Final Crisis reading order....

[mofo]

So now that it's (mostly) done, I need some help figuring out the reading order for FC
this is what i got so far:

1) Seven Soldiers: Mister Miracle 1 - 4
2) Seven Soldiers 1
3) DC Universe 0
4) Batman 676 - 683 [RIP]
5) Justice League of America 21
6) Final Crisis 1
7) Final Crisis: Rogues Revenge 1 - 3
8) Final Crisis: Requiem
9) Final Crisis 2
10) Final Crisis 3
11) Final Crisis: Superman Beyond 1 - 2
12) Final Crisis: Legion of 3 Worlds 1 - 5
13) Final Crisis: Revelations 1 - 5
14) Final Crisis: Resist
15) Final Crisis: Submit
16) Final Crisis 4
17) Batman 682 - 683
18) Final Crisis 5 - 7

Not considered:
Final Crisis: Rage of the Red Lanterns (because it has nothing to do with Final Crisis)
Final Crisis: Secret Files (didn't push the Final Crisis main storyline forward in any way whatsoever)
DC Universe: Last Will & Testament (again, nothing to do with the main storyline)

[mofo]

no one?
no comments?
i got you all speechless with my perfect reading order then!?!
awesome

[SpaceBooger]

Here is how I am reading it:

0. Mister Miracle Mini
then
1. DCU Zero
2. Justice League #21
3. FC 1
4. Requiem 1
5. FC 2
6. FC 3
7. Superman Beyond 1
8. Superman Beyond 2
9. Submit
10. FC 4
11. Resist
12. FC 5
13. Batman 682
14. Batman 683
15. FC-Secret Files
16. FC 6
17. FC 7

I am not reading Rouges Revenge again, it didn't seem to be directly related other than the Rouges refused to join Libra's team... It seemed to be more of a tie-in for Flash: Rebirth.
As for Revelations I would put it between #5 and 6 on my list

[Seraku]

(Animal Man)

(Rock of Ages)

Seven Soldiers Event

DC Universe #0

(Rise of the Olympian)
(Batman R.I.P.)

Justice League of America #21

Final Crisis #1

(Rage of the Red Lanterns)

Final Crisis: Rogues' Revenge #1-#3

Final Crisis: Requiem #1

Final Crisis #2-#3

Final Crisis: Superman Beyond 3D #1-#2
Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds #1-#5

Final Crisis: Revelations #1-#5

Final Crisis: Resist #1

Final Crisis: Submit #1

Final Crisis #4-#5

Batman #682-#683

Final Crisis #6-#7



first person who asks were "DC Universe: Last Will & Testament" goes dies

[maraxus60]

Heres my question, can you truly get a sense of whats going by only reading the mini? It seems like I missed things just by reading the mini and it feels like ALOT has happened off panel. am I hort changing myself by not getting the rest of the minis?

[Seraku]

FC will not make sense at all without reading Superman Beyond

the Batman tie-ins are also pretty important but not essential, same goes for Submit.

[the4thpip]

So now that it's (mostly) done, I need some help figuring out the reading order for FC
this is what i got so far [for simplicity's sake, im not going to consider the Rage of the Red Lanterns tie in...yes i know its supposed to be between FC1 and 2, but that's a complete load of crap]:

FC 1
Rogues revenge mini
FC 2
Requiem
FC 3
Superman Beyond mini
Submit
Resist
Legion of 3 Worlds mini
FC4
FC5
FC6
FC7

my only problem is Revelations
i have NO idea whatsover on when this occurs
probably during the one month gap?

anywho
ideas/corrections anyone?

edit: im also iffy about Rogues Revenge....

You forgot the interviews with Grant M. one has to read to get the series. Where do those fit?

[AN0LE]

(Animal Man)

(Rock of Ages)

Seven Soldiers Event

DC Universe #0

(Rise of the Olympian)
(Batman R.I.P.)

