Final Crisis #7 Spoilers

[Sean Walsh]

(Pardon my extra comment in the title there - I'm still kinda impressed that #7 is coming out on time.)

http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=25503

Curious. Opening pages don't continue directly from #6's ending (and really, is it surprising that Morrison starts the issue any other way? :wink: ) but it gives some impression, I think, that Darkseid isn't quite defeated yet, which is a comfort for the moment.

Discuss!

[bfrank]

( I'm still kinda impressed that #7 is coming out on time.)
!

lol...

I love that black superman still has a spit curl.....

[mdg1]

That doesn't entirely surprise me. If Darkseid has possessed over half of the population of the Earth, losing his primary "flesh suit" would be at worst a minor irritation.

It's the divine equivalent of spilling ketchup on a new suit. :)

[Liberty Belle Fan]

This looks crazy! I'm looking forward to the final resolution.

[CMBMOOL]

I should have known that DC wouldn't pass up a chance to make fun of our new president. :tongue:

[VicVasDeferens]

So, Obama does exist as Superman in the DCU, after all.

Remember, at the formal white-tie dinner when then-senator, now-President Obama joked that he wasn't born in a manger, but was actually sent by his father, Jor-el, to save Earth?

Seems, like Grant picked up on that.

[Sean Walsh]

I should have known that DC wouldn't pass up a chance to make fun of our new president. :tongue:

Making fun?

Unlike Marvel, they actually MADE him a superhero! A SUPERMAN, no less!

[Mat001]

Remember Earth-D from the Legends Of The DC Universe issue, which was billed as a lost chapter to "Crisis On Infinite Earths"? This is also a call back to that. Only taken to a new level with this Superman being a President.

[VicVasDeferens]

Remember Earth-D from the Legends Of The DC Universe issue, which was billed as a lost chapter to "Crisis On Infinite Earths"? This is also a call back to that. Only taken to a new level with this Superman being a President.

Actually, that Superman and his universe died.
I think this Superman being a President is Morrison's nod to Obama's Superman joke.

[THEDOC]

Remember Alex Ross did that Superman homage to Obama and I think The Prez had his picture taken with the Superman statue in Metropolis Illinois.

[bfrank]

Making fun?

Unlike Marvel, they actually MADE him a superhero! A SUPERMAN, no less!
Right!

tencharacters

[4thHorseman]

Yep. Obama is now a Superman. Where is this in the news headlines for some cheap gimmick sales?

[Buried Alien]

That doesn't entirely surprise me. If Darkseid has possessed over half of the population of the Earth, losing his primary "flesh suit" would be at worst a minor irritation.

It's the divine equivalent of spilling ketchup on a new suit. :)

Of course, it does sort of mean that Batman "died" in vain.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[flapjaxx]

I think it does count as some sort of tongue-in-cheek reference or whatever...but the character does NOT look like Barack Obama, and I doubt that's the character's real name. I don't know if this black superhero alternative reality has been showcased before, but from what I can see this is "just" a black president who's also Superman. Put it this way, if DC advertised this as an Obama appearance, people would be crying foul--very loudly. Still, it's definitely a neat nod.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Of course, it does sort of mean that Batman "died" in vain.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)


He did damage the heck out of Darkseid, and I'm sure the poison will run it's course.


Think of it like Barry and Anti-Monitor.

[HopeLantern]

I must find out the name of this which Earth this is! That was a very, very cool opening sequence!

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Of course, it does sort of mean that Batman "died" in vain.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)


He did damage the heck out of Darkseid, and I'm sure the poison will run it's course.


Think of it like Barry and Anti-Monitor.

[mdg1]

Of course, it does sort of mean that Batman "died" in vain.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Which may be why DC isn't milking this one. I'm betting Bruce is back by the end of this issue (although perhaps not as Batman)

[cheshire42]

I remember that lost chapter of Crisis. It was a pretty cool story. It may have been destroyed then (whatever that means any more!), only to return in some style in FC#7. Getting destroyed, absorbed, etc. in COIE hasn't slowed them down in bringing back Earth-2, Earth-3, Earth-S, etc in their latest incarnations, after all.

[mofo]

ummmm
what role do christian alamy and tom nguyen play in the creation of the issue?

[rev sully]

I think "Black" Superman is a new version of SUNSHINE SUPERMAN!!!
WOW!

A new Earth-D maybe...
http://www.blacksuperhero.com/images/exh-dcsupes2.jpg
but the inverted logo colors are more like Sunshine Superman's
http://blaklion.best.vwh.net/images/Dreamworld.jpg
...and Sunshine Superman's shield ended up being the motif for the Solar Suit in ALL-STAR SUPERMAN #11 versus Solaris the Tyrant Sun...BTW...
I'm thinking Dreamworld and the LSD but grown up in the New Multiverse.
Although the logos are very close.

Hop on board the Ultima Thule...Yellow Submarine, Yellow Submarine.
"It's OK to come down now, Ringo...Yoko's gone!" -Bill Hicks.
WE'LL KNOW WEDNESDAY!!!

[rev sully]

ummmm
what role do christian alamy and tom nguyen play in the creation of the issue?

Inkers and colorists do lots...a great comic is almost like a band. Grant Morrison & Frank Quietly are like Maynard & Danny Carey

[Jim Hall]

Was it this guy?
http://www.leachpunk.com/black_superman.jpg

[Karl O'Neill]

ummmm
what role do christian alamy and tom nguyen play in the creation of the issue?

Two inkers who work with doug mahkne on a regular basis.

[Magneto Rocks]

Wow. I think that all those complaining that the multiverse wasn't really being used must be silent now between this and Superman Beyond!

[Seraku]

Actually, that Superman and his universe died..

the same way Earth-Two died and was replaced with Earth-2

this earth replaced Earth-D

[Clairaudient Freedom Soldier]

Captain Allen Adam is conspicuously missing ...

[Red_Knight]

So, is FC #7 double-sized or something? 'Cos if it's not, I don't have the faintest clue how Morrison could possibly wrap this thing up in any way, shape or form. I was sure #7 was going to be wall-to-wall action and progress. I certainly wasn't expecting to see the first four pages devoted to bringing in yet more new elements. I'm thrilled to see where this goes...

[Wind-Breaker]

*stands up and claps* Wow Dido was a man of his word, he got Final Crisis fully released before Comic Con. I'd never thought that would happen.

When I checked the previews, for a second there I thought that was Obama and DC was gonna one up Marvel by saying "Oh yeah? Well while Obama may be appearing with a superhero in your books, Obama litterally is a superhero in ours!" Then I remember that DC uses fictional presidents, and that was alternate universe Superman lol. Would have been hilarous if that was true.

[HVulpes]

If Obama is President Superman in this universe... who is the Batman of that Universe? John MacCain? George Bush? Bill Clinton?

Just a little Humour...

[Wind-Breaker]

If Obama is President Superman in this universe... who is the Batman of that Universe? John MacCain? George Bush? Bill Clinton?

Just a little Humour...

Hillary Clinton as Wonder Woman?

http://www.doubletake-media.com/movie_of_the_weak_wonder_woman_comp.jpg

[JumpingJupiter]

wait, what?

[Scott Taylor]

Ah ok, so those pages are Montoya's gathering of the team to end all teams. Checkmate's grand design for when the shit really hits the fan. Cool.

[Trey]

Quick, who are all the Supermen behind Captain Marvel and The Question?

Also, Morrison is insane. The good kind.

[HaroldAllnut]

Sunshine Superman!

Quick, who are all the Supermen behind Captain Marvel and The Question?

Also, Morrison is insane. The good kind.

This is bloody excellent.

[mdg1]

So, is FC #7 double-sized or something?.

Yes, as it happens.

[GRANT!]

Most writers would try to wind stuff down in their last issue but Morriosn crams even more stuff into the first few pages. Awesome.

[blackphoenix]

WOW
Those five pages made up for the general lame-ness of FC(IMHO) so far. The parallel heroes should have been showing up right from the beginning! Why wait to the last issue to bring them out? I wasn't going to buy this issue, but now I am so there. This issue needs to be double sized.
Black Superman! Hells yeah! I still have my dog eared copy of "Crisis 4 1/2" and I was hoping that he would show up in this!! I just hope he doesn't get killed--he still has to dig us out from the crap Bush left us under!:tongue: Props to Morison for making Nubia (the sister of Diana made from brown clay in the Silver Age) the Wonder Woman of that Earth! "Music of the spheres." Is that a reference to the Doctor Who proms mini-episode? DC needs to revisit this world when the Crisis is over.

PS Why the hell is Montoya/Question 2.0 with a team of alternate reality supermen??

[HVulpes]

Earlier in the Thread I suggested that George Bush was Batman... I apologize to Batman for the Slander.

Obvious George Bush was this world's Lex Luthor who started a War with Iraq to get Saddam's Kryptonite deposits. Yet the war in Afganistan was cause by Bin Lidin as he was a bigger monster the Luthor. Most of the time.

Or was George the Patsy and Dick Chaney the true Luthor?

Sorry, I return you to your regular thread.

[He who laughs last]

Shooting from the hip.

Battle Royale. Everybody dies. Nix/Metron/Bat-Jesus/Morrison himself must reconstitute everything that was in the Bleed/Orrery. Rather than face everything collapsing into a singularity as New Earth falls, some new omniverse is reborn with infinite timestreams/realities somehow. Not sure how other titles or plot lines would be affected. But that won't matter. It's Morrison.

Morrison's 'twist' will be something mundane and convoluted, but somehow mindblowing to pseudo-intellectuals. Fanboys will rejoice, and cry, and flame eachother for weeks on end.

Sounds about par for the course.

[mofo]

Inkers and colorists do lots...a great comic is almost like a band. Grant Morrison & Frank Quietly are like Maynard & Danny Carey

yes sir!
a fellow tool fan!
pleased to make your aquaintance
pryed open the third eye yet?

[Tobias March]

edi: nothing to see here

[Retro315]

The idea of a "Blaxploitation Universe" is a neat one.

It's a notion that'll have to be treaded carefully, sure, but I like how this sequence pokes fun at President Obama and still retains the fact that this is Superman in that Universe.

Wonder Woman as "Nubia" is a little more overt, but still pretty funny. Again, as long as they're careful with that idea. It'd also be neat to see a guy like Black Lightning pop up as "White Lightning".

There's tremendous potential to poke fun at 1970's cliches and comics as well. Especially since there's like zero "sci-fi rationalization" that could really make the concept of "black/white switch" superheroes make any sense. That makes it all the funnier.

What I did wonder about though ... the Superman of the Tangent Universe is a black guy as well, and not only that ... it's Harvey Dent! (I haven't read any of the Tangent: Superman's Reign stuff ... but does Harvey in that have any semblance to Billy Dee Williams? That would be grade-A nerd-gasm amazing ...)

Anyway, is the Tangent Harvey Dent going to be part of this Superman-Brigade?

Dig the Question's new costume. Not as much as the old costume ... but for the angle they're playing I dig it.

More of the Fawcett Captain Marvel is always amazing.

The Morrison style knock-offs of all the Superman knock-offs out there is also amazing.

I'm looking forward to seeing where this acid-trip sojourn goes.

[Will.S]

Looks ok so far but I can't possibly see this having a satisfying ending.

[Liberty Belle Fan]

I've read the preview multiple times now and I can honestly say that Final Crisis has been one of the best titles I've read from DC since Geoff Johns revitalized the Green Lantern franchise in a way that I never thought possible. I only wish that Grant would write a team book that was affiliated in some way with the DCU proper.

It's coming out THIS WEDNESDAY!!!

[KYLeo71]

Wonder Woman as "Nubia" is a little more overt, but still pretty funny. Again, as long as they're careful with that idea.
Well, truthfully, the idea of Nubia as WW is more of a play on actual established pre-Crisis WW history. WW actually did have a black Amazon sister (who was said to have also been created by Hippolyta at the same time as she created Diana) named Nubia who as introduced in the 1970s. They even introduced a Nubia doll to do along with the WW Mego doll that was created to tie into the WW tv show. Nubia was renamed Nu'bia post-Crisis.

http://www.amazonarchives.com/Images/206p3.JPG

http://www.amazonarchives.com/Images/206.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/10/NubiaDoll.jpg

[Retro315]

Well, truthfully, the idea of Nubia as WW is more of a play on actual established pre-Crisis WW history. WW actually did have a black Amazon sister (who was said to have also been created by Hippolyta at the same time as she created Diana) named Nubia who as introduced in the 1970s. They even introduced a Nubia doll to do along with the WW Mego doll that was created to tie into the WW tv show. Nubia was renamed Nu'bia post-Crisis.


Awesome. I did not know that, and so that makes her being the Wonder Woman of that reality more legit.

On a lighter note ... leopard-print? For real?! I'm feeling that 70's Blaxploitation vibe even more now.

[DeadXMan]

.....The Hell?
:confused:

[lepeos]

Nice Watchmen reference in the first panel too, it seems to me Morrisson is poking fun at all the attention the new President seems to be getting from the comics industry.

And yeah, is this slated to be a double sized issue or what?

[celticguy]

The idea of a "Blaxploitation Universe" is a neat one.

It's a notion that'll have to be treaded carefully, sure, but I like how this sequence pokes fun at President Obama and still retains the fact that this is Superman in that Universe.

Wonder Woman as "Nubia" is a little more overt, but still pretty funny. Again, as long as they're careful with that idea. It'd also be neat to see a guy like Black Lightning pop up as "White Lightning".

.




whats a nubian?

[Walter West]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nubia

[Sean Walsh]

Nice Watchmen reference in the first panel too, it seems to me Morrisson is poking fun at all the attention the new President seems to be getting from the comics industry.

And yeah, is this slated to be a double sized issue or what?

The preview says 48 pages (which is bigger than all the other issues, and even the 1st issue which was itself also extra sized) - and $3.99, too.

[celticguy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nubia
that was a joke son

[Xero]

The character page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nu%27Bia

[rev sully]

whats a nubian?

Hooper: Always some white boy gotta invoke the holy trilogy. Bust this: Those movies are about how the white man keeps the brother man down, even in a galaxy far, far away. Check this $h!&: You got cracker farm boy Luke Skywalker, Nazi poster boy, blond hair, blue eyes. And then you got Darth Vader, the blackest brother in the galaxy, Nubian god!
Banky Edwards: What's a Nubian?

I got it? A Tracer?

[rev sully]

Well, truthfully, the idea of Nubia as WW is more of a play on actual established pre-Crisis WW history. WW actually did have a black Amazon sister (who was said to have also been created by Hippolyta at the same time as she created Diana) named Nubia who as introduced in the 1970s. They even introduced a Nubia doll to do along with the WW Mego doll that was created to tie into the WW tv show. Nubia was renamed Nu'bia post-Crisis....

THIS IS AWESOME!!! Thanks for the RTFM Work!

[Paul McEnery]

All I got to say is that the next 22 hours are going to be very very long.

I'm of a mind to organize a flash mob to raid the downtown comic store when the rope off the new comics section tonight.

[KYLeo71]

The thing that sucks for me is that since I order books online, I wont get it until next week (of course, I put in my order last Thursday when it appeared on the order list. lol)

[fb1990]

My guess, in this book Ogama/Mandrakk's vampire army shows up on New Earth and the 51 Supermen try to fight it and can't so Luthor uses the Darkseid helmet to make everyone infected by Anti-Life fight the vampire army and defeat them.

[Arksy]

Where's the past-tense post-event hindsight dialouge?
Where's the vague and annoying death of a well established character? (oh wait)
Where's the blatant cop out of a next-event style set up?

Morrison not Bendis.

Booyah.

[fb1990]

Can the first person to read the book here just put up a page count because I live in Australia and I'll get the book later on during the week and just want to know how long it is.
Thanks

[Jeff-E]

whats a nubian?

Man, SHUT THE F%(# UP!

sorry, Kevin Smith moment... couldn't.... help.... myself

[Slyfer]

It's daylight and I haven't read it yet :(

[Slyfer]

WOOOT !!! IT'S HERE, runs off to read

[The Batman]

A really not-so-good review of the issue here (http://handofmessi.blogspot.com/2009/01/final-crisis-7-first-review-recap.html) and a pretty good interview with Morrison here (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/010928-Grant-Final-Crisis.html).

As always, beware of spoilers.

[wes_rk]

wow.....
I have to read it again...
and yeah, I knew it, rock on... last page...

[bjtrdff]

Well that was screwed up.

If there was any doubt that this was editorially changed, there can't be after this issue.

[The Batman]

Sure he might be fibbing, but save for one thing, that's not what Morrison says.

[bjtrdff]

Sure he might be fibbing, but save for one thing, that's not what Morrison says.


Oh I'm well aware, but the whole thing was so disjointed, the solicitations were so off, and...SPOILERS BELOW































Mandraak appears for all of a few panels. Just very bizarre, even for Morrison and DC.

[Bruce Wayne Jr.]

I'm gonna need time to take this all in. The story, the planning, the purpose...

It's baffling.

[Bruce Wayne Jr.]

Nevermind.

[Doug Strange]

A really not-so-good review of the issue here (http://handofmessi.blogspot.com/2009/01/final-crisis-7-first-review-recap.html) and a pretty good interview with Morrison here (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/010928-Grant-Final-Crisis.html).

As always, beware of spoilers.
Wow, that's a poorly-written 'review.' That blogger needs to stick to posting at the newsarama boards.

[Corrina]

The interview is interesting, though I think Morrison doesn't understand when people say 'event fatigue' what they're saying when you (a company) go to the same world-ending situation over and over, then it ceases to much ability to entertain.

And this quote:
Superhero comics should have an ‘event’ in every panel! We all know this instinctively. Who cares ‘how?’ as long as it feels right and looks brilliant ?

--Is along the same lines. The more you see something BIG in every panel, the less impact it has.

[Calybos]

And this quote:
Superhero comics should have an ‘event’ in every panel! We all know this instinctively. Who cares ‘how?’ as long as it feels right and looks brilliant ?


Wow. What moron actually mouthed those words?

ETA: Never mind, I saw in the interview that it was Morrison. Big surprise. "If I string together enough 'cool' moments, that's the same as actually writing a story!"

SO glad I dropped this drek early on....

[Corrina]

This is Morrison' quote in fuller context. I suppose he could be being sarcastic but it doesn't read that way:

Surely part of the fun of comics includes following stories across titles? If you like comics, what’s so awful about buying another one to see what happens next? And if you don’t want to buy it, don’t bother. Do something else. Buy cigarettes or booze or bananas. I don’t know!

Every time I read about the agonizing pains of ‘event fatigue’ or how ‘3-D hurts my head...’ or how something’s ‘incomprehensible’ when most people are ‘comprehending’ it just fine, it’s like visiting a nursing home. ‘Events’ in superhero comic books FATIGUE you? I’m speechless. Admittedly they do tend to be a little more exciting than the instruction leaflets that come with angina pills but... ‘fatigue’?

Superhero comics should have an ‘event’ in every panel! We all know this instinctively. Who cares ‘how?’ as long as it feels right and looks brilliant ?

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I just read FC #7...



My mind is blown. I gonna have to re-read it to soak it all in... But my mind.... Is blown...





No wonder Jones couldn't do it by himself...

[Kid Kamikaze10]

This is Morrison' quote in fuller context. I suppose he could be being sarcastic but it doesn't read that way:

Surely part of the fun of comics includes following stories across titles? If you like comics, what’s so awful about buying another one to see what happens next? And if you don’t want to buy it, don’t bother. Do something else. Buy cigarettes or booze or bananas. I don’t know!

Every time I read about the agonizing pains of ‘event fatigue’ or how ‘3-D hurts my head...’ or how something’s ‘incomprehensible’ when most people are ‘comprehending’ it just fine, it’s like visiting a nursing home. ‘Events’ in superhero comic books FATIGUE you? I’m speechless. Admittedly they do tend to be a little more exciting than the instruction leaflets that come with angina pills but... ‘fatigue’?

Superhero comics should have an ‘event’ in every panel! We all know this instinctively. Who cares ‘how?’ as long as it feels right and looks brilliant ?

I think what he means is that every comic should be as exciting or as fun as an "event" to an individual. Every comic you like to read should be the best part of your Wednesday.

I think it's his own way of saying "if you read what you like, then every comic should be exciting to you".


I know everyone has gotten onto the "bash Morrison" bus, but I think the outrage for this comment is a tad unnecessary. Unless you are talking about financial reasons (but even then, just read the comics you can afford, and check the spoilers for the ones you can't. Heck, buy them later).

[HeckBoy]

I know I'm late to the party, but after Final Crisis #1 left me confused (I hadn't been following much of the greater DC Universe outside of a couple of titles), I decided to wait out the rest of the series. And now that it's over, I want to ask if, in the end, the series is accessible to a reader who only reads the main Final Crisis mini, or will I still need to read all the tie-ins?

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I know I'm late to the party, but after Final Crisis #1 left me confused (I hadn't been following much of the greater DC Universe outside of a couple of titles), I decided to wait out the rest of the series. And now that it's over, I want to ask if, in the end, the series is accessible to a reader who only reads the main Final Crisis mini, or will I still need to read all the tie-ins?

The only tie-in you would be better off reading is Superman Beyond, and MAYBE Last Rites (the RIP/FC tie-in).

I think FC is accessible to readers who only read the main mini, but yeah, read Superman Beyond and the mini.

[4thHorseman]

I think what he means is that every comic should be as exciting or as fun as an "event" to an individual. Every comic you like to read should be the best part of your Wednesday..

This is it pretty much. He could have phrased it better, but he thinks that every book should have something in it that makes the reader want to keep buying it. Something that the reader enjoys and makes the issue worthwhile. So it's not merely what "HAPPENS" in the book, but what the reader takes out of it.

[Samuraixsithlord]

The Issue is narrated by Lois Lane and is told mainly in flashback. half the story deals with Darkseid, the other deals with Mandrakk.

On the Watchtower everyone prepares a rocket ship holding relics and trophies of the League, in hopes that if reality dies a memory of earths superheroes remain

Renee Montoya and the Supermen of the multiverse pick up Obama Superman and Nubia Wonder Woman.

Superman confronts Darkseid in his bunker while holding the body of Batman. Darkseid tells Superman that he's to late and that he turned his back on his people, and that if Superman kills him everyone infected with the ALE will die (as they are all a part of Darkseid now)

Darkseid has the ALE infected attack Superman as he readies the God gun that Batman shot him with to kill Superman. That's when the Flash's shows up with the Black Racer hot on their tails and they run through Darkseid, sparing Superman.

"The terminal moment is here. I come to all, even you" replies the Black Racer to a shocked Darkseid.

Cut to Aquaman back from the dead fighting the Deep Six.

It appears that Dan Turpin regains control of his body.

Cut to the future as Superman and Supergirl are trying to recreate the Miracle Machine that Brainiac 5 showed him as a way of channeling the Life Equation. Silvana and Luther look at the scematics with aw.

Back in the past. Checkmate castle has been breached as Justifiers and Omac's battle it out. on the watchtower we see Earth covered in Metrons circuit. The Japanese heroes fight the Omac's as Lord Eye shuts down.

Looks like Everyone in the castle made it to the Kamandi universe.

Superman stands over Darkseid and explains that Darkseid is dying from the bullet. Wonderwoman and the rest of the furies show up along with Luther who has gained control of the Secret Society of Supervillians. Luther sides with Superman as Frankenstein fights Wonder Woman, Supergirl takes out Gigantrix, and the army of supervillians take out Batwoman and Catwoman. the virus that Wonderwoman has has no effect on Frankenstein as he's dead and the supervillians has been given a vachine.

Back to the present, an unifected Wonder Woman, Supergirl, and Superman watch over the last remaining humans as they are shrunked and placed in cold storage for a journey to another earth.

As Darkseid weakens and dies his hold on everyone slips, allowing Wonder Woman to break free and chain Darkseid's essense with her Lasso.

As Superman completes the Miracle machine, Darkseid's essense shows up, Superman uses a counter-vibration to finish off Darkseid "Darkseid always hated music"

Mandrakk shows up with Vampire-Ultraman, having just fed on the Radiant and the Spectre and leaving them powerless. Superman uses his own solar powered cells to jump start the Miracle Machine.

The Superman arrive and attack Ultraman.

The miracle macine contacts Nix Uotan who summons Captain Carrot and the Zoo Crew. the Supermen, the Green Lanterns, and the Zoo crew all attack Mandrakk. Using the last of their energies Hal Jordan and the rest of the GL stake Mandrakk in the heart.

back on earth everyone is rebuilding, tearing down Darkseid's statues and destroying his justifier helmets. With Darkseid gone the gods of New Genesis are reborn on Earth-51. The Monitors decide that their continueing presense is harmful to the multiverse and decide to end it. Nix and Weeja share a tender moment before the Nil is erased and Nix awakens as his human counterpart.

Years ago as an old man Anthro finds the rocket ship that the JLA launched. He goes into his cave and passes away in his sleep

A figure arives and picks up the utility belt.

The last page shows Batman covered in shadow and painting his symbol on the cave wall

[Bevbos]

Well, that was just plain crazy.

I need to go back and re-read the whole thing. I may feel differently. At this point, I'm not actually confused (except as to the relevance of the OMAC subplot, perhaps)... but I still wonder why double the number of concepts that appeared in "Seven Soldiers" (which I love love love) was crammed into a story with half the number of issues...

I'm left understanding this series but feeling very "So what?" about it. Unless it means the Monitors are gone for good, in which case, three cheers.

Lots of cool moments in this though. I guess I just wish there had been more Darkseid and that whole Mandrakk thing had been done in another series.

Beautiful looking, if nothing else...

[Corrina]

I know everyone has gotten onto the "bash Morrison" bus, but I think the outrage for this comment is a tad unnecessary. Unless you are talking about financial reasons (but even then, just read the comics you can afford, and check the spoilers for the ones you can't. Heck, buy them later).

If I sounded outraged, I'm not. I'm more bemused in the sense that whatever storytelling ideas Morrison has, he's off in a completely other Dimension from ones that I believe will work.. (And I'm talking about his general comments in the interview about stories, rather than FC specific.)

I'm reminded of a quote from an original review of James Joyce's "Portrait of the Artist As a Young Man" in the New York Times. It said, basically, 'this is a book of genius. And I think I'm only one of two or three people who will ever read it all the way through and I'm not sure I understand it."

[HeckBoy]

The only tie-in you would be better off reading is Superman Beyond, and MAYBE Last Rites (the RIP/FC tie-in).

I think FC is accessible to readers who only read the main mini, but yeah, read Superman Beyond and the mini.Ah, noted. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Doug Strange]

The interview is interesting, though I think Morrison doesn't understand when people say 'event fatigue' what they're saying when you (a company) go to the same world-ending situation over and over, then it ceases to much ability to entertain.

And this quote:
Superhero comics should have an ‘event’ in every panel! We all know this instinctively. Who cares ‘how?’ as long as it feels right and looks brilliant ?

--Is along the same lines. The more you see something BIG in every panel, the less impact it has.
Could not disagree more. If I'm reading a super-hero comic book, I do want something amazing in every panel. In Kirby's Fourth World comics, I'm pretty sure he never ended a sentence with a period. Only exclamation points! Usually more than one!!! And every page sings. Every page maintains maximum impact.

But if that's not your thing, that's not your thing...I totally get what he's saying. His point is that "event fatigue" is a misnomer. If you're getting "fatigued" by comics, you're doing something wrong. Don't buy comics you don't like. It really is that simple.

Really the problem is people feeling this NEED to buy string after string of poor-quality "event" books. So they don't "miss" anything. It's a soap opera for them. Just let it go. Don't let it "fatigue" you; it isn't worth it. Take a break from all the horrible trudge and do something else.

I'd read a new issue of Secret Crisis every week if I thought it was great. I don't know why a person wouldn't. Good comics don't fatigue me. Bad comics don't either, because I don't buy them. Basically, you should only accept fatigue in your life when it's from hard work. Or from sex. Not from paper pamphlets with drawings and words that are meant as entertainment.

[Doug Strange]

I think what he means is that every comic should be as exciting or as fun as an "event" to an individual. Every comic you like to read should be the best part of your Wednesday.

I think it's his own way of saying "if you read what you like, then every comic should be exciting to you".
Ooops, should read all the comments before replying! You beat me to it.

[Slyfer]

So I just finished reading Final Crisis #7, I am at a lost for words. Grant Morrison idea of grandiosity is beyond what most contemporary writers would dare try within a comic book medium and is another reason why Grant can get away with it.

His concepts of M-Theory and Time Travel are unparallelled to none by many writers such as Warren Ellis. I most say I was entertained, and enlightened , because for once someone decided to think outside of the box. And that my friends is why I love comics, it shouldn't be rooted in reality but fantasy, science of the unknown and a crazy ride that you the reader will forever remember. This was awesome.

It may require more than one read, but does anyone else loves the fact that issue #1 had the answers all along. That was Awesome!

[Mr.EZ]

A message to Grant Morrison, from his fan Mr.EZ.

Grant, buddy, I think it would be best if you dialed back the drugs a little bit. You're starting to scare me. Seriously, you're Dirk Diggler singing "The Touch" and Didio's John C. Reilly telling you it's all great, but it's really not.

It's utter crap.

[Falconen]

Yeah, well..... not really sure what to say about the overall series, except, my head hurts.
The problem I have with this whole series, is it felt like it took place in a vacuum ans doesnt seem to have any real impact on the DCU.
We got Barry back, and that is good. The New Gods reborn and over seeing the New Earth, that is also good. But I dont see any long lasting reprecussions from the series. Time will tell.

[darkhanamaru]

so i just got done with reading the newsarama interview and this was the quote that stood out for me:

"Just as Marvel Boy in 1999 foreshadowed the storytelling trends of this last decade, Final Crisis is an attempt to predict how ‘channel-zapping’ techniques might develop as the Fifth World of the Information Age of Obama gets underway and begins to define itself in opposition to the previous generation’s ‘rules’. "

I feel like there have been parallel's in the arguments I have been having with people about new technologies like Twitter and the ones the Pro-Morrison camp have been having about Final Crisis on this board. I have been largely staying out of it for my grasp of the universe isn't as total as others here but i do think one of the frustrations people have been having with FC rests on his above point: he is telling the story like a 21 year old samples data, information, and tastes on the internet. That is bound to confuse and piss people off who can't approach a comic book that way but if you do, I think the enjoyment level of FC goes way up.

[TROUBLEZ]

wow. Sounds pointless.

[darkhanamaru]

WOW
Black Superman! Hells yeah! I still have my dog eared copy of "Crisis 4 1/2" and I was hoping that he would show up in this!! I just hope he doesn't get killed--he still has to dig us out from the crap Bush left us under!:tongue: Props to Morison for making Nubia (the sister of Diana made from brown clay in the Silver Age) the Wonder Woman of that Earth! "Music of the spheres." Is that a reference to the Doctor Who proms mini-episode? DC needs to revisit this world when the Crisis is over.


let the obama parallels begin ;)

[DeadXMan]

Steven Hawking's work makes more sense then this series.

[ShaggyB]

is that really how it ends? So will this be the first crisis they just completely ignore?

[SiddFinch68]

Wow. Sounds awesome.

[Retro315]

Jesus, that was a head-trip that's going to take multiple re-reads to decipher fully.

However, just as far as super-spoiler bulletin style notes ...

* The true Crisis was the end of the Monitors omnipotence. They've returned their power as watchers to the Omni-Monitor (although Nix seemingly backdoored his way into giving them lives on their Earths).

* AKA the Rebirth of the Multiverse, the way it's supposed to be.

* I'm not sure, but was Morrison's explanation for how the New Gods relate to the Multiverse that the New Gods are a "hidden defense mechanism" built into the very fabric of the Multiverse?

* Holy last page, Batman!

* The Ray cancels Anti-Life by drawing a huge Metron sign on the face of the Earth!

* Luthor believes Libra was Anti-Life personified.

* Did Hawkman just die? Seriously? Did Hawkgirl just die with him? Seriously? Are they about to be reincarnated and finally fall in love?

* Seems like Checkmate now has the ability to jump universes (that makes how all the Supermen get home make sense, and the idea of the Question asking questions about parallel worlds is an intriguing one). Renee Montoya in the DCU version of "Sliders" would be awesome.

* The Spectre and the Radiant - apparently they're part of the secret defense of Earth-Zero, the keystone to the DCU proper, that secret defense being the big guy himself, Jehovah, Allah, God. And it was Mandrakk screwing with God and preventing him from interfering with Darkseid. Mandrakk wanted that Multiversal tear-open that Darkseid was trying to cause.

My less "WOW" comments ...

Disjointed storytelling ... Grant just got the world-record for disjointed storytelling.

You call that "Aquaman vs. the Deep Six"? Dude rides in on Sea-Storm and kills some serpents ... it looks like Ocean Master is on his side ... don't get me wrong, I'm glad to have Arthur mo-friggin' Curry back in the saddle ... but that's weak Aquamanning. (Although my writey sense can already think of ten ways to explain how Darkseid's fall and primal gods of Earth-Zero being free from Darkseid's oppression could get Aquaman's body and soul back in fighting form).

If people didn't read Superman Beyond they're so screwed.

No wait ... because there's people who definitely read Beyond and didn't get it.

At any rate, this calls for a lot more thinking and concise reviewing and I can't handle it right now.

All I can say is that last page, despite the fact that I like what Morrison is doing, even in all its disjointed, wobbly glory, that last page is what people are going to remember. And for good reason.

Looks like Earth-51 is officially "Earth KIRBY".

(Oh, and the Flash's plan worked fantastically. Way to go Barry and Wally ... EVEN YOU DARKSEID)

EDIT: OH, and who wants to call odds on Renee Montoya of all people being the one who finds Batman, lost in the last place anybody would look ... Anthro-Earth?

Did anyone ever think that maybe Grant Morrison's proposed Multiverse series, and his return to the character of Batman, are one and the same?

[DeadXMan]

Wow. Sounds awesome.

yes, but it reads differently.

[SiddFinch68]

yes, but it reads differently.

Nope. Reads awesome, too:)

[mdg1]

I know I'm late to the party, but after Final Crisis #1 left me confused (I hadn't been following much of the greater DC Universe outside of a couple of titles), I decided to wait out the rest of the series. And now that it's over, I want to ask if, in the end, the series is accessible to a reader who only reads the main Final Crisis mini, or will I still need to read all the tie-ins?

I'd say it's equally incomprehensible either way. :biggrin:

[Samuraixsithlord]

I like how Morrison's stuff makes you think. I'm sorry i don't just read comics to see superheroes fight and to see chicks with big boobs.

The greatest scene in the whole book was when Barry and Wally brought the Black Racer to Darkseid. you really see just how feared BR really is when even mighty Darkseid afraid

[mdg1]

One tidbit I haven't seen mentioned. We see Darkseid fire the bullet (from the same gun that Batman used) that went back in time to kill Orion.

[abmccray]

Yeah, on a second read, it's not nearly as confusing as my first, more cursory read. Some of the descriptions are off (the utility belt is laid upon the now dead body by a now, unseen figure, for instance), and it reads a lot better than the description. Also, there's no mention of everyone Darkseid took over firing Omega Beams at the Flashes/the whole Black Racer catch-up segment, or that Darkseid, in effect, committed suicide by wildly firing the bullet at the Flashes as they broke light/time.

[XPac]

There sounds like a lot of interesting stuff going down... but it also sounds a bit disjointed and all over the place.

Hoperfully it'll read a bit more coherently than it sounds in a review.

For a variety of reasons, a lot of my enthusiasm for this series has really been blunted even though I did enjoy it, and Morrison in general. I'm hoping the last issue will spark up a bit more juice for the series.

[Bruce Wayne Jr.]

Good riddance, Monitors. I haven't given a damn since their race was introduced and stretched thin in Countdown, and Final Crisis didn't do anything to change that.

[Duy]

I never imagined any series, much less a final issue, going at such a fast pace could be so incredibly boring.

[DeadXMan]

I never thought Morrison could top the cluster @&*! he did on New X-men. But once agian, he has proven me wrong.

FC: DC's Epic fail.

[Mat001]

Could not disagree more. If I'm reading a super-hero comic book, I do want something amazing in every panel. In Kirby's Fourth World comics, I'm pretty sure he never ended a sentence with a period. Only exclamation points! Usually more than one!!! And every page sings. Every page maintains maximum impact.

But if that's not your thing, that's not your thing...I totally get what he's saying. His point is that "event fatigue" is a misnomer. If you're getting "fatigued" by comics, you're doing something wrong. Don't buy comics you don't like. It really is that simple.

Really the problem is people feeling this NEED to buy string after string of poor-quality "event" books. So they don't "miss" anything. It's a soap opera for them. Just let it go. Don't let it "fatigue" you; it isn't worth it. Take a break from all the horrible trudge and do something else.

I'd read a new issue of Secret Crisis every week if I thought it was great. I don't know why a person wouldn't. Good comics don't fatigue me. Bad comics don't either, because I don't buy them. Basically, you should only accept fatigue in your life when it's from hard work. Or from sex. Not from paper pamphlets with drawings and words that are meant as entertainment.

I think what he means is that every comic should be as exciting or as fun as an "event" to an individual. Every comic you like to read should be the best part of your Wednesday.

I think it's his own way of saying "if you read what you like, then every comic should be exciting to you".

I agree with that as well. Reading a comic is an event unto itself. It shouldn't matter if there is another big major crossover.

[Samuraixsithlord]

There is no explenation to why Wonder Woman was free from Darkseid's control, i just assume it was from Darkseid dying.

I also didn't see the Pax Dei and Zaurial until my second read through. But Morrison did create Zaurial and that whole storyline if i'm correct.

plus Captain Carrot showed up.

[DeadXMan]

and the art: Blah

vanella dosen't even cover it.

wlook at the page of Supe holding Bat's corpse (which was coped out at the end:rolleyes: )

we should be seeing Pain, rage and a need for vengence.

his eyes should be glowing red holding back a full power heat vision.


we should seen this in comics


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQUZDbNaXKE

[ThunderWolf!!!]

Did anyone said worst...comic book...ever.... yet?

[JDanknich]

Only Grant Morrison could somehow work Captain Carrot into Final Crisis.

[DeadXMan]

wosre...... event........ ever.

I urge the Kirby family to get the rights of Jack's creations back.
for nearly two years Dc have pissed on them.

:frown:

[Buried Alien]

Few are happier than I am that FINAL CRISIS brought Barry Allen back to the DCU, but seeing the Flashes' role in the resolution of the FC storyline, I have to wonder: what was so different about this crisis (as opposed to all the previous times the DCU was threatened Post-COIE) that the universe needed to revive Barry to save it? What was so extraordinary about the feat of leading the Black Racer to Darkseid that the other speedsters couldn't have accomplished? If Barry returned at this point in time because he, specifically, was needed, then his contribution should have involved some skill/ability of Barry's that the other speedsters lack. That doesn't seem to have been the case at all.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Doug Strange]

The story required Barry for these particular skills: 1) being dead and 2) having an editor want to resurrect him for no good reason.

[DeadXMan]

he return dose not makes sense.
and some how the speed force reverses Darkseid effects, then why not use the other flashes, and liberty bell as well.

[Retro315]

I like how Morrison's stuff makes you think. I'm sorry i don't just read comics to see superheroes fight and to see chicks with big boobs.


Well ... not that superheroes fighting or big boobs ever hurt ...

As for being the worst comic book event ever ...

IT'S NOT AN EVENT!

Blackest Night ... now that's an event.

Turns out all Final Crisis ever was, was the End of the Monitors, rebirth of the Multiverse (seemingly infinite) ... a little bit of an obligatory status quo shake-up, and a way for Morrison to show where all the diverging "GODS" of the DCU, the Earth religion gods, the New Gods, and the Monitors are all related, and where they're all not related, and basically to order the DC Multiverse into something that other writers can reference.

Doug Mahnke's art was a little vanilla (The Aquaman panel comes to mind) especially compared to his two Superman Beyond issues, but there were plenty of bold, amazing scenes (with 36 pages, I guess he couldn't A-Game every single panel and page).

Also, Zauriel, nice.

Anyone want to start guessing what Earths these various Supermen are from? Captain Marvel, Carrot, Red Son Supes, Overman ... all known. But what Earth is Super-Barack from? Super-Afro? Super-Dwarf?

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Few are happier than I am that FINAL CRISIS brought Barry Allen back to the DCU, but seeing the Flashes' role in the resolution of the FC storyline, I have to wonder: what was so different about this crisis (as opposed to all the previous times the DCU was threatened Post-COIE) that the universe needed to revive Barry to save it? What was so extraordinary about the feat of leading the Black Racer to Darkseid that the other speedsters couldn't have accomplished? If Barry returned at this point in time because he, specifically, was needed, then his contribution should have involved some skill/ability of Barry's that the other speedsters lack. That doesn't seem to have been the case at all.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

He was also smart enough to know how to take out Darkseid.

And, the Dark Racer was coming after him anyway. At least he made his bad situation useful.

[stillanerd]

So, let me see if I got this right...

Earth-0 is restored and back to normal..sort of.
Earth-51 has become a hodgepodge of Jack Kirby's ideas, including Kamandi and the New Gods.
Batman is stuck in the past with a dead Anthro, although who knows which Earth's past it is?
The Monitors are gone.
The Japanesse Heroes are the 5th World Forever People.
Darkseid is dead.
Wonder Woman somehow got better.
Aquaman is back from the dead and so is Barry Allen, but who knows what happened to Hawkman and Hawkgirl.

And everyone is saying "What the hell was the point of all that?" and/or "What the F***?!"

[big al]

plus Captain Carrot showed up.

I had to read that a few times in the spoilers.....it just blew my mind

[Radical_dreamer]

The thing with Morrison's stories is that part of you feel dumb if you don't get them because of his history. So half immediately brand them as "brilliance" (which, on all account, this was NOT) and the other, pissed off at being confused immediately attacks for having written BS (which this was not).

Final review on Final Crisis: 4/10.

It really wasn't that good. Even if you got everything, which through a lot of wiki'ing I think I got (though I'm fully aware that most of it eluded me as I read).

A story, a GOOD story, needs more than just high concepts and great ideas.

[DeadXMan]

So, let me see if I got this right...

Earth-0 is restored and back to normal..sort of.
Earth-51 has become a hodgepodge of Jack Kirby's ideas, including Kamandi and the New Gods.
Batman is stuck in the past with a dead Anthro, although who knows which Earth's past it is?
The Monitors are gone.
The Japanesse Heroes are the 5th World Forever People.
Darkseid is dead.
Wonder Woman somehow got better.
Aquaman is back from the dead and so is Barry Allen, but who knows what happened to Hawkman and Hawkgirl.
And everyone is saying "What the hell was the point of all that?" and/or "What the F***?!"
I thought it was the SoA Aquaman that they foced down our throughts, not the real one.

if so how did he come back and not all tenticlly?

[Hawkman]

* Did Hawkman just die? Seriously? Did Hawkgirl just die with him? Seriously? Are they about to be reincarnated and finally fall in love?
This is the second time I've read something along these lines, and without being able to read the issue myself until this evening, I'd greatly appreciate some confirmation. Is New Earth (Earth-0 now?) restored to a state where they would both be alive again at the end, or is their death presented in a pretty finite manner?

[Slyfer]

The correct Reading Order interesting....

FINAL CRISIS # 1- 3
SUPERMAN BEYOND # 1- 2
SUBMIT
FINAL CRISIS # 4 – 5
BATMAN #682 – 683
FINAL CRISIS # 6 – 7

[Arksy]

Words can not describe just how good this series is. I'm lost. Morrison is mad, but there is a very definite method to his madness and i just can't help think that despite coming into this series being very anti-morrison (for what he did to the x-men, still really dislike) i've grown to be able to appreciate his work and this, this is just something else.

I have never ever read a series like this, i'd very much like to do it again, however. This was just sublime.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

The thing with Morrison's stories is that part of you feel dumb if you don't get them because of his history. So half immediately brand them as "brilliance" (which, on all account, this was NOT) and the other, pissed off at being confused immediately attacks for having written BS (which this was not).

Remember, don't delude yourself into thinking your opinion is fact. I think it was brilliant, but that's just my opinion, for instance.



Final review on Final Crisis: 4/10.

It really wasn't that good. Even if you got everything, which through a lot of wiki'ing I think I got (though I'm fully aware that most of it eluded me as I read).

A story, a GOOD story, needs more than just high concepts and great ideas.

I saw a great story, with more than just high concepts and great ideas. Again, my opinion.

[Slyfer]

I notice something, when an Event requires you to think , or even think outside of the box . It makes no sense, yet when it's a throw fist and shoot powerbeams with no substance it's a win. Screw that I liked Final Crisis because it kept me guessing and wondering from beginning to end.

[Retro315]

This is the second time I've read something along these lines, and without being able to read the issue myself until this evening, I'd greatly appreciate some confirmation. Is New Earth (Earth-0 now?) restored to a state where they would both be alive again at the end, or is their death presented in a pretty finite manner?

In one of the "brought in late, and hardly explained" moments, Lord Eye starts going crazy, and is keeping Checkmate's tunnel open, which begins slicing apart both ends of the portal/wormhole/what-have-you. It would spell the end of both Earth-0 (New Earth), and apparently, Earth-51 (Kamandi).

So Hawkman goes in mace ready, and Hawkgirl gives a "you're not going in there without me", and they go in and smash Lord Eye to smithereens. They seem to be incinerated in the resulting super-brain-computer annihilation.

And later when the narrator reflects on those lost, we get a snapshot of Batman's cowl, Martian Manhunter's pyramid tomb on Mars, and two feathers.

Of course ... Batman isn't "truly" dead, since he's damned to reliving and redying. And the Hawks? The Hawks are notorious for reincarnation.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I notice something, when an Event requires you to think , or even think outside of the box . It makes no sense, yet when it's a throw fist and shoot powerbeams with no substance it's a win. Screw that I liked Final Crisis because it kept me guessing and wondering from beginning to end.

I noticed you're caught in the minority point of view over at MyXSS...

Don't worry about the haters. You like what you like, period.

[stillanerd]

I thought it was the SoA Aquaman that they foced down our throughts, not the real one.

if so how did he come back and not all tenticlly?

See, I thought it was the original Aquaman since there's that whole thing about the prophecy that says he'll return to save his people in their hour of greatest need. But who the hell knows. I mean if nobody has a basic understanding of what they just read, how is that supposed to be good writing?

EDIT: Oh well, at least Batman is still alive (like we didn't know THAT was going to happen).

[drupgyu]

I thought this was a good issue...

SPOILERS












I think Hawkman and Hawkgirl are both dead but then they reincarnate often enough...

Nice confirmation that Bats is alive

Looks like to me the multiverse is preserved as is with more possibilities of universal team ups and that the multiverse is the same as it was post-52

Just 'cause the black superman was president doesn't mean he's Obama; they look nothing alike... Its a black president as a nod to Obama maybe....

Like all Morrison stuff, it makes sense only after reading it ALL in one sitting.

[gunz]

i thought the whole series was really, REALLY good. It does make you think and it does require to reread alot, but in the end it is good. And, who said an event has to change everything. This was a true crisis, and the heroes won. I can see how people wouldn't like it, because you did have to read the tie ins (if you didn't read superman beyond, it really dosen't make sense). And you do have to go and look stuff up. People will say you can enjoy final crisis as a stand alone, but that isn't true. I had to look stuff up all over the pplace to truley get what was going on. Now I'm not sayingthat is a bad thing, I like doing stufffl ike that, so I still enjoyed it, but I can see where other people are coming from.

My only complaints are the aquaman scene (really wasn't nessacary and seemed shoe horned in there and I really wanted him to come back as a zombie during THE Blackest Night:wink: ) and how did wonder woman break free of controll. That part could have been given some more time.

All in all, a good series that left ME satisfied. 8/10

Bring on The Blackest Night

[gunz]

In one of the "brought in late, and hardly explained" moments, Lord Eye starts going crazy, and is keeping Checkmate's tunnel open, which begins slicing apart both ends of the portal/wormhole/what-have-you. It would spell the end of both Earth-0 (New Earth), and apparently, Earth-51 (Kamandi).

So Hawkman goes in mace ready, and Hawkgirl gives a "you're not going in there without me", and they go in and smash Lord Eye to smithereens. They seem to be incinerated in the resulting super-brain-computer annihilation.

And later when the narrator reflects on those lost, we get a snapshot of Batman's cowl, Martian Manhunter's pyramid tomb on Mars, and two feathers.

Of course ... Batman isn't "truly" dead, since he's damned to reliving and redying. And the Hawks? The Hawks are notorious for reincarnation.

Thanks for that, I really forgot that even happened

[Sharcque]

It may require more than one read, but does anyone else loves the fact that issue #1 had the answers all along. That was Awesome!


It did? How so.... (not challenging your statement, I'm just one of the people that had hell reading each issue & remembering what I just read).

[Retro315]

Just a side note here.

I'm checking out my "Multiverse Checklist" here, and what do I see?

Grant Morrison used Rox Ogama, Monitor of Earth-31 as the schemer, the plotter, the pathetic minion of Mandrakk. If Mandrakk is the representation of "darkness like a vampire, sucking all the life out of DC Comics ... then prepare for a laugh.

Because his biggest minion, the pathetic, mewling Rox Ogama who schemed and then was revealed as vermin in Superman Beyond # 2 ... is the Monitor of the "Frank Miller Miller-Verse".

ZAP.

[DeadXMan]

See, I thought it was the original Aquaman since there's that whole thing about the prophecy that says he'll return to save his people in their hour of greatest need. But who the hell knows. I mean if nobody has a basic understanding of what they just read, how is that supposed to be good writing?

EDIT: Oh well, at least Batman is still alive (like we didn't know THAT was going to happen).

once again DC has shown they have no balls.

Cap's been dead for nearly two years
Bat was barley dead for two weeks.:rolleyes:

[mdg1]

Yeah, on a second read, it's not nearly as confusing as my first, more cursory read. Some of the descriptions are off (the utility belt is laid upon the now dead body by a now, unseen figure, for instance), and it reads a lot better than the description. Also, there's no mention of everyone Darkseid took over firing Omega Beams at the Flashes/the whole Black Racer catch-up segment, or that Darkseid, in effect, committed suicide by wildly firing the bullet at the Flashes as they broke light/time.

Not wildly. He was aiming at Orion, 6 issues ago.

[Arksy]

So many absolutely beautiful moments in this single book.

- Nix Uotan heralding the forces for order in order to defeat Mandrakk.
- Nix Uotan saying farewell to his lover only to be born-again as a mortal
- Nix Uotan taking his place as the judge of all evil and overcoming his worries.
- The man inscribing the bat symbol into the cave whose shadowy visage is of the batman. Wow.
- Page 15 or 16 with the panels changing dimension from left to right with Kiego running between them, that was truly inspired.
- Superman gaining one ultimate wish from a god machine and wishing for a happy ending

[Raker616]

Man this think was even a bigger clusterf*** than even I thought it was going to be, Morrison needs to lay off the drugs and try writting comics clean and sober. I'm so glad that this thing is finally over and we can all move on with the rest of the DCU and place bets on how long it's going to take for this to be retconned out of existance by another writer. FC was a complete and total failure and following the debacle that was Batman RIP, Morrisonites are going to have to work overtime to try and convince people of Grants supposed greatness.

[Hawkman]

In one of the "brought in late, and hardly explained" moments, Lord Eye starts going crazy, and is keeping Checkmate's tunnel open, which begins slicing apart both ends of the portal/wormhole/what-have-you. It would spell the end of both Earth-0 (New Earth), and apparently, Earth-51 (Kamandi).

So Hawkman goes in mace ready, and Hawkgirl gives a "you're not going in there without me", and they go in and smash Lord Eye to smithereens. They seem to be incinerated in the resulting super-brain-computer annihilation.

And later when the narrator reflects on those lost, we get a snapshot of Batman's cowl, Martian Manhunter's pyramid tomb on Mars, and two feathers.

Of course ... Batman isn't "truly" dead, since he's damned to reliving and redying. And the Hawks? The Hawks are notorious for reincarnation.
Thanks for the more in-depth description. Doesn't sound too promising, unfortunately. At least he goes down swinging, I guess. I wonder how this will be dealt with in JSA and JLA, though. Perhaps that's why Hawkman's appearing in the latter's current story arc, to rekindle his relationship with Kendra, thus explaining their interactions here?

Ah, whatever. Now I'm depressed...

[drupgyu]

worste...... event........ ever.

:frown:

You obviously don' read much Marvel...

World War Hulk? Nothing happened. You think Hulk is going to kick @$$ and take names...Not so much... And he's dumb again with a red counterpart.

Civil War? Cap surrendered?!? Whatever... Better than all of the other bad Marvel events though.

House of M ? Good result, bad way of getting there. Tie ins not really good either.

Secret Invasion? Great until the ending which was really poor. You mean to say after all these years of planning and swapping folks out they lost in an hour when real Thor shows up? The whole event aside from flashbacks takes place in what, 2 days?!! Come on! Then Dark Reign is the result? A supposed-to-be-dead Norman Osborn running the show?! Does anyone over there have any sense of continuity? I mean I know he's not dead now but running everything?!

So far, its better to talk about the 'good' events as there are very few; Sinestro Corps War, Annihilation and Annihilation Conquest. All the rest, not so much.

I liked Final Crisis although telling a story in flashback (Secret Invasion too) is always a little lazy to me.

[Sharcque]

So many absolutely beautiful moments in this single book.

- Nix Uotan heralding the forces for order in order to defeat Mandrakk.
- Nix Uotan saying farewell to his lover only to be born-again as a mortal
- Nix Uotan taking his place as the judge of all evil and overcoming his worries.
- The man inscribing the bat symbol into the cave whose shadowy visage is of the batman. Wow.
- Page 15 or 16 with the panels changing dimension from left to right with Kiego running between them, that was truly inspired.
- Superman gaining one ultimate wish from a god machine and wishing for a happy ending


huh....interesting....

One of the main things that you loved, was where I had huge probs with the story.

Nix Uotan. Huge role in this issue. But seriously, who the F is Nix Uotan?!?!?! I don't care about him AT ALL. Not many comic readers even know that name from Adam!

[Slyfer]

I noticed you're caught in the minority point of view over at MyXSS...

Don't worry about the haters. You like what you like, period.

LOL I see. :cool:

[Slyfer]

So many absolutely beautiful moments in this single book.


- Page 15 or 16 with the panels changing dimension from left to right with Kiego running between them, that was truly inspired.


I take it you haven't read WE3 yet, that's where Doug got that idea from :smile:

[Sean Walsh]

Doug Mahnke's art was a little vanilla (The Aquaman panel comes to mind) especially compared to his two Superman Beyond issues, but there were plenty of bold, amazing scenes (with 36 pages, I guess he couldn't A-Game every single panel and page).

Can't really blame him. He was rushed in to do #7 rather late in the game, while he was always working hard on BEYOND.

I woulda LOVED to have seen #1-7 by Mahnke, though. Even his B-game (I consider this ish A-/B+) is better than many people's A-games.

[DeadXMan]

Marvel is Spielberg, while DC is Kafka with their ideas, but, Boll with their execution.

[Sean Walsh]

........ah, Scott Free. THERE YOU ARE. :smile:

[PastePotPete]

I love Morrison. I defend his work from the critics. I've loved juuust about everything he's done. I loved RIP and the first three or four issues of this series...

This last issue is near-indecipherable. What a cop-out. What a huge disappointment. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I'm kind of furious right now.

[Arksy]

huh....interesting....

One of the main things that you loved, was where I had huge probs with the story.

Nix Uotan. Huge role in this issue. But seriously, who the F is Nix Uotan?!?!?! I don't care about him AT ALL. Not many comic readers even know that name from Adam!

His story is pretty well contained within Final Crisis, i haven't read much DC at all......Go back and read FC:1,2 and 5.

Nix Uotan is Mandrakk (Dax Novu's) son. He is the prodigy to the best of them. He is exiled for the destruction of earth-52 to our earth in which he goes about living his life, searching for higher meaning and observing weird effects going on in the world.

He moves along and eventually ends up in prison where they take all the people who have successfully resisted the ALE, where Metron, a guy who's neither truly good or evil but more of a casual observer nudges Nix into uncovering his true destiny.

Once he summons his destiny he takes his place as the judge of all evil and heralds the forces of light to defeat the darkness that is Mandrakk.

In my humble oppinion, WIN!

P.S: I got all this just from FC1-6 and SB:1-2 i haven't read anything else in the greater DCU (apart from batman) i swear!

[Calybos]

A story, a GOOD story, needs more than just high concepts and great ideas.

See, now THAT needs to be tattooed in fluorescent ink on the forehead of every writer in existence. In reverse, so they can read it while they admire themselves in the mirror every morning.

Still, I applaud the appearance of Captain Carrot and the Zoo Crew. Anything that adds to the "fun" value is good.

[Tabernac]

Marvel is Spielberg, while DC is Kafka with their ideas, but, Boll with their execution.

Uh huh, nice fanboyism.

Anyways I liked how it ended, wasn't the best ending but it dealt with stuff that I wanted to be dealt with. I am very excited to see what is next and where DC is going to go from here, almost as excited as I am to see Blackest Night.

[Paul McEnery]

If I sounded outraged, I'm not. I'm more bemused in the sense that whatever storytelling ideas Morrison has, he's off in a completely other Dimension from ones that I believe will work.. (And I'm talking about his general comments in the interview about stories, rather than FC specific.)

I'm reminded of a quote from an original review of James Joyce's "Portrait of the Artist As a Young Man" in the New York Times. It said, basically, 'this is a book of genius. And I think I'm only one of two or three people who will ever read it all the way through and I'm not sure I understand it."

Sounds more like Finnegans Wake. If it was a review of Portrait, the reviewer had a very low view of people's intelligence.

[Retro315]

Marvel is Spielberg, while DC is Kafka with their ideas, but, Boll with their execution.

Spielberg post-Indy IV ... doesn't have the same ring it used to have. And didn't he phone-in Jurassic Park III by having his "protege" Joe Johnston direct it? Must consume a lot of time counting hundred dollar bills ...

I'm proud of DC for being willing to take risks with stories, and I appreciate Final Crisis for what Morrison was trying to say about stories, and universes which exist within stories. Very meta.

And I appreciate that he covertly made a point of using the Monitor representing Frank Miller as the disciple of ultimate comic-book ruination. Hilarious, and timely, considering that DC is trying to break out of the darkness that began with The Dark Knight Returns. Leave it to Grant to do that by killing Batman (sort of) and having Superman shine the light. As vague and abstract as the notions were.

Now ... that being said ...

Final Crisis should've been put out there more like Identity Crisis. Something small, which future writers could reference later, and not marketed as the "EVENT" of the year. Especially since we all know we're getting an even bigger, more "DCU Proper" event this summer that is almost guaranteed to critically and sales-wise blow Final Crisis to smithereens.

That's not to say Blackest Night won't have its flaws as well (the zillions of tie-ins are already starting to get old, but at least we only really have to have the Green Lantern, Green Lantern Corps, and main "Johns-approved" pieces).

But yeah, Final Crisis could've done with some more subtle marketing. That way, Grant and whatever artist would've had more time, they wouldn't have had to worry about deadlines, rushing, or anything, and it could've taken the same high ideas and been a better story.

If it was a HUGE deal stowed with care inside a smaller, less overt publicity stint, it would've served it better.

I still love it, but most of what happens in FC resets and gets resolved, with the only real ramifications being a dead Manhunter, a few missing heroes, and a new Multiversal order.

And since Morrison himself is the writer of one of those missing heroes, and will no doubt be the guy to start exploring the new order of the Multiverse ... it would've just been a miniseries to play with his ideas and then build his own series off of, instead of being what everyone is calling a DCU-wide clusterf**k.

Remember DC Management ...

Geoff Johns Event - SUMMER BLOCKBUSTER
Grant Morrison Event - WINTER INDY THRILLER

[Retro315]

Uh huh, nice fanboyism.

Anyways I liked how it ended, wasn't the best ending but it dealt with stuff that I wanted to be dealt with. I am very excited to see what is next and where DC is going to go from here, almost as excited as I am to see Blackest Night.

Really now, throwing the term fanboy around in a Comic Book Message Board?

Little ironic, isn't it?

[jv2k]

Marvel is Spielberg, while DC is Kafka with their ideas, but, Boll with their execution.

lol.

You are trying way too hard.

[worstblogever]

The title of this series could just have easily been, "Grant Morrison Trips Balls Through the DC Universe."

I trusted it would be coherent, in the end... but not really. I felt like as each issue went on, I needed to up my dosage to follow the story. Short of a few brilliant flashes, like Hal Jordan's big hero moment in #6, this whole thing is very disappointing to me.

This is the first Morrison story I haven't liked, to my recollection. And what a time for it to happen.

[Thok]

I haven't decided whether I like this issue or not. It definitely requires two read-throughs at a minimum to get stuff.

I do like the idea that Superman can wish for a happy ending in the DCU, and it will happen with glorious splash pages.

[gregoreite]

So I just finished reading Final Crisis #7, I am at a lost for words. Grant Morrison idea of grandiosity is beyond what most contemporary writers would dare try within a comic book medium and is another reason why Grant can get away with it.

His concepts of M-Theory and Time Travel are unparallelled to none by many writers such as Warren Ellis. I most say I was entertained, and enlightened , because for once someone decided to think outside of the box. And that my friends is why I love comics, it shouldn't be rooted in reality but fantasy, science of the unknown and a crazy ride that you the reader will forever remember. This was awesome.

It may require more than one read, but does anyone else loves the fact that issue #1 had the answers all along. That was Awesome!

Amen! I thank Grant Morrison and everyone at DC who was involved in making Final Crisis. It's truly a masterpiece comic that has the potential to revolutionize the way we read, think about, and even make comic books in the future! This is such an inspirational read that sparks creativity, and I really appreciate the creators for working so hard on it, enabling me to read this. The writing was great! The art was fantastic! The story was unforgettable, baffling, wacky, thought-provoking, pioneering, and even sometimes, beyond a story, a new form of expression in comics! It wasn't just another comic where the problem was solved by fists...it was the ink versus the blank page, presented in a way we have rarely, if ever, seen before. Final Crisis really has inspired me in the creativity department, and enlightened me to see a few things:

First, comics don't have to be chained to the usual formulas that are demanded, particularly the TV-Hollywood-movie formula. Since those mediums have their formulas down to a science, we should look at ways to let the comics "breathe" and have new ways of expression! Grant Morrison talked about this in his Exit interview with Newsarama, having comics conducted like songs, or like operas, or like poetry! What exciting, wonderful ideas, in my opinion. I realize there's many fans out there who have the first instinct to say, "a comic book written like a song? That would suck!" Look, I just don't care about that type of thinking anymore. That same thinking said to the pioneers of jazz, rock, rap, and the next future music type, "you want to make music THAT way? That would suck!" The same thinking said to the pioneers of the comic book industry, "you want to make books with pictures AND words, joined in sequential order?! I don't get it! That makes my brain hurt! That'll suck!" Everyone has their own opinion, but if all your opinion amounts to in the end is that something "sucks," chances are, time and talent will prove you wrong.

Second, the potential of "comic continuity." In Final Crisis, Morrison and the others really used continuity in a way we're not used to seeing it! With Batman, he used the continuity as Bruce's memories, as a weapon against the Lump and Darkseid! With Superman, it was the story of Superman that placed him "beyond" the limits of the comic book page, in order to confront and defeat Mandrakk. Comic book continuity can be used for more than just helping stories and situations make sense; it can be a weapon or a tool to be used within the story itself!

Third and finally, Final Crisis helped me to see the real state of Internet comic book forums, and whether they really are worth participating in. I want to say that they are, but I've realized for me personally, they are not. When writers and artists and all the staff involved invest so much of their time, so much of themselves into a project for "fans" who resort to personal attacks against them when their personal standards for comics aren't met, it brings down the comic book experience for me. This is not a universal truth, it's just MY experience. I'll never forget when J.G. Jones publicly announced he wouldn't be able to continue working on Final Crisis, and said he felt terrible about it. While there were many people who encouraged and defended him, there were also a lot of people who attacked him personally and critically, who had no right to do so. And don't even get me started on the personal attacks on Grant Morrison, or Dan Didio. I come on to comic book forums to DISCUSS comics, not complain about the people making them. I would ask that before you post negative comments, please take into account that you are potentially lessening someone else's positive experience of a comic. You do have the right to free speech, but what's the right really worth, when you ruin someone else's experience?

I hope everyone who enjoyed Final Crisis along with me enjoyed it as much as I did, and see the potential for it to change comics to make them even better than they are now! I realize that people who disagrees with me will quote me and rip my arguments to shreds, which you can go ahead and do, I'm sure you're right. I appreciate the people, the time, the care, and the work that went into producing Final Crisis, and I can only hope more fans and creators embrace this new approach to reading, making, and thinking about comics.

[Corrina]

Sounds more like Finnegans Wake. If it was a review of Portrait, the reviewer had a very low view of people's intelligence.

It was a review when the book originally came out, in the early 20th century, so that perhaps had something to do with it, especially given that the genre of 'literary fiction' didn't really exist as a target.

[cheshire42]

Golly, there's just nobody at Marvel who blows their own horn and promises mind-blowing event comics. Nothing but humble pie for dessert at the House of Ideas, yessiree.

What's worse? Seven issues of trippin' balls or six issues of meandering, foot-dragging dialogue sandwiched between two issues of fight-scenes? :biggrin:

Trippin' Balls With The Mad Scotsman for the win, please.

[Robodojo]

Thanks for the more in-depth description. Doesn't sound too promising, unfortunately. At least he goes down swinging, I guess. I wonder how this will be dealt with in JSA and JLA, though. Perhaps that's why Hawkman's appearing in the latter's current story arc, to rekindle his relationship with Kendra, thus explaining their interactions here?

Ah, whatever. Now I'm depressed...Hawkman is a huge favorite of mine, so I share your concern. I've actually expected DC to kill him off for awhile now, considering editorial there seems to think the character is completely broken due to his convoluted past (I thought he was fixed after the "Return of Hawkman" arc in JSA, but they don't seem to agree).

However, the silver lining to all this is that they aced Hawkgirl, too. This seems to suggest that DC has plans for the both of them, since I doubt they would permanently kill off both Hawk characters in one fell swoop, especially when one of them starred in a high-profile cartoon not long ago. My thinking is that the Hawks will have something going on spinning out of FC, probably just down the road.

And let's face it, reincarnation is in their DNA, so it's just a matter of time before they're back.

[Sean Walsh]

Regarding Hawkman & Hawkgirl (and apologies if this was noted earlier).....

Toward the end, on the "aftermath of Darkseid's death" page, there are 3 small panels. Around the space the narration says "we've lost friends..."

1 panel is Batman's cowl. We know about him.

1 panel is 2 feathers, which I take it is signifying the Hawks' death...

....and 1 panel is a pyramid, which I gather is signifying their reincarnation. :wink:

[the4thpip]

Could not disagree more. If I'm reading a super-hero comic book, I do want something amazing in every panel. In Kirby's Fourth World comics, I'm pretty sure he never ended a sentence with a period. Only exclamation points! Usually more than one!!! And every page sings. Every page maintains maximum impact.



And I love me some Kirby's Fourth World. I just re-read the Olsen trades.

But you know what? It's like Dixieland Jazz. It only works as a look at history. Nobody lives it anymore. Only nerds still play Dixieland, and only nerds (like Erik Larsen) try to do Kirby-stlye comics in the 21st century.

With Final Crisis, one of the greatest comic book writers of the 90s turned into a middle-aged nerd trying to make his readers like comics from his own personal "golden age" of comics when he was 14.

And that shouldn't be DC, that's Image comics.

[DarKye]

....and 1 panel is a pyramid, which I gather is signifying their reincarnation. :wink:

I thought that was the pyramid on Mars where J'onn was buried. But your idea is pretty good too.

In other news, this event was freaking awesome. I wish we could see more of Nix Uotan in the future, but I guess he's too much of a walking Deus Ex Machina.

[Paul McEnery]

It was a review when the book originally came out, in the early 20th century, so that perhaps had something to do with it, especially given that the genre of 'literary fiction' didn't really exist as a target.

Actually, I believe I remember that being a review of Finnegans Wake.

Though it also sounds like what Feynman said about quantum physics.

But I'd be extremely surprised if it were a review of Portrait, which is very very straightforward.

[Xero]

Marvel is Spielberg, while DC is Kafka with their ideas, but, Boll with their execution.

QFT

10char

[worstblogever]

You know, I heard a rumor that once there was a script for a Marx Brothers film, written by Salvatore Dali. Problem was, it was so damned abstract, as a literary work, it was virtually impossible to comprehend on any conceptual level.

That's what this series reminded me of, but with DC characters.

In some ways, I guess if you want to throw around movie director comparisons, Grant Morrison is the equivalent of David Lynch.

If you don't believe me, behold Lynch's "Rabbits" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qWIlgemp9k) short film series.

[Sean Walsh]

I thought that was the pyramid on Mars where J'onn was buried. But your idea is pretty good too.

Ooh, that's true. I completely forgot that bit.

Never mind. I'm sure we'll see the Hawks again - one way or another - in BLACKEST NIGHT. :wink:

[Go Go]

I'm just on page four and I hate what I read. "A whole %#$@%$ and they all look like you guys?" What the hell kind of comment is that?

I finished reading it. The issue itself doesn't really make up for any previous disappointments. It's still disappointing to me, disappointing in terms of crossovers, disappointing in terms of stories done by Morrison. Not good.

[G. Wayne]

...A story, a GOOD story, needs more than just high concepts and great ideas.

That's the problem with a lot of Morrison's work. He has fantastic ideas, but they frequently just don't translate very well into the -sequential art- form of comic books. Final Crisis is a shining example of this.

[carswell13]

Captain Carrot?
Um......

[DeadXMan]

You know, I heard a rumor that once there was a script for a Marx Brothers film, written by Salvatore Dali. Problem was, it was so damned abstract, as a literary work, it was virtually impossible to comprehend on any conceptual level.

That's what this series reminded me of, but with DC characters.

In some ways, I guess if you want to throw around movie director comparisons, Grant Morrison is the equivalent of David Lynch.

If you don't believe me, behold Lynch's "Rabbits" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qWIlgemp9k) short film series.

confusing, depressing and makes you want to climb the nearest clock tower.

yep that's Morrison.

[carswell13]

http://www3.telus.net/freeloader/wallpapers/CaptainCarrot_KingdomCome_byIngram_1024X768.jpg

Why?

[PatrickG]

Few are happier than I am that FINAL CRISIS brought Barry Allen back to the DCU, but seeing the Flashes' role in the resolution of the FC storyline, I have to wonder: what was so different about this crisis (as opposed to all the previous times the DCU was threatened Post-COIE) that the universe needed to revive Barry to save it? What was so extraordinary about the feat of leading the Black Racer to Darkseid that the other speedsters couldn't have accomplished? If Barry returned at this point in time because he, specifically, was needed, then his contribution should have involved some skill/ability of Barry's that the other speedsters lack. That doesn't seem to have been the case at all.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Grant wanted Barry to be a parallel Barry.

But the sentient universe is not all knowing. It panicked and resurrected Barry because it was afraid.

[Liberty Belle Fan]

So after all of this and what happened to Libra, is there any real reason why Martian Manhunter had to die?

[AugustEngine]

I don't get the "This is confusing and makes no sense." mentality. Don't get me wrong, FC sucked. But it sucked in a straightforward manner. To be fair, after Identity/Infinite Crisis, 52, and Countdown, what else could we expect? A crap train doesn't have a golden caboose.

[mdg1]

Ooh, that's true. I completely forgot that bit.

Never mind. I'm sure we'll see the Hawks again - one way or another - in BLACKEST NIGHT. :wink:

Isn't Hawkman in the Blackest Night issue of JSA?

[chapattack]

Any man who can make Captain Carrot and the Zoo Crew work in the same story as Darksied should be hailed for the story telling genius he is...

It isn't about telling any one person's story - its about finding a way for all the stories work together - without bias - that betrays none of us...

Morrison - despite making final crisis a sequel to animal man - makes this happen...

Thay is why he is greatest writer comics have EVER know.

Long live the Morrison.

[rev sully]

wow...

I like it

[BigTopTony]

Any man who can make Captain Carrot and the Zoo Crew work in the same story as Darksied should be hailed for the story telling genius he is...

It isn't about telling any one person's story - its about finding a way for all the stories work together - without bias - that betrays none of us...

Morrison - despite making final crisis a sequel to animal man - makes this happen...

Thay is why he is greatest writer comics have EVER know.

Long live the Morrison.

I understand the complaints, I accept others hate it, but I couldn't agree with each and every sentence above.

There is Grant Morrison and then there is everyone else.

[chapattack]

OK - I'm kinda drunk and may not be thinking that straight - but has anyone else even mentioned Captain Carrot since 1987/87? I think not..
Morrison is on the same tip with british comics that he hit with Zenith bk 3 - but now with yank comics... merryman and captain carrot... who else could have placed them inside the biggest cross over in years? The least remembered and most forgotten have a power all their own...
Pretty fecking cool...

[chapattack]

I understand the complaints, I accept others hate it, but I couldn't agree with each and every sentence above.

There is Grant Morrison and then there is everyone else.

I could not have hoped to put it better.

[rev sully]

I don't get the "This is confusing and makes no sense." mentality. Don't get me wrong, FC sucked. But it sucked in a straightforward manner. To be fair, after Identity/Infinite Crisis, 52, and Countdown, what else could we expect? A crap train doesn't have a golden caboose.

This is funny.

[lead sharp]

I think Morrison is in danger of blowing his own head off if his ego gets any bigger.

7 issues? Anyone who doesn't get the significance should stop reading the stuff he writes.

There's something just not right about Final Crises and I think I know (from my point of view) what it is.

Another writer in a months time can completely ignore, re-write or re-create what happened in the last 28 pages.

The events in FC haven't been seen in any other comic to the best of my knowledge (Batman's 'death' being a prime example). It's like Grants not the kid who thought up the best games to play in the school yard anymore, now he's the kid playing happily in the sandpit by himself. I'm not saying it's a bad story, just after the history of the DCU a pretty irrelevant one.

Oh and yet again for those with impaired thinking Animal Man, The Invisibles and The Doom Patrol sit neatly on my shelves well read and treasured.

[DarKye]

OK - I'm kinda drunk and may not be thinking that straight - but has anyone else even mentioned Captain Carrot since 1987/87? I think not..

He had a mini in 2007, Captain Carrot and the Final Ark! telling their adventures in the new Multiverse. Probably as setup for this. :tongue:

[Beorn]

I liked most of it. I still have a few things that need to be explained, but overall Final Crisis rocked.

[rev sully]

So by showing Superman the Miracle Machine...Brainiac-5 caused a paradox? Wow...we won't know this one for three more months, eh?
Legion of 3 Worlds got three issues left!!!

[chapattack]

He had a mini in 2007, Captain Carrot and the Final Ark! telling their adventures in the new Multiverse. Probably as setup for this. :tongue:

Who wrote it? Anyone know?

[Doug Strange]

And I love me some Kirby's Fourth World. I just re-read the Olsen trades.

But you know what? It's like Dixieland Jazz. It only works as a look at history. Nobody lives it anymore. Only nerds still play Dixieland, and only nerds (like Erik Larsen) try to do Kirby-stlye comics in the 21st century.
I would argue that "Kirby-style" entails more than just the exclamation points I mentioned, or energy dots, or anything Erik Larsen's ever done. And I'd also say it's perfectly capable of being translated into a 21C aesthetic, and has been fairly well a few different places. Most notably in Grant's own paean, 7 Soldiers. That thing is the Kirby-est stuff in decades. And not at all nerdy.

(Well, ok, a little. But that's fun.)

With Final Crisis, one of the greatest comic book writers of the 90s turned into a middle-aged nerd trying to make his readers like comics from his own personal "golden age" of comics when he was 14.

And that shouldn't be DC, that's Image comics.
I'm not getting where you're coming from. I feel this work captures the spirit of all eras of the DCU. Including the future.

(Pretty sure I've read that Morrison had never read the original 4th World stuff until a few years ago, incidentally. So if he's glorifying that stuff, it's more of a conscious choice than just a wishful regression to adolescence.)

[David O Burcham]

Only Grant Morrison could somehow work Captain Carrot into Final Crisis.

Sadly, it was the only thing in this entire series that made me care.

[DarKye]

Who wrote it? Anyone know?

I believe it was Bill Morrison, with art by Scott Shaw. I'm pretty sure of Shaw at least, he came over to the forums many times.

[Doug Strange]

Who wrote it? Anyone know?
Nooooo, don't invoke him!

[Doug Strange]

Sadly, it was the only thing in this entire series that made me care.
Wow, really? It was seven issues long. Why on earth did you buy past the first one?

Seriously...I don't know what's worse...buying comics you hate or buying comics you don't even CARE about. Weird.

[Yodazone]

What exactly happened to Cap. Carrot? He reverted back to cartoon form since the last mini series?

PCs too slow to search through all the pages again....

[spidervenom]

ok, what exactly was the chronology for this issue. I'm a little put back.

[liminal_lad]

lol.

You are trying way too hard.

Marvel is Spielberg, while DC is Kafka with their ideas, but, Boll with their execution.

I thought that was brilliant, actually.

[rev sully]

PS...the Black Lightning against the Red Skies in the "Brown" Superman/Nu-Nubia scenes had to be Ironic.

The ONLY time that happens...wow. It's a creepy effect to boot...

The Terminal Point...Where the Universe Ends...

But the scene with the heroes dragging Earth-Zero (aka New Earth) out of the Abyss was AWESOME!!!

[Doug Strange]

Who wrote it? Anyone know?

Nooooo, don't invoke him!

I believe it was Bill Morrison, with art by Scott Shaw. I'm pretty sure of Shaw at least, he came over to the forums many times.

Apologies to Bill Morrison, then. I was thinking of the artist.

[koshunter]

Just read it. Loved the issue and loved the series as a whole. Not really understanding the complains about it being super confusing, especially after my second read.

There's only one thing that I'm not to sure about. Is Anthro still in the past or is he on the alternate earth (as shown in FC #1). If Batman is there when he dies, is he stuck in a different time or different earth?

[rev sully]

KELSON VIBBER!!! OK!!!

Did Wally just vibrate through Darkseid successfully? Because Darkseid didn't explode...

Cuz this will be disputed but Wally ALWAYS vibrated through things and that thing would explode.
I do not remember this being written about. There's on instance of Wally's vibrating successfully but that was in an issue of JLA CLASSIFED a few years back...but that's not MESSNER-LOEB/WAID/MORRISON/JOHNS Wally story...those are the people that count right (such a ANNUAL #1 Wally killing with the "dim-muk" but iDigress...)

[Paul McEnery]

I would argue that "Kirby-style" entails more than just the exclamation points I mentioned, or energy dots, or anything Erik Larsen's ever done. And I'd also say it's perfectly capable of being translated into a 21C aesthetic, and has been fairly well a few different places. Most notably in Grant's own paean, 7 Soldiers. That thing is the Kirby-est stuff in decades. And not at all nerdy.

(Well, ok, a little. But that's fun.)


I'm not getting where you're coming from. I feel this work captures the spirit of all eras of the DCU. Including the future.

(Pretty sure I've read that Morrison had never read the original 4th World stuff until a few years ago, incidentally. So if he's glorifying that stuff, it's more of a conscious choice than just a wishful regression to adolescence.)

Indeed. Says as much in the intro to the Omnibus. He's of an age with me, where Kirby's output seemed hopelessly corny -- because we'd just grown into our self-conscious teen years.

[rev sully]

Just read it. Loved the issue and loved the series as a whole. Not really understanding the complains about it being super confusing, especially after my second read.

There's only one thing that I'm not to sure about. Is Anthro still in the past or is he on the alternate earth (as shown in FC #1). If Batman is there when he dies, is he stuck in a different time or different earth?

Well it worked in JLA The Obsidian Age...When Stuck in the Past...Leave a Cave Painting as an S.O.S. for an Extract. That explains the Sliver cover of #1

[Paul McEnery]

Sadly, it was the only thing in this entire series that made me care.

You're right. That is sad. :tongue:

[Will.S]

While I liked a good deal of the book's moments with the characters such as the Flashes, the GL's, the multiverse Supermen, the direness of the situation, Wonder Woman and Frankenstein and etc., the way it was told was too messy for my tastes.

I also think that the Mandrakk stuff wouldn't have made a whole lot of sense for the people who had not read Superman Beyond (which I happened to buy and enjoy but was also a little too broad in concepts) and I think this event fails as a book that can be read by itself. However taken together in the timeline Morrison put together it does read well together.

Huge props to Doug Mahnke for illustrating the last bits of #7 and this issue on top of both Superman Beyond issues but what annoys me is that the book's art looks and feels very rushed with its use of multiple inkers and colorists. Aside from Mahnke's art, nothing looks quite uniform or consistent and the inking/coloring really made Mahnke's art look very different in a couple of pages, the only saving grace being the pages that Alex Sinclair colored which looked great.

The whole event does necessitate quite a couple of read through's to get every nuance and message that Morrison is putting on the page which is really cool to have as a reading experience. But this was far from the most accessible and the most coherent event that I've read so far and by shifting some very important material to the tie ins, Final Crisis series feels incomplete without them, even as it comes to a close.

I am interested in seeing how the New Gods stuff is going to be picked up again as well as the GPA with the Question and the multiverse stuff but I don't trust Dan Didio to really do anything good with it so I have a feeling that it'll be bungled with.

FC #8 gets a 7.9/10 for me with the whole event being 8-8.5/10

[Corrina]

Actually, I believe I remember that being a review of Finnegans Wake.

Though it also sounds like what Feynman said about quantum physics.

But I'd be extremely surprised if it were a review of Portrait, which is very very straightforward.

You could be right, Paul. It was a few years ago, and my memory could have mixed them up. For those interested, some years back, the NY Times book review had a special section that listed the original reviews of books that later became classics. Fascinating to see that some were known right as away as genius and some were dismissed and then appreciated later. Frex, it seems to me that Morrison's Animal Man was recognized as a classic when it was being published, while some other series took time. I'm pretty sure that DC didn't imagine an Absolute Edition of New Frontier at the time it was published.

And I apologize for the tangent. Back to your regularly scheduled Final Crisis #7 discussion.

[James Conniff]

....Meh...at least Morrison touched on the Batman plot again and leaves us wondering when he will return. That's all I was really here for.

Morrison certainly tried out some new stuff with this series but it didn't resonate with me as a reader at all. "Channel Zapping" isn't how I want to read my comics. I want to spend a minute with them(and each story beat) so I can actually care about what is happening around them, this may be enjoyed by a great many people but I wasn't one of them.

[Seraku]

I enjoyed it a lot, didn't much care for the out of ordered way it was told but I enjoyed it and the event as a whole.

[rev sully]

Who wrote it? Anyone know?

RTFM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTFM) for now on, mate...^_^ CHEERS!

[Will.S]

Ok so now that the New Gods have been essentially rebooted/reborn into the 5th world, who here thinks that DC is going to royally f**k that up too?

It's disappointing that all we saw of some of them were just their backs although some looked kind of the same like Lightray and Barda. Hopefully Didio doesn't touch that stuff until they have a rock solid plan with a good writer/artist combo.

[DeadXMan]

Ok so now that the New Gods have been essentially rebooted/reborn into the 5th world, who here thinks that DC is going to royally f**k that up too?

It's disappointing that all we saw of some of them were just their backs although some looked kind of the same like Lightray and Barda. Hopefully Didio doesn't touch that stuff until they have a rock solid plan with a good writer/artist combo.

and there in lies the flaw with that plan.


anyone else disapointed they showed Batman at the end?

[Will.S]

and there in lies the flaw with that plan.


anyone else disapointed they showed Batman at the end?
I was expecting something entirely different for Batman but it was an interesting place to leave him.

[vitruvian]

Darkseid has the ALE infected attack Superman as he readies the God gun that Batman shot him with to kill Superman. That's when the Flash's shows up with the Black Racer hot on their tails and they run through Darkseid, sparing Superman.


One correction - Darkseid's dialogue indicates that he is readying the god gun to kill Orion, not Superman. Remember, they established back in 1 and 2 that the bullet that killed Orion traveled backwards in time.

[Sean Whitmore]

anyone else disapointed they showed Batman at the end?

The people who thought he was really dead, I'd imagine.


SEAN

[Kevinroc]

The people who thought he was really dead, I'd imagine.


SEAN

Did people seriously think Batman was going to stay dead for anything that even resembled a length of time? Two weeks is short even by comic standards, I admit, but did anybody really think this would last for some length of time?

[Tabernac]

I just read the last 5 pages of this board, it is the best thing I've read since Green Lantern 37 when I woke up. I rather enjoyed this series, no it wasn't the greatest story to bless the glossy pages that we all love so much. There a good number of Pro-Marvel people, Pro-Crisis people, Anti-Grant people, and Anti-other stuff people, you all make my terrible flu that much less bad which makes me laugh.

[jade_nova]

I have a question about two of the "Supermen" the blonde in the yellow is Apollo from the Authority and the one in the red and white is Mr. Majestic, correct? Aren't they both from the same Earth?

[Sean Whitmore]

I have a question about two of the "Supermen" the blonde in the yellow is Apollo from the Authority and the one in the red and white is Mr. Majestic, correct? Aren't they both from the same Earth?

Cripes, I didn't even see Apollo the first time.

These days I don't know what's what with Wildstorm, but yeah, last I remember they're from the same Earth.


SEAN

[DeadXMan]

Did people seriously think Batman was going to stay dead for anything that even resembled a length of time? Two weeks is short even by comic standards, I admit, but did anybody really think this would last for some length of time?

I was thinking at least a year after Bftc.

turns out he was resurrected by Ras al ghoul, and planted to bring down Gotham from with in. Only to fight it and sacrifice himself in order to stop Ras. and leaving a message that ______ is a good choice to continue the fight.

yes, I'm borrowing from g1 season 3, but it works.

[jade_nova]

One correction - Darkseid's dialogue indicates that he is readying the god gun to kill Orion, not Superman. Remember, they established back in 1 and 2 that the bullet that killed Orion traveled backwards in time.

Couldn't he of done both killed two people with one bullet?

[Will.S]

I have a question about two of the "Supermen" the blonde in the yellow is Apollo from the Authority and the one in the red and white is Mr. Majestic, correct? Aren't they both from the same Earth?
Yeah I'm the same as Sean.

I guess since they're both Wildstorm they're both from the same earth or they merged somehow but I think initially the Wildcats and Authority stuff was separate universes.

[rev sully]

I have a question about two of the "Supermen" the blonde in the yellow is Apollo from the Authority and the one in the red and white is Mr. Majestic, correct? Aren't they both from the same Earth?

You might get the First No-Prize!

But did anyone notice that the Montior from Earth-31 (Ogama) became the host for Mandraak and was killed. As was Earth-43's Zillo Valla...who wsa already a vampire because she was "from" the Batman Vampire universe...
But the former of this...
Earth-31..
was the Multivese Miller "Dark Knight" Universe...Morrison truly killed the Dark Knight...long live Batman!

[Arksy]

Despite how much i hated Morrison's X-men work. When Morrison leaves a title for a while, NO ONE EVER seems to come anywhere near the amount of stuff that Morrison leaves that could be further developed into interesting meaningful stories. The potential morrison leaves is always just vast. This is no exception, only difference between this and his X-men work, in my humble oppinion is that this is definitely one of the best events i've ever read.

Morrison is SOOO RIGHT you know, when he said that Comics should stop being film scripts and start actually being comic books and i love that he said that he was trying to be very 'right hemisphere' in a world dominated by 'left hemisphere' books. Props for being very origional and creative.

I give final crisis 9.5/10 only taking half a point off for being fairly inaccessible to new readers, but this is the first fo the greater DCU that i've read and i managed just fine, everyone else should be able to as well.

[ultramandingo]

............wow whada mess - fricking amazing mess - for some reson one of the 1st dcs i ever read was dc showcase #100 - staring every hero that had been in showcase unitll then = anthro , atom , metal men , merryman , sea devils , lois lane ect . doing some thing or other - i had little idea who or what was going on but it was still cool - same deal with FC - 30 nerdy years later

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/4628/sc100nd8.jpg (http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sc100nd8.jpg)
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/sc100nd8.jpg/1/w300.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img403/sc100nd8.jpg/1/)

[DeadXMan]

Despite how much i hated Morrison's X-men work. When Morrison leaves a title for a while, NO ONE EVER seems to come anywhere near the amount of stuff that Morrison leaves that could be further developed into interesting meaningful stories. The potential morrison leaves is always just vast. This is no exception, only difference between this and his X-men work, in my humble oppinion is that this is definitely one of the best events i've ever read.

Morrison is SOOO RIGHT you know, when he said that Comics should stop being film scripts and start actually being comic books and i love that he said that he was trying to be very 'right hemisphere' in a world dominated by 'left hemisphere' books. Props for being very origional and creative.

I give final crisis 9.5/10 only taking half a point off for being fairly inaccessible to new readers, but this is the first fo the greater DCU that i've read and i managed just fine, everyone else should be able to as well.

cause it soo stuipd they recon it away

[The Batman]

RE: Apollo and Mr. Majestic (is he just Majestic again?)

I'm not too surprised on this. Superman's just so awesome that sometimes one doppleganger per universe just isn't enough.

[Doug Strange]

cause it soo stuipd they recon it away
Ugh. How old are you?

[Spiffy]

Bizarro Spiffy am love this very much! Bizarro Spiffy go out and buy plenty extra copies! Final Crisis am perfectly written!

[mdg1]

Yeah I'm the same as Sean.

I guess since they're both Wildstorm they're both from the same earth or they merged somehow but I think initially the Wildcats and Authority stuff was separate universes.

Then again, who's to say they could only get one per universe?

[Will.S]

Then again, who's to say they could only get one per universe?
I suppose that's a good point.

[drupgyu]

I don't get the "This is confusing and makes no sense." mentality. Don't get me wrong, FC sucked. But it sucked in a straightforward manner. To be fair, after Identity/Infinite Crisis, 52, and Countdown, what else could we expect? A crap train doesn't have a golden caboose.

That's hilarious!

(and can certainly apply also to House of M, Secret Invasion, World War Hulk and Civil War)

All the best stories right now with the two biggest companies are smaller self-contained stories I think.

I think I have event fatigue...

[wolvie616]

so batman is alive, but in the past? and battle for the cowl is about the new present batman?:confused:

[ZeoVGM]

Absolutely terrible, but at least it's finally over.

It almost makes me physically ill to read stuff like this in a CBR review: " If this is to be the final Crisis, then it should be grander than those that came before, too epic to be described completely, that it must be told not just in the comic, but in the readers’ imaginations as well. All of the key points are here, but the reader must bring something to the table as well"

Yeah, uh no. That's called an excuse. We get what he's doing. But that doesn't make it a good book. Just ridiculous reasoning.

One of the worst event comics I've ever read.

[James Conniff]

and there in lies the flaw with that plan.


anyone else disapointed they showed Batman at the end?

Not as disappointed as I was when I got 2/3rds of the way through the issue and found I had to be reading Superman Beyond to fully understand how this series wrapped up.

I'm not disappointed Morison showed us where he was, I'm actually quite happy with where he has been placed, even If I still don't like how he got there.

[Spiffy]

Did I miss the part where Wonder Woman got cured? Was it just because Darkseid's most recent body died? That part didn't really track for me.

[wolvie616]

Did I miss the part where Wonder Woman got cured? Was it just because Darkseid's most recent body died? That part didn't really track for me.

that was my other question

this is actually the first time a series has stumped me

i even understood pirates of the carribean!:biggrin:

[Joe Rice]

I was honestly moved by some scenes from this. Beautiful comic!

[Alex Smith]

Ya, I thought this issue was absolutely excellent. They hit this one out of the park. I'm not surprised they balked on the Batman thing, but it worked out nicely. I liked the Darth Vader-esque shadow with the mask. Very nice.

Worked out well coming out directly after Superman Beyond #2.

[Choppa]

I just read it. Wtf??

I guess I'll have to re-read it again very slowly and maybe i'll understand a little of it.

Oh, so why and how did Barry come back from wherever he was?

[Kid Omega]

All the Barry stuff was pretty clearly explained.

Hell, everything in the book was pretty clearly explained. It's only confusing if you let it be, maybe?

I don't know the answer to the "it makes no sense" complaint. It was pretty dang clear as far as my reading....

[wolvie616]

All the Barry stuff was pretty clearly explained.

Hell, everything in the book was pretty clearly explained. It's only confusing if you let it be, maybe?

I don't know the answer to the "it makes no sense" complaint. It was pretty dang clear as far as my reading....


can you explain to me please if batman is stuck in the past or something?

[40footwolf]

Goddamnit, what was the POINT of all that?

Nothing changed! Nothing happened! Batman died, Hawkman died(big effing deal, his whole thing is that he comes back), Green Arrow and Black Canary died I think...and then everyone moved to Earth 51. And the New New Gods rose out of the ground...looking identical to the old New Gods.

And we know about the multiverse now. Who cares?!?

Nothing changed. Nothing happened.

I ate up every single issue of Final Crisis...until this one. Until this last, pointless endgame that had no effect on anything.

I am CRUSHED.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Goddamnit, what was the POINT of all that?

Nothing changed! Nothing happened! Batman died, Hawkman died(big effing deal, his whole thing is that he comes back), Green Arrow and Black Canary died I think...and then everyone moved to Earth 51. And the New New Gods rose out of the ground...looking identical to the old New Gods.

And we know about the multiverse now. Who cares?!?

Nothing changed. Nothing happened.

I ate up every single issue of Final Crisis...until this one. Until this last, pointless endgame that had no effect on anything.

I am CRUSHED.


We haven't seen what the New Gods currently look like. Those were just their spirits (which of course look identical).

Just pointing out...

[Kid Omega]

can you explain to me please if batman is stuck in the past or something?

It would seem that way...

The Omega Beams are an unpredictable element.

Also, look at the striped cover to Final Crisis #1

[DeadXMan]

Yet childish enough to feel personally insulted by it?


SEAN

I know you are, but what am I ?:tongue:

[Kid Omega]

Goddamnit, what was the POINT of all that?

Nothing changed! Nothing happened! Batman died, Hawkman died(big effing deal, his whole thing is that he comes back), Green Arrow and Black Canary died I think...and then everyone moved to Earth 51. And the New New Gods rose out of the ground...looking identical to the old New Gods.

And we know about the multiverse now. Who cares?!?

Nothing changed. Nothing happened.

I ate up every single issue of Final Crisis...until this one. Until this last, pointless endgame that had no effect on anything.

I am CRUSHED.

The point was to read a good story.

Why does something need to "change"?

How is that a criteria for quality fiction?

[Sean Whitmore]

It would seem that way...

The Omega Beams are an unpredictable element.

I'm leaning towards he's in another reality/world, just because it seems weird that Lois' rocket would end up in their Earth's own past.


SEAN

[Sean Whitmore]

I know you are, but what am I ?:tongue:

Oh, that's it, I'm telling the teacher.


SEAN

[Kid Omega]

I'm leaning towards he's in another reality/world, just because it seems weird that Lois' rocket would end up in their Earth's own past.


SEAN

Well, he's on Anthro's world, yes?

He's in some sort of caveman world, either way. IT'S NOT IMPORTANT AT THIS JUNCTURE.

[wolvie616]

I'm leaning towards he's in another reality/world, just because it seems weird that Lois' rocket would end up in their Earth's own past.


SEAN

oh well dick grayson/wayne, tim drake/wayne, jason todd/wayne?, and damian wayne

BATTLE
FOR
THE
COWL!

[ZeoVGM]

The point was to read a good story.

Then where was it?

[Sean Whitmore]

Well, he's on Anthro's world, yes?

He's in some sort of caveman world, either way. IT'S NOT IMPORTANT AT THIS JUNCTURE.

Of course it isn't, but is speculating hurting anything?


SEAN