though he became boring. It was like married life reduced him, but it fulfilled Jean... but anyway.

Then I left comics for a while and only picked up a couple of X-treme X-Men books because I never saw that before... I come back a few years later and BAM! -- Emma is not only on the team, but Cyke's girlfriend and Jean is dead. Figuring I missed something really good, I go back to catch up and read what happened and I was sick to my stomach. I just KNEW this had to be a White Queen manipulation, but lo and behold, I get scene after scene of them making out in offices and bedrooms... they probably got busy on the Blackbird too. Now, before, Jean was shown to us to be the love of his life practically and all women would pale in comparison to her. Hell, he left a wife and kid for her. Now it just seems like Scott is just some loser dude who don't know what he wants in life and needs some woman to just help him take the edge off his pressures of leading.

I have yet to see him truly follow a woman's lead. Speaking of which, as of late, I see that in order for Scott to shine, Storm, in particular, has to be either removed (on another team), reduced (background wallpaper), or regressed (like when she was a kid). This would be fine if this was always the norm, but I've been reading some of those old 70's/80's issues and I see that they got along much better at that time and there were instances of mutual respect. Emma, for all of her strength and desire to co-lead, is his bed buddy since there really isn't a school to run anymore and he's not sharing his private thoughts with her. Jean was the easiest of this group because she was the sweet and supportive girlfriend and complemented Scott's Alphaness well. He only had problems when Jean became strong around him and then he was thinking it was the Phoenix Force like she couldn't be strong without him. So this need for always having to be the Alpha male does not sit well with me.

Then the hypocrisy of him making these tough choices right after he just went off on Xavier for his secrets... putting teenage kids in danger, even if one of them is a killing machine. Yes, he's exploiting her just like Weapon X was doing instead of helping her. X-23 still has a fragile psyche. He's borderline Magneto. Not that I disagree with the stance. It's just for him, its hypocritical, in my eyes.

So for me, his unbending Alpha-maleness coupled with his hypocrisy and with the main x-book being basically all about Cyke and his bed buddy, I can't deal with his character any longer.

I'm waiting for Marvel to change the title to "Uncanny Cyclops and those other X-Men." :rolleyes:

[Wind Rider]

.... and one more.....

Emma Frost -- I am fine with her being the White Queen. She is totally in character being bitchy, being self-absorbed, being a snob, and being manipulative for her own selfish reasons. I hated the story of how she manipulated her way in between Scott and Jean's marriage, but it was troubled and ripe for something like this to go down. White Queen in character and I liked her because I disliked her as a villain. She's good at being bad. She was witty with her bitchiness and made me laugh sometimes. I LIKED that about her even while I disliked what she did at times.

But she went downhill from there as far as I'm concerned. She was supposed to be a going good, but she was still hurtful to a lot of people... Dani, X-23, Kitty, etc.... and she has yet to offer some real apology for her past actions like to Ororo and Bobby. Yet, she's becoming this Jean-substitute. She's pushed to the front of the line of the X-Men like she's been there forever. Cyke and Jean running Xavier's together made sense because they are were Xavier's first and most trusted students. They just happened to be a couple as well. Cyke and Emma being in charge together makes no sense whatsoever. You're supposed to earn your place on the X-Men team, as I recall. Seems like she just slept her way to the top. I can't respect that. I would really like this story to end with White Queen being bad because then I could respect that part more.... this Emma going good but still doing questionable things to her teammates and not being fully respectful of your teammates, yet still demanding respect? Naw... try again.

Again, she's another one whom in order to be seen as THE ONE, as a leading female character, she can't have other strong female characters around her. She can have young girls as students around, but not other grown women. This is Marvel's fault. Why would you put a woman who is clearly that independent on a team where it is her natural character to want to alienate the women that would seem threatening to her authority? Ok, she's there and having a hard time adjusting... puhleaze :rolleyes: ... snap her azz into the mold of the X-Men Team and get to writing some TEAM stories again.

There used to be a multitude of stories going on in the same issue... is that too difficult to achieve nowadays? Well, get some writers who can work that out! I see C&C doing it over in X-Force and PAD seems to be doing well in X-Factor, so what's the problem with Uncanny, Legacy, and slow azz Astonishing?

Focusing on primarily 2 characters, when you have so many members to deal with is just a huge disservice to X-fans. As a long time fan, I know I'm disappointed. Even the other A and B-listers are off to the wayside... I'm really hoping this will be rectified this year or I may be on another X-hiatus. Only this will be the first time its actually Marvel's doing.

... ok, I'm done ... :biggrin:

[Optic Rage!]

.... and one more.....

Emma Frost -- I am fine with her being the White Queen. She is totally in character being bitchy, being self-absorbed, being a snob, and being manipulative for her own selfish reasons. I hated the story of how she manipulated her way in between Scott and Jean's marriage, but it was troubled and ripe for something like this to go down. White Queen in character and I liked her because I disliked her as a villain. She's good at being bad. She was witty with her bitchiness and made me laugh sometimes. I LIKED that about her even while I disliked what she did at times.

But she went downhill from there as far as I'm concerned. She was supposed to be a going good, but she was still hurtful to a lot of people... Dani, X-23, Kitty, etc.... and she has yet to offer some real apology for her past actions like to Ororo and Bobby. Yet, she's becoming this Jean-substitute. She's pushed to the front of the line of the X-Men like she's been there forever. Cyke and Jean running Xavier's together made sense because they are were Xavier's first and most trusted students. They just happened to be a couple as well. Cyke and Emma being in charge together makes no sense whatsoever. You're supposed to earn your place on the X-Men team, as I recall. Seems like she just slept her way to the top. I can't respect that. I would really like this story to end with White Queen being bad because then I could respect that part more.... this Emma going good but still doing questionable things to her teammates and not being fully respectful of your teammates, yet still demanding respect? Naw... try again.

Again, she's another one whom in order to be seen as THE ONE, as a leading female character, she can't have other strong female characters around her. She can have young girls as students around, but not other grown women. This is Marvel's fault. Why would you put a woman who is clearly that independent on a team where it is her natural character to want to alienate the women that would seem threatening to her authority? Ok, she's there and having a hard time adjusting... puhleaze :rolleyes: ... snap her azz into the mold of the X-Men Team and get to writing some TEAM stories again.

There used to be a multitude of stories going on in the same issue... is that too difficult to achieve nowadays? Well, get some writers who can work that out! I see C&C doing it over in X-Force and PAD seems to be doing well in X-Factor, so what's the problem with Uncanny, Legacy, and slow azz Astonishing?

Focusing on primarily 2 characters, when you have so many members to deal with is just a huge disservice to X-fans. As a long time fan, I know I'm disappointed. Even the other A and B-listers are off to the wayside... I'm really hoping this will be rectified this year or I may be on another X-hiatus. Only this will be the first time its actually Marvel's doing.

... ok, I'm done ... :biggrin:

I think you might just be a tad bitter.

On another note, i dont hate or dislike any X-Man.

I do however think the only well written multi layered X-Men who i find worth reading about are Cyclops, Emma, Wolverine, Storm[not in the past few years]

I'm apathetic about the rest.

And i think these threads suck, no offence Justin, but they are just a breeding ground for negativity and stupidity.

[Mia]

I think you might just be a tad bitter.

I disagree. Wind Riders' post above is not only brilliant. But it also emphasizes a great deal of what is wrong with Marvel books. Too much stuff being made up for convenience that just does not work.

[jarrod]

I thought this was about characters that we loved to make fun of.
Like Rachel Grey.
And Lila Cheney.
j'rod is NOT amused.

[darknessatnoon]

Emma does not share power with other women. How is this such a troubling and difficult concept for people?

[jarrod]

Emma does not share power with other women. How is this such a troubling and difficult concept for people?
She backed down pretty quick when Storm took over topping Havok.

But I guess Storm's not a "woman" originally...

[MartinRedmond]

OMG

Stop hating on the GODDESS?! Are you insane? She can do anything from picking a lock to beating up Sabretooth to altering the world's climate systems. She has also been known to use electricity (one of the four fundamental forces) to create time portals!

Your posts always brighten up my day!!!

[Optic Rage!]

I disagree. Wind Riders' post above is not only brilliant. But it also emphasizes a great deal of what is wrong with Marvel books. Too much stuff being made up for convenience that just does not work.

I don't care?

Your opinion does not equal fact.

[jarrod]

Your posts always brighten up my day!!!
Can't Storm also breathe underwater?

She should've married Namor instead. Maybe she would have if she knew Emma was into him?

[Mia]

I don't care?

You must, otherwise you wouldn't be taking the time to comment.



Your opinion does not equal fact.

Never said that it did. This being a MB I thought that it would be obvious that I was expressing my opinion. But I guess it's not obvious to all.

[Brian Cronin]

Justin, I totally appreciate how much you tried to make this strictly a critical approach-type thread.

Thank you.

But I didn't think it would work when I first saw it, and after giving it a chance, I don't think it WILL work.

-Brian