Justice League of America #21

Final Crisis #1

(Rage of the Red Lanterns)

Final Crisis: Rogues' Revenge #1-#3

Final Crisis: Requiem #1

Final Crisis #2-#3

Final Crisis: Superman Beyond 3D #1-#2
Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds #1-#5

Final Crisis: Revelations #1-#5

Final Crisis: Resist #1

Final Crisis: Submit #1

Final Crisis #4-#5

Batman #682-#683

Final Crisis #6-#7



first person who asks were "DC Universe: Last Will & Testament" goes dies

I must concur that Resist definitely comes before FC4.... Mister Terrific has already made it back to Checkmate castle by FC4.

[AN0LE]

So now that it's (mostly) done, I need some help figuring out the reading order for FC
this is what i got so far [for simplicity's sake, im not going to consider the Rage of the Red Lanterns tie in...yes i know its supposed to be between FC1 and 2, but that's a complete load of crap]:

FC 1
Rogues revenge mini
FC 2
Requiem
FC 3
Superman Beyond mini
Submit
Resist
Legion of 3 Worlds mini
FC4
FC5
FC6
FC7

my only problem is Revelations
i have NO idea whatsover on when this occurs
probably during the one month gap?

anywho
ideas/corrections anyone?

edit: im also iffy about Rogues Revenge....

Revelations most likely takes place during the one month gap between FC3 and 4. Catwoman and Batwoman have not taken their place as the new Furies yet and are still in Gotham. Also, it appears as though the ALE has just begun to spread as Revelations gets going.

[Seraku]

I personally think it happens concurrently with FC #3 and goes on after it.

[Scott Taylor]

Revelations #1 happens during and right after FC #1, whereas Revelations #s 2 through 4 happen concurrently with FC #s 2-4.

What about Rage of the Red Lanterns? ;)

[Zombie Uatu]

On Newsarama, Morrison posted the reading or for his personally written parts as:

SEVEN SOLDIERS: MISTER MIRACLE #1-4
FINAL CRISIS # 1- 3
SUPERMAN BEYOND # 1- 2
SUBMIT
FINAL CRISIS # 4 – 5
BATMAN #682 – 683
FINAL CRISIS # 6 – 7

I would expect Resist to go in directly after Submit, and Legion of Three Worlds after Superman Beyond, though it clearly ends directly before Final Crisis #6. I'm not sure about the other tie-ins, but my list at the moment would be (CAPS=Morrison, Normal=Me):

SEVEN SOLDIERS: MISTER MIRACLE #1-4
FINAL CRISIS # 1- 3
SUPERMAN BEYOND # 1- 2
Legion of Three Worlds #1-?
SUBMIT
Resist
FINAL CRISIS # 4 – 5
BATMAN #682 – 683
Legion of Three Worlds #?-5
FINAL CRISIS # 6 – 7

[HopeLantern]

I am actually counting Rage of the Red Lanterns as part of Final Crisis, so if you are too, I'm guessing that entire arc takes place between FC #1 and FC#2.

[Zombie Uatu]

I am actually counting Rage of the Red Lanterns as part of Final Crisis, so if you are too, I'm guessing that entire arc takes place between FC #1 and FC#2.

If you're counting the whole of Rage of the Red Lanters as part of FC, are you counting Batman: RIP as well? Thematically it seems similar, where would you place it? I'd be tempted to put it between 'Mr Miracle' and FC#1, but then it goes directly into FC #6 as well.

[HopeLantern]

If you're counting the whole of Rage of the Red Lanters as part of FC, are you counting Batman: RIP as well? Thematically it seems similar, where would you place it? I'd be tempted to put it between 'Mr Miracle' and FC#1, but then it goes directly into FC #6 as well.

Good question... after reading the two "Last Rites" issues, RIP definitely goes between Mr. Miracle and FC #1. At the end of RIP, is when he gets the call from the JLA about Orion's death. I think the 2 issues that follow RIP that go back over Bruce's life take place directly before FC#6. That's how I'm reading it.

Now here's another question... when/where does "New Krypton" take place? I still can't tell if that's after or before FC...

[Zombie Uatu]

Good question... after reading the two "Last Rites" issues, RIP definitely goes between Mr. Miracle and FC #1. At the end of RIP, is when he gets the call from the JLA about Orion's death. I think the 2 issues that follow RIP that go back over Bruce's life take place directly before FC#6. That's how I'm reading it.

Now here's another question... when/where does "New Krypton" take place? I still can't tell if that's after or before FC...

It's either well before or a ways after. I'd say after because thematically it feels more like an after-FC story (or the parts I read before giving it up did, anyway) than a 'day evil won' story.

[mofo]

ok made some changes...
added revelations, seven soldiers, the batman issues, dc universe 0 and justice league

anything else?
if not then ill just tidy up the list so it looks nice!

[Zombie Uatu]

Seven Soldiers #1 is pretty key and should probably go in after Mister Miracle. I'm undecided about whether to consider the whole Seven Soldiers event as a sort of prologue or not.

Also, don't know whether you want to consider Countdown or not. If you didn't enjoy then leave it out.

Technically, since this is the 'third part of the crisis trilogy', COIE and Infinite Crisis both also belong in there. That opens up a whole can of worms though. Should we also include Zero Hour? 52? Death of the New Gods? I'd say the timeline between IC and FC is something like:

IC
Seven Soldiers
52
Countdown
FC (as ordered above by Mofo)

But there may also be other stories that ought to be involved.

[mofo]

okay added Seven Soldiers 1 (thnx Zombie Uato)

[Seraku]

Seven Soldiers #1 happens AFTER the Mister Miracle mini.

also I'd say that the current arc of WW is between DCU0 and FC1, and the current arc of GLC during FC1

[mofo]

ok fixed the seven soldiers mistake...
couple of notes:

i am debating whether i should add the GL arc where the Alpha Lanterns are created (anyone know which issues those were?)
didnt add COIE or IC since, although they were the 1st 2 parts of the trilogy, they dont have much to do with FC...
Countdown and DotNG were horrible and don't deserve to be on the reading list

SPANX

[mofo]

umm is it possible for Paul Newell to give this list his approval?
:biggrin:

[mofo]

do you people think its key that the Lightning Saga is added to the list? because it helps to understand Lo3W?

[Shatagni]

do you people think its key that the Lightning Saga is added to the list? because it helps to understand Lo3W?

Nah, I just place Geoff Jones's "Superman and the Legion" arc (Action comics 858-864) before Lo3W since it takes place right after Earth man's Xenophobic aftermath.

There were only a few references to the Lightning Saga, which I admittedly never read, but nothing that bothered me.

Plus, you get that cool Jones-style teaser which makes the whole reading experience fun.

[Seraku]

I think Lo3W is relatively new reader friendly. Superman & The Legion would be the most I'd tack on. Lightning Saga is pretty skipable unless you're a diehard Flash/JSA/LoSH fan

[Magneto Rocks]

I can't believe I'm saying this but-

There's one problem with all these read orders, and it's actually a problem with the one Grant himself gave.

The two Batman issues HAVE to come before Final Crisis #5. I know that Batman escaping leads directly into FC6, but in issue 5, Mokkari reveals the end of the second Batman issue before being killed by Darkseid. So I'd move FC5 down a place to put it with 6-7.

[mofo]

I can't believe I'm saying this but-

There's one problem with all these read orders, and it's actually a problem with the one Grant himself gave.

The two Batman issues HAVE to come before Final Crisis #5. I know that Batman escaping leads directly into FC6, but in issue 5, Mokkari reveals the end of the second Batman issue before being killed by Darkseid. So I'd move FC5 down a place to put it with 6-7.

thats correct! i thought mokkari's line was in FC 6....stupid me!
ill fix it now

edit: fixed
also there seem to be a couple of these reading order threads...think they should be merged into one thread...mods?

[Captain Jim]

8) Final Crisis 2
9) Final Crisis: Requiem


Requiem has to come before FC #2 because Batman is in Requiem and he's captured by the Evil Factory near the end of FC #2.

[Seraku]

yeah, Requiem starts during FC #1 and ends at the beginning of FC #2

[mofo]

fixed the Requiem "snafu"...
bring on the next change!

[Magneto Rocks]

If you want to stick all series together, then it works fine as far as I can see. If you're open to breaking them up, then 'Revelations #1' has to occur before Final Crisis #3, as does the vast majority of Revelations #2.

[mofo]

i think keeping them together is better since you get to read the whole story in one chunk, while taking "a break" from the main story line

[Captain Jim]

1) Seven Soldiers: Mister Miracle 1 - 4
2) Seven Soldiers 1
4) Batman 676 - 683 [RIP]
4) DC Universe 0

I'm not really sure why the first three items are even listed here, but it occurs to me that there is a problem. DC Universe 0 contains material that leads into FC, but it also contains material that leads into RIP. So it's obvious not accurate to imply that DC Universe 0 takes place after RIP.

DC Universe: Last Will & Testament (again, nothing to do with the main storyline)

Maybe not, but can someone please tell me where it fits?

[drinkblatzbeer]

I'm not really sure why the first three items are even listed here, but it occurs to me that there is a problem. DC Universe 0 contains material that leads into FC, but it also contains material that leads into RIP. So it's obvious not accurate to imply that DC Universe 0 takes place after RIP.


the mister miracle and also seven soldiers #1 really put into perspective where we were at the beginning on final crisis #1...

as far as DCU 0, all that wanted to do was show us what was upcoming in stories...i don't think it was meant to all be happening at once...

[mofo]

I'm not really sure why the first three items are even listed here, but it occurs to me that there is a problem. DC Universe 0 contains material that leads into FC, but it also contains material that leads into RIP. So it's obvious not accurate to imply that DC Universe 0 takes place after RIP.



Maybe not, but can someone please tell me where it fits?

thank you ser
issue is fixed

and as for DCU: last will.....that ball is up in the air
no one knows when it takes place
i like to think that any plot points not involving geo-force and deathstroke did not happen...

[Captain Jim]

Interestingly, Morrison said in a recent interview that the Death of the New Gods mini leads into Severn Soldiers: Mister Miracle. (Interesting since they weren't published in that order, and also because he acknowledges DOTNG.)

And, what? Nobody has any theory as to where DCU: Last Will & Testament takes place?

[friginator]

And, what? Nobody has any theory as to where DCU: Last Will & Testament takes place?

Last Will and Testament was supposed to take place between #3 and #4, as that's when Meltzer wrote it as taking place, but in this article (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=16005) Grant morrison said,

"There were some things that J.G. had inspired in me which began to feed into some of the issues I was working on, so issue #3, for instance, changed quite considerably and #4 changed too."

...meaning that the script was changed, and LWAT didn't make sense for the story. According to this article (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=16693) Brad Meltzer had the script (apparently not the updated version) when he wrote LWAT. So at the end of #3, all the heroes originally got together to go fight, and the sun not coming up apparently was part of it. LWAT was going to be a Final Crisis tie-in, but when it was released the Final Crisis design was clearly missing, indicating that DC knew the story didn't make sense.

[Captain Jim]

Last Will and Testament was supposed to take place between #3 and #4, as that's when Meltzer wrote it as taking place, but in this article (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=16005) Grant morrison said,

"There were some things that J.G. had inspired in me which began to feed into some of the issues I was working on, so issue #3, for instance, changed quite considerably and #4 changed too."

...meaning that the script was changed, and LWAT didn't make sense for the story. According to this article (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=16693) Brad Meltzer had the script (apparently not the updated version) when he wrote LWAT. So at the end of #3, all the heroes originally got together to go fight, and the sun not coming up apparently was part of it. LWAT was going to be a Final Crisis tie-in, but when it was released the Final Crisis design was clearly missing, indicating that DC knew the story didn't make sense.

Thanks, that's helpful. But who's J.G.?

[drinkblatzbeer]

most likely the artist, j.g. jones...

[Captain Jim]

most likely the artist, j.g. jones...

Duh. Thanks.

[Magneto Rocks]

Interestingly, Morrison said in a recent interview that the Death of the New Gods mini leads into Severn Soldiers: Mister Miracle. (Interesting since they weren't published in that order, and also because he acknowledges DOTNG.)

Actually, he specifically said- "The event we experienced as the Death of the New Gods" implying, as his other comments have, that it was merely a mortal attempt to sum up the catastrophic war in Heaven in an event within human comprehension.

Also, Darkseid fell backwards through time to Earth, so it takes place after SS.

[Captain Jim]

Actually, he specifically said- "The event we experienced as the Death of the New Gods" implying, as his other comments have, that it was merely a mortal attempt to sum up the catastrophic war in Heaven in an event within human comprehension.


So this was a dis? Feh, I thought DOTNG was a lot closer to the spirit of Jack Kirby than anything in FC.

[friginator]

Feh, I thought DOTNG was a lot closer to the spirit of Jack Kirby than anything in FC.

I hated Death of the New Gods. Clearly Starlin was trying to mimic the style in terms of dialogue (and often art), but there was nothing new or original in it, which was something Kirby always tried to do. Instead it was done in Kirby's style (everyone yelling, energy dots everywhere, etc.) The characters monologue about themselves, which they did in Kirby's stories, but the monologues were essentially storytelling devices intended to add to the mythology on his part, not actual character traits intended to be repeated again and again. It was two-dimensional characters doing two-dimensional things, and they all die in very boring, monotonous, meaningless deaths throughout the series. Bascially they only died by editorial mandate, and without any sort of grief or loss on the part of the other heroes. Barda dies offscreen suddenly, the characters go "Oh no! Barda's dead!" And then of course the killer turned out to be the source, which is blatantly against what Kirby created the source as meaning. The ONLY idea I thought was the least bit inspired was Darkseid trying to prevent his own death by letting Apokalyps be destroyed, as that's where he was prophesized to die. Grant Morrison, on the other hand, injected Kirby's existing ideas and injected all kinds of new concepts into them. While DOTNG was Kirby's-style, Final Crisis was done the way Kirby intended the characters to grow.

[Shatagni]

14) Final Crisis: Resist
15) Final Crisis: Submit

Woah Waitaminute, Resist occurs BEFORE Submit? Can somebody confirm if that's the right order?

[mofo]

i dont think its ever clear which order they occur in...

[iccccceman]

At the end of Submit on the DC Nation page it says that Resist is next.
Also, does revelations need to be read as one chunk or what? I am trying to read these as in order as possible and have heard that parts of revelations overlap with FC 4-7, can anyone confirm?

[iccccceman]

Found this order elsewhere, any problems with it?

DC Universe #0
Justice League of America #21
Final Crisis 1
Final Crisis: Requiem 1
Final Crisis: Rage of the Red Lanterns 1
Final Crisis 2
Final Crisis: Rogues' Revenge 1
Final Crisis 3
DCU: Last Will and Testament 1
Final Crisis: Superman Beyond 3D 1 and 2
Final Crisis: Legion of 3 Worlds 1-5
Final Crisis: Rogues' Revenge 2
Final Crisis: Rogues' Revenge 3
Final Crisis: Revelations 1-4
Final Crisis: Submit 1
Final Crisis 4
Final Crisis: Resist 1
Final Crisis 5
Batman 682 and 683
Final Crisis 6
Final Crisis: Revelations 5
Final Crisis 7

[T Hedge Coke]

I'm the only one who didn't read the Supes two-parter and didn't feel remotely lost when a new villainous character showed up in FC, aren't I?

Then, again, I grew up reading comics out of order (usually via quarter bin or whatever actually made it to a spinner rack), and Morrison has talked before about how spotty release of contiguous issues could be in his childhood. Maybe, you have to be trained to enter, enjoy, and leave the DCU in a certain way before just the seven basic issues do the trick?

I actually think the more you bring to the Final Crisis table, the worse off you might be... especially if you're continuity-paranoid, because then things like DotNG or Countdown really throw the works wonky.

[jtd]

Start from the last issue and read every other issue backwards.

Final Crisis may actually make some sense that way.

(I kid. I kid...kinda) :wink:

[Paj Meen Ah]

Sorry if this counts as thread necromancy, but I have a question:

I'm a big Morrison fan, and want to give this a go, but would like to know how to go about it in terms of what trades to buy. Obviously Final Crisis, but where would I find things like Resist and Submit? I have all of Seven Soldiers and R.I.P, as well as having read storylines from years ago that kinda link thematically, but yeah. What else can i find in trade form that is essential to the Final Crisis story? I'm not too interested in things like Rage of the Red Lanterns as I hear that has little connection.

Thanks for any help.

[Munkiman]

Sorry if this counts as thread necromancy, but I have a question:

I'm a big Morrison fan, and want to give this a go, but would like to know how to go about it in terms of what trades to buy. Obviously Final Crisis, but where would I find things like Resist and Submit? I have all of Seven Soldiers and R.I.P, as well as having read storylines from years ago that kinda link thematically, but yeah. What else can i find in trade form that is essential to the Final Crisis story? I'm not too interested in things like Rage of the Red Lanterns as I hear that has little connection.

Thanks for any help.
The Final Crisis trade contains the main seven issues PLUS Submit and Superman Beyond. Basically, everything written by Morrison other than the Batman tie-ins, which are in R.I.P. That's everything essential. Resist doesn't affect the story much.

However, Resist is a good story, and if you want to read that you can get the Final Crisis Companion. This contains the script and lineart for issue 1, commentary on issue 1 by Grant Morrison and J.G. Jones, Final Crisis: Resist, Final Crisis: Secret Files (origin of Libra) and Final Crisis: Requiem (expands on the death of J'onn J'onnz, his funeral, the reaction of his friends, etc.). There are also a couple pages of colored sketches by Jones, with little annotations. It shows the Justifiers, Dark Mary Marvel, Earth-4's Captain Adam, the Super Young Team's Wonder Wagon, Doc Fate of Earth-20, Overman and Overgirl of Earth-10, Mandrakk the Dark Monitor, Superdemon of Earth-17, Weeja Dell and Aquaman.

Basically, Final Crisis Companion isn't essential at all to understanding the story but it contains some cool extra stuff. For more cool extra stuff, you can get the Final Crisis Sketchbook.

[Paul Newell]

There's 5 trades:

Final Crisis
Final Crisis Companion
Final Crisis: Rogues Revenge
Final Crisis: Revelations
Final Crisis: Legion of 3 Worlds

The Final Crisis trade contains the mini, Superman Beyond, Submit and some of the Sketchbook.

the Companion contains the Secret Files, Requiem, Resist, the Director's Cut and some of the Sketchbook.

The other three contain the mini's.

[Paj Meen Ah]

Ok, thanks a lot.

Think I'll get Final Crisis in trade on it's own and see what happens from there. :)

[threefourths]

I know the reading order says to insert Batman RIP in, were you talking about the whole series (battle for the cowl, etc....) or just the RIP storyline. I know this read is old, but i'm just curious.

[Uxas]

Just the RIP storyline... though it's only the 2 issues after RIP (collected in the RIP HC trade) that tie to FC directly